Fire on the Mountain [Over]

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I think game is solvable to the point of 4 rapid fire lynches, and I want to get it there if possible within the next couple days

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I'd be really really excited to hear from one of the objectors about why the current method is bad and what isn't working about it.

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oh...

shit, you got the thing you said you'd get at 48 hours didn't you

No, but I have a specific date now

I can't share officially until 48 hours but it's close :'(

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I've been internally panicking over the past couple days, I've known for a little while now.

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probably externally panicking a bit too

sorry

alright

just need to have a very confident townblock then

yeah we need ummm

so I think we can narrow it down by who is capable of being buddies w/ who at this point

there's a lot of stuff I think we can just straight up rule out and the more people we can just locktown the better
how much of my convo w/ dannflor did you read?

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what convinces you on RC-town Enter?

I'm trying to get to this point, but people aren't working with me.
My stance on RC is that he's town until it makes sense for him not to be.
Right now the game could make sense with RC as town, and for this reason I'm doing my very very best to try and rule out every possibility that anyone else could be scum.
This is what frustrates me most about xtoxm and Liger and people like them at the moment - people who are saying scum is likely in the town block or people who want to push the town block but refuse to town spew themselves or show even a glimmer of critical thought behind it.
Approaching RC scum right now is ridiculous and stupid considering how many of the other players in this game could easily be scum and are playing to a scum WINCON. It will absolutely create chaos, and for that reason RC needs to be scum beyond a reasonable doubt before he's approached by it.
For that reason I won't consider RC scum until I've ruled out every possibility. I thought I had more time so I was going to ride this out a little closer to the end, and my fear was that he might have been scum w/ Rei considering she's played reasonably well, but I don't see her pushing a specifically town mindset and iirc, the "rei is locktown" thought came from PoR.
I asked Rei earlier what she thought of the possibility that RC was scum to see what I could get from that, but considering that it's quite possible she's scum w/ him her answer could easily be altered so hiding this now seems like poor judgement.
My end-all objective is to not leave town with a scum-infested town block so I'm going over everything to the best of my ability to try and make sure there aren't weeds in the garden.
I want to make it very very very clear that I am not pushing RC as scum right now. I do not think RC is scum right now. I'm currently ignoring any chance of paranoia on my RC read, and my approach is to verify everyone else is town before even looking in that direction.
I hate that I made this post because it shows a sign that people might be willing to lynch RC and I don't want that considered in the slightest until we get solid proof otherwise, but I think it's getting to the point where I need to be transparent with everything.

Do you have thoughts on this?

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I skimmed the whole thing

but be aware that I don't retain stuff when I read things just after I woke up

Ha, that's more than fine, I will go over the parts that I need from you in detail when you get the chance, then.

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His day one was really town and I think he would have rammed through Xtoxm d3 as scum here, but otherwise he's sort of faded as a presence for the most part and the fact that I have nothing recent to point to is... a bit more iffy.

the game would be a lot simpler if I could just townlock him honestly :/

I agree with both of these sentiments.
That's why I do townlock him. I townlock RC until the game becomes less simple to not townlock him. Unfortunately, due to IRL conditions I can't afford that attitude for the moment.
I do think that it is very very unlikely for rei to be scum if RC is not also scum this game, would you agree?

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oh btw, Creature flipped my tell this game

I'm pretty certain he's town

So, I trust you for the most part but I need to verify both Creature and Vedith because I've sort of been sheeping you on the latter and it is possible Creature is capable of a scum game. I haven't been paying large amounts of attention to either of their posts since I started calling them town a while ago and I need to go back to both of them. It would be really helpful if Vedith would post more or if I could even see his train of thought.

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I have to go really soon for work but I'll look over my notes and try to identify the most (???) slots for me when I'm around again

Alright. Identifying these slots is helpful, I think, but mostly only if you give me the reasons the other slots are not ??? and also if your ??? slots come with possible partner combinations for me to work through.

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idk

I feel like Rei's treatment of RC during d4 was a bit too obvious to be SvS combined with RC's... lack of confidence(?), that feels like a really clumsy interaction for those two to be having

if there's good reason to only see Rei as possible with RC, that's probably enough to townlock her

I'm not going to townlock her because I'm not sure on this sentiment but I'll keep her close to townlock and when I get the chance I'll go over her again.

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Can we clear xtoxm based on the fact that everyone else grapes has voted is town?

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that's combined with me thinking his d3 was not very likely faked

I'm referring to his reads and thought processes, not the replace out

Noted, I'll go over this, thanks

gotta run bye

Alright, bye! Have a good day!

Don't forget your lunch!

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I see.

To be straight, you have the same feeling about DDL that you had about Shoshin, and that is the limit to the similarities in the push for either of their lynches?

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or = ddl

Lots of replacements this game...

He already knew they were the same person or should ahve known it

How was I supposed to know an alt account replaced into its own main account? I knew there were replacements, but I don't know alts well enough to know who's are who's. I knew there was a replacement on that slot, not that they were the same person.

Yep. My b, I realized that you could have read Anks post either way after I already posted this response.

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Jingle and RC are town for me until they aren't. Trust that if they have an anti town agenda it will show itself eventually. Games go a lot better if you trust but verify those two.

Why Jingle?

It's how I've decided to read certain players. Over time I've realized that some players are hard to impossible for me to accurately read, so I kinda don't. I assume some people are town until they show otherwise. It's just how I approach the game and certain players.

Right, I get why you do it. That's not my question.

My question is why jingle?

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Ok so I need you to make things make sense for me, rei. This is stream of consciousness, right? This is also your second game of mafia?

Why can I not follow the stream? What am I missing in your process?

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What are you not showing me?

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Holding.

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FF why is your defense of yourself "your townread townreads me" as opposed to "im town"

I'm saying why not trust the person you are tring if you have doubts.

