Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

and that doesn't even count b/c it's a hydra game.

[RadiantCowbells]

no, I don't.

[RadiantCowbells]

then you have an extremely strange understanding of my scum game since i was trying my hardest to establish control over town that game

[RadiantCowbells]

you guys by acting like chickens with your heads cut off whenever my slot is coming into question are basically making my presence in this game a gigantic weakness for town when it really should be the opposite tb

[RadiantCowbells]

literally, none of the relevant trajectories of my play are the same between those games

in that game i had very consistent reads bc i had a very coherent plan, knew who i wanted access pointed and when, this game my reads are all over the place while i solve
that game i spent most of my posting time trying to get people to do specific things, this game i spend most of my posting time mulling over reads and trying to solve and at worst defending myself
that game i used insomnia's scumread on me to discredit his slot and take an entire chunk out of the game out of consideration for access point, this game i'm just telling people scumreading me to stop making asses of themselves and leave me alone and not really using them in a way that would be advantageous as scum

you're reading me off of extremely shallow things and if you're going to try to read me off of extremely shallow things you're better off not reading me at all because frankly no one on your team even knows how to look for anything that would be above rand as a tool for reading me

[RadiantCowbells]

every time i have to post about why i'm not scum instead of explain to you why someone else is scum the opportunity cost of that time is spent and my motivation as well as my entire teams' motivation fades away.

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean, she hasn't posted. and i've seen her flake outright from many games before. it's not like she's ignoring it and still posting, she just hasn't been here.

[RadiantCowbells]

The voices in my head tell me to cut off her head and hang it from the gates of Enbarr.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're late. I... We are all tired of waiting. Now, let's separate that sick head from your neck, shall we?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll see you in the eternal flame.

[RadiantCowbells]

He feels sincere. He says things that disproportionately come from town because they don't really have much reason to be said as town.
I think that it's Tris/Ari/Xtoxm and that scum are just hard lurking the game away hoping that we lynch someone here for being a brighter, shinier mislynch.

[RadiantCowbells]

"But Bellaphant" you say. But I have been in the situation of townreading Bella for her play, lynching her because she lurks the game away, and losing because she flips town before, not once but twice.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think I have at least one fairly good reason to townread everyone that isn't one of those 3 and I have literally no reasons to townread any of those 3.

[RadiantCowbells]

And there's like clear associative ties from Tris to the other two so.

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually think Plum makes a lot of sense in Ari's spot as well so I'm more keen on Xtoxm/Tris

[RadiantCowbells]

Despite my claimed Plum townread in my heart I would have no issues voting for her whereas I would have a lot of issues voting for a lot of my null-scum reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Some really smart and awesome person suggested that Plum/Tris might be SvS and I'm kind of vibing that right now if I put Flopz down as town. Don't remember who had that read tho

[RadiantCowbells]

Less for the stepping in regarding the party hat and more for how Tris seemed like she was discrediting scumreads on Plum while being really hedgy about giving a townread on her.
I also am not sure why I ever townread Plum, their tone is ungodly awful even if their thoughts are okay-ish, but like not tremendously hard to fake?

[RadiantCowbells]

i liked xtoms entrance more then yours

Can't say I disagree tbh

why?

[RadiantCowbells]

i actually knew it was you who said that, i can't risk accidentally calling some rando smart and awesome

if it's plum/tris i don't see ari being scum too

i was literally in the process of thinking about this but i'm not THAT sure he wouldn't double bus tbh
he's definitely, like, not the point in the potential triangle that you vote first.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't have that good of a reason to say Xtoxm is the third outside of PoE. I'm not super keen on either Tris's or Plum's single associative with that slot but I don't think it's like a smoking gun.

[RadiantCowbells]

Tris has had like, a ton of points where she took a bunch of really bad takes that seemed far more likely to come from scum. I can compile them.

[RadiantCowbells]

@rc, why DID you respond for me?

what's the point of this question?
why is it scum indicative that I "garciad", like I was clearly pushing someone else and this is well within standard play both for me and people in general.

Tris I'd mostly a meta tone read. The way she omgus voted Math is reminiscent of her townplay in Port Arthur when scum pushed for her mislynch early.

that is one of the games that contributes to my experiences of scum trying to mislynch me. although, as my interactions with math continued, it did seem to be possibly different here. as i think i said days ago i'll have to review that.

this is incredibly roundabout and waffly and vague!

I don't know exactly what to make of skitter, like I mostly agree with her views on a lot of things and her reasoning is all quite *reasonable* but I don't know enough to say if that impression should give other than a null read on her right now

if that's all you get from skitter, then that means she's probably scum. I find that when she's town, she has a little extra that comes through. that said, i think i saw a bit of town early on, but i'm not sure. it will of course be more clear when i've seen her post more.

