Newbie 1436 ~ Game Over

[Bert]

My scumread on notscience is dissapearing and that's giving me a headache because then it means ffery would be scum with Wisdom =/

I read Falcon's take on Ffery's scumgame (hold on I'll go quote it). You've played with Ffery-scum more than I have, right?

What do you think of Falcon's take?

[Bert]

Analysis of ffery's meta

Town 1) BSG Mafia

Called passive by orcinus who says that she is less engaged with the game. Immediately put under pressure for most of the game with other players guessing that passiveness is caused due to being pressured. Posts lead up to suspicion on buldermar. In the end, voted buldermar while asking Orcinus who to lynch. Asks to be lynched that day rather than the following day since she is worried about buldermar setting her up to be an awesome townie and then FOSsing her next DP for not lynching scum day 1. As time goes on, starts to read Buldermar as town (despite the fact that he was scum). What is notable here is that she is already planning for the next day as to what will happen if she is lynched. She is also called extremely scummy for not fighting her lynch but this just seems to be the way she rolls. Her post 620 also tries to get town thinking about what will happen after she is lynched much as she is doing in this game.

Town 2) Newbie 1389

As IC. Gets accused of being defensive when she responds to an accusation to another player that giving townreads is scummy. Supports her meta style with links. Asks probing question about why a player feels that another is scum and comments a little when they provide their reasoning. When asked what her reads were, says that the person asking her is possible scum but that she needs more time to figure it out and that she could be rusty. Has a little uncertainty, likely because it is beginning of the game and reads haven’t developed yet. When a newbie prods her, she says “I am done waiting for reads” and starts posting ISOs. Does 3 ISOs and then votes her biggest scumread. Reads are not very well developed and there is no mention of trajectories. Explains how Bauss’s stance went from indirect to direct and that is what caused the change in her read. When Lynx votes for a player, ffery wants to chat with Lynx about that player and starts discussing reads. Parallels with her asking Mutt to talk to her. But in this game, her analysis is very detailed. With Mutt, not so much.

Town 3) Newbie 1364

Reads MsMarangal as scum for a “pretty bad looking” argument on dissonance. Asks very specific questions, says that she missed Nick’s lie. Gives her opinions about a case that nickthename made on Broseidon and says that MsMarangal was buddying him and not the other way around. Continues to FOS the same person that she had initially called scum. Disagrees with Marangal calling the progression of her scumreads’s posts “excellent.” The tone is slightly different and she is less wishy-washy. Uses strong words like “this is gold” or “left the case in shreds.” Also says that “these analyses look pretty damn town-motivated.” Shows a lot more conviction and less wishy-washyness. Continues asking very specific questions to a few players. Questions to MsMarangal are extremely detailed, specific, and probing. Is tonally very firm “I have no idea what your case on Nick was.” Does ISO’s on several players. Keeps pushing the lynch on MsM. Isn’t very uncertain or wishy-washy. Is reasonably certain of affiliation. Is suspicious of flexibility where the player unvotes and says he needs to do a re-read since scum want to be flexible to allow the town to chose a direction. 419 shows more specificity. Pro-actively scumhunts. Does a lot more than what was required of her. Picks up on too many dots and less connections when a player distinctly states that he forgot something and then explicitly mentions going after Nacho.
Note that the tediously exhaustive ISOs are not something she does as town. This could very well be a null tell.
A great tell: said she found conflict scummy. So, this is a null tell. However, the response to conflict was to do tons and tons of ISOs. A stark contrast from her scumgame where she merely states that she was confused and demands more cases from the town while being quite vague.
478 shows a lot of willingness to look for evidence. Wonders whether Chris invented those categories on the fly. Once she verifies it, she mentions that at least Dodgy was a technical term in Chris’s lexicon.

This is one game that undermines my townread because ffery in this game is nothing like what she was in that game. However, as a caveat, note that she seemed to be particularly hard-working and willing to dig into multiple ISOs in that game so it is a rather high standard to which to hold her now.

Scum 1) The popcorn mafia

Play is slightly different because she didn’t replace in but none of her initial posts had any content whatsoever. Says that she is bored and wants to gun. There is the general tendency to sit back and not be pro-active. 297 has a lot of very weak reads. No conviction in any of them. Posts very little content and is mostly very unsure. Barely ever justifies any of her reads. Never mentions anything about trajectory or anything else.

Scum 2) Newbie 1403

Mentions that the player who was lynched Day1 wanted to scrutinize a few others, asks how this is going. Provides reads: "

Zebe looked townish. KBW terrible but lynchbait, proceed with caution. TheGargantula is an improvement over predecessor but did notice something that was an amished tell.

" Says that she found the game contentious and that she found some of the cases difficult to follow. Notes in her wiki that town had some serious confirmation bias. Asks each person to lay out their cases against each other and against her scumpartner (thor). Asks Thor to lay out his case as well. Scum motive: let the town fight amongst themselves. In 604, attacks KBW asking “so you are discounting that huge towntell made earlier.” The tone of the post is accusatory since it assumes that the towntell existed and was huge and asked whether KBW discounted it. Mentions that she is bothered by Valius which is a really weak scumread. Switches reads and says that she wants to lynch between Valius, Zebe, and Thor. Valius was the leading wagon. Zebe read was switched from the initial weak non-reason. Thor is her buddy. Weird that she wants to lynch Thor despite Thor and Valius going hard against each other. Asks for links to games to substantiate a claim. Discusses with Thor as to where to place her votes.

