Open 756: Hope Plus One (Day 5)

[Shoshin]

Creature, why aren't you voting Egix yet?

You're way too impatient.

We don't have time for patience. Your patience yesterday is why we couldn't lynch Egix yesterday, and why I almost got mislynched by a matter of hours.

[Shoshin]

Creature, I'd appreciate if you could convince Pops that I'm town. He has the same reads as me, yet thinks I'm scum because of ???.

[Shoshin]

Who tf lynches Dr Worm?

Shosin scum. He was the other option.

I wanted to lynch Egix. How many times must I say this?

[Shoshin]

Creature, before you leave fucking vote Egix.

[Shoshin]

If you lurk this day out without voting I'm blacklisting you.

[Shoshin]

I'm not as confident on town Creature as I am on Icon/Eyes but this:

Creature's town because the way he played around Baezu on D1 strongly suggests he's town (calling him scum after the point where scum would have known Baezu was doctor), & Creature's self-vote almost never comes from scum him in this context whereas I've seen him do it as town before. Also, he's defending me at a time when he had no reason to, especially since he had been calling me "underwhelming" earlier in the game and easily could have jumped on my wagon. Lack of opportunism is strongly town indicative for Creature.

Egix, why vote Creature over Titus?

I figured that there would be a lot of dead air at SoD due to the long wait, so I wanted to try and help get things moving again by putting a vote down on someone who a) I scumread, and b) had shown that they were active by posting so they'd be around to react to it.

And his reaction was pretty meh to say the least...

You said Titus was your top scumread yesterday. Why aren't you pushing that today?

[Shoshin]

If Creature were scum, it's very likely he kills me.

[Shoshin]

Egix, what do you make of the fact that Pops agrees with all my reads yet jumps on my wagon? Seems like a pretty opportunistic voting decision. Do you agree?

[Shoshin]

I have very good read accuracy & I'm deceptively difficult to mislynch.

[Shoshin]

Creature knows this, whereas other players in the game don't since they don't know me.

[Shoshin]

Because I'm having trouble deciding who's more likely scum between you and her.

This doesn't answer my question. Titus was you top scumread. Now it's not? What changed?

[Shoshin]

Why is it contradictory for me to vote you and agree with your reads if I believe all the game's correct reads are in your role pm?
You've been high pressure all game, I don't have to deep dive your games to believe you're smart enough to know to bus when likely to get lynched. It's no reason not to scumread you.

You're describing most of my town games. Me under high pressure while voting scum.

The point is that when someone agrees with your reads, it's usually a sign that the person in question is town. It means you're reading the game from a similar perspective.

[Shoshin]

I'm going to be lynched today if you don't convince the townie voting me that I'm town.

[Shoshin]

I don't know what you're asking.

[Shoshin]

There's at least one townie among Pops/Emperor/Titus. I need you to convince that player that I'm town, Creature. I can't do it because they don't trust me at all & none of what I'm saying will reach them.

[Shoshin]

Unless something changes I am getting lynched, Creature.

Egix is going to vote me as a matter of self-preservation. Clemency might randomly vote me because he's a wildcard, plus he might be scum. Icon scumread me before deciding to reevaluate so there's always that threat as well.

[Shoshin]

That's plausible.

[Shoshin]

Egix/Titus is about 99%. It's unclear who the last is.

[Shoshin]

I do.

What happens if scum Egix gets lynched today?

The game becomes almost impossibly difficult for scum to win.

[Shoshin]

We're at L-2 on Egix.

If we get Icon's vote & Clem's vote, we can make this happen.

[Shoshin]

Creature, if you can convince Icon/Clem that I'm town, then maybe we have a chance as well.

[Shoshin]

My biggest fear is that Clem's scum. If he is, I'm already dead.

[Shoshin]

That's why I'd like you to convince the townie voting me that I'm town. This hedges against the possibility that Clem's scum.

[Shoshin]

I'm at L-2 as well, with Egix voting me I'll be put to L-1. I'm already dead.

[Shoshin]

Pops, why not vote Egix over me today?

[Shoshin]

Like, from your perspective, regardless of my alignment, Egix is always scum here. What am I missing?

[Shoshin]

I don't think it's correct play for Egix to bus you here though. We'd probably lynch him anyways.

This sounds like a reason for you vote Egix over me.

[Shoshin]

Why you hate me?

