Open 753: Nomination Mafia [Game Over!]

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:53 am

I'm so disappointed in you, SR.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:54 am

We have to lynch Vedith today.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:54 am

Vedith back to his scum meta of fucking around instead of helping solve the game...

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:56 am

No, I don't think you'd be dodging all my questions about reads as town Vedith. It makes all your reads seem faked.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:56 am

I still think it's the DT/Chen/Vedith team. It's the least complicated solve. And they gave us a nice gift by nominating themselves to help us test it during even phase.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:58 am

In post 2499, scum reading wrote:
In post 2486, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2483, scum reading wrote:??? Does my post baffle you or what? I don't get it
You're saying Vedith is town when he hasn't flipped yet???
My whole point of view is that you are scum that said "Lynch vedith and if he flips town, lynch sr next". If I believe you are scum, you are the informed minority, so, as an informed minority scum, you say lynch vedith, he will flip town and then you'll follow my lynch through.

This whole case comes from my paranoia because you gave up your strongest town read, which was a lazy tr by the way, since it's true, I've been a lurker this game, and it looks like you took me with you up to this point and then you just throw me like bait. I'm the easiest bait because of my lack of content. I just don't get why you'd say that, I've townread you up until you post that shit, we had the same scum reads and all, why do you post something like that if not as an attempt to try and survive when being pushed?

You're saying I'm informed because I'm using conditional reasoning? You're the one revealing an informed perspective here.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:59 am

You also didn't townread me yesterday, SR. I had to town case myself to get that townread.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 am

I need to get a read on SR. He just destroyed all shred of towniness he built in the game with that informed read on Vedith's flip.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:00 am

I'd like to hear from Chen before lynching.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:01 am

Please clarify all your reads in the game, SR.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:02 am

There's no shady posts. What are you talking about?

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:02 am

Conditional reasoning isn't shady. WTF.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:02 am

Why do you have a death wish, SR?

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 am

I can't tell anymore if it's bad town or bad scum.

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:30 am

Please reply to this, SR:

Spoiler:

In post 2427, scum reading wrote: Just like she did. We were given a roadmap to victory from irrelephant. The main reason I was tring shoshin was because she promised she'd stick with it, but when we have the opportunity to lynch chennis, she starts accusing you and after hardcore defending me, she doubts her reads so you town read her.

So it just makes me believe both her and chennis are most likely scum.

You were townreading me because I promised to stick with Irrelephant's road map to victory? Please reference the posts where Irrelephant provides such a map, the posts where I promise to stick with it after Irrelephant's death, and the posts where you townread me as a result.

In post 2444, scum reading wrote:
In post 2439, Shoshin wrote:Fuck it, I'm done with this game.

I'll stick around to sheep Auro since he's the only person making sense.
You have just changed one of your strongest town reads to a scum read like it's nothing. Do you believe you're making sense?

Of course I get paranoid of your alignment if you are willing to throw me as bait like that. It seemed like you just wanted to do anything to survive.

What townread did I change to a scumread like it was nothing? I'm here saying to lynch Vedith, the guy who keeps scumreading you. What do you think that means about my read on you?

You're the one who went from townreading me to suddenly scumreading me based on actually nothing. Why are you projecting your own behaviors onto me? Why are you assuming that Vedith will flip town when reading my alignment? And don't say you're not assuming Vedith is town, because the only way it makes sense for you to scumread me is if you say that I'm setting up a chain mislynch, which assumes that Vedith is town, something I never did.

In post 2460, scum reading wrote:Vedith, you're just swinging at everything you can to get me lynched. Other than me coasting shoshin (which has been refuted with my vote) you have nothing on me.

Get to lynching real scummies, because you're plain wrong about my alignment.

Why are you trying to refute Vedith's case on you by scumreadnig me? Based on this, do you think it's reasonable for me to conclude that the reason you scumread me is for survival?

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:33 am

In post 2515, scum reading wrote:This is where I'm at for now, reads will most likely change post-flip.

Why are you scumreading me for saying my reads might change post-flip?

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:42 am

In post 2515, scum reading wrote:This is where I'm at for now, reads will most likely change post-flip.

The phrase "reads will most likely change post-flip" implies an informed perspective about the flip. Do you realize that?

Shoshin · Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:48 pm

Are you questioning whether I'm town, Volx?

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:21 am

This game is lost.

I'm done trying.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:22 am

VOTE: chennisden

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:28 am

In post 2469, Shoshin wrote:I guess I'll get into the logic of how this game breaks down:

1. If I were scum, I would never nominate myself with Vedith/Chen unless all of DT/Chen/Vedith were town. This is because scum me aligned with one or two of DT/Chen/Vedith easily wins the game by nominating three townies outside of DT/Chen/Vedith. We mislynch during nomination, and then we mislynch the townie in DT/Chen/Vedith. I follow this strategy as scum because it safely wins me the game by following my poe to its logical conclusion. Thus, to believe that I'm scum, you have to believe that all of DT/Chen/Vedith are town.

2. If SR is scum with one or two of DT/Chen/Vedith, he never nominates anyone in the group of DT/Chen/Vedith. This is because scum SR easily wins by nominating three townies outside of himself or DT/Chen/Vedith. He mislynches during nomination, and then he mislynches the townie in DT/Chen/Vedith. Scum SR follows this strategy because it simply follows my poe to its logical conclusion.

3. If the scum includes two of DT/Chen/Vedith, they almost always nominate three townies outside of DT/Chen/Vedith. Again, this allows scum to follow my poe to its logical conclusion, winning them the game. Thus, the unique situation we find ourselves is unlikely to arise in a situation where two of DT/Chen/Vedith are scum.

4. If the mafia is precisely DT/Chen/Vedith, they lose if they nominate three townies outside of themselves. Thus, their optimal strategy is to shake things up. How do you shake things up? You nominate yourselves in some sort of combination. This reading is consistent with the current nominations.

5. Everything else is WIFOM. If you say scum are trying to outplay by acting differently than the above, you're saying that scum chose the harder path to victory for no reason other than style points. It's absurd to suggest that scum do things solely because of WIFOM. Scum do things to win the game, period. WIFOM is occasionally useful in that pursuit, but at the end of the day, scum are most likely to do what wins them the game. So don't give me a bunch of WIFOM excuses to argue my analysis is incorrect. I'm talking about what's by far the most probable outcomes.