- Says “

Gah. So many contradictory stances in this game

.” Wants to stay back and allow town to lynch themselves. Does not want to take part in the conflict when it doesn’t concern her. Does not hesitate in throwing out scumteam pairs. Says she has to rethink everything.
- Tries to keep her head out of the major conflicts.
- Had weak reads that she switched over (Mutt read here parallels Zebe read in that game) but only a little since she elaborates on Mutt read a little.

Scum 3) Newbie 1319

In 232, she does her first ISO as scum. The first thing to note that it wasn’t very detailed and doesn’t really dig into the motivations of players. At least, it is nowhere near as detailed as her multiple ISOs tracking down trajectories of other players. Keeps a reads list detailing all of her reads. Won't say too much more about this since it is apparently not her usual playstyle.

General Notes

1) When she doesn’t understand a case, she tries to deconstruct it and question further as town. However, as scum, tries to stay on the sidelines and pick a case while fanning the flames. In this game, she definitely has attacked Jason upon replacing in and defended JKLM. As scum, I'd expect her to ask one of them to re-iterate their cases, ask clarification questions and as deadline approaches, settle for a lynch. However, she pretty much strong-armed the direction of the day phase and presented her reads very strongly. This aligns with her town meta much more than scum.
2) Has an incredible amount of attention to detail and is very specific about digging to the bottom of a player’s motivation. - This concerned me a little since she wasn't really paying attention to detail. But it is not enough to outweigh my townread.
3) Seems to be more sure and convicted as town but the game where she got lynched is evidence that this isn't a surefire tell and she can also be unsure and wishy-washy as town.

Thought process in this game:
Came in, thought bestwillcui was scummy with Jason a second scumread. A reread of bestwillcui’s ISO made her think he was town with Jason being scum. As she reads through Jason’s ISO, the read strengthened and she comments on every post that Jason has made. Townreads Muttley for not voting Jason since given ffery’s current stance, it ensures that Jason gets lynched today. Bert thinks Jason is town first. This point is important is another reason that undermines my townread. But overall, I won't lynch ffery today if I can help it and it is at all possible to convince any of you guys to lynch somebody else.

[Bert]

Yeah for me meta doesn't work as well for me, except for general specifics as to what to look for

realtime interaction in a game with that person,t here's nothing that can replace that

yep, Nacho told me the same thing about Ffery-scum. that she doesn't enjoy it

Ffery also told me in our scum QT in Mismatched that she has a meta of passively lurking as scum and she's trying to stop that

her pattern here she has been quite transparent though, so...

[Bert]

^that was at Ffery. and by transparent I mean she seems super town. Meh. But fuzzybutternut used to have this rule in this newbie I saw when I first came to this site, that the super-town townread in LYLO, sometimes more often than not that super universal townread might be scum. Not sure how much that rule applies, but i remember that rule gave me the heebie jeebies when I started playing in newbies.

[Bert]

Everybody is talking about my scum game behind my back. :/

There are a lot of differences between my town game and my scum game. I think the main one that people pick up on, whether they recognize that's the difference or not is that my town game tends to be more emotional and waffly under pressure.

yeah you're showing more emotion than you did in Mismatched

and it's more on par with 1415 what you're doing here.

[Bert]

Would be nice if you guys helped me here doing things similar to what I'm doing there.

in order, right?

Wisdom-notscience

wisdom-ffery

are the two that I have, I'm in the mode where I can't see it being anyone other than notscience to go along with Wisdom

I'm trying to keep an open mind though but I just can't see myself ever voting for anyone other than ns if Wisdom indeed dies

[Bert]

I think in most game formats, I'd be dead or there would be a no-kill night by now given how I've played, unless it looked like I was certain to mislynch at LYLO. Newbies are different because of the semi-open format and the constraints that scum operate under. I make it to LYLO in newbie games more frequently than any other format. I should play them more often for the LYLO practice I guess.

Yeah, you almost made it to MYLO if you hadn't gotten lynched as town in 1415 so that makes me feel a bit better.

Also, we can talk about 1429 since it just ended now. I killed you N1 because it was down to you or karnage that beginner wanted to kill, and I was much more scared of you than Karnage. And cuz Nacho was being super scummy and hadn't woken up yet and given it his 100%. You look for stuff like trajectories and from what I've heard, also some weird tells, where you can catch people in one post if you know stuff about them

[Bert]

If today wasn't lylo I'd have asked to be lynched >.>

please stop <3

and you said you're going back and forth with your reads

doesn't matter if your reads are wrong, you still have reads, what are they????

[Bert]

Bert, what do you make of the GM kill given who is alive atm?

it makes no sense for ffery

that's why when Cabd proclaimed framejob i was like what the heck...was it to frame Ffery or what??? and then Sakura was like "mybe it was to frame me(Sakura)"

So like I was super paranoid about that.

heck it makes sense for nobody unless they weren't keeping up or forgot GM claimed which is just weird.

i guess it's a good kill if you wanna kill someone and make sure the kill goes through, sorry if NKA is scummy but you asked, I answered

[Bert]

Well, it makes sense if Ffery sees GM as a threat, since GM was like "look at ffery tomorrow if TSO flips town"

but other than that, it's so much WIFOM it hurts me to just discuss it i get stupid ideas in my head

[Bert]

Lurking is probably more fixable than the other stuff that's wrong with my scum game. And it's usually relative. In the Open game Sakura is talking about, GiF and I hard-core lurked though. There was one game day where we didn't even post. That was an SoS game.

I understand this. I get scared at times too. Remember Mismatched where I went AWOL for a few days and Brian got suspicious? Same thing happened in all of my other scumgames too. It's definitely fixable yeah.