[Shoshin]

Pops, I'm unable to follow your thought process at all. Who are you townreading?

[Shoshin]

I'm fearful of lolhammers because it's happened to me before. I once got lynched 3 pages into D1.

[Shoshin]

I'm paranoid we lynch Egix, he flips scum, and you tank stock to end game off the cred.

I have a proposal, then: Lynch me at LYLO.

I'll accept my own lynching if we get to LYLO. My goal is to avoid getting there altogether.

[Shoshin]

I'm 99% certain that scum won't let me live to LYLO unless somehow Egix/Titus are town, in which case town has already lost this game.

[Shoshin]

You have the same reads as me. In precisely that order.

[Shoshin]

If you vote Egix, I add you to the list after Creature.

[Shoshin]

If you're town, it is.

[Shoshin]

Look, if you think both me & Egix are scum, at least I'm playing pro-town from your perspective whereas he isn't. That's enough reason to vote him over me today.

[Shoshin]

Can you clarify again why you scumread me, Pops? Buki already said that his reasons for scumreading me were incorrect, as they were based in faulty meta.

[Shoshin]

I'd like to remind everyone that I was almost lynched on D2. I was at L-1 with two hours until deadline, with Emperor expressing intent to hammer while waiting for my claim. The reason I survived is because townies switched their votes from me to Worm. Townies, not scum. GIF, and then Buki.

[Shoshin]

Pops, I was low effort in all my games at that time. It's not a scum tell, it's a busy tell.

[Shoshin]

I'm a big believer that to some extent future good behavior can't obviate past bad behavior in mafia. And much of your early posting was really bad.

The ability to reevaluate reads is one of the most important skills a townie can have in this game. Especially when there's a very good explanation for the low effort in the beginning of the game.

You know as an objective fact that I was posting this way in all my games at the time, and even got mislynched in another game at the same time for inactivity. So you know that what's generally "bad behavior" wasn't in this case, it was simply a sign that I was too busy to give the game my normal level of engagement.

[Shoshin]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=79139 -- I'm town Jungle Medicine in this game. You can see how active I was earlier in the game & then the massive drop off around the same time as this game started. I ended up being mislynched for inactivity.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79367 -- I was scum Papyrus. I was very active in this game until around the time this game started. There was a massive drop in activity around that time.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=79402 -- I was scum. This game started around the same time as this game. I was fairly inactive & eventually got replaced because I couldn't keep up.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79367 -- I was scum Papyrus. I was very active in this game until around the time this game started. There was a drop in activity around that time. This game is notable because my inactivity continued much after the point where I became active in this game. The fact I continued to be inactive there but became active here should be very telling on alignments.

There's other ongoing games but I can't talk about those. You'd have to do the research yourself. For all these games, pay attention to time stamps. There's periods of activity in all my games, just like this one, but in the key points where I was inactive in this game, I was also inactive in those.

Also, remember that Buki did the research & he reevaluated his read on me. He expressly stated that his meta analysis was wrong based on new evidence from looking deeper. I can also point you to many other games where I've had periods of inactivity as long as D1 on this game.

[Shoshin]

Buki reevaluating my meta:

I've been searching some Shoshin games and I retract my meta on her.

Definitely not completely retracting, but I thought I had seen more of her games than I actually have? I have this habit of skimming through ongoing games and I had seen Shoshin quite a lot, however she rolls town quite a lot? although I didn't look game by game (I search for topics she posted in and try to see if there she posted in a "scum PT" in that game, if not I assume that she was town there), I've only found a very old scum game of hers now that I'm diligently reading them.

I'm not saying she has been towny in a meta way here though. Just that I thought I knew more about her than I actually do. Also I'm not particularly counting the Starcraft game as a scum game since you were third party.

Actually, I'm taking most of Shoshin meta to the trash can.

Shoshin meta right now can change drastically I would say. It's unstable grounds and not reliable. She seems to not be confident with her own methods.

I'll review her ISO here but maybe the optimal play is to try something else today, and cop checks Shoshin tonight? Brass slot is probably be easier to engage with so I'm not as worried as I was before with RC. (I don't really know how to read him that accurately though).

[Shoshin]

I made the JM alt to experiment with a very different playstyle without the expectations that would be placed on me otherwise. Comparing that meta with my normal play isn't what I want you to do. The only thing I'm asking is that you realize that activity level is a busy tell, not a scum tell.

