If a kill goes through and the worst, Kthx and N_M don't have guilties, the killer MUST be in {the worst, Bujaber} (or there's a strongman/ninja). If a kill doesn't go through, I'll be alive to talk about it.
Just gonna wait for the worst and maybe mastina to sign off on this.
I'm starting to question how the game is balanced around mafia traitor.
Are there 4 mafia? Third party?
acryon's flip and mastina's proposed scumteam in no way explain what happened last night, especially if A50 doesn't flip ascetic strongman.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In other news, acryon/A50/Beefster doesn't work as a scumteam either (if A50 doesn't flip strongman) because Beefster is confirmed to have jailed Marangal.
But that's talk for another day.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In fact I see it as more likely acryon didn't know the scumteam considering he gladiated his 2 strongest townreads
I think he was trying to avoid a d1 scum lynch
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2199, Momrangal wrote:Possible but like, I am under the assumption that traitor is informed and the scum team is informed of there being one, but not who it is.
calling scumteam as A50/beefster still
mafia ascetic strongman + mafia jailkeeper
any scumteam that doesn't account for iconeum getting wasted is a bad one though
not_mafia likely to actually be motion detector
IB is probably locktown and the worst can check that
the worst is more likely to just die tbh
kthx is confirmed follower
so mastina roleblocked me or A50 is the strongman
them gladiating each other is consistent with that
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
InfernoBrafin, I've literally never seen the "standard" JOAT in any theme game. The wiki is based on 10-year-old mod meta.
Please please don't try to determine alignment based on role. There are better arguments to be made, and better things to spend our time on (in fact more than a paragraph in response to this post is going to be wasted time; no one expects every JOAT to be a cop/vig/roleblocker).
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2207, InfernoBrafin wrote:I'm on post #790, and I'd like to say a few things.
KTB is prob town because of the whole No-lynch thing.
Mom's quickvote on Ico has me concerned. So does Bu's.
Bu also has what appears to be faked confusion in an interaction with TW. Not sure why.
So if you don't terribly mind a bit of critique
You kind of have the opposite problem of mastina with your catchup. While she overexplains and overdramatises everything while dumping walls of logic and flair on every event involving anyone else
you're kind of just saying things to show you're still with us, you're still catching up, and you have relevant thoughts, but they're not actually adding anything to the gamestate.
- Multiple people tried to "no lynch", you don't explain here what's any townier about Kthx's NL vote. In fact, I think it's scummier than anyone else's.
- Link us to the vote. You also fail to explain what scum motivation there is in Marangal and Bujaber going for the difficult lynch (Iconeum) over the relatively easy lynch (me).
- What? What faked confusion? If you tell us why, we might be able to help you.
- And in order for me to go back and check your work, I have to go manually find post 790, when you could use quotes or the [ post ][ /post ] tags to immediately link us there.
This is combined with your fixation over relatively minor setup-based things (like mastina's JOAT claim) that can really just be factchecked by asking anyone who's played 1 or 2 theme games on this site.
Like your hydra partner. Who you know is trustworthy.
I guess what I'm saying is a lot of what you're posting belongs in your hydra chats rather than the thread, until
A. You want to get second opinions on things (in which case you should be opening up discussions)
B. You want to actually start pushing a case/theory/narrative (in which case you should catch up first).
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Scum have a strongman no matter what, assuming mastina's night action went through. Either Beefster performed the strongman kill and is also a mafia jailkeeper who jailed Marangal, or someone shot straight through Beefster's protection.
Assuming innocents from everyone, that means we have:
Confirmed didn't do the nightkill: InfernoBrafin, Not_Mafia, Ms Marangal
Remaining:
Beefster: Confirmed jailkeeper
the worst: Unconfirmed, needs to claim
Bujaber: Unconfirmed compulsive visitor
Kthx: Semi-confirmed follower
Mathdino: Unconfirmed Bodyguard
VOTE: Bujaber
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
At this point it's just lynching the people late to the parties.
Kthx called the guilty on A50 and was one of the first on acryon. I could definitely see Kthx "confirming" himself as a softbus plan with A50, but the force with which he went in on that makes that a bit unlikely.
Beefster was late on acryon. Viable partner.