This is three things: incredibly waffly, incredibly vague, and it kind of sets someone else up to scumread you while not actually committing to the read from her end.

You think that my scumreads are town and if I successfully flip them scum and live you're just going to go after me for it.
I'm not doing this again. If you're scum I'm ripping the bandaid off,

if you're town I'm not letting you lead another game off a cliff.

And it's really rich for you to talk about my record reading you.

I really do not like the bolded. it's not like skitter was really leading town anywhere at that point.

Like you're within rights to not like it but this is taking my words overly literally imo
Even if you scumread this as town I think you scumread it more deeply/broadly rather than for this nitpicky 'contradiction'
like I don't think as town the first thing you get out of this post is 'well technically skitter aint leadin SHIT'

why is xtoxm still saying anything on page 20?

Already brought this up, but like, what exactly is this asking?

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Tris

I'm gonna try to make this happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that if she was town her read would be a lot deeper than that

I don't inherently object to scumreading it. I just think that's how scum scumreads it rather than town.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's what I meant by deeper or broader though
I expected her to actually call me out for picking a fight with you rather than for "saying you were leading town when you weren't"
or for some deeper meaning behind those words

that's not what she actually said

[RadiantCowbells]

Like she didn't call me scum for the overarching meaning, she called me scum for one specific phrase that I used. And she interacted with that specific phrase on an extremely shallow level.
I would have been more fine with it if she scumread me more broadly (ie scumread me for the general act of going after you in that way) or if she zeroed in on what she did in a deeper way.

[RadiantCowbells]

possible that she was actually trying to get my mislynch out of it as opposed to having it fade away.

[RadiantCowbells]

probably. i can't say i think that the first one wasn't pro-town in the long run. at least we're talking now?

[RadiantCowbells]

Could be Ari instead of you as well with almost no loss of # of associatives pointing in that direction.

[RadiantCowbells]

Basically I'm saying if you're town I like your lunch order generally

[RadiantCowbells]

Tris/Ari is 2

Idk 3 but Xtozm is the easiest answer.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ducks associatives with that pairing is bananas and his entire 'hardline policy stand against me' makes sense if he's trying to prevent people from following me in a game where I caught two scum early tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Like either scum is like just the lurkers or are super happy with the current gamestate and idk how to tell which it is rn

Thing is

even 1 flip going not the way you expect it to speaks to something being awry, no?

It's not like we have to wait til D4 for answers

[RadiantCowbells]

He's not going to play in the intersection of {D1, me}

I believe he will play once one of those things is not true.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: teacher policy.

I'm going to go way out on a limb and case Worst in advance in the case that Tris/Ari do in fact flip scum but other than that my teams focus needs to go elsewhere.

I'm not worried about him rn either but I want to play for the future for obvious reasons

[RadiantCowbells]

That vote is fine

I'm just loling

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry your job sucks, what's up?

[RadiantCowbells]

Have you considered joining 27 mafia games?

[RadiantCowbells]

When did this game turn into sheep RC

Are people literally not allowed to vote the same people that I vote because I'm RC and they'd be sheeping me and we gotta stick it to RC and show him absolutely zero respect reads wise?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Math

Can I get your thoughts on exactly TW/Ari/Tris?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok that's what I wanted to hear from you, if you agreed I'd think I was wrong tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't say that to be mean. It just is.

[RadiantCowbells]

I look especially down on Duckling in the context of his associatives with Aristophanes btw

He agrees that Ari did some scummy shit, fixates on getting a readslist from him without committing anything to anything, and gets really sour about the game as it progresses and Ari is still a wagon

Also want to point out that everything I said makes him town flies out the window if Ari is scum wrt Skitter because he really needed all the wagon options he can get and honestly threatening to policy lynch me for leading a wagon? Fuck that fuck that fuck that this isn't real I refuse to believe that this is an actual thing that an actual duckling would do. This is a scum duckling.

[RadiantCowbells]

See his vote on Skitter always struck me as weird but it makes a ton of sense in the sense of wanting a low key, low visibility way of jumping off the Ari wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

Bad scum duckling, bad

[RadiantCowbells]

0 breadcrumbs for you

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm actually

Very ambivalent on the AIness of that point

That's not why it's a scum duckling

[RadiantCowbells]

I think he just wanted a vote off that wouldn't be questioned

And the vagueness of the reason and everything made it serve that purpose

I don't think he was trying to mislynch you, I think he was trying to use you as a pivot so it's less obvious that he's unvoting Ari at the same time he's voting someone else

[RadiantCowbells]

There's so much wrong with how he's engaging with me

And it reminds me of Shoshin in baton pass

Because I kept calling her out like you know that engaging with me in this way is just going to tilt me and is super antitown regardless of whether you think I'm scum or not but he's choosing to do it anyway

I do not buy Ducks claim that I am so intolerable in this game that he randomly wants to policy lynch me as town.

