Xenogears Mafia (Game Over)

[Faster Than Light]

Then stop trying to mud sling a slot.

I agree, speculation on PRs is trouble. That's why I hate dealing with claimed PRs, it's a huge can of worms.

Then why bring it up at all if you think it's trouble?

I'm not the one who brought it up. Can's been opened. I'm just doing my part in putting a lid on it.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

@AJ

: I really like this post. It makes sense if I'm reading it correctly. However, I'm confused about a few things;

What the fuck does a traitor do? (Wiki says they can't do any QT chat/make kills, but is there something I'm missing?)
Does the scum team know if they have a traitor? The way you're writing about it makes it seem like they don't, but the wiki says sometimes the scum-team does.
What's your basis for saying there must be a traitor? Is it solely based in the fact you've never seen these PRs without a traitor to counterbalance them? How the fuck does a traitor even counterbalance them?
So... Nick's not a traitor, so what does that mean for us now?

The only reason I'd see for scum to keep Muttley alive is that his first shot hit town. It's clear that he wasn't a good judge of who to shoot, from an alignment standpoint. Getting two kills in one night? Seems pretty damn appealing, despite the risks.

Where I'm at right now, I'm really damn hesitant to believe you, AJ. How do I know you're not a 1-shot bulletproof Traitor, and all the crumbs you've had are false-crumbs so you could claim BP at this moment? This whole traitor thing out of nowhere feels out of left-field, because I'm not seeing much reason for you to figure that there's a traitor in the game unless you absolutely knew it--what's here doesn't seem like speculation, either. The easiest way I see to know it is if you are actually the traitor. Then again, I don't really know how the fuck that role works, or what a one-shot BP // Multi-shot Vig would entail that'd make you so sure there'd be a traitor in this game.

Does that make sense?

-V

[Faster Than Light]

That second question goes both ways, actually--
Does the scum team know if they have a traitor?
and
Does the traitor know who the scum team is?

EBWOP: you make it seem like the scum team knows they do*, but the traitor and the scum team don't know who each other are, if that makes sense.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

<3

MAFIA WARS SIX

The Return of the Nacho.

NACHOMAMMA8 has returned to
his mafia thread of Xenogears in
an attempt to rescue his
friend Mastin2 from the
clutches of the vile gangster
Tiphane the Death.

Little does Nacho know that the
SOLARIS EMPIRE has secretly
begun planning on a new
series of nightkills even
more powerful than the first
murdered Sound of Silence.

When completed, this ultimate
nightkill will spell certain doom
for the small band of rebels
struggling to restore freedom
to the galaxy...

Jesus, the intro to Return of the Jedi is foreboding as fuck.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

yeah I'm pretty sure ghost is town too

also welcome waynegg another member of the xenoblade cast

look who im hydra-ing with xD



@mala
if you call me scummy i will vote you Dx
but i still <3 you

[Faster Than Light]

@AJ

: I really like this post. It makes sense if I'm reading it correctly. However, I'm confused about a few things;

What the fuck does a traitor do? (Wiki says they can't do any QT chat/make kills, but is there something I'm missing?)
Does the scum team know if they have a traitor? The way you're writing about it makes it seem like they don't, but the wiki says sometimes the scum-team does.
What's your basis for saying there must be a traitor? Is it solely based in the fact you've never seen these PRs without a traitor to counterbalance them? How the fuck does a traitor even counterbalance them?
So... Nick's not a traitor, so what does that mean for us now?

The only reason I'd see for scum to keep Muttley alive is that his first shot hit town. It's clear that he wasn't a good judge of who to shoot, from an alignment standpoint. Getting two kills in one night? Seems pretty damn appealing, despite the risks.

Where I'm at right now, I'm really damn hesitant to believe you, AJ. How do I know you're not a 1-shot bulletproof Traitor, and all the crumbs you've had are false-crumbs so you could claim BP at this moment? This whole traitor thing out of nowhere feels out of left-field, because I'm not seeing much reason for you to figure that there's a traitor in the game unless you absolutely knew it--what's here doesn't seem like speculation, either. The easiest way I see to know it is if you are actually the traitor. Then again, I don't really know how the fuck that role works, or what a one-shot BP // Multi-shot Vig would entail that'd make you so sure there'd be a traitor in this game.

Does that make sense?

-V

and I'm totally seconding this by Varsoon, my own hydra head


AJ pls explain we r confused

[Faster Than Light]

I have also seen that catch scum. If they are town they will answer honestly, but if they are scum they will have to check.

Unless the town predecessor was doing a gambit, Varsoon-style

Then the "town replacement" who didnt read gets into lots of trouble


-MS

[Faster Than Light]

Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

yeah I'm pretty sure ghost is town too

also welcome waynegg another member of the xenoblade cast

look who im hydra-ing with xD



@mala
if you call me scummy i will vote you Dx
but i still <3 you

Here's my reads and no guys my claim isn't a "fucking" piece of shit.

BRO I already asked the freaking question. I'm not going into a circle just because you don't understand the answer.

Full reads:

I'm just taking the playerlist because I don't feel like putting them into a set:

1. Aj The Epic - town
2. Andrius - town
4. BROseidon - Conflicted, gut says scum; evidence says town.
5. Desperado - Haven't decided.
6. Faster Than Light - Leaning scum. See Ghostlin read
7. Ghostlin - Town if FTL is scum, scum if FTL is town.
8. Mac - Town
9. mastin2 - Town
10. Nachomamma8 - Still null
12. Malakittens - Town <3
14. notscience, Midori Uzuki - This is a given
16. waynegg - probably town
18. TiphaineDeath - probably town
19. Trust Fund - Town
20. dopog - trustin' of Mastin's read on Venmar - town, gut says not sure. I want to see more from Dopoq.
21. zMuffinMan - Leaning Town

I do want to see things from Dopoq so if we could hold before we hammer me to see if he gets a few posts in that would be great.