Bujaber was late on both. Probably the correct lynch today.
the worst I'd have to take a closer look at. Was late on acryon but gung ho on A50.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
On reconsideration, I'd also be somewhat open to lynching Beefster (since jailkeeper does nothing).
This creates a nightplan of:
Mathdino holsters
Kthxbye follows Bujaber
the worst checks Mathdino
Not_Mafia checks InfernoBrafin
Lynching Bujaber is mechanically superior because "compulsive visitor" is a weird role that doesn't seem like it would have a result for the Follower, and Not_Mafia doesn't really have anything useful to do in this instance. Unless we want to do an alternate plan of the worst checking Marangal and Not_Mafia motion detecting me, which also works.
But Beefster is probably scummier by play, so w/e.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2241, Kthxbye wrote:Also, call me setup spec scared, but I'm not sure town gets 3 investigates even WITH investigation immune goon. Maybe I'm just paranoid...
It's not at all unlikely that there's 4 mafia.
That just requires a double bus.
Either way that group of 5 I posted MUST contain a strongman. Once we get our strongman flip, we reevaluate.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
My power means nothing. Scum used their strongman on N1 and N2. I'm much better off holstering and allowing myself to be cleared by Not_Mafia.
If we double up you and the worst on Beefster (or whoever else), we can ensure a result even if scum kills one of you.
Game balance is either 4 mafia (in which case Not_Mafia is fucking clearly the 4th scum) or just thinks that a mafia strongman will neuter all the protectives and roleblockers.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2248, Kthxbye wrote:I'd be up for a Beefster lynch at this point from a pure setup spec standpoint. If a JK can't keep a strongman from killing and scum have a strongman AND a JK can't stop non killing actions from targeting them or their targets, it just doesn't make sense in this game.
If Beefster was scum, does that take away the idea of a strongman with what claims have come out?
Beefster is confirmed to have jailed Marangal N1, because her action didn't go through. He couldn't have jailed me in order to get to Iconeum.
Since mastina flipped town, that means scum is either
A. Strongman
B. Roleblocker
C. Asceticizer?
D. Alien???
C and D are longshots. It's more likely that scum just strongman killed Iconeum and mastina. If Beefster is scum (and if there's 3 scum), he's a strongman jailkeeper.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2249, Kthxbye wrote:If you are BG and you BG me, I can clear you of all doubt. That is a bonus going forward for sure. I'm more than a little worried about scum killing CS and not you considering...
Again, BGing you does absolutely nothing, because if I'm scum, I'll just shoot you, and if scum have their strongman left, they'll ALSO shoot you through my protection.
My bodyguard is absolutely useless with the roles remaining. I should not be using it.
I believe I'm alive because my reads on the 3rd scum were shit. Tbh that heavily implicates the worst, but he can be lynched before LyLo if it comes to that.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2254, Kthxbye wrote:did scum not kill you to simply make the rest of us (or me anyway) ask the question as to why? Your reads of the 3rd scum being shit or not, killing CS doesn't make any sense unless...
mastina blocks Beefster
Beefster jails mastina
This implicates Beefster....except it's been said that strongman is something scum have had for a long time. So, again, makes no sense to kill CS because if it's assumed there's a strongman, this negates the implication that Beefster is scum for the kill going through.
So.....
Even though your power is useless with a strongman in the mix, it doesn't matter if you holster it or use it so I can clear you. If I die from strongman, so be it. If NM is town, can can simply watch me to see who else visits me other than you and you are cleared and scum is caught caught. If nobody visits me, I will get a message saying you actually are our savior. It'd make me feel a lot better going forward.
the worst's investigative relies on me not performing a night action.
In post 2255, Kthxbye wrote:also, if scum kill you, you will have gotten your wish to die ASAP.
tbh, mom lynch here makes me the most comfortable.
VOTE: momrangal
The ONLY way Marangal is scum here is if Marangal/Not_Mafia is straight up the scumteam.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
I asked Gamma; in the case that a roleblocker and a jailkeeper targeted each other, neither would be able to perform a factional kill.
Obviously that doesn't answer whether the protection goes through, but we'll see.
Kthx are you definitively arguing that Marangal/Not_Mafia is the scumteam? Because if not, you should be voting Beefster or Bujaber here. I'm pretty confident Marangal is town.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Okay so lemme think. Beefster is clearly the scummiest person by a mile in terms of play besides Not_Mafia, who has already been cleared. Problem is him being scum requires mafia jailkeeper, which is a bit iffy.
