Tales of You (Endgame)

[The Fox and the Hound]

I don't know. It's hard to pull him out of the "above the law"-level read I've had the whole game. And his pretty major towniness early game counts for a lot. We'll see how my read develops now that I'm starting to think of him as mortal.

[The Fox and the Hound]

If you see us in the next couple hours it is almost certainly DV

[The Fox and the Hound]

Pen or Pencil?
Old gen console or latest gen console?
What are you doing right now (other than responding to this)?

GTKAS <3

You and DV on the other hand, scumread me for scumhunting you, throw in discredits, and try to position yourself against me. If you are town, I don't even know what to say.

See, this kind of stuff is just ridiculous. I haven't even voted for you, and I explained why I thought your reasons for suspicious us didn't make sense, and I really don't get how it's unreasonable for me to investigate this further. I'm not relentlessly tunneling or doing anything else that I feel could require this 'if you're town I don't know what to say' stuff. And you're the one complaining about discredits!

I'm not positioning. I'm saying what I think about different posts. This is how I play mafia. Eventually it all, in theory, adds up to an opinion.

This is exactly how I am. <3

It could not possibly be more boring?

Scumreading me is never boring.

Thank god, someone that actually makes sense posted. You should have killed AP N2. Anyways, PV, give me a quick update on where your reads are at.

Unless the last 30 pages contain mystical answers to as yet asked questions,

Town-me, you, JustSheep

Not first choice for scum -
Breakfast
FoxHound

Used to think was town before replacement
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal

Leaving 4 scum by PoE & play

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) <--most likely
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) <---I know this is unpopular, but I want empirical evidence of townhood, not circumstantial
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) <----This may be switchable with the 2 categories above it.
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) <-----because I still have a null-read 7000 posts into the game. Experience says that it's probably scum.

This makes a lot of sense and feels town as fuck.

Thank god, someone that actually makes sense posted. You should have killed AP N2. Anyways, PV, give me a quick update on where your reads are at.

Unless the last 30 pages contain mystical answers to as yet asked questions,

Town-me, you, JustSheep

Not first choice for scum -
Breakfast
FoxHound

Used to think was town before replacement
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal

Leaving 4 scum by PoE & play

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8) <--most likely
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane) <---I know this is unpopular, but I want empirical evidence of townhood, not circumstantial
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling) <----This may be switchable with the 2 categories above it.
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience) <-----because I still have a null-read 7000 posts into the game. Experience says that it's probably scum.

Thisthisthisthisthisthisthis. So fucking this.

Just look at this post, see how much sense it makes.

I was getting really confused and lost with all the latest posting but I'm glad PV jumped in and actually started making sense and looking at the game in a way that I can understand. Thank god you are in the game.

I am so confused.

And I applaud that your scum team is going to get me lynched, but considering I'm actually going to argue for my own lynch today unless something weird happens, it's whatever.

Tammy, if you have something that you really really think makes lynching you a good idea (I'd like penguin's thoughts on this too actually), then I'm happy to do it. But if it's even so much as partly because you're frustrated with the game or think scum is going to get you lynched anyway, then there's no way I'm going to touch you. I've decided that unless something really odd happens I'm just going to assume you're town and do away with any semblance of paranoia. I know you don't trust me, but unless I really believe that you genuinely think lynching you is a good idea, I'm going to fight against your lynch regardless of what Ceph thinks.

Now CF, my immediate reaction to your posts was more confusion than actually finding you scummy, but your posts were strange enough that I think it's pretty reasonable and even expected that Tammy would scumread you for it. So, after everything you've gone through with Tammy this game, I don't understand why something that is not even scummy causes you to completely revert you read, especially from someone who has insulted my townplay because I pressure people who suspect me. You've even voted for Tammy previously in the game, so having such a problem with Tammy voting for you doesn't make any sense! Please explain this to me.

Go read Carbon's first 50 posts. If you still think he is scum, come back and explain why.

I read what was probably their 50 posts last night. I thought they were pretty town, but they're not nearly as amazing as you seem to be implying.

NotScience, can you explain why you prefer not to lynch Tammy when she asked to be lynched? That implies a certain role that benefits from being lynched, doesn't it?

If I can tell that this is probably at least partly emotion-based and not necessarily the best course of action, then surely you can too. I mean, she's even voting for you.

Woah, what is going on?

Vote Tammy please or explain in detail why you won't.

I'm not voting Tammy because I have no idea why I should (I'll read up soon though).

Okay, let me know when you are ready?

I take it back.

I have no interest in hydraing with you.

Tammy, if he's scum then he's doing all this because it's to his win condition and is probably hating it as he's doing it. If he's town then he genuinely thinks you're scum. Please don't make this a thing outside the game.

Gah, pretending to suspect Tammy always ends in disaster.

UNVOTE:

Ok this feels pretty fake.

Hmm, I'm once again conflicted on CF, and I don't think I'd vote for him without reading all of his posts anyway, so I'll do that and then make a decision.

What I do think though is that what CF did is the kind of thing that looked really scummy and was bound to be considered suspicious. So, wanting to see who would jump on doesn't make any sense because I feel like that's what town would do. I actually think it odd that RG didn't react to the whole CF thing despite having CF as a scumread. I know that I was trying to think of ways how CF was not scum and coming up short, and didn't even consider that it might be a reaction test. Theories about RG & CF being scum together with this being a ploy to enable CF to townread RG convincingly (and maybe get RG townread by others too) are going through my mind, but I'm not sure how likely this is.

1) Why am I not voting the Nacho wagon is a stupid accusation. We are nowhere near deadline. We're not lynching right now. Who I am voting is irrelevant.

But you know after previous events in this game that often lynches are essentially decided way before deadline (e.g. Mastin, Cupcake), so this doesn't make sense.

CF, AP's reaction test, although not a very good one, made a lot of sense based on a post he made before it (I forget exactly what it was). Although the apparent lack of scum motivation is what's causing me to be cautious about this whole thing, I don't understand your reaction test at all, not your conclusions, your expectations nor your behaviour. The PV thing makes sense, but the Tammy stuff? I feel like town just nips it in the bud as soon as it starts to go downhill (e.g. what AP did), not try to continue it. That feels like scum that tries to fake a town reaction test, but that doesn't know the best way to make themselves look good out of it after.

AP, don't do this self-voting thing. Although I don't feel the same way I do about Tammy, there's no way I'm going to support some lynching you scheme to prove that CF is scum when it actually does nothing to achieve that anyway.

I've kind of skimmed some of the most recent posts, but this is too much for me right now. I'll be back a bit later today.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh obviously, no one needs to explain something if they already have.

[The Fox and the Hound]

*after it starts to go badly for them

[The Fox and the Hound]

AP, I'm lazy and bad and am really hesitant to make votes before doing things that my being lazy and bad sort of stops me from doing, but I am determined to change my ways and actually do stuff this game.

Also, if I were anything like I have been my last few games, I'd probably be really over the game too and perhaps even just letting people lynch me like, but I think it's much a better feeling when you try to keep with it.

Pedit: Oh everyone wants to lynch themselves. Fun.

PEdit: haha ok

[The Fox and the Hound]

Carbon, I'd like to know where my thoughts on your reaction test are wrong and so obviously from scum.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Carbon, I'd like to know where my thoughts on your reaction test are wrong and so obviously from scum.

Why do you think that'll help?