That's not the kind of relationship we have.

[RadiantCowbells]

Threatening to policy lynch me is what you do if you're trying to get me to throw a fit and derail the game

[RadiantCowbells]

Different relationships and different personalities

Going after you is only going to set you off on me as far as my thinking would go as scum.

But yeah, I get what you're saying, but.

[RadiantCowbells]

And you do know I was always planning on unvoting you if I became sure you were town right?

Do I have to say that?

[RadiantCowbells]

Bad vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, i dont get the difference

Explain why it's scummy for him to have done that when you literally tried pulling that on me 3 days ago

Because I'm not duckling and trying to read us off of the same logic doesn't work because of that.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's not...

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes because these are two different situations and playersets.

I get really salty under pressure and do things like that.

Duckling was in a cold low emotive state and isn't subject to the same volatility

[RadiantCowbells]

Math you don't play town

You play how can I do my absolute best to screw with RadiantCowbells

You only think I policy lynched you this game because you'd do the same thing to me: I had my own game to play and I thought you were scum and I unvoted you when I wasn't thinking you were scum and my trajectory really isn't hard to follow.

[RadiantCowbells]

You may think it's asinine and I prolly can't convince you today but I'm right.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you keep insisting I fakeclaimed

No, I claimed Implosion had two guns. Like muscles. It was a joke that Ari got and other people got but you keep citing it as me playing antitown. Are you really too dense to tell that when I make a claim about the game mod it isn't serious?

[RadiantCowbells]

Rc you're basically saying that it's ok for you to force pls on either people but if anyone suggest it on you it's a reason for you to sr them

I'm saying that it is a fact

Call me a hypocrite if you want to

That certain things are a scumtell for certain people

And just because I did something as town doesn't mean it's a towntell for other people.

For example if most people have a long stretch in the midgame like I did where I was uninterested in voting or pushing wagons: that's a scumtell. It is not a scumtell for me and is probably the exact opposite.

This isn't a game of fairness or whatever, the simple fact is people are different and you can read different people off of different things and it's not a question of hypocrisy in the sense that you're seeing it as, things just are the way they are and Duck doesn't do that as town

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I claimed investigative to explain to Skitter why I made a set of actions in the game. It had nothing to do with preventing my own lynch because my lynch has never been something that was remotely likely to happen.

[RadiantCowbells]

Wait so I don't have a result on D1? Crazy almost like that's how mechanics work.

[RadiantCowbells]

Skitter, can you find 1 example of Duck bringing up or pushing a Pl on literally anyone? Can we start there?

[RadiantCowbells]

Thing is

Hypocrite implies a level of moral judgement

I simply think that what I do as scum is not equal to what other people would do as scum necessarily.

Yeah sure I could conceivably push a policy lynch as scum and I fact I have pushed a policy lynch as scum on FL when he secret alted and joined my game after I asked him following multiple games to never join my games against and he kept doing it. But that's also not even remotely the situation here?

[RadiantCowbells]

I dont have a catalogue of all of his games in my head but in all the games that i'm aware of i dont remember him doing that as either alignment

And can you see why it would make a lot of sense as a line of play as scum where I'm progressively townlocking more and more townies and preventing mislynches ie Bella and he wants to either deter me from taking a bigger role or to simply set me off into a rage so people stop taking me seriously?

Why do that as town?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok

I don't want to set you off.

Just remember this after I'm dead.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean

It could be the other option that by preventing me from taking a bigger role there are several mislynches (ico Bella) that are much easier to obtain

One of which he's currently voting btw

And I think Duck generally knows better than to vote an overlapping NSG RC tlwnread tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Like he didn't try to policy lynch me when I didn't back down
He just *sigh*ed
So maybe he just wanted to shut me up without picking that fight.

Whatever.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry *ugh*Ed but yeah.

I'm fine with my current vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

If he was Ruru he'd have ugged instead.

[RadiantCowbells]

I should just case him off of bad associatives tbh

Instead of all this stuff that honestly isn't going to convince anyone

[RadiantCowbells]

Everything I'm referring to happened before today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Final answer for me seems to have been
{Ari/TW/(1 of 3 Tris/Plum/Xtoxm)} in that order of likeliness

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry Skitter

VOTE: Aristophanes

I think Tris is likely scum but I only know 1/2 of Plum Tris is scum whereas this shit is outed W

[RadiantCowbells]

Ngl I'm kinda vibing Plum more as the partner atm but ok

[RadiantCowbells]

For all ducks belonging to the set of players in this game

Do not give breadcrumbs.

