You could be Anyone IV - GAME OVER

[Extrapolated Eagle]

MOHIS!

Unfortunately I have to go to work in a minute, but if you'd like to talk to me about errant TSO and rm, that would be super cool and I'll defs get back to you first thing when I get off.

TSO is TSO, no read from him right now. He is sitting in my Null pile.
Errant is town, but everytime I have thought Errant was town was actually scum, so skeptical town there.
Randommidget I think is town though. Mostly meta reasons on that.

Out of these three gun-to-your-head who would you lynch today?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

holy cow you guys have been active. Oh wait, it's TSO. Means I don't have to read any of it. Awesome!

Also TSO your 322 posts only counts as 32.2. Since you spam post like no tomorrow.

So, the scumpool is Errant/random/EE/IAI/inte, I guess?

Eagle, i am quite sure that i explicitly responded to your elyse question.
I didnt care for your read.

The one thing preventing me from voting aneninen is the clotilde gambit because ultimately that was really game-solvy.
Im happy with my mohis vote after reading the past 20-odd pages.

Ok, cool. So you're saying you were never interested in the Elyse wagon?

That would be awesome if you could confirm this for me because I can quote where you showed otherwise and then we can confirm your lynch today after adding lynch all liars to the reasons you're scum.

PV talk to me. How about lynching errant today?

I'll look at him tomorrow.

He gave a reads list earlier, which I like. Glanced at day1 stuff, but not drawing any conclusions from it.

ISOed Klingon and Errant together. Some back and forth, but didn't seem overly adversarial.

However, Errant did hammer Klingon with 9 days left in the day. And didn't seem to try to gain any towncredit from the hammer or the flip.

Probably not my first choice for lynch today.

Mmm. Look at his interest in the Elyse wagon when Klingon becomes viable lynch. And then his sudden forgetting of the topic. Also watch how is reads on people flip back and forth literally from post to post.

Also add in that he.didn't try to take town cred and you ha r lurker scum who don't want the attention.

I will answer the question that were given to me (I read them all but I am kinda busy to quote all of them right now) tomorrow morning

but I need a few things to know about from Both Varsoon and TSO to start filtering people in and stuff

1- Can you list your biggest (2-3) town and scum reads with reasons? I'd like to compare between reasons and my iso-ing and see if I get anything interesting/etc

I had a few more questions but i cant remeber. its quite late in the night

-Z

Ok. Errant is my number one scum read. After that TSO and random. Errant because he's buddies people- he called spiff town for no reason and his friends appear out of thin air. Just town reads whenever convenient. He also showed interest in Elyse as counter wagon to Klingon(who flipped scum) but his interest last an entire post and then it disappeared into thin air after people started getting called out for it. His reads day one flipped back and forth literally in back to back posts and they flipped seemingly depending on who it looked like was under pressure. Yes also taken no strong stances on really anything and has lurked like shot since d1 ended.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh craps I forgot my other reads. Random has been in an interesting spot. He seems to state something that is actually untrue about the game mechanics on multiple occasions which is weird for me. He's also kind of WIFOM y everywhere. Few stances, although I did kinda like the stance he did take. I want to drag this day out before lynching him.

Tso is scum because he somehow hasn't noticed my question about whether or not him having bad reads makes him scum based on a self meta even though I've brought it up multiple times. Yes also pushed lynches on town, and quick lynched at that, both of them. He is actually hunting lurkers now and keeps talking about guessing between one of three but also mentions that if his guess is wrong town can't afford to do it twice. So he admits he's wasting a town lynch if he's wrong. He also seems to not really look for scum. He's not defeated or looking at his reads and where he was wrong. He is avoiding questions about errant and has done so since d3. He isn't avidly and openly defending anyone. But I can quote where he's directed people away from wanting to lynch actually scummy players. He spam posts his thoughts in the thread and runs over town. Which isn't necessarily scummy, it's just anti town. Je has also misrepped and blatantly lied about me on a couple occasions and refuses to acknowledge points where he's wrong, he just straight up ignores them. Tl;dr he wants to waste town Lynch on lurkers and not willing to consider other places.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Town reads: aneninen because he still has his wits about him and he's not associated with anyone, Titus because conftown, Elyse because she's paying attention and I love her thoughts at this point. And random because I can see where hea coming from and I've agreed with him a lot this game.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@errant what on earth? I've been saying I'm suspicious of you since the end of day one. And kept up with it. I've mentioned it at least once a day. Also put my vote on you. But I've been overrun by Titus and tso. I can quote the posts. Dont make this up.

And my point about the hammer was actually that pvs reason for not voting you (hammering and not grabbing cred) was WIFOM and could go either way. Not confbias.

And I have no idea what you're talking about spifflop for.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh ok. Yeah I'm a bit otherwise occupied atm. But I'll get back to this later with cases and quoting and stuff.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I do. I'm mixed on random. Really mixed.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Which is why I posted both sides of my thoughts on him.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I get the feeling some of my day one reads are going to make me bitter after the game is over.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Shiro give me a list of reasons why.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Anen why no belief in the errant wagon?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: Eagle

Sheeping cuz conftown lols.

