Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Hopkirk]

So what power roles do we think scum have? This looks like a stacked town right now.

Ninja- seems almost definite.
Backup ninja- seems likely to make up numbers/not be instant lose if Ninja is lynched d1.
Backup rolecop- seems likely to make up numbers/fit with the traitor.

Tracker? If they do then they 100% would have tracked Cliff on the night where Bob got confirmed. Some wording on the backup implies there could be two trackers. Though this seems townsided since lynching that tracker would

Vistor/Fruit vendor style roles- due to the watchy stuff.

Backup watcher/similar- to fill gaps in town claims.

Roleblocker- maybe, but doesn't gel with how they've handled Rick.

Strongman- does not appear necessary.
Any modifiers- none meaningfull enhance power.
Every other role- does not seem meaningful

[Hopkirk]

Sorry I don't use your method of referencing EE. Sorry real life has prevented me from posting but I am trying to catch up.

This is a terrible response. Looking through your entire posting and you don't mention Eevee by any other names either, except for that one reference you made that you quoted above which wasn't about Eevee at all.

Eevee is EEArmy which is Evolution Army sooo it was exactly about that slot.

This technically addresses the wording of my point that 'you have not mentioned Eevee at all'.
It clearly ignores the actual point 'you have not mentioned Eevee directly or meaningfully at all'.
If the best response you can make it 'I mentioned them offhand once while refereed to the wagon on them without following up with an opinion later' is the best you can do then you're not answering the question, you're trying to make it look like you've answered or that I'm unreasonable. It's weaselly rules lawyery avoiding the actual question.

[Hopkirk]

Mafia ninja
Mafia backup ninja
Mafia backup rolecop
Mafia ?
Traitor rolecop

We're looking at 4 based on recent games as far as I can tell. Correct me if that looks wrong, not all of the mods update their first page.

[Hopkirk]

I'm having a slight problem in that all of the likely scum basically just ignore and/or support you while you support/ignore them (Kop/Titus/Eevee/Garmr)

[Hopkirk]

Billy should be confirmed town.
Bob has a chance of flipping scum (not flips scum) if there's a scum tracker, but he'd clearly be a terrible lynch.

[Hopkirk]

I have a whole semi-ISO analysis on Titus yesterday iirc, and I must've commented on Kop and Garmr.

Don't see the titus one unless the entire thing is in a spoiler.
Garmr you mention a lot, but you townread.
Kop I think you only mention in terms of replacement.

[Hopkirk]

It is massclaim time imo

[Hopkirk]

That's amazing. I am forever in your debt, Texcat.

Titus' stance on profii is really odd. Like I get considering the possibility that he could be scum with a traitor in a neighbourhood, but thinking it's likely the case is dubious to say the least.

@Titus: Why'd you vote for Garmr late on yesterday? Earlier, you said he does crazy stuff as town and that you'd very surprised if he flipped scum.

There's this if that's what you mean.

[Hopkirk]

It clearly ignores the actual point 'you have not mentioned Eevee directly or meaningfully at all'.
If the best response you can make it 'I mentioned them offhand once while refereed to the wagon on them without following up with an opinion later' is the best you can do then you're not answering the question, you're trying to make it look like you've answered or that I'm unreasonable. It's weaselly rules lawyery avoiding the actual question.

Hardly. You're just arguing what I can do is never good enough. I don't deny that I didn't follow up. I am not sure that's the only interaction but in that interaction, I clearly take the position that EEArmy is town and act accordingly in thread.

There's absolutely no indication you townread Eevee post Alonzo lynch d2. How strong is this townread and why is it?

[Hopkirk]

Eevee flips scum, we're just waiting for his fakeclaim.

[Hopkirk]

Not as much as I thought but it's post 160 to 163 in my ISO.

@Hop: What's your read on me right now?

I have a reasonable reason to townread you based on

reasons

Interactions with likely scum + POE make me concerned. I'd lynch other people first (Eevee, Titus, Garmr).
If Garmr or you are scum then you're probably both scum. Garmr's interactions with you feel different to how he interacts (much more aggressively) with most of the thread.

Currently more likely scum than town on the aggregate.

What's your read on me right now?

[Hopkirk]

I'm thinking 4 of (Eevee, Titus, Garmr, Hectic, Kop) as scumteam.

[Hopkirk]

I'm trying to limit the amount I consider reasons.

What's your townread on me that you said was your second strongest yesterday and have held the entire game to date? I've been assuming this was also 'reasons'.

[Hopkirk]

Eevee flips scum, we're just waiting for his fakeclaim.

Didnt eevee already claim VT yesterday?

Looks like you're right here.

[Hopkirk]

Given how you reacted to the buddying from 'A' then other day (instant lockscum) I was getting surprised how strongly you townread me unless you assumed I was just memeing with my entire read on you.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like at this point it's fairly obvious to everyone that neither Garmr/Rick wants to be the first one to say whether or not Rick was on X player because

a.) their 'claim' could be proven false based on the result
or
b.) they want to catch the other out

We (Carca/Billy/Dave) should decide which of them claims their result first rather than it being whichever one gives in first.

[Hopkirk]

R being?

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: I'm kind of concerned that you never say anything bad about Kop/Titus/Eevee while they write the word 'Hectic' a combined total of once over all of their posts. Should I be worried?

You've spent the entire game assuring us that Hectic is town and now you're suddenly all concerned about him?

That's right. To be honest I stopped reading his posts properly around d2.

[Hopkirk]

Hectic can still be town. It's just every townflip drags him closer towards the POE pool.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like at this point it's fairly obvious to everyone that neither Garmr/Rick wants to be the first one to say whether or not Rick was on X player because

a.) their 'claim' could be proven false based on the result
or
b.) they want to catch the other out

We (Carca/Billy/Dave) should decide which of them claims their result first rather than it being whichever one gives in first.

My vote is for Garmr to full claim results up to last night. Then I want Rick to full claim everything including last night. Then Garmr can give last nights target.

I agree with this.

[Hopkirk]

R being?

R being the tell.

Oh, why didn't you use a codeword like 'eyebrows' that I'd have known meant the tell.

You did some d1, but didn't do that much of it when you started posting later on in the game.

[Hopkirk]

Especially when we've clearly been hard townreading each other the whole game.

[Hopkirk]

Did you still not get the sig working btw Hectic?

[Hopkirk]

The A is the name of someone we know shortened for anonymity.
I assume the R etc is the towntell I claim to have on Hectic. I haven't tested in that much online, but it works fairly consistently irl.
I don't understand why he used R either so that probably doesn't count as a code since only Hectic knew what it meant.

[Hopkirk]

I'm thinking 4 of (Eevee, Titus, Garmr, Hectic, Kop) as scumteam.

What're your reads on Rick and Texcat?