I'm ignoring anyone who has concerns about me unless they explain first why they think all of DT/Chen/Vedith are town.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:32 am

Take a look at how you responded to me when I asked about SR. Then imagine I'm answering exactly the same.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:54 am

Can you just hammer Chenn already so we can move on from this game?

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:34 am

In post 2556, Shoshin wrote:I'm ignoring anyone who has concerns about me unless they explain first why they think all of DT/Chen/Vedith are town.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:54 am

I'm also ignoring anyone who talks about possibilities instead of probabilities.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:58 am

UNVOTE:

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:52 pm

Okay, Volx. I guess I have to treat you like a baby & spell everything out ad nauseam.

First line of questioning:

1. Is it possible that I'm scum from your perspective? Yes.

2. Is it possible that Auro's scum from your perspective? Yes.

3. Is it possible that Alonzo's scum from your perspective? Yes.

4. Is it possible that SR's scum from your perspective? Yes.

5. Is it possible that Vedith's scum from your perspective? Yes.

6. Is it possible that DT's scum from your perspective? Yes.

7. Is it possible that Chenn's scum from your perspective? Yes.

8. Is it possible that any scumteam composed of the above players is scum from your perspective? Yes.

9. Does answering any of the above get you closer to finding scum? No.

THEREFORE, STOP TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S POSSIBLE.

Second line of questioning:

1. Is it likely for scum me to choose the easiest path to victory? Yes.

2. Is it likely for scum me to choose the simplest path to victory? Yes.

3. Is it likely for scum me to choose the least risky path to victory? Yes.

4. Is it likely for scum me to make my path to victory harder for style points? No.

5. Is it likely for scum me to take unnecessary risks for style points? No.

6. Is it likely for scum me to create WIFOM for style points? No.

THEREFORE, DO NOT TALK TO ME ABOUT ANY SCENARIO IN WHICH I'M SCUM THAT ISN'T THE EASIEST, SIMPLEST, LEAST RISKY PATH TO VICTORY.

Third line of questioning:

1. Is mislynching today & tomorrow the quickest way for scum me to win? Yes.

2. Is mislynching today & tomorrow the easiest way for scum me to win? Yes.

3. Is mislynching today & tomorrow the simplest way for scum me to win? Yes.

4. Is mislynching today & tomorrow the least risky way for scum me to win? Yes.

5. Based on the above, if it's possible for scum me to mislynch today & tomorrow, is it likely for scum me to pursue an alternative strategy? No.

THEREFORE, SCUM ME ALWAYS ATTEMPTS TO MISLYNCH TODAY & TOMORROW.

Fourth line of questioning:

1.

2.

1. Is scum me self-nominating twice in a row in unpredictable situations likely to be the easiest, simplest, least risky path to victory? No.

2. Is scum me self-nominating against you & Irrelephant on D2 likely to be the easiest, simplest, least risky path to victory? No.

3. Is scum me lynching Irrelephant over you when Irrelephant reads me town likely to be the easiest, simplest, least risky path to victory? No.

4. Is scum me

3. Did scum me have opportunities to lynch you over Irrelephant on D2 without facing any risk? Yes.

3. If scum me could guarantee a mislynch today & tomorrow, is it likely for scum me to choose this path over another path to victory? Yes.

4.

9. Is it likely for scum me to nominate myself along with a partner when there is an easier, less risky path to victory? No.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:52 pm

Fuck I hate submit somehow by accident. I hate this game.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:53 pm

I will continue where I left off.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:03 pm

It comes down to this, Volx:

1. If any of DT/Chen/Vedith are scum with me, is it possible for scum me to nominate three townies who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith? Yes.

2. If scum me can nominate three townies today who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith, would this guarantee a mislynch today? Yes.

3. Does scum me face any risk in nominating three townies who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith? No.

4. If scum me gets a mislynch today, can scum me push an easy mislynch on the townie within DT/Chen/Vedith tomorrow? Yes.

5. If scum me pushes a mislynch on the townie within DT/Chen/Vedith tomorrow, will scum me face any risk? No.

THEREFORE, IF SCUM ME IS PARTNERED WITH ANY OF DT/CHEN/VEDITH, SCUM ME NOMINATES THREE TOWNIES OUTSIDE OF DT/CHEN/VEDITH.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:07 pm

One last line of questioning to make sure your myopic self doesn't misunderstand what this means:

Based on the above, you know for a fact that I am not scum with any of DT/Chen/Vedith, because if I were, I would have nominated three townies outside of DT/Chen/Vedith.

Therefore, you must argue that DT/Chen/Vedith are all town to say that I'm scum. And any paranoia about me outside of that is just speculation based on POSSIBILITY rather than PROBABILITY.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:08 pm

I have one final thing to say.

YOUR INABILITY TO UNDERSTAND WHY I DO THE THINGS I DO DOES NOT MEAN THOSE THINGS ARE SCUMMY.

LACK OF UNDERSTANDING IS NOT REASON TO SUSPECT ME.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:45 pm

We are done talking, Volx. Do not sign up for my games again if you are town.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:06 pm

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, VOLX? I BROKE DOWN EVERY STEP IN THE LOGIC FOR YOU.

In post 2584, volxen wrote:But if the scumteam is Shoshin/Vedith/Scumreading or Shoshin/Chennisden/Scumreading

If the scumteam is me/Vedith/SR, we nominate Volx/Alonzo/Auro (i.e. three townies outside of DT/Chen/Vedith). We mislynch a nominee & then we mislynch one of DT/Chenn.

If the scumteam is me/Chenn/SR, we nominate Volx/Alonzo/Auro (i.e. three townies outside of DT/Chen/Vedith). We mislynch a nominee & then we mislynch one of DT/Chenn.

I DON'T BUS WHEN I HAVE SUCH AN EASY PATH TO VICTORY.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:07 pm

In post 2580, Shoshin wrote:It comes down to this, Volx:

1. If any of DT/Chen/Vedith are scum with me, is it possible for scum me to nominate three townies who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith? Yes.

2. If scum me can nominate three townies today who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith, would this guarantee a mislynch today? Yes.