</3 mala drew a scum role


======[]

Vote mala

gonna read 2 pages

[Faster Than Light]

oh yeah so mala hammered

what a ninja

[Faster Than Light]

*mac


also pagetop

[Faster Than Light]

again, you're late to the party, MS.

mac already hammered

ya i know right? bs

i was also late for the site being down; i didnt even feel it because it was during my night, and then i got a pm saying "oh the site's been down" well no big deal for me

[Faster Than Light]

TD VWNMAR tOWN

no other alterations

nacho i hope you didnt draw a scum role too

</3

[Faster Than Light]

I'm sorry if this is jumping the gun a bit, Metal Sonic, but I've decided we should finally reveal everything.

i would like to hear claims from desperado and FTL. those two are the only two people i want claims from today. possibly Nacho too.

also i have absolutely no idea who mastin was with. someone spell it out for me

Already softed, guess it's time to spell it out.

I am Jesiah Black. My power is a non-consecutive Vanilla Cop. I investigated Nacho on N1, and the result was Vanilla, hence my gambit the other day (if Nacho claimed anything but Vanilla, I'd know he was lying). Last night, I investigated Trust Fund. The result was not Vanilla.

That said, there's way too many fucking claimed and softed PRs for them all to be town.

I think Mastin was onto this pretty early, as evidenced by his 1329. We've gotten two scum PRs so far, too. The remaining scum are either PRs to balance out town's power, or they are Vanilla and some people are lying. Regardless, I think there's scum among the claimed PRs of ours. Here's my current list;

Aj The Epic - Claimed one-shot BP.
Andrius - Claimed Supersaint.
BROseidon - ???
Desperado - ???
Faster Than Light - Claimed VanillaCop.
Ghostlin - Soft claimed ???
Mac - Claimed Neighborizer.

Malakittens - Confirmed Roleblocker/1-shot Redirect

mastin2 - Confirmed Mason/1-shot JK

Nachomamma8 - Claimed Vanilla, my role confirms he's either VT or Goon.

notscience - Confirmed Innocent Child.

Rach Marie - Confirmed Mad Scientist

waynegg - Claimed Vig.
TiphaineDeath - ???
Trust Fund - NOT VANILLA (I think he softed a claim, too)
dopog - Claimed PGO
zMuffinMan - ???

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN, FASTER THAN LIGHT?

Metal Sonic and I have been discussing this because we're really damn confused as to why scum would kill out of the pool of people who are VT/not claimed. This makes us believe that Scum has already claimed their roles long ago and are actively trying to expose and kill other claimed players. The density of claimed PRs is far too damn high for them all to be town. We've already lynched two scum PRs, and given how many PR claims there are, I'm pretty sure that the whole scum team has power roles. Either that or there's town and/or scum lying about having a PR. Regardless, claimed PRs are people I'm most suspicious of right now.

That said, Mac, you asking for me and Nacho to claim is really suspect. Neighborizer? Sounds like a good scum claim to me, especially if your neighbor is just scum with you. Hell, I was a scum neighborizer in Calvin and Hobbes Mafia, so my only real exposure to the role is seeing it as scum. You've been taking a real distanced approach to play all of this game, so, if anything, all of this boils together to make you one of my biggest suspects for D3.

VOTE: Mac

[Faster Than Light]

I be trippin, then.

Well, at the most, I can confirm that you are a PR.

There's plenty of things that could still make Mac's cop-clear not truthful. For instance, if the cop isn't a cop, or if the copping was redirected, or if Mac is a PR that investigates as town, or...

You get the picture.

I give a whole lot less of a shit of people's PRs than I do about their play. You're not confirmed town or scum until the mod says so.



Anyway, to get to Muffin's retort:

It doesn't blow a hole in shit. If there's a lot of scum PRs, and ergo Town PR to balance it, it makes sense that scum is among the claimed PRs, doesn't it?

But, fine, I'm a dumbass and my reasons for doing anything are terrible. Fuck me, I guess.

I'm not going to stop playing the game, though.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

Muffin, give me a reason for why scum would ignore the claimed PRs, especially all the way until D4.

What do you think about how the kills and claims have been going?

[Faster Than Light]

And it's a misrep to say that I claimed solely because Mac asked me to.

It's obvious that the PR density was becoming something more and more jarringly awkward, and so I wanted to clear up any confusion there would be about my role and a few others. In fact, my ability directly clears up confusion over the truthfulness of claims, which is something I've worried about all game.

Now isn't the time to be softing anything, and I was planning to claim today anyway. I was hoping to get results that showed players were lying, but the results I've gotten so far can give some damn clarity, which is good in preventing mislynches.

Also-also, yes, as Bork explained to me, my power confirms if someone is Vanilla (has no abilities outside of factional ones) or is Not Vanilla (Has abilities/a PR). Ergo, I can confirm if someone is a PR or if they are a VT/Goon.

@Antihero: I think that scum have ignored the Innocent Child because he's not a threat to them. It's the only reason I can see for Notscience to not be killed right away.

[Faster Than Light]

I want this to be on its own line, so that it isn't lost in the clutter. If anything I say gets heard, it should be this:
Unless my night actions were redirected in some way,
Nacho is a Vanilla Town or Goon
and
Trust Fund a PR.

[Faster Than Light]

@Antihero: I think that scum have ignored the Innocent Child because he's

not a threat to them

. It's the only reason I can see for Notscience to not be killed right away.

I think that answers your question about why the soft-claimers have been ignored...

But by looking at the claims, there's Vig, Supersaint, Neighborizer, Cop, PGO, VanillaCop, BP, and whether or not they are one-shot is completely called into question given that's already been lied about so far.