@Pine: Eevee, Titus, and yourself are what most seem to want to lynch today.

Town doctor and more likely town.

My current plan is still lynch Eevee/Titus/kopine and see what happens next.

-hop

[Hopkirk]

Have I just had bad luck recently or is there something up with mafiascum since I last played? Been in three games including this one since my last break and there's been issues with all of them.

1- Mod flakes, abandoned.
2- Selfhammer by town within a couple of irl days. Followed by the only modkill I've seen in ~50-60 games on here (legitimate reasons, but still meaningful to note).
3- This one: two town self hammers, one town faking two types of guility on another town pr.

I literally had a one person blacklist before this and now I'm starting to feel like I actually have to look at playerlists/mods before I join a game.

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk + Titus + Kop are my top scumreads for now. The only non-confirmed person that I'm not scumleaning/reading is Aaron and Garmr, though Aaron's claim of a Hectic-Hopkirk scumpair is slightly dodgy.

I bought Hopkirk's townread on me because apparently I have a "towntell" and he's had similar strong townreads on me in the past that have been accurate while he was town. I was aware it could just be him buddying me, but I was leaning towards him being town since the rest of his play seemed helpful/genuine. This sudden flip on me is really unnatural though, and I don't buy the reasons for it. Kop didn't mention most players in the game. I did mention Titus enough.

Also there's the factor that his scumread on me relies on all of his scumreads being correct, so it's a fairly weak link.

I'm townreading Garmr based on his frustration recently, though perhaps I'm too easily swayed. Could someone remind me of what Garmr lied about earlier in the game which Lilly caught him out for?

It doesn't rely on that but let's try a thought experiment. Assume I'm scum and this is what I think then which of the following am I planning.

1- bus and lynch (likely all) of my partners to get a lynch on you. People I've wanted lynched since d2.
2- lynch those people, have at least one flip town, then either try and lynch you anyway or change my mind on you?
3- try and lynch you first despite repetedly saying those three are my top three scumreads, more people scumread them than scumread you. I've actively said I want to lynch them first.

Aaron I townread too, can you explain why the meta read you had on him has changed? I don't recall you liking him before.

[Hopkirk]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80577&user_select[]=33131
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80540&start=925
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=80753&user_select[]=33131

I'm going to go with a nice townread on Aaron actually.

1950- scumgame finishing the same time this started. Aaron doesn't really give a read on anyone for 200 posts. Barely townreads anyone, scumreads aren't particulrly justified.
1949- Catch up is very similar to this game. Gives a lot of reads early on. Changes reads (two townreads for most of the game flip to scumreads)
1954- frequent reads

This game- catch up mirrors thought process in 1949. Mind changes frequently enough (excuse the formatting). Not afraid to give reads. The previous scumtopic (1950) that ended when this started makes me think Aaron wouldn't go into this as confidently as he did with the reads list. Some of the Ate earlier sounds legitimate.

This is where I changed my mind on Aaron @Hectic. How different to you think he feels to what you've played with? I obviously wasn't in these games so it's kind of second hand. I'll probably reread the slot sometime soon.

I see what you mean, I'd accidentally deleted that Aaron!scumgame from my personal wiki. Was just making sure you actually had good reasons to back it up.
Hop is still town, I buy Aaron's reasoning for being more aggressive for now, so he also stays in the town wiki for now.

@Hop: Why is Aaron the top reread priority? Doubting your read on him now?

Looking back to confirm and you changed your mind based on my meta read. Is your townread also based from that meta read?

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: why are you surprised I've not got you as locktown anymore/are considering you from POE?

There's 8 potential scum. If you discount Rick/Garmr/Aaron then that leaves 5 (with likely 4 scum in it based on game's I've looked at) at which point why would I/you not consider the other one as possible scum?

Kop
Hectic (or Hopkirk for you)
EeveeLution Army
texcat
Titus

You seem to have basically this as your lynchpool but with Rick added - please clarify this as it's unclear if you're treating him as confirmed.
Can you point to any interactions you've had with them that make any of them less likely partners?

[Hopkirk]

I am unsure why I like texcat after an iso there, like at all.
I need to look closer at who was on the Eevee/Alonzo wagons/counterwagons there. Think I've locked Eevee as scum based on a counterwagon that may be most/all town.

[Hopkirk]

So here is how the game has progressed for me:

Firstly, I think I scum read rooster early on, certainly in my mind, but I think i did also post - there wasn't much reason in the thread but he was posting in the hood, but not in the game which bothered me, I felt it was too early in the game to call it out but it adds up something wasn't right

Rooster left with nothing really happening in the hood.

Gook straight up asked me who is scum and I said IDK. In hindsight, this will be my best move of the game ha ha

Gook talks about elements a lot without actually giving a stance. It was still in the 'I dont trust you and you dont trust me' section of the hood

Gook tried to pressure me into giving more reads, but I couldnt be bothered reviewing 80 odd pages when a flip was incoming and he didnt like that at all, but I am lazy ok. I guess he wanted to know if i should be pushed if my reads were decent, idk be hard to influence that from his position.

He thinks JJD is town

He then says he thinks him being a gunsmith + elements role meant a scum doc exists (not sure what elements claimed if anything - i dont have a note here?)

He also says it's confirmed a scum doctor targetted a mason, but i dont know if this is true and i guess from our hood position he doesnt know if his known scum-mates made the n1 kill or if they got blocked - i.e. if it's single or multiball

He then does say depending on how big the scum team is there is most likely a serial killer (and earlier he asked how big i think the scum team is, so i think that gives something away)

He said he didnt want to claim because he'd probably die (sorry if you are reading)

He speculates eevee is the doc.

He said he would gunsmith Hopkirk or eevee but then I pointed out we thought eevee was a doc and he then picked from a pool of players i presented.

then he died.

Eevee may not be scum if the traitor rolecop wanted a credible reason to target Eevee actually.

Feel like the line about SK suggests this probably is the 4p scumteam as consistent with numbers.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Titus

[Hopkirk]

Still don't see why Cliff was lynched when we were waiting for and could have benefited from Kop's replacement.

[Hopkirk]

What do you think of aaron hop?

Town as I said twice above, based on the meta read. Scum him seemed a lot more cautious where he feels more open here.

Were i am now is that i think hopk is scum

VOTE: HopkVOTE:


The interaction of late between hopk and hectic do feel rather funny. Not sure is scum hopk is eitehr distancing from hectic or just trying to portray that. So not entirly sure on how hectic fits in yet

No indication why, seems pretty par for the course.

Hectic did claim surv. And his iso kinda matches it.

There's no way he's a survivor who joke claimed it page 1.

[Hopkirk]

I don't understand how you're so happy with so much of the game not doing anything Bob.

[Hopkirk]

So just Pine, Titus, Tex, Hectic to claim. We should get those claims today since we're looking closely at all of them.

