Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[skitter30]

I'll have more to say when I'm back from work

I'm really not liking skitter though, I'll have to reread her

Yeah so you're going to have to explain why in excruciatingly detail at this point

[skitter30]

Flubber was on the tris wagon

It's not impossible that scum dog piled on tris (1 more scum on that wagon) since that would make Brigitte look a lot worse upon a tris flip

Also just noting here that skitter was the only slot that didn't vote for either lynch wagon

Just noting (:

Yes and she also had the weird votepark on Flubber, which she got called out on.

Flubber/Chara/Skitter as the scumteam would not be a complete shock to me at this point. I just don’t believe Chara’s reads progression post-Flubber flip is sincere.

Tris was his #1 push, pre-flip and post-flip she’s practically townlock. Tris could still be town, I’m just not buying Chara’s sudden readchange on her. It’s almost like we are seeing two different Chara’s pre and post-Flubber flip.

Yep, i agree, when i lose by lynching my buddy i try to get him lynched about four times over the course of the dayphase, great plan

(I'm also going to point out that i'm like ... the only person here who has played this setup as scum before so its pretty easy to check how i would play this as scum - and i'm so ridiculously out of my scumrange for this kind of game)

[skitter30]

VOTE: reck

[skitter30]

It reminds me of the game you were in with the mod. Where she caught you fake claiming as vig.

Do you spectate a lot of games?

[skitter30]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78089

[skitter30]

^^^^ this one

[skitter30]

then again everyone fell for the stupid IC claim so i wonder if where the wagons went even mattered.

Well, i didnt

yes, you did. you unvoted him and the wagons went back to Xtoxm. disbelieving it didn't matter when his goal was only to survive and he was given that.

Eh fair. It didnt really occur to me that the game would turn into extradition mafia overnight, i thought we would just lynch him today when it was proven fake

Ok lets now talk about why you wanted xtoxm over flubber yesterday, vefore the ic claim

[skitter30]

Ok lets now talk about why you wanted xtoxm over flubber yesterday, vefore the ic claim

i really hated Xtoxm's play. i laid out why i thought he was scum yesterday, as well.
i thought Flubber was scummy too but at the point i voted Xtoxm while talking to Flubber my thought was that scum would be less likely to interact with me this way, so Xtoxm was the better choice.

So at some point yesterday i noted that there just werent 7 people willing to lynch flubber, and i noted that the resistance to it was sketchy af since although he had a couple of townreads nobody could articulate a good reason to townread him (reck's 'his votes feel town!' Is ... not good in light of the flip)

So i'm pretty sure scum are in that group of around 6 people or so who couldnt/wouldnt lynch him. I'll go back to the relevant vc later (ie after work prob) to see who exactly is in that group and i'd bet thats at least one scum is in there, if not both

And yeah you're in that group for me rn. I know Elbirn's in that group too but i'm fairly confident he's town anyways (he wanted *neither* of the two wagons, and wasnt just opposed to flubber)

[skitter30]

I’m now thinking Flubber/ with one or both of Chara/Tris or maybe I should sheep Ank and you on Reck. The problem is, I no longer trust Chara. She’s the only one whose reads did a complete 180 as a result of that flip. And Chara just happened to be online soon after and unlike Ank, didn’t really seem terribly shocked by it, so even if Reck is scum, she could still be bussing.

I have a really hard time believing your reads when they seem to be predicated on how people are reading you

[skitter30]

If you're town here i think that's prob going to have to happen. I just got to work so i only like skimmed your reck case cuz i'm voting there anyways.

But i'd like to pick up on these threads tonight after work

[skitter30]

Why would Flubber need to do anything when the wagon on him is already stalled? All he needs to do is not say anything too scummy and he's already set to be released from being today's lynch. The support against the wagons is not going to get higher than it already is without a huge centralized push as it is until it gets too close to deadline. Plus my influence is actually waning over time, and there is the very real threat that if it gets low enough, the wagons will dissipate if for no better reason because I'm trying to lead them.

yeah i was tallying up the votes on friday and was thinking that like .... there really aren't 7 people willing to lynch flubber rn i think and i'm really puzzled as to why that is because there's at best like three people townreading him (for like dubious reasons imo)

like i'm not sure why there's so much resistance here

Votecount 2.5

Flubbernugget(5)

~ Creature(47), Succinct(15), NotMySpamAccount(25), skitter30(110), tris(16)

Xtoxm(2)

~ Chara(66), Nimueh(172)

tris(2)

~ xRECKONERx(25), Elbirn(32)

Chara(1)

~ Flubbernugget(43)

Ankamius(1)

~ Xtoxm(29)


Not Voting (1): Ankamius(219)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 23:56:59).

there weren't 7 votes for flubber when i wrote this

so i think that there's at least one scum in the people offwagon, if not both
(for the purposes of this i'm counting ank as being onwagon because she was willing to switch to flubber; the wagon was really stalled at 6 including her and i didn't think there was another vote)

xtoxm and flubber flipped, so that leaves at least one scum in {chara, nimueh, reck, elbirn}

and i think that the likelihood of them being scum is in the following order: reck >> nimuh > chara >>>> elbirn

elbirn i feel very confident is town
chara is above the null line but them being in this group is making me a little :/
nimueh
and i'm voting reck

[skitter30]

i'm in middle of checking the context of you being willing to switch to flubber, give me a couple of min to check; idk rn cuz i don't remember
ank seemed very conscpicuously interested in wagoning and flubber and i remember at least once where i got spooked off of xtoxm and she just switched to voting him to get me to go along with her flubber/xtoxm solve

from what i remember you were more 'i'll switch to flubber if needed' but iirc unlike ank you didn't actually *do* anything to make me think you would have (and you stayed off of him at l-2). like you said it but you didn't do anything to back it up with convinction if that makes sense

but again in middle of checking what you said when because this is all off of memory

[skitter30]

... i'm not sure what that's a response to

[skitter30]

i'm not taking them out of the lynchpool so much as i *strongly* believe that there's scum in the group of people offwagon by virtue of the fact that the lynch on flubber was stalled because of it and want to sort through them first

[skitter30]

i mean yes but i would be *shocked* if all 4 of the people in taht group were town and that a flubber lynch couldn't go through with both scum onwagon

[skitter30]

i mean if nobody in that group were scum we're basically saying that in a game where scum have to conftown 5 people if scum get lynched they were both on wagon and the lynch *still* couldn't happen

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

I'm looking for scum between you and succinct at the moment. Has that not been clear?

no, i can see what you're saying you're doing, but how is that vote useful?
all your recent posts are just replies to me. it doesn't feel like sorting.

Xtoxm pushing tris here after Brigitte flipped town after pretty carelessly choosing to keep his vote on Brigitte even while the tris wagon built up, with absolutely no comment on any of tris's posting beforehand, is either lazy or scum.
and calling out Ank for "lining up mislynches" when he's literally done that is a major lack of gamestate awareness, same as his shading of Ank without any real evidence when she's a pretty impossible lynch at this point.
he just isn't really doing anything. if he's town he needs to get in this game. if he's scum he's coasting. i think it's the latter.
okay with lynching Flubber.

Part pressure, part not letting it go to waste, part not being impressed by succinct's current responses. Basic mafia 101 stuff. This is useless shade.

and this is different from skitter's vote on you how...?