[RadiantCowbells]

The current scum meta seems to be

Townread 1 buddy
Scumread the other

[RadiantCowbells]

lol

[RadiantCowbells]

bad duck no breadcrumbs

[RadiantCowbells]

Mostly bc of her trajectory - pushing flopz who is voting with RC opens up a chainsaw defense of RC by killing flopz if Ari is a mislynch. Plus it unaligns their pushes

This is like the biggest turd of all time
Why do I want to be pushing the same person as my teammate
Why do I care that Flopz is currently voting the same person as me

[RadiantCowbells]

You just can't make enemies with the entire town.

[RadiantCowbells]

That is more words to say nothing than I've ever seen you say as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I solved the game, scum has to mislynch me and somehow discredit my reads after I'm dead or lose.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll vote Duck or Ari.

I don't know who out of Plum or Tris is actually scum so I'm not voting there.

This is exactly what Duck did in the last game he was scum against me, discredit me and shit on my reads until I called him scum for it then vote me.

If he has an issue whereby he wants to policy lynch me, I told him he could avoid the thread and skip D1. He didn't do that. He instead continued discrediting me and pushing mislynches (Bella should be obviously town at this point?) That shows that this policy lynch BS isn't actually a complaint about my playstyle. He had the choice to avoid it and have a phenomenal town player lead town but he didn't take it in favor of instigating me and trying to discredit my reads and pushing mislynches. That's because this entire waah RC thing is just a move to prevent me from establishing myself enough to do real damage to scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I'm not camping shit to mess with your integrity.

I'm playing the exact same game that I always do.

You just don't like it because you know that I'm POEing the game and if even 1 scum flips at this point you guys lose as a team.

I'm literally voting one of your claimed scumreads. But you can't vote here because you don't walk away after.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm aware that a lot of people in this game don't respect you.

Duckling does.

Duckling as town who has already pointed out that I am outside of my scum range doesn't go after me and try to policy lynch me.

Duckling as town doesn't try to policy lynch me when he can just... let me lynch scum like I do over 2/3 of day phases I'm alive in and he is aware of.

He's playing to the ra ra I hate RC because it's a common sentiment across TM but it doesn't apply to him and he's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Duck: let's policy Lynch RC who also has access to NSGs reads and also NSG reads have the dimension of a paperback

Also duck: RC is trying to alienate me.from the thread!!!!!

[RadiantCowbells]

No this doesn't feel prewritten at all and how TF am I supposed to randomly know we're having this fight today? If you're implying wow he's too towny to be writing in real time as scum so it must be prewritten then yes, ding ding ding! I'm town. You're not. No breadcrumbs for naughty ducks.

[RadiantCowbells]

Don't respect me.
Like I see how you're playing off trying to generate empathy for the 'omg I hate RC so much I am just gonna policy lynch him' but that's not you.
You're just trying to portray ~relatable~ emotions to the other people in the game who don't altogether like me to try to get me lynched without having to actually push me as scum, which is borderline impossible.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is team mafia; this wasn't prewritten; I did know this was coming because I've been fairly sure I have the solve and I didn't expect you to take me solving the game lying down.
You either fight me now or you take the L and you're choosing the former option. You tried to get away with doing very little until that became no longer tenable and now you're gearing up for the fight. Kind of like, again, Jingle's fake newbie.

[RadiantCowbells]

This post is straight out of volpe's scum handbook from that 9p vig game lmao

Except I'm RC and he's volpe. I don't take pages from other people's handbooks. I do my own thing. And this is really fake lol

[RadiantCowbells]

no like
I'm quite a lot more experienced than I was before
you're making this game nigh unplayable for me
this list is like very good. specifically, you are doing my head in.
I think it's belittling/discrediting behaviour and I don't like it for town!RC. you can be antagonistic but I've never found you shit to play with before.
we've spoken about this before, and I'm not going to let my alignment decide to treat you like you deserve to be plynched. I'm going to let your behaviour decide if you should be plynched.