At the very least, I'd think scum would kill me, or the Cop, or the Neighborizer. I could see some reasoning to keeping the Vig, Supersaint, PGO, BP, and IC around.

There's plenty of things that could still make Mac's cop-clear not truthful. For instance, if the cop isn't a cop, or if the copping was redirected, or if Mac is a PR that investigates as town, or...

I'm telling the truth.
We're not lynching Mac on the ~1/1000000* chance that venmar was redirected.
"Neighborizing Godfather?", you suggest lynching mac on the chance that this role exists?

We're not lynching Mac, Varsoon. Deal with it.

*note: I pulled this number out of my ass, but I do know that the chances of it are really low

Or he's just Scum with you.
Or he's just Godfather and someone made you neighbors with him (I am right in thinking you're neighbors together, right?) (That's some wave-existence contact with Zohar shit right there)
Or you're right and I should back off.

However, his play is suspicious to me, and I'm not going to cross my arms and deal with it because a CLAIMED cop CLAIMED to have gotten an innocent read on a CLAIMED neighborizer.


@Zmuffin: Hm.
So, what line of inquiry do we take?
I agree, I don't like fumbling with -why- scum killed who they did, but I'm really curious about the density of claimed PRs. It's unsettling.
Your breakdown of the day-by-day makes sense, but, again, I don't know why some of us have lived this long.

[Faster Than Light]

Furthermore, how sure are we that there's a traitor in this game?

Because if there's a traitor, then I'm -really- suspicious of the Cop claim, the PGO claim, and all of AJ's play so far.

AJ's is most suspect, because he brought it up (right?) and spent a lot of time talking about it. To me, that seems like him waving a big flag saying, "I KNOW THERE IS A TRAITOR BECAUSE I AM IT, SCUM TEAM, PLEASE RECOGNIZE", but I've also read on the wiki that the traitor is someone who, when killed, joins the scum team. Venmar's play, especially lines like "IF YOU'RE SCUM PLEASE TARGET ME KTHX" really make me think he was begging to be shot (recruited in this case) but not lynched. A Cop claim fulfills the same sort of thing.


Agh, maybe I should just ignore it completely. It's just making me more confused and paranoid about players and their claim/plays.

P-Edit:
@Zmuffin: Then I'm working with you, since I want to get to the bottom of this. I am really suspicious of Nacho, Desp, and AJ right now. Less so of BRO, to be honest.

Do you think that Nacho is a Goon or VT? Furthermore, what do you make of his post where he didn't claim his role when I asked him to? (for context, look around post 3622)

UNVOTE:

[Faster Than Light]

voting cop-confirmed town is silly at the best of times but I'm going to out my claim now.

the reason i asked is I tracked you to trust fund last night and I was hoping the story matched the result. it does, but we have two cops claimed? not gonna lie, this sounds like a fake claim especally given that you visited someone who had already claimed they were not vanilla.

This is the most awkward shift to voting me, especially since

I've got crumbs and soft-claims since D1.
My play matches up. Why would I be so belligerent about having Nacho be a part of my gambit otherwise? At that point, I knew he wasn't a PR. I was originally going to VanillaCop Nick as well, then realized my ability was non-consecutive and that it didn't much matter since no one wanted to go with my gambit. I originally investigated Nacho because I was paranoid about his play and I would be especially worried if he was an unclaimed PR that everyone was town-reading. Instead, it's the opposite--he's a claimed non-PR that a lot of people have as scum.

I investigated Trust Fund on N3 because I'm really suspicious of the slot. After his earlier claim, I started to wonder if that claim was a lie in order to seem town. I wanted to verify that TF was actually a PR, and if he wasn't, I was going to drill them today. I've been suspicious of the slot for awhile, and I still am, but I don't really have PR-based evidence to make a case so much as I have interaction and speculation based on play so far.

I'm non-consecutive, so I can't really confirm my role further than this until D6.

Antihero, can you cop every night? Are you an alignment cop as I assume or is there anything different/unique about your cop-powers?

-V

[Faster Than Light]

Mac, can you see why I'm skeptical of Antihero's cop-claim, especially since it's limited and could only cop until it caught two innocents? It's awfully convenient that Antihero is a cop that we have no way of confirming as a cop.

I could fully see a scum player (even traitor) 'confirming' two town (or even scum-buddies) while claiming in the same way Antihero did.

More than that, though, I could see there being two limited cops (me as non-consecutive VanillaCop & Antihero as 2-Town-then-useless Cop) in a setup with a small handful of PR-based scum.

That's why I'm suspicious of you and Antihero.

Not enough to damn you to the hells, but enough to seriously consider spending time in your ISO's.


P-EDIT:

@zMuffin: I'm reading right, just skeptical.
I wanted evidence to pin on TF. If TF was lying about having a PR, it'd be damning. As it stands, I think the scum team has plenty of PRs, but I doubt they are -all- power roles (hence why I am suspicious of Nacho). I was trying to use my power more like a lie-detector than anything else. How is Vanilla Cop traditionally used? I don't think it'd do us much good to just VC unclaimed people, but, at this stage, maybe it is.

[Faster Than Light]

VOTE: nacho

Why?

Just because you've been 'cleared' by a claimed cop doesn't mean you can vote sans articulation.

[Faster Than Light]

Right on.

Please show me the crumbs for Venmar. I'm confused to why he wouldn't cop Mastin given how strongly he felt about him. I don't see the motivation for cop'ing the people he did, or where he talks about his finds in relation to his PR. If anything, it reads really awkward and plays into the nagging idea that he's a traitor if there is one. OF course, I could WIFOM this forever, but, yeah, please show me what you're seeing that I'm not, zMuffin.

That said, I'm on board for giving a bit of a closer look at Nacho, Desperado, BRO, and AJ. I feel like they've kinda slipped by until today despite doing some questionable things. I feel that Nacho is the most town out of the group, but that he's also most experienced, so that may be due to his play being that good.