3. Does scum me face any risk in nominating three townies who aren't DT/Chen/Vedith? No.

4. If scum me gets a mislynch today, can scum me push an easy mislynch on the townie within DT/Chen/Vedith tomorrow? Yes.

5. If scum me pushes a mislynch on the townie within DT/Chen/Vedith tomorrow, will scum me face any risk? No.

THEREFORE, IF SCUM ME IS PARTNERED WITH ANY OF DT/CHEN/VEDITH, SCUM ME NOMINATES THREE TOWNIES OUTSIDE OF DT/CHEN/VEDITH.

What question was answered wrong, Volx?

Every step in the logic is laid bare. Don't fucking write another wall at me without addressing the specific step in my logic that you take issue with.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm

In post 2586, volxen wrote:I don't see the point of the AtE.

It's not AtE. I don't want to have to deal with townies who struggle this much to follow basic logic when it's broken down the way I just did.

Shoshin · Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:22 pm

In post 2583, Alonzo wrote:VOTE: chennidsen

Why do you prefer Chenn over Vedith?

Shoshin · Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:53 am

VOTE: Chennisden

Let's just get on with this.

Shoshin · Sun Mar 24, 2019 11:15 am

Why is Vedith town?

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:54 am

VOTE: Vedith

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:54 am

Auro & SR, please vote Vedith so we can end this day already.

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:52 am

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:59 am

VOTE: scum reading

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:01 am

In post 2660, Auro wrote:Way past my bedtime. I'll be back in the morning. I think Chen is the correct lynch, and if not, SR. Vedith's reads were off.

And how do you know Vedith's reads were off?

Shoshin · Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:11 am

SR is scum, Volx. There's no getting around that simple fact.

I voted them so at this point your lynch options are me or SR. If one of us is town, the game's over.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:49 am

There's three scum.

I'm town.

I voted SR.

If SR's town, the three scum hammer.

The game hasn't ended yet.

So SR is scum.

If you need further evidence, look at Vedith's meta read on SR & my catch on SR's slip yesterday with respect to Vedith's alignment.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:51 am

Volx, please place your vote on SR to prove that he's scum.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 am

From your perspective, I'm town who is voting scum SR or I'm scum who is bussing. Either way, vote SR please.

It needs to happen before Alonzo stupidly votes me & allows the scum to win.

We're on a clock.

I've lost multiple games because townies didn't vote the scum quickly enough at LYLO.

Please don't let that happen this game.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:45 am

I won't be responding to SR's attempts to mislynch me.

If anyone other than SR has concerns about me, please let me know what they are. This is the point in the game where I'll address all concerns in full.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:12 am

DT, if you have concerns about me, please talk to me about them in a respectful, direct, & clear manner, and please don't do so in an aggressive manner because I'm a sensitive person. If you're town & have an open mind, as is your trademark as town based on what I've seen in other games, then I'm willing to talk with you about the game.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:18 am

In post 2754, scum reading wrote:You do know my meta, maybe you can tell the people how I play. If you pushed against me that would've been nuts considering you know my playstyle.

Town Vedith pushed for lynching SR based on meta so this doesn't ring true.

DT, can you provide further insight on SR's meta?

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 am

In post 2760, DoubtingThomas wrote:Before I talk to you about my concerns, who do you think is the scum team with scum reading and why (if you can case them)?

I don't know who his partners are.

For most of this game I was working under the theory that scum was within Fusco/Vedith/Chenn/you. That theory was proven wrong yesterday so I'm currently sorting that out.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:44 am

In post 2761, DoubtingThomas wrote:and what do you think about auro's rather hasty vote on scum reading?

I'm glad Auro voted SR over me. I don't think the vote is too hasty.

There's a remote possibility that SR's town & scum haven't hammered but it's not something I feel worth contemplating at this point. I think the case against SR is overwhelming based on the flips so far.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:44 am

You have to vote to lynch scum, Chenn.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:46 am

In post 2769, chennisden wrote:BoP says that you wouldn't let us PoE so fast. This might be a bus.

I don't follow what this means. Can you clarify?

For some perspective, I've been in LYLO situations many times in the past & whenever I wait to vote I end up losing because town votes town before I have a chance to vote whereas when I've voted immediately it's always been on scum.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:57 am

Chenn, I'm the one who forced the 1v1, not SR.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:05 pm

I recommend not thinking about this game mechanically, Chenn.

From your perspective, it's very likely that one of me or SR is scum. It's still a probability, not a confirmed fact.

You don't need to declare intent at this point. If you think SR's scum, vote him.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:27 pm

I'll offer some simple reasons to vote SR over me for those who aren't sure:

1. I was nominated twice. SR wasn't ever nominated. While it's possible that scum self-nominate twice in a row, it's unlikely because it puts scum at great risk while providing little if any advantage. Thus, the nominations suggest SR as more likely scum than me.

2. I've been leading the game after RC replaced out, offering tons of analysis about who the scum are, who the town are, and who we should be lynching. SR's been sheeping me the entire game. Based on the general propensity of town to lead & of scum to sheep misguided town, SR's more likely scum than me.

3. SR's a better probability lynch based solely on the fact he's plausibly partnered with anyone while it's unlikely that I'm partnered with Chenn, Volx, or DT. It's unlikely I'm partnered with Chenn or Volx because it's unlikely that scum nominate two of their members at the same time. It's unlikely I'm partnered with DT because scum almost never interact the way we have.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:27 pm

In post 2785, chennisden wrote:
In post 2779, Shoshin wrote:I recommend not thinking about this game mechanically, Chenn.

From your perspective, it's very likely that one of me or SR is scum. It's still a probability, not a confirmed fact.

You don't need to declare intent at this point. If you think SR's scum, vote him.
By the way, realize that this interaction never happens between scum chennis and scum Shoshin.

We're not partners because we were nominated at the same time, period. The same logic applies to me & Volx as well.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:29 pm

How do you feel about DT, Chenn?

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:30 pm

In post 2783, chennisden wrote:this is exactly how scum played as town last time.

Please say more about this. What's exactly the same?

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:43 pm

Okay, Volx. I have to deal with your errant mind yet again. Okay.