---

I'm not scumclaiming, I want you to vote me because I assessed the state of the town right now and realized that me getting lynched before LYLO gives us a better chance of a win.

So I have a better idea of whether you're just making it up or not. The fact that you're asking me a useless question instead of jumping at the opportunity to show everyone why I'm obvscum doesn't help that much!

Also, I'm not decided on whether you're town or scum. I am not going to support lynching you until I reach such a decision, and just like with everyone else if I end up thinking you're town I'm not going to let you lynch yourself because you think it will be best for town blah blah blah.

[The Fox and the Hound]

CF, if there was going to be enough support to lynch another townie today, then what's stopping that townie from being lynched in LYLO instead?

Nothing.

PEdit: well yeah, but I'm kind of like that too, so...

I'm so bad at this.

[The Fox and the Hound]

CF, if there was going to be enough support to lynch another townie today, then what's stopping that townie from being lynched in LYLO instead?

Nothing.

PEdit: well yeah, but I'm kind of like that too, so...

I'm so bad at this.

Because a lot of people find me scummy and it allows them a much needed reset. If we deadline lynch another townie or lurker lynch, then it'll be the same thing over again tomorrow. I played crappily. I look justifiably scummy. I can't even convince the one person who can read me really well that I am town for actual pro-town actions. The only thing I'm doing this game is getting on everybody's nerves. I just want out out of this game because I can't concentrate on anything else while it is going on. I want to play some other game, revise and reset and learn from mistakes here. I just don't feel like playing this game and lynching me now will give much needed info and resets that let town still have a shot at winning.

I think you know deep down that resets don't really happen.

If you are town, I'd suggest detaching yourself from the game somewhat. You can stay in the game without needing to think about it all the time and get totally invested in it. If you are town, then I'd see this as favourable to getting yourself lynched.

Make up your mind DV. You are going to be annoying either way, aren't you? You don't believe I am town when I explained to you why; you won't believe that lynching me because I look scummy is a good idea either. Like the only thing you are doing is hedging.

So you ask me to elaborate on why I think lynching you is not a good idea if you are town, and then because I'm continuing to talk about why that specific scenario is bad apparently I'm being annoying and hedging? What?

I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not going to do what I did with Mastin and aggressively push a vote on someone even though I haven't actually thought about it properly nor read all of their posts. I'm sorry if that's annoying, but I don't see why I need to make a decision now right now.

[The Fox and the Hound]

BUT, I'd actually rather prefer I get lynched because if we lynch some other townie today, we lose for sure.

So, everyone please vote me in your next post.

Also, please realize that if we mislynch today and I get to LYLO, everyone will obviously vote me, so it is more strategic to lynch me today so town at least has a chance tomorrow. I don't want to be the auto-lynch in LYLO and I kinda want out anyways,

This is not "obviously" a thing that is happening and I don't understand why you are so convinced of any such thing.

Fox is obvscum based on their last post. It is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way any of AP/Nacho/Fox are town in this game. The last scum has to be between Magenta, and Penguin although I am a little paranoid of PV.

How? Why? Who? When?

Carbon, I'd like to know where my thoughts on your reaction test are wrong and so obviously from scum.

Why do you think that'll help?

---

I'm not scumclaiming, I want you to vote me because I assessed the state of the town right now and realized that me getting lynched before LYLO gives us a better chance of a win.

What do you mean why do you think that will help. We are town. We can't respond to "OMG THIS IS SOOOO SCUM I'M WASTING WHAT I'M TRYING TO MAKE MY DYING BREATH ON THIS"

DV, isn't it really obvious that if we lynch some other townie today, someone's going to vote me in LYLO? We as good as lost this game unless we lynch AP/Nacho and the way things are going, it probably won't be the case. Lynching me now will provide town with much needed resets while going into LYLO and eliminates a supposedly "scummy" player which overall has benefits. If you are town, please see the obvious. If you are scum, quit the act, it is annoying.

And now we could possibly be town again, ok, that makes so much sense! Why is this "obvious"? I just can't wrap my head around the fatalism. You are self-destructing. If you are town, please stop it.

Make up your mind DV. You are going to be annoying either way, aren't you? You don't believe I am town when I explained to you why; you won't believe that lynching me because I look scummy is a good idea either. Like the only thing you are doing is hedging.

And now we're insulting DV? Why is is so imperative we have our minds made up instantly. You can't possibly believe confusion definitively translates to "will definitely vote you tomorrow".

EVERYTHING THAT THE FOX AND THE HOUND POSTED IS FAKE AS HELL.

All of it is inflammatory bullshit that is trying to serve the scum agenda. All of their comments are positioning and discrediting. It is a whole load of absolute crap.

Are you faking shit again to try to get us to vote you? Why are you saying any of these things and refusing to back them up?

[The Fox and the Hound]

I'm going to fight against your lynch regardless of what Ceph thinks.

Not gonna be an issue.

[The Fox and the Hound]

WHO'S UP FOR A LATE NIGHT UNBIRTHDAY PARTY WITH DV?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Birthday!?

My dear child, this is not a birthday party!

(It's not my birthday, sorry for the misunderstanding)

But hi everyone!

[The Fox and the Hound]

And happy birthday to AP in 3 days time!

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ok, I need to ask, how do people go through such long ISOs without dying of old age by the time they finish? I've been at it since my last post and I'm only in the first half of Page 2/4. My progress on previous ISOs was similarly slow.

[The Fox and the Hound]

The worst thing is that I'm starting to really think CF is scum, but don't want to go with that until reading all of their posts. But it's killing me!!!

[The Fox and the Hound]

I'm starting to really think CF is scum

I've lost the passion for this somewhat after taking a break from reading. I'll probably only know what I think at the end, so I'll just shut up until then (not sure if I'm going to quite get there tonight, but it'll be close).

[The Fox and the Hound]

Spoiler: CF Cont...

-Analysis of me in 1689 is good.
-1812 leans town because I think that scum would actually feel obviously manipulative posting it and may avoid it, while I think it's all reasonable and makes sense from town.
-Ffery wall in 2157 feels very over-the-top for scum. More likely from town concerned about a read on them.
-Assuming RBD is scum because of the miller claim is odd, just because set-ups often have quirks like two millers etc. where town chaotically argues about it to their death. Until now I always thought that CF had claimed miller and that the consensus was that people weren't sure whether it was a true counterclaim or not (that was the part of the game I never actually read). However, 2184 seeks to make it a 1v1 and doesn't even consider the possibility of multiple millers in what is obviously a complicated set-up. I also disagree that the way CF did it makes him town, as there aren't really any consequences. If scum, it's clearly designed to get the RBD lynch, and if RBD is lynched and flips as a town miller, then the question of why he would counterclaim, and lolCabdsetup would probably make him regarded as obvtown who can get away with not being killed because of their miller + claimed status. This is definitely not my biggest concern about CF (as looking at it objectively, it's certainly possible town), but it is odd to me.

If they flip town, lynch/vig us.

I think this is scummy. With other people thinking that two millers in a game is possible, there has to be some sort of doubt in CF's mind, and I very much doubt that town-CF would want to be lynched/vigged if RBD flip town. It looks like scum making a nice bold claim that they know is not actually going to go through. I see the strength in read here as similar (if not less strong than) to the read of a cop on an innocent result in a set-up where there may be a godfather. It's pretty unlikely that the innocent result is scum, but there's no way the cop's going to say 'well if they flip scum, lynch me!' because the possibility is there, just as I think it has to have been in this scenario. On the other hand, I think it can easily come from scum trying to fake conviction and be town when lol it's not actually something reasonable town would say. The more I'm writing the better I feel about this and I think it may actually be really strong. I'll have to read over it again to make sure I'm not just latching onto anything I can find, but at this point in time DV believes he may have something to get excited about!