I don't know you seem really spontaneous here, but hey you fooled Cabd TWICE

so the underestimating goes both ways lol

[Bert]

If today wasn't lylo I'd have asked to be lynched >.>

this one didn't seem necessary, I can't tell if this is genuine

it reminds me of what I did Castle D1, a post I'm not proud of at all and Serra was like "if you were a good player, I'd call it fake and scum, but since you're not, I'm gonna go with fake but still town overall"

Um... Lynx ughhh

That's cool...

I don't conform to your textbook definition of scumhunting.

Going all "this is quality" on Nat's post expressing disgust at having to play a whole game with me is repulsively out-of-bounds scummy.

Hating my style is one thing, lynching me for hating playing with me is another

I am so not agreeable how you just pushed away Arc's read post as being "over eager town in the worst way."

Your air of superiority irks me. I'm going to take a chill pill and step away from the thread for a few days now. "Scum does this" and "town does this"... Ahhhhh take each case of each player as its own...

that's the kind of emotion that was emitted in ns's last post, that's what I'm trying to get at

[Bert]

Does it bug anyone else how all three of us not voting thing Wis is scum

Not really, I'm just happy that Wisdom didn't get me down and he kinda became not as forceful in attacking me ever since the start of D3. HE came out strong strong strong with the attacks man

[Bert]

Only time I was with scum with Wisdom, it was in some Polygamist game and you can't bus in that setup.

[Bert]

But ns, Wisdom didn't go after you super hard in 1402

[Bert]

I'm so back and forth on Bert/ffery atm >.>

at least you're considering that I might be town, cuz

ffery has been so townie-vibey it's SO hard to see her as scum

but it's possible as she is competent

[Bert]

ou need to look at 1429. It was a town circular firing squad, basically and Bert kinda floated through it mostly via his back and forth with Nacho.

ask yourself though, was I as engaged and forceful and spontaneous with my reads?

There are lots of differences in this game, and my transparency is on a whole nother level because Cabd was in this game and I didnt'want to be mislynched. In 1429 I had lurky moments, I wasn't forced to type lots of stuff that really makes me an open book. My play was much more tight.

I freaked out on D1 because I couldn't believe he was scumreading me and thus I expected him to be likely scum because of his inability to read me

[Bert]

Also, ffery, if you look at the dead QT, I was so paranoid about being tracked that I made my partner in 1429 send the kill BOTH times. I was so concerned about PRs.

[Bert]

Meh, bert was actively trying to get me back in the game. With me as isolated as I was, I wasn't a threat.

you are a threat if you're scum and we don't get Sakura's opinion after you step up your play

and if there's a good chance that you're town, then from a townie mindset I have to find out now, and so do you about us

what bothers me was that you weren't actively trying to figure me out, rather you were just reading people's opinions, just saying a few things are scummy, and not much else with regard to reads.

you've been sorta coasting tbh Day 3, watching what's going on

until we woke you up tonight, so thank you

[Bert]

I think the thing that probably most characterizes my scum game is that I don't expect to get to endgame, and I put more thought and effort into the NKs and into setting up my partner(s) situations to improve their chances.

This is true, you did tell me and Cabd this, and Cabd said the same about having a short shelf-life and saying I could go all the way in Mismatched, and that you would kill whoever helps my chances best (along the lines of that).

Hmm, yeah you tried to set it up so that we win even if you all got lynched. I remember this.

That's why Cabd was so scummy. IT was like he was trying to intentionally meta-dodge by screaming FRAMEJOB when D2 started and saying how he'd never make that kill. It was the exact opposite of something Cabd-scum does. So that made me paranoid as hell.

[Bert]

The GM kill looked newb, careless or designed for misdirection/lack of information.

That's why I came into D2 really paranoid about agi102 too. In a sense, not everything has gone wrong. GM would have been paranoia central for me and I wouldn't have been able to get that near-lynch and VT claim saving her outta my head on D2, and agi cop - that's two people I'd be paranoid of.

Cabd gone too, now my focus is more razor-sharp without all the lingering paranoia of too many people

but yeah Wisdom's on the ropes here and it's funny no one expects him to flip town

[Bert]

EBWOP: It just seems like one of those kills that is meant to confuse town, as if we aren't confused enough already.

[Bert]

Ffery, I'm not really a threat as town to get NKed, and at the end of the day I was going after people like Cabd and TSO.

Plus, Kaze tried to buddy me during those interactions saying that I'm his/her only scumread, which weirded me out. Also, I claimed VT at the end of Day 1 too, like GM.

[Bert]

Most of all, Ffery you were saying Kaze's game was evolving and only hedging bothered you enough to avoid having Kaze listed as a solid townread.

No one else really was putting any kinda suspicion on Kaze other than me.

[Bert]

DANG enter button oops sorry 3 posts. My point is that my Kaze scumread wasn't strong enough that I wasn't gonna waffle - I waffled D2 and flip flopped...

[Bert]

Only townread you mean?

yep, only townread, my bad.

That's true. he kinda inherited the newbtown vibe we had for gravija when he replaced in.

Yep, pretty much. You said something about how you kinda read gravija as town and moved on to other people because it seemed like a true newbtown person vibe-wise.

[Bert]

see ns this is why you're playing fine (if you're town), cuz look people who are conftown were on all kinds of wagons on town too according to that Sakura analysis

heck I'm on a wagon on conftown half the time, and my only time on Kaze was really brief vote-wise and not even long enough to show up on any VC.

[Bert]

Have a good one!

I'm watching the conclusion of the Colts-Broncos game...