This is a good point by RC and a less good one by FF

How so? Me shouting that I'm town doesn't do anything to change people's mind if they see me as scummy. My attempt there was to show people they might be wrong scum reading me, and if people they are strongly town reading are strongly town reading me then one of those people are wrong. If multiple people who are being tred by multiple other people are saying the same thing about me then maybe the truth is I'm town and the others are just trying to keep me viable for a mislynch later on, since we appear to be eliminating potential hiding slots.

OK. Just because someone is town and that town player is town reading someone doesn't make that player town. In addition, two players scum reading you and two players town reading you doesn't make for a solid argument either way.

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Fluffposting is literally what keeps me in this game. I will go insane if I'm denied of that.

I'm not sure if someone else said something or if you're trying to say something about me, but I never said you mostly post fluff, I was responding to this and asking how you approach the game.

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What are you not showing me?

I have intentionally hid all my paranoias for this game, but that shouldn't affect anything?

That's probably a solid way to play, and no, I don't think that should be affecting it. I'll see if I can figure it out.

Lynching me will just cost town another vanilla.

I honestly don't care if you guys lynch me. I replaced in to help move the game along. If you all agree that my death tells you something about who is scum, then vote away.

FF has a lot of individual scum cred for posts like this

Than lynch me bro. I'm not sure how me stating the obvious that I am much less invested in the outcome of this game as other people in here are. I joined the game because I saw that NSG wasn't getting any offers to replace in and I'm waiting on other games to fill. If you wanna lynch this slot to move the game forward than let's get it the fuck on.

What kind of attitude is this? Really?

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Fish you're not helping by responding like this. :/

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Fish calm down or take a break.

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Nah
I'm not afraid to be direct about my insults.
I legit don't remember who said that to me.

How do you see the rest of the game playing out?

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Especially the rest of this day.

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Liger why am I town

I think you're literally the only player in the game who hasn't been paranoid of me at some point

Watashi

What does this mean?

RU- the lost post 5845, then the talk about having to reread, but then gut towning 2 people just a few posts later. And a lot of what looks like fluff posting.

I stopped my reread when I got what I wanted to achieve. Honestly, I'm glad that happened too. I was not thrilled of reading Enter posts again. Also those two reads that I guttowned.... has a very long history.

Fluffposting is literally what keeps me in this game. I will go insane if I'm denied of that.

What Enter posts?
What do you mean by your first paragraph here?

This game hardcounters how I approach games.
And I hate it.

How do you approach games?

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Oh yeah Dann.
I think he's just simply town here too.
But then I never understood the paranoia on him in the first place.

It's the way he talks for most people, and he's made some relatively hasty moves, the most recent of which I misread and that lead to some intense discussion.

Am I wrong to state that FF is your only real scum read at this point?

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How do you approach games?

I was talking about how I sort people.
And that... is my trade secret!

Fair.

What does this mean?

That means "I" in Japanese.

What is the relevance to the situation quoted?

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What Enter posts?
What do you mean by your first paragraph here?

I was just poking fun at you.

Oh.

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I think you've said everyone is town except Liver and FF at this point? Is that a relatively accurate assessment of your stance?

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Am I wrong to state that FF is your only real scum read at this point?

Nah you're not wrong, as much as I hate to admit it.
I have few people that my read oscillate at the rate of 1.3 kHz.

OK so not relevant at all but check this out

Velocity and Speed are both in a distance over time (ft/sec, for example)

Frequency is in cycles per second, but cycles is technically a hidden unit, so hertz is converted to 1/60sec

So if you ignore the technicality of "cycles" not being a part of speed or velocity, if you run at 60 feet per minute that can be converted from 60 ft/1 min to 60 ft /60 sec and since hertz is technically 1/60 sec you can convert again such that if you run at 60 feet a minute you can say 1 foot hurts.

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Fish calm down or take a break.

How am I coming off as uncalm? I dont like when people try to manage me when I'm not in need of it. Please don't do this.

Stop responding the way you've been responding, it's not helpful. If you're calm, control should be easily attainable and I shouldn't have to ask.

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Like why do I tr jingle as a default? I've seen jingle in action and when he's on and town it's a beautiful thing to see. We just finished a game together and had it solved and won on day 2. I can see a thought process that is incredibly transparent and one that I can understand. That all makes him town to me until he shows otherwise.

What is beautiful about Jingle's play this game that is causing you to TR him?

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What is the relevance to the situation quoted?

I basically townread Dann the entire time too, so

Understood.

No I think Liger is town.
And it's one of my read that is not oscillating.

Alright. How much has this list changed from your last list?

But then, I'm not really trusting my non-solid-townreads and mostly relying on other's reads because as I said this game counters me.

Understood

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Fish calm down or take a break.

How am I coming off as uncalm? I dont like when people try to manage me when I'm not in need of it. Please don't do this.

Stop responding the way you've been responding, it's not helpful. If you're calm, control should be easily attainable and I shouldn't have to ask.

Ok, but just because you say I need to calm down doesn't mean I'm not calm. If you showed where you think I was being uncouth it would help me understand where you're coming from with saying that.

However, telling me to calm down is going to have the normal reaction for most people, i.e. not the one you're advocating for...

I did show you where, and it has the normal reaction when I ask for it from other people.

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Like why do I tr jingle as a default? I've seen jingle in action and when he's on and town it's a beautiful thing to see. We just finished a game together and had it solved and won on day 2. I can see a thought process that is incredibly transparent and one that I can understand. That all makes him town to me until he shows otherwise.

What is beautiful about Jingle's play this game that is causing you to TR him?

I don't know if you aren't understanding what I'm saying or if you are being intentionally obtuse.

My default read on jingle is town. Jingle needs to show scum mentality for me to change that read. Jingle hasn't done that, so defualt setting is still in acted.

I think it's the other way, actually.

What is difficult to read about Jingle, for you?