I will lead when my confidence returns.

Your confidence can wane?

WHAT!?!?!?!?
#DoesNotCompute

Lol.

Sheep the guy who keeps quicklynching town though? Strange to me. Ok.

TSO is dos (dumb or scum) and I give people benefit of the doubt so he's primary target after we get errant.

Actually I was building case on him and I started getting town vibes. I need to take another look at this. I so don't want to though. Ugh.

PEdit: I defended itlepip. Never in the entire game did I call him scum. I got off spifflop wagon when I realized it was probably shit. I sheeped alchemist day three after seeming confscum because hinder death, but I ignored him day one and called shiro scum for pushing him to avoid the Klingon wagon. So... How do I fit that bill?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Honestly errant I did like your reads list. And I scum read you. Simultaneously. Your reads did make me question a little bit, but since when do scum only make scummy posts?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

It just means that your hard scum reads (which there weren't many of, btw) are probably town.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Invalidate my premises, and my confidence wanes.

Yup. I still think scum piled on Spifflop and itlepipitlepip and alchemist. EE fits that bill.

PV also fits due to vote pattern.

PEdit: I defended itlepip. Never in the entire game did I call him scum. I got off spifflop wagon when I realized it was probably shit. I sheeped alchemist day three after seeming confscum because hinder death, but I ignored him day one and called shiro scum for pushing him to avoid the Klingon wagon. So... How do I fit that bill?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ugh I screwed up that quote. MOHIS didn't say that.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Since a MOHIS lynch unfortunately seems to not be happening, I would be fine with VOTE: random

Sorry Errant, I want to get lynched to ;(

That sentiment is shared.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

*sigh*

Can we make up our minds? Gwen didn't hide behind me. Maybe hid behind random. I don't know. I do know that it's a bit ridiculous that there are people who are taking the time to read tso s posts and thinking they're going to get something worth reading out of them.

TSO in going to say it outright. You just pushed quicklynches on town twice. Instead of backing off, you demanded people help you waste one of two lynches (your words) on lurkers. Now you're telling people that Gwen definitely for sure hid, but you don't know who she hid behind. Honestly it's completely possible she didn't hide at all. You're either a fucking moron who thinks way too highly of himself because he managed to get a few town reads right day one that a bunch of other people(including myself) shared with you. That's correct, I have read the same amount of people correctly as you have at the time of their lynch. Unless you're counting my day one read on alchemists in which case I'm one ahead of you.
Or you're scum. I hope from your sad amount of arrogance that you actually have some decent play to back it up. So I'm going to go with scum.

VOTE: TSO

The lynch pool is me or him today as far as I'm concerned unless he does something super convincing. Either way I don't have to pretend to deal with him anymore.

anyone that needs more proof that tso is scum, ask him how he knows that scum only needs two more days before they win

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE I still think youre town because of your d1 play. But that is in no way a case on tso.

I stated my case on tso earlier. The big part is I don't want to deal with him anymore and I don't want to replace out.

Ee do you agree that if sg hid, that the hiding target should be in the lynchpool?

sg most likely hid behind alchemist. If she did not hide behind the person she obviously crumbed, then it is silly to think that the person is the second person she crumbled. Follow that logic and then you just keep lynching people until scum wins. Since its not the person she obviously crumbled, we must come to the solution that she did not crumb it well and give up, because otherwise we'll flip random (and he'll maybe flip town) and then everyone will decide that oh it must have been her third possible crumb and lynch me and then scum win. (Supposing town has two days left according to tso)

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So really you see the whole argument that the lynch pool between me and random is shit. You just keep following that trail trying to guess who she actually hid behind.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I apologize for the language. And the harsh comments. I'm sick of dealing with this. TSO you post too much and you're too sure of yourself and it's hurting town. Please just calm down and take some time to rethink things.

We were really sure that alchemist was the person Gwen hid behind yesterday. So much so that we shot people down for opposing other people. So now it is silly to start trying to guess between other people.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

TSO said two days until scum kills the active town players, not until they win.

Also, eagle, if the lynch was between you and TSO I would vote for you.

Be better than playing any longer with tso.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I cannot believe that the prevailing view of Gwen at the moment is that she didn't hide. This is, well, remarkable, to put it politely.

Yes but fortunately we don't lynch based on your foolish whims and stubborn beliefs. And if it wasn't random who she hid behind tomorrow it would definitely be someone else and no one else is an acceptable lynch.

EE's vote on me is brilliant, though. There's not even a scumread in it, it's just "I don't like him so I will vote him". Wow. How townplay. So accurate. Wow. Much scum caught. Very clever.

The funny thing is that TSO reads less of the thread than the lurkers he yells at and calls out for doing so- and its easier for him to read than anyone else since half of the posts are his spammy contributions.