[Bert]

If anyone has questions about the VC analysis, go ahead and spill

I'm not sure what to look for in those

I think I need to look at the timing of Wisdom's doc claim and "lynch cabd ffs before he convinces use otherwise" and if it came right after Sakura said "let's lynch notscience, how about let's lynch ns"

just thought of that, idk why I didn't think of that earlier

[Bert]

the only reason he keeps ate'ing this hard is to appeal to you.

Why would he need to do that? I already said I'm never voting him.

On other news I think my vote is gonna head here now:

Vote: notscience

If you're really the doc then help me find the roleblocker so that our cop lives tonight.

Because you're his only chance to survive. Bert already stated he might sheep you and agi might also do.

Am I? I think I've said enough why Cabd is super town because of my gambit. Why did he fake a cop inno on me to protect me from a NK if that would put him on hot waters if the real cop came and claimed, assuming he did know I wasn't the cop.

[Bert]

I cannot believe the stupidity of this town.

I'm the fucking doctor, do you still not get it? I

know

they have a roleblocker.

Fucking lynch Cabd before he manages to convince the town, he is capable of it.

Never mind, he claimed Doc before that ns vote.

[Bert]

Now, time to look at the timing of Ffery's "signaling intent" to hammer Kaze and what transpired then. I remember vaguely her saying "I was about to hammer" shortly after when Wisdom came in as a replacement.

[Bert]

Yeah let's just do this

Vote: Mario

Sorry Agi, more than likely you're dying tonight unless there's a doctor, It'd be nice if you give your reads and thoughts before day ends just in case.

This.

Intent to hammer

Wisdom replaces Mario4!

Hmm, it was before Wisdom came in that she signaled intent. Interesting.

[Bert]

I just woke up and see what's going on. I came into this game and started sheeping notscience because I felt he was supertown. And I didn't have solid reads coming in, with just one re-skim under my belt.

This is my opening:

Hi...

This does not feel like a newbie game

Dat playerlist <3

Spoiler:

Bert you should sheep me

VOTE: Cabd

Bert, why so Town?

Because I sheeped notscience in 513 and 514, and I'm doing it again since I think ns is town

but I've just skimmed and done nothing else in this game

sheeping notscience is proven to work if you pick the right time

this is the right time

therefore I an notscience's sheep

/pat

[Bert]

Yeah ffery your hesitance got to me in 1415 lol

if there's anything I can do today that would help you make your decision (if you're town) then just ask

I have downtime between random homework stuffs

[Bert]

Sakura and ffery (and ns), anyone want to ask me questions?

I'm working on these Crucial Conversations Journals due tomorrow and those are giving me headaches and I'm taking breaks between each chapter

[Bert]

OK I'll be here!

I'm here all day by the computer, pretty much. I was super worried last night the tide was turning towards having me be today's lynch and I was like DANG what else can I possibly do to be more transparent, especially when Sakura's VCA pointed towards Bert/ns. I'm willing to do anything at this point honestly

I wrote down "I feel like ns is scum because of the VCA and really silly stuff like RVS when gravija (sp) kept picking on ns for stupid reasons, BERT go with your gut"

like seriously I am confused about who's scum between you two to the point where ns wasn't very bad once he got engaged, but the reason he started townreading me is...I don't know what to make of "trying to snap me out of shit" but yeah if I were more certain I'd say so

it's just you have seemed so sincere, and Sakura I'd be lying if I said that "I would have asked to be lynched if it weren't LYLO" by notscience did get to me, that quote, although I kept telling myself this sounds fake, remain neutral BERT.

[Bert]

as in ns wasn't very bad, I mean he actually woke up and started posting last night and told us what he thinks, I had no idea of his stance until last night.

[Bert]

The thing is I didn't snap him out of anything

I Was just trying to find out his stance cuz I've thought Wisdom/ns as a team since the beginning of D3. I told myself last night before goign to sleep, I literally made a note on my iPhone that "remember, don't waver on ns, ns is scum" on my phone for when I wake up in the morning, because I'm obviously not certain about it :/

[Bert]

His play just reminds me so much of how I played in Castle and 1462, it's not even funny

the "I'm not that useful, my reads are so off"

and then when under duress, the "I would have asked to be lynched, I'm a liability, etc." that's all stuff I've said plenty of times as scum to use as AtE

and also how when the game became tight, his style became so tight and that intense strong start is gone no more..

:/

[Bert]

Sakura like our styles have a little bit of similarity, so intuitively I can sorta relate to him, although I feel like I'm going into dangerous territory with this reasoning

but it's something I can't explain really, so yes I'm definitely leaning toward ns scum for sure, strongly

you all can talk me through everything today, and yeah I'm on a break still and I'm waiting for ffery's post, I'll be back in 30 minutes after lunch and such

[Bert]

Do remember scum is looking since D1 for that one town on town vote on LyLo, and will eliminate people that go against such goal. Now what does this have to do with GM's kill? I'll let you think that one for now coz I haven't gone and analyzed it yet.

I'll think about this

[Bert]

hi ns

whatcha doin........

[Bert]

Wow no one has done that for me before. Sorry for the hassle. <3

[Bert]

I can't even try to do what she did, my eyes would bulge

it's ok though, what I really want to hear is more of her conclusions of her ISO of me. that's the most meaningful part and contribution she can make I think <3

the fun's just beginning, now we gotta get to the cherry on top of the cake, which is the conclusion <3 ultimate deluxe!

[Bert]

oh bloody hell you think I'm with Wisdom

[Bert]

You don't think I've been sincere?