(this post would be actual shade to you. you're welcome!)

looking town, being town. same thing really. :>
i sure am putting a lot of effort into that.

you're not out of my scumlist, but i'm more convinced i'd rather lynch Xtoxm over you. that's all. assigning all of this motivation that isn't there to my posting, the way you're doing it looks more like suspicious town. and the vote on me in reaction to my poke, too.

i'd like feedback on this, however, considering the suspicion on Flubber.

you say that like this conversation was pointless to me.
VOTE: Xtoxm

so i didn't like this convo on your end super much, because i'm not sure how you ended up on with suspicious town here or why your vote ended up on xtoxm in middle of it; i thought that this convo was quite awful on flubber's end (esp. with his subsequent vote on you) and is one of the reasons why i thought he was scum

really? it just looks like he's given up.
what i find unlikely is town Xtoxm flailing like this.

pedit: deep sigh.

or like this immediately after i get spooked off of xtoxm and go back onto flubber

Xtoxm's play is frustratimgly unhelpful if town and

i want him to be scum. the petulant part of me wants to tell town Xtoxm "i'm town too, talk to me about

something

' but he refuses to be helpful or explain himself and the takes he puts out continue to be bad,

like saying skitter's read change is scummy in spite of the very long amount of time it took for her to make that change. it's so much easier to say he's scum.
Flubber's IC claim is at least concrete, we can just wait for day 3.

i also don't think tris has been towny.
but in spite of being frustrated with Xtoxm's angle here if he is scum, and wondering if he's town for that, i also hate his angle as town. the only reason to think he's town is the AtE, and it's a bad reason and i know that.

i'll lynch tris if it comes to it but i feel Xtoxm is objectively better.

the bolded i think is townie; waiting for the ic claim is idk

@chara some comments inside the spoiler
so like on balance i think you've said some things that feel townie but like the continued insistence of xtoxm over flubber in this context is just :/ not that great given the flip and given the setup and given where i'm looking for scum rn

like while the flubber wagon was building you were repeatedly pushing xtoxm, and i did not get the vibe that you would really switch to flubber unless it was like necessary for a deadline lynch or something (hence why i didn't count you as a potential vote for flubber there) and then after the ic thing you were just 'ok he claimed ic we can figure it out tomorrow' and idk in this setup that whole trajectory kinda looks partner-y to me

how annoyed you were at xtoxm did feel genuine/kinda townie tho

[skitter30]

well, when you put it like that...
but surely 1 scum on and 1 scum off is likely? i don't think both scum off is likely either, is the problem. hunting off the Flubber wagon is the normal thing to do, and considering scum just lose outright upon any of them being lynched

now

, i really expect bussing happened. they had to have been planning ahead. you all did in that game and our team did in the laser tag game i linked.

i mean yeah
that's why there basically has to be at least one scum in that group imo, the gamestate would be so incredibly bizarre if there weren't that i honestly don't understand what scum could/would have been doing there; it just doesn't compute

idk if both off or 1off/1on but i would be the game on at least one scum being there and so i'm going to find them

the wagon itself is kinda gross too tbh; not sure how i'd rank the people on wagon as most-to-least likely to be scum

[skitter30]

i'd like your opinion on my Reck case.

which bit are you referring to here?

[skitter30]

bleh idk how well i said this
basically none of that is impossible or particularly unlikely to come from town!you but it *also* looks exactly what i think a partner would be doing there which is why i'm feeling kinda :/ about it rn

[skitter30]

i'd like your opinion on my Reck case.

which bit are you referring to here?

everything i posted at the beginning of day 3.
read it again if you like. do you think i can fake sorting through posts and doing my best to solve off the cuff like that? because i really can't. my scum solving is pretty good but in comparison to the fever at trying to win that i felt then it just doesn't compare.

yeah so i think your start of day3 is pretty townie; there's a couple of things there that i thought were unlikely to come from scum
like i think that *you* have been kinda townie but your associatives are ... not good and it's preventing me from being comfortable townbinning you rn

i read your reck thing and i don't have much to say about it honestly

[skitter30]

Like out of everybody who has posted, skitter and reck are the two that haven't tried to bounce back and re-search for the scumteam

I don't like this

i don't think this is particularly fair or accurate wrt me

[skitter30]

bleh idk how well i said this
basically none of that is impossible or particularly unlikely to come from town!you but it *also* looks exactly what i think a partner would be doing there which is why i'm feeling kinda :/ about it rn

it just really bothers me that you keep bringing up the IC thing when you and Ank also immediately unvoted when you heard it. like... yes, that's what a scumpartner would say there. it's also what a lot of town would say.

i know, yes, it looks bad that i wanted Xtoxm over Flubber and pushed him over Flubber.
the townpings you're getting, that you've noted multiple times this game? listen to those. there's a reason they keep showing up. scum Chara is a coward, it's a lot harder for me to get those pings as scum.

do you think scum Reck reacts like he's doing here? am i wrong for wondering about it?

it's not the ic thing that's bothering me the most, it's the not being willing to vote/lynch flubber before the claim (the vc i quoted is before the ic claim - that's where the resistance was and where i think scum is and you *were* part of that
while i was going through your iso i saw the ic thing so i mentioned it but i don't find it inherently scummy really, only worth noting in the broader trajectory

and yeah the townpings are why i'm not full-out scumreading you rn and why i'm not liek trying to lynch you or anything
because you *have* said a bunch of things that i don't think come from scum

but like i'm trying to sort through the flubber associatives thing and i can't just drop your part of it because there were some townpings

wrt to reck - idk i'm still kinda reading through what was posted today and i'm undecided; let me get back to you once i've finished reading

[skitter30]

If you're town here i think that's prob going to have to happen. I just got to work so i only like skimmed your reck case cuz i'm voting there anyways.

But i'd like to pick up on these threads tonight after work

so why did you vote Reck?

cuz his reason for not voting flubber was handsdown the worst

[skitter30]

then i kept seeing him do scummy things and would vote him only to remind myself "wait shit he did that stuff early game that makes him town" so i unvoted

like i guess idk why that early stuff made such a strong impression on you that it kept on making you unvote even after seeing him do scummy stuff later

[skitter30]

like the most defense i can give you is that if i was scum w/ flubber, im intelligent enough not to be so fucking awkward around him as to vote him then unvote TWICE.

i mean, yeah, fair idk why scum!you would do this either but like ... there's gotta be scum offwagon and your reason for townreading him was awful so like this defense is basically asking me to believe that you wouldn't be that bad/obviously associated with your partner if you're scum and i have no way of knowing if that is or isn't true really

[skitter30]

nmsa is still also being awful but like on some level i think he might be lynchbait and i'm not sure i want to spend the one mislynch on him if he's town if that makes sense?

[skitter30]

Skitter can make plans like these, but planning specific details down to the wire enough to parry this kind of gamestate indirectly probably is out of her range

so in this context 'mastermind' means: plan an intricate bus on flubber?
i could plan it sure, don't think scum!me could carry it out as well as i would have had to here
idk why scum!me would want to bus flubber here either tho (because if i'm bussing him that started fairly early on day2 and i tried repeatedly to get him wagoned)

[skitter30]

That's too easy, but what about NMSA/Elbirn?

i *really* don't know why you're scumreading elbirn

[skitter30]

i think i'm decent enough at reading gamestates that i could sense what i would need to do to make that happen but i don't think i'm good enough at scum to actually do it well if that makes sense

i kinda tried pulling something kinda similar in the last extradition mafia actually (tried to not-bus a50 for most of the game; pretty sure nobody thought we were aligned in the end; i got caught for other reasons) but what i would have had to do here is on another level i think; don't think scum!me could pull it off the way i did here

like i'm *very* hyper-aware of where that line is and i know how to get close to it but i'm very scared of going overboard at the same time

but this is all self-meta so :shrug:

[skitter30]

i mean really?