Here's the scum read on you, btw, in case you do feel like reading the thread someday:

Tso is scum because he somehow hasn't noticed my question about whether or not him having bad reads makes him scum based on a self meta even though I've brought it up multiple times. Yes also pushed lynches on town, and quick lynched at that, both of them. He is actually hunting lurkers now and keeps talking about guessing between one of three but also mentions that if his guess is wrong town can't afford to do it twice. So he admits he's wasting a town lynch if he's wrong. He also seems to not really look for scum. He's not defeated or looking at his reads and where he was wrong. He is avoiding questions about errant and has done so since d3. He isn't avidly and openly defending anyone. But I can quote where he's directed people away from wanting to lynch actually scummy players. He spam posts his thoughts in the thread and runs over town. Which isn't necessarily scummy, it's just anti town. Je has also misrepped and blatantly lied about me on a couple occasions and refuses to acknowledge points where he's wrong, he just straight up ignores them. Tl;dr he wants to waste town Lynch on lurkers and not willing to consider other places.

Also my other post.
Yes, DoS (Dumb or Scum) is a scum argument, unless you want to plead dumb in which case we label you VI and ignore you the rest if the game. Are you claiming VI?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm sorry? I'm not the one yelling at lurkers for not posting or reading.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

If you want to condone awful play, good for you!

I don't. Which is why I highly suggest you replace out.

Random immediately jumping on TSO once there was an iota of support is so scummy.

Is it? I don't think it's alignment indicative unless tso flips scum, in which case it clears random for me. That said, let's keep discussion to why you want to lynch me or why you want to lynch tso today, because I'd really like to keep that the lynch pool.

@aneninen please state why TSO is town for you. Again, me or him today please, I'm serious about this.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Eagle, part of the reason I don't want to lynch you is your TSO crusade. I don't think TSO is scum but I think you are pretty fearless for continuing to pursue it after TSO has shut you down. I'm not ruling out that you're scum, but I don't think I want to lynch you.

Random on the other hand only jumped on when he knew he had other people so he wouldn't stick out.

If random has been trying not to stick out he's been doing a pretty poor job of it.

If TSO usually plays like this as town, fine. Someone tell me and I'll replace out. He's ridiculously bad for town and his play is shittier than the inside of a porta potty after all the construction workers have eaten haribo sugar free gummy bears: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/reviews/B008JELLCA. Honestly it would be a bit more bearable if he didn't force himself all over everything and spam the thread to high heaven so you couldn't easily ignore him.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah, we get it. You think I'm shit. Will there ever come a stage where you'll shut the fuck up?

One must wonder the same about you, and has asked you on multiple occasions. One wonders if TSO simply has a sad lack of self awareness.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Not AtE. Does he play like this as town? I don't want to be in the same game or associated with a player like him. At all. Not interested. I can understand bad, but bad, telling everyone else they're bad, talking about how good you are, and then spamming the thread and forcing yourself down other people's throats as well as ridiculously anti-town is not acceptable town play from anyone that I won't put up with.

So. Does he usually play like this as town?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

His aggressivenes is not an alignment tell.

Ok, thanks.

@mod I hate to say this, but I'm going to need to replace out

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I come home to a constant stream of posts that yell at people, disrespect people, run over people, and call them morons. I can handle anger. Frustration. Mistakes. Pooor logic. All of these things happen in a mafia game and are understandable. I actually kind of enjoy it sometimes, I try to learn to get better at dealing with people and communicating with people through it. But TSO I refuse to try to deal with anymore. He is so certain he is right that he won't back off. I've tried backing off with him and it doesn't work. The moment anyone disagrees with him he yells at them and calls them morons. When most people have misunderstandings or frustrations with people and such it's targetted at people because they did something. With TSO he actually thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a moron. I feel incapable of getting anything done, of moving anywhere in the thread. I post something and instead of being able to discuss anything with anyone or try to work through anything, I am bombarded with incessant posts about how stupid I am, about how this isn't a newbie game anymore and I should play better, when his play is, IMO worse than mine. I recognize there are problems with my play and that I need to work on things. That I'm not perfect. He doesn't. Hes not willing to quiet down so I can try and reread either. Multiple pages get added every day and at least a third of the posts are often TSOs.

I'm sorry. I've never replaced out of a game before and I've always looked down on people who did (admittedly). But I cannot do this anymore. It's like TSO is the only player in the game. I feel like I can't even play at all.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Fuck off, TSO. I'm serious. I wouldn't have pushed so hard for your lynch today if I hadn't gotten to the point where I won't play with you anymore and I didn't want to replace out.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Fuck off, TSO. I'm serious. I wouldn't have pushed so hard for your lynch today if I hadn't gotten to the point where I won't play with you anymore and I didn't want to replace out.

wait. so part of your decision to push TSO was because you didn't want to play with him anymore?