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I see you joined in 2013. Have you been playing mafia consistently since then? How has your game changed over time?

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What are you not showing me?

I have intentionally hid all my paranoias for this game, but that shouldn't affect anything?

That's probably a solid way to play, and no, I don't think that should be affecting it. I'll see if I can figure it out.

Lynching me will just cost town another vanilla.

I honestly don't care if you guys lynch me. I replaced in to help move the game along. If you all agree that my death tells you something about who is scum, then vote away.

FF has a lot of individual scum cred for posts like this

Than lynch me bro. I'm not sure how me stating the obvious that I am much less invested in the outcome of this game as other people in here are. I joined the game because I saw that NSG wasn't getting any offers to replace in and I'm waiting on other games to fill. If you wanna lynch this slot to move the game forward than let's get it the fuck on.

What kind of attitude is this? Really?

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OK that makes some things make a bit more sense.

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If you would reorient so that we are looking at the game as a hole here, I would very very much appreciate it. What is your read on the game as of right now?

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Enter, that's not me being mad man. That's literally me saying that if you guys feel like my lynch will move the game forward than go for it. No malice to that, no animosity.

If all I'm going to be is lynch bait for the rest of the game because of gamestate reads then I'd rather just eat rope than try and argue against a boogyman.

Whether or not you're mad here, asking us to lynch you doesn't move the game forward or help me or anyone else much at all.

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I've got at least three players trying to give up and eat rope and it's not helpful in the slightest. I need people to figure out what they're doing and how to spew themselves town. The idea that you're going to be the lynch in the back of everyone's head comes from those times when you escaped lynch by AtE. AtE town reads rarely last very long, in my experience, but solid pro town play really helps the game move forward and can get you into a more solid town position. I need players to do that instead of trying to give up and get themselves lynched.

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OK that makes some things make a bit more sense.

I'd like you to elaborate on what it sheds light on and how.

Your responses and approach very much feel like you're trying to take advantage of inexperience and the way you talk feels like its straight out of the newbie queue. I was trying to figure out why you sound like a newbie without necessarily playing like one.

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My theory was that it was possible you just hadn't played a lot of scum and you were new to scum and trying to use techniques there? Also the way you tried to scum read Dann coming out of it reads like you're trying to read new scum.

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creature is the single most universally townread slot in this game.
what is his scum motivation for challenging consensus reads?
why not just ride the mislynches others are pushing?

No, he isn't.

Why aren't you did of creature after 2059?

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creature is the single most universally townread slot in this game.
what is his scum motivation for challenging consensus reads?
why not just ride the mislynches others are pushing?

No, he isn't.

Why aren't you did of creature after 2059?

his play there compared to his play here is like night and day.

So is mine.

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But you're really suspicious of me

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creature is the single most universally townread slot in this game.
what is his scum motivation for challenging consensus reads?
why not just ride the mislynches others are pushing?

Scum motivation for challenging consensus is same as scum motivation for dann challenging consensus.

You can't scum read one player for the same feeling you town read the other players for.

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Townreads clarified so far:
Enter
Jingle
Ankamius?
Dannflor?

MaxwellPuckett

Personal gamble:
or town

Left:

Liger_Zero
Formerfish
Reiuji Utsuho
Vedith
RadiantCowbells
Xtoxm

I don't see anything earth shatteringly novel in his reads.

The funny thing is that he isn't even really challenging consensus because rei hasn't been consensus town for some time now and rc has also been challenged 4 times

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ive suspected a deep wolf for quite some time in this game, in fact i tr most of the poe and also tr the past 3 lynches. so creature doing that is further evidence is his favour fmpov.
your slot had actually been widely tr based on your predecessor ali, and only recently have people been starting to call it scum.
creature is locktown for me for a multitude of reasons.
im not looking to change your mind here, really. im trying to gauge if your read is genuine.
im happy for you to move onto my question about dann now if you are

Considering his slot was pushed for lynches on day 2 4 and 5 and I think 3 as well, you're wrong on him being universally townread also

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he has the facts of the situation correct, yes. we do need a pool of 4 that contains both scum. i dont agree with him on who those individuals are.

Really. Who do I think those individuals are?

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Also explain how we have the facts of the situation correct when my game state read blatantly disagrees with everything you've said about the game over the past couple pages?

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I guess on the plus side you were interacting with the thread again. Still not much of an improvement.

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or's posting at l-1 looked pretty townie to me, while you were absent at the time, so i dont find that switch alarming.

But Dann was still sring Or. It just went from Or being the guy and me being his buddy, to me being the guy and how Or would be my buddy. See, thats why its subtle, its just makes a small adjustment to the power matrix he is creating between or and myself.

Explain the difficulty with this, I'm not tracking.

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the problem is xtoxm has constantly asserted that the town block is incorrect and steam rolling through mislynches but offers no actual alternative or opposition

his pushes on prince and enter are vanity

and then when he actually does do something he's "helping this wagon along because X bad reason"

And these 2 come right after taking you off his scum list and putting you into a town bracket. The amount of waffle this guys is exhibiting would be found to be threatening by the likes of Waffle and Huddle House.

To be fair there has been an extraordinary amount of waffle this game from almost every slot.

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the problem is xtoxm has constantly asserted that the town block is incorrect and steam rolling through mislynches but offers no actual alternative or opposition

his pushes on prince and enter are vanity

and then when he actually does do something he's "helping this wagon along because X bad reason"

And these 2 come right after taking you off his scum list and putting you into a town bracket. The amount of waffle this guys is exhibiting would be found to be threatening by the likes of Waffle and Huddle House.

To be fair there has been an extraordinary amount of waffle this game from almost every slot.

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No weight given to tiers,

Town:
Jingle, Enter, RC

Null:
Ankamius, MaxwellPuckett, or, Vedith, Creature

Scum:
Xtox, Dann, RU, Liger

And keep in mind this is all based of tone from todays play.