P-Edit:

@Antihero: Or maybe I'm willing to give more agency to a hypothetical scum-Venmar because that's exactly the kind of bullshit I would pull as scum. Replace out wouldn't matter if he wrote down his whole plan in the scum QT, either.

That said, I'm willing to believe your claim, it's just that I don't buy Venmar's play as pro-town. I'm skeptical. Misrep my skepticism as mud-slinging all you want, but I'm going to voice how I feel about people's play, rather they like it or not.

[Faster Than Light]

I'm not the kind of person who 'confirms' someone as town because they claim a town PR.

Even if TD and Mac both die and flip town, it doesn't confirm the role.
The only thing that confirms the role is if the mod confirms to us that it is, in fact, your role.
Ergo, I don't give a damn.
I care more about how you play, and what you do within the inclusive game-space.
I have no more reason to believe your Not-A-Cop-Anymore claim than I do Venmar's PGO claim.

As for those crumbs, I read that as ISO'ing a player over night. Guess it does make more sense in that context, but, still, the fact that zMuffin and others could see it also means that you could see it and fabricate a fake claim around those 'crumb's.

Basically, I'm going to read you based off of the play that I can actually analyze, rather than WIFOM speculation on PR shenanigans.

That said, the way Venmar played, and your claim in light of that, it's pings as really awkward to me. I'm suspicious of your slot. I'm willing to believe your claim, because it would be a really outlandish scum strategy, but to blindly believe the things you have to say isn't really my approach.

Does this make sense?


P-EDIT:
Fine, fine, I'll buy Antihero as Cop-but-not-cop for now. I'm still not going to blindly believe all the claims so far, though. zMuffin's points about RM's role in relation is what really sells it to me. The obvious crumbs can be done as scum just as well as they could by town.

@Bro: Read earlier where I say I don't suspect you nearly as much as I do AJ, Desp, and to a lesser extent, Nacho. Those three are much more suspicious to me. You've been a fairly consistent town-read of mine all game. I'm willing to look at you in-tandem with zMuffin and others in order to come to a consensus on your alignment, but that's not my top priority right now.

[Faster Than Light]

OK varsoon, because I like you I'm going to let this go, but I am going to say that I just want to shake you right now because this is the epitome of overthinking it when the cigar is just a goddamn cigar.

Haha, it's cool.

I'm coming down from the absolutely manipulative and frenetic scum-play that I was using in Open 512 and Calvin & Hobbes mafia, so I'm still in the mindset that scum are Batman villains. I'm more willing to believe that scum is capable of absolutely insane play because I've been there recently.


Let's get our shit together. I didn't like how divided and passive town has been in the last two days.
I liked the fervor from D1.
I wanna see more of that.
I wanna contribute more of that.

P-EDIT:
@Anti-Hero: I'm really confused how he's at L-4, to be honest.

@Desperado: Figured you'd be at my throat again. What's your issue with my posts? Because, as I see it, the ones you quoted actually answer each other.

@Trust Fund: Damn, you're right. I guess I got tunnel vision. I had you as one of my top scum reads. I wanted to validate that read beyond what I was saying, to have something worth-while to put down and put forth in order to get people on board with what I've been arguing for the whole game. Yeah, it was a shitty use of my power. I'm swearing at myself for not using it on BRO. Why the fuck didn't I see that? Again, I guess I was tunneling you too hard and now I feel like an ass for it. Yeah, I'm feeling that you're more town now than before. Yeah, I made some shit plays. Rubbing it in isn't cool, though.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

heres my question varsoon: how did you gambit work at confirming nick and nacho? i dont give a shit if its anti-town, you have to spell it out.

Originally, my gambit had 3 phases to it. Since I already VC'd Nacho and got Vanilla back, I was going to have the following happen:

Spoiler:

1- Lynch out of either Mala or Nick. Since there was high likelihood of a bus on Rach (given how I figured the scum team was playing), I figured this was either a scum v scum or town v scum conflict, but could not possibly be town v town given how many votes both wagons amassed. The lynch gives us an informative flip, regardless of who died at that point.

2- I originally planned to VC whoever wasn't lynched (I was hoping for a Mala lynch and a Nick VC, because as the Nick wagon grew I felt it was scum-infested, etc) and then have Nacho and the survivor claim their roles. It turned out that my power was non-consecutive, something I didn't realize was the case until N2 when I submitted the VC and Bork reminded me my role was non-consecutive. This is why I backed off on the whole gambit thing on D3.

3- With two claimed people who I had VC'd, one of which had a flip on their counterwagon, I could reliably speak towards the truthiness of their claims and alignments, given the evidence between their plays as well as if their claim sync'd with my VC result. At the worst, we'd have lynched town, have reason to believe the counter-wagon'd survivor was scum, we'd know their PR if they claimed it (and I could confirm they had one) and we'd know Nacho was VT or a lying scumbag. Ideally, we'd lynch scum with the first lynch, and have three confirmed claims that could form a solid bloc for town.

[Faster Than Light]

And it's funny all those peeps who were deadest Venmar was Mastin's mason bud have all dropped that line and are trying to poke holes with a different fork now...

What do you mean by this?


Also-also, I like your line of inquiry/exchanges with zMuffin about the possibility of Antihero as scum. Where gut goes, I think it's a strong chance for that to be true. Logically, I have to stand with BRO and say that I could see town having two weak cop roles when scum's confirmed to have a passive role-giver and a redirect/roleblocker. It'd make even more sense if AJ was godfather/some role that couldn't be targeted at night.



@Desp: Nacho's my biggest town read out of that pool of four players. Doesn't mean I can't be suspicious of him. While BRO is more of a null than any of them, I'm not so suspicious of him. I'd be more capable of seeing Nacho-scum than BRO-scum, but I'm also more capable of seeing Nacho-Town than BRO-town. Does that make sense? Keep voting me if it doesn't.