The plan was to lynch you. Then when you flipped scum, people would see that tso is probably scum as well and lynch him. It didn't make me whant him lynched, it made me want him lynched now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And I'm sorry, random. After I realized how illogical the lynch pool of me and you was I realized you were probably town. I should have stayed, but you saw how he reacted. He just assumed it was because of the game because he could never make a mistake.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

*sigh*

I've been talking some things over with irl people I know who I rather respect (not about the game-they don't even know what mafia is I bet, but other things) and one of them sent me a really stern message a couple minutes ago about quitting things and getting over myself and not making rash decisions.

So,

I apologize for the drama in the thread. @mod, if it would be easier for you, I'll just stay in the game.

I'm going to need time though, if the mod doesn't decide to replace me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

It's good that you've decided to stay; I still think you're scum though.

That's acceptable.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So the sg crumb logic is still shut logic. And tomorrow it will

have

to be someone else because that's obviously who she hid behind d2.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

VOTE: Extrapolated Eagle

It makes sense that there's one scum between him and random.

Why?

Still pushing tso or ep, btw.
Shiro might be scum, too

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That's quite the cherry picked post you've got there, IAI. The only people that have flipped that I called scum legitimately were AJ and spifflop. I called spiff town by end of d1. I also called AJ town early d1. I think not suspecting people is bad. You also managed to miss the posts after those posts where people questioned those reads. Is that your argument against me? It's pretty bad, IMO.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Are you forgetting ur fos of alch? Or how you said dapper might be strong.

My argument isn't just bad reasons, but u flip flip on ur town/null read throughout the day while pushing other wagons (at least 4 of which we know are town now), and then end of day after u bus u start putting connections with Klingon if she flips scum. Quite the 180 wouldn't u say?

Um. What? I accused shiro of pushing alchemist as a counter wagon to Klingon at the end of the day. And yes, I have said everyone MIGHT be scum. Because they might. Also simply the fact that I don't know other people's roles is an argument that I'm town, not that I'm scum.

And like I've said multiple times, Klingon was scummy to me, but I didn't like the way pressure was applied to her- there was no room for considering her a possible town read.

Also a LOT of people thought alvh was scum. I was and always have been to my knowledge the person whi read dapper as town strongest.

So because of the fact that I doubted people I'm scum? And anyone who thinks a town player might be scummy is scum? Because then you should be on the TSO wagon for the two quicklynches on town, because to push a quicklynch is yo claim you are so certain of your read no further consideration is required. I have NEVER been at this place except that I was certain dapper is town.

So ummm... What are you smoking, bruh?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I have no time now.
Is there any idea whom I should sheep?

I'm tempted to say innocent need a a lynch for the sudden excitement and push near the end of the game as well as his shitty ass argument that is literally a cherry picking of every time I doubted someone's towniness on day one.

But I'm still saying alch or TSO. Innocent moves way up because he literally cherry picked posts out from right before posts where I explained a little more or taken out of context.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

*ep not alch :/ auto correct every time.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Alright. I took some time to calm down and think things over.

My mind is going a little all over the place right now because random being doc and protecting TSO and then voting for him doesn't make too much sense in my opinion. But...

TSO thinking I wanted to replace out because I'm scum who thinks I can't win the game because I can't get him voted fits with the mindset of arrogant town, imo. So for now he's a town read.

Titus and is conftown and I'm not quite sure why she hasn't been NKd yet. Maybe because scum haven't seen her as pushing town in the right direction. Or they were afraid doc would protect her.

Random is probably town. It's interesting to find out that TSO hasn't been targeted yet by scum but maybe it's because he keeps pushing quicklynches on town and repeatedly runs over everyone else.

MOHIS is interesting. I like that he's been more active and I don't want to scare him out of continuing that streak. I think maybe town after that hammer yesterday and his frustration, but I would like some scum reads from him.

Innocent might be town just trying to push us in a direction to get us moving again, so town again there maybe. His argument was bad but it got discussion up again I think in a way.

I agree with TSO that varsoon is probably vig who's kind of just given up after hitting town twice? Something like that.

Which leaves me with errant and Elyse are probably scum. ZZZX as well. Errant acknowledged that the random or eagle pool was a piece of craps and tried to push it anyways. All three seem kind of ehhh on things and trying hard not to stand out.

Shio is still kind of nullish, but I'm leaning scum again on her.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh, I almost forgot

VOTE: Errant Parabola

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also the wagon forming on me is bad. I'm Indiana Jones. I won't role claim yet, because I think that's a bad idea. I do want to say I'm sorry, random. I feel like I failed you earlier by doubting my town read on you. There are a lot of things that just don't make sense this game, that I don't know that we can really explain simply- like why Titus responded the way she did to being conftown read. Or what happened with SG. Or a lit of the interactions between certain players.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE was willing to consider Alchemist as town D2 when I raised the possibility of Alch being the D1 counterwagon. That's not mislynching logic.
EE's D1 play was pretty town in my opinion.
EE can you summarize your D3 opinion of Alchemist?

I thought sg hid behind him which would make him confscum. I thought some of the things he did were suspicious up to and before day 3 but town acts suspicious all the time.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ep, Elyse, and ZZZX

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Not Elyse.

And probably not EP either.