I am only making this game unplayable for you because you're scum and I'm not giving you any reasonable paths to victory.
No, we haven't spoken about policy lynching me because YOU WOULD NEVER ACTUALLY TRY TO POLICY LYNCH ME BECAUSE WE ARE FRIENDS. What?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if you're essentially trying to complain that I'm so poorly behaved that I should be policy lynched then report me.
If it's just rhetoric, then kindly don't go there?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I've literally already claimed PR to the point that I have no lifespan as scum. You're not this stupid. You're just scum trying to take advantage of other people's enmity towards me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I can't conscionably lurk through d1 completely.

also what is this lol. leaving the game in the hands of NSG and RC sure is an unconscionable decision when you had claimed several times to townread me.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're acting like I'm doing something I'm not. You're perfectly free to do anything you want. I didn't enforce you lurking. I didn't enforce you voting anyone. I simply voted my scumreads, and called you scum.

I wasn't even voting you today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you only really got salty about me at 3 points in this game

When I said that NSG scumread you
When I said that I was going to be more proactive about leading lynches (while you were trying to lynch Bella who I was hard defending)
And now, when I said that you were scum with Ari

I'm even voting an overlapping scumread and you've just thrown out your entire trajectory to push a lynch on you.

You're literally making up an alternative version of events.

[RadiantCowbells]

please respond to this including context because this is absurd. I can't fully lurk full stop. I compulsively post my thoughts.

I mean. You can post thoughts. I never TOLD you to stop posting thoughts. I never interfered with any of your reads. I barely even pushed back against you voting Bellaphant even though I thought it was a fucking terrible decision.

[RadiantCowbells]

I flicked back, aside from my ~literally being present in the thread~ you were capable of engaging just fine with Flopz and whoever. Sorry I was literally there?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if anything that read is the opposite of the truth.
I am being far less domineering than is my norm as town and if there's a reason I'm scum it's because I wasn't hard preventing mislynches.
You don't scumread? me in this game for being TOO DOMINEERING when I've literally been super gentle about people.

this post is pot/kettle you're literally misrepresenting the way I handled those points in the thread to over simplify them and make me look worse than I am.

This is exactly the same thing you did by abandoning your own read to sheep nsg's surface level scumread

wait wait you mean the same read that I said was lazy and that I wasn't thinking too too much about because I figured it was someone elses problem because you were low posting?
Then when NORTHSIDEGAL, literally the best town player currently active,

and you fucking know this

, calls you a strong scumread I listen to her?

this isn't a complicated situation duck, you're just playing it up as one to discredit me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Huh funny claim because

[RadiantCowbells]

She correctly read you in 2049
She correctly read you in Coalition
She correctly read you in Undertale
She correctly read you in Pop goes the nightkill
She

incorrectly

read you in C9++

And she says these are your last 5 games.

[RadiantCowbells]

Dude NSG is barely playing her own game, don't try to manipulate NSG into changing my reads. I watched Mathdino do this when we hydraed. Not gonna work here.

[RadiantCowbells]

She'll respond when she shows up but I'm pretty sure you're just using this as a tool to say "SEE NSG DIDNT RESPOND" when you know that she's barely present.

[RadiantCowbells]

I know that you're trying to present yourself as the reasonable one in this dichotomy but you're really not when you're wagoning a claimed investigative on D1 because they called you scum.

Bad duck no breadcrumbs, etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ceph specifically thinks that noone should be pushing RC right now. Hard agree.

This should have been duck saying this btw. Skitter doesn't generally know how to get along with me. Most of the other game lacks experience me.
It shouldn't take someone who isn't in this game to point out the obvious, it should have been the only person in this game I've actually played a substantial # of games with and whom I get along with?

Except it wasn't because that person was trying to tilt me and push policy lynches on me because I was... 'spamming'

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll check and see if i'm missing any games w/o outing hidden alts but even off that list it's been a long time since she's correctly read town!me; i really don't accept that she doesn't feel that she might be rusty and i don't accept that you think she's more able than you are to get this right =_=

yeah, but i don't. I think you're scum on my own merits now and they're for entirely different reasons than she thought I was scum.
And my townread on you was ALWAYS more "well I don't feel like dealing with trying to read Duck when he's clearly distant from the thread, so I'll pass the responsibility on to skitter"
I even explicitly said that I was mostly comfortable calling you town because other people scumread you and you wouldn't get cleared off of my read on you.

You're portraying apples as oranges.

[RadiantCowbells]

ok i think eddie wanted to engage with her and like honestly trying to eat my new pair of shoes is more productive than me trying to engage with you so... i'll take another sample of you trying to shoot me and my team down :/

???

shoot you and your team down? lol

[RadiantCowbells]

you're literally trying to bypass me and convince one of my team members to convince me to stop playing my own game. I even asked for anks reads twice bc I respect her. And I'm shutting down your teams reads?