@AJ: Waynegg's tenfold points against you (not just today, but D3 as well), why are you so sure there's a traitor in this game? Why do you keep insisting on it despite points that've been brought up that show there's no proof for it? Wouldn't 1-shot BP be the

perfect

claim for a traitor who converts to the scum-team when shot? You outright went for Mala and Rach's throats on D1, which would give them good incentive to want to NK you, too. I remember you trying to incite scum to target you on N1, but I don't recall any real crumbs towards BP. Can you show me them? Are you the traitor? What's your role? Full-claim.

VOTE: AJ

[Faster Than Light]

EBWOP: Should read as 'Waynegg's tenfold points against you aside,*

[Faster Than Light]

Gut says Antihero is scum, Aj's a traitor, and zMuffin is scum.

Logic says Antihero's claim checks out, AJ's a traitor, and zMuffin is null.

:l

[Faster Than Light]

I was told that there was a traitor in this game.
I crumbed cop.
At least put some conviction behind your cases.

1- I'm not going on a wild goose chase to give you what you want. Tell me how you know there's a traitor. The only way I can imagine you'd know is if the Traitor was in a QT with you and told you OR if the mod told you in your role PM. There's simply too much WIFOM here and most of the scenarios I can imagine either paint you as scum or a traitor.

2- Where did you crumb cop?

3- My conviction is that I find your traitor reveal to be incredibly suspicious. Your activity has been pretty lurky, but it's clear that you understand a lot about this game. You've pushed two confirmed scum right out of the gate, too, which I've explained makes sense if you're a traitor that gets recruited on NK. I've also exposed that your BP claim (BP who doesn't know when his vest is used) also speaks towards the possibility of being a traitor recruited on NK. You could easily explain away a nokill at night. Your 'cop crumb' also speaks towards being a traitor, because it would give scum incentive to kill you WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY giving other cops reason to counter-claim and get exposed via that process. As I see it, your play fits the perfect traitor MO, which is why I'm not going to vote for anyone else until I get answers.

[Faster Than Light]

ITT, scum are frantically trying to make me "not confirmed" because they're hosed otherwise.

Who do you believe is scum, Antihero?

[Faster Than Light]

Furthermore, AJ, if you knew there was a traitor, but you were town oneshot-BP, wouldn't the play be to crumb traitor so that scum would kill you in an attempt to recruit you?

That way, scum gets no NK and you can confirm the the whole game that you're town and that there's a traitor in the game.

The only reasons I can see for you playing the way you did is that you're scum OR (more likely scenario) you're a traitor.

[Faster Than Light]

actually, AJ should fullclaim, full rolename, character and how he knows there's a traitor

This. I asked him to claim earlier but he only gave 'One-shot BP' as his claim.

I want a full claim as well.

[Faster Than Light]

hey varsoon my man

i'm quite convinced that venmar was legit cop; his crumbs look really genuine to me

i mean. of course there's the possibility of him being scum and knowing beforehand who is scum and who is not so he can give easy "results"

but i believe in his crumbs.


@mac

considering that my cop role is pretty lame, especially with non consecutive, along with venmar's 2-time only cop role

versus a rach who can give fake rolez and a mala who can roleblock/redirect "Oh you got a guilty on NS! Oh my action was redirected i had no idea..."

yeah it seems pretty scum sided


aj says that "role pm says theres a traitor in the game"

because he got the traitor pm a-duh! How else would a mod inform you of a possible scum role?


VOTE: aj

if you think that desp is scumz vote him

because i think he is a better player than to tunnelz

[Faster Than Light]

i dont know what has gotten into me today all my s became z

[Faster Than Light]

varsoon and me are in sync

he has better reasons than me for why aj is scum

i explained to him about venmar townread. he agrees.


i dont like voting for nacho although it is one of the most suspicious things that nacho is being lynched. I mean I've never seen that before its like seeing your hero getting beaten up... not yet though


and i am not contributing to the lynch on nacho


i will vote for the 2nd most probable scum

[Faster Than Light]

why do you ask a question that you know you wont get the answer to?

[Faster Than Light]

and i am not contributing to the lynch on nacho

well seeing as you haven't participated in any of the scum lynches, i feel rather good about my nacho vote now.

in seriousness though, i don't think many of the people voting nacho think AJ is town. just that nacho is a better lynch.

just because im slow to the party.....



hmm thers only 4 votes on nacho


my scum reads are aj and desp and probably bro



the scum are down by 2 they're going to be more careful instead of "Jumping all over"

[Faster Than Light]

* i was thinking of the old votecount


according to the above VC it seems that this is a town driven wagon


the last time that happened we got a nick lynch...

and varsoon was doing a funny "bnb u suck" hammer

[Faster Than Light]

ok so thats my fault

next time i will hammer early

[Faster Than Light]

Bnb was clearly town

idk about the rest...

[Faster Than Light]

Andy

you have been friends with Nacho longer than me

you can read Nacho better than me

you are more likely to me right than me

Are you really that convinced that Nacho is scum? Do you want me to hammer?

*not going to hammer late this time

<3

-MS

[Faster Than Light]

ok lol gonna be straightforward then

andy reads nacho better than me

if he says so its probably right so even though i <3 nacho andy <3<3<3 nacho so i hafta listen to him

much better

[Faster Than Light]

I'm thinking the scumteam is composed of all PRs/non-goons, meaning the Vanilla result is strong evidence of me being town. Hence why I want BRO/desp to fullclaim and am lynching AJ the Epic; varsoon will be able to check if BRO/desp are vanilla and that will strongly influence my read on them if we all are so lucky to survive two days from now. Roleblocker's dead and we haven't lost a strong protective role yet (but we have lost a one-shot JK), so chances FTL will live to provide results is actually not that bad.

one of the 3 reasons why I am not voting nacho <3


btw my role is non-consecutive so i cant get results next night lol
restrictions sux

[Faster Than Light]

the only problem that i have with nacho is


andy reads nacho as scum

and i am quite obligated to follow his read considering his expertise

mmm

[Faster Than Light]

I agree that I think Nacho's a poor lynch. I'm unsure if he's scum, and even if he is, then he's only a goon.