Bob is town unless scum have a tracker. If scum have a tracker Bob only goes into the possible scum pool (many more likely scum remain). I wouldn't consider voting there unless we lynched a scum (backup?) tracker.

Garmr's claim feels like an odd role for scum to have. I'm still townreading there based on attitude/tone as earlier. Only scum explanation I can see there is scum have the backup watcher and Garmr's been getting legit no results from it. There's enough people I don't think flip scum with Garmr that I don't really see scumteams possible here.

Looking at the possible scumpool it just feels like the scum have had no impact this game. Looking at the Rooster kill feels like they weren't even reading.
I'm struggling to see Hectic deciding to kill Rooster there unless someone was really pushing hard for it.

[Hopkirk]

That should read Gobble not Rooster. Trying to count chickens offshoots after they've been buried has proven to be unexpectedly difficult.

[Hopkirk]

Texcat didn't really post anything after the Alonzo lynch. Lack of follow up on Eevee there makes me doubt his committal to the lynch. Kop flips scum if Tex does.

@Texcat: how do you read Hectic? You haven't expressed a read on him this game. How do you feel about Eevee and Titus?

[Hopkirk]

Lack of any actions used on me (assuming Garmr truth with seems reasonable) is more likely in cases where Hectic is scum as scum would know I wasn't an investigative (as I'd implied Hectic/Garmr as town)

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: Based on your reads if I'm scum then I've been pushing my scumpartners for 90% of the game.
We've discussed in the past several times that I'm not a fan of bussing so why does that seem likely to you now?

Why do you think I'd rely 100% on the towntell when you haven't flipped scum yet on MS?

[Hopkirk]

@LUV:

If you're replacing Kop, don't you need to post you're looking for a replacement in the replacement queue?

Kop also more likely to flip scum if Hectic does. It feels off that Hectic went to check this (though the joke made me laugh) when he wasn't posting any content.
Also Hectic keeping his vote on Cliff while saying 'let's wait until the replacement to end the day'.

Hectic normally actually does some content at some point and I don't think I've seen anything in the last two-three weeks. I can only account for like five-seven days of that time. D4 he still doesn't have clear reads on pretty much any of his possible partners.

[Hopkirk]

Assuming 4 scum we have what 2 mislynches left.
Assuming 5 scum (seems unlikely but can someone else verify this as I might have missed something and I don't make MS setups) we have 1 mislynch.

I'm happy to lynch the pool of 5 and work from there.

[Hopkirk]

My previous hectic read was a good townread that I didn't revisit, that I joked was a 100% read. It was more like 70-80% town.

On a reread of lots of stuff that changed. I very frequently reassess reads. See basically any of my games to see hard town/scumreads move between the two.

I convinced myself otherwise after reisoing 6/7 people, some of them 2-3 times.

[Hopkirk]

Nothing to do with how I read him.

- I was strongly implying an innocent on him (and maybe garmr)which also would lead him to believe I'm VT.
- Garmr says mafia didn't target me with kills, roleblocked etc the following night.
- the above is more likely to occur if mafia either don't have a roleblocker/way around cop OR if either hectic or Garmr is scum as they'd know I'm not a cop. Scum teams excluding them wouldn't have the same information as they'd see me getting two possible cop results that were actually true.

This didn't factor into my read change on Hectic as I thought of this after my read changed
I'll explain the read change part when I'm not toilet phone posting.

[Hopkirk]

so who is left to roleclaim.

Titus, Hectic (unless he's hardclaiming miller survivor), Texcat, Kopine.

Everyone scummy except Eevee.

I feel like scum gave up a while back and we should actually get around to lynching them at some point.

[Hopkirk]

Tinfoil hat theory is telling me that Hopkirk and Hectic are bussing right now but I don't really have any solid evidence for it. I think at least one of them are scum though.

What's your scumpool at right now?

[Hopkirk]

I don't really feel like putting more effort into trying to work out exactly which 4 of the 5 are the scumteam since we have a spare mislynch and there could technically be five scum.

This would go faster if any of the confirmed town were posting more than once a day.

[Hopkirk]

What I was saying there is that the confirmed town don't really seem to be asking each other questions to try and work stuff out. There seems to be people popping in and out, not cooperating to try and swap thoughts/opinions.

Rick I've had as town since d1. I still believe the claim and I don't see my read changing.

[Hopkirk]

I been under the assumption this whole time that you and hopkirk had a qt + a role and that's why you were town reading each other because of it.

I joked we were a second set of masons at one point.
I also very lightly softed an investigative with a clear on Hectic and you took my responses to your questions about it to mean I had a clear on you as well.

I been under the assumption this whole time that you and hopkirk had a qt + a role and that's why you were town reading each other because of it.

Nope. Hopkirk probably joked about it at some point.
I'm surprised people are reading his complete flip on me as genuine.
How can you go from "If anyone has anything bad to say about Hectic, say it now." to being okay with lynching me today?
People were always suspicious of his strong townread on me, so this was a necessity for him, also because some of his scumreads are actually probably scum, so he needed another person to possibly mislynch.

So some questions
-What benefit does scum Hopkirk get from pushing the 'Hectic is confirmed town' for several days and why did I do it?
-Given you're aware I've been memeing a lot, why are you treating it like I had you locktown?
-Why do I change my opinion on you now? Who is my scumteam if I flip scum?

You know I dislike bussing unless absolutely necessary. We've discussed this numerous times, and you ignored the question I asked you earlier about it. I'll ask again: You have me as scum and you ALSO have everyone I've spent the entire game pushing (Eevee, Kop, Titus) as most likely scum. Why have I spent the whole game pushing them? I don't see any credible attempt from you to look for my partners or develop the idea that 'Hopkirk is scum' into 'Hopkirk is scum which means x looks better and y looks worse'.

Tinfoil hat theory is telling me that Hopkirk and Hectic are bussing right now but I don't really have any solid evidence for it. I think at least one of them are scum though.

What's your scumpool at right now?

Not Eevee?

{Titus, Hopkirk, Hectic, tex, Garmr, Kop/Pine}

How many vt claims do we have now? 4?

At least 6 (billy,bob,hop,hec,eev,AFF).

[Hopkirk]

There's at most one town in (Hectic/Pine/Titus/Eevee/Kop). I don't care who it is because there's no reason I can see not to lynch all of them as our next 5 lynches. My activity is going to be roughly reducing to the average activity for this game from now until the 12th of December. If people want substantial input from me then I recommend stalling the days out until then. I'll likely go full V/La the week before that.

Would be hilarious if Pine was SK and just hadn't been killing ever because he hadn't been here the whole game.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

That Kop should say Hop.

[Hopkirk]

Pine hasn't claimed. I got him entirely mixed up. I'm not sure what your last post should say as the grammar makes no sense and it could easily mean several different things.