For starters, when you start making assumptions about behaviors, please make the least # of assumptions possible & choose assumptions that are most likely to apply with the highest probability. Don't make assumptions about things based on lots of speculation & low probabilities. I agree with you that Alonzo's very likely to be town, that's fine. But you shouldn't assume that me & Auro wouldn't bus. We're as likely to bus as not bus in this type of situation & it's impossible for you to know with high probability what's happening from a town perspective either way.

There's better assumptions to be made about this game that will help you solve with higher probability & less speculation. Let's go over these:

1. It's very unlikely for scum to nominate themselves because the risk is unnecessary & far outweighs the potential reward.

2. It's very unlikely for scum to self-nominate a member twice in a row after she almost got lynched the first time, especially when taking that risk is unnecessary to win.

3. In a 1v1 at LYLO, if scum haven't hammered one of the players after everyone has had a chance to post, one of the players in the 1v1 is very likely to be scum.

These assumptions are significantly higher probability than your speculations about bussing. What happens when you apply these assumptions to the game? They point to SR as scum 100% of the time.

I'll apply the assumptions for you so that I don't leave anything to your errant mind:

1. There's at least one scum between myself & SR because of the 1v1 at LYLO.

2. I'm very likely to be town because I was nominated twice in a row.

3. Therefore, SR is scum.

That's the analysis you should apply today because it's the highest percentage lynch. It doesn't require any speculation about bussing. It doesn't even require assumptions about Alonzo's alignment even though we obviously agree on that.

That said, let's talk about why your analysis fails even when applying your bussing assumptions. You say that scum Auro aligned with SR pushes DT or Chenn today. This is untrue because I forced the issue by voting SR. Auro had no choice but to vote between myself & SR, and given the fact that he could hammer me in the event that a townie votes me, he faces no risk whatsoever by placing a vote on SR while waiting to see what happens. Auro isn't clear.

The reason this matters is because it means Auro/SR/Chenn is still plausible. It's plausible enough that rather than vote DT you need to be lynching the highest percentage chance of hitting scum & that's SR in all cases. Again, my analysis requires fewer assumptions with less speculation & higher probability than yours, so please just follow my reasoning instead of allowing your mind to wander itself into making cognitive errors.

There's another thing you're not considering, which is the fact that you're not cleared as town by anyone except yourself. As such, you're not going to convince anyone with your analysis because your analysis assumes you're town, something that none of us know with certainty except you.

For those reasons, you need to be looking at lynching SR today.

Shoshin · Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:54 pm

I'd also rather not talk too much about who SR's partners are because I don't want to give anything away when it comes to nominating for tomorrow.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:07 am

I'm thinking about replacing out as well after seeing that Auro did.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:08 am

It's either that or Volx stops making this game 10x harder than it needs to be.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:35 am

Chenn, why aren't you voting SR? What's holding you back?

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:39 am

In post 2827, chennisden wrote:
In post 2824, Shoshin wrote:Chenn, why aren't you voting SR? What's holding you back?
the volxen/DT 1v1, if forced, is something I am much more confident with.

Why?

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:40 am

SR says DT is scum, right? Let's force him to vote DT, then.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:48 am

I don't think I've violated any rule by saying I plan on replacing out if Volx continues making my experience miserable in THIS game.

If you want to modkill me & ruin the game for that, go ahead. I'd be happy I don't have to deal with this anymore.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:49 am

ate comes from town more often than scum.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:51 am

From SR's perspective, Xtox is lockscum.

It's curious that SR doesn't want to lynch Xtox & that SR doesn't want to lynch DT.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:54 am

Chenn, please promise me that if SR somehow gets in your head that you will talk to me about it before you vote.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:56 am

In post 2845, scum reading wrote:Chennis, you’re never listening to me and remember last time you tunneled me to death and I was town?

This is my favorite example of scummy ate that I've ever seen.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:57 am

There's no case on me because I'm town.

SR's attempts to case me will reflect his rhetorical skill, nothing more.

And luckily, I'm prepared to deal with that & point out how it's entirely rhetorical.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:15 am

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... roficiency

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:55 am

I agree with Chenn that SR shouldn't have a problem voting Xtox.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:58 am

I wonder what Irrel's thinking if he's watching this game.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:45 am

VOTE: DT

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:47 am

VOTE: scum reading

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:47 am

Fuck Volx.

I'm leaving my vote on SR.

If Volx wants to waste our time talking about DT today, I'm ignoring it.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:15 am

Volx, you need to question SR on why he won't vote for Xtox.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:16 am

Alonzo, I recommend you question SR on why he won't vote Xtox as well.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:59 am

In post 2878, scum reading wrote:Depending on the nominees tomorrow I'll be able to confirm my reads on DT and Auro.

It's very strange that SR isn't 100% scum on Auro/Xtox.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 10:16 am

If you think I'm scum, I'd like to know why so that I can address your concerns.

If you think I'm town, I'd like you to vote SR.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:03 am

Okay, DT. I'll try to address your concerns & explain why I'm town. In the process, I'd like you to respond to my questions as well.

1. You know for a fact that ignoring questions is NAI for me so that's not a valid concern. Why are you allowing this to impact your read when you know it's NAI? Can you point me to an example of a town game where you scum read someone for something you knew to be NAI?

2. You say I've been town casing myself too much.

On this point, I want to make sure you understand that I've only defended myself in situations where I've been close to getting lynched, specifically during nomination phases when I've been forced to argue that I'm townier than other players who are likely town. I haven't had to defend myself at all during regular day phases & thus haven't. What's scummy about this? I'm unable to address this concern unless you explain why you think it's scummy.

3. You say I'm scummy because I've been wrong. That's the BoP fallacy. I'd like to address this concern in three ways.

First, I want you to understand that I've mislynched less than it seems in large part because of the nomination phases. I was responsible for mislynching Wazoo & Fusco but I don't think it's fair to say I'm responsible for mislynching Irrelephant or Vedith when options were limited by the scum themselves. After all, both Irrelephant & Vedith voted themselves. I don't think it's fair to say I'm responsible for those mislynches, especially the mislynch on Irrelephant since I called him likely town as he went down.

Second, I'm not the only player who voted these players. The relevant consideration here is whether I'm scummier than SR, because from your perspective at least one of us is scum. SR voted all these players as well. Is it fair to exclusively hold me responsible for these mislynches when SR voted these players as well? I don't think so.