Meh. What else can I do seriously

[Bert]

OK well I've tried everything I can and done things I have never been able to do as scum

Thank god you probably die tonight so I have a chance

and Wisdom and I as a team, I don't know why you think me sheeping Wisdom makes us a team, while Notscience and Wisdom being on Caabd or me sheeping ns doesn't make me and ns a team rather than me and wisdom a team

:/

[Bert]

Look I sheep often on impulse, and

also that comment about neighborizer was referring to another game that Cabd watched

if you go with VCA, I'm gonna be scummy no matter how you put it, especially as town

come on...

[Bert]

You may have been sincere, that doesn't say you haven't been playing towards a scum win con.

Yes, but I still don't use that level of stuff as town, that's still dirty play. But aside from that, I've pretty much paragraphed everything in bunches, everything I can do pretty much, announced what I think of everyone, like I don't know what else I can do to get townread that's all

Is it the paranoia from Mismatched? What is it? This type of transparency I can't replicate/emulate, that's why I've been putting as much as I can into these posts.

[Bert]

I'm being looked at incorrectly and there's nothing else I can do about it

Be glad I'm not showing complete detachment or freaking out, which both have happened a lot lately

[Bert]

I mean at this point I don't think there's anything more I can do to change the course of where this game seems to be headed

[Bert]

And Sakura see micro 243, this is desperation time

I got shot after I gave 150% two weeks ago

Cabd at the end made some comments, Im on my phone now though can't quote

I'm still learning how to be town read after the messes I've made as scum. It's frustrating, and the consequences of not having been lynched as a mafia member before in six or seven plus games. Paranoia goes haywire.

It's a stepping stone, that's what my best friend would say.

[Bert]

And as usual I'm in my phone but I'll talk with you before my 1 am

Vca points to me, no surprise with style

I'm glad I'm not doing other more embarrassing stuff I've done before

Nacho has said there's a town passion I can't fake, although I can fake my VI

Like I don't know what I can offer

[Bert]

I've literally never played against scum ns before, except that one game where i replaced out and he was very passive. So far everything seems to point to Scum Bert, but his AtE... idk if he's doing it because he knows it gets me or because he's truly depressed he's being look at incorrectly.

Yeah he was passive in 1402, but ffery is so town and ns has stated he has changed to a new-scumgame

I deserve this after that Cabd lynch though

Nacho and cabd are most likely spectating and watching this game go on

Aha I'm in deep trouble

[Bert]

Sakura i would be lying if I said ns's aTe didn't get to me earlier today about paranoia and irl not expressing stuff easily

Like I seriously wanted to believe ffery-wisdom for a while

That is a testament to how well one is playing

[Bert]

I can't quote now, but ffery

Your memory of 1415 is wrong, I voted JKLM as Jason and you and flip flopped at least 3 times

No one's here...so zzzz time for 9:30 class

Whichever one of you is scum, I have not given up yet

[Bert]

It stuck to Jason for a few days, actually, then JKLM for a day ish, then you for the remaining few days. I recall thinking a different person was scum for 3 nights in a row.

Just like tonight I think it's you not ns after he stepped up his engagement.

That kind of flip flopping is hard for me to emulate

See 1429 for example

[Bert]

Thing is ffery I haven't had a real good gut scumread all game here

So no sticking votes

And your own game you modded, I flip flopped like a madman

Sheeped like a madman, if you did VCA there it would be "Bert's scum"

[Bert]

If you're not scum with wisdom, why are you having so much trouble seeing me as town?

Paranoia?? It's a head scratcher.

Or is it notscience playing very well, too well to be scum?

When I stepped up my scumgame, people didn't see it coming.

[Bert]

Well this time it's the opposite if you're town. My lynch is inevitable it looks like, and I'm practicing being mislynched in LYLO which hasn't happened ever except in Micro Popcorn 4P

Mislynched on any other day but LYLO or Mylo and I wouldn't feel this level of desperation

[Bert]

Since there's so much paranoia, I've tried to play my game or town it up to a never before level in this game in particular

So that is why it frustrates me when my efforts are failing

[Bert]

I'll look but I think the only two times people did VCA were not that

To tell you the truth, Yates and fakegod/waynegg, both when I was scum and the only times other than this game I recall seeing VCA.

But please, I think every game VCA will have me as the chief culprit.

And I can see both of you as town too, but isn't this how it was in 1415 too

[Bert]

I'll go look tomorrow though, there might be one in the game you modded or 1481 I'm not positive but it looks bleak

[Bert]

You're being genuine tonight. Ugh, gut is ns-scum since his is easier to emulate and his style sorta calmed a lot, almost like he stopped being town for a while, and now he's back but not the same ns I saw at the start. That's strictly a vibe I feel

but I know you're competent as scum. And I know you emulate meta dives just like falcon who is awesome at it too

Dang it!

[Bert]

This is making me feel sick.

I hate lylo.

To tell you the truth, the only LYLO experience I've had as town other than micro popcorn was way back when I was in my 3rd or 4th game on this site

I voted and immediately scum hammered. The other, I got shot almost immediately.

This kind of desperation is not survival only, that's not right, I have to compensate overly due to paranoia and I don't know how yet

So subconsciously I'm saying everything that comes to mind and in there is lots of ate

[Bert]

I don't know how else to be genuine and sway people

This is a wake-up call, finally playing in a game where most have seen me as scum before

[Bert]

I should have made it to LYLO/MYLO in 527 hard boiled. Jiffy's kills were questionable

Could have easily made it in 1415. Made it to MYLO in 1489 - that's a game where I have close to the effort I gave here

I wasn't under this kind of pressure in those games, though.