[skitter30]

@mod semi vla till friday

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter

Town!her would have absolutely demonstrated even an iota of progression on my slot by this point and after reading ISOing her in that similar scumgame, she has made way too many self-conscious references to setup spec, which sound very similar to the ISO in the link to that scum PT. I don’t buy that anyone that much aware of the very similar setup mechanics between this game and Townsquare, would have being that quick to believe Flubber IC claim.

you seem to be completely glossing over some key points here - ie that i've said repeatedly that i can't untangle my read on you from all the associated baggage and so i've stopped trying to read you. Its kinda shitty to put me in a situation where you know i dont want to interact with you and then scumread me for not trying to read you

And i dont think its fair either to scumread me for backincnn off the ic claim in this setup given that i didnt, like, know that it was this setup till today. Yeah there were some artificial similarities that i noted as the game started but by then the setup looked different enough that it didnt really occur to me that the game might like randomly transition to this setup. If it was public knowledge, yeah, i would have been even more skeptical of the ic claim but i dont really think its fair to scumread me for not treating the game as being the same setup as jingle's game when there was nothing at that point indicating that this game would transition into it given that the obvious indicator (scum leaving the game n1) hadnt happened.

Like at that point in the game i had noticed some superficial similarities (alternate wincon, no nk) but it seemed obvious by day2 that it wasnt that setup given the lack of scum leaving overnight. And like i cant exactly predict the future, i was going by what i knew of the setup at the time coupled with making comparisons to.the most similar game i knew, even if it wasnt quite the same thing

And i had even gotten flak day1 for pointing out the similarities too

And like comparing my setup spec here (ie in the main thread) to what i said in a scum pt is silly, it would make more sense to compare what i said here to the main thread of that game; obviously i'm going yo be more open about my thoughts in a scum pt than in a main thread and like if i'm scum here i know how to keep my setup spec 'public knowledge apropriate' in the game thread

I think that's probably what i want to say to this, not sure if i'm going go respond to your resposnse tbh, not really interested in getting in another fight really.

If *anyone else* has concerns about what nim said lmk

[skitter30]

As scum in Townsquare, she should have been more skeptical about Flubber’s IC claim, because if you ISO her in THIS game, she has far more awareness of the setup than anyone else in the game and in your post, there is no scum in the game, so clearly you’re incorrectly tr SOMEONE. So, if you disagree with my Skitter vote, who do you think is better?

Also notice that all of the things you're pointing out as being 'tmi setup spec' happened *day1* when there were enough superficial indicators that this setup was similar to jingle's game that i was considering that the game might have the same setup

When no scum left n1 i dropped that idea on day2 because that was the main feature of that setup so i was no longer thinking that the game might be extradition mafia; it didnt occur to me that it might transition to that later and at that point i had been coming up eith alternate ideas for what the setup was

And that's it, not responding anymore before i get frustrated again

[skitter30]

What I do care about, is you total lack of progression on my slot, which doesn’t require you to interact with me directly but show some demonstration of critically reading my posts

I'm not, I've said repeatedly that I'm doing my best not to read them

[skitter30]

However, that said, the setup spec/IC thing/ post suggesting one or both votes are “offwagon”,

If there arent scum offwagon i'd be shocked. There just weren 7 votes to lynch him there and like no scum being offwagon means both were onwagon in a game where they'd have to conftown 5 people on his flip and they couldnt lynch him *despite* both of them being onwagon. That part of the game just doesnt make sense if there arent scum offwagon there

(And again it seems to me that you dont like ir because you happen to be in that group so)

[skitter30]

then i kept seeing him do scummy things and would vote him only to remind myself "wait shit he did that stuff early game that makes him town" so i unvoted

like i guess idk why that early stuff made such a strong impression on you that it kept on making you unvote even after seeing him do scummy stuff later

I really like leaning on early gut reads since I think first impressions are really strong

i mean i guess i can see that this could be a thing but like in context it doesn't make me feel much better about your trajectory on him

[skitter30]

However, that said, the setup spec/IC thing/ post suggesting one or both votes are “offwagon”,

If there arent scum offwagon i'd be shocked. There just weren 7 votes to lynch him there and like no scum being offwagon means both were onwagon in a game where they'd have to conftown 5 people on his flip and they couldnt lynch him *despite* both of them being onwagon. That part of the game just doesnt make sense if there arent scum offwagon there

(And again it seems to me that you dont like ir because you happen to be in that group so)

What I do care about, is you total lack of progression on my slot, which doesn’t require you to interact with me directly but show some demonstration of critically reading my posts

I'm not, I've said repeatedly that I'm doing my best not to read them

No, I don’t like it because you’re not on that list. Therefore, I can’t completely rule out any self-interest on your part, I don’t think it’s at all cool that you are making virtually no attempt to sort me in this game. How is that at all pro-town?

a) i never said or implied it was pro-town, it's pro my sanity and my emotional health. i'm really not interested in trying to sort you, sorry, the way you react to things fucks with my head too much and i just ... don't want to do it and don't want to read your posts or try to interact with you; i don't know why i'm responding to you rn tbh; apparently i'm bad at leaving things alone.

if the game suffers because i'm not sorting someone so be it; i'd rather it be that way than getting into another argument. (again, for the four thousandth time, i think it's kinda anti the spirit of the game to not try to sort people but like ... you put me in this situation so given that you know taht i don't want to play with you and that you know i don't like to read your posts i'm again not sure what you want me to do here; if you think what i'm doing is anti-town don't put me in situations where this is what i'm going to do as a result)

b) i mean, i was right on flubber, and i wanted that lynch to happen yesterday. it didn't, and given the flip, yeah i'm going to try to figure out what went wrong there, and you *were* part of the reason the lynch didn't go through. you're basically dinging me for being *right* when a lynch failed to happen because *other people (including you!)* refused to vote there for no good reason even though *i* tried to make it happen multiple times.

[skitter30]

I feel like that plan would have been risky. People aren't guaranteed to believe the claim. Skitter in particular would have known that I knew about the game she had been in, so I could have pointed out the possibility.

this is a good point because skitter's also aware i spectated that, so that's two different players who could have called her out.
and if we're going by associatives skitter was pushing Flub too. and even if the IC claim was planned, i'd bet anything it was as a backup at best.

i mean i like to imagine that if i were scum here i wouldnt' pull the *exact same thing* as i did last time in a game where two people specced that game

i also like to imagine that the ic claim would have been better thought out if i were scum; like i'd have to have repeatedly been pushing a wagon onto him knowing that he would clumsily and badly claim ic ... it would have been much much much easier to just go with the xtoxm wagon when ank was pressuring me to join there like four times yesterday. like idk why scum!me gets spooked off of xtoxm twice while pushing my own partner for a cw instead of just ... taking the easy mislynch when it was repeateadly offered to me

does this game even have daytalk .... ? if no then the clumsy ic claim makes more sense tbh

[skitter30]

In this particular setup, with a guaranteed flip and no complete bussing, scum ideally needs to both credibly distance and back off in order to push their partner. The fake IC claim is the ideal way to set up partner distancing, if you think about it, so Skitter knowing you might “catch” her, is not remotely a persuasive argument. As I already stated, she was scum in that setup. has made numerous TMI sounding posts about setup spec but nevertheless demonstrates 0 skepticism over Flubber IC claim. Why are you not even considering this as a possibility?

i mean if i were scum here the claim wouldn't have been nearly as clumsy
(i mean at least assuming there's daytalk?)

if not then this is a valid argument

[skitter30]

i mean it was pretty obviously a not-real claim
but yeah i thought we'd just lynch him today over it
it didn't occur to me that the game would become extradition mafia overnight

[skitter30]

:shrug:
it's not nai and i also don't particularly care if you read me correctly so

[skitter30]

oh that reminds me: is forgetting that the game is nightless ai at all?

i made that post cuz iirc reck had a post forgetting that the agme is nightless
and i think that scum would usually be more self-aware than that in this setup

i should prob go back and look at the context

[skitter30]

P.edit. @Tris. It’s completely irrelevant at what point she jumped off of Flubber really. It does however look good for NMSA that he stayed on Flubber until after irrelevant Xtoxm non-hammer.

i mean i also jumped back on like three times over the course of the dayphase, but sure

[skitter30]

i also like to imagine that the ic claim would have been better thought out if i were scum; like i'd have to have repeatedly been pushing a wagon onto him knowing that he would clumsily and badly claim ic ... i

t would have been much much much easier to just go with the xtoxm wagon when ank was pressuring me to join there like four times yesterday. like idk why scum!me gets spooked off of xtoxm twice while pushing my own partner for a cw instead of just ... taking the easy mislynch when it was repeateadly offered to me

@nimueh if i'm scum why don't i just do this instead of pushing flubber at all ...?