Not_Mafia and Marangal are either both town or are both scum (or there's 4 scum and someone other than the two of them did the nightkill). We could resolve that situation by lynching Marangal, who could've had some kind of investigative role that got blocked by Beefster (forcing her to come up with a messenger fakeclaim). If she's scum, lynching Not_Mafia wins the game. If she's town:
This actually works pretty well. Alternatively, if you guys are okay with me not being checked, we can just lynch Not_Mafia, keep Marangal alive, and I'll go ahead and guard Kthxbye.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Beefster confirmed blocked Marangals message sending on N1. So he definitely has the actual ability to roleblock. The problem is that still doesn't explain how Iconeum got shot.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2273, Kthxbye wrote:it's out of the question that Beef and Mom are the team?
Would require Beefster being a mafia strongman jailkeeper and Marangal being a mafia messenger, so no it's not out of the question, but that would be pretty fuckin freaky.
In post 2274, Kthxbye wrote:uhg...do we have a consolidated claimed action/resolution list somewhere? My head hurts.
N1:
mastina ??? (probably rolecopped me)
Beefster jails Marangal
Marangal messages mastina (fails)
the worst checks Iconeum, town
Mathdino protects Iconeum
Not_Mafia checks acryon, no motion
Kthxbye checks Almost50, no result
Some jackass strongman-kills Iconeum
N2:
mastina roleblocks Beefster
Beefster jails mastina
the worst checks InfernoBrafin, town
Kthxbye checks Not_Mafia, did not kill
Not_Mafia checks Marangal, no motion
Some jackass strongman-kills mastina
I mean we have 4 lynches and an insane amount of night actions to figure this shit out.
So at this point I just want a claim from the worst so we can lynch anyone in {Beefster, Bujaber, Not_Mafia, Marangal}.
the worst is the only one that can actually clear townies, which is good because we just have to identify people he's not scum with and have him clear them.
Kthx and Not_Mafia can identify who didn't perform the kill.
The kill was 100% performed by one of the following:
Mathdino: If anyone seriously scumreads me
the worst: Pls claim
Kthxbye: Who hypothetically hardbussed A50
Beefster: If he's a strongman jailkeeper
Bujaber
Marangal: If and only if she's scum with Not_Mafia.
So seeing as strongman makes me and Beefster useless and seeing as Bujaber is the hardest person among all of these to clear, we should lynch them in succession, then lynch N_M (to clear Marangal), then hopefully have some set of {me, the worst, Kthx} cleared as town to win LyLo.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
OK so if no one wants me to holster you guys accept that I'm never going to get cleared as town, and we let go of the "lynch Mathdino in Lylo" deal, yeah?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Plus if he thinks he's going to get caught in the act, he's either going to
1. Not kill (in which case we can regroup)
2. Kill you, which sorts you and causes us to lynch him
I can be sorted by both the worst and Not_Mafia tomorrow night if I'm not dead.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2349, Momrangal wrote:Mod already confirmed that scum can't kill and use an ability (I think) and if he was strongman, he has been doing the kills each night. N2, he couldn't have because he targeted me so he isn't strongman for sure
The mod never said this. Scum can absolutely perform a factional kill and perform night actions.
@Mod: Please confirm that a mafia power role can both perform a night action and perform the factional kill.
This is either a major townslip or a major scumslip.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Go pull up Bujaber's ISO, and Ctrl+F instances of "a50" and "almost50". He's claiming credit for a scumread that was borrowed from me and Kthxbye. He never hardpushed A50 until the guilty, the moment when we were all on the lookout for people going after Kthxbye. Upon actually fucking reading for once in my life, I believe his scumread of A50 was alignment informed.
Not to mention that if he's a strongman, saying "Let's lynch Mathdino if he's not dead by endgame" is transparently pro-scum, because scum can always just shoot through my protection.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
none of the rest of our roles are at all trollish in nature
town backup JOAT paired with a town JOAT, no trolls
town messenger, pretty normal role
mafia "investigation immune goon" is the least interesting thing to call a role like that
investigatives are follower, motion detector, and whatever the fuck the worst is
"compulsive visitor" is a pathetic excuse for why the worst can't clear him, not_mafia can't clear him, and kthx is apparently the only one who can
VOTE: Bujaber
let's go guys we need to end the day
beefster's play today has been clearly townish and marangal drives a good point
This plan definitively clears Beefster and me, and forces scum to kill in {Beefster, Not_Mafia, Mathdino, InfernoBrafin}. Killing Beefster to nullify worst/Kthx's invest results, killing Not_Mafia to remove the Mathdino result, killing IB to remove a townie, and killing me to nullify Not_Mafia's result.