How much of this has changed?

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say I flip town. then what? I don't think my flip unites town at all and will put it in more disarray.

the fact that dann's only thought of the case when I flip scum and its associations probably means he's town

Current thoughts on dann, please, as well as your explanation of why your flip does not unite town

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Which part? The whole thing? Can you be more specific in your question?

Yeah, sorry.

What is weird about him going from saying or is scum with you as a possible buddy to him saying you're scum with or as a possible buddy?

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Not much, I would say xtox might be out of the basement, or and creature go down to it. Id have to look back at maxs iso because i dont remember his posts from today. I know hes made some, they just havent stuck, Vedith has been a nonentity so far today.

SO yeah.

Xtox changed based on tone, or... ?

And then your reason for spreading creature and DDL? If you've already explained these just call me dumb and I'll reread - it's definitely possible I missed something.

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I am. Forgive me if I don't cowtow to you saying you're town. You did the same thing last game and then sat back as town tore into me and giggled your way to a win.

I take it this looks very little like your current sentiment?

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Its a subtle shift away from Or being scum. Like look, Dann has been sring Or for awhile right? Thats the impression i got from what ive read of Danns posts. The one tox asked me to look at had ors slot as the only one that stayed. I was the name he added to it, so he posited that I was ors scum partner. The post I quoted was the 1st where the way he described us changed. To me it looks like a first step in walking away from an or scum read by slying putting the emphasis on me being the lynchpin and not or.

So your argument is that Dann is trying to redirect from an Or lynch?

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Xtoxm what's your current read on FF?

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Possibly, it would depend on certain things. He could just be keeping both viable at the same time, seeing which way the wind blows to see which way he pushes harder.

Every player needs two scum reads at least. So you're saying you think he has no thoughts of his own and if another lynch was brought up, he'd be on board with that as well, because he doesn't particularly care one way or another?

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I get snippy sometimes with people who say things im obviously going to disbelieve based off recent events. Tox has no built trust with me to fall back on, and our most recent interaction was subpar. I know this and can prepare for an attempt at pocketing me as well, there are a lot of factors in play and need sorted first.

So you are wary because he recently had a solid performance, but his interaction with you and desire to sort you combined with the likelihood that you will be able to read him off a tell later moves him into null?

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Is there a reason to put xtoxm in the scum list prior to pushing for the tell you wanted to run on him, or...?

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FF if you get a chance will you look at the grapes ISO and then tell me if we can clear xtoxm off the fact that everyone else grapes has voted is town?

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I think he has created a narrative that ensures at least 1 mislynch.

Or is a wildcard. If or is town then Dann is setting up 2 mislynches and would push one after the other flipped green, resulting in 2 town flips and more people being doused or lit on fire (i really should have looked at this game before agreeing to sub in, I had no idea we were in a seminightless moutanous game...). If or is scum and is Danns partner it could be Dann parking a vote on or and then when he saw a way to get it off he did and then attempted to minimize his suspicion of or by putting me in the primary scum role.

OK. So you think the fact that he pushed you makes him more likely to be scum because you're town and you think he's pushing you as a mislynch?

Explain how Or makes sense to be scum with him here, I got the impression from your last post that you thought he was willing to lynch either of you, wouldn't the best way to sort this scenario be to push or?

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Is there a reason to put xtoxm in the scum list prior to pushing for the tell you wanted to run on him, or...?

Gut read of him was scum, he was doing some of the same scum distancing from the thread that id seem in a prior game. Here is willing to get up close and personal with me and let me see who he is. I didnt expect him to do that and it gives me enough pause to allow myself time to run something. I feel like I can get a good read off how we interact next.

Makes sense, I think.

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Im not sure if this thread bloating is helping or hindering finding scum bc it makes it really really hard to go back and read interactions
I dont think anyone who has been posting recently has been scum (i did read it all even if i couldnt understand all of what was said on a deeper level)

To be clear, you at town reading FF, myself, dann, ank, and xtoxm?

I apologize for bloating the thread, when I get to my computer I can try to help by getting through specific points.

Will you look at grapes and see if we can clear xtoxm based off the fact that everyone else he has voted has been town?

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To be clear im not saying "hyperposting is antitown" inherently but at some point we're just rehashing the same points over and over
Xtoxm ill admit i may be biased on but i dont think i had any such bias on formerfish and i think his thought process is consistent w an annoyed town replacement and not a scum one
Theres scum motive to a few things hes done (marginally, like i see it and its been talked abt already) but from the pov of town being pushed by him i dont think the suspicion of Dann is weird at all

What points do you think are being rehashed and do you think it is points being rehashed with the same people or different people, and do you apply the same value to each?

What do you think makes sense about the dann suspicions to you?

FF if you get a chance will you look at the grapes ISO and then tell me if we can clear xtoxm off the fact that everyone else grapes has voted is town?

I assume we are taking the fact that he voted your slot as another plus in his voting for town only right? So in your mind 3 if the 4 votes we're on town.

And yea as far a xtox goes I'm more paranoid for sure; for starters I can't tell if him expecting me to be obv-town in three posts when I clearly hadn't even read the game yet is him as town excited to sort me or scum trying to "box out" a threat real quick. And while it's early for this my crazy brain is telling me ya'll aren't scum/scum though I'm still mostly feeling you out anyways so blah

This doesn't ping me as s/s, this sounds kinda like scum trying to paint someone else as scummy. Why would scum xtox call out his scum partner and then have his scum partner shit on him in thread. This is a good point in favor of to town to me.

Grapes vote in 549 doesn't feel like a bus vote, it feels like a vote against someone who's hitting to close to home. It's like a shot across the bow.

I come out of that feeling much better about tox town.

Alright. So I very much agreed and I think we can call xtoxm town at this point, then?

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I want to see where you're coming from. That's why I asked.


I'll be back later.