[skitter30]

and also i can read gamestates and noted like 30 posts before the ic claim that there weren't 7 people willing to lynch him ... why does scum!me tell him to claim ic there *at all* when i knew that he probably wasn't imminently getting lynched anyways

[skitter30]

i gotta bounce now for ~2 hours or so but i'm happy to continue this later

idk really how to respond to 'feels weird' tbh; it's not something concrete that i cn talk to you about because i don't know what 'feels weird' means exactly

i disagree that my posts are agenda-y or that i was subtly trying to sabotage you (again, when you wanted flubber/xtoxm i repeatedly decided to push my partner and get spooked off the mislynch more than once even though you were pressuring me to join the mislynch????)

and i'm not really interested in tris rn ... as evidenced by the fact that i'm not voting her rn like i said i would at the end of the day; in light of the flip + context there's other people that are scummier

but yeah i gotta bounce i'll be around later at some point

[skitter30]

2294 looks even worse with a flubber scumflip, skitter

honestly, i don't care, because i listened to my gut and it was right. i was right on brigitte and i was right on xtoxm and i was right on flubber and at the start of day2 my gut said flubber was rthe righ tplace to push and so i did.

it was teh same voice that tells me where to vote in lylo (i've never voted wrong in lylo, and i've been in many) and so long as i'm not tunneled my gut is pretty trustworthy so i'm making a point to listen to it more, even before lylo. and i'm 3/3 so far this game listening to it this game

i got (and am getting) flak for it but i was the first person to push there iirc so yeah i'm pretty impressed with myself tbh

(and let's also assume that i'm good enough at scum that i, like, know how to make busses look good and realistic and like not awkward and that i'm *very* good at screwing with associatives

let's also assume that in a game where i'd have to conftown 5 people upon the flip of a partner i would have like zero interest in purposefully bussing him because that makes the game that much harder for me and i hate playing scum with a passion and i have like no interest in making it significantly harder for myself on purpose; i also don't think i can outargue enough people to protect myself/third partner after conftowning 5 people unless i was scum with exactly like you or maybe chara in this pl and like i think i'd do my best to ensure that the game didn't come down to that because that honestly sounds lawful for me to try to play. like jingle's game was handsdown my least favorite scumgame ever and bussing here day1/day2 would make that hellish nightmare of a setup even worse for me to play)

and that's the problem skitter

when I look for slots that look like they're trying to chip away at the supports of my position, you jump up to the #1 spot

xtoxm turned out to be town and
when I start becoming less hinged, you supported breaking it down

I can't get over my gut telling me that your approach was just

wrong

this entire time and I only picked up on it in specific points
I can't get over my gut telling me that your approach at the beginning of the game was too jagged to be town

something about your play is just... not town

and I'm fucking pissed off about it because I not only can't explain it in a way that would make sense for everybody else, but I know that if I tried, you're charismatic enough to shut it down regardless of alignment

I have no idea how to continue with that from here

a) i don't think i was chipping away at your position and i don't know where you think i was doing that
b) i don't think my approach to this game was wrong
c) i protested xtoxm (the mislynch) and tried to get support to the other half of your solve (the actual scum) while supporting your solve overall and trying to lynch the actual scum in the pair; i don't know how that's breaking it down. the one time i actually protested your solve was after flubber claimed ic and i got spooked on xtoxm again, at the very very end of the day. my gut said xtoxm wasn't scum so i listened and unvoted and flubber wasn't really viable at that point anymore. even then though i was considering lynching xtoxm for the sake of the solve even though i thought it was wrong and *you told me* that you had given up on it at that point so i didn't vote there. i dont' know how in any of htat you read what i did as breaking down what you were doing given that *i was doing what you wanted* for most of the dayphase ffs
d) beginning of the game was kinda jagged, i agree; i had started a new job with a longish commute and then moved again to be closer to it and didn't have super much time for this

i disagree that my posts are agenda-y or that i was subtly trying to sabotage you (again, when you wanted flubber/xtoxm i repeatedly decided to push my partner and get spooked off the mislynch more than once even though you were pressuring me to join the mislynch????)

I can see you being scum in spite of that anyways, you got spooked off the tris wagon d1 too and iirc you were ambivalent about the Brigitte wagon

if you wanted Brigitte dead and didn't want to be seen directly supporting it, you joining the tris wagon and then hopping off when it got traction makes sense
your reads have gone from strong to weak to strong to weak throughout the game, I'd have to double check but I suspect they coincide with when the gamestate muddies or not

like... idk

you've said you are a competent gamestate reader, I could potentially see you even being willing to eat the flubber lynch if both you and your partner were in a good enough spot to either out-charisma me or to direct reads towards mislynches twice in a row

a) i get spooked off of day1 lynches ... all the time and it's not ai (if anything i'd argue it's town indicative because i do it in probably more than half of towngames and i don't think i've ever done that in a scumgame; i'm a lot more rigid as scum and am more careful and more worried about how i'll look wagon-hopping. as town i really don't care how people perceive me because i believe in what i'm doing and can thus outargue just about anything)

b) i was *not* ambivalent about the brigitte wagon; i thought she was town (and i got flak for that read too!) and stayed off of the wagon because of it. i did *not* want her dead

c) i mean i think my reads becoming weaker coincide with teh gamestate being muddy - the reads become weak *because* the gamestate is muddy, not the other way around.

d) i would have like zero interest eating a flubber lynch day2 and making the game/setup that much harder for myself. i hate this setup with a passion and i don't want to *ever* play it again as scum and i don't want to make it even harder.

