Micro 134 (F11) (Game Over!)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

[Zachrulez]

2nd vote count of day 2:

Cogito Ergo Sum - 2 (Dazed and Confused, Syryana)
Syryana - 2 (Sotty7, FourTrouble)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Cogito Ergo Sum)
JasonT1981 - 1 (Nachomamma8)

Not Voting: (JasonT1981)

With 7 alive it's 4 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-03-18 20:00:00)

[Dazed and Confused]

No, I cut myself off before that happened.

I think whatever your original joke was supposed to be flew over my head.

[jasonT1981]

Also, did it occur to you that

other

people might not want to lynch him depending on his claim?

This is an actual serious question, not just rhetorical whining.

jason, your turn: what do you think of CES? (You

sort

of ninja'd me, but I'd like more of a concrete answer. Do you suspect CES, and

why

?) What do you think we should do with CES? Policy lynch him?

Also, I'll look for quotes when I have more time, but I'm pretty sure the first negative thing Sotty said about you was that you were lurking.

At best, very opertunistic - no claim, and a fast L-1,Hammer situation. The hammer came right in the very next game post after Four Trouble put him at L-1. (There was a mod VC between) If anything. Fourtrouble had a good bit of interaction/comments on Josh, but 0 on Whiskers...

At worst it is scum hammering, thinking they are hammering an unclaimed town who many found scummy and got shit luck when the cop flip came.

Also, he says Sotty/Jason scum team makes sense to him, but his vote is on someone totally different.. Nacho, the very person he was lining up for a lynch with his hammer.

I am only holding off a vote, because it will put him at L-1 less than 24 hours after game begun. I see no town reasoning in CES actions both yesterday leading up to the hammer, and today with calling a possible Sotty/Jason team, yet have his vote on Nacho.

[jasonT1981]

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

[jasonT1981]

this is more my own thoughts, but given the flip, we can deduce the following setups are the only ones in play now.

1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Sane Doctor, 5 Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies

[jasonT1981]

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

Also, can you explain why if the scum team makes sense, your vote is elsewhere?

[Dazed and Confused]

UNVOTE: CES

[Dazed and Confused]

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

Considering

one? What's stopping you?

(Also, "push" is an odd choice of words.)

I see no town reasoning in CES actions both yesterday leading up to the hammer

Ah, so it's not just the hammer? It's stuff CES has done before the hammer?

And Nacho, step it up. I know you're capable of being very readable (well, granted, I think I've suspected you in every game I've played with you) and protown when you give a shit. But right now, I'm second-guessing everyone alive. You've basically done nothing to actually make me think that you're town beyond a couple of surface reasonable comments. Why were you posting in virtually every game but this one while Whiskers was being wagoned?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Also, he says Sotty/Jason scum team makes sense to him, but his vote is on someone totally different.. Nacho, the very person he was lining up for a lynch with his hammer.

Sotty/you is worth exploring, certainly; that doesn't mean I should vote for either of you. Do you think I was trying to line up lynch while quickhammering as scum?

[Dazed and Confused]

This head (Empire) will be V/LA until the weekend due to a really awful exam I have on Thursday.

Random note: Should probably look over FT again since I feel like I've been underestimating him + the Sixty kill makes sense coming from scum-him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

You're not bothered by Sotty calling you scum in her last post Yesterday and calling you 90% town Today? The interaction between you and Sotty has been a bit weird and I'm definitely missing something if the two of you are town (and I don't really think you have different alignments).

[FourTrouble]

I get the feeling he skipped over a lot. And if he did read everything, he's clearly not putting any effort into finding scum, just going for an easy target with no reasoning whatsoever. Plus it doesn't help your lynch was given approval by Dazed and Confused.

Can you explain how CES is an easy target?

He quickly hammered Whiskers + Dazed and Confused was voting him. I expect more depth from people replacing into a game and Syryana's vote fell way short of the mark. It doesn't help that I didn't like Rach yesterday but I'm trying to be unbiased here and just taking Syryana alone her move don't sit right with me.

[jasonT1981]

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

You're not bothered by Sotty calling you scum in her last post Yesterday and calling you 90% town Today? The interaction between you and Sotty has been a bit weird and I'm definitely missing something if the two of you are town (and I don't really think you have different alignments).