[Shoshin]

Lying about your mafia experience as town is gross.

I also don't think I lied to anyone about mafia experience? I was trying to remove meta expectations because I was experimenting with a different approach. But I never pretended not to have previous knowledge about the game.

[Shoshin]

For other examples of inactivity from me, check out my games on Suka. That's another alt where I was significantly more inactive than my play here.

[Shoshin]

The nice thing about Suka is nobody gave me shit about being inactive because I was an unknown, whereas I'm inactive on this account for just a few days & then I'm under high pressure the rest of the game no matter what I do.

Is it really any wonder why I want to play an alt?

[Shoshin]

I don't wanna lynch shoshin but I don't see a spectacular case on egix either

I can make the case if you need one.

[Shoshin]

id prefer egix lynch over shoshin

This is extremely towny from Clemency.

[Shoshin]

There's a slight chance it's T v T but how else do we explain the three day failure rate or scum letting lynchbait get lynched over Shosin if Shosin is town?

Let's clarify a few things.

1. There's been two mislynches, not three.

2. RC led a mislynch on D1, not me. I had nothing to do with that failure.

3. I strongly pushed for a lynch on scum Egix yesterday.

4. Townies chose to lynch Worm over me. Remember, I was at L-1 with Emperor declaring intent to hammer. The only reason I survived is because GIF (confirmed town) & Fumuki (obvtown) switched voted to Worm. Scum didn't let Worm get lynched over me, townies forced that to happen.

The biggest issue I have with Titus is that she seems to assume scum control everything that happens when that isn't true. Towns often mislynch with no influence from scum, or against the lynch that scum are pushing, and that's what happened in this game.

[Shoshin]

Icon, I'd like your help to sort out Titus.

According to Titus, there's two possible explanations for the mislynch on Worm: (1) I'm scum who couldn't be lynched because I had the help of two teammates, or (2) I'm town & scum were unsuccessful in their attempts to lynch me over Worm.

The former means that scum have been actively manipulating town into mislynching, whereas the latter means that town acted contrary to scum's manipulation but still against town's interests. Both possibilities happen all the time. There's games where scum control everything, and there's games where town lose the game for themselves with no active effort on scum's part.

Titus defaults to explanation (1). But she never explains why.

I've pointed out a few times why this narrative directly conflicts with the evidence. In short, I survived yesterday because GIF & you (townies) switched votes from me to Worm before I could be hammered by Emperor with only a couple hours left until deadline. If I'm receiving protection, it's from townies, not scum.

Why isn't this piece of evidence changing how Titus views the game? Why ignore this evidence to keep pushing the narrative in (1)? This is what I don't understand. Am I missing something about Titus?

[Shoshin]

Pops, I'd like to know your thoughts on my alignment in this game, as well as the alignment of Egix & Titus. I don't care for your self-righteous comments about how I approach games on alt accounts.

[Shoshin]

Pops, you're welcome to weigh in on my concerns in 2648.

[Shoshin]

I think we have the votes to lynch Egix -- me, Eyes, Creature, Icon, & Clem -- so that's nice. I'm feeling hopeful about this game, which isn't something I've felt in a long time.

[Shoshin]

Egix is scum.

[Shoshin]

Those are fake results, you can tell from his reads.

[Shoshin]

Why would Egix check Emperor last night? C'mon, don't fall for this.

Real cop, don't out yourself.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin you said I could burden of proficiency you on Egix can I cash that in?

Yes, Egix just scum claimed with those results.

Scum are obviously going to fake claim cop here before going down.

[Shoshin]

Does anyone in this game actually think scum aren't going to claim cop before going down?

[Shoshin]

Why have you been scumreading me?

No offence intended, but have you been reading my posts? I thought I'd been explaining myself quite well but if not, I apologise.

All right then, if I'm wrong on you and you're actually town, then now's your chance to show it.

- Can you remember why you said "I'd feel tempted to self-vote in that case, RC." in post#36? Because I don't think that's a very towny attitude to have.

- You seem to ask the question "if you assume I'm town, who are the scum?" or some variation of it, often. What do you intend to achieve by asking it?

- P#798 - "I'm also sort of lazy this game because I have the backup of RC & NSG, so I feel less urgency about sorting alignments." Why those two players specifically?

- P#978 - "You're scum until you stop scumreading me." Can you remember why you said that?