We'll vig ZZZX tonight, at any rate, so that's one problem solved.

Yep. Then I'm a great lynch. I'm sorry to whoever put me here . You're right, my life was wonderful before. Let me go back! I'm sorry! I promise I won't ever take not playing this game for granted ever again!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Someone pinch me and wake me up!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ep, Elyse, and ZZZX

Are you scumreading me now?

Yes.

aneninen, another, less game-related question: I was checking the newbie game queue and i could swear that you made a post that I remember you making in this game...
am i going crazy?

He made it by accident and requested it removed later.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

dont vig errant.

Who are your scum reads?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Not claiming. Lynch me if you'd like. Actually tempted to self hammer. I'll be glad to be out of this game. Town hall is lead by DoS and I'm tired of putting up with it. In a smaller game people wouldn't have gotten away with the stuff they did but it's too big and there's too Mich for me to call tso out on all of his bs, so I'm just kind of dumb.

It will feel good to be out, though.

I'm not claiming, someone can hammer if they'd like.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also is it possible that alch was sk and then his alignment changed or something like that?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Out of curiosity, why don't you want to claim?

I'm sorry, I'd just prefer not to answer this.

EE, no it is not possible. take a look at the theme game moderator signup

Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? [No]

Oh, ok.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm sorry, I'd just prefer not to answer this.

Got it. That makes me drastically less confident in my townread of you. Seriously.
I can't think of a reason that's protown why you'd hold back a claim.
I'll wait until I go to bed (which won't be for a long while) for some people to get their thoughts in, and then I might consider hammering, if someone else hasn't.

It's not anti town either, unless I'm something important, which I'm not. Hammer now, please.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ok, I'm VT. I didn't want to claim because screw TSO and his ceaseless hard headed stupidity that for someone reason everyone else not only puts up with, but follows into not one, but TWO fucking qucklynches, both were mislynches, by the way. He was about to push the doctor to a lynch and now he's pushing for me.

Since people insist hes dumb not scum, when I asked, I laid off on my scum read, but I'm so confused as to why everyone follows him if they recognize he's dumb?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EP I swear. If you're not scum than TSO is. So we can either lynch tso or you can hammer, unless you have a better wagon to propose. I guess it's possible we have an all lurker scum team, but I don't think that's likely and honestly if we lynch tso and for some reason he flips town then I'm coming after you tomorrow and TSO won't be there to save you this time.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

So I guess you can self wagon, vote for TSO, or hammer me. I would really hate to do myself the disrespect of selfhammering but you have no idea how much I don't like playing this game right now. I honestly feel like there isn't really a game to play unless TSO is gone.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

UNVOTE: EE

The Alchemist lynch was MY fault. Scum set a trap and I fell right on in. I was so confident I jumped in ignoring my paranoia that this was a setup trap for me.

Jaquen flat out deserved his rope.

~Titus

It doesn't end.

*sigh*

Alright what have you got for me? Alchemist was a little bit of everyone's fault, mine as well. Jaquen... Panicked. Scum read people he probably shouldn't have. So give me your scum reads. I'm open to Shiro, Elyse, EP, or TSO. The others lurk too much or aren't scummy enough. If you want you can just trust me. There's at least one scum between TSO Elyse and EP. I feel the best about voting EP. Shiro is kind of null scum. Definitely weird there. Her vote on me seemed a bit opportunitistic as well. Garmr is actually another person I would be willing to lynch but this would be a "you have willingly not really contributed to the game lynch-you've made posts but generally just kind of sit on me and that's nowhere near decent play- that's not even trying" lynch instead of a "I think you're scum" lynch.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Here's a Shakespearean sonnet that i wrote instead of hammering

Am I to live with my suspicion, mad?
The shadow of a doubt to fester, here?
Forgetting all the grand old times we've had,
For Eagle, my good pal, has disappeared.

Alas! This game keeps me awake at night
I toss and turn about my lynching scum.
The thought of Eagle's death makes eyes shine bright
I cry with searching eyes for a breadcrumb.

Oh why, my friend, do you refuse to claim?
I've never been less confident in reads,
This uphill battle- maelstrom of a game,
As town attempts to get rid of the weeds

Because my skills, a lot worse than the best,
Lack confidence to lay your head to rest.

pedit- okay wow a lot of things happened while i wrote that

It's been a while since I took english. Is it three stanzas of abab and then one of aa? I don't remember.

I do like your poem, though.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Ugh. I don't want to play "guess which lurker is scum" that's no fun.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Also people should make up their mind whether they think it's vig or sk. Not whatever is convenient

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm sorry I thought we had one or the other. Only two kills at nights, sometimes one. So to say that we have both is to imply 1. That there is a roleblocker or doctor who has been correct every night and last night a second doctor/roleblocker was successful, OR we have a doctor or roleblocker who was right every night and someone didn't submit a kill last night.