I've played with Sotty too many times to care. I am used to Sotty finding it hard to get an accurate read on me and in a lot of games changes from scum to town and vice versa on me. I don't find it troubling. Her scum read on me was just for activity levels being low.

[FourTrouble]

The thought process in Syryana's 383 is superficial, too.

[Sotty7]

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when night came in that I had Jason read wrong. I need to double check something about his scum meta but other than that there is nothing to really elborate. If you find him scummy for lack of posting I suggest you look though all of his games right now. If there are other reasons, lay them out and I'll listen but the one scummy thing I have heard is his lynch-1 vote on Sixty and that's still not scummy for me. So if it is anything else then lay it out.

More when I have eaten.

[Sotty7]

Vote: jasonT1981

Sotty-Jason. I don't think CES is scum because CESscum's biggest fight this game is going to be against paranoia. Quickhammering a cop or risking quickhammering a cop makes no sense for CES if he's trying to avoid paranoia.

Me and Jason because I attach myself to my scum buddies like this? No really, what's the rationale behind this?

Sotty-Jason makes a surprising amount of sense. You're going to have to elaborate on that town read, Sotty.

This is p.scummy though. The wind starts to turn and you want to blend in. Why does it make sense?

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

Also, can you explain why if the scum team makes sense, your vote is elsewhere?

To be fair, I put my vote on you when you gave some poorly worded Whiskers hate. That's what pushed me over the edge.

UNVOTE: CES

Plz

You're not bothered by Sotty calling you scum in her last post Yesterday and calling you 90% town Today? The interaction between you and Sotty has been a bit weird and I'm definitely missing something if the two of you are town (and I don't really think you have different alignments).

You are missing something. It starts with "ongoing" and ends with "games"

The thought process in Syryana's 383 is superficial, too.

Nooooo. You're going to have to detail why you think that because I almost fell in love.

Unvote

Jason... We need to team up on someone, I'm thinking CES? His sniffing around our love makes me extremely cautious. Did you see he waited until several others made comments before floating anything our way. I don't like.

I forgot that I have Nacho as town because of him talking me down from Rach yesterday. I think I have too many townies in my POE. I'll review tomorrow.

Vote: CES

[Dazed and Confused]

Sotty, I'll talk more about CES in a bit, but what do you think of this post? How does it fit into your theory about CES's stance on you and jason?

Sotty's town read of Jason muddies the waters quite a bit w.r.t what the scum team is (Syryana's last post isn't bad either), but it only makes this vote easier:

Vote: Nacho

Also, you should remove your vote for now if you want jason to follow you. He can't cast the L-1 vote!

[Nachomamma8]

No, I cut myself off before that happened.

I think whatever your original joke was supposed to be flew over my head.

Better that way, I suppose.

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

Why do you think CES and FT are scum outside of the hammer and L-1? Do you think they are scum together?

CES Can you explain what makes sense about Jason/Sotty scum team, given Sotty's only real thoughts of me being scum was due to activity being low.. and not the way you are blowing it out. Most of the time she commented on my actual game play.. she saw town in it... her only thoughts of jason-scum was on lack of activity.

This doesn't really do anything to make a jason/sotty scumteam less likely.

And Nacho, step it up. I know you're capable of being very readable (well, granted, I think I've suspected you in every game I've played with you) and protown when you give a shit. But right now, I'm second-guessing everyone alive. You've basically done nothing to actually make me think that you're town beyond a couple of surface reasonable comments. Why were you posting in virtually every game but this one while Whiskers was being wagoned?

I was posting in a few other games while Whiskers was being wagonned because that's right after I took a V/LA, and focus in catching up in games was in places where I was needed more.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks when night came in that I had Jason read wrong. I need to double check something about his scum meta but other than that there is nothing to really elborate. If you find him scummy for lack of posting I suggest you look though all of his games right now. If there are other reasons, lay them out and I'll listen but the one scummy thing I have heard is his lynch-1 vote on Sixty and that's still not scummy for me. So if it is anything else then lay it out.

it's not that he's lurking; it's what he does when he comes around.

Me and Jason because I attach myself to my scum buddies like this? No really, what's the rationale behind this?

you protect him for one more day by taking a firm stance instead of waffling and trying to distance or just bussing him. it's much more natural, and while it would suck if he got lynched first and you were tied to him, you have plenty of time to defend since you know there isn't a cop in the setup.