2916 may be interesting to look at later.
3036 too.
3116.

I am similarly confident about the Fox and the Hound every time DV posts.

This is part of what makes me suspicious of his read change. It's understandable if he has a problem with my suspicion of him, but he goes beyond that to suddenly claim he doesn't like any of my recent posts. I don't understand how this can be the case, as obviously my alignment hasn't changed mid-game and I don't see how my posting has changed so much to justify such a change. If anything I've been more transparent and been putting more effort in than before.

3971 is townish to me though. I don't know if F-16 would have no trouble with that kind of thing as scum, but I could see scum being uncomfortable saying that kind of thing.

I find 4112 pretty town as well. The point about reinforcing is pretty accurate, as I think the same thing happened with Ceph and I with our Mastin read Day 1. The frustration feels town too.

5121 does actually feel like it could be fake, but looking at it now the Tammy thing in general doesn't make a whole lot of sense as scum. It's possible that it'd make CF look more town, but what's the point really? It actually reminds me a lot of how I get when I'm in a mood, and realise that what I was thinking was not quite right at the time.

Ugh I want to read you as town so much, but this is hard!!! 5334 just feels really town to me.

His day 3 play does feel flat though. There's a lot of interacting, but apart from the Tammy thing, you don't get a real idea of who he wants to lynch. AP is a clear scumread, but you don't get the impression from his posts that he actually cares about getting him lynched even before the JSU result (if you're town and did then I apologise). The vibe is much more one of just sitting back and seeing what happens, while talking to people about game-related ~stuff~.

5610 shows that he's 'considering all the possibilities' and thinks that bussing is unlikely.

We're still close to the same page except I have Magenta and Cupcake switched around. But we're lynching either Cupcake or AP today and that should help clear things up.

Now this is one of the posts that I feel is a strong example of my concern's about CarbonFiber's Day 3 play. This post (following Stalin's read list) indicates that Cupcake is a strong townread for CF. If Cupcake vs. AP was a true 1v1 then I'd understand him not really fighting a cupcake lynch if flipping town meant that AP was scum and everyone would know it, but it wasn't really like that. There were scenarios where they could both be town, so if he really thought Cupcake-town and AP-scum, I think he'd be less likely to restrict the lynch to them two, and at least try to lynch another scumread (e.g. Nacho, Penguin) if he didn't think he could get AP lynched that day.

5907 and following posts are pretty ugh.

@ DV, if you have info that there are multiple roleblockers in the game, I think that makes a crucial difference in whether or not Katsuki is lynched today so you should definitely out it.

Ok, so we do claim something that indicates roleblockers may not be a rare thing. We still think Cupcake is scum based on play, but it's odd that CF says this, but doesn't do anything with the information we provide if he apparently thinks Cupcake is town.

Sorry, my internet cut out last night, but I've finished up to Day 3. Feeling really conflicted (obviously) and not sure if I'll be able to sort it out without doing other ISO to work out where CF fits, but I'll say more later.

[The Fox and the Hound]

er, end of Day 3.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Holy fuck, will you stop complaining about how I am supposedly not trying to get AP lynched and actually vote him or something? It is really ridiculous how you are complaining about me not wanting to lynch AP while supposedly townreading him. Either you think he is scum and I am avoiding lynching my buddy (fucking LOL), or you think he is town and your discussion is absolutely meaningless. I also addressed your point about AP several times so it feels now like you are being intentionally obtuse and repeating it like a broken record.

I'm not complaining, and as I think I've covered you not liking something I'm saying about you probably won't change me thinking it. I'm not sure if it means you're scum with him or if you're just scum that doesn't care about lynching your scumreads. I'm not even sure if I think you're scum yet!

[The Fox and the Hound]

I really don't understand your reaction. I think I'm being very reasonable with how I'm going about things. Trying to look at each post objectively etc. Keeping a cool head about things which I can't always do, and I'm holding off on making rash decisions, but apparently I'm still complaining too much and being obtuse?

PEdit: Um, not caring about lynching AP does not mean you're scum with AP necessarily. Not caring = scum if you're pretending to care.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Also, even if I think you're scum with AP the logical first lynch is you so ???

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ok, so the only times I even mentioned AP specifically were posts where you seemed to be trying to get AP lynched.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh and early Day 3, but please do show me where you're trying to get him lynched there because I didn't see it.

PEdit: I'm not sure, but I think it's certainly possible that you lost steam, or didn't want to burn more towncred by strongly pushing another town lynch.

Conviction isn't scummy, but saying that you're happy being lynched/vig if he flips town is.

[The Fox and the Hound]

No, you are not being reasonable. You are hedging by pointing out towny and scummy posts so you can take whatever stance is convenient for you.

Also you've lost the opportunity to use the excuse of not knowing how I play, so...

[The Fox and the Hound]

I didn't attack you at all in my latest post for not trying to lynch AP after the clear.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Time for the final stretch!!!

Spoiler: CF Part III

I maintain that the suspicion of us starting in 6788 is scummy. I'm pretty sure the post I made suggests that it's not a strong suspicion of mine, but more of a slightly outlandish theory that I was amazed someone else came up with too (the part about not telling Ceph because of it being too out there with no actual concrete 'I think this is scum' shows this pretty clearly I think). Carbon Fiber also emphasises the fact that he responded to it already, which 1. shouldn't make a difference and 2. didn't even counter the majority Tammy's post. Apparently from this I am opportunistic and scummy, but I see nothing in my post that could be interpreted that way (if I had used that to launch into a scumread then that would be fair enough, but while my readslist is a bit unclear as to the reason for my weakening CF read, I do say that it's not exactly about what I quoted before). My main issue at that time was CF's lack of influence (and interest in exerting it) at points in the game, and while I wasn't clear on exact details then, I feel that my re-read has confirmed a lack of it on Day 3 and early Day 4 in relation to scumreads (he has people that he scumreads, but at these times tends to take a sitting back approach that he actually mentioned as part of his scumplay earlier in the game).
My conclusion here though, is that the way a scumread on me develops feels unnatural. Although I wasn't sure of what I thought, I think that some of what CF said is stuff I'd think him unlikely to believe.

You are null because neither your nor Cephrir's catch up posts were awesome. I disliked them quite a bit. They picked up on ridiculously irrelevant stuff. Nothing I saw in there felt like an attempt at scumhunting. They are massively positional. The points you picked up on seemed like they serve an agenda of laying down a trajectory of reads development so that you eventually wind up scumreading players that you want to scumread and townreading players that you want to townread. For example, 6570 is massively opportunistic. Defense of Tammy, questioning of RG and JSU, some pointless line about me that I don't even understand the purpose of. You've decided who you need to agree with and who you need to disagree with and it feels like you are tailoring your posts to that end. More positional junk in 6402. 6058 was just bad. 5606 is geared towards directing the lynch and a setup for your eventual vote. You disagree with Cupcake and agree with AP, never mind the strength of their respective points. 5360 was incredibly underwhelming and the mechanical questioning was awfully fluffly.