Occams Razer says that it's most likely we have one or the other. The argument we have both is... Kill flavor?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I said TSO was DoS. Everyone else insists D. But if he's not he's scum. So. I still think there is at least one scum between ep, TSO and Elyse. TSO might be town but that would mean ep is probably scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm sorry Elyse. I like you. I think you're a cool person. I just think you're maybe scum.

And part of it is PoE I admit.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

If it makes you feel any better I feel bad for calling you scum.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And it probably doesn't matter because I don't think anyone else thinks you're scum anyways, so I don't think we could lynch you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

If EE is town, I think I'd rather garrotte myself than attempt to re-align my reads.

That feeling is mutual.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Well, we've come to an impasse. I want EE dead.

That feeling as well, is mutual.

Pedit he's wrong shiro. But do it. I don't want to deal with him anymore.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I was too stretched thin between real-life (working 11 hours/day at the time) and my other games that were further along/modding.
I couldn't commit the resources so I figured the best way to get the most out of my role would be to lay low, fake a PR, and hope I got lucky at night.

Lunch errant with me? I feel bad lynching my white knight but I do still want to win this one for town and I can't let feelings get in the way or I would have self voted long ago.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You know I wouldn't be surprised if tso Elyse and errant were scum together. But one at a time. One at a time.

Or me. We could lynch me and I can just forget this game ever happened. That would be nice. I'm going to at least have the self respect not to self vote though.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I might be willing to lynch shiro. Not in my top three though.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I might be willing to lynch shiro. Not in my top three though.

Maybe. I really really rather ep Elyse or tso. Like a lot more.
Like almost uncompromising

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Garments didn't push Klingon. He put his vote on her, iirc but I don't call that bussing. He slapped it on at day end after pushing me all day long.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

But he's said he'd vote Shiro. He didn't adamantly say he wouldn't. Which means that, in due course and with much hemming and hawing, he likely will.

Add that to the fact that I specifically damned Klingon for doing that - for doing that exact thing - and I really fail to see how you could draw a townread from that.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "uncompromising"? Obviously not.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh yes. Fake anger. Please. I won't ever sign up for a game you're in again if you'll do me the same honor.

Frankly some of the things you post make me want to puke. I don't care if this is a scum gambit or whatever. Even if you're scum your play is absolutely inexcusable.

And I'm done. Hopefully. EP I feel more like Elyse is scum after that flip on me since I started town reading her, would you be interested in moving that direction today?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Errant - if I'm right and EE is scum, you're on sheep duty for the rest of the game. Agreed?

If only someone had thought to make this deal with you over dapper and alchemist. Oh wait.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

When did I flip on you

I think you're town. Because your crusade on TSO (and also because your buddying me)

And then I think eagles scum (when I became viable lynch again)

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Dont take credit where it's not due. Titus lead the Klingon wagon. You just kind of repeated what she said.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm going to apologise for my coarse language earlier; I do not think EE is braindead, nor a moron. I am simply suggesting that, as brain activities go, EE's is on the lower side of things, similar to a monkey, or perhaps an intelligent rock.

This might be insulting except for the fact that in the same way that a man born blind cannot comprehend sight, you cannot recognize the presence of grey matter between the ears of others due to your own apparent lacking in the substance.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like some battle chants would help stir up some fervour for the lynch of Eagle. Every good mob needs an anthem.

Ooh this is a good idea. We can all have a role, too!

Random can be Belle, and Dapper can be Maurice, and you can be Gaston and I'll be the Beast!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like some battle chants would help stir up some fervour for the lynch of Eagle. Every good mob needs an anthem.

Ooh this is a good idea. We can all have a role, too!

Random can be Belle, and Dapper can be Maurice, and you can be Gaston and I'll be the Beast!

And y'all can do that kill the Beast song from the movie!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

It's not.

What did your mother tell you about lying?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

In hindsight that might have taken it too far.

I'm sincerely sorry.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like some battle chants would help stir up some fervour for the lynch of Eagle. Every good mob needs an anthem.

Ooh this is a good idea. We can all have a role, too!

Random can be Belle, and Dapper can be Maurice, and you can be Gaston and I'll be the Beast!

And y'all can do that kill the Beast song from the movie!

real talk though that song is great.

I like the whole movie. Even though it's not true to the original fairy tale

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You want to vote for me, TWIE? Or are you already?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

TSO's MUM during TSO's childhood

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8141608

Heeeeyyyy who said I was TSO's mum?

Hey Titus want to hammer? I'll let you be the evil enchantress you only see in stain glass windows at the beginning of the movie.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Vote:Eagle

Yea Scum had to be on that counterwagon day 1, and I know it not me.

I mean I keep flip flopping on this read but I think it is my weakness on AtE speaking

VOTE: EE

This day needs to end. I'm still lost, so I'm going to sheep TSO here.

Thanks!

TSO's MUM during TSO's childhood

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=8141608

Heeeeyyyy who said I was TSO's mum?

Hey Titus want to hammer? I'll let you be the evil enchantress you only see in stain glass windows at the beginning of the movie.

I wanna be someone D: I am a huge Disney here :<

You can be the rose that loses petals over time?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Or the candlestick!