[Nachomamma8]

I know you're capable of being very readable (well, granted, I think I've suspected you in every game I've played with you) and protown when you give a shit.

there's more than one way to make yourself readable.
my favorite way is by lynching scum.

[FourTrouble]

Sotty, please tell me you didn’t actually like 383. Cause the post I read has no depth to it whatsoever. The main point boils down to the asking, why isn’t CES dead? Which completely ignores the fact that CES hammered Whiskers. The question, why isn’t CES dead, is as stupid a fucking question as it gets, and anyone pushing that as a reason to lynch him is pushing a non-starter of an argument. Flip the tables, assume CES is town for a second, and now ask the more reasonable question: if CES is town, would scum kill him after his quick hammer? The answer here seems pretty obvious. Which tells me Syryana has not, for even a second, considered the possibility that CES is town. And I dunno about you but that seems like the kind of thing scum do, not town. At least I know I always try to look at things from both angles.

The rest of 383 is not much better. CES did a lot more than Syryana gives him credit for, and most definitely a lot more than "nothing," which is what Syryana thinks he did. And the idea that CES is policy lynch material is laughable. I can understand Dazed and Confused, they're paranoid. But Syryana is trying to justify the paranoia through shitty logic and that's a problem for me. When push comes to shove, it feels like he's just sheeping Dazed and Confused + going after an easy target.

The points about me are also terrible. I mean, even if CES is scum, I still don't see how we're connected or how it makes any sense to say we're partners. And most of Syryana's points about me are just really dumb. Like calling me scummy because I questioned my initial impression of Sixty. Or saying I called you town to sheep you when in context you were technically following my lead on Rach. 383 is just not well thought out at all. It comes across as a superficial attack on both CES and myself.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, I'll talk more about CES in a bit, but what do you think of this post? How does it fit into your theory about CES's stance on you and jason?

Sotty's town read of Jason muddies the waters quite a bit w.r.t what the scum team is (Syryana's last post isn't bad either), but it only makes this vote easier:

Vote: Nacho

I'd actually like you to talk more about him now, why did you unvote? This vote was him falling back into his comfort zone, all he did yesterday was vote for Nacho and hammer Whiskers. He suddenly found me and Jason "interesting" after you and nacho both decided we were worth exploring. Doesn't feeling the slight bit natural at all.

Also, you should remove your vote for now if you want jason to follow you. He can't cast the L-1 vote!

Why not? But fine, you need to explain your position a bit more but I will give a little to get a little.

Unvote

it's not that he's lurking; it's what he does when he comes around.

Examples?

you protect him for one more day by taking a firm stance instead of waffling and trying to distance or just bussing him. it's much more natural, and while it would suck if he got lynched first and you were tied to him, you have plenty of time to defend since you know there isn't a cop in the setup.

This is pretty crap but okay.

Four, you may not agree with post 383 but calling it superficial and dumb is really not the way to go about it. The post was an extremely detailed break down of her thought process of why you and CES are the scum. Break down the points of why you aren't by all means. But you will not win any points from me by trying to discredit the player. It just sets my heckles off. I get your counter points, but I like what she had to say about CES but I wasn't quite so much on board when she spoke about you.

[Nachomamma8]

Examples?

So, after a re-read... I am still not sure wtf is going on. Josh and Nacho for scum though. Both mostly gut, but Josh jump on me was scummy as fuck.

The reread makes it seem like he put in more effort than he did, not the smallest bit of new information was weird.

Can we just cut though the crap and get your scum reads and reasons for why? That would be most excellent.

this, too much talk of past games and meta is really putting me off!

That's not what you were saying at all, and seems like he was agreeing with you just to agree.

Very tempted to vote Whiskers right now, josh was meh, whiskers done little to convince me that kitty is a soft kitty....

tosses unneeded support onto the wagon, does nothing else

I also am considering a push at fourtrouble for his L-1 vote.

probing for support of an easy target
no followthrough when no one takes up his offer

This is pretty crap but okay.

How would you handle jason if you were scum together otherwise?

[Sotty7]

I would probably bus him, but grain of salt etc.

I don't think Four is an easy target, look at what happened to Sixty when they tried to push on Four. If anyone is an easy target in this game right now, it's Jason.

[Nachomamma8]

Who do you think is an easier target for jasonscum?