- P#986 - "I don't have a solid read on either of RC or NSG." Then why were you using them as backup?

This is from looking through the first ~half of your ISO. That should be enough for the time being.

What are your reads, Egix?

{NSG, Freezer}
{Cowbells, Fumuki}
{Eyes, Wormy}

Flippy - If I be honest I don't really have a read on him atm

{Creature}
{Titus slot, Shosh}

Why isn't Radiant his top townread here?

[Shoshin]

lol what a bad fake cop claim. He should have claimed innocent on NSG's slot.

[Shoshin]

Scum were always going to claim cop here. Always.

[Shoshin]

Do you really need me to cite the countless examples of scum doing this? And towns unnecessarily outing their cop?

[Shoshin]

Egix botched the claim because it makes no sense with his behaviors & reads.

[Shoshin]

Why didn't he check me or Titus last night? Why wasn't RC his top townread on D2? Why didn't he come into this day phase at least hinting about an innocent result on Emperor? C'mon, this claim is bullshit.

[Shoshin]

I've actually been waiting for Egix to fake claim cop because I knew he would & I knew he couldn't be cop based on his behaviors/reads.

[Shoshin]

Creature, do not fall for this please. I beg you.

This is my last game on mafiascum in a long time. Please do me this favor of not falling for this today.

[Shoshin]

I guess worst-case scenario the real cop can out. But ideally they shouldn't.

[Shoshin]

Why have you been scumreading me?

No offence intended, but have you been reading my posts? I thought I'd been explaining myself quite well but if not, I apologise.

All right then, if I'm wrong on you and you're actually town, then now's your chance to show it.

- Can you remember why you said "I'd feel tempted to self-vote in that case, RC." in post#36? Because I don't think that's a very towny attitude to have.

- You seem to ask the question "if you assume I'm town, who are the scum?" or some variation of it, often. What do you intend to achieve by asking it?

- P#798 - "I'm also sort of lazy this game because I have the backup of RC & NSG, so I feel less urgency about sorting alignments." Why those two players specifically?

- P#978 - "You're scum until you stop scumreading me." Can you remember why you said that?

- P#986 - "I don't have a solid read on either of RC or NSG." Then why were you using them as backup?

This is from looking through the first ~half of your ISO. That should be enough for the time being.

What are your reads, Egix?

{NSG, Freezer}
{Cowbells, Fumuki}
{Eyes, Wormy}

Flippy - If I be honest I don't really have a read on him atm

{Creature}
{Titus slot, Shosh}

Cop with an innocent on RC doesn't make this list of reads ever.

[Shoshin]

Alright, fine.

I claim cop with a guilty on Egix & Titus.

Please lynch them.

[Shoshin]

We can lynch Titus today if people are this scared of lynching cop claims.

Scum will kill me tonight.

Then you lynch Egix tomorrow.

[Shoshin]

Actually, Titus flipping scum should confirm me as town.

[Shoshin]

Sure, can we get the votes for Titus?

[Shoshin]

Just in case you think I am fake claiming: in the numerous times I've fake claimed cop, my fake results have always been correct.

[Shoshin]

I already did.

He says he got an innocent result on RC on N1 but lists RC as a second tier of townread (i.e. less towny than NSG/GIF).

He says he checked Emperor on N2 even though his top scumreads were me & Titus.

These are both implausible reads/behaviors for a cop.

[Shoshin]

Egix is fake claiming, Eyes.

[Shoshin]

Scum always fake claim cop before going down in this setup. Always.

[Shoshin]

I've been expecting it all game, which is why I've been very sure to make everyone list their reads throughout the game.

[Shoshin]

I'll also admit that I thought GIF was the cop yesterday which is part of why I townread him so strongly. The way he talked about Eyes suggested this very strongly. It turns out he was probably just trying to give cover to real cop, which was pretty nice on his end in retrospect. But the way Egix has given reads just isn't how a cop ever plays.

[Shoshin]

Lol @ Egix.

[Shoshin]

I think Egix is the most obvious scum between the two. But both are scum.

[Shoshin]

Creature, how can you still think Egix is possibly town? Please stretch your mind, it's not functioning well at the moment.

[Shoshin]

We can lynch Titus today.

[Shoshin]

I guess scum Titus is more dangerous than scum Egix in many ways. Egix can't even fake claim cop properly.

Can't wait for Titus to fake claim doctor by the way.