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Someone just hammer. Please?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm finding again and again that I need to work on being more persuasive with my reads and stop doubting myself. I just had two games end where I hard pushed at least one scum on day 1 and then later in the game gave up because everyone kept saying I was wrong. I need to be more bullheaded and stubborn apparently.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This was a good game, Jason, thanks for running it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Are you just going around posting in games as soon as they end? Or are you stalking me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

B-but you didn't say that specific name often enough. :'(

@fb I don't think scum flails in lylo very often

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That was a very good game you played, Elyse, you have my respect. I nearly went completely mad this game a large part due to my read on you.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That was a very good game you played, Elyse, you have my respect. I nearly went completely mad this game a large part due to my read on you.

Ok eagle going to say this.

Sorry

I still don't think your reasons were right for catching me because they could of been me on a off game as townie which I have every once in a while. But you did manage to quite a few scum on your list. So I guess you may have a decent instinct and I wasn't giving you enough credit.

I apologize.

When I was younger and playing off site I said things like this a lot. Actually every time I was caught as scum I said this or something similar. I think a big part of this is because I take a very different approach to reading people than anyone else I've met and I've always seen my reasons as the only right reasons. I don't know. Maybe I caught you for the right reasons, maybe for the wrong ones. I have kind of just started giving in now and accepting any reason I'm caught as valid, since I feel that (at least when I responded) that this response was more to protect my ego than to help the other person become a better player, and I don't want to be destructive (no matter how much it may seem to be otherwise.) In the sprint, it doesn't matter why scum was caught, they were caught. In the long run, for the player, it can be helpful to know good reasons and bad ones, but since I've found that everyone reads everyone differently, it's best for the individual player to figure this out for themselves.

I apologize for the wall. :/

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Good game, garmr.

Good game, all.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

we're not getting scum pt?

boring.

We better

I will rebel

Oh ok so I spent most of the time trying to figure which posts were by which person. I figured it out. One uses caps, the other doesn't. Also one is a little more forward and the other is a little more patient. And one is more kind. Got it, I think I could tell you guys apart easily if you ever hydra again

[Extrapolated Eagle]

And one is more kind.

Lol which one was this?

A mystery.

Also I knew he signed every time, I just needed a chance to get my thoughts out about you two without giving everything away

[Extrapolated Eagle]

EE is going to be a fucking nightmare postgame.

Why?

---

On another note, I'm glad I drew not one, not two, but three jails. Gave town PRs room to work, so at least that part of my play was pro-town. Lol

[Extrapolated Eagle]

There's a name for this stuff? Also what's the chainsaw gambit jaquen was talking about?

Also I loved playing with jaquen.

PEdit: idk what slayers gambit is but whatever I did worked, it caught Elyse

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Oh, lol:

When a vanilla townie intentionally acts scummy in an attempt to find scum eager to jump on to a bandwagon early in the game. Named after Disciple Slayer, a player who used this gambit in Mini 533. (Link)

This Gambit was used before Disciple Slayer by the legendary Internet Stranger, in early mafia games.

There is controversy that Disciple Slayer's actions were not intentionally scummy, but were, in fact, bad play.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Yeah I did pull that in a way, and Titus doubted me, but Elyse and Garmr fell for it, I just was stupid and didn't catch garment right away, lol

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Am I the only one who thinks Slayer's Gambit is a giant crock of shit?

Also based on the wording in the last paragraph you aren't the only one who thinks it's just an excuse to act scummy, if that's what you meant, although I assure you my play was intentional.

PEdit: I moved on the theory that null alignment/town would jump on lynchbait or someone acting strange/out of place, and scum would jump on for town cred.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

*ebwop scum would jump on *them* for town cred

[Extrapolated Eagle]

The reasoning being scum (elyse) would know for a fact that I was town and not have to deal with the uncertainty that everyone else did. In other words, scum knew my alignment and didn't have to deal with wifom and thus knew the correct action immediately with no hesitation, which is exactly what elyse did.

PEdit: She did fall for it, I did catch her, I just couldn't get anyone to listen to me.

Skaters might not have been the right name for it, but you get the idea

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I would have hammered Elyse at any point in the game with no hesitation and shut her down in lylo. Don't get me wrong. I tried changing my reads to see if agreeing with people on some people would get them to listen to me on others, so I swapped a lot and it got me nowhere. It was actually distracting and probably helped scum far more than town, at that point I needed a lynch. But I didn't for one second think elyse was town

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I suppose the point you're making is that I hesitated about it, whereas she did not, but... scum can be hesitant, just as town can be reckless. The tell amounts to a guessing game. I did not even notice you doing it this game - my comments are more directed towards Jaqen, who was apparently doing it, but possibly not.

Did you miss the entire RVS section of the game where I pulled this? She wasn't scum because she thought I was scummy, she was scum because she DIDN'T think I was scummy. I didn't vote and then I acted strangely about it, provocatively even, and Titus and quite a few others were wary about me. I set myself up as lynchbait, knowing town should think I'm scummy/strange, but Elyse didn't do this, instead of saying this, she voted Garmr when Garmr voted for me, going for the towncred protecting town, knowing I was town beforehand.