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I'm not lynching you. I don't want you lynched. I want people who are saying they're Lynch bait to townread themselves instead of crying when people push them

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I legit think that Liver and DDL can't be scum and FF and DDL or FF and damn can't be scum and xtoxm is cleared so if we lynch ff or ddl and then work from there based on what the flip

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Like if Shoshin pushes someone they do that immediately assume she's scum and instigate a 1v1 they try to convince her that she's wrong. Etc. It's fucking stupid.

You're saying you think people engage in 1v1s to convince players they are not scum?

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No I'm saying that when I push someone they just assume that I'm scum and make it their God given mission to kill me

Oh I think everyone does that with everyone. People don't like being scum read and it's rarer to accept that your play was shit than it is to assume the other player is bad or scum. People just aren't allowed to call you bad because of your reputation, so they blame it on you being scum because there is no way that they could be playing poorly.

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*lick*

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Ok

Do you think fish flipping town clears jingle and fish flipping scum condemns him?

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VOTE: FormerFish

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I don't like how jingle has been behaving

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I don't necessarily like fishes reads or approach although I see how I could be wrong on them

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Screw it.


VOTE: or

If I'm wrong don't take it as me being wrong, take it as a policy lynch for your dumb name

[Enter]

Ooooh! Do we get to have another 30 page argument about policy lynching?

If we do I might hit 1.5k posts on it and then have more posts on EE and Enter than any other slot in the game with the exception of PoR/RC

[Enter]

Yes but if I get a few more posts on the Enter slot both of my accounts individually will be very high

[Enter]

True. And I'm almost 18% of total thread posts, getting close to 1/5 posts in the thread.

[Enter]

Or isn't flipping scum but you guys do w/e you want.
I will just go do more important things than try to convince you all you are wrong.

We can repeat this song and dance all we want. Beating my head against the wall isn't entertaining.

Sorry, lol.

Explain to me how we are repeating a song and dance?

[Enter]

or rather, explain to me what song and dance we are repeating?

[Enter]

Naw I just wanted you to say we're doing the same thing we did yesterday and the day before so I can make fun of you for your massive failure to understand the idea of a lynch pool and how they work.

[Enter]

We're not repeating a song and dance, we're just in the fourth verse of the same song we've been singing since day 2.

[Enter]

Would you please tell me we're making the same mistake here we made with mcqueen?
Because that would make me pretty happy.

[Enter]

I don't think that analogy helps you here.

Do stop teasing me please and outright say what you think is happening wrong and what you think will fix it. You keep getting me all excited and then you back out.

[Enter]

I wish you best fortune in the wars to come. I have done my part, and I am mentally checking out.

And what part is that, exactly?

You've managed to oppose two of the lynches, congratulations, but you've failed to provide input on what's going wrong or a better option at all.
Didn't you just recently say that lynching or would make you and jingle very happy?

Did you ever mentally check in?

Your contributions to this game have been little to none. Please, do tell me what's going wrong here, I'm dying to know.

[Enter]

btw if i was still fully invested in this game and playing off of my reads i'd be driving a lynch on liger js

Eh I'd lynch him on policy.

Enter. I have resigned and I am not fighting this. I am not here to convince you that you are wrong on this. I am not here to advice you to do something else. I am just gonna tell you are wrong and drop the mic and walk out. You do whatever you want in response to that, this is no longer my battle.

I am taking a page from Jingle book and gonna low effort this from here on out.

You resigned a while ago. You don't get credit for calling people wrong if you don't say why. Xtoxm does this too. You were right on mcqueen, but not for any reason other than if you call everyone in this game town, you will be correct 83% of the time.
We're lynching out of a pool, and we're ahead of the odds on lynching scum right now (1/4). You don't get to say "I was right last time therefore I'm right this time" if there's no reasoning behind any of it other than the fact that your gut makes you a little scared.

I hate this about mafia - players regularly think they're fucking godsends because they can call every player in the game town and then they think their reads are >rand. Nope, you're just fucking bad at numbers. If you don't have any real solid reason for calling this wrong, shut the fuck up and go away.

[Enter]

btw if i was still fully invested in this game and playing off of my reads i'd be driving a lynch on liger js

I bet you couldn't even do that competently.

Really.

Name one active stance you've taken this game that you've followed through even somewhat competently on. Please.

[Enter]

It's real fucking easy to sit back and mock and be a cynic. Anyone can say "you're doing it wrong." You're no better than the people you mock unless you can do it right.

[Enter]

it's not a policy lynch

i find it really disillusioning how you're getting mad at him for making a scum motivated play as opposed to getting worried that it makes him scum

You don't think he's town due to end of day w/ mcqueen yesterday?

Enter why you mad?

Because I expected more from you. :/

[Enter]

I'm kinda scared, RC. My scumread on Liger was for similar reasons that I was scumreading mcqueen, and I see reason he could easily be town.

[Enter]

Expect less

Be more.

[Enter]

I'm kinda scared, RC. My scumread on Liger was for similar reasons that I was scumreading mcqueen, and I see reason he could easily be town.

This is the kind of play I was talking about starting to just push for policy lynches in MD, though.

[Enter]

Expect less

Be more.

Be true to yourself. Never let the haters hate get to you.

How is this relevant?

[Enter]

Or flip clears FF if scum

[Enter]

UNVOTE:

ANK!

[Enter]

Come talk to me I need your help really bad.

[Enter]

Is it weird if I'm constantly wishing my reads to be proven wrong?

What reads?

Also, pretend you're Ank.

I need you to help me work through something, ok?

[Enter]

Don't replace out, RC.

Just ignore him if you have too.
TBH if he keeps this up I'm willing to policy lynch him, too.

[Enter]

He's shown no evidence of capacity for critical thought whatsoever and his play is intentionally antagonistic.

[Enter]

VOTE: Vedith

Talk me through it, please.