(like i'm on the record saying that and my scumgame would have had to improve a ridiculous amount between jingle's game and this game for me to be scum here given how i played that one)

i said this above but like the only team taht scum!me woudl even consider doing this with would be like you or chara and i don't think i even had this impression of of you at the start of the game, it developed as the game went on. there aren't that many people here that i'd trust to be capable enough o not eat a lynch day3/day4 (especially in a smaller lynchpool!) and i'm not confident enough in my own scumgame to think that i could evade a lynch twice in this game either. i have ... a lot more charisma as town and i'm a lot more confident in my ability to outargue people when i'm town. i don't really have charisma when i'm scum (or at least, not to nearly the same extent) and i don't have the confidence necessary to really handle that sort of gamestate well. and i know this so i would like never purposefully do that to myself

and like i would have had to start day2 planning on hard-bussing my partner and pushing it throughout the day and then letting myself off on a bad/clumsy/awful ic claim (if i had planned this it would have been neater, trust me) about thirty posts after i noted that he wasn't actually lynchable at that moment (like why does he claim ic there if i know that he isn't getting lynched?)

i also don't direct mislynches as scum; that's not my style really

[skitter30]

I'm just compromised

I'm stepping back for a day or two

fair enough

[skitter30]

Oh wait wtf I didnt want that

I went back to see what about Brigitte flip was so compelling and there wasnt one

Pedit: ARGGGHHH WALLS OF NONSENSE

brigitte was being bad and anti-town adn was purposefully riling up reck - iirc that's where the impetus for that wagon came from
and then iirc it stuck around for a while and she was getting close to being deadline lynched and then succinct said they liked the brigitte wagon more than the tris wagon and voted for brigitte and then brigitte got pissed off and self-hammered

[skitter30]

skitter's town.
why did Nim think the setup was mountainous? it's a good question.

yeah idk that was weird
noting that it's cool again to be suspicious of nim

[skitter30]

the sample role pm in the op basically shows a crewman to be a vt

[skitter30]

elbirn's town
and i think that reck should be in that pool too
but i agree with the other three, glad that people are finally coming 'round on nimueh/creature

[skitter30]

idk what 'reck should not be cleared tomorrow' means

[skitter30]

yeah i think nimueh may be scum but i went down that road already and like i'm not going to push it unless there's a *large* consensus already because i don't want to start that fight again. if it becomes viable i'll join it in a heartbeat but like i'm not interested in dealing with her reaction to this if it isn't going to go anywhere

i think reck should be in the scumpool too

[skitter30]

i don't understand the question

[skitter30]

i mean a vt flip != mountainous

[skitter30]

There are 3 Mafia and 10 Vanilla Townies.

yes, but the trick is that we weren't told that was the setup till here, which is decidedly not on pg1

[skitter30]

it doesn't say anywhere that everyone else was crewman. calling a collective group of an unknown number of people 'crew' doesn't make them crewman in the mafia sense (ie vt). like i could imagine a ship-themed game where regular crewmen were vt and other people were a cook or carpenter or lieutenant or ensign or whatever else and be part of the collective group of 'crew' and have a special name/role as a pr and thus not be a crewman/vt

and determinign the setup is mountainous based ont he flavor is ?????? if it was meant to be read as 10:3 mountainous in the op it would have just said that i'm pretty sure


and seriously? this is why i don't like interacting with you. disagreeing with you != misrepping ffs

[skitter30]

No, it doesnt spell out mountainous. Spelling it out would have been posting in the op: 'this game is 10:3 mountainous

It means it's flavor and if it was meant to describe the setup it would have been explictly stated somewhere in the op.

You're also changing your story wrt where you got the notion of 'mountainous' from - it was originally from your role pm and brigitte's flip

Pedit ffs i didnt say i was scumreafing you for this

[skitter30]

You were literally locktown until you scumslipped
And then I did in fact reconsider my read
I am sorting you
You're just scum.

Please lynch this. No way in hell does this kind of post ever come from town.

Just tell us who’s your partner? Is it Reck or someone else?

elbirn's town

[skitter30]

Who besides Nimueh was/is townreading creature?

I am.
It'd be lying to say townread's same strength, but experience tells me

not

to let paranoia dictate my read there, to trust my townread.

i don't see it

[skitter30]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

[skitter30]

Due to PoE, I am thinking Elbirn is mafia. I don't really townread him anymore. I'm also back to townreading nimueh.

VOTE: Elbirn

Pedit: I would like a response to that argument.

he's like my second-most confident townread

[skitter30]

Due to PoE, I am thinking Elbirn is mafia. I don't really townread him anymore. I'm also back to townreading nimueh.

VOTE: Elbirn

Pedit: I would like a response to that argument.

he's like my second-most confident townread

Why is that?

idk exactly
his posts feel real
his frustration feels real
his thought processes feel real

idk how to explain better withouit like iso-ing him and pulling out specific posts and idk if i'm willing to do that rn

but like nothing he's said feels fake or fabricated and i follow along with most of his thoughts

[skitter30]

Scumteam has to be Elbirn/Reck. I think it’s Flubber/Elbirn/Reck and I’ve solved the game. If I’m right, I want bragging rights.

again, ill ask: what part of me/flub interacting makes sense SvS

uh the fact that you badly townread him the whole time he was alive and refused to vote him

there is more subtext to interactions than TOWN MAN DEFEND BAD MAN TOWN MAN BAD MAN

ok what subtext do you think i'm ignoring in this specific context?

[skitter30]

Just realized. We ought to be careful about putting someone at L-1. If they're town, and there is mafia off-wagon, they could quickhammer and then leave the following night.

this is kinda townie

[skitter30]

if you want me to look past it you're going to have to explain why it doesn't look svs because from where i'm sitting it looks *very* svs

yeah i know that townies defend scum, sure. in this setup doing so is a lot more egregious tho and imo deserves a lot more scrutiny

[skitter30]

hello i'm about ten pages behind or so and my motivation has been like completely sapped with the ank rep-out but i'm going to try to catch up now

[skitter30]

ok but if there's no other tethers besides the fact i defended him then where does that leave you
like seriously.
me and flub both doing the "vote someone oh shit unvote immediately" thing d1?
flub specifically ignoring me because i was pushing his name out as town?

idk man i feel like im not so bad i would play this way if flub was my buddy

uh that's a *pretty* big tether in this setup, and i don't think it ought to just be ignored
i don't think you and flubber both 'voting someone and immediately unvote' means anything really wrt associatives
i don't remember where he specifically ignored you; if you want to pull that out i'll take a look at it

your defense is basically 'i'm too scummy to be scum!' and i'm not sure i trust that here rn

[skitter30]

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

like are you usually this bad as town?

[skitter30]

Xtoxm is town, Elbirn is hard scum now.

i don't think elbirn's resistance ot the flubber wagon was scummy actually; it felt like he couldn't understand what on earth ank was doing and he didn't want to join something he didn't understand (which is why he resisted *both* xtoxm and flubber), rather than pushing against flubber specifically

he could have just joined xtoxm there tbh if he was scum instead of resisting against both

[skitter30]

To put it in other terms, Succinct was never

pushing

Flubbernugget, he was only

voting

him.

Again, I had the same doubts as you yesterday, which was why I hesitated temporarily switched back to Elbirn. But upon re-analysis I believe this is the best conclusion.

yeah iirc at the end of day1 they had a fairly strong fairly mysterious scumread on flubber (like, way before it was popular) and like i asked about it but it never got explained and succinct decidedly pushed brigitte over like pushign flubber at any point
tbf that was *fairly* close to eod so there might not have been time to actually push flubber there but i don't remember the two of them interacting like *at all*
i don't even remember the context of succinct's vote on flubber

[skitter30]

Creature > skitter30 > tris = Ankamius > Nimueh > Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara (need more on all of these) > Flubbernugget = Brigitte

Apologies. I do what I can, but succinctness does not foster activity.