Aj's still the better lynch--that's where I want out vote to stay.

Is the board tripping out for anyone? It's all white/grey for me and I can't quote anything.


NS, I can talk to you about my claim. What's up?

[Faster Than Light]

Holy crap, my version of the site just fixed itself.

Nacho, what makes you think the scum team is all PRs?

[Faster Than Light]

On day one. Before there was a night phase. Even though her flip said nothing to indicate she could use her power during a day phase.

No, you have plenty to explain.

bork explained everything in the flip lol


^plain english

[Faster Than Light]

if you really need to know how i know details about RM's role, it's because i'm psychic. i predict her role is one that can assign passive abilities to other players. the crystal ball told me so.

btw muffin

thank goodness RM was lynched day 1

so she couldnt activate her (in my opinion) OP ability


therefore she hadn't had time to work her magic yet


which is good. for town at least

[Faster Than Light]

dead game why oh why


ya im voting aj atm

[Faster Than Light]

Wasn't there a debate earlier this game about the chacne of town vs scum BPs that Mala was involved in?

I don't like the claim, it feels funny to me. I'm trying to figure out why.

I also don't like AJ's claim, but it's more in lieu of his traitor-talk. Around post 4075, there's some discussion with Mala about BP being town. Waynegg thinks BP isn't, Mala says BP tends to be town more than anything else. AJ actually factually claims in 4074, where he says that his role was meant to counterbalance the traitor role, and I still have no clue

how

.

Ftl, I am a PR.I will ensure you get results tomorrow. Clear?

So I guess I'll submit my VC at night even though I technically can't tonight?

-V

[Faster Than Light]

@Nacho:
I don't know how much to trust Andy's read of you--Metal Sonic is much more willing to but I'm skeptical.
I think zMuffin hit it on the head when he wrote something along the lines of "If the scum team was all PRs, that'd make town even more powerful" (looked it up, post 4584). If anything, I feel like if scum is nothing but PRs, they'd definitely try to craft a situation where my VC ability wouldn't victimize them. Then again, I suppose the opposite is true (if scum had goons, they'd craft a situation where a Vanilla result would mean Town).
Re-fucking-gardless, you're Vanilla, Nacho.

Even if you are scum

, I'd rather use the day to catch a scum PR than a Scum Goon.

P-EDIT:
@AJ:
Following your PoE (assuming you're town, in some bizarre universe), Trust Fund is a scum (claimed 1-shot Vanilla'izer/VanillaCopConfirmedPR)? If so, what do you make of Trust Fund/BRO's interaction?
I've been skeptical of Trust Fund all game, so this feels like a real tug at me to put my confidence in you (especially since you've been calling me town a lot lately). I can't discern if you're trying to get me off of your back or legitimately do work in scum-hunting, or both.
AJ, I can't really trust you. You're my top scum-read for today, and you're doing things that simultaneously complicate and reinforce my read of you. I'm going to read all of your posts with a grain of salt, but I guess I'm not the only player in this game, so I want you to keep posting, regardless of your alignment.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

Ultimately, out of AJ, Desperado, Nacho, and BRO, my priority of lynch is currently
AJ > BRO = Desperado > Nacho.
Nacho's vanilla, and lynching out of the other three players provides good info that informs PoE of the others.


-V

[Faster Than Light]

Hydra slips behind yon Spoiler

Spoiler:

@TF: Posting a pic of the other Chuu2 with the Myjolnir [(sp) would've been more appropriate.

@TF: Posting a pic of the other Chuu2 with the Myjolnir [(sp) would've been more appropriate.

This is how I feel about posting nearly-appropriate but not-quite images, TF.

Why so quickhammer? AJ was just prodded, we could've gotten more info out of himmmm

Dat quickhammer->hydraslip combo.

I have dishonored my family. I must go commit sudoku.

[Faster Than Light]

so she couldnt activate her (in my opinion) OP ability

Why do you have an opinion on an ability we didn't get to see?

MS and I have talked about the nature of the so-far revealed scum PRs. We're pretty much on the same page that RM had a really powerful ability that could've won scum the game if she wasn't ever lynched. The way it read when Bork gave the info/flip, it seems like she could give people passive abilities. So, for instance, bulletproof. Or Loved. I think that she likely had a pool of abilities pre-determined that she could hand out, kind of like mad scientist (i think that's the role that does that, right?) and MS thinks she could just choose any passive ability and slap it on someone every night phase.

Re-fucking-gardless, you're Vanilla, Nacho. Even if you are scum , I'd rather use the day to catch a scum PR than a Scum Goon.

This logic's bad and you should feel bad.

Putting this quote in my siggy,
"Scum PRs are lower priority lynches than Scum Goons" ~BRO

[Faster Than Light]

Shit tier annie player, at your service.

I am above average tier annie player


I also play shaco


i am willing to get andy lynched because

1. he can crush scumz if town
2. he was sidetracking from the aj-scumwagon as scum
3. he cant read nacho ;-;


buttttt

if andy is town and nacho is town both die

if andy is scumz and nacho is town then good

if andy is town and nacho is scumz then good

mmm

but nacho reads andy as town

i read nacho as town

oh dear

as long as nacho gives the word to vote andy i will join wagon

but meanwhile lets wonder who is scum

[Faster Than Light]

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

[Faster Than Light]

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?


Still think that TF is scum.