What's your reads list right now?

[Hopkirk]

That's L1 so let's wait for the claim. Then happy to hammer.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like the lack of vote counts is going to result in an accidental hammer, or someone claiming they accident hammered at some point this game.

[Hopkirk]

I thought you townread him for other reasons?

I can see why he'd lie- so scum don't shoot at the one confirmed town since they expect her to get protected.

[Hopkirk]

Literally even if you had a guilty there you absolutely should not have hammered without the claim there. No matter what he flips there's no way we lynch anyway except Titus tomorrow and I don't believe any pr claims that come after this day.

One hasn't quite been dragged into another day without claiming Billy.

[Hopkirk]

I expect pine to flip scum ~7 pp-80% and Titus to also flip scum.

[Hopkirk]

If Garmr is town scum don't have a backup watcher.

[Hopkirk]

If he's scum I mean.

[Hopkirk]

Any scenario that involves scum doing tracky stuff around carcalilly that hectic suggested earlier doesn't match with Garmr still claiming the result on carca. Scum tracky stuff would have had a no result if he/they actually targeted her and wouldn't have made the claim. Wouldn't make sense to claim if they actually had results.

[Hopkirk]

Assuming four days per day, two days for twilight and night taking longer, two days for night, and up to 4 more scum (probably 3 after this but we could mislynch once), and counting tonight, this could easily be over thirty days no matter how inevitable things look.

[Hopkirk]

Is there a way to request a backup mod? I'm getting concerns LUV will flake at some point.

We had a 6 itl day day phase with no vote counts after night was extended a fair bit. It's now day 2 after the hammer with no LUV in sight.

[Hopkirk]

I'm voting Titus as soon as Garmr gives his result.

[Hopkirk]

So I notice you hammered Pine without a claim?

[Hopkirk]

@Hectic: you missed me not actually townreading Tex. You also forgot to say that Aaron was bad because I townread him while using the same logic to scumread Tex.

Bob votes for Titus and scum!Aaron and Hop follow, seeing an easy route to victory.

I did jump the gun on that Titus vote I'll admit but that quickhammer yesterday was bad.

I see what you mean about Hopkirk's vote though (or intent to vote?). It implies that he's going to vote Titus regardless of Garmr's result.

That wasn't implied, it was exactly what I said. I was going to vote Titus as soon as Garmr claimed. I couldn't and still can't think of a result Garmr could give that'd make me think Titus is town.

If he corroborates her claim I'll think about things rather than insta vote, but that'd be to think about Garmr.

[Hopkirk]

I love how Hectic seems to have forgotten that he wasn't townreading Rick but then forgets that during the last page where he doesn't mention Rick at all.

[Hopkirk]

@Garmr: did you ever Voyeur Rick to see if he got roleblocked, if not why?

ISOed Titus and had a look at some of her other recent games and the play is very similar throughout them. The short posts and lack of analysis isn't an alignment-indicative thing. She's been promising a VCA for a while which never came, but I'm willing to give her the BoD on that based on other irl things.

Titus, why were you so against claiming your role yesterday? Why is a one-shot roleblocker something you particularly wanted to keep hidden?
Right now, I'm leaning towards lynching Eevee.

Please prove you've actually done this and aren't pretending to have read her meta.

UNVOTE:

If Titus is town here, then I can see why she would use her 1-shot ability if she feels like she's on the hot seat today. Of course if Garmr got a result then we know she's lying but I'll withhold my vote until I hear from Garmr.

Are you saying you would you townread Titus more if Garmr substantiated it?

[Hopkirk]

Hectic framing my flip on him as unnatural pretty much has to make him scum.

He knows I reevaluate games a lot. We recently had an (offsite) hydra where he could clearly see my reads flip frequently (tunneling turn to strongest townreads, strong townread to scumread). He shouldn't be surprised whatsoever that I moved him back to a scumpool when there was 7-8 non conf town.

[Hopkirk]

Tex makes sense to scumflip after Hectic. He's putting her in a position where he scumreads her, but only through association, so he would never lynch her before me.
Also he never really has anything to say about her before today aside from some limp questioning and a little defense.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@Cracalilly: can you look at Hectic/Garmr lynches sometime? I won't have time to read in depth for about a month.

[Hopkirk]

The Eevee, hectic, Titus, texcat scumteam definitely doesn't deserve to win. They've done basically nothing except sit back and let a few town screw over the rest of us.

[Hopkirk]

If those 4 flips don't end the game then I'll look at Garmr/Aaron interactions again, I should have time.for it by then.

[Hopkirk]

I don't even understand how this would be a win scum deserved if it went

D1- town lynched for dodgy claim made partially because the mod wasn't around for questions, though mainly because the player didn't question how their role worked. Self vote involved.

D2- Alonzo lynch.

D3- Lynched after fake guilty from town. Involves early self voting.

D4- Town policy lynched for two deferent lies about roles.

D5- lynched because the mod didn't replace a player who was inactive for 3 day phases, then the replacement didn't bother posting either.

D6- if you got lynched there by scum then it'd be a townie gamethrowing.

Like one of the lynches so far has been a legit lynch.

[Hopkirk]

Can we like mislynch me now.

VOTE: Garmr

Like if you think I'm scum pretend this is a scum claim if your scum jump on this. I really just wanna get lynched.

You realise this is LyLo, so if you're town, you're giving scum the win?
Good job locking yourself as scum.

We literally just finished a game together where the scumteam with all active members- 3- didn't manage to coordinate a hammer.
Before that (officer game) the scum did not coordinate possible hammers.

Questions:

Have you ever seen scum coordinate a lylo hammer that they could only make for a couple of hours?

If 3 player teams can't so it then why do you think the 5p team this would have to be can?

Why are you sure there's 5 scum, they can't or wouldn't try to quickhammer if there weren't 5.

Why do scum make the play of trying to quickhammer when that could easily reveal several of them.

Why haven't you treated other lylo votes like this?

If you townread Titus then why has she still not been hammered?

[Hopkirk]

So I was looking at past large normals to get an idea of how many scum would be in a 21 player game. The closest thing I could find to a game this size or bigger was This Game from just over a year ago. 25 player Large Normal that had 4 scum in it. I would wager that we have 5 scum at most including the dead traitor which would mean there's 4 left, making tomorrow lylo if we mislynch today.

I think scum!Hectic is trying to create paranoia about being in lylo when he knows that we aren't.

4 scum for 25 players?
There must be a serial killer or other anti-town roles in that game.
A standard 21 player game has... oh, I just realised it's 5 scum actually.
Since the number of town is 3× the number of scum + 1.
I think I concluded it must be 6 because one of the scum was a weaker traitor.
But I guess it's not definitely LyLo then.

Can you back that up based on competed games? I found one with 5 scum in it (not one team ) and 0 with 6 scum for this size.