VOTE: Flubbernugget
Still a scumread.
Vaguely lean Xtoxm/Chara town, but those're gut; I have no evidence backing reads up.
Think remaining two're in xRECKONERx/NotMySpamAccount/Elbirn.

yeah this isn't a particularly good vote tbh
and there's like no mention of flubber in their iso before this besides for the like the afore-mentioned scumread which is meh

i guess the one thign i'm wondering is that if succinct is scum here i don't think she could expect to get towncred for this vote really

[skitter30]

not sure i follow?

i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it

however, i think the interactions between me n flub arent svs if you really look at them with a deeper critical eye

i do think that if you're scum with Flubber, your interactions with him are pretty ridiculous and would indicate misplays as scum.
but i'm not comfortable ignoring the possibility that scum you made a mistake, because it's easier to see why scum you makes those decisions in error, as scum (distancing mistakes), than why town you does it. (forgetting that you townread him a few times is just so strange to me.)

this basically

[skitter30]

is this early game distancing between Reck and Enter or am i too far gone down the rabbit hole?
there's probably no way to actually tell and i'm jumping at nothing because it might fit with what i think the team is.

that rvs interaction didn't feel svs to me

[skitter30]

I think last scum is skitter30. No longer interested in NMSA or Elbirn.

do tell

[skitter30]

this isn't AtE but i do need to say this for context:
i have an extremely bad drinking problem and uh a lot of those "forgetting" moments happen when i've already been drinking and just blindly barge into thread and try to read and then have a moment of clarity of "wait no"

i don't expect that to change your mind, but i wanted to put it out there. i forget that most of the people who know me IRL and have known me a long time dont really play on the site anymore or have moved on to mish mash so some of those things about me that i think are obvious arent as obvious to the playerbase anymore

this is actually kinda helpful context, i appreciate you saying this

[skitter30]

@mod, if game doesn’t end today, does scum get an NK, in addition to the escape?

Yes. This nightkill is mandatory.

huh

[skitter30]

You apparently missed a few posts pushing Flubber significantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.

you're not really pushing him in any of these tho
you declare him to be scum and then meh vote him and then offhandedly call him scum in one line of a few different wallposts
you never interacted with him
you never really explaiend why he's scum besides lolmeta at any point
you never like *tried* to get him lynched. yeah you voted him but that's not really the same thing as trying to lynch him
like i think you're overstating how hard you're pushign him here

[skitter30]

yeah i can do this
VOTE: succinct

[skitter30]

Creature > skitter30 > tris = Ankamius > Nimueh > Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara (need more on all of these) > Flubbernugget = Brigitte

boy am i interested in hearing more about these (specifically: me, creature, chara, nimueh, and tris)

oh i thought i had asked about flubber here but apparently i didn't

@succinct

did you like go back to check this post?

[skitter30]

You'll also not remember me interacting with most players this game, because few have engaged me. Flubber's nothing special in that regard.

i mean really?
like i shouldn't look askance at the fact that you haven't engaged with flubber (your biggest scumread!) because you haven't engaged with *anyone* because they haven't engaged with you?

that's like shifting your responsibility for sorting people off of your shoulders and onto everyone else's

[skitter30]

Nimueh is FA?

no

[skitter30]

VOTE: Succinct

Need I remind you: until Elbirn cast this vote, he was the lead wagon.
Prior to this point, he's shown zero scumread of me.

It's survivalism/opportunism at its finest.

elbirn's still town

[skitter30]

elbirn's at l-2 {nimueh, tris, reck, succinct}
i don't really townread like any of those people
if this wagon happens and he flips town i'm going to be more than a little bit annoyed

(@reck if you're on the wrong wagon for a third day in a row .... that would be like stretching credulity at that point, no matter how bad you say your play is rn)

[skitter30]

i didn't realize you unvoted
like i guess tris is more likely town than not but i don't really feel it
i don't think in a game where there's exactly one spare mislynch i'd really be interested in lynching her ever rn tho; there's much scummier people about

[skitter30]

yeah i'm starting to get kinda burnt-out too
there's too much bloat in this game
and not really getting anywhere conclusive

[skitter30]

too many replacements and it's starting to become hard even for me to keep track of everything

[skitter30]

okay i'll agree with that.
Enter's replace out and the leadup to it was really towny and i should just concentrate on that regardless of how i feel about Succinct. there are like four slots with bad interactions with Flubber at this point and they can't all be scum.

pedit: sitting at L-2 when and where? i'm not sure what you mean.

Prior to Flubber IC claim, Tris was the last vote and that was almost 4 hours before and put him at L-2. If Skitter can’t tell I’m obvtown yet, then I’m definitely not trusting her Elbirn read. And Tris’ most recent postings, how can Skitter still think she’s scum here?

i'm not reading you this game
i'm not planning on forming a read on you
i'm doing my best to ignore that your posts exist but i'm apparently i'm bad at doing this
i'm not sure what part of this you're not understanding

i'm like literally doing my best to just skip over your posts and pretend they're not there. they're long quotes of other people's posts and you do this for multiple pages and freak out whenever someone scumreads you and i'ts a pain to read all of this and it's contributing to the bloat and burning me out *a lot* so i'm just pretending they're not happening

i don't know how else to impart this to you

*i don't want to read your posts or interact with you or form a read on you*

[skitter30]

(@reck if you're on the wrong wagon for a third day in a row .... that would be like stretching credulity at that point, no matter how bad you say your play is rn)

this is wild

considering that ank/tris/me/chara were on both wrong wagons why are you only applying this "3 strikes you're out" scrutiny to me?

cuz ank was obvotwn and wanted the flubber wagon to happen
i didn't remember that tris and chara were on both of the wrong wagons? (tris i'm pretty sure was on flubber actually? wasn't she the l-1 vote that prompted the ic claim ...?)

and yeah chara is in this group i'm skeptical of because they weren't interested in flubber, i said this already
but of all these people your townread on flubber was the worst so

[skitter30]

and you're also rn voting someone i think is town; tha'ts what prompted that post @reck

[skitter30]

Votecount 2.Final

Xtoxm(7)

~ Chara(66), Nimueh(172), Flubbernugget(43), tris(16), NotMySpamAccount(25), Creature(47), Ankamius(219)

tris(3)

~ xRECKONERx(25), Elbirn(32), skitter30(110)

Ankamius(1)

~ Xtoxm(29)

NotMySpamAccount(1)

~ Succinct(15)


Not Voting (0):

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Xtoxm has been lynched.

Mod Notes:

skitter30 is V/LA on weekends.
Nimueh is V/LA while sick.

huh
i do not remember this happening

[skitter30]

you're making this game more than a little bit unenjoyable for me

[skitter30]

ok time to leave the thread now i guess

[skitter30]

ok skitter actually tho

i wasn't on the xtoxm wagon

ok fair but you weren't willing to vote flubber so like
idk i'm not voting you now anyways

i think this was a reaction to your elbirn vote cuz i really really really don't think he's scum and i'm getting like pre-emptively annoyed that another lynch i don't want seems to be building

and there was something else that struck me as townie from you ~5 minutes ago but i got a bit distracted and lost the thought so hopefully it'll come back to me but atm it's gone

[skitter30]

both

of our lynchwagons were hammered by townies that got angry they were being scumread for being scummy. i hate selfhammerers. i avoid playing with them on purpose. this is a game. don't be irl angry and then play against your wincon because someone is reading you wrong. grow up.
this is a game but it isn't a casual one. have some integrity.

i'm sick of personal drama too. skitter if you can't play with Nim to the point of pretending her posts don't exist you should not have stayed in this game. Nim this is your fault too, i literally don't care what you have to say about it.

yeah i really don't think i should have, sorry
i was trying ot find the least disruptive option and i didn't want to make someone else rep into a 100 page game or whatever it was at that point. i kinda felt like it was my mess of a game and i didn't want to make someone else deal with it instead of me

i could rep-out now but again i think that'll just be more disruptive? idk

[skitter30]

oh she knew. she definitely knew

[skitter30]

if Nimueh is scum you can yell at me later. just assume she's town.

i mean i can't just assume she's town because i don't think that
but i've been purposefully trying to pretend she's null and that i don't have to sort her
(ie i keep telling myself that there's only one spare mislynch and that we're not spending it on her no matter her alignment)
i'm not trying to push her or lynch her