[Shoshin]

Creature was once in a game where I fake claimed cop as town so he knows to trust me.

[Shoshin]

I already have a guilty on you, Titus.

[Shoshin]

I prefer lynching Egix over Titus, mostly because I want to see how Titus explains her behavior after Egix flips scum. Makes the game a bit more interesting.

[Shoshin]

You are a confirmed liar.

I prefer "delusional." That's what people usually call me.

[Shoshin]

It's funny that Titus actually defends Egix's awful fake claim.

[Shoshin]

I prefer Egix because his fake claim is the most blatant scum claim I've ever seen.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Titus

[Shoshin]

I really really wanted to see how Titus would try to explain the scum Egix flip but I guess we won't be seeing that in this game.

[Shoshin]

Clem, please vote between Egix or Titus.

Eyes is not getting lynched today so your vote isn't helping there.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Egix

[Shoshin]

Eyes, Creature, & Icon -- we need to be strategic with our votes. Clem won't vote for Titus, so unless we can convince Pops to vote Titus, we need to lynch Egix.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: egix
fuck it

Thank you.

[Shoshin]

Yes, I lied. Get over it.

[Shoshin]

Pops, do you think Egix is town?

[Shoshin]

{NSG, Freezer}
{

Cowbells

, Fumuki}
{Eyes, Wormy}

Flippy - If I be honest I don't really have a read on him atm

{Creature}
{Titus slot, Shosh}

That IS pretty odd if you ask me. Why put a mod-confirmed slot as a second tier TR?

Why doesn't Pops care about this?

[Shoshin]

Pops, please unvote me while we discuss.

[Shoshin]

I've fake claimed cop as town in many games, always to positive effect.

[Shoshin]

I hope Eyes hasn't pocketed me. I'm going to feel really dumb if that's what's happening.

[Shoshin]

Super unlikely. If it's the case, you deserve the win for completely outplaying me.

[Shoshin]

We already have proof that Egix is scum, Eyes. That's why we lynch him today.

Then we watch Titus squirm as she tries to explain her behavior today.

[Shoshin]

"Lynch all liars" isn't a thing.

[Shoshin]

Hey Pops, lynching Egix leads to my death via scum night kill. Isn't that more efficient than lynching me?

[Shoshin]

Now that Pops has doubled down on voting me, let's see what Emperor does. This is Emperor's last chance to prove himself town by voting Egix.

[Shoshin]

Emperor!

Please tell me you agree with my analysis that Egix's claim is fake. This is your chance to prove yourself town.

[Shoshin]

Why would Titus nightkill you

Because I'm the cop with a guilty on her.

[Shoshin]

Then help me lynch my partners please.

[Shoshin]

I don't get why you're so opposed to lynching Egix.

[Shoshin]

Emperor, before you say or do anything, please read my recent posts explaining why Egix is fake claiming cop in order to out the real cop.

[Shoshin]

Emperor gaining town points.

Please unvote me, Emperor. I don't want to get lolhammered.

[Shoshin]

Yes, please unvote. Pops refuses to.

[Shoshin]

Thank you.

[Shoshin]

Do you agree with me that scum almost always fake claim cop in this setup when they're getting lynched in order to out the cop?

[Shoshin]

We don't need a counter claim to know that Egix is scum.

[Shoshin]

@ whoever the cop is -- DO NOT CLAIM.

[Shoshin]

I have Iconeum above RC on my townlist

Quote the post.

[Shoshin]

I just wanted to call Pops out for lying. Since he made a big deal about it earlier.

[Shoshin]

Please vote Egix. Let's not over complicate this.

[Shoshin]

I hate this game & team.

I'm the cop, Icon.

[Shoshin]

It would have been nice if someone on my team gave cover for me but instead you want to mass claim? What a joke.

[Shoshin]

Stop this mass claim nonsense and lynch Egix already.

[Shoshin]

This game was a guaranteed win if you all had just lynched Egix without letting scum figure out that I'm the cop.

[Shoshin]

Eyes is town.

Scum Eyes never kills GIF.

[Shoshin]

With no cc, I have to assume Egix is actually the cop and treat his results as accurate.

This mentality is toxic. You don't have to do this. You choose to do this. Be clear that you're making the suboptimal choice here because you're ignoring the evidence that he's fake claiming.

[Shoshin]

Creature believes Egix's claim?