Am I the only one who thinks Slayer's Gambit is a giant crock of shit?

Also based on the wording in the last paragraph you aren't the only one who thinks it's just an excuse to act scummy, if that's what you meant, although I assure you my play was intentional.

PEdit: I moved on the theory that null alignment/town would jump on lynchbait or someone acting strange/out of place, and scum would jump on for town cred.

So my tips to get people to believe.
-address peoples points against you instantly and try not to dance around them. (you kinda danced around mine)
-Try to avoid arguing terminology
-eliminate as much possible town reasoning of why they could do it as possible.
-avoid making yourself looking scummy on purpose then using that to try and convince others that the people who jumped onto you were scum. Slayers is bad.
-Try not to be perceived as crazy by offering solid logic and possible reasoning as to why this person did that.

Haha, yeah I see what you mean, that's like all my play, though.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

TSO Elyse fell for gambit because she didn't vote for me, she voted for garmr when garmr voted for me.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse was also scummy because literally all she did was echo everyone else, because klingon flipped scum and when klingon was scum instead of jumping on elyse, she scum read titus and aj for scum reading her but ignored elyse, didn't bring her up at all. Elyse claimed the whole time she was a leading head on klingon wagon, but for some strange reason Klingon was OMGUSing hard and somehow missed Elyse? Elyse didn't really take super strong stances, she just kind of echoed whatever top town was (you or titus) and voted pretty much where you voted.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Elyse played like she had no mind of her own and that made her scum as well.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

LOL Elyse do you feel better about yourself now?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

YOu and garmr amaze me. You win a game and you still need to be told "good job, you did good" and if anyone else says "oh I think I might ahve done something good here, I just need to fix here" then you have to make sure that they're put back in their place because you and only you two are good players and since we lost, everything we did was HORRIBAD and we should never play this way again.

Listen, I said I respect your play. It was very good. Good job. Ok? I'm however, perfectly allowed, to reflect on my play and examine in the open without being crapped on by your insecurities

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You played an excellent game, Elyse. Your play was not without mistakes. Getting caught is getting caught and I'm not going to justify my reasons to you just so that you feel like you had a perfect game. You didn't. You played an excellent game, perhaps one of the best I've ever seen (not that that's saying much) but that doesn't make you infallible or your play without mistakes

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Let me put it this way: Town lost. The scum won. Largely because of the efforts of Elyse and Garmr. Excellent scum play, both of you. There is no possible way you could have known for a fact who each role was. There was no way you could have known that I was not worth it to jailkeep, or that someone else wasn't worth it to jailkeep. It was highly unlikely you would figure out exactly what pr what each town was. That would be madness, almost impossible and incredibly lucky on your part. Your play was incredible. You had me going insane to the point where my play became incredibly anti-town and you did an amazing job making sure you were town read until the end. I think the way you bussed Klingon was really solid and had almost everyone convinced you were dead town. You will never convince anyone. I was the lucky one this time to get some stuff right. Another time it will be someone else. There will ALWAYS be someone who knows. But you played it off really well, so well that no one would believe me. That might be partly my fault but I think a lot of it was your excellent play.

Me pointing out that I was jailkept is me taking solace in the fact that part of my play WASN"T incredibly anti-town, that I did something right. Another thing I did correct was catch Elyse (and Garmr, partially.) IMO a ridiculous amount of my play outside of that was distracting and detrimental to town.

PEdit: I mean, if you say so. *shrugs* Caught scum is caught scum

[Extrapolated Eagle]

You're welcome to think what you wish, Garmr. Your decision to attempt to deceive yourself is yours to make alone.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I understand why Elyse and yourself are responding negatively. Have you noticed that no one else did, though?

YOu're upset that you got caught. It happens. Get over it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

If you say so.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

@PV that was what I was trying to get at before people's egos got in the way and they started misreading and then other people thought THEY knew what I was saying and more people jumped onto things I was saying.

@aneninen it's not "I knew it" if you say "they're scum" and then push their lynch the whole game. That feeling is for when you point out they're scummy at one point in the game, and that isn't caught, you're right, because everyone is suspicious of everyone at one point. This is different. But that's not what I'm trying to get at anyways. What I was originally TRYING to do was figure out what went wrong and fix the not being able to get scum that was obvious to me lynched by making it obvious to everyone else.

And if a man is arrested and sent to jail but gets out because the people holding him dies, he's still caught. Hence caught is the right word here.
Regardless this seems to have become a whole lot more about making sure people's feelings are intact and that certain people make sure that they didn't actually do scummy things because they were scum, it was because they had other reasons in mind and for this reason they weren't actually called out for doing scummy things. And since this has gotten there I'm not talking about it anymore. I was hoping one of you could help me instead of attacking me but it's apparent y'all are more about playing than learning or getting better