I few of the points raised here are fairly reasonable, but my main problem is the addition of ones that are not, mostly in other places.

because it doesn't make sense from DV's point of view to agree with that.

The argument about me townreading AP (which he has continued even today) feels really off as well. My post says it was something I was worried about, not something that I actually believed was the case.

The other thing is he argues that not going for lynches is the idea based on the gamestate etc. as if it's obvious (6849), but after Day 3, logic dictates that this kind of play may lead to lynches being determine that you're not happy with, so after Day 3 I would expect CF to try and have a greater role in influencing the lynch, not ease up.

7037 is weird. When you really think about it, all the things he describes of RG's play are things I'd expect of scum trying to get townread, while his description of our play is what I'd expect from town. It's just colored differently to have us look bad and RG look good (not sure of the viability of CF/RG combo right now but there are a few posts that have made me suspect it), but in my opinion at least it's the opposite of what I'd think.

Then we get to the reaction test fiasco. I believe that the PV thing was intended to be a reaction test and I don't have a problem with it. However, I don't believe that he would vote Tammy as a reaction test as town after what happened earlier and also considering the fact that it makes no sense whatsoever. If he's doing something deliberately unnatural to see who will jump on him for it, then it would actually make more sense for town to suspect him for it than not. He uses the fact that he thought tammy was gone as a reason for posting what he did about PV, but how then does he vote for Tammy after he realises that she's still there?? It doesn't make a great deal of sense as scum either, but I could see it happening from scum worried about looking bad after Tammy's vote on them and making a spur of the moment decision, but from town, it just doesn't fit.

The penguin vote despite having previously thought Nacho, AP and I were all obvscum too is weird.

No, you are not being reasonable. You are hedging by pointing out towny and scummy posts so you can take whatever stance is convenient for you.

And adding on to this, there are many points in the game where CarbonFiber himself has both reasons to townread and scumread a player, so how does he think it scummy if it's something he himself has felt.

That's the end of it, and while I feel like it's a scumread I know that there's some townish stuff I need to look over, so I'm going to read the few pages of the thread that I didn't before and then decide what I think.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I'm here. I'm still town.
What happened to you reading through every player and giving in depth reads on them? It still feels like you're floating through the game without the usual DV fire: I appreciate the piece of honesty with mask talk, but I'm still not seeing the DV that I've been looking for.

I also don't think telling me to be town does anything of note or has done anything of note for anyone: as scum, I'll drop a fake town tell every couple of posts but I really don't town on command for anyone except for Tammy and even then I make her wait for it and make the impressive big and dramatic

I am doing that, but ISOs are taking me a long time to get through non-lazily. I feel like you are placing unrealistically high expectations upon me. What fire have I possessed in other games that I haven't here?

It's fair enough that you wouldn't town on demand but the fact is that I'm town and I don't trust you, and I feel like I really should at this stage. I don't know if I am placing unrealistically high expectations on you, as there are post strings of yours that I find quite town, there's nothing I can point to with reasonable confidence like I did in N's game and I know there are games (e.g. Doctor Who) where you appear less town. However, as I think you may have mentioned, it is rare for us to be town in a game together for so long and not be strong townreading each other.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Thinking CF is scum, but I've run out of time to do what I wanted tonight. See you tomorrow!

[The Fox and the Hound]

I think we're being set up to be tomorrow's mislynch if not today's but everyone is apparently deus ex scumreading us so I don't know who to blame. Probably Nacho.

I can't actually believe that Falcon is OMGUSing what looks to me to be a really reasonable set of thoughts.

That's pretty much all I've got right now. I'm going to be relatively busy for a few days.
-Ceph

[The Fox and the Hound]

Get your magnificent feathery body back on CF.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Timing: Waiting the entire day to counterclaim Rancid miller claim is more strange for Carbon-scum than it is for Carbon-town. If I remember the game state correctly, momentum had begun to swing towards Rancid lynch already, thus adding actual reasons for Carbon to get heat after the Rancid flip when there was no way in hell he would be dinged for it if he was simply wrong seems like an extraordinarily strange move: it does explain why he was pushing Rancid so hard earlier, but that's minimal benefit considering that's a stupid reason to find him scum and that's something he wasn't really getting heat for earlier in the game.

Do you actually believe that the miller claim is as big of a towntell as people are saying it is? I agree that the waiting is odd, but not the point where I consider it a strong towntell. If Carbon Fiber is scum with miller as part of his fakeclaim (which could so easily be the case), then I don't find any of it that odd at all. My reaction when I heard that there were two miller claims was 'Oh, that's probably irrelevant in this set-up', and I honestly think that reaction would be expected considering all the lolcabdgame quotes that have been thrown around. The counterclaimer always always always looks more town than the one counterclaimed (unless it's LYLO or something) and so the risk from claiming miller is really really low (even lower if it's been given to them as a fakeclaim!) because after a Rancid town-flip, scum know that the town thought process will be, 'Why would scum-CF counterclaim RBD when he was under significant pressure anyway and sacrifice himself in the process? He's town.' The problem here though is that he wasn't sacrificing himself whatsoever.

IDK I want to ask him to dance because he seems like he'll say yes!

I'm a terrible dancer though!

Dear scum team,

AP is the only townie who's being absurd enough to think that the miller claim is fake. Even if all 4 of you pile onto the wagon, you're only getting to 5/6. You have to either go for me/Desp+one of the 2 townies in the uncleared group, or both townies in the uncleared group

Best,
BROseidon

Dear BROseidon,

On behalf of the scumteam I would like to announce that, since you are town and we are scum, we are aware that any advice you pretend to give us will be lies and deceit intended to lead us astray! Your toxic generosity is not welcome here!