Fuck this game.

[Shoshin]

Town loses this game 100% with these players.

I'm done with this.

[Shoshin]

Good luck.

[Shoshin]

I've given you everything you need to know that Egix is fake claiming.

[Shoshin]

Did anyone in this game expect cop to claim vanilla? This is a serious question.

[Shoshin]

Did anyone in this game expect cop to claim vanilla? This is a serious question.

I mean to ask, did anyone expect scum to claim vanilla?

[Shoshin]

Basic principles on playing mafia well:

1. Scum are likely to claim cop in this setup when they're about to be lynched. So if obvscum claims cop, that doesn't mean they're suddenly town. A predictable scum behavior shouldn't suddenly change your read from scum to town.

2. A town cop doesn't list mod-confirmed town in a second tier of townreads. So when a cop claim does this, the claim is likely fake.

3. Town has the option of lynching obvscum without outing the cop. This leads to a much better outcome for the town than counter claiming a predictable scum fake claim, because the town cop has a chance to continue investigating another night or two.

Let's apply these principles to this game.

1. When Egix was put at L-1, about to be lynched, he claimed cop. This was a predictable scum behavior & therefore shouldn't change your read from scum to town. The cop claim is a null tell in this setup.

2. Egix says he investigated RC yet lists him in a second tier of townreads. This means the claim is likely fake. Or in other words, what you normally should read as a null tell is actually a scum tell in this game's specific circumstances.

3. Town had the option of lynching obvscum Egix without outing the cop. Instead, my teammates started unvoting Egix without any critical thought at all, in effect revealing the cop to the scum (because whoever unvoted clearly isn't the cop from scum's perspective).

It gets worse. We have a game where Icon wants to mass claim & get the doctor out in the open. I don't even know how to comprehend this sort of behavior or strategic choice because I don't see what possible benefit we're gaining from outing a doctor when we already have obvscum to lynch.

In case this wasn't clear, I am the cop. I have an innocent result on Eyes & a guilty result on Titus. You can do with that whatever you want. Icon's obvtown & shouldn't ever be lynched.

That's all I'm saying for the rest of the game.

My vote is on Egix. You can mislynch me today & blow your last mislynch on the real cop, or you can lynch obvscum Egix.

[Shoshin]

Emperor or Clem.

[Shoshin]

Probably Emperor.

[Shoshin]

Could even be scum Pops. Who fucking knows.

This game went from 100% win to 100% loss.

And I'm sure you all will blame me. I'll probably blacklist everyone in this game except Eyes & the scum.

[Shoshin]

You're lynching Egix/Titus for the next two days.

Then it's Pops, Emperor, Clem in LYLO.

[Shoshin]

Who wins that LYLO?

I'm going to predict scum wins it. Just from what I know about these players.

[Shoshin]

Not voting me doesn't excuse your play, Creature.

Your negligence towards keeping me alive is inexcusable. This was especially bad yesterday when RC was running me up for a lynch. I was put to L-1 with two hours until deadline, & instead of helping me build a counter wagon on Worm or Egix, you self-voted. Fucking awful play.

And today, I kept asking you to convince these players I'm town. You didn't do shit. I had to defend myself, which never works. Even though I'm obvtown. And then Egix claims cop & suddenly you doubt everything? WTF? How are you unable to comprehend that scum always claim cop in this setup & a cop claim is therefore entirely null?

You're blacklisted because I don't want to play with people who are this negligent about games, and who can't think even one step ahead of the scum.

[Shoshin]

Basic strategy:

If Titus claims doctor, lynch her. Do not out the actual doctor.

[Shoshin]

I needed one more night of investigations & this game was 100% solved. Just so you know.

[Shoshin]

Either way, I'm done with mafia for a long time. Should have just replaced out of this game, it wasn't fun.

[Shoshin]

It looks like Shoshin doesn't have very much of a twilight meta, usually surviving to endgame or getting NK'd or having the mod lock the thread promptly. I found a couple twilight posts where she was much less frustrated than here about getting mislynched as town.

Which game?

[Shoshin]

1.from what I remember you were the first one who was wanting to mass claim.& you never said let’s have everyone claim except for doctor. So you wanted the same thing.

Makes sense for a Cop who has turned MACHO to try to direct the kill on the Doctor so that they can get another result, fwiw.

This isn't exactly what I was thinking.