I'm shutting down Eddie Cane because you went after me as soon as he got involved, because he would be the one on your team who would recognize that mislynching me is the only real path to victory here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I know that you're trying to present yourself as the reasonable one in this dichotomy but you're really not when you're wagoning a claimed investigative on D1 because they called you scum.

Bad duck no breadcrumbs, etc.

honestly don't give a shittttt
i'm not trying to appear reasonable
i'm like tearing my hair out

if i appear reasonable on my own, ha ha, maybe that's because i'm sincerely extremely frustrated !

no you don't appear reasonable, you're just trying to portray me as the bad guy and it's not going to work here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ari/TW are still scum. I've still done nothing besides push my reads. I'd prefer to not give this win to Eddie Cane for convincing TW to drag this game to the lowest level possible.

[RadiantCowbells]

My vote's still on Aristophanes, who is a claimed mutual scumread with TW, and if he believes that he can't read my associatives he should also believe that voting the scummiest independent players is correct. I bus. So.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok, duck. I didn't think you were like this then.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean it's a genuine belief system. If you've really convinced yourself that my play is this bad, you're still wrong about it.
I'm pushing my reads, I gave you a license to take a break and wait for me to die, I haven't even been pulling you off of votes on my townreads.

I've given you an insane amount of leeway to do your own thing that I rarely do in games where I'm like "OK WE ARE LYNCHING EXACTLY X AND NO ONE ELSE."

Why is this game suddenly the problem if you're town, because I don't see it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't even think its AI because Shadoweh, Bujaber, Shoshin, etc have all flipped out versus me as scum for this ballpark of reasons in games where I was making the game impossible for them.
But. I'm not accusing Eddie Cane rhetorically. I think that what you're doing now isn't great because it's objectively untrue unless you literally just don't want to see me post.

[RadiantCowbells]

And, uh, I can't help you with that because it's an unreasonable expectation that I don't post at all in team mafia. I've already backed down on what I perceive as playing to win in the favor of making the game pleasant.
I'm absolutely not going to simply not play when no one else was driving the game in any positive directions; I offered, nothing happened, I went back to doing my own thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually have nothing further to say to you because I'm pissed off and I don't actually plan on involving NSG in this game further.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like if we're friends behind closed doors but you gotta treat me like this in public fine but leave me out of it and leave NSG out of it. I still think you're scum. I don't like letting this kind of play win games.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you know better than any of that as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, I know you're scum. I don't have much interest in aiding Eddie in trying to townspew your slot via further reasonableness.
I don't like you shitting on me when I went very far out of my way to engage you and talk to you and you just kept getting mad at me for it.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, it's pretty much the standard scum play versus me? Act like you're being all reasonable and normal and I'm the crazy guy spamming shouting and ruining the game for everyone just because I have reads and I'm pushing them?

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's see, what did Shoshin do both times? What did Shadoweh/Maria hydra do? This whole, like, act like I'm a terrible person for pushing on scum seems to be standard scum playbook right now and I'm not quite sure why?
I'm just pushing my reads. You aren't entitled to inserting NSG in my place and it's pretty much my teams policy that we're playing our own games as opposed to someone elses.

And TW? If hypothetically you're reading all the games that you're connected to (I cannot claim whether or not it is, but you guys can discover this if you choose) you'd realize the significance of NSG being involved in this game to the extent that she was.

[RadiantCowbells]

We're giving tw a pass day1and we'll pick up with him tom
We're letting rc try to find scum day1 and we'll pick up with him tom if he isnt dead

Can we just stop it now please ...

If you mislynch today, learn the lesson from the newbie and sheep my scumreads tomorrow. Please.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like atp if you lead a mislynch it's gonna be easy for scum to force it through and then it's easy to justify my nightkill because I'm going to flip PR.

I can't stop you mislynching today but I can say that you really, really, really need to put some faith in me once I'm flipped town.

And by the way, you can't figure out if I'm finding scum or not if you don't vote my scumreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like do you not realize the significance of the fact that me and Duck have a mutual scumread on Ari and he's voting me anyways for going after him?

[RadiantCowbells]

pedit: i'm null but very concerned on ari
not a hard scumread just...poe-ey

Another way of phrasing this: you want to be able to jump ship to it if it's absolutely inevitable but you don't want to lead it if you don't have to.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ari would be a good partner choice.

help me bus!

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, TW's emphasis on getting a 'tiered readslist' from Aristophanes before he voted them (when there were lots of votes) was really out of place.
TW's jump off the wagon voting Skitter for basically nothing was really out of place.

He did you notice RC voteparked me when we had a mutual scumread of Ari?

RC if you’re town stop fighting with TW and find more scum please.
Ditto to the worst.

This fight is not productive.