That 25p had 4 normal scum. 21 probably doesn't have 5 and a traitor.

[Hopkirk]

The Eevee, hectic, Titus, texcat scumteam definitely doesn't deserve to win. They've done basically nothing except sit back and let a few town screw over the rest of us.

You're spending more time discussing how this team doesn't deserve to win in your last bout of posts rather than why they're actually scum.

I don't think I need to discuss why they're scum.

Based on what you know of my current schedule, do you think I'd be making long cases on scumreads that the conf town seem to agree with?

[Hopkirk]

Anyone in the entire game not happy to vote Tex?

[Hopkirk]

I can't remember anyone saying anything good or bad about her specifically. Nobody seems to townread her but nobody's ever tried to push her either.

[Hopkirk]

1.) That doesn't say I townread Tex. It says I want to lynch 3 people then find the remaining 1-2 from there. Notice how you weren't in the list despite me scumreading you as I still have a reason for some doubt.

2.) That's not you expressing a read on Rick. It's you leaving it open for you to read him either way later.

[Hopkirk]

I want to do Texcat or Eevee right now. They're both popping in and waiting for us to mislynch. Literally haven't even given us reads on half the players here.
@Texcat/Eevee: What are your readslists now?

Still think Garmr flips town here.

Honestly 3 scum is actually possible here. It's more likely than 5.

[Hopkirk]

Actually 3 scum seems very unlikely. We're looking at 4 based on other games.

[Hopkirk]

Tex became a good lynch since literally everyone is completely ignoring her.
Eevee I've wanted to lynch since d2 and still do.
Leaving Titus for a little while helps me sort you.

[Hopkirk]

If we were both town and Bob was scum who'd his partners be Hectic?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Eevee

[Hopkirk]

If we were both town and Bob was scum who'd his partners be Hectic?

Have you eliminated Bob as a suspect?

[Hopkirk]

If we were both town and Bob was scum who'd his partners be Hectic?

How could Bob be scum? I thought he was confirmed?

If you were town, Titus could in that case be scum.

If scum have a tracker then they tracked Cliff and know who he gave fruit to go could fake confirm Bob.
It's unlikely/we have few enough mislynches to spare that I'm currently treating him as has to be town, but he's not 100% confirmed.

[Hopkirk]

Can you go over your Titus townread Hectic?

Out of interest, how has nobody asked Hectic about his read on me changing?

[Hopkirk]

the traitor certainly though eve was scum no doubt

When he said i dont have PT with eve. As in being traitor not in teh main thread

Hey Bob can we lynch Eevee yet? We're only 2000 posts late.

[Hopkirk]

I like how Tex's scumread on us relied on her assumption we're not well read/don't know who a very famous American historical figure is.

[Hopkirk]

So Texcat, how exactly did

YOU

miss the traitor crumb. Being an American you must have picked up on it. Do you think it's kind of odd that YOU didn't mention it at the time if you're town and thought you saw a traitor crumb.

[Hopkirk]

That's all 4 of the confirmed town who scumread Eevee and none of the possible scum scumread Eevee except us iirc Hectic btw

[Hopkirk]

Finally, she's been treated as almost consensus scum for quite a while now, and that was after she started attacking Garmr, who is probably scum.

Can you actually show with quotes where (Texcat, Garmr, Eevee) scumread her? They all seem to townread her.
The vote on her earlier was me/bob/Aaron and you say you townread Aaron/Bob.

[Hopkirk]

So lets see who was on Eevee and who said they'd consider being there

Rick Dalton/Hopkirk/Texcat
Aaron- up for voting Eevee
Dave- up for voting Eevee
Gobble- only not voting as wanted lynch
(6 definite votes)

Billy- maybe.
Eevee- maybe.
JJD- wanted it earlier. Doesn’t acknowledge it now.

Bob- huh, hasn’t done anything in the last week
Titus- against
Kop- Literally didn’t post (except a prod dodge) for the entire 2 week day phase. Not sure why this wasn’t force replaced.
Carcalilly- against
Tchill- ?
Garmr- ?
Hectic- he’d have gone on Eevee but he probably wouldn’t have been online before deadline.
Cliff- hasn’t mentioned Eevee yet this game.

Is anyone saying they think me/Eevee are scum together when I went through calling out everyone who had suspicion on Eevee but wasn't on the wagon, tried to get them to switch wagons, and made a pretty long case https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11300681 trying to push the Eevee wagon over Alonzo after pushing Eevee for several days, and when we still could have gotten the wagon if town actually bothered showing up?

[Hopkirk]

Finally, she's been treated as almost consensus scum for quite a while now, and that was after she started attacking Garmr, who is probably scum.

Can you actually show with quotes where (Texcat, Garmr, Eevee) scumread her? They all seem to townread her.
The vote on her earlier was me/bob/Aaron and you say you townread Aaron/Bob.

I don't townread Aaron... but sure, I'll have a look.

So Tex and Eevee don't want to lynch Titus or Garmr here. I'm really surprised you haven't noticed this.

[Hopkirk]

Finally, she's been treated as almost consensus scum for quite a while now, and that was after she started attacking Garmr, who is probably scum.

Can you actually show with quotes where (Texcat, Garmr, Eevee) scumread her? They all seem to townread her.
The vote on her earlier was me/bob/Aaron and you say you townread Aaron/Bob.

I don't townread Aaron... but sure, I'll have a look.

So Tex and Eevee don't want to lynch Titus or Garmr here. I'm really surprised you haven't noticed this.

Actually scratch that, Eevee doesn't want to lynch them but Tex voted Garmr.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Alonzo

We need to consolidate

Traitor moved off Eevee right after Tex voted and a while before deadline.

[Hopkirk]

The lack of votecounts in this game makes trying to go back ridiculously difficult and it's really annoying/wasting time. Trying to get an understanding of the votes at that point is basically impossible unless I spend time I don't have on it.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry I don't use your method of referencing EE. Sorry real life has prevented me from posting but I am trying to catch up.

This is a terrible response. Looking through your entire posting and you don't mention Eevee by any other names either, except for that one reference you made that you quoted above which wasn't about Eevee at all.

Eevee is EEArmy which is Evolution Army sooo it was exactly about that slot.

Ok so you're saying you have mentioned Eevee because you say

Alonzo has a high chance of being scum due to the last second counter on EEarmy

that's fulfilling the technical wording of the problem I have but not the actual reason it's a problem.

Your attacks on me there I address and you ignored my responses. You've been throwing very minor shade without following up and you're clearly positioning.

How come you didn't mention anything about Eevee after Alonzo flipped town given what you say in 3242?

Cop guilty combined with real life. Then it slipped my mind.