Third, I mislynch much more than people realize. In fact, I can point you to a game where I exclusively led mislynches the whole game until town lost (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77661). As such, I don't think it's fair to apply BoP to me when I'm not perfect & often lead mislynches as town. Can you please explain why you're holding me to such a high standard when you know I'm prone to mislynching?

4. You say I'm scummy for changing my read on SR.

I don't think that's scummy so please explain why you think reevaluating reads is scummy. I reevaluate the game based on new information, and in particular Vedith's flip changed everything for me. Yesterday, SR betrayed an informed perspective about Vedith's flip that never comes from town & I said as much yesterday when I realized SR might be scum over Vedith. I can point you to the specific posts that betray this perspective & explain exactly why it shows that SR's scum if you need more clarification. Either way, I'd like you to explain why you think changing reads is scummy.

5. You say I'm scummy because you don't understand why I was locktown on SR. To be clear, failing to understand why someone believes something isn't reason to call that person scummy. That said, I'll explain why I called SR locktown.

First, I call players locktown even though what I mean is likely town. The "locktown" language doesn't mean it's a "lock." It's a way of speaking.

Second, I called SR likely town because he offered tons of analysis on D1, he didn't seem phased at all by me or RC calling him scummy, he seemed to be reevaluating reads fluidly in ways that isn't easy for scum to fake, he almost replaced out the game but stayed in & I mistakenly read that as town, and finally because RC called him town & I tend to trust RC's townreads. Was I wrong about SR? Yes. He's scum & I know this now. He's competent scum in that he knows how to fake lots of town-like analysis but at the end of the day he's scum & that became clear with Vedith's flip.

6. You say I'm scummy because I was confident in voting SR. As explained above, I was confident in voting SR because of Vedith's flip. Yes, I was wrong on two major lynches in this game but that doesn't mean I don't trust myself to eventually get things right. I have confidence in my reads over the reads of anyone else in this game & sometimes it takes a few mislynches to get on the right track.

7. You know for a fact that I was nominated twice in a row. Can you please explain why you think scum me would take that risk even though I almost got lynched the first time?

8. What's your read on SR? You've said a lot about me but nothing about SR & I find that concerning. What do you think of the fact that SR refuses to vote for Xtox even though from SR's perspective Xtox is confirmed scum? Doesn't that give you some insight that maybe SR's faking all of this?

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:05 am

In post 2886, DoubtingThomas wrote:also why did you vote vedith of chen?

If you're asking why I voted either of Vedith/Chen, it's because I had no choice but to vote them or myself.

If you're asking why Vedith over Chen, it's because Volx insisted on Vedith over Chen & because Vedith's flip provided the most amount of information about SR's alignment.

I started to suspect both were town the moment they were nominated but there's not much I can do to stop a mislynch during a nomination phase that limits who you're able to lynch.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:09 am

In post 2885, DoubtingThomas wrote:wait, why did you vote me again?

I came into today voting you because my initial read on the game after Vedith's flip was you/SR as scum & I assumed you'd vote me no matter what. I suspect you because you disappeared from the game after D1 in ways that isn't normal for town you & and you've been pushing my mislynch all game without much deeper thought about my alignment other than saying I'm scum for things that you know are NAI.

That said, I realized SR was a higher probability lynch based on his slip yesterday & the fact that you were playing to your town meta in the earliest parts of the game when you argued with RC & the fact that both of you have been underwhelming after D1 but SR's been sheeping all the mislynches while you haven't.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:09 am

I can't wait until SR finds himself in a third 1v1.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:23 am

What is keeping you from voting SR, Volx?

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:40 pm

I agree about Auro.

I also think SR's refusal to call Auro scum suggests strongly that they're partners.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:43 pm

Can you vote SR, Alonzo?

Tell me what you need me to do to make that happen.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:49 pm

I'm not trying to speculate too much about this but I think the most likely reason Auro replaced is probably because of stuff in the scum PM related to bussing SR.

I'm not saying Auro's scum but it's what crossed my mind as a reason why he'd randomly replace out.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:11 pm

I know SR's scum.

I don't know his partners yet.

I also don't think it's helpful to talk about this stuff because it's going to help scum decide who to nominate.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:13 pm

In post 2908, Alonzo wrote:What's your DT read?

I think he's likely scum with SR.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:25 pm

That's exactly what I've been saying, Chenn!

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 pm

DT?

I have no objection as you already know.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:00 pm

It's where SR says I was scumreading him when I wasn't.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:10 pm

These posts, Chenn:

Spoiler:

In post 2444, scum reading wrote:You have just changed one of your strongest town reads to a scum read like it's nothing. Do you believe you're making sense?

Of course I get paranoid of your alignment if you are willing to throw me as bait like that. It seemed like you just wanted to do anything to survive.

This was in response to me saying that we should lynch SR if Vedith flips town. I never said anything that suggested Vedith was town.

But SR interprets my conditional statement as me changing my read on SR from town to scum & in doing so SR betrays knowledge that Vedith's flipping town. If SR was uncertain about Vedith's alignment, he wouldn't have interpreted my conditional statement as saying anything about SR's alignment.

This is expanded upon in these next posts:

In post 2476, scum reading wrote:
In post 2471, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2451, scum reading wrote:
What the fuck are you talking about?
This

In post 2397, Shoshin wrote:Lynch Vedith.

If he's town, lynch SR tomorrow.
Why are you assuming that Vedith is town, SR? What the fuck?
Because of the post you made. It makes sense if you're scum to make a post like that. You're the informed minority. You DO know Vedith is town and so you just set up my next mislynch.

And then, I ask, why do you think I am SCUM when you have defended me so hard up until this moment where you got hard pushed and panicked and made a post like that.

In post 2499, scum reading wrote:
In post 2486, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2483, scum reading wrote:??? Does my post baffle you or what? I don't get it
You're saying Vedith is town when he hasn't flipped yet???
My whole point of view is that you are scum that said "Lynch vedith and if he flips town, lynch sr next". If I believe you are scum, you are the informed minority, so, as an informed minority scum, you say lynch vedith, he will flip town and then you'll follow my lynch through.