Just PoE?
Or the fact that Vedith is absent?

[Enter]

VOTE: Vedith

Talk me through it, please.

Just PoE?
Or the fact that Vedith is absent?

Both

Noted.

[Enter]

Are you ignoring Liger/RC or do you have thoughts on this?

[Enter]

I'm both ignoring and townreading them

Can you go over reasons you town read them?

[Enter]

I'm both ignoring and townreading them

Can you go over reasons you town read them?

Their fight

W/ RC? Or me?

And what comes off as townie about it to you?

[Enter]

It's really stupid that no players are dying.

Not a helpful sentiment.

[Enter]

with RC.

I mean, they must've had balls or something.

They haven't shown a pattern of making anything but bad decisions in the past, why would here be any different, or indicative of being town?

[Enter]

@Ankamius:

Is Liger's process here intentional mud or braindead opposition?

[Enter]

I can't deal with complexer things rn.

Aye.

[Enter]

I am scary

UNVOTE:

I want former to get a foothold before EoD

Okay boss
VOTE: mcqueeb

I don’t think ur doused

These three make me think he might be town

[Enter]

gimme a min enter

Ok.

[Enter]

I think I am getting doused it tonight :O

This made me think maybe scum? I guess I could see it going both ways.

Also if scum follow Jinge's plan it actually doesn't even matter who is and isn't doused.

[Enter]

i have literally no idea how anyone in this game is generating their reads

pretty much any time someone says i read x for y reason i want to scumread the absurdity of the reads but i'd be voting everyone

you think my reasoning for TRing Liger is absurd?

Wait
You think all my reads are absurd?

[Enter]

Talk to me RC
cuz if I've been doing wrong help me through what I'm screwing up

pretty much yeah. do you want me to go through each of them individually?

yes

[Enter]

What reads?

Well just about all of my non-solid reads that I'm townreading time to time.
It's kinda hard for me to reanalyze things without being wrong on something.

Understood.

Thoughts on Liger/FF at the moment?

[Enter]

ok

can you gather your reads into one place so i can talk about them without spending time going through your iso

Yeah

Ank/RC/Rei 95% town
Creature at 90
Jingle/xtoxm at 85
Dann at 80

DDL/FF isn't a scum team
Dann/FF is likely not a scum team

Liger is probably town

DDL is possibly scum
Max is possibly scum
FF is possibly scum
Vedith is possibly scum

[Enter]

I think I have some other stuff based on who can and can't be partners but I can't find it rn

[Enter]

The tone he is using is one I can't read Enter :/

What about his actions?
Do you see scum making the moves he makes?

What do you think about what I'm townreading him off of?

[Enter]

ok

can you gather your reads into one place so i can talk about them without spending time going through your iso

Yeah

Ank/RC/Rei 95% town
Creature at 90
Jingle/xtoxm at 85
Dann at 80

DDL/FF isn't a scum team
Dann/FF is likely not a scum team

Liger is probably town

DDL is possibly scum
Max is possibly scum
FF is possibly scum
Vedith is possibly scum

Ank is town because keeping up the effort she has and the confidence she has is difficult for her as scum
Also she has high standards for herself so her failure after pushing Buj against you and myself means that her response to Buj flipping town makes sense

Rei is likely town because I can follow her thought process mostly, she maintains a relatively conversational tone that's difficult as scum, the only reason I fear she might be scum is too many town reads but I can understand that this game

RC is an entirely different beast

Creature is likely town due to his conversational tone and his ability to continue to scumhunt and try even when the game feels mostly won

xtoxm is likely town due to the fact that everyone else grapes voted for is town and his interaction w/ grapes doesn't feel like SvS

Jingle is likely town because he does try enough to keep us on a certain track, he doesn't seem to be trying to get town cred, he reads differently from 8-ball

Dann is likely town because to maintain the effort he has this game and the tone would be difficult as scum

Liger is likely town because getting off the mcqueen wagon yesterday at tend of day only to jump back on it removes really any sense of town cred he might have gotten from being off the wagon and opposing it, althought I guess he could have gone back on for fear that someone else would be lynched instead

Vedith might be scum because he's absent when he's needed, he often comes in, shares enough to get mildly town read and disappears

DDL is possibly scum because he can't maintain a solid thought process throughout the game and the only reason people seem to be TRing him is due to recent AtE

FF is possibly scum because I was never particularly convinced on Alisae - ey only once really made any attempt at a push and then it was never much at all, some of the ways he says and does things makes me uncomfortable but over all that slot has done relatively townie things. Unlikely to be scum w/ DDL or Dannflor due to interactions

Max is possibly scum because I haven't really seen enough investment to make me thing he's solid town

[Enter]

VOTE: formerfish

Stop.

[Enter]

I think liger was a lot more readable towards the beginning of his iso but I'm sure as hell not going to go back and look

Alright. So the fact that he's not intent on engaging, etc?

[Enter]

VOTE: formerfish

Stop.

enter I lack the energy to care rnow
Sorry

Vote or, then.

[Enter]

even when the game feels mostly won

I meant under control
I don't know why I said won
Whatever

[Enter]

I don't think he was really engagey in anime upick either iirc, I'm not sure that's scum indicative for him

Ok.

So then we lynch or, then?

[Enter]

VOTE: formerfish

Stop.

enter I lack the energy to care rnow
Sorry

Vote or, then.

Why

Why not

[Enter]

FF at L-2

[Enter]

VOTE: formerfish

Stop.

enter I lack the energy to care rnow
Sorry

Vote or, then.

Why

Why not

An FF lynch has me feeling marginally less queasy

Fascinating.

Who do you think is FF partner?

[Enter]

no clue

Alright
So we're town reading Jingle
DDL isn't his partner
You're town
Vedith isn't his partner

I need a list of possibilities

[Enter]

idfk

this game is moving faster than my care level at this point

Alright.
Let's just talk.