It clearly ignores the actual point 'you have not mentioned Eevee directly or meaningfully at all'.
If the best response you can make it 'I mentioned them offhand once while refereed to the wagon on them without following up with an opinion later' is the best you can do then you're not answering the question, you're trying to make it look like you've answered or that I'm unreasonable. It's weaselly rules lawyery avoiding the actual question.

Hardly. You're just arguing what I can do is never good enough. I don't deny that I didn't follow up. I am not sure that's the only interaction but in that interaction, I clearly take the position that EEArmy is town and act accordingly in thread.

What do you feel about the lie here?

I attack Titus saying she hasn't mentioned Eevee.
Titus responds she has mentioned Eevee as she made an offhand reference without commenting on Eevee. She also says I must have not looked at mispellings and that she clearly townread Eevee.

She did not clearly townread Eevee at any point.
There was one misspelling which I quoted which did not mention any meaningful comment on Eevee, it was the one I mention where it's an offhand mention.

She then stopped responding to this line of questions.

[Hopkirk]

Let's just lynch Titus/Eevee/Tex instead of wasting time discussing then doing it anyway.

[Hopkirk]

@Aaron: why did you remove Eevee from your scumpool then agree we could lynch Eevee next? Is there anyone you townread out of all the non confirmed?

[Hopkirk]

I mean, that does look pretty scummy. I want to believe you're town, but I just really don't get your flip on me knowing what we both know.

Hectic framing my flip on him as unnatural pretty much has to make him scum.

He knows I reevaluate games a lot. We recently had an (offsite) hydra where he could clearly see my reads flip frequently (tunneling turn to strongest townreads, strong townread to scumread). He shouldn't be surprised whatsoever that I moved him back to a scumpool when there was 7-8 non conf town.

Are you still of this opinion?

I don't understand your turn on me/the reasoning behind it. If you think I'm 100% sure (which I've said I definitely am not confident enough in the towntell to be) you were town then changed to a scumlean then it should have been an instant turn rather than taking a day. It should have been either instant or not at all.

If you're town Aaron probably just replaces you as scum.

[Hopkirk]

I wonder if the scum are sweating in their PT thinking 'Is their mutual scumread just all an act so we don't kill either of them before lylo where we auto lose'.

[Hopkirk]

I'm semi-concerned how everyone seems to be scumreading 'at least one of Hopkirk/Hectic' so if one of us flipped town the other would be lynched.
Also Aaron/Tex pushing 'Hop and Hec' despite not picking up on the actually weird interactions we've had and using bad/np reasons instead.

[Hopkirk]

Night caralilly1- No results
Night 2 Tchill-No visits
Night 3-Hopkirk- no vists because I expected scum to kill the doctor and

Hopkirk claimed a power role. That could sort things

.
Night 4...

I been

under the assumption this whole time that you and hopkirk had a qt

+ a role and that's why you were town reading each other because of it.

Could you explain this?

[Hopkirk]

Unless you were assuming I was mason backup watcher or something this doesn't seem to make sense?

[Hopkirk]

The A is the name of someone we know shortened for anonymity.
I assume the

R

etc

is the towntell I

claim to

have on Hectic

.

I have

n't

tested i

n

t

hat much online, but

it works fairly consistently

irl.
I don't understand why he used R either so that probably doesn't count as a code since only Hectic knew what it meant.

Obvious when you think about it tbh

[Hopkirk]

Hey Aaron while you're here is there anyone you townread except the conf town/Rick?

[Hopkirk]

Let's take a look at Titus/Tex/AFF/Eevee then?

[Hopkirk]

Pedit: Bob close enough to confirmed.

There's literally no explanation for why AFF went from 'hard null' on 4 separate occasions to 'definite scum' on Titus and he's been voting us less than you'd expect him to if he was that sure on us.

[Hopkirk]

Tex: Wants to vote Hectic/Hopkirk/Garmr
AFF: Wants to vote Garmr/Hectic/Hopkirk (from what I can tell). Voted Titus with no explanation then quickly recanted it.


Hm

[Hopkirk]

Tex: Wants to vote Hectic/Hopkirk/Garmr
AFF: Wants to vote Garmr/Hectic/Hopkirk (from what I can tell). Voted Titus with no explanation then quickly recanted it.


Hm

Tex: Wants to vote Hectic/Hopkirk/Garmr
AFF: Wants to vote Garmr/Hectic/Hopkirk (from what I can tell). Voted Titus with no explanation then quickly recanted it.
Titus: Wants to vote Garmr. Does not want to lynch Eevee. Shading me.

Only outlier here is Eevee
Eevee: Wants to lynch Tex/AFF/Garmr/Titus. Has said one of us is probably bad.

[Hopkirk]

Tex still hasn't claimed. Anyone care? I do.

[Hopkirk]

Ctrl F did not find a claim for 'vanilla' or 'townie' and I don't remember Tex claiming a PR.

Can you link where you scumread Titus/where it became a scumread AFF?

[Hopkirk]

None of the conf town scumread have said they scumread me specifically, none have specified a townread on you, and some of them scumread you- eg Carcalilly is literally voting you.

I've been going after the Eevee lynch for most of the game.

Disagree with either point here?

[Hopkirk]

So have you answered any of the questions I've asked like 'why does Hop go after Eevee like that'?

[Hopkirk]

It's pretty late so this is a phone and short.

I believed it from early and haven't particularly reconsidered it since nobody's ever explained why scum Garmr makes that claim so early on for no actual benefit when it's so easy to cause a conflict later. Plus his reaction to Elements' claim. I put him down as I believe this claim and left him there a while ago.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like we both know scum me wouldn't have needed to flip my read on you. If we got to lylo you'd have voted the 3rd person based on my townblock tell and your tell that I'm not telling you. Realistically why would I flip on you rather than going for an easier target? I haven't actually pushed you or cased you yet, it's all questions that I don't particularly like your responses or lack of responses to.

Unless you specifically think the scumteam is me/aff/Garmr/Tex then scum me would.have had to be bussing at some point btw.

[Hopkirk]

Carcalilly voted you yesterday and put you in her scumpool of 5 today.

Me 'realizing I couldn't push you' would require an attempt to push you.

Real terms- why would I try to 1v1 you/take a super active role when I clearly won't be able to actually follow up with it? It doesn't make sense for scum hop to try and take such an active role as I wouldn't be able to keep it up.

(For context, I dropped out of a weekly thing involving hectic about the same time, until after upcoming exams).

After this week I don't anticipating posting anything except prodges for around 2 weeks.

[Hopkirk]

Scum hop could literally just wait and see if the conf town scumreqd you before dipping his read based on what you're saying? Why benefit do I get from flipping the read then doing nothing to follow up? I could literally just let my scumteam push you instead while continuing to defend you on meta to get towncred.

[Hopkirk]

There's prodges and then there's prodges as an artform. I doubt I'll have time for art.