Yours with the greatest sincerity,
DV

~~~

Ok, now this is where I'm going to try my best to show why you all should be voting for CarbonFiber (I'll probably even include a section for his scumbuddies because I wouldn't want to dsicriminate by pandering solely to the town niche market!).

I may be overly pessimistic, but I do predict a noose tightening around our necks. Avoiding that would be nice, but I assure you all that I will not be going out without a bang. Yes scum, it be the time for trembling! And also voting for CarbonFiber as I'll be getting to now!

Part 1: 'If they flip town, lynch/vig us'

So, as the title suggests, this pretty clearly refers to 2355. And, the more I think about it, the more I doubt that this post is possible from CF-town at that time.

Let's do some funky voodoo magic and pretend that CF is town and that we're CF here. We are a miller and we've been waiting a long time to see if RBD was trolling about the miller component of their role. We've decided they probably aren't trolling and we're excited because we're a miller and we don't think there are two millers in the game! Multiple people don't seem to agree that 2 millers is a definite no-no or even that big a deal at all. How do we respond to these concerns?

Well if they flip town, you can lynch/vig us?

I'm pretty sure CF doesn't think 100% that RBD are scum, especially after others point to 2 millers not being very significant, so I think this post isn't something that CF-town would make here, because it would obviously be pretty stupid in CF-town's mind for him to be lynched/vigged if RBD flipped town.

I think it makes a lot of sense as scum though. What better way to show off how convicted and passionate and towntowntown you are by offering to be lynched/vigged if you're wrong.

Oh CF, you're our hero and we won't lynch/vig you!

cry the townies following RBD's town flip. This scenario may even have been going through CF's mind as he was making the post!

~~

Part 2: Does he even care?

Now as much as CF will tell you that any point I make relating to this supports CF/AP as scum together with AP being the obvious lynch, and that only, I can tell you that there's more!!! *dramatic music*

-As I mentioned, CF at the beginning of day 3 (before the JSU clear) did not give me the impression of actually caring about getting AP lynched. This is weak on its own, but is made stronger when considered with the below.
-He doesn't really try to stop the Cupcake lynch from happening, despite considering Cupcake a strong townread (5712) and claiming earlier in the game to be the type of player that stubbornly derails lynches on townreads (1063). He does say that it was going to be a cupcake lynch anyway, but I don't really buy this as the reason. If he's town then he's obviously invested in the game and I don't feel he would give up so easily here. There's also the potential excuse of it helping sort things out with AP, but it actually doesn't at all (it wasn't really considered to be a 1v1 by anyone but Cupcake and AP), and there's no use of the Cupcake townflip to make an AP lynch easier to achieve Day 4. It would have made a lot more sense here for CF-town to push his other actual scumreads, but scum-CF obviously doesn't because yum cupcake.
-He says that the best strat is to ease up Day 4 (6849, but after the cupcake lynch, which was decided before he could do anything about it, it seems illogical for him to be sitting back).

Now, why does him not caring matter? Because he is giving everyone the impression that he's really into the game and really invested, so if there are points in the game where it really looks like he doesn't care even though he's saying he really really does, then he's probably scum.

Part 3: The Reaction Test

I've said basically the same thing twice already and I'm not going to say it again, but voting for Tammy was scummy, as there was no basis behind it. His justification of the reaction test again, doesn't make sense.

Part 4: Fox/Hound- Obvscum, Confirmed scum, or just scum?

Now I've harped on a lot about how I think CF's scumread on us is suspicious, but I'm totally serious. For some reason, scum love to get my lynched. I may as well be flashing a hot pink neon sign saying:

Is being scum getting you down?
Are you in dire need of a mislynch?
Well if you pressure DV he will freak out and most likely get himself lynched!
Minimum effort, maximum reward!
Get your juicy free mislynchable DV today!

Except I'm pretty determined not to freak out (extensively) here so hah!

Obviously town can misread me and often do contribute to my mislynch, but usually when scum scumread me the reasons are pretty bad and hey what do you know? A lot of CF's reasons for scumreading me are really bad too!

Part 5: Dear CF's (hopefully real?) Scumbuddies

Now, you may think I'm town and that CF is your scumbuddy, but look at CF's posts! He is saying that I'm scum, and so if I'm scum and you're scum then we must be scumbuddies! And he says Penguin and AP are scum too, so they are also your scumbuddies! (Don't worry about AP leaving the wagon, I just used the connection forged by our inner animal beings to send him a telepathic signal to do so) So, the plan is to vote for CF!

~~

Now obviously I do have doubts and there are town CF posts. The strongest doubt for me is probably the first Tammy paranoia thing, which I have a hard time explaining from a scum PoV, but I feel strongly about (most of) what I've posted above and I think CF is scum.

So, vote for CF. Even if you think I'm scum, you can still vote for CF! Just look at how cute the wagon is:

Spoiler: Penguin_Alien

Spoiler: The Fox and the Hound

Even if we are scum, how can you say no to being friends forever?

Also AP you would have been part of the wagon of awesome too if you hadn't been a silly bird but YOU RUINED IT. (All will be forgiven if you vote for CF again though )

But yeah, vote for CarbonFiber and a receive a free

fedora

typically townish item today!

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh wait have I even voted for CF yet?

Vote: CarbonFiber

[The Fox and the Hound]

2) Not caring about getting AP lynched is bullshit. I'm still happy to lynch him now but DV won't vote him. This as good as confirms DV as scum. DV is interested in tying people to AP, not getting him lynched.

No it doesn't and fuck you for saying so. You seem to be under the impression that DV wants to lynch AP; you are mistaken.

3) Justification for the reaction was to get a read on PV and others in the game. DV is incapable of reading or is simply ignoring things. I'd be shocked if he is town here.

This justification has been noted and deemed unworthy. We are under no obligation to believe your counterarguments and/or that they don't come from scum.
-Ceph

[The Fox and the Hound]

Addendum to 2: as far as I know anyway

[The Fox and the Hound]

You can't actually be serious...

If anyone actually thinks DV has a point and want me to respond, tell me that you want a response. I could probably make a response almost ENTIRELY of quotes because the conversation basically going like this:

DV: *makes an argument*
F-16: Discuss it and points out the problem
DV: *makes the same argument again*
F-16 Discusses it again and tells DV to read the thread
DV: *makes the same argument yet again and whines about being an easy mislynch when I'm the leading wagon and not him*

----

Tl;dr

1) At the time I said "vig me if RBD is town," they had claimed miller. I didn't buy that there would be two millers in the game and was right. They probably shouldn't have fake-claimed, and got counterclaimed by the townie with their role.

2) Not caring about getting AP lynched is bullshit. I'm still happy to lynch him now but DV won't vote him.

This as good as confirms DV as scum

. DV is interested in tying people to AP, not getting him lynched.

3) Justification for the reaction was to get a read on PV and others in the game. DV is incapable of reading or is simply ignoring things. I'd be shocked if he is town here.

4) Suspecting DV is not a scumtell especially when he is playing like scum.

How are people believing this?

Apparently I'm not allowed to scumread someone because they responded to it! Ooo, well no chance of ever lynching scum then!

Problem is that none of those 4 points actually counter my points at all, it's ridiculous.

1. Doesn't explain the complete certainty in RBD-scum that lynching/vigging CF in the case of RBD-town would be a reasonable suggestion. The fact that he was right doesn't mean squat.

2. He's still trying to say I'm saying he's scum with AP when that's not what I'm saying at all. There are so many problems with this. 1. If I thought CF was scum with AP based on CF's play it would make so much more sense to lynch CF first. 2. Especially with a clear on AP and probably greater resistance to his lynch. 3. What I'm arguing is that CF doesn't care about getting his scumreads lynched and doesn't completely apply to AP, so he's just throwing crap at me and doesn't actually have a response to my points at all!

3. I've already explained that I don't have a problem with the PV reaction, but that voting Tammy was ridiculous and something that wouldn't come from CF-town. His justification was that he would see who jumped on him for it. Like, really? Go back to my explanations for my thoughts and you'll see that CF is trying to justify it but he can't.

4. I've made it clear that town can suspect me, but suspecting me for terrible reasons is a scumtell when I'm playing nothing like scum (and I'm pretty sure you know it).