[Bert]

Wait I lost with nacho in micro 213 nightless in LYLO

Now that game I went crazy ate

So yeah you could look at that short scumhunter speed game

I got lynched in LYLO there... Pushed a town lynch

Didn't budge... Yeah

[Bert]

Yes. I wanted to give up in 213, much like I feel now

I actually told Nacho I would avoid posting in LYLO but I couldn't help but post rather than watch us get run up slowly

My worst fear is apathy which I displayed as town in 1402 and 522. I got mauled there

[Bert]

At that time, I didn't have a scum meta yet

So I was more confident than now...

[Bert]

If you look at the post where I said I sucked during LYLO - ill link it on the computer one sec

[Bert]

^That post was Nacho.

This is Bert, my confidence is shot, my reads have been way off this game, and I really don't have anything to say in LyLo because (1) I hate LyLo (2) I've played a horrible game and (3) I'll let Nacho take over the reigns from here on out to give us our best possible chance at coming back for a very unlikely town win, because it's looking like a scum win at this point. I'll be back if we correctly lynch today and it's 3 vs. 1, otherwise see you in the postgame.

- Bert

AND YOU SCUMBAGS

YE WHO I KEEP MISLYNCHING

this is NOT over...

Nacho will come and get you so GET ON YOUR FRIGGIN KNEES!!!!

ROCKY BALBOA!!!

ROCKY

I've lost some of my craziness since then, but the give-upness is very much in that post. I covered it up with crazy pumping myself up a lot then (like 500 Popcorn). I'm not the choo choo train mindset often anymore. I'm more serious now, as you see I don't go all GIFs on people at this point

[Bert]

inb4 that one newbie game where I was scum and you voted a townie saying you were 90% sure of your read.

And I voted Wisdom here saying I was very sure...

I sucked that game, Sakura, and my confidence isn't what it once was, and rightly so

[Bert]

in my future games I'm going to try listening to games on my phone and see how that works out, actually. better than blind skimming.

I have a Bookshare membership but that's not useful for this site meh

[Bert]

don't feel bad for it, my job was to deceive you anyway.

I feel bad about being misread this game though

but I haven't been universally scumread as scum before, yet I'm town here and getting battered to a pulp haha

there is sincerity I cannot emulate and I'm going to have to work on my towngame (if that's possible) so I can be more town when I'm town, because obviously what I'm doing is not enough

[Bert]

Yeah ns that was a tough loss

You did a great job hanging in there though, the last few game days dragged on like crazy

[Bert]

Fall colors green blue
Arnold sees the sun come up
help steady the fall

Ffery are you here
what else do you have for me
have you reached an ends

[Bert]

It seems every time I am watching baseball in the dorm, this thread becomes active again

I am watching baseball tonight (Red Sox - Cardinals)

therefore the thread will be active

dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnn.........BOOM!

[Bert]

Maybe you all overworked yourselves while doing the VCA

[Bert]

Sakura, he's baiting you and annoying you so you will cave in and vote him quickly and end the day

don't cave in <3

Bert

[Bert]

Hey Ffery, please let us talk a lot tomorrow OK (if you're town?)

I know I'm probably the likeliest to die tomorrow, but give me a chance, use up all the time is all I wanna say

I'm pretty clueless about which one of you is scum, but every day I lean towards someone different :/

[Bert]

and are you going to do D2 VCA for me or is all that said and done?

[Bert]

Heh. You think I'll suddenly develop quick-vote syndrome just for this game?

Well if your mind is made up, you might? Since tomorrow won't be like today, it's a do-or-die 3p lylo, not 5p.

I guess that plea applies more to notscience than you, but still

I don't know what tomorrow will be like

[Bert]

Oh yeah, and apparently ffery can be town for voting you after you thought she was scum, yet Bert is scum for voting you... yeah no

Vote: Wisdon

the game will continue btw

I'm town (although you all either don't believe that or don't know that, which I understand)

either way, byebye scumbag!

[Bert]

notsci and Bert deserve the win, then.

stop, it's twilight and the game will continue. I'm not trolling like Wisdom is atm.

[Bert]

I just PMed Mala that Day 3 is over so twilight ends quickly before Wisdom spreads a ton of WIFOM btw

[Bert]

you will not mess with my head, i literally have to channel out everything you've said ever since you've realized you were going down and preparing for a tomorrow

[Bert]

Btw, there's still a chance scum decides to leave me alive for tomorrow, if i die tonight, you can as well analyze motive behind that.

possible, but it will make it easy for me to know who scum is

motive would be to get me dead, obviously, since you think I'm most likely scum

for what it's worth, call me crazy but I'm 50/50 on the last scum for what it's worth

Gut says Ffery,

Brain says Ffery can't be playing this well and notscience has the more transferable playstyle

but Ffery is pinging my gut a lot today

that is where I stand

[Bert]

I mean the VCA, ffery did not do enough with it

I was underwhelmed, that's what pings

and she did the trajectories only after you said you were disappointed she didn't

[Bert]

I don't know, the way Ffery said she was preparing to hammer Kaze, it reminded me a lot of Aurorus Vox in Micro 189, my only loss and appearance in 3p LYLO

she/he hammered Nacho and got a ton of towncred for that, and she has postured to hammer prior

meh.

[Bert]

but I'm torn about whether to trust what Cabd said about notscience being likely scum especially with how he played in Cash Cabd. Dang it. Notscience, you know we just got out of 1419 where Titus thought Shii was most likely scum but voted notscience because Nacho's last words were "Notscience is scum" prior to being mislynched D3. Lol tomorrow will be fun. Meh.

[Bert]

hey thanks for all the effort you put in, I like how you didn't just coast off your conftown status

and +1 for reading Wisdom right! I'm doing the opposite, heading to campus for a few days and bringing clothes and all that shit.