Most likely, scum no-kills in this situation.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
priorVCNumber=0
url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75184
playerList=Mathdino,marshy,Beefster,InfernoBrafin,Momrangal,Sing and Slay,BuJaber,the worst,Kthxbye,Lil Uzi Vert,acryon{lynch the frick out of acryon},TheGoldenParadox,Iconeum
replacementList=marshy:Not_Mafia,Sing and Slay:Carrot and Stick,Lil Uzi Vert:Almost50
moderatorNames=Gamma Emerald,mastina,Inferno390
dayStartNumbers=0,1011,2132,2232
cleanDay=true
deadline=2018-03-26 18:05:00 -5.00
deadList=TheGoldenParadox-1,Iconeum-1,Carrot and Stick-3
voteOverrides=
I am not targeting anyone tonight, that's final
Scum has a fucking bodyguard, it's literally anti town for me to target
Kthx if you get killed while targeting me and Not_Mafia calls a guilty on me, my mislynch is on your head
Let Not_Mafia clear ke
You need to clear Beefster just in case the worst gets shot
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Look dude
I am already finalising my decision to not do anything, so Not_Mafia can clear me by getting a result of "no motion detected".
If you target me, you are actively fucking up my ability to be cleared.
Not_Mafia, the worst, and I are already on board with the plan as I wrote it. If you do anything else tonight, a town loss is on your head. It doesn't work if not everyone agrees to it.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2396, Kthxbye wrote:Do you not understand that I will get NO FUCKING RESULT FROM TARGETING A PLAYER WHO TAKES NO ACTION?! I'm beginning to think you legitimately don't understand what a follower is.
I developed a Follower fakeclaim once as scum.
If someone dies at night, and you get "no result" on your target, what does that tell you?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2392, Mathdino wrote:re: you targeting beefster: yes, that's the whole point, if you get no result and scum still kills, that clears beefster as town
walk me through this? how? how does this clear him as town if there are 4 mafia in play?
If there are 4 mafia in play, ideally the worst will be able to clear him anyway.
If the worst dies, then we still have your result on Beefster, and can start narrowing down who was able to do the nightkill last night, which is the most important question here.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Kthx, any positive utility you think you get from doing your plan over mine (which clears Beefster and me, just like you wanted) is FAR less than the negative utility of you being the only person tonight who doesn't follow the plan.
If you are the only person who doesn't follow the plan tonight, it is very possible that we lose because of you.
The hammer was already posted, Gamma just needs to come and lock the thread. We don't have time for others to confirm that they prefer your plan. I have been the de facto nightplan creator.
I promise you that I will be cleared tonight or tomorrow night. Just target Beefster so we actually get a fucking result on him if the worst dies.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2397, Mathdino wrote:I am already finalising my decision to not do anything, so Not_Mafia can clear me by getting a result of "no motion detected".
THIS DOES NOT CLEAR YOU IT JUST MEANS YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING!
What the fuck mafia team do you think I'm on then?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Mathdino-scum means he never actually protected Iconeum, yet scum still shot through Beefster's protection of mastina.
List of scumteams available:
Mathdino/Beefster: This is a consistent team that can be disproven tonight by having all 3 investigatives target the two of us. This ONLY works under my plan. Your plan is definitively unable to rule out this scumteam.
Mathdino/the worst: This would make the worst a strongman. Theoretically possible.
Mathdino/Bujaber: Bujaber's fucking dying so you're good in this situation.
Mathdino/InfernoBrafin: Literally impossible because the worst towncleared IB.
Mathdino/Marangal: Theoretically possible, requires me to be a scum strongman AND for Marangal to be a scum messenger who was blocked by Beefster AND faked multiple townslips.