-V

[Faster Than Light]

Oh this ought to be good. Do tell me how my interactions with andrius are scum on scum. ANd how AJ's interactions with me yesterday were scum v scum. I'll wait.

When did I say that Andy was scum?
Also, given that AJ was the traitor, your actions make plenty of sense if you didn't know he was traitor.
Also-also, are you seriously asking me to provide logic for scum? Scum doesn't need to make sense--all scum needs to do is win. In fact, wouldn't it be more compelling if you played in such a way that your interactions made you look town rather than scum?

Of course you'll wait, you scumbag.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

@TrustFund:

Or, and here's the bizarre thing, maybe Metal Sonic and I have different reads?
Of course we're going to write different things.
It's captivating to see the ways you're trying to spin it to be anything but that.

@Desperado:

Dude, I don't get your angle. Why are you piling on points for me being scum but voting for BRO instead?
Also, what are your points again? That I mentioned the density of claimed PRs versus the nightkill trends and that FTL has hydra dissonance?


I feel like zMuffin was either killed out of panic because he was right (remaining scum is in the pool of BRO, DESP, NACHO) or as a red herring.

Here's my (Varsoon's, that is) current reads:
Andrius - Town
BROseidon - Null-lean-town (Depends on TF flip, tbh)
Desperado - Scum
Ghostlin - Town
Mac - Town
Nachomamma8 - Town
waynegg - Town
TiphaineDeath - Town
Trust Fund - Scum (Panicked when I started calling him out on it, even got his hydra mate to come 'deal with the situation'.)
Antihero - Town (still gut-reading as scum, but logic says otherwise)


VOTE: Trust Fund

[Faster Than Light]

maybe Metal Sonic and I have different reads

You quoted him and said yeah you're probably right. Now you disown Sonic's reads?

Also my entire response to the rest is: see syr's post.

Muffin was really obviously scum mason hunting. Speaking of other mason still needs to step forward.

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?


Still think that TF is scum.


-V

Hold on, what was that?

You quoted him and said

yeah you're probably right.

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?

Still think that TF is scum.

-V

Not seeing it, TF.
Also, when I'm talking about 'This' and 'I mentioned this before', I'm speaking towards Metal Sonic's like that 'scum love shooting VTs isnt that great'.
If I was speaking towards the first line about a scum-team between you and Andrius, then my last sentence doesn't make much fucking sense (outside of needless repetition), does it?

It's okay, demonstrative pronouns are hard.

Speaking of teams, it makes a lot more sense for there to be a BRO/TF team considering earlier interaction. Still, no matter what, TF is the root of all evils that I can trace, so I want that slot figured out before anything else.

On the real, why does the other Mason need to step forth?

-V

[Faster Than Light]

On the real, why does the other Mason need to step forth?

POE. If the mason is who I think it is, we can lynch all the unknowns including you and I and still autowin.

Sounds like a scum powerplay.

[Faster Than Light]

varsoon where are you I miss you

how do you feel about lynching nacho?

I'm against it.
Metal Sonic trusts you and is all for it.
I trust you and I am suspicious of the slot but hesitant to vote it over my highest scum-suspects. I don't know if scum nacho has the gall to say shit like "I'm gonna coast on my conf-town status". He refused to claim as a part of my gambit, and I don't know if that was because he didn't want to out himself as VT or if he was starting to suspect I could really divine his alignment via shenanigans. After I outed him as Vanilla, he claimed it, but that was under substantial pressure from more than just me.

How do you feel about lynching nacho?


I feel really uncomfortable about all of D5. TF's touting some power play, Antihero's being called into question by Waynegg and BROseidon, etc etc.
Gonna spend some time in some ISOs when I have the time to spend.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

i'm gonna continue to coast because i'm confirmed town

Vote: Nacho

I'm fairly fucking sure you killed Muff last night. Prepare to die. Also, like Mac's Desp wagon.

Can you explain your Nacho read a bit further? What would Nacho have to gain from killing zMuffin?

[Faster Than Light]

varsoon where are you I miss you

how do you feel about lynching nacho?

I'm against it.
Metal Sonic trusts you and is all for it.
I trust you and I am suspicious of the slot but hesitant to vote it over my highest scum-suspects. I don't know if scum nacho has the gall to say shit like "I'm gonna coast on my conf-town status". He refused to claim as a part of my gambit, and I don't know if that was because he didn't want to out himself as VT or if he was starting to suspect I could really divine his alignment via shenanigans. After I outed him as Vanilla, he claimed it, but that was under substantial pressure from more than just me.

How do you feel about lynching nacho?


I feel really uncomfortable about all of D5. TF's touting some power play, Antihero's being called into question by Waynegg and BROseidon, etc etc.
Gonna spend some time in some ISOs when I have the time to spend.

-V

Ehhh clarification

im against nacho lynch

Nacho was counter wagon to AJscum thats why i feel that possible andyscum is pushing on nachotown

which is why if nacho gives the word to lynch andy i will do so because andy not reading nacho is </3


also Bro vs antihero back and forth was insightful

i find antihero the town and bro the scumm


but that would mean that I am wrong on one of my reads

for example

scum are in

<Nacho/Andy(1 only), TF, Bro(?), Desp(PoE. Also too much mudslinging)>

that is too much a scum read.

what if andy and nacho are both town

but nacho says andy cant read him

but nacho can read andy

but if nacho is scum he would fake a read on andy

this is so painful



if we wanna clear the nacho/andy thing nacho has to hammer andy so we get another scum down




but if we wanna be safe we can look at TF/Bro/Desp

I think TF might be a dumbass after all and not scum

i dont know will discuss with varsoon

[Faster Than Light]

Shit tier annie player, at your service.