[skitter30]

i think i'm just going to pretend this game didn't happen when it's over too

[skitter30]

Elbirn's still town

[skitter30]

i mean i've already explained at least twice, but sure

[skitter30]

his reaction to how ank was pushing him to vote one of {xtoxm/flubber} doesn't come from scum

[skitter30]

i don't think it did really tbh
the frustration felt real
it felt like he was trying to figure out what on earth ank was going on about and *just didn't get it* - like he was trying to understand what she wanted but couldn't track her thought process at all.

the lack of voting imo stemmed from there, and not from trying to protect flubber

[skitter30]

i'm not actually sure succinct is scum tbh, but i'm also not sure i care rn tbh

she's def in my poe tho
and most of the other people i'd want to vote are off the table for a variety of reasons so all in all i'm fine with this happening today

[skitter30]

also if succinct is town i kinda feel like there wouldn't be resistant to it given how hard tohru is pushing it - they could have just rode town!tohru's push to get one of those two critical mislynches

[skitter30]

yeah but i think elbirn is town tho and every time someone votes him i'm piping in to say that he's town so like i'm a significant part of the resistance and i know i'm town

i also don't think there isn't as concerted an effort to get him lynched in comparision to how tohru is literally reaching out to every player to get them to vote succinct

[skitter30]

there's an accidental double negative there, i meant:
i also don't think there's as concerted an effort ...

[skitter30]

i've not been reading a lot of the past few pages so i gotta go find it, give me a min

[skitter30]

Nim (can't scumread this)/Reck (irl, i don't care)/tris (meh)/skitter (absolute) /Creature (meta)/Tohru (obviously) town


Elbirn/Succinct/NMSA left

there

reck creature and tris
i'm not sure i explicitly scumread any of them but i don't townread any of them strongly enough either to build a poe around calling them town

+ nim
+ agree with succinct and nmsa
elbirn's town tho

like i don't feel confident that this game is on lock really

[skitter30]

i probably feel like if scum's in that group it's in the following order i think:
tris > creature > reck

(reck's irl thing resonated with me too tbh)

[skitter30]

again, so the fact that nobody has a strong townread on succinct except for maybe like nimueh makes it extremely puzzling why this wagon has been stalling at 4 votes for like half a week when someone is literally going around soliciting votes for it

[skitter30]

skipping past the multiple pages of nimueh posts that i'm not reading, fi there's something important in there lmk

[skitter30]

So, I'm coming back here. VOTE: Elbirn

If this is wrong, and Succinct is scum, Reck is the only partner that makes sense to me. If this is wrong, and Succinct is not scum, then I think Chara could be scum? I'll consider that more if I need to tomorrow. Hopefully there will be no tomorrow.

I just think Elbirn is the scummier of the two. Where is Succinct though?

elbirn's still town, can we please please please not do this

[skitter30]

Succinct: who do you think Tohru is?

I thought RC.

Oh cool I'm the counterwagon

Nice try to rewrite history, but

I

am the counterwagon to

you

, not vice-versa:

Votecount 3.1

NotMySpamAccount (2):

Succinct 3373, Chara 3489

Nimueh (2):

Elbirn 3669, NotMySpamAccount 3834

Elbirn (2):

Nimueh 3755, tris 3789

Succinct (1):

Tohru 3872

screw it, this game is toxic, I don't even care anymore, VOTE: succinct to get out of this game

This is literally a scumclaim.

Who gets out of the game on a town lynch?

i'd bet the game on tohru *not* being rc
the second bit is semantics and not actually meaningful
and yeah i noticed that for nmsa but it made me think that he was partnered with you and that he just didn't give a fuck and was voting you anyways to make the game end

[skitter30]

Because frustration can come from scum and be no less real.

cuz i felt like it was frustration stemming from the fact that he couldn't understand ank's solve but wanted to but just for the life of him couldn't get it to make sense

What resistance.
I went from 0 votes to L-2 literally overnight.
L-1 at some points!

The only true resistance has been Nimueh. Even Reck, second-most-resistant, expressed willingness to hammer me.

You say there's resistance, but evidence suggests the opposite; there's an utter lack of it, which should be a red flag.

the fact that you haven't been at l-1 for longer than like twelve seconds and people keep backing off for no discernable reason; nobody is willing to hammer you for mysterious reasons even though you're in like everyone's poe; the wagon keeps detoriarating after getting a lot of votes; there's cw's popping up (elbirn, now nmsa too)

[skitter30]

oh yeah also @succinct the elbirn wagon is being pushed by all the *other* people in my poe so like

[skitter30]

again, so the fact that nobody has a strong townread on succinct except for maybe like nimueh makes it extremely puzzling why this wagon has been stalling at 4 votes for like half a week when someone is literally going around soliciting votes for it

i mean i literally made a whole post a while back about why i was taking succinct off the table after i did an iso dive

right, i was going ot include you as one of the handful of people townreading her but i forgot to actually like write that

i remembered that you were townreading them but i don't remember this post and i don't remember why, can you just quote it for me? or tell me the post number?

[skitter30]

either way two people townreading her (you and like nimueh) in a game with 11 players shouldn't lead to a wagon stalling at l-2/l-1 repeatedly if she's town in this setup

[skitter30]

yeah idk
you were def townreading the slot earlier, you're right tho; i should have included you in the people townreading her; i've also seen that you aren't currently

[skitter30]

also going to point out that if she gets to l-1 and someeone posts without hammering and succinct is town that person is effectively not scum because then they could just hammer and escape overnight i think

if succinct is scum then i think that person who doesn't hammer has fairly high scum equity

i think i'm thinking about this right?

[skitter30]

i mean it's possible said person ont hammering didn't hammer town!succinct because they were the designated deep wolf who def wasn't gonig to escape tonight anyways so it isn't like *as foolproof* as lylo but like it's a pretty strong reason to townread someone

i suppose we could like pseudo hammer-test people?
not sure this is a good idea, just kinda spitballing and thinking aloud

[skitter30]

i mean it's possible said person ont hammering didn't hammer town!succinct because they were the designated deep wolf who def wasn't gonig to escape tonight anyways so it isn't like *as foolproof* as lylo but like it's a pretty strong reason to townread someone

i suppose we could like pseudo hammer-test people?
not sure this is a good idea, just kinda spitballing and thinking aloud

This doesnt work with scum-succinct and if hes town then as soon as he's put at L-1 optimal play would be for the designated escapee to just drop the hammer and bounce out tha game

It's a no from me.

fair enough i was kinda thinking aloud

[skitter30]

Why do i again feel like it'll be impossible to get 6 votes on succinct for no discernable reason?

@chara @tris why exactly are neither of u voting succinct rn?

[skitter30]

i was scumreading Reck until he posted about rl. no longer willing to lynch him.

Spoiler: alt stuff

using alts to get around any kind of ban is definitely not allowed. i wouldn't say the game mod needs to know anything unless a ban is involved/you're on that mod's blacklist. i also don't agree anyone should have to reveal their alts.
though, if i knew a player had blacklisted me, and i was on an alt, and they replaced in/joined a game, i would probably let them know privately to see if they wanted to stay out of the game after all. and part of that is because i don't really want to be in a game with someone who hates playing with me, is all. i think i would be much less likely to agree to /out of a game i was in for the sake of someone else, because that's on that person, not me.

Elbirn because he's not in my pool of players i'm convinced are town (and i have reasons i'm very convinced or for all of them), and also because what i townread was something i still think is towny (the way his emotions came out in his reads) but that i don't think is unfakeable as scum.

i think his partner is one of the other players i'm also not locktownreading, but i don't know who, yet.