Mathdino/Not_Mafia: Requires me to be a scum strongman. We can literally lynch Not_Mafia tomorrow if this makes you happy. His role becomes effectively useless tomorrow so I'm kinda planning to do this anyway.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2404, Kthxbye wrote:For the record, the "I told you so" will come from not clearing a claimed BG who 'wants to die as soon a possible' yet never dies.
I can't die if there's a scum strongman. That's my point. I have no control over whether or not I die. I believe the strongman was put in place to balance out the 3 protectives and 2 roleblocks.
PLUS I WILL BE CLEARED TONIGHT UNDER THE ASSUMPTION OF 3 MAFIA
If there are 4 mafia, my partner MUST be either Marangal or Not_Mafia.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
You're confirmed town, and Marangal is close to conftown by way of townslip.
If I have a partner, it's one of the following:
the worst
Beefster
Not_Mafia
the worst is going to have a result on Beefster. If Beefster is conftown, I'm planning on lynching N_M. If Beefster is NOT conftown, we lynch him and you can have me checked all you want.
So if you want to lynch me today rather than my hypothetical scumbuddy, you better have a damn good case on why it's me/the worst.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Scumslips don't happen. I always act as if the worst case scenario is happening (and I'm on record for this in a bunch of games). I considered Kthx as a busplay but his townflip makes me reasonably certain there's either 2 scum, or Beefster is literally the last scum.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
The point here is that in a situation where you have 2 results on who DIDN'T perform the nightkill, it's absolutely ridiculous to lynch someone who's essentially confirmed not to have performed the kill.
We know for CERTAIN that there's either a strongman, or the scumteam is literally me/Beefster (which would explain both the Icon/mastina kills).
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
I have a 100% success rate on reading Almost50, and bussing him from basically the point where he replaced in would be horrible play, especially when I could've easily lynched mastina with him.
Instead I lynched two scum in a row while there was enough pushback to reasonably lynch elsewhere, while taking a deal to be autolynched if I was alive and not cleared by LyLo.
Consider that 4 scum could immediately win the game by lynching two town in a row on that double day.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
So this all revolves around the idea tat Beefster has to be conftown? That's mighty convenient.
p-edit: Except that confrims nothing, becasue YOU could be the strongman and be partners with N_M.
There are ways for you to be scum that you are not giving.
I already told you that if Beefster is cleared, I'm lynching Not_Mafia anyway.
If Beefster is NOT cleared, we lynch Beefster for literally being confscum.
So who exactly is my partner, and why would you lynch me today when there's about to be a clear on me affirming that I didn't perform the kill?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
I don't know what it's going to take to convince you guys how abjectly awful your play has been this game tbh. Like I literally followed that last newbie game just to watch the shitshow. I have basically never seen a situation where either of your reads was high enough above literally rolling the dice to follow them over mechanically correct plays.
So the question here is basically this: Are you willing to trust your own reads above literal investigations?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2439, InfernoBrafin wrote:Because something tells me that Beefster is not going to come back as conftown, and you know it.
SO WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO LYNCH ME OVER BEEFSTER
Suppose I'm scum.
You will KNOW for 100% certain which of Beefster and Not_Mafia is my scumbuddy based on the worst's result. Either you trust his result (and I'm right) or you don't trust his result (and I'm scum with him).
The next night action plan if the game isn't fucking over by then is to have the worst clear yet another townie while I guard him. Ideally Not_Mafia can also clear someone. By tomorrow, the game is won.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
again consider that had i pushed through 2 mislynches on that double day with my 3 scumbuddies and mastina AND literally any bad townie that was willing to sheep me
we could have immediately won right then and there
you literally think i'm scum for being right about A50
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Why did it matter whether or not people did night actions? You acted like you couldn't get a result on Bujaber; that was a primary reason I chose to lynch him over Beefster.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2349, Momrangal wrote:Mod already confirmed that scum can't kill and use an ability (I think) and if he was strongman, he has been doing the kills each night. N2, he couldn't have because he targeted me so he isn't strongman for sure
@Marangal:
Have you ever faked a townslip before?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Is there any night action so far which indicates that the same person both used their action AND killed?
Has anyone received a message from Mom?
I don't personally give a shit about the answer to this question on the basis that FMPOV and assuming you're town, the only possible scumteams are Beefster/Not_Mafia and Beefster/Marangal, making Beefster the only non-brain-dead lynch.