I am literally voting a non!Duckling scum right now. I am simply shutting down Duckling attempting to lynch me.

[RadiantCowbells]

ari can you throw me a super quick tiered readlist when you next check in please

i'm persuaded
VOTE: ari

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Ok

VOTE: skitter this is so upsetting

Also I want to refer to all this
He says some weird waffly shit about wanting a tiered readslist from Ari
Then he votes them when there are a bunch of people on the wagon
I am not quoting everything but he says LITERALLY NOTHING about aristophanes the entire time he's off the wagon
and then he hops off in a super low key way

[RadiantCowbells]

ari can you throw me a super quick tiered readlist when you next check in please

i'm persuaded
VOTE: ari

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Ok

VOTE: skitter this is so upsetting

Also I want to refer to all this
He says some weird waffly shit about wanting a tiered readslist from Ari
Then he votes them when there are a bunch of people on the wagon
I am not quoting everything but he says LITERALLY NOTHING about aristophanes the entire time he's off the wagon
and then he hops off in a super low key way

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, he withholds Ank's read on Aristophanes? What? Why withhold the most relevant read on the person that he is currently voting and who is at the centre of the conversation lol

[RadiantCowbells]

You were trying to make him sweat so you said absolutely nothing about him? @_@

[RadiantCowbells]

You called a bunch of other people scum to make the person you were voting sweat, is that a correct interpretation? Because you kept calling other people scum even before you voted Skitter.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like ok

You can say that

Like I believe that you are good enough as scum to make some sort of somewhat reasonable narrative for why you did this

But assuming I'm right and Ari flips scum you said weird shit about him, voted him, never talked about him, unvoted in a weird way, talked all game about how he was scummy without voting him in terms of read placements, then started a big fight with me when I tried to change the wagon to Aristophanes.

That's where I'm standing, here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wasn't saying you were/would fake something. I was using the fake thing to indicate you know, the reads were kinda crazy. I also wasnt saying your reads were dictated, just like...ive felt this way before in a similar sitch with someone on your team. Like, I'm.happy to chalk this up to ' we don't communicate great' but for you that means I'm in your scum pool. *Le shrug*

@skitter, sorry!

Sounds good to me.

RC+TW+Ari? Any takers

Funnily enough this is probably the best readslist I have ever seen you give.

[RadiantCowbells]

<3 you Skitter and sorry you're stuck in the middle of this.

[RadiantCowbells]

if this was the team
i'd be banking on bussing Ari d1
then coasting thru without really needing to interact w RC all that much

so you should probably just lynch RC or I

another way of saying, Duckling knows his associatives with Ari are unsalvageable and he's trying to take me down first and push an entirely new scumteam agenda tomorrow.
Also, look at all the correct scumreads he suddenly came up with when this started, Ico, Bella, etc. were all his scumreads. They're town. Suddenly they're his scumreads? Why? Either...

1) When I started pushing Ari, he had a sudden ~moment of clarity~ with regards to his reads and he should be thanking me
or
2) When I started pushing Ari, he realized he was in a bad spot and he needed to buy a ton of towncred by townreading people so that he could meaningfully stand a chance in a 1v1 with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Suddenly they're his TOWN* reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Suddenly coming up with a bunch of correct townreads when you need towncred isn't natural.

[RadiantCowbells]

And frankly I have associatives with Ico that look reasonably SvS if that's what you're actually looking for, as opposed to you just trying to pocket people.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like Ico literally tried to argue that I wasn't a likely scum nightkill relative to some others. That's exactly the kind of thing that you see and go hmm this is a SvS motivated thing to push

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't know exactly what you're looking for me to say. I townread them.
You should be more concerned that TW started townreading them out of the fucking blue when he needed slots to start siding with him than that I came to those positions over time.
Like I did pretty insta-townread you, but I was scumreading Ico originally until he started not backing down on things that felt more likely to be stubborn town than scum

Ico hasn't done anything recently to be townread besides the stuff he did earlier, so where's that coming from on Duck?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like, the #1 thing that town me gets called out for is having TMI townreads. I know how to find town.

[RadiantCowbells]

I fakeclaimed masons with Lovebird in DND upick when she had 9 posts and none of them was more than a 1 liner, I was that sure she was town. Both of you have many times more content than I require to locktown someone.

[RadiantCowbells]

This just *me*.

shrug

if I were scum I'd feel a lot more obligated to like say a bunch of stuff about how the read progressed rather than be like nah that's town.