Who would suck to lose the game to right now?

[Enter]

I'm just posting non-game related things.

Stop.

[Enter]

I'm just posting non-game related things.

Stop.

How else do you expect players to be engaged into the game?

By reading the game and engaging w/ the player base, specific players in particular if people aren't interested in reading?

How is posting not game related information in the thread being engaged in the game in any way?

[Enter]

no clue

Alright
So we're town reading Jingle
DDL isn't his partner
You're town
Vedith isn't his partner

I need a list of possibilities

I mean gun to head jingle

Jingle is the only possibility you can think of?

[Enter]

idfk

this game is moving faster than my care level at this point

Alright.
Let's just talk.

Who would suck to lose the game to right now?

tbh

my townreads, I'd pretty much universally be okay losing to :/
Liger I'd just feel insulted by if I lost to him
everyone else mostly just depends on partner I think, I'd feel bad losing to like... or/max or something in that ballpark

What are your townreads?

[Enter]

either of them have earned the win if they are

I think he's implying he is?
lol

[Enter]

lol

[Enter]

\o/

Did you see my reasons?

[Enter]

I won't bother with Rei because RC being endgamed by his wife would be golden.

I'm only sad I might not be here for it.

[Enter]

Ok.

VOTE: Liger

He's scum if he isn't town for the reasons I stated.

[Enter]

This is the only online forums that fits to me. My old forums won't let me multipost the way I do.

Multipost Liger votes.

[Enter]

He's scum if he isn't town

*claps*

Someone doesn't believe in 3p

[Enter]

Every time I lynch a self voter my power increases.

[Enter]

okay abort wagon

UNVOTE: Liger

Bad.
He's only at L-1 cuz he's voting himself.

[Enter]

okay abort wagon

UNVOTE: Liger

What happened to not enough people dying?

[Enter]

okay abort wagon

UNVOTE: Liger

What happened to not enough people dying?

I mean nightkills. I don't want to lynch townies in vain.

Cool, lynch scum w/ me

[Enter]

No wait

I want A lynch, creature

I don't wanna lynch creature

What?
Grammar matters?

[Enter]

UNVOTE:

scaredy cat

[Enter]

Liger hasn't been lynched yet for some reason

[Enter]

You should hammer liger cuz it would be funny and you can laugh at all of us

[Enter]

I saw the two letters "FF" and my brain read it as "Or".

Can we stop with the shorting names that can be like "Fish" instead of "FF" all the shorting is fucking with communication.

You're the only one complaining about it and you're also the person who has spent the most time being an active pain in the rear of parts of the player base so I'm not sure why you think we should take this into account

[Enter]

I don't know why you are trying to start a fight with me. But here we are.

I'm not. You go out of your way to be detrimental and contrary. You refuse to try to work with town. How are you trying to deny this right now?

[Enter]

I don't know why you are trying to start a fight with me. But here we are.

I'm not. You go out of your way to be detrimental and contrary. You refuse to try to work with town. How are you trying to deny this right now?

You are. This post is proof that you are trying to start a fight.

No, I'm not.

You can't play like a moron with an agenda all game and then get mad when people call you out for it.

[Enter]

Alright walk me through why scum is on grapes and if we think scum is on grapes why we aren't lynching mp who doesn't believe scum is on grapes

[Enter]

No. It isn't.

[Enter]

But if we lynch liger we don't have to deal with him anymore

[Enter]

The game gets easy

[Enter]

Alright walk me through why scum is on grapes and if we think scum is on grapes why we aren't lynching mp who doesn't believe scum is on grapes

Why are you even asking me this when you scumread two of the people in grapes wagon?
Because I want this one. I want a flip that I do

not

townread for once so I can clear my head.

I'm asking because I don't want to deal with Liver anymore and I'm almost as convinced he's scum as I am FF is

[Enter]

Like I want FF dead, too, but more than that I want Liver not in the game.

[Enter]

But if we lynch liger we don't have to deal with him anymore

I have no problem dealing with him.

He hasn't tried to antagonize you or stood strongly against your lynches while refusing to explain why. He hasn't spent a large portion of the game trying to be snarky to you. He hasn't engaged with you really at all. He hasn't actively harassed you. He doesn't oppose almost everything you do without providing his own sense of direction or even real reason why. I believe FF could be scum. But he isn't actively opposed to any forward progress.

[Enter]

If you ask me why I think Liger is town, my answer is "I disagree with that his posts look forced."

Turns out when you play scum snark doesn't have to be forced. It's actually one of the easiest things to do as scum. That's one reason why people town read me in 2059 because I was snarky and could get away with playing like liver is now without having to force anything

[Enter]

I'm terrible as scum. I'm possibly the worst scum player in the history of the world but xtoxm thinks I'm legit good scum because in 2059 I played like liver. I was snarky a lot of the time and I white knighted everyone

[Enter]

I opposed lynches because I knew they were town so it was easy

[Enter]

Don't wanna lynch liger? But know that none of what he's posted needs to be forced for him to be scum

[Enter]

I read liger as town and I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm in his pocket

Do talk about why

[Enter]

@Enter I think you need to like talk to someone bud, and maybe take a solid break from this game my dude.

why do you say this

are you trying to say that what i'm saying is not true

[Enter]

I'm terrible as scum. I'm possibly the worst scum player in the history of the world but xtoxm thinks I'm legit good scum because in 2059 I played like liver. I was snarky a lot of the time and I white knighted everyone

1. You != Liger
2. Sure, he

could

be scum snarking. I simply don't think so.

1. so? what's ur point
2. why not?

[Enter]

@Enter I think you need to like talk to someone bud, and maybe take a solid break from this game my dude.

why do you say this

are you trying to say that what i'm saying is not true

I don't want to talk about it because this is not the place or time for it. I recommend a break, and that's all I am gonna say.