In the case of Beefster/Marangal, no, Marangal could be killing while claiming Beefster is jailing her. This setup doesn't actually require a strongman; Beefster could block me N1 while Marangal does the kill, and Marangal could just do the kill herself on N2.
So I guess that works.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Which is why I'm asking him to fullclaim. He's obviously not going to stick to the motion detector claim if he claims to know I did a thing last night.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
The point is, regardless of what his claim is, he's hardclaiming a guilty on me.
Beefster was provably tied up jailing you. So unless the scumteam is literally you/Beefster fucking up N_M's night action, it's between me and Not_Mafia.
VOTE: Not_Mafia
I presented a scumcase on him a few times throughout the game. the worst should recognise this as very similar to his scumgame in Stack the Deck. The only thing that was making me townread him was the insistence that acryon was locktown, but if scum didn't know who the traitor was, that's easily nullifiable. Tbh I also townread the fact that he wagoned with acryon and A50 at literally every point possible (assumed scum wouldn't be that ballsy), but it's also Not_Mafia.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2488, the worst wrote:I don't think I can really read Beef with any kind of accuracy.. Does anyone have first hand experience with him as scum?
I do.
I don't have a strong read on him. His play has been scum motivated though.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
N1. Iconeum was obvtown/neverlynchable and scumteam wanted to fuck with my bodyguarding.
N2. I don't know why the fuck mastina was killed but I sure as hell wouldn't kill her of all people while she was hardtownreading me. My scumplay is to kill confirmed town, not mislynchables or people who townread me.
N3. Kthx was killed to completely negate any possible results on Beefster.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2494, Not_Mafia wrote:It's probably just Beef? I still feel like we're missing some crucial aspect of the set-up, but I don't know what it is so I'm liable to just sheep Math
We're definitely missing something.
If scum is Beefster alone, these are the night actions:
N1. Beefster strongman kills Iconeum AND jails Marangal
N2. Beefster strongman kills mastina (and can't jail because roleblocked)
N3. Beefster kills Kthxbye and jails the worst.
This seems ludicrous.
Beefster, flavourclaim?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
We 100% should be lynching someone who is part of a theoretical scumteam.
If Beefster is part of all valid scumteams, great, we can do that.
The only counter to that FMPOV is a the worst/Not_Mafia scumteam. the worst fakes a soft guilty on Beefster, kills Kthx (to ensure no result), and N_M fakes an innocent on me to pocket me.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Shit. Yeah that checks out. I still think it's unlikely mod puts THREE ROLEBLOCKERS in the setup but I need to do some mod meta to figure this one out.
In that case, it's just obviously Not_Mafia. He could even be the lone mafia left if he's roleblocker.
I just need to confirm that the scumteam isn't Beefster/the worst or Beefster/Marangal. If not, Not_Mafia is the correct lynch today. His lynch order would've had to be either
Beefster --> the worst
or
Beefster --> Mathdino
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
No one has, because I had her holster in order to get motion detect cleared by Not_Mafia. She presumably would've been willing to send a message otherwise.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Night 1:
Not_Mafia motion detects acryon: detects no motion
Beefster jails Momrangal
Mathdino guards Iconeum
Momrangal messages Carrot: fails
BuJaber visits whoever
the worst checks Iconeum
Kthxbye follows Almost50: no result
TheGoldenParadox hides behind Iconeum: dies
Carrot ?????? (cookies for anyone who can actually figure out Carrot's night action, because I suspect they rolecopped me)
InfernoBrafin, Iconeum, acryon, do nothing
Iconeum dies
Day 2:
InfernoBrafin uses double day
Night 2:
Not_Mafia motion detects Momrangal: detects no motion
Beefster jails Carrot
BuJaber visits Mathdino
the worst investigates InfernoBrafin: town
Kthxbye follows Not_Mafia: sees investigative action
Carrot roleblocks Beefster
InfernoBrafin, Mathdino, Momrangal, do nothing
Carrot dies
Day 3:
N/A
Night 3:
Not_Mafia motion detects Mathdino: detects no motion
the worst investigates Beefster: no result
Kthxbye follows Beefster: dies
Beefster, InfernoBrafin, Mathdino, Momrangal do nothing
Wait so why didn't Momrangal send a message last night?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2518, Mathdino wrote:So the only possible scumpartner Marangal can have is Beefster.
Step me through this?
