Mafiascum.net

In post 385, Enter wrote:After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done.

You didn't make a push to get anyone to vote nmsa. All day yesterday you were shading the wagon, my push on the wagon, and the ability of the wagon to go through.

The last post where you even sound like you're scum reading nmsa is from sunday, and only came as result of my directly asking you for it. everything else is just posturing

In post 397, u r a person 2 wrote:

In post 329, u r a person 2 wrote:

In post 312, Enter wrote:I highly doubt you will actually be lynched at this point. Very rarely have I seen a highly active game (which I very much intend for this to be) result in the Lynch of a player who got bandwagons coming out of RVS

I don't understand. You think he's scum, but you don't think he will be the lynch.

Do you want today's lynch to be NMSA?

In post 330, Enter wrote:Yes. I do.

In post 334, Enter wrote:I want NMSA to be lynched today, I don't think he will be lynched right now. Based on experience the wagon on him will dismantle before reforming again if he will be lynched, though. Very very rarely do I see a wagon coming out of RVS resulting in a Lynch.

In post 385, Enter wrote:Ugh. Sorry for yesterday, I was really out of my element. Let's fix this, starting here:

1. I love wagons. I love wagons made for good reason, I love wagons made for bad reason, I love wagons made for seemingly no reason whatsoever. I like to see who's willing to get on and push, who's resistant, and why. So of course I'm going to push to see who's willing to get on and who's not, offering whatever reason I can to be on it. After my push to see if we could get one more vote on NMSA yesterday I didn't get much positive response, just a bit of resistance, so for that reason, I think my time here is done. I'm going to save these:

Wow, didn't see this transition coming. /s

If/when nmsa flips scum, you're a partner. This is simply transparent.

And when I flip town, what is he?

I pushed a lot of people to vote NMSA. Ignoring facts doesn't make them go away. Vote me if you wanna call me scum and quit making up reasons.

In post 403, Enter wrote:I pushed a lot of people to vote NMSA. Ignoring facts doesn't make them go away. Vote me if you wanna call me scum and quit making up reasons.

could you quote these instances?

The NMSA wagon began to slow down. In an attempt to keep it going and see who was willing to jump on and who wasn't, I challenged nimuehs reasoning on not voting him and then followed up by providing a somewhat decent reason for people to keep voting him.

In post 286, Enter wrote:

In post 285, Nimueh wrote:Hi everyone. Just based on skimming the thread, NMSA’s posts are pinging me the most. Not voting yet, because I’m concerned about the speed of that wagon.

This is just WIFOM.

Also, can someone please explain the votes on Brigitte, Skitter? Thanks.

Everyone else is waiting on explanations on those as well.

In post 287, Enter wrote:Not JUST WIFOM, I mean, but it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one.

In addition to these, I posed multiple times the other day that the wagon on NMSA would fall apart - in my experience this often causes players to jump on just cuz people like to spite me for some reason (or maybe they want to prove there's more support than I expected for the wagon)(these I actually posted for more than just this purpose, however, so I'm not going to quote them here, also because mobile)

How is saying that "it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one" anything but throwing shade on the wagon and people voting there?

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

In post 406, u r a person 2 wrote:How is saying that "it wouldn't surprise me if we've got some hard bussers that don't trust a buddy in this one" anything but throwing shade on the wagon and people voting there?

I don't know. I'm not entirely certain why proposing that the reason a wagon is growing so quickly on scum would be because scum is bussing. It's strange and ridiculous to me to suggest that people scared of jumping on a wagon due to speed of its growth would be comforted by the idea that the wagon is growing because scum is bussing.

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.

That was probably snarkier than it needed to be.

I don't care about the snarkiness

And I'm not saying it's bad to question whether or not a wagon is a bus

But you can't sit here and seriously say that making that insinuation in pushing people to vote there. If being on the wagon is already being shaded, how is that an incentive for people of either alignment to vote there? It's certainly not an incentive for scum to vote there - town cred is the only reason to bus. It's the point of bussing.

In post 407, Enter wrote:

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.

You're saying that in your experience, saying a wagon fall apart makes people vote there. I'm asking you to back this up, because I think you're making it up.