[Bert]

Ok. I got a lot of town motivation out his day 1, even on reread. But, his day 1 in cash cabd also convinced me. He had really only one bobble in that game before PoE started pointing to him.

What is this supposed to mean? That Day 1 in Cash Cabd convinced you that notsci isn't scum?

[Bert]

Oh, I thought you only skimmed the ISO of that game. Bad memory my bad.

Notty and I's styles have lots of differences, but in a way

his style is very transferable to either alignment, much like mine is, I don't know if that makes any sense.

in that we both can get away with things due to doing silly things as town, but as scum it's painful to cringe at having to emulate the scummy things you do as town, if that makes sense

I guess what I'm trying to say is you can emulate it to a point, but like Nacho likes to say, there's a natural passion that you can't always emulate well at times

/rant over

[Bert]

Also, my day 1's are usually the loosest of all my days. There's that. See Castle for instance. I tightened up Day 2, 3, etc. and wasn't able to get that loose again. Same with 1429.

Notty did tighten up. And then the slight AtE appeals. I gotta say though a few of those AtE's in the past few days rang genuine as heck.

There's a reason I'm leaning towards a different person each night. Lol.

[Bert]

Also, notscience's Day 1 was by far his best here out of the 3 days we've had. Anyways I will listen to Day 2 during the night, as aiming for a whole game of listening is too lofty a goal.

Aim low, expect more, get something in between

[Bert]

Yeah, my town style doesn't transfer at all.

The trajectory analysis argument pisses me off a little because I don't always do explicit trajectory analysis in games. This game is pretty much terrible for it. You and notsci typically have scattershot trajectories that are by nature inconsistent.

Okay. But you went with the conclusion you got though, even if you "say" they are inconsistent now. That's how I felt

And yours does transfer to some degree because we all know you're competent, no need to be humble! *sprays a dash of Cabd in Ffery's breakfast*

[Bert]

GiF and I hydra'd in that game. I was Sound of Silence.

Dang...I didn't realize that and must have been thinking of a different game then.

[Bert]

I'm gonna use up the duration of this LYLO deadline thing.

So, put on your seat belts, for this will be a long ride unless you choose to end my journey early.

Love, Bert

[Bert]

I'm actually listening to the whole whole game right now,

On page 50 actually

[Bert]

No you all sound like a woman robot

[Bert]

Ffery, what do you think of Kaze? You said she made a good point about GM's carelessness probably being more likely to be coming from town. Other than that, I can't find you having commented about that slot in the last couple of days.

I recently did a meta dive on Kaze. His game has been evolving pretty quickly. His first game at MS was a scum game. All his games since then have been town. His tone has gotten lighter and less formal with every game. The stuff that has stayed the same about his town games is reasoned stances and observations. I should go back and look at some of those games, though. IIRC he's been mislynched 2-3 times. I didn't pay attention to why he was mislynched. Was more interested in looking for differences in tone and expressiveness by alignment.

I want to know why you didn't answer me clearly about whether Kaze is scum or town when I asked you. Reading back, I've been looking at things and you have a scum-meta for "saying things without actually talking about the elephant in the room," apparently. So I want you to answer that. I am repeating myself, I know.

Yeah, I'm not buying that answer from Bert.

@Wis, I'm at Bert>Ffery=You

Bert because the way he's going about today is really weird, especially considering someone who loves to sheep leading his own wagon, as well as first votes in lylo have the habit of being scum vying for towncred.

Ffery=you because my reads have been so off this game I literally have fuckall

Oh and Sakura's still the godfather

Why did you not buy my answer? And You thought I was the scummiest out of the three non-conftown players in LYLO Day 3, and that Wisdom was the most towiest. What changed your mind about Wisdom later on?

Also, I knew it would happen but I got a huge headache from skimming the whole game today and also listening to some important parts. I'm about done with this game and want to throw it in the trash lol.

And also I'm like 99.999999% sure who I'm going to vote for, those questions are just questions, and I think I'll cast a vote tonight actually.

Because I don't want to think about this anymore, I've spent enough time thinking about this in the downtime. Did I mention I spent time going through this during N3? Yeah, I have spent times when I'm about to go to sleep thinking about this darn game.

I can't remember a game affecting me like this. Lol!

[Bert]

Kaze's my only solid scumread...

I really don't have anything else to say other than I'm glad Sakura is kinda cleared, OKAY FINE she's clear pretty much.

The paranoia subsided which is really good, for someone who I can't gauge well. Same with Agi, I didn't know what to do to achieve a better read and gauge whether he/she is newbtown or not.

Which leaves <Ffery, Cabd, notscience, Kaze>

That is confusing and...

gut reads:

Cabd leaning town, but I feel the gambit might have been to get himself off the hot seat after being a leaning-scum read for several players... that's where my paranoia comes from, plus I can never trust him in a game, it's just he's very deceitful regardless of alignment

Ffery *probably* town, but yeah, read is town. It's always her cautiousness that gets me sometimes and makes me have second-thoughts, but I have a townread on her, although not quite as strong as before

notscience's trajectory and tunneling doesn't really makes sense from a town perspective, so... i don't remember him ever being so blatant with tunneling and all the bold yet empty accusations, and I almost want to say "surely scum can't be this blatant, right?"

notscience isn't flip-flopping as much as I'm used to, and it's like his reads are kinda stationary, not moving, stagnating, doesn't make sense - the trajectory. Vote is kinda parked at times, at least it feels that way.

<Kaze, notscience> does make sense.

I'm sorry, notscience, if I'm wrong.