On D2, Marangal asked mastina if she received a message saying "I'm town".
mastina said no.
Marangal said "wtf".
Beefster said "Oh yeah I blocked Marangal because I'm a jailkeeper".
Marangal believed her message had legitimately gone through (unless she planned in advance a fakeclaim with Beefster). This means Marangal is either really a messenger, or is scum with Beefster.
Additionally, for Marangal to be scum, she would have to believe that scum could not perform a night action and kill at the same time.
So in the situation that she's a scum messenger who legit believed her message went through, her partner must have performed the nightkill on Iconeum. This means scum is either me (which makes me a scum roleblocker), Beefster (who jailed me on N1), or:
the worst: Fakeclaiming weak cop as mafia strongman? no.
Not_Mafia: Would have to be a strongman AND a mafia roleblocker. Which doesn't jive with Marangal's idea that scum can kill and act on the same night.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Gamma's online. Lynch anyone who doesn't follow the plan.
Fuck it, Not_Mafia has been against every single pro-town wagon: No Lynch, acryon, AND Almost50
And on every anti-town wagon: Mathdino, Iconeum, Kthx, mastina, Bujaber.
VOTE: Not_Mafia
You can only openwolf so much before it becomes impossible to let slide. N_M isn't THIS bad.
When N_M flips scum (when, not if):
I actually don't have a good nightplan here now that I think about it.
@Mod: If a bodyguard were to target a weak cop while the weak cop checked mafia, who would die?
Second, what would happen in this situation if mafia also shot the weak cop?
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
If N_M straight up flips strongman, then N_M/Marangal seems likely. Although if N_M is strongman after all, we can just win the game by having me protect you and Beefster protect InfernoBrafin.
If N_M flips anything other than strongman or roleblocker, then it's Beefster.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Which is a hilariously stacked town that's only really solvable by there being 4 scum.
One scum was given a motion detector safeclaim. One was given a commuter fakeclaim (and is investigation immune, which strongly points to Weak Cop existing). One is a gladiator.
The only way I can justify this nonsense setup is if scum also has roleblocking ability in the Jailkeeper.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 1276, acryon wrote:Have not liked Kthx today at all. I'm not really sure on IB right now. I'm not sure if this is intentional, but they've done a good job of keeping sort of neutral it seems after that rough first half of the day yesterday. Nothing they've done has really rubbed the wrong way. I like Momrangel a good bit actually, although a lot of it is gut. Nothing has really pinged me from A50, and the thought process makes sense to me. I like the worst. N_M is doing mostly nothing, but something about it feels genuine.
You. And Marangal.
Then all his scumteams had Beefster in them along with 2 conftown.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
My scumgame is just my towngame minus the parts that are blatantly anti-scum.
In Creature's game, I was at a point where I'd basically "solved" the LyLo from my POV, and the scumteam was forced to be either UCV/my scumpartner or Dunkerdoodles/my scumpartner. So instead of doing the correct thing, I argued for voting Dunker and won.
The day before that, I was hard-defending a town mislynch-bait slot (because it's within my meta to hard-defend people all the time), then lynched them anyway near the deadline as a compromise, because the only other option was literally lynching my scumbuddy. As town, I would've taken any other option in that situation.
In RC's game, I held out on bussing obvscum-Creature as long as possible, and soft-bussed a different scumbuddy the day after because they basically scumclaimed and were hard-distancing from me. After that I basically kept everyone in my lynchpool except my town neighbour, whose townflip would've made me look worse.
The game also completely died on the last day I was alive and I did basically nothing to get activity back because I knew no one would be like "oh wow look at Mathdino not requesting prods on people, must be scum". Until I got bored of 0 presence and requested prods way past the prod timer.
So yeah, it's just my towngame with fewer anti-scum things. I can tell you that if A50 and I were scum here, we'd basically wreck the game regardless of power roles or anything else, and we'd have sufficient experience with each other to believably locktown each other. I wouldn't have been the only guy pushing the A50 wagon for the entire time that slot was alive; I'd just let him be.
Double day means double town lynch is an insta win. That's something we could've pulled off given the gamestate, easily.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
If we lynch just one scum today and we hit whoever's responsible for the Iconeum/mastina kills, the following plan works:
the worst checks Marangal or Not_Mafia
Mathdino guards the worst
I stop you from dying, you get your result, gg scum. If both of us die, you hit mafia AND mafia tried to shoot you.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Night 2 (important actions):
Beefster protects mastina
mastina blocks Beefster
- mastina dies
Kthx follows N_M
N_M follows Marangal
- N_M did not perform that nightkill.