This whole case comes from my paranoia because you gave up your strongest town read, which was a lazy tr by the way, since it's true, I've been a lurker this game, and it looks like you took me with you up to this point and then you just throw me like bait. I'm the easiest bait because of my lack of content. I just don't get why you'd say that, I've townread you up until you post that shit, we had the same scum reads and all, why do you post something like that if not as an attempt to try and survive when being pushed?

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:50 pm

In post 2926, volxen wrote:My current solve is Xtox/DoubtingThomas/Scumreading for the scumteam.

Finally you get there.

I've been thinking this since the moment Vedith flipped town.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:51 pm

I have a 0% win rate as scum.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:56 pm

SR thinks you're my partner too, DT.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:57 pm

Yes, correct.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:58 pm

SR's "case" on me (if you can call it a "case") was based around us being partners, DT.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:01 pm

SR's case on me, based almost entirely on the idea that DT's my partner:

Spoiler:

In post 2720, scum reading wrote:
In post 1705, Shoshin wrote:Best reason for lynching Volx today: to prevent Auro's mislynch later.
Here, Shoshin is already defending Auro. I do have to admit it's a bold move.
In post 1745, Shoshin wrote:SR's locktown.
The scum are within DT, Clem, Vedith, and Fusco.
Pay attention to her words.
In post 1853, Shoshin wrote:If DT's town, he's letting a personal grudge get in the way of this game.
In this post, her tendency is to believe DT is scum, but she didn't really push this idea throughout the game.
In post 1946, Shoshin wrote:DT pushing my lynch because says he can't work with me is pretty scummy.
She pointed this out, but has never pushed DT, at all.
In post 2109, Shoshin wrote:Sorry I'm lynching you Irrel if you're town, I'm just paranoid because you townread Fusco.
This is a bad reasoning, also, you said this after this:
In post 1736, Shoshin wrote:
In post 875, Shoshin wrote:I'm never voting you, Irrel.
I said this on D1.
Yet, you voted because you didn't agree on a scum read?
In post 2267, Shoshin wrote:Auro, where's your vote on Fusco?
Here, she's pushing the first mislynch and gets Auro in to vote with her because the majority of people were already scum reading Fus, so this is a smart move, not necessarily risky.
In post 2296, Shoshin wrote:How am I scummier than Vedith/Chenn?
Now with this, I remember the nomination list. This was perfect for Shoshin, as she was being town read by town. In retrospect, that lynch list advantages Shoshin in every way. Chennisden is an easy mislynch bait because of him being a lurker, just like me. Now, watch what happens next:
In post 2306, Shoshin wrote:Vedith, please explain in greater detail why you're scumreading SR.
She's still town reading me for her own reasons that she never mentioned.
In post 2320, Shoshin wrote:I've lost motivation to play mafia in general.
At this moment, she was being voted and pressured by a lot of people. This is AtE and she used it to escape a lynch.
In post 2366, Shoshin wrote:How do you know SR is scum?
She's still town reading me...
In post 2374, Shoshin wrote:It's possible that SR's scum but I'm not going to get there is nobody gives strong reasons for the read. "Coasting" isn't sufficient when that's half the game.
Now, watch this progression. An 8 post difference in between theses 2 post. This reading progression is really off. She was already preparing my mislynch for today in this moment, because of my lurkiness. She needed me alive because I sheeped her for a large portion of the game.
In post 2397, Shoshin wrote:Lynch Vedith.
If he's town, lynch SR tomorrow.
This is where that whole case was debated. Of course I was paranoid, again, this seemed like she was preparing my mislynch. And it looks like it happened.
In post 2400, Shoshin wrote:Town Vedith doesn't keep making this argument that I mislynched Irrel when I townread the guy.
According to my earlier posts, you lynched Irrel because "Sorry irrel, you townreading Fus is making me paranoid" after saying Irrel would never be a lynch for you. What a weak reasoning to escape a nominee list in which you've placed yourself.
In post 2498, Shoshin wrote:I still think it's the DT/Chen/Vedith team. It's the least complicated solve. And they gave us a nice gift by nominating themselves to help us test it during even phase.
She didn't really talk about DT too much. Look at this list of scum reads and then look at the nominee list from yesterday. Does that ring any bells? Why isn't she pushing chennisden today? Because she abuses Vedith's meta read on me, even though he didn't even discuss it. She's pushing a scum agenda on me based on meta that she hasn't read.
In post 2517, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2515, scum reading wrote:This is where I'm at for now, reads will most likely change post-flip.
Why are you scumreading me for saying my reads might change post-flip?

In post 2518, Shoshin wrote:
In post 2515, scum reading wrote:This is where I'm at for now, reads will most likely change post-flip.
The phrase "reads will most likely change post-flip" implies an informed perspective about the flip. Do you realize that?
These two posts were distorted and she tried to portray me as scum, when, in reality, what I've said made perfect sense.
In post 2555, Shoshin wrote:VOTE: chennisden

In post 2596, Shoshin wrote:VOTE: Chennisden
Let's just get on with this.
She's pushing her alleged "scum read". If you think about it, the nominee list, in retrospect, after Vedith's flip,was heavily in her favor. She needed to vote whoever and she'd be fine.
In post 2643, Shoshin wrote:VOTE: Vedith
This proves my point above.
In post 2671, Shoshin wrote:VOTE: DoubtingThomas
This is the weirdest vote and it is a huge bluff. She has always mentioned DT is scum, yet she throws a vote this late in the stage for WIFOM, and then immediately votes for me. She didn't say anything regarding her DT vote.
In post 2672, Shoshin wrote:VOTE: scum reading

In post 2721, scum reading wrote:
In post 661, Auro wrote:>Bad push on Irre's excitement and refusal to answer my questions asking why
>Refusal to explain stances
>"I'm not scum, I'm disappointed in you"
>"If you want to push my lynch I'll push a lynch on you"
>"It's absurd you think I'm scum"

Also:
In post 618, Shoshin wrote:When I beat you as scum, RC, I'm going to be so town that you're going to be telling everyone never to lynch me as I lead your mislynch.
I get the feeling she's deliberately not putting in effort to look towny from this quote, and for some reason thinks that should get her townread?

In post 1174, Shoshin wrote:
In post 1171, Auro wrote:Trusting RC + I'm fine with a DT lynch independently anyway.
Why are you trusting RC? What're your independent reasons to lynch DT? What's your preferred lynch?