The idea behind advocating a mass claim is that I could lock the scum into vanilla claims so that when we lynch scum I wouldn't have to worry about outing myself. I always intended to claim vanilla during the mass claim.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Titus

Better than lynching me.

[Shoshin]

I can't wait to die tonight.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin if you are actually the cop you play this very very very poorly. Don't try to pull your 'everyone else is terrible' crap. You managed to convince a bunch of town players you can't be the cop lol.

YOU HAD A FUCKING GUILTY. You let town go round in circles, while we could be working with COP CONFIRMED information? We could be spending our time lynching ACTUAL scum and looking for his buddies, but you choose to sow chaos and confusion probably just because you don't wanna eat a bullet?

/rant over

I didn't have a guilty on Titus.

[Shoshin]

You're already blacklisted, Icon.

[Shoshin]

I have an innocent on Icon, Eyes, and Creature, though.

[Shoshin]

I'm hoping my results are so untrustworthy that scum leave me alive. They probably won't but I hope for it.

[Shoshin]

I'l play along with that for the moment.

[Shoshin]

I'm so good a cop that I can pull three results from two nights.

[Shoshin]

Titus is scum, Creature.

[Shoshin]

Just to be clear, Creature/Icon/Emperor/Pops/Godmid are blacklisted. Please don't sign up for my games or replace into them.

[Shoshin]

She'll get over it eventually.

No, I wont. You called to abandon a won game. I'm never playing with you again. Do not join my games.

[Shoshin]

Shosin, if you blacklist everyone who screws up because of experienced scum, soon you'll have no one to play with. It's your right but you are making a mistake. They are all awesome.

To be clear, this isn't just bad play. I've played with lots of bad players who aren't blacklisted. My blacklist is small -- these five players and Alisae -- and it's never because of quality of play. Bad players can be overcome. The ones I blacklisted cannot.

[Shoshin]

Lynch Godmid.

Go into LYLO with you, Icon, and Pops.

Play the game out.

[Shoshin]

Why do you assume I need mentoring?

[Shoshin]

With one exception, I've had full scumteam solves in every game I played this year by D2. I think I'm doing pretty well for myself, weird to have someone offer mentoring. The guilty on Titus was fake by the way, in case that wasn't obvious.

[Shoshin]

I was super psyched for this game and being able to get a win over a fuckton of big name townies but the game got ruined when no one actually wanted to play it.
And then it was ruined for me further when Shoshin's response to me pushing her was to make out of game attacks on my personality.

Shoshin I asked you not to do that after our last game. Do I deserve to be called a terrible person because I'm correctly strongarming a lynch on the cop?
It completely takes me out of the game and I'd have bailed there as town as well.

I realize I haven't been the nicest player but if you set limits I'll respect them. If this is how you're going to interact with my slot I'm going to avoid you in the future.

I didn't attack your out of game personality at any point. You were treating me like shit in the game & I called you out on this. If that's how you're going to treat me as scum, then you're going to get called out on it.

[Shoshin]

And you keep saying I didn't want to play the game when I clearly did & was efforting a lot.

[Shoshin]

1992 was literally me being treated like shit in the game & me calling you out for it. The words "stop being" limits the term "shitty human being" to the game, as in, you're being shitty right now, not always. It doesn't refer to your out of game personality. When have I ever insulted you outside a game? It's bizarre you'd take that outside the game.

You wouldn't respond to me, you kept telling other players not to talk to me at all, you kept diminishing my effort by saying I wasn't playing the game, gaslighting information, you said I "deserved it" at some point, etc. You don't need to insult someone directly to deny them basic humanity in how you treat them. And if that's how you play as scum, fine. That's called "shitty human being" scum play, because that's literally what it is. You're welcome to do it, and I won't take it personal because I know it's part of the game. But that doesn't mean I won't describe your behaviors for what they are in the game.

I never insulted your out of game personality.

[Shoshin]

I don't KNOW that you're scum until you flip, RC. Until you flip, I'm goign to ask you to "stop being shitty." I didn't say you were as a personaltiy shitty, or I wouldn't ask you to stop it.

[Shoshin]

You should consider the fact that, despite YOU having solved the game early on, you did a VERY poor job at convincing the rest of the town.
Also lying and shading as cop really fucked town over.

I got Egix/Titus lynched & set town up to win. But sure, I fucked town over. By faking a guilty on scum.