I'm not saying you should hydra slip and post as hectic without signing posts and post artful prodges or anything like that.

[Hopkirk]

Hoptic*

[Hopkirk]

Last night I dreamt I was in a coma for 5 months after some issues doing detective work. When I woke up this game still wasn't done.

[Hopkirk]

(Titus/Texcat/AFF/Hectic) are the 'let's lynch Garmr block. I still have a townread on Garmr. None of them have addressed the main reason I've given for this despite me mentioning it at least twice to Hectic yesterday.
@Titus@Texcat@AFF@Hectic

Why does Garmr actually make that claim. It's such a bad fakeclaim for scum to make for so many reasons at that time.

All of them are pushing for him despite how much the rest of that block is pushing for him- despite the fact I think I'm the only non confirmed town who doesn't want to lynch Garmr. @Hectic especially: why did AFF/Texcat want to lynch Garmr yesterday so badly?

I want to lynch (Titus/Tex/Aff) today then have a look at Hectic before making the final decision. That's almost definitely the scumteam though.

[Hopkirk]

Tex: Wants to vote Hectic/Hopkirk/Garmr
AFF: Wants to vote Garmr/Hectic/Hopkirk (from what I can tell). Voted Titus with no explanation then quickly recanted it.


Hm

Tex: Wants to vote Hectic/Hopkirk/Garmr
AFF: Wants to vote Garmr/Hectic/Hopkirk (from what I can tell). Voted Titus with no explanation then quickly recanted it.
Titus: Wants to vote Garmr. Does not want to lynch Eevee. Shading me.

Only outlier here is Eevee
Eevee: Wants to lynch Tex/AFF/Garmr/Titus. Has said one of us is probably bad.

Pretty solid reason to lynch Tex/Aaron today and tomorrow here and this is why I want to leave Hectic for today. I want time to check whether they actually push Hectic at all.

Hectic I know pushes them, but as like 3rd choices. Only wants to lynch Tex after lynching me for example. Would need to look more carefully there.

[Hopkirk]

Though tbh if there's no hammer on Garmr then I no longer care about lynch order as it's (Titus/Hectic) from lack of hammer and (Tex/Aaron) from obviousness.

[Hopkirk]

L5 when i think there's 4 scum- scum can't coordinate a quickhammer

L3 with 3 scum - possible

If the wagon builds up to L2 and there's no QH then that's when I switch to 100% on you/Titus as opposed to 90%


You agreed AFF was pushing Garmr I believe.

[Hopkirk]

How come you're happy to vote Garmr when Tex still hasn't claimed if you're also putting Texcat as a top scumread?

[Hopkirk]

You don't have a problem with Tex/Aff inexplicably disliking you/me/Garmr and supporting each other and Titus?

[Hopkirk]

If we stall out the day a little and we get another 5-6 day twilight/night phase then I should be able to look through stuff again. I could look through Garmr again then so we could leave him/Titus.

Think the whole scumteam are going for a bus on Garmr over the win? I'm not 100% sure why they would since literally the entire scumpool (except me) is going for him so it's an obvious bus. Maybe so they could lynch Eevee then me, but then they still need another lynch and it's just them + conf town (assuming scum Garmr). Seems more likely they're just going for the win by going hard.

I'm happy with Tex or AFF today.

[Hopkirk]

Hectic: 'There's no danger of quickhammer since scum would need to coordinate'
Also Hectic 'Let me just put Garmr on L2'

You're 100% sure it's not Hopkirk/Aaron/Texcat/Titus then?

[Hopkirk]

I'm seeing a lot of 'AaronFrost is most likely scum here' yet not seeing any votes on me. I wonder why scum is so hesitant to attempt a mislynch on me?

Nobody's said you're most likely scum iirc.

I've said you're in my very small scumpool and Bob has definitely put you there. People like Hectic/Texcat either have you as town, or as 'scum but I'd prefer to lynch other people first'.

[Hopkirk]

@Titus: Ever going to go over who else you want to lynch after Garmr? Assuming a Garmr scumflip.

Same question @Tex and probably @Aaron.

[Hopkirk]

(Titus/Texcat/AFF/Hectic) are the 'let's lynch Garmr block. I still have a townread on Garmr. None of them have addressed the main reason I've given for this despite me mentioning it at least twice to Hectic yesterday.
@Titus@Texcat@AFF@Hectic

Why does Garmr actually make that claim. It's such a bad fakeclaim for scum to make for so many reasons at that time.

All of them are pushing for him despite how much the rest of that block is pushing for him- despite the fact I think I'm the only non confirmed town who doesn't want to lynch Garmr. @Hectic especially: why did AFF/Texcat want to lynch Garmr yesterday so badly?

I want to lynch (Titus/Tex/Aff) today then have a look at Hectic before making the final decision. That's almost definitely the scumteam though.

I don't think it's a bad fake claim at all. It was a good, safe, early fake claim. Garmr was just unlucky that Carca was ascetic.

On the other hand, I think it was a terrible town claim if Garmr is actually town.

So the only way that they can have got that result on Rick is by tracking Rick as far as I can tell.

Garmr was hinting at a tracker style role in his d1 interactions with Elements in a way that was going slightly against an Elements lynch.

Why does Garmr make that claim (as scum) d2, unprompted, in a way that doesn't lead anyone else to the lynch when he doesn't know what else is in the game? It's so easy to get caught in a conflict. If any of the fruit vendors/trackers/watchers we knew were in the game created a conflict in regard to actions - either in terms of his target or in terms of who they interacted with, he's basically caught.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: texcat

I don't see anything changing for me.

@titus- clearly I'm asking you who is scum with Garmr if you're 100% sure. Can you give some kind of reads list with some kind of reasons.

[Hopkirk]

Although one more vote on Tex then no quickhammer happening is effectively a flip that we can discuss right? Since it would either mean all 4 voters are scum or Tex is.

[Hopkirk]

Might as well confirm scum then discuss implications before flipping them.

[Hopkirk]

No comment on Tex being confirmed scum?

[Hopkirk]

I still want you to prove you actually did meta on Titus @Hectic. I think I asked this twice now.

After I made this comment a couple of weeks back

instance that ‘meta’ is a legitimate reason to townread someone without actually explaining what meta you’re talking about and when you haven't actually played with that person before or read any of their games (this one actually works btw).

I don't want it to turn out that's what you were actually doing right now

[Hopkirk]

Scum just tried to go for the win today.
Titus tomorrow.

[Hopkirk]

We flip Texcat then AFF then Titus and look at whether there's a tracker. Then things get settled.

[Hopkirk]

You haven't done your towntell in the second page of your iso btw.

[Hopkirk]

Not even close tbh.

On an unrelated note, from now on I'm lynching any light d1 townleans who aren't active in priority to actual scumreads.