This post is just a whole bunch of words and saying bad stuff about me, but CF actually can't counter any of my points at all. 2 is the biggest ??? because it makes no sense that I'd want to lynch AP over him even if I was saying they're the scumteam, which I'm not even doing.

Please please please let's lynch CF. I don't think I've been sure like this in a long time.

[The Fox and the Hound]

PV, please read my other posting on the CF scumread, where I actually explain what I think.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh, so "consolidate our efforts" is just a euphemism, for a moment there I thought anyone was still interested in figuring out our alignment

How silly of me

[The Fox and the Hound]

Misrepresenting posts and even after it is explained to him

Yeah, it's totally impossible that your explanation is not believable

Dunno what to make of the attempted strongarm that's going on right now, I think DV still thinks jsu is town? Not that anyone is really reading our posts anymore apparently

If anyone in this town is still interested in winning now would be a great time to wake up and smell the fucking roses

-Ceph

[The Fox and the Hound]

You planning on substantiating that, or do you think quoting a post and saying "this is scummy" is a good argument? Are you trying to do a mastin impression or something?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Tammy, stop giving up

We need you

[The Fox and the Hound]

Being treated this way is possibly the most frustrating thing that can happen in a game of mafia.

CF is blatantly scum. I don't know what to say to anyone who can't see that right now. The stupid fucking appeal to everyone mastin impression posts make me want to actually stab someone.

I can't tell if I want to stop playing mafia, or just avoid certain people, a break is certainly in order either way, but this game has been pretty brutal... I guess on some level I know my life will be overall better when I'm done with it but that somehow isn't enough to make me want to be :/

I'd love to see CF get lynched tomorrow when he pulls a fake emotional breakdown over being wrong about us even if we ultimately lose anyway

[The Fox and the Hound]

Stop.

Stop trying to simultaneously play the victim and gloat about how you're going to get us lynched. That doesn't even make sense.

Stop accusing DV of things he didn't do.

And most of all, just stop fucking talking to me.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Are you having reading comprehension issues, or are you just enjoying your ability to exude fake righteousness so much that you can't honor a simple request

I guess this is supposed to help contribute to your future fake breakdown or something

I'm pretty much permanently done with anyone who falls for your shit tomorrow

[The Fox and the Hound]

Oh, yeah, let's pretend like there is any chance we're not getting lynched, that sounds like great fun

It makes plenty of fucking sense, we have zero influence.

PS try reading 7603 again and then go away

Or keep talking if you want but I promise you I can and will get more unpleasant than I already have

[The Fox and the Hound]

because somewhere deep inside my soul, behind the layers of shy and awkward, is a raging bitchy drama queen who can't resist a fight

this is what mafia has taught me about myself

[The Fox and the Hound]

Well look at that, you managed to make a post I completely 100% agree with to the point that I could have written it myself if there were just a few more expletives thrown in

[The Fox and the Hound]

You claim there's a 2/3 chance of lynching scum as long as one stays within that group, and yet you also insist that we have to be the lynch and no one else will do, because that makes so much sense

Whatever I should be asleep

[The Fox and the Hound]

Present and/or accounted for, sir.

I have a harebrained theory that's been growing in my mind over the time the site was down, but I'll refrain until we're actually playing.
-Ceph

[The Fox and the Hound]

Okay, nope, looks like I have to just lay out my theory and hope someone pays attention.

I think there must be something to Tammy's concern that scum can end the game. I think the scumteam is CF, magenta, PA, and someone else. That's the only way CF could be pushing us the way he has today-- he isn't worried about blowback tomorrow because there won't be a tomorrow, and we're being pushed over the much easier lynch of magenta because magenta is scum. PA probably gave Tammy some kind of delayed death, like a poisoner or something. I can't come up with another way CF would do something this ridiculous as scum, so that's what I'm going with.

Anyone not concerned with how this day has developed needs to reexamine their thought process. Most notably 7640, which reads like a fucking quickhammer opening and probably is? Please help.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Well, this is Ceph. I feel very weird about Nacho, because he looks town sometimes, but he's not doing anything, and he seems to be okay with lynching us. Despite a certain rather salient fuckup, I still expect him to show some pretty major doubt before scumreading me, and he's not even doing it that hard or really trying to interact with us. So, yeah, it's fair to say I have a scumread there still. I don't think Nacho town does this little in a game that appears to be this fucked.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Nacho- probably scum, I guess
Magenta- scum and not even pretending otherwise
Titan- town
Stalin- town
AP- town
CF- don't even ask me right now
JSU- probably town
RG- ???
PV- ???
PA- scum if my theory is correct, though I otherwise would put her in the vicinity of meh

[The Fox and the Hound]

I see CF stepping back lasted all of four seconds. Perhaps his scumbuddies reminded him he needs to lynch us today.

{magenta, foxhound, RG, penguin}

We lynch in that group.

Beli, get the fuck off the miller who knew that the other miller wasn't a miller because he was a miller.

...Or because his fakeclaim was miller.
It baffles me that this is hard for you to come up with.
I really expect you to think less linearly than you have this whole game.

[The Fox and the Hound]

We have not claimed. Claiming makes our role a lot worse.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Miller fakeclaim is bad game design, and I'll have Cabd's head if he put that in this game.

Eh?

PV, why do you change who you seem to want to lynch every other post v.v

[The Fox and the Hound]

Speaking just for myself, at this point yes.

Need to consult the fox though.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Spoiler:

This would be a remarkably accurate representation of me right now, if it weren't for my years of anger management issues as a kid and the regrettable fact that dear falcon probably won't save me from the brink of lynch with true love's kiss. But hey, with Disney's new-found liking for plot twists, anything could happen right?

Sadly though, while many of you seem to be swooning from the illusion that he is as dashing as this:



He is, in fact, AMOS SLADE!!!



Tearing friendships of forever apart!!!!

CF keeps using the fact that I'm calling them scum with AP as a reason to discredit my arguments and call me scum, ignoring the fact that I indicated I didn't think he was necessarily scum with AP in the same post (a strong townread on AP was expressed here) where I initially brought the whole thing up, and despite my continuous explanations of this. There was no change in read on AP. There was no serious accusation that CF was scum with AP (just the thought that it was possible). And there is no reason why he'd be using this as town when it's completely wrong and I've clearly explained so.

If Ceph thinks that you're town, then I'll respectfully back off and revert to the

occasional

frequent passive-aggressive remark, but if he's backing off just because he thinks you won't get lynched (several days before deadline and just after MS is back up) or because he wants to compromise or whatever (with scum!?!?!?!?) then there's no way I'm rolling with that. If I need to, I'll persistently refuse to change targets until I've forced him into submission so that he's posting 'DV is the best. CF is scum' at regular 1-hour intervals. (I know what you're thinking. This is completely unlike me. I'll probably only make it 2-hour intervals).

Yep, that's right. The fox is back. And while others may have undergone some weird premature ageing or something, the tigers have left me with my thirst for falcon blood intact and I'm more in need of it than ever.

Regarding Nacho, I'm waiting for something that will either 95% confirm him as scum or 60% confirm him as town (the percentages are numbers I felt like posting at the time and probably have little basis in reality), so stay tuned!

Also, my personality type apparently keeps changing between ENFP, ENFJ and INFJ! It's weird.

[The Fox and the Hound]

...This is the dumbest thing ever and I no longer have a method or much inclination to try to respond to it. Enjoy losing, I guess?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Yeah, and?

[The Fox and the Hound]

PV, you forgot that magenta exists, not that I blame you

[The Fox and the Hound]