Succint's recent posting sort of convinced me they may be town.

but within the PoE it's mostly just 'feelings'. i'm only okay going with it because i'm so confident in who i have as town.

@chara: why?
especially since within the poe still and it's mostly 'feelings'

pedit: i'm confident in all of my townreads besides tris, i think. so Elbirn/tris/Succinct/NMSA are the only players i would consider lynching.

i guess what i'm actually asking is why do you think elbirn is less townie than succint rn

[skitter30]

tris what exactly is your read on succinct?

[skitter30]

So my point is, that both wagons were at L-2, Succinct’s even got to L-1, albeit briefly, so my point is, why didn’t scum hammer either?

you realize you're arguing that succinct is scum, right?

[skitter30]

Why do i again feel like it'll be impossible to get 6 votes on succinct for no discernable reason?

@chara @tris why exactly are neither of u voting succinct rn?

idk, the resistance to it feels kinda weird. also happy scumday!

tyty
yes, the wagon being stalled at l-2 for no discernable reason (there just aren't votes for a succinct lynch rn) in this setup is extremely sketchy

remember how we just did this with flubber? it's the exact same thing

[skitter30]

to clarify, it was something that drifted through my mind so i mentioned it
i'm not, and haven't been, actually accusing you of throwing

[skitter30]

i feel like i'm banging my head against a wall trying to get people to vote succinct and i don't get why people aren't willing to do so given, again, that nobody's really articulating a strong townread on her

pedit i haven't read that yet really but auifhaowfja why are there more cw's

[skitter30]

I think Succinct is being limited by their self imposed posting style. So, I think some of the reasons for them being scum are faulty. But, I could still see them as being scum. Idk. The main reason I'm not voting for Succinct is that I can only see Reck as being their partner, and I have a really hard time seeing that. And, if we lynch here and it's wrong, there's more options to sort through, whereas if whatever counterwagon is a mislynch and Reck or Succinct escape, then we can lynch the other.

a) the gamestate says succinct is scum, it really has nothing to do with her posting style

b) the partner doesn't matter, we really only need to find one scum
(and honestly anyone on the cw is a possible partner here; only people i'm ruling out are the people sitting on the succinct wagon)

c) if you want to sort in the counterwagons why are you voting nmsa and starting a new one afioajdiaiofa

[skitter30]

finally, thank you

[skitter30]

yay tris isn't scum with succinct

[skitter30]

tris is town.

^^^^^^

[skitter30]

I'm ruling out Nimueh and Creature, and Chara can't be because of being on the wagon before.

What about about the gamestate indicates Succinct scum?

the fact that people have been pushing this for a week and it's *not happenign*

if succinct is town scum would have just allowed multiple townies talk them into the hammer happening already

the fact that getting votes there is like pulling teeth indicates that scum aren't willing to join it, which points to succinct-scum

[skitter30]

WHy am I suddenly town?

if you were scum and succinct was town you would have hammered and died overnight

if you're scum it's exactly with succinct

[skitter30]

i mean that would mean scum is me (i'm town!) or tohru (town!) or elbirn (town!) or nmsa (idk)

and that the other 6 people are townies who for no explicable reason aren't willing to vote there

there's nobody professing a strong townread on her
there's no reason for 6 townies who aren't townreading succinct to have *none* of them voting her

[skitter30]

WHy am I suddenly town?

if you were scum and succinct was town you would have hammered and died overnight

if you're scum it's exactly with succinct

You confused me because you said I wasn't scum

with

Succinct. Did you mean the opposite?

if you're scum it's exactly with succinct because otherwise you would have hammered and escaped tonight

i'm not sure what i meant before but this is accurate ^^^

[skitter30]

sweet

[skitter30]

fair enough but tris wasn't the intended escapee here
and you *prob?* werne't either? idk it depends on who you'd be partnered with

[skitter30]

i mean succinct partners are now basically limited to nimueh and chara i think, right?

[skitter30]

wait nm creature and tris are viable succinct partners too for not hammering

if succinct is town they're not scum almost for sure
if succinct is scum they could be scum with her

[skitter30]

i think we can take reck out, casting the l-1 vote here (and not unvoting!) would be dumb as a partner

[skitter30]

they were the l-2 vote for a bit but jumped off and i don't know why they're not willing to vote again; they're a viable partner

[skitter30]

shoud i take it off of l-1 now for us to figure it out and prevent a lolhammer if she's actually town?
i don't think she is tho

[skitter30]

why you taking out nimueh?

[skitter30]

yeah fair
not on the same level as you and tris tho; she hasn't posted in this time span

[skitter30]

i don't remember the exact circumstances; i'll have to go back and check

[skitter30]

yeah but either way it means i don't have to worry about them rn - if succinct is scum the game is over (and it doesn't matter who the partner is) and if succinct is town then they prob aren't scum

you too

[skitter30]

fair enough, but i'm not sure you'd point that out if you were scum

tris is pretty transparently not scum tho with that reaction

[skitter30]

i'm not sure if we should be waiting for nimueh to post here (i think that's everything offwagon besides succinct themselves?)

i feel like not-hammering is less significant the later the person enters the thread almost

tris is like obvtown, creature's pretty townie; it didn't impact my read on you super much

[skitter30]

and that is that

[skitter30]

now i feel like we're in twilight and i'm wondering if we got this right finally

[skitter30]

and now is when i second-guess everything and wonder if i'm actually right

if succinct is actually town scum is more likely than not in the 5 people voting before tris/creature/chara/nimueh didn't hammer i think if i'm reading this right

[skitter30]

yeah i'm *really* hoping this is just it

[skitter30]

i mean i've been trying for like a week but yeah
thanks nsg!

[skitter30]

Votecount 2.5

Flubbernugget(5)

~ Creature(47), Succinct(15), NotMySpamAccount(25), skitter30(110), tris(16)

Xtoxm(2)

~ Chara(66), Nimueh(172)

tris(2)

~ xRECKONERx(25), Elbirn(32)

Chara(1)

~ Flubbernugget(43)

Ankamius(1)

~ Xtoxm(29)


Not Voting (1): Ankamius(219)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 23:56:59).

Mod Notes:

skitter30 is V/LA on weekends.
Nimueh is V/LA while sick.

.... they were both on wagon here
and we still couldn't lynch him

[skitter30]

^^^^

[skitter30]

you were tohru?
huh

[skitter30]

like this was very much his scumgame
i didnt push him at all because he's been sandbagging his town to to look the same as his scumgame
so may strategy with him is to wait and see if he towns up later
i did push back on the actual trs on him and im glad i did
my other reads pretty much all sucked LOL

Yeah, i also didnt really think he was out of his scumrange at any point

[skitter30]

that quote about me is literally from a sentence where i said that i'm good at looking townie as scum so that's also a bad reason to townread me
i also have no idea how well you know my playstyle but like if you don't know me trusting my word on that also seems like a bad idea

I have experience with you.

You're good at obvtowning as town.
You're good at "obvtowning" as scum, but this isn't that; it's the former, not latter.

yeah i'm *pretty* sure i know who you are
so i guess the thread is iminently going to get locked probably so i'd like to pick this up tomorrow and/or daystart or whatever

I also should have picked up on this

[skitter30]

(Not necesaarily who the main was, but the fact thaf she handed a townread to me too easily again imo)

[skitter30]

I think extradition-esque setups are ridiculously townsided, no matter what the calculated ev is. I'm undecided whether i feel like this setup is harder pr easier than jingle's.

[skitter30]

It was fun playing with you skitter, while I was here, while things went down. You were pretty intimidating because you obvtown pretty hard.

Thanks
I enjoyed playing with you too!