[Hopkirk]

Nobody's hammering her. Do you think there's only 3 scum, or that the scumteam is me/hec/gam/RFD?

[Hopkirk]

Hey Bob, how come you never pointed out Aaron's been on every lynch so far?

Aaron scumslip then probably Titus then a reread with the knowledge there is not 4 like the solve assumed.

[Hopkirk]

I'm not sure why scum for autocorrected to scumslip when that's not a word.

[Hopkirk]

We lynch AFF today
we lynch Titus tomorrow
I guess I decide between Hectic and Garmr in lylo
(don't worry Hectic, i got you)

[Hopkirk]

I want to draw this day out so I can reread when I don't have exams so I won't be voting for a little while yet. Apologies to anyone who wanted this to end ever.

[Hopkirk]

I want to draw this day out so I can reread when I don't have exams so I won't be voting for a little while yet. Apologies to anyone who wanted this to end ever.

By which I mean we lynch AFF today then I reread tomorrow.

[Hopkirk]

I want to draw this day out so I can reread when I don't have exams so I won't be voting for a little while yet. Apologies to anyone who wanted this to end ever.

By which I mean we lynch AFF today then I reread tomorrow.

Huh guess you do want this game to end then.

To clarify, today means the in game day phrase here. I'm unlikely to hammer until the 12th on any wagon tbh.

[Hopkirk]

3 player mafia team makes me think the setup is something like triple ascetic mafia or all ninjas or something along those lines. We have tons of town power, but the actual roles don't help us.

I don't see how

2*masons
IC
Vanilla cop (cliff)
Watcher
Tracker
Backup tracker

Happens in a 21p game with 3 scum/traitor when you'd expect 4 normal scum unless there's something weird going on with night actions

The Titus/Garmr 'forgot' thing is starting to make me thing Rick may have solved things

[Hopkirk]

Voting patterns and Garmr/Titus/Aaron is pretty consistent tbh

Elements - (7): Cliff Booth, Titus, Rick Dalton, Sharon Tate, Garmr, Gamma Emerald, AaronFrost
Garmr/Titus/Aaron all voting
Elements - (11): Cliff Booth, Rick Dalton, Sharon Tate, AaronFrost, Tchill13, EeveeLution Army, bob3141, Carcalilly, Judge Joseph Dredd, profii, Elements
Garmr/Titus jump off as it builds up at a similar time

Tchill13 - (6): - gobbledygook, Hopkirk, Cliff Booth, Titus, Hectic, Garmr
EeveeLution Army - (5): - Judge Joseph Dredd, Rick Dalton, Billy Pilgrim, bob3141, AaronFrost
Titus/Garmr voting together (gooble too)

Alonzo - (7): - bob3141, Garmr, profii, Judge Joseph Dredd, AaronFrost, Titus, Billy Pilgrim
Alonzo - (10): - bob3141, Garmr, profii, Judge Joseph Dredd, AaronFrost, Titus, Billy Pilgrim, gobbledygook, davesaz, Cliff Booth
Garmr/Titus/Aaron voting together, Gobble joins

Judge Joseph Dredd - (9): Garmr, Hopkirk, bob3141, Carcalilly, Cliff Booth, Billy Pilgrim, AaronFrost, texcat, Judge Joseph Dread
Garmr and Aaron voting

Cliff Booth - (8): bob3141, AaronFrost, Titus, Carcalilly, Hectic, texcat, Garmr, Rick Dalton
Wagon stalls until Garmr joins, Titus/Aaron/Garmr voting together

Pine - (7): Billy Pilgrim, Hectic, davesaz, AaronFrost, Garmr, bob3141, Titus
All 3 on wagon despite TvG
(Future wagons are crossvoting)

[Hopkirk]

Reads flip at pretty much the same time too. Early game don't like that meta discussion they had. Reminds me of a meta discussion I had yesterday with a partner.
Don't really see a natural progression.

[Hopkirk]

this

time we've got the right solve

[Hopkirk]

There's not a single part of this setup that wasn't terrible.

[Hopkirk]

What were your abilities?

[Hopkirk]

This feels horrendously town sided

[Hopkirk]

After just finishing a game with a rolecop and mafia 'goons' that had a special factional ability (though that went better than this) I'm getting pretty sick of playing 'predict what gimmick the mod wants to throw into the setup' rather than mafia.

Was Titus or Hectic number 3? Assuming Titus.

[Hopkirk]

On the right lines switching to Hectic town again at the end at least then.

[Hopkirk]

If the town cop hadn't faked a guilty and gotten two town lynched you were screwed by setup.

If the masons didn't both out themselves d1 while widely townread then you can just get screwed so easily with like 5 confirmed town coming out d3 if you don't shoot prs.

[Hopkirk]

wanted to lynch aaron today. I would have found you beign alive suspect tomorrow but alas we never got there. But that was big red hearing. Wanted a few days to make the final choice between garmr and titus.

I knew aaron was scum for sure

Any towny shoudl have waited for my choice as I am confirmed town and thus no lynch would go through with out me.

So glad this game is over

I'm glad Hectic didn't wait to vote. We'd have just wasted another 3 weeks before losing.

[Hopkirk]

It's fine by site rules to let Hectic know it's over right?

[Hopkirk]

I never believed teh non consec though. But alas i wouldnt be position to point out that you simply lifted it from another game

I also assumed Rick was a regular doctor.

[Hopkirk]

There's absolutely nothing satisfying about this ending. It doesn't feel like we lost to play, it feels like losing to setup.
Obviously Rick played it well, but it just feels like I've wasted so much time on something that couldn't really be solved because of dumb setup gimmicks.


Joined three games since I had some time after a year of having a schedule that didn't allow for forum mafia

1.) Mod siteflaked at lylo
2.) Only modkill I've ever seen for issues other than activity + rolecop without 'roles' (though I'm fairly sure informed is a role).
3.) This one. Week long night phases. No votecounts for weeks at a time. Kop going a month without replacement. Fake guilties. The setup. Multiple self hammers.

Is this typical of the site now or have I just gotten unlucky?

[Hopkirk]

Winning wouldn't have felt satisfying either with how mafia sided the setup was tbh

[Hopkirk]

I very strongly considered subbing out at about three points

1.) Right after the other game when the mod flaked and LUV was posting very infrequently.
2.) The 7 day night phase.
3.) Every time I saw 'VC' left there for up to two days instead of the flip when I wanted to see the flip.

[Hopkirk]

Winning wouldn't have felt satisfying either with how mafia sided the setup was tbh

*town sided....

Idk, it’s pretty satisfying on this end. We played clean.

Town sided yeah.

My strength as scum is causing town to play a “guess the setup” game.


PENNYWISING

How'd you convince the mod to add a bunch of machos without a doctor.

[Hopkirk]

Can we get the scum QT?