1) DV's response to me suspecting him was the most ridiculously scummy thing in this game. He immediately casts doubt onto his townread of me. Then does a massive "re-evaluation" where he goes back through my initial posts, justifies his townread and then goes through more posts to beautifully show how his read has morphed into a scumread. All this happens right after I push him. It is bullshit. It is a presentation that is made to look good and like a thoughtful townie going back to consider every possibility. It feels extremely unnatural and faked. The timing of it doesn't feel genuine either.

"DV is scum for doing exactly what he would do if he wasn't scum!!!"

Hey Tammy you should stop giving up and help me out here

Magenta, Nacho (despite what DV thinks honestly) and CF are all scum, I will lynch any of them, someone please just lead me in one of those directions

-Ceph

[The Fox and the Hound]

I can't be bothered arguing anymore.

I ask with everything I have for us to lynch CF. If it gets closer to deadline and a CF lynch is obviously not happening then I'll settle for some other not-us lynch (Ceph can choose if this ends up being the case as I've probably embarrassed him enough with my antics), but I can dream.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Jesus fuck, quit attacking us every time we post

[The Fox and the Hound]

[The Fox and the Hound]

I dislike your tactics but I'll live.

Ceph, point out a towngame where someone tried to lead a lynch on you and you resorted to emotional blackmail and personal attacks.

I haven't had a lynch led on me in a rather long time, but you'll be hard pressed to find me reacting this way as any alignment, because rarely have I been harassed quite this effectively

But this isn't the way you talk as town. This reminds me more of Molla's Micro 252 where you showed up upon being called and gave the names of two of my scumreads. Nothing like any of your towngames.

Why not Fox? They are cheekier scumfucks than Magenta and Penguin.

you are the cheekiest scumfuck that ever cheeked a scumfuck

You are seeing what you want to see. FoxHound are attacking me as well but that's okay because they are a townread and I am a scumread. They are also resorting to malicious emotional manipulation which isn't worthy of comment but me calling Ceph an idiot is. Why not just vote me and get it over with?

It's not fucking malicious, it's an honest reaction to what basically amounts to bullying

[The Fox and the Hound]

You really need to take a step back, disregarding both your alignment and mine for the time being, and realize that that actually describes what you are doing perfectly

[The Fox and the Hound]

And by the way, even assuming you're scum, I have no intention of playing with you again as a result

[The Fox and the Hound]

Hey CF remember 169 and how scum did this exact thing to me and it worked

I think you do

[The Fox and the Hound]

You wanted a town game where I got this upset, look no further than the one you fucking played

[The Fox and the Hound]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5595112
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5595071

Yeah you're pretty much just wrong

W/e,
UNVOTE:

I don't want to lynch Fox/Hound anymore. I doubt Ceph would say what he did as scum and he actually winds up scum here, I won't be congratulating him at endgame.

...soooo you've been antagonizing me for no reason for the last few posts then? why do you get to change your mind at the drop of a hat again, sorry i forget amidst this game literally killing me mostly because of you

[The Fox and the Hound]

It's not bullshit

What I meant was- how long have you been thinking I might be town and posting rage at me anyway?

Mm, that fight with Bulba was one of the most fun times I've ever had in a mafia game. I forget exactly why it was that he knew I was scum on account of being my scumbuddy in a different game, I think I was just playing the same way in both games, but I knew he knew it and I really enjoyed watching him not be able to reference the ongoing game >.>

[The Fox and the Hound]

The only suspicion I've taken as personal attack was yours, because it was one (and continues to be, you're still doing it...)

I want to vote Nacho but I wish someone other than you was telling me to do it. I guess bussing happens.
I feel bad ignoring DV but he's not been very communicative lately :S

DV, if you see this remind me to chat with you about something role related and why it makes me feel like the below is something we just have to do at this point
VOTE: nacho

p-edit: tammy we are not lynching you, lynching scum would solve the problem so we should just do that instead

[The Fox and the Hound]

^still more personal attacks

are you even capable of stopping

[The Fox and the Hound]

I at least haven't descended to your level

I guess that's the best I can expect from you.

can you even hear yourself

[The Fox and the Hound]

whatever though i'm leaving have fun kids

[The Fox and the Hound]

I felt you and DV continuing to poke at it long after it was over was irritating. It was something that was resolved a while before either of you logged on and obviously wasn't something I want to continue discussing nor did I want your opinion about it. It didn't involve you and it is not something you are going to develop any sort of read out of. I'll assume you had the best of intentions when you quoted posts saying "I still think you are town but etc" as if it would benefit the town but I certainly don't see it that way. It is not an argument that you or DV needed to get involved in and it isn't helping at all nor is DV making a quote-stripe asking for elaboration. In general, getting in the middle of a conflict to take a side is rarely helpful and I never at any point was thankful that you or DV stepped in and never thought that either of you trying to make sense of it was the least bit beneficial and it would have been better if you had not commented at all. If you are town, I feel it is best to move on.

I can apologize for that to some degree. Wandering into conversations I don't belong in and commenting on things that I should probably let be are among my issues as a player. Don't think I'm taking my eye off you but there is definitely at least one much better lynch right now.

Also, do you think it's a coincidence that Nacho directed the day-1 lynch onto Orc, of all the lurkers?

No?

I didn't think so either.

VOTE: Magenta

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to come in and say. Nacho's actions at the end of day 1 suddenly make all kinds of sense. I need to review his posts as well for connections, but that's mostly to hunt down the last two because there is no way magenta is town. I do agree with what someone said about Nacho probably thinking his team is in a good spot, because I saw Casso and I know he can not get lynched when he wants to not get lynched.

If you actually think there's a snails chance in hell I'm scum, I just really don't know what to say, but you've lost bragging rights forever.

I'm saying that it's a possibility from a theory perspective (i.e., you aren't confirmed town the way CF/AP/Beli are)

Fair.

Although I'm concerned one of the confirmed towns may not be and that's why nacho didn't seem to care about being lynched.

This possibility should not be entirely discarded, but we don't need to worry about it yet.

VOTE: magenta

[The Fox and the Hound]

Also, do you think it's a coincidence that Nacho directed the day-1 lynch onto Orc, of all the lurkers?

No?

I didn't think so either.

VOTE: Magenta

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to come in and say. Nacho's actions at the end of day 1 suddenly make all kinds of sense. I need to review his posts as well for connections, but that's mostly to hunt down the last two because there is no way magenta is town. I do agree with what someone said about Nacho probably thinking his team is in a good spot, because I saw Casso and I know he can not get lynched when he wants to not get lynched.
I said exactly that a few posts earlier.

Also, for the first time, I found something in this game to be happy about. I never figured we'd be able to lynch scum with the rate we were going but we did and that's awesome and I think even if we lose, we are going to go down fighting and not roll over and give scum a perfect win.

My biggest suspect right now is Magenta the great.

1) Nacho's push on Orc D1 smelled so much like a bus especially since Orc could only self-govern D1.

2) Mara's lack of paranoia over Nacho was weird as well as her lack of interactions with other players who read Nacho better in NY169.

So, I wonder why you commented on JSU's post as opposed to mine. The paranoid part of me makes me think you did it because you didn't want to agree with me since you need to keep me as a viable mislynch after the Magenta lynch. This is sort of what I was referring to with you being positional and I don't know if it just your playstyle to be that way and whether you do it as town. Was it intentional on your part to skip over my post?

Jeez louise man. Not really. I saw yours, multiquoted yours, saw JSU's too and added that, was posting and thought the latter post expressed what I wanted to say more succinctly.

We will claim if there's a consensus for it.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I need to have a long think about things and now is not the time.

-DV

[The Fox and the Hound]

But but changing accounts is mildly annoying

We're Tenebrae, a shitty flavor (well, rolename, I guess) cop.
N1: Yggdra Union- evolving fonic JOAT (no idea why fonic isn't in their flip)
N2: RG- Artist (no, I have no idea what that is, that's why we're shitty)
N3: CF, we were blocked
N4: PV, guess what? Yeah. Our ability did succeed though since someone asked.