But I feel like I can relate to your scumgame. I feel like Ffery has been really genuine, and has appeared more town. This is gut too. Damn ffery just gotta hand it to her if she was scum here. Serious skills.

VOTE: notscience

Notsci did his usual town play in my mini normal. He was scum. Giving him a free meta pass is bad.

This factored into my decision.

notsci-Wisdom - Wisdom has notsci in what amounts to a null spot in his reads list, which is troubling. notsci hasn't posted or really even implied a seriatim list, which is also troubling. The thing that gives me pause about this, like I said, is that notsci's attitude today resonates. But, it could be completely sincere and coming from demotivated scum rather than demotivated town.

I went with scum on ns.

I'm so sorry ns if I'm wrong. I just can't see Ffery as scum over you here.

Your anger, ns, the way my anger (faked) came out in 1482, reminds me too too much of myself.

The way you went all Caps Lock, which is one of those weird tells Nacho has noticed about me when I'm scum, early on in the game, or when you were trying to figure out the gambit. From little things to how the newb who kaze replaced voted you and then was quick to back away on Day 1.

Spoiler:

Bert I'm telling you, it's a TSO/Cabd scumteam.

YOU WANT TO FUCKING GO TSO

BECAUSE ILL LYNCH YOUR SORRY SCUMFUCK ASS BEFORE YOU CAN EVEN BLINK

YOU HAVE DONE JACK SHIT FOR CABD, YOU VOTE HIM

YOU HAD NO REASONINGS

YOU HAD NO STANDINGS

NOTHING.

AND GUESS WHO GOT ALL OF THAT SHIT.

ME.

SO SIT DOWN AND WAIT TO BE LYNCHED SCUMFUCK.

Stuff like that just looks overdone.

To where I was listening and

x ns is leaning town again as of 571.

Guize I'm ready to end this day.

Kaze came in and spouted ns as a townread just like that. Then the townread died, but then then some weird reason 571 which I don't think is sufficient led to the townread to firm up again.

Wisdom came in and just dismissed ns as town, top townread it seems, just like that. As his top townread, when ns has clearly improved his scumgame. How can Wisdom just not mention that at all?

Kaze read ns as town for this:

Spoiler:

THE NEXT PERSON TO VOTE TSO GETS OFFICIAL CONFTOWN STATUS AND I DAMN WELL EXPECT THE HAMMER

Pedit-

Lmfao. You said- " TSO loves to get a scum PM with one of the strongest players in the game and immediately hard-bus the slot."

He wasn't in your role pm.

Nice try.

Especially how you're trying to force yourself into being the shepherd of his wagon when you aren't actually doing shit. It looks like you're trying to get conftown status and you've locked yourself in with no escape.

And guess what- You're the one who brought up meta as a defense.

Guess why?

Because I caught you in something you were changing in a scumgame and you want to say "nah it's not in my meta"

ns's style at the end of the day is more transferable to another alignment, the way he changed his mind about me, like *snap, Wisdom's scum* after Ffery and Sakura also changed their mind, that mind-change from such a tunnely player does NOT look like a natural progression.

I am done with this game now. And again, my energy is spent looking at this game.

Hope I didn't screw this up, but if I did, I did the very best I could in this game. I didn't push myself too hard.

[Bert]

Aw man ffery was scum

[Bert]

Wow intense game, tough loss. Sorry, town! Good game scum. <3

Thanks Mala too!!!

See you in games elsewhere hopefully.

[Bert]

Oh, and sorry Sakura too!

[Bert]

Congratulations, scum team! Well done. <3

The game was definitely intense! Wish we could have lynched the moderator too.

You played really well, Sakura.

Especially day 3. I could tell you were playing out the rope.

QFT

[Bert]

Basically, my end plan was that town would look back at my posts if i died, there i laid out where to proceed.

>One of my posts said scum was between ffery and Bert - This implied that Bert and ffery would crossvote.

>Another of my posts implied that ffery had more chance than Bert to flip scum - This was a hint towards ns to hammer ffery.

It didnt run that way because Bert decided to vote the person I was townreading the most tho, but oh well, it's just a game and i enjoyed it a lot (specially the gambit part)

Ah, I learned some lessons in the post-game chats here for sure, thanks for the input y'all. I'm actually a very literal person (don't often read between the lines well). I thought you had it 45/65 ffery and 65/45 bert which made it a coin-flip situation, with ns as an outside possibility at 20/80. I had fun playing with you too! And I'm thankful you got to do your thing being conftown with Wisdom in the game.

It's kind of encouraging me to rely less on meta and work on other parts of my game. Though I still often find good stuff in the meta pile

That sounds like a good plan!

Oh and P.S. Next time I have a random paranoia flood like I did in 1415, it will be for a good reason because you fooled me here! Hopefully when that happens, you're actually scum and not town like Cabd was here haha.

[Bert]

I followed this game. It was fun reading. Excellent play by ffery/Wisdom for turning it around when it looked like Wisdom's slot was being lynched. Bert, I was sold that you were town and was rooting for you throughout the game.

Uh-oh, you and Nacho were keeping up

Everyone beware and meta-dodge next time you see these guys!

[Bert]

I like how you stayed really objective, you didn't remove that lens with anyone, even with Wisdom's AtF or AtE.

I didn't expect that from you, to be honest. When you're not rattled, you do pretty well!

The gambit was semi-baffling to me, though. I didn't believe it when it first happened haha

You kicked ass like I told you in sitechat.

That.

[Bert]

P.S. The GM kill was just as crazy looking as my last newbie where I was a claimed VT and got killed for no reason
N1

I had Flashbacks of Hard Boiled and bringing Tammy/Mala to the 3P lylo