I am above average tier annie player


I also play shaco


i am willing to get andy lynched because

1. he can crush scumz if town
2. he was sidetracking from the aj-scumwagon as scum
3. he cant read nacho ;-;


buttttt

if andy is town and nacho is town both die

if andy is scumz and nacho is town then good

if andy is town and nacho is scumz then good

mmm

but nacho reads andy as town

i read nacho as town

oh dear

as long as nacho gives the word to vote andy i will join wagon

but meanwhile lets wonder who is scum

this is what i meant

nacho counterwagon to ajscum is probably not scum but if scum can be determined by Andy's magic powers




actually

whoever was on the nacho wagon needs to be looked at ----> counterwagon to ajscum

[Faster Than Light]

Shit tier annie player, at your service.

I am above average tier annie player


I also play shaco


i am willing to get andy lynched because

1. he can crush scumz if town
2. he was sidetracking from the aj-scumwagon as scum
3. he cant read nacho ;-;


buttttt

if andy is town and nacho is town both die

if andy is scumz and nacho is town then good

if andy is town and nacho is scumz then good

mmm

but nacho reads andy as town

i read nacho as town

oh dear

as long as nacho gives the word to vote andy i will join wagon

but meanwhile lets wonder who is scum

this is what i meant

nacho counterwagon to ajscum is probably not scum but if scum can be determined by Andy's magic powers




actually

whoever was on the nacho wagon needs to be looked at ----> counterwagon to ajscum

[Faster Than Light]

Votecount 4.7 (Final)

[8] Aj The Epic (Nachomamma8, Faster Than Light, Desperado, waynegg, Mac, notscience, BROseidon, Trust Fund)

[4] Nachomamma8 (zMuffinMan, Ghostlin, TiphaineDeath, Andrius)

[2] Not Voting (Aj The Epic, Antihero)

With 14 alive, it is 8 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

A lynch has been reached! Scene coming when I've got the time to get it up but might not be for a few hours.

uhh the nacho wagon seems to be full of town though... the only unknown is andy


i will ask varsoon to get a read solidified


also

V/LA till Friday

[Faster Than Light]

As syr pointed out, it's very possible that since AJ was a traitor, it was a split wagon on scum and scum.


Also, MS, I don't care what you call me so long as you don't go getting modkilled again like in death's diner.


Waynegg: I think it's time to break out the scumputer. You mastered using it yet? I'll have the vote counts colored in tomorrow evening.

Hey cabd, you rock. but your play in this game is lackluster. I've seen better play from you bro, good thing you're stepping it up

and its unlikely that it was a split wagon on scum and scum. AJ pubclaimed traitor after claiming bpv. "my role pm says there's a traitor in this game!" "my role pm says i'm a bullet proof!"

well at least he wasn't lying.

but yeah thats pretty much a traitor claim so im pretty sure scum would have seen that if they knew the existence of a traitor

[Faster Than Light]

maybe Metal Sonic and I have different reads

You quoted him and said yeah you're probably right. Now you disown Sonic's reads?

Also my entire response to the rest is: see syr's post.

Muffin was really obviously scum mason hunting. Speaking of other mason still needs to step forward.

maybe TF + Andy is the scum

yes that look possible from the back-and-forth just the page before

also it is cool that the scum love shooting VTs isnt that great

This.
I mentioned this before.
Maybe people will listen to me now?


Still think that TF is scum.


-V

Hold on, what was that?

You quoted him and said

yeah you're probably right.

I mean like man, how do you even slip like that? I hold you in high regard, come help the town hunt scum, instead of getting hunted yourself.



also no I'm not gonna get modkilled with varsoon here <3

slandaar was the scum in the dethy i wouldn't have guessed that! he played a good game!

[Faster Than Light]

if we wanna clear the nacho/andy thing nacho has to hammer andy so we get another scum down

yeah andy

one of you is scum

but it takes a sacrifice

a sacrifice from andy

so you can die together with nacho

and not leave any emotional baggage behind

because it will break my heart to lynch nacho too

[Faster Than Light]

because either andy is scum or nacho


from just now's posts

andy looks town and nacho looks scum now


but i dont know who to believe ;-;

somebody.... help me believe!

[Faster Than Light]

me and varsoon havent talked for a week

must synch to remove dissonance


antihero is probs town and that makes bro scum





also i had this insight in the shower

assume andy always reads nacho right

and nacho always reads andy right

nacho reads andy town

andy reads nacho scum

therefore nacho is scum ta-da

but the problem is i semi-cleared nacho

so unless he's a goon which is unlikely because scum is stacked up up with PRs



hmmmmmmm

[Faster Than Light]

do you think that he is scum?

because if he is on my scumlist that's one-too-many scumreads

but yes i will synch with varsoon

just leave a message !

[Faster Than Light]

mmmm yeah desp has been dodgy as heck since day 1

[Faster Than Light]

mmmm yeah desp has been dodgy as heck since day 1

*ahem* WHY ARE YOU ON FUCKING TRUST FUND, THEN?

what, do yo want me to hammer?
i havent even talked to varsoon for a week

[Faster Than Light]

i dreamed last night I was in this giant ass department store and I was looking for stuff to steal and it was all junk

oh woops off topic

[Faster Than Light]

Who do I investigate, though?
Guess I'll figure it out.
Fairly certain the last of the scum is between Desp, Bro, TF, Andy.

-V

[Faster Than Light]

Why would he investigate me twice?

This.
I already investigated TF and Nacho.

Looking over the game,
I've got a hunch on something, so I'll probably follow that and see where it goes.

[Faster Than Light]

ok guys im just gonna hammer the scum who selfvoted

first im gonna check if im actually hammering and not some idiot who came late once again

[Faster Than Light]

oh self hammered indeed

okay lets talk in twilight

[Faster Than Light]

oh self hammered indeed

okay lets talk in twilight

[Faster Than Light]

im talking to varsoon rn


is anyone here


p-edit^ varsoon did that