In post 1217, Shoshin wrote:Hey DT, you're not going to get RC lynched today so why don't you vote someone else?

In post 1297, Shoshin wrote:DT's scum. He shouldn't be scumreading me at this point.

In post 1435, Shoshin wrote:I'm locktown on Auro but otherwise okay reads.

In post 1515, Shoshin wrote:
In post 1512, Auro wrote:Shoshin, I'd like for you to respond to my earlier question re: when I became locktown for you.
While rereading, post 122.

In post 1745, Shoshin wrote:SR's locktown.

The scum are within DT, Clem, Vedith, and Fusco.

In post 1951, Shoshin wrote:Irrel, or Auro, or Alonzo, or someone, please ask DT what his reads are. It appears he has none.

In post 2439, Shoshin wrote:Fuck it, I'm done with this game.

I'll stick around to sheep Auro since he's the only person making sense.

In post 2677, Shoshin wrote:SR is scum, Volx. There's no getting around that simple fact.

I voted them so at this point your lynch options are me or SR. If one of us is town, the game's over.
Look at all these posts. Notice all the commentary on DT's slot, yet she never pushed him.

Shoshin also locktowns auro and claims she'll sheep his vote and lately they've distanced from each other when in comparison with the early game.

Shoshin's claiming that I'm scum, yet her scum team was DT/Chenn/Fus, but she's never pushed DT. Which makes sense. DT is lurking as he is, if it boils down to a moment where shoshin / auro are pressured, DT is an easy bus. That's why she didn't push him yet.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:02 pm

In post 2940, DoubtingThomas wrote:shoshin, i give you a hint that i am town. what's the solve?

I'll tell you tomorrow.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:04 pm

I take issue with your use of the term "rebuttal." This isn't a debate.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:05 pm

I haven't read your "rebuttal" in full because I didn't feel that you responded to the first part in good faith & stopped reading after that.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:05 pm

You know for a fact that certain things are NAI for me & yet you've been pushing me as scum in this game for those things. I'd like an example of a town game where you did this.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:15 pm

I rarely get mislynched as town.

I'm very difficult to lynch as town when I'm putting the effort to keep myself alive.

This game is an example of why that's the case.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:16 pm

In my three scum games, I've been lynched in one of them.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:18 pm

I wonder if DT's going to call me town after SR flips scum, or if he's going to keep saying I'm scum???

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:18 pm

I think you're the one being shitty, DT.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:21 pm

I'm glad you recognize at least this much.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:22 pm

I can say whatever I want.

And rather than waste my time addressing your concerns in a pointless back-and-forth that you've turned into a debate with "rebuttals," I'd rather let SR's flip speak for itself.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:24 pm

I accepted to interact with you if you were willing to interact with me in good faith. I don't believe you are doing so & there's a simpler way to address your concerns: SR's flip.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:25 pm

We clash because you obsess too much over the "proper" way to play instead of finding scum.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:26 pm

Like, I hate how Volx plays but I'm not going to lynch him for it.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:27 pm

In post 2967, DoubtingThomas wrote:see and this is why you are scummy. you are not concerned about my alignment. you dont want to solve me. you've been pushing mislynches all day and (as far as i can tell) is wrong about me and refuse to interact with me

Who said I don't want to solve you?

I'm waiting to see if you vote SR. The fact you haven't yet isn't helping you.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:28 pm

You spend lots of time aggressively insulting people, which I don't like nor do I think is proper etiquette. But I'm not calling you scum for it.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:29 pm

Scum waiting for a townie to vote me doesn't bus yet.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:32 pm

Mafia isn't "a game of engaging." That's where you're wrong. Ignoring certain things & testing reactions is no less legitimate an approach than responding to pointless questions.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:32 pm

In post 2975, DoubtingThomas wrote:Such a level one thinking.

This is what scum said to me the last time I caught them.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:33 pm

I think applying so-called "level one thinking" works more often than not to find the scum.

I also think overthinking stuff is how towns end up losing more often than not.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:33 pm

In post 2978, DoubtingThomas wrote:You scum read me for ignoring your pointless questions because you ignored me.

I didn't scum read you for ignoring my questions. That's a lie.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:35 pm

That's a lie.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:38 pm

Quote where I called you scum for ignoring me.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:38 pm

In post 2987, volxen wrote:VOTE: Scumreading

Finally, holy shit.

I'm town so SR has to flip scum.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:39 pm

In post 2988, Shoshin wrote:Quote where I called you scum for ignoring me.

This is directed at DT.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:48 pm

I think DT's angry that he's going to lose to town me.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:50 pm

In post 2988, Shoshin wrote:Quote where I called you scum for ignoring me.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:54 pm

Okay.

DT's imploding.

Shoshin · Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:53 pm

If none of us know, that means he's scum.

Shoshin · Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:28 am

Who do you want to lynch?

Shoshin · Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:57 am

SR seemed a lot more willing to lynch Chenn over you, Volx. Not saying you're scum but when I'm forced to make these subtle decisions I'm looking at every detail. Is there anything in this game outside your scum range?

Shoshin · Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:01 am

Volx, do not ever talk to me about what's possible, only what's probable.

Shoshin · Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:47 am

I'm probably voting Volx today.

Shoshin · Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:27 am

I support that idea.

Shoshin · Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:46 pm

I don't intend on an RNG vote.

I'll be voting the person I think most likely to be scum.

Shoshin · Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:34 am

So we lynch Volx today & DT tomorrow if Volx flips town?

Shoshin · Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:00 am

None of Alonzo/Volx are confirmed town, Chenn, so why wouldn't you want them lynched over yourself?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:18 am

Chenn, why is Volx more town than Alonzo?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:24 am

We might have to lynch Chenn today to make sure Flavor doesn't manipulate him later.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:29 am

You're never convincing me you're town, Flavor, so what's your plan for convincing others I'm scum?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:30 am

As I said, there's nothing you can do. I'm immediately voting you tomorrow.

I'm curious to see what you come up with to convince others I'm scum.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:31 am

I won't blame you for surrendering.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:34 am

To be fair, if you're town, there's at least one scum who has been nominated.

If you're able to direct the lynch onto scum today, I'll reconsider your alignment.