Nothing I'm saying is untrue.
You are not playing to a town wincon.
You're actively playing against a town wincon.
You refuse to engage or discuss or try to work in a positive direction.

I'm not sure why you think I need a break, but I'll thank you to keep that opinion to yourself.

[Enter]

I read liger as town and I'm pretty sure it's not because I'm in his pocket

Do talk about why

ok

You are too personally attached to your Prince read right now Xtoxm.

Like friendly advice: You could be right but the way you are approaching it will make everyone assume this is a vendetta thing. Which is the same thing I get from Prince on his read on you, no matter how much he claims it isn't, every post and justification he gives is utter bullshit that I can see through that he just wants you out of the game. The same goes for you but you are doing it in a more obvious way than he is. So you both need to chill and come back with some objectivity to it by cleansing all this from you for awhile.

D3

He is L-1 at this time

probably about to get lynched with the way momentum is going

here he engages xtoxm is a pro-town way to get him to reconsider his tunnel (am I using tunnel correctly this time) despite that likely working against his win condition as scum

How is this working against his win condition as scum?
How is this not him trying to look town while he does nothing that everyone else in the game has already done?

[Enter]

That's what I'm talking about, actually, he does a lot of things that AREN'T really pushing a town wincon forward, but they look like he's trying to be agreeable when it's obvious he's not.

[Enter]

1. so? what's ur point

Something that might be easy for you might be hard for him. Who knows? Assuming self playstyle to be equal to others is not a good method in general anyway.

2. why not?

Because I think so? Like, this part is literally "disagree if you must, but I think this."

The change in personality doesn't make snark difficult to fake. If you can snark as town, why would it be difficult to snark as scum? O_O

Alright. But I can't work with "I just think so."

[Enter]

Your first point makes no sense.

[Enter]

The change in personality doesn't make snark difficult to fake. If you can snark as town, why would it be difficult to snark as scum? O_O

For an example, one can easily hyperpost naturally as town and yet can not do that as scum without looking forced.

Hyperposting is different, and to an extent I disagree with that point anyways.

Did anyone else just notice what Formerfish did? Cause that looks like fanning the flames while ignoring discussing reads.

No, it doesn't.

[Enter]

But I can't work with "I just think so."

That was intended.

I don't want to get into argument with my townread. It builds needless frustration for me.

Noted.
I disagree with you.

[Enter]

I mean this is enough to lynch him really.

VOTE: Formerfish

This wagon is scummy as fuck. This guy is scummy as fuck for this vote. Dann can get it as well with a side of scattered, topped and chunked hash browns.

Why?

Did anyone else just notice what Formerfish did? Cause that looks like fanning the flames while ignoring discussing reads.

It does

It doesn't

Fish is clearly trying to pocket you honestly

Liger is clearly trying to frustrate me
What is your point?

[Enter]

Enter

I'm gonna take a stand here and be a dick

I agree with Rei

Liger is town.

I do think he has played generally pro town and that it's just hard for you to see because it is surrounded by snark and yes needless antagonizing of you—yes that isn't very "pro town" but enter your personality clashes very easily with others at times, so I don't consider the fact you guys always pick fights with each other AI

I also... just really really feel it in my gut

And I want you to trust me

What is pro town.

Please walk me through "pro town" play.

Engaging a single player on a topic that has barely any affect on game state for town cred is not pro town play.

You're not being a dick, you're just wrong.

FF doesnt survive from pocketing me here. It doesn't matter, I just come after him tomorrow if Liger flips town for some reason.

[Enter]

Ok, then let's go back to the original discussion.
Can you put aside your hate and vote FF for me? :3

Sure.
after we lynch liger

[Enter]

Actually, I take that back.

[Enter]

I'll vote FF w/ you, but we need to have a discussion first.

[Enter]

Or rather, I might be willing to vote FF w/ you.

[Enter]

Okay but why didn't you respond to it first?

How is this a case?

[Enter]

What was the first game you played in?

[Enter]

What game do you want to play in?

[Enter]

Liger and FF I need a lynch pool of at least 2 from both of you

[Enter]

What was the first game you played in?

It was in MU. It was a terrible game.

Alright.

I think FF could be scum.
I'll vote him but only if you sell me both of your laughing rights.

[Enter]

so rei I'll sell you my vote on FF but you're not allowed to laugh at me anymore regardless of his flip
and I reserve the right to wait until Liger gives me their lynchpool of at least 2

[Enter]

Liger and FF I need a lynch pool of at least 2 from both of you

FF, what would be your personal ideal lynch order rnow

Right now based off what I have gathered:

Dann > Or > Creature.

alright, thanks

[Enter]

I could link you the game but I and RadiantCowbells do not want to remember that game again.

you wouldn't have toooooooooo

but i trust you

What was the first game you played in?

It was in MU. It was a terrible game.

Alright.

I think FF could be scum.
I'll vote him but only if you sell me both of your laughing rights.

You

monster

You are asking for my only reason to stay in this game that I achieved with my own blood and tears.

well maybe i don't wanna be laughed at did u think of that

[Enter]

i don't think ff flip scum

then unvote

but uh

if i'm wrong i agree to give reiuji at least 27 laughing rights

ok
i'll give her 16 laughing rights if liger flips town

[Enter]

liger answer enter's question plz

wait he has to go make something up real quick

[Enter]

liger answer enter's question plz

I am actually unsure of who is scum outside of Fish.

I am kind of just...like sort of weakly townreading everyone else.
The weakest person I guess would have to be Xtoxm after fish.


If fish is town this game might literally break me.

funny

i need at least 2

[Enter]

what
is the most difficult thing to do as scum

please someone tell me
it's not a trick question

[Enter]

i'm not going against reiuji

ok
fair enough

[Enter]

what
is the most difficult thing to do as scum

please someone tell me
it's not a trick question

Post.

close
that's the second most difficult thing

[Enter]

it's make a believable push