We're pretty bad once we've claimed, since now scum know that those rolename things are important. Now that we're out I may as well admit that we can't be roleblocked by children, so presumably that was targeted at Nacho? It will now be apparent that we don't actually need to be blocked at all so no reason to hide that bit anymore.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Beast. Symphonia.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I believe the citizen thing is just a flavorful way of describing your game of origin

[The Fox and the Hound]

I forget if this is even a thing but assuming we have a gender Tenebrae is certainly male

[The Fox and the Hound]

Yep, we're male

[The Fox and the Hound]

I want to get the massclaim details sorted out, but at the moment I can say that I'm happy with where our vote is.

This weekend is when I'll really be able to get stuck into things (this'll probably be more reading and reflecting than anything else though). Sorry for my lack of involvement so far.

-DV

[The Fox and the Hound]

I don't think this makes even the slightest bit of difference to the situation, but technically speaking we don't know why our role didn't work. Blocked was just an assumption on my part.

My first inclination in situations like this, for some reason, is usually to figure out how both parties can be town. It doesn't feel possible here, though... Last time I had a situation like this I mishandled it terribly.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Whoever indicated that I should be here, I am sorta V/LA-ish right now, that's why I'm not all up in this shit. Not enough so that I felt the need to declare it, but all the same. I will be more here on Monday.

As for my brief take, I'm not sure what needs saying. It looks like a direct CC. The reason I want to find a way for it to be town is because I don't see why they would CC us as scum when it's not lylo, unless they are scum with magenta. Somewhere they would have to think they're getting a mislynch other than us; perhaps they think trading 1/1 is more likely to work now than getting us lynched would be in lylo (I happen to agree with them), and they're hoping to mislynch...probably PA, in that event?... after us.

That or we're the last necessary mislynch and Tammy's thing is still somehow death. In which event I'd be forced to argue the scumteam as RG/PA/magenta.

I want to lynch RG, naturally; FMPOV they are very likely to be scum. And I almost have to suppose that they're scum because blah blah Shaheed's Law blah (if they are town, when one of us is lynched the other will certainly be lynched the following day, and we're totally screwed-- so I don't think that scenario is even worth considering?)

[The Fox and the Hound]

So I started that post with the idea that I should consider how RG could be town, and by the time I finished writing it I realized that considering that idea is actually just kind of stupid. If he is and he's lynched today, it would be very very easy for scum to lynch us after that, so it's basically a pointless exercise.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ok, I've spent what time I could get today reading and I have a pretty decent idea of what I think now, not that I actually feel confident in anything but still.

Regarding RG, I'm not with Ceph in thinking that they're scum because of their claim. I don't think it's scummy for someone with a not-straightforward role result to become more sure of it over time and I think there's definitely enough potential for something to have happened that makes their claim genuine. I still think it's possible for them to be scum, but I don't the claim makes it especially likely.

I am, however, in agreement with Ceph about Magenta being a good lynch and I'm happy going with that.

[The Fox and the Hound]

CF, I investigated you last night successfully. Could you explain the text on your miller ability a little more carefully?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ah, actually, never mind. Your claim lines up, I got the result "Replica" which is what you claimed as a name.

Is it weird that I think the neighborizer ability not being in any way even hinted at to me almost clears CF? Like, I don't see why he would be listed as a "Mafia Replica" in his role PM with nothing else, that's just sort of stupid.

P-edit: yep.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Like the only way I would think that would work if he was somehow a vanilla goon and the neighborizing ability was somehow factional? Which seems kinda unlikely?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Also, there's the fact that the day 1 positionality put Tammy in the center of just about everything with FoxHound buddying it hardcore in a way that looks suspect.

This has never been a thing and still isn't.

[The Fox and the Hound]

So, here's what I'm thinking (most of it's pretty obvious, but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway!)

I don't think any of Titan, JSU, CF, AP make much sense at all as scum, but with the only scum possibilities left being PA and RG, something's obviously up. In the first group of four, I'm leaning towards AP being the scum, but for now I want to lynch PA or RG and I don't really care which. The chances of more than one scum being in that first group is like !!! and yeah no I don't think I'm going to consider it. JSU/AP could work but I really don't think JSU is scum based on play so there's that.

If Ceph has a particular inclination between RG and PA then he can go wherever his heart leads him.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I actually do have an inclination. Fancy that.

VOTE: RG

I'm torn on the third scum being JSU or AP with CF being a pretty distant third. Hopefully I'll have some time to figure that out.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Well, I really hope you're somehow scum, because if you aren't that's probably game.

Otherwise, there isn't going to be a tomorrow.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Can you explain to me why JSU is town for their play?

The Bro post that is so often mentioned is certainly a significant part of it. It has been said that the emotions aren't very alignment-relevant but imo they pretty clearly are, and think it's unlikely faked.

Also, if you're town then they're probably the only reason you haven't been lynched yet, so there's that.

I also thought that the way their claim matched up with previous remarks on their role in a 'not perfect but makes total sense' way, is something very likely to come from town and not very likely from scum.

My understanding is that your stance is that RG is 1v1-ing you from yesterday. Why are you trying to derail that supposed 1v1 onto me?

That was Ceph, not me. I think I pretty clearly indicated the opposite.

~~

All I can say is that we're town. I understand that we're one of the few not conf/semi-conf town remaining and hey, I'd probably be suspecting us too! (I still think I'd probably see how some of my posts were very likely town-me, but there could easily be bias factoring into that and there's no way I wouldn't be paranoid).

What I do know though, is that lynching us will result in town's loss, and it would be negligent of me to not at least try and change this. I have no idea how to do this. I've already been more crazy than I'm comfortable with this game (I'm sorry to everyone for that, especially Ceph) so I'm not going to do what has probably become my signature DV-approaches-lynch freak-out. I can't change our role to an innocent child instantaneously and confirm ourselves as town. My plan at the moment (I'm really just making this up as I go along) is to just keep talking and hope that in doing so, maybe something will click. I don't know.

I don't know how to make people townread me in a way that's not exactly what I'd do as scum (and even the success rate of that isn't terribly great), but if I were to try, I'd say to look at my posts (I don't know how Ceph's posting here compares to his town or scum play so I'm going to be totally self-consumed for this post). I do think that I have been pretty typical of town-me here, and very unlike me as scum. I don't think anyone can argue that I haven't been completely all-over-the-place here, and while I'm certainly not proud of this fact, I think it is completely unlike me as scum. While I do try to replicate my town meta as scum, I don't think I would be able to (nor would I actually want to) replicate all-over-the-place-ness to the extent that I've been all-over-the-place (sorry I can't think of a better word right now) here. There are probably other things, but this is what first comes to my mind and I think it's probably the most key difference. I'm not here all that often nowadays, but I'm happy to talk with anyone that wants to and whatever else I guess.

-DV

And yeah! LYNCH PA OR RG OR BASICALLY ANYONE BUT US!!!

[The Fox and the Hound]

So you guys think PA/RG/ and who would you speculate is scum slot 3? Supposedly you think BRO is still town. CF?

DV thinks that, I'm not sure I do. I could see any non Tammy player being the third, but I'll probably try to effort and give an opinion on it if today looks like it has a chance of going right, since I'll probably die tonight?

[The Fox and the Hound]

Is more time really going to help, though? I'd rather get it over with one way or the other.

[The Fox and the Hound]

mastin, when you call everyone scum you're bound to get everyone right eventually