If we lynch town today, I'll immediately vote you tomorrow.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:34 am

And I'll let you choose the lynch too.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:39 am

I think there's an equal chance between Chenn/Volx.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:46 am

I don't make cases.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:47 am

Time to get reading, then.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:47 am

Alternatively, you & DT can just surrender.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:52 am

You don't need to make a case to choose who to lynch.

As for who you choose, I'm giving you an opportunity to show that you're town.

If you don't want to take the opportunity, I'll choose the lynch but you won't be able to show me that you're town regardless of the flip.

The choice is up to you.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:55 am

I don't care what your reads are, Flavor.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:59 am

I cared what your reads were in the other game?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:02 am

I think you should surrender, Flavor. Keep your dignity.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:02 am

Or maybe you're still trying to get that 1v1 with me. You're going to lose quite badly if that's what you're looking for.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:07 am

Chenn, why'd you townread SR earlier?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:09 am

Chenn, what are the chances you vote me over FL?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:30 am

Yes, I know we're on the same page, Volx.

Why are you suddenly assuming we're not?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:25 pm

In post 3182, volxen wrote:So I guess FL has settled on the strategy of painting the scumteam as Shoshin/Volxen/Scumreading and trying to hard pocket Alonzo and Chennisden.

This was always the only available strategy to scum.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:27 pm

In post 3174, volxen wrote:
In post 3169, Shoshin wrote:Yes, I know we're on the same page, Volx.

Why are you suddenly assuming we're not?
Same page as in your 100% convinced that both FL and DT are scum? OK then.

You didn't answer my question. What made you assume we're not on the same page with respect to FL/DT?

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:30 pm

I already know you're scum, FL. You can stop talking to me.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:37 pm

I love hearing how I'm bad at the game by caught scum.

Shoshin · Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:53 pm

I don't have the option to lynch DT or FL today, Volx.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:40 am

How do you feel about lynching Alonzo, Volx?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:57 am

If DT's town, who between Alonzo/Chenn is most likely to be aligned with Auro?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:23 am

In post 2999, DoubtingThomas wrote:i think scums are alonzo and auro

ill push there

glgl

I'm leaning towards Alonzo.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:24 am

DT, please explain why you went from scumreading Alonzo to townreading him.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:34 am

If DT is town, it means one of you/Alonzo is scum.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:34 pm

VOTE: Alonzo

Alright, let's just go with Alonzo.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:48 pm

I have the most posts in the game, Alonzo.

Why are you suddenly so survivalistic?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:49 pm

Are you still pushing the idea that I'm scum?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Do you believe that you're less scummy than Volx/Chenn?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:53 pm

How are you less scummy than Volx/Chenn?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:58 pm

UNVOTE:

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:59 pm

From my perspective, Alonzo, I don't trust you to make the right call at LYLO.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:02 pm

DT thinks I'm scum, Volx.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:05 pm

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:06 pm

If you want the game to end, DT, you as scum can surrender by telling the mod you surrender.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:09 pm

Mod didn't let you surrender?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:22 pm

I don't understand how you're so clueless about this game, Alonzo.

1. RC didn't have anything close to a "free scum win." Had he stayed in the game, he would have come under heavy scrutiny for leading a mislynch on Wazoo.

2. You've been calling me scummy this entire game even though I'm town. How can I trust you to make the right call at LYLO & vote scum over me?

3. You didn't vote for scum SR. Why not?

4. Why aren't you townreading me yet?

5. Why are you suddenly so survivalistic? Do you think it's likely that one of Chenn/Volx is scum? If so, please explain.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:22 pm

Why Volx over Chenn?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:23 pm

DT, where are you voting & why?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:12 pm

Town Alonzo = Scum DT.

Do you realize this, Alonzo?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:14 pm

Town DT = Scum Alonzo.

DT should be voting Alonzo today & nobody else.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:52 pm

Do you understand the difference between odd days and nomination days?

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:53 pm

In post 3292, Alonzo wrote:scum! DT just passed over the chance to mislynch me..

Scum DT wants you alive because your flip confirms him as scum & because you're the most likely to vote me or another townie.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:22 pm

Alonzo, link me your most recent scum games.

Shoshin · Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:56 pm

But you prefer scum, Chenn?

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:17 am

In post 3308, Ankamius wrote:anybody else around that can help me figure out what exactly went wrong with this game?

We just lynched scum so why are you saying anything went wrong?

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:24 am

If you're town, there's scum within the group of Alonzo/Chenn/Volx. Please find the scum in this group.

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:45 am

Synopsis:

1. RC led a mislynch on D1 & then replaced out. Alonzo replaced him.

2. Scum nominated me, Irrel, & Volx. We conclude it's likely three town & lynch Irrel. He flips town.

3. I led a mislynch on Fusco.

4. Scum nominated me, Chenn, & Vedith. We lynch Vedith. He flips town.

5. I forced a 1v1 with SR. We lynched SR. He flipped scum.

6. Scum nominated Alonzo, Chenn, & Volx.

That's the basics of what has happened this game. There's a couple nuances that make this easier from your perspective.

1. Volx immediately hammered SR yesterday after DT voted me. Thus, town DT = town Volx. From your perspective, then, town DT means both of Alonzo/Chenn are scum.

2. I'm town for a bunch of reasons but mostly because I was nominated twice in a row after nearly getting lynched the first time & because I forced a 1v1 with SR at LYLO when I easily could have directed the lynch onto town. Notably, your slot expressed a preference for lynching Chenn over SR.

From your perspective, the ideal lynch today is between Alonzo/Chenn. If one of them flips town, it means that DT's scum.

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:11 am

Please review the way RC replaced out at the end of D1. Tell me if that comes from scum RC.

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:18 am

Thanks for confirming you're scum, Ank.

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:23 pm

What do you mean, Alonzo?

Shoshin · Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:19 pm

Hey Volx, why can't scum be you/Auro?

Shoshin · Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:32 pm

I guess Ank's given up?

Shoshin · Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:22 am

VOTE: Alonzo

Alright, whatever.

I think Alonzo's flipping town but so are Volx/Chenn.

Shoshin · Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:36 am

Are you hammered yet?

Shoshin · Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:36 am

Do you agree with the general assessment that lynching DT/Ank should win the game?