- If N_M is town, Marangal did not perform that nightkill.
so what the fuck
did beefster perform the nightkill every fucking night or what
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
Scenarios that explain what happened last night:
A. the worst is scum (lying).
B. Beefster is scum (jailed the worst).
C. Marangal is specifically a mafia roleblocker (blocked the worst).
Marangal clearly believed she had legitimately sent a message to mastina. This means that if she's scum, she's scum with Beefster or the worst. Full stop. She cannot be scum with Not_Mafia because N_M is a confirmed investigative.
The possible scumteams are then:
Beefster/Marangal: Beefster jailkeeper, Marangal something or other
Beefster/Not_Mafia: Beefster jailkeeper, Not_Mafia investigative, one of the two is a strongman to explain shooting through my bodyguard.
Beefster/the worst: Beefster jailkeeper, the worst strongman
Marangal/the worst: Marangal messenger, the worst strongman
Not_Mafia/the worst: Not_Mafia investigative, the worst strongman
Mechanically, Beefster/Not_Mafia is implausible.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
I guess I'm at a point where I just have to put the N_M reading skills to the test. He's played solely to his scum meta this entire game and has only done anti-town things.
The main reason I'm holding out on N_M is this whole "I know acryon is town by modspew" doesn't seem in any way scum motivated (I don't believe scum knew the traitor).
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
anyway claimfishing not_mafia came too late and sent me into FPS
i really think marshy succumbed to RWSTFO
i feel like scum intended to halfway rule me so w/e
hardclaim seer guilty on not_mafia-wolf lololol
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2634, Mathdino wrote:stop openwolfing and wallflowering you goat wolf, the idea that modspew derpcleared acryon was a dumbtell and angleshooting that can't be villa
Wolf: Scum.
Openwolfing: Doing basically everything pro-scum possible, knowing that towns will think you're Too Wolfy To Be Wolf. This strategy as opposed to the strategy of "play like you would as villa", which often results in you doing actually pro-town things like bussing.
Wallflowering: Low activity, basically lurking.
Modspew: Mod accidentally giving away information by virtue of mod actions.
Derpclear/Dumbtell: I used these words incorrectly so ignore that.
Angleshooting: Using something that borders on cheating due to stuff that's technically out of the idea of mafia, but isn't actually cheating.
Villa: Town.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2641, Mathdino wrote:anyway claimfishing not_mafia came too late and sent me into FPS
i really think marshy succumbed to RWSTFO
i feel like scum intended to halfway rule me so w/e
hardclaim seer guilty on not_mafia-wolf lololol
Claimfishing: Getting a role out of someone.
FPS: Fancy Play Syndrome, where you replace simple plays (like lynching obvscum) with incredibly complex plays.
Halfway rule: If a good player isn't dead by halfway through the game, they're probably a wolf. Also leads to leaving players alive to lynch them on "why not dead yet".
Seer: Cop.
Hardclaim seer guilty: Something MU townies do a lot for some reason.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
if there's a kill, not_mafia can confirm that
A. You didn't do it.
or
B. He's scum with you.
or
C. Someone targeted you to fuck with his motion detect.
personally i am confused that scum didn't just target me last night to frame a guilty on me
like isn't that exactly what the worst-scum would do in that situation
or Beefster-scum
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2611, Mathdino wrote:Beefster/Marangal: Beefster jailkeeper, Marangal something or other
Beefster/Not_Mafia: Beefster jailkeeper, Not_Mafia investigative, one of the two is a strongman to explain shooting through my bodyguard.
Beefster/the worst: Beefster jailkeeper, the worst strongman
Marangal/the worst: Marangal messenger, the worst strongman
Not_Mafia/the worst: Not_Mafia investigative, the worst strongman
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy
In post 2692, Momrangal wrote:But, N2 I was being watched by N_M and dino was still bypassed that night. The only way that could happen is if I was scum with N_M is if were scum together and that's already disproven.
I wasn't bypassed that night; Beefster was.
"I just want to play mafia, not Economics Wonderland." - cytheflyguy