If I'm scum reading people already on the wagon, that means I'm less likely to be screaming the other people in the game. I also proposed that both scum were already on the bus in my comment about you and tictac. It's like I had already thought of that and was prepared for it.

In post 410, u r a person 2 wrote:

In post 407, Enter wrote:

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.

You're saying that in your experience, saying a wagon fall apart makes people vote there. I'm asking you to back this up, because I think you're making it up.

I'd like to, but I've played mafia since 2012 on multiple sites, on this one since 2014, and I'm not going to look through all my games to try and find every time I've said or done something and people have done the opposite to spite me. I'm personally surprised you haven't encountered the same.

In post 410, u r a person 2 wrote:

In post 407, Enter wrote:

What experiences are you referring to in the last paragraph?

I'm not sure what you're asking for here.

You're saying that in your experience, saying a wagon fall apart makes people vote there. I'm asking you to back this up, because I think you're making it up.

You're telling me that you've never played a mafia game where you've said "we're not lynching this" and someone puts a vote on them and says "bet." Or something similar

In post 413, Enter wrote:You're telling me that you've never played a mafia game where you've said "we're not lynching this" and someone puts a vote on them and says "bet." Or something similar

I think the closest I've come to is me + NMSA in this game. I don't think I've ever credited the person saying "we're not lynching this" with pushing the wagon.

For the sake of argument, let's say you're right.

You're presenting your entire time on the NMSA wagon as a big reaction test to see who would join the wagon. Were your comments designed to get town to vote or scum to vote?

People to vote. I don't care who votes and who doesn't. I like wagons, I like seeing why people will get on wagons and why people won't get on wagons. And it wasn't all just a giant reaction test. I didn't like NASA's play, the Brig vote specifically pinged me. I might have exaggerated how much I believed in the wagon a bit, but don't put words in my mouth.

My point is I'd rather have a lot of people voting a lot of different ways or specifically refusing to vote a lot of different ways than a bunch of people dropping reads saying "we could vote this or we could vote that"

Hey, apologies. That's how your big post read to me. Not all a reaction test, got it.

So, then, what is your actual, honest-to-god read on NMSA right now?

Like what you're doing right now gets on my nerves. I understand why you won't do it right now (you think NMSA is scum), but I'd much rather you voted me and pushed me instead of just pushing with words. Votes are just so much easier to follow and when you get to lylo, finding where people pushed with words what and how can be more difficult if there's no vote with it.

My most confident scum read is nmsa. There is no reason for me to unvote. It's counter to my win-con to unvote. You're not going to goad me into unvoting.

In post 417, u r a person 2 wrote:Hey, apologies. That's how your big post read to me. Not all a reaction test, got it.

So, then, what is your actual, honest-to-god read on NMSA right now?

He looks pretty scummy, to be honest. I'm still developing reads on other people but he feels like a solid Lynch today. I like that he tried with his reads list, but I only kinda skimmed it, and it looked like he had a few nulls on there. Replacing out attempts, self votes, and the like don't always indicate scum but they can be telling and I have an aversion towards all of them. Pushing Brig (who isn't here and was pretty strong town pushing him when she was) just feels like OMGUS and an excuse not to really talk about anything else. He's pretty scummy to me ATM.

In post 419, u r a person 2 wrote:My most confident scum read is nmsa. There is no reason for me to unvote. It's counter to my win-con to unvote. You're not going to goad me into unvoting.

That's fine. We disagree on counter to your wincon thing, it wouldn't be hard to put your vote back on him, but I don't care as far as you're concerned as much because I understand where you're coming from. A problem I've run into before is pushing only one player day one as scum, getting the player lynched and then not know who to push because all day all I focused on and all that happened was the push on that player. I'm working hard to make sure that doesn't happen, but just ... whatever. You seem like you're aware enough of what's going on. It will be more beneficial to talk about this post game when I can prove my alignment.

I'd like to take you up on that conversation after the game, if you're serious =)

Definitely. I like conversations like this.

Gonna come back to this exchange later with a clear head, but I could see this being a play style clash I guess