[RadiantCowbells]

See like you can say that, and that's somewhat believable, but I don't think that it's the first direction your read goes.
At this point I have most of the posts in the game memorized and I can say relatively confidently that there's more reasons to see us as buddies than to clear us.
I also called Ico scum and then randomly decided he was town that would have looked rather out of the blue and I've done that with a lot of scumbuddies recently, so I also don't buy that progression from you.

And that's ignoring the entire question of... you randomly deciding that I'm half policy half scum and then townreading people because of their associatives with me all of a sudden, what?

[RadiantCowbells]

i didn't feel the need to fabricate a legible trajectory for the thread
i reread them spoke with the team and reached a different conclusion
there ya go

All at the point where suddenly earning towncred was more important than having mislynches to push, yes.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean, you did go for towncred. You started clearing slots so that they would take your side instead of mine.
You came back, immediately instigated a 1v1 with me b/c I was voting ari, you really wouldn't have had time to suddenly come up with reasons that they were town and they would be subject to scrutiny.
Like even if you lynch me you know that if you're still sitting around with most of the game in your scumpool that's not going to fly.
So you're in super townspew mode, having eddie cane force interactions with all these random buddies, etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like it's really typical for scum to start suddenly having more townreads under pressure btw: track it across games. They want to make as few enemies as possible.
Duck was trying to at least somewhat close the door to those people voting him and make as many friends as possible to go after me. Despite the fact that I am STILL a claimed investigative.

You think Duck is so anti-town he goes after that D1? C'mon.

[RadiantCowbells]

On the other hand, his associatives with Ari are objectively shit. That much is obvious even to him. So yes, he absolutely goes after me because when I'm gone Bella and Ico are mislynchable again.

[RadiantCowbells]

On the other hand, his associatives with Ari are objectively shit. That much is obvious even to him. So yes, he absolutely goes after me because when I'm gone Bella and Ico are mislynchable again.

[RadiantCowbells]

And frankly, he has much higher odds of lynching me pushing it as policy than a scumread.

[RadiantCowbells]

Raybells assume TW+Ari are scum who are viable thirds

I already answered this question: {Plum/Tris} > {Xtoxm}

I think that everyone else is town at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I'm not misrepresenting you at all.

Like, every statement I'm making is accurate and, like, blatantly accurate.

Is your claimed belief that I'm scum bussing Ari? Then vote him. You'll die D2. You flip town. I die D3. 2 scum in 3 days.
Otherwise? The lion's share of my case doesn't even apply to you because it's based on the assumption that you are required to vote me to forestall the Aristophanes wagon.

There's really no reason to simultaneously refuse to vote Aristophanes, to argue against the associatives presented with him, and to take a really loose scumread that leaves you mileage to vote if needed but not otherwise if you're not his buddy.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, the two things that most set you off weren't me preventing you from giving reads, because that never really happened.
The two times you got set off and said regrettable things were when NSG called you scum, and when I called you scum.
So you claim this narrative that you're going after me because I'm "refusing to let you play the game" when really you just are just set off by the scumread + the vote on Ari.
I think you were perfectly fine to bus Ari if it came to it until I connected the two of you. Now you gotta play hardball.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hell, I was like repeatedly reaching out to you. I wish Duck would interact with me. I wish Duck would engage with me. I am sad because Duck is either scum or refusing to engage with me.

Everyone in this game was making reach out to you after reach out to you and I already lampshaded that earlier in the game and somehow you can't get invested because of me?

[RadiantCowbells]

like fmpov you're getting scummier every time you post

Does this make sense to, like, anyone?

[RadiantCowbells]

it's all like, really clearly pushing ~an agenda~ but you're treating me with just enough negligence that you don't need to slow down and check yourself on any point

What you're really saying when you say I don't need to check myself on any point is that I'm telling the truth
What you're saying is that I genuinely know the game like the back of my hand and I don't need to consult things to know exactly what X person said at X time because I have been reading this game constantly.
Even in the 1 scumgame this year I efforted, hell, throughout my fucking career I have never read a game to the point that I have this level of immersion in the thread. Because there's literally no point.

Like I don't even cite this as a towntell because even as town, even this year where I've tried harder than any other, it's so rare that I go this hard reading and trying to solve that I can cite most of the game from memory.
And I'm pretty sure that you know that and even bringing this up is just, a really questionable decision.

I mean, even compare this to my push on Chesskid last year. I was mostly just spamming the same points. I didn't constantly reference different shit. I didn't have the same clarity.
This is town me, and obviously so, and you would see that, and you as town would care about that fact and not try to "policy lynch" me.

[RadiantCowbells]

And even if you didn't care about that, you'd care about the fact that you're voting a claimed investigative on D1.
Your thought process would be why the fuck deal with this when it's gonna be self resolving and I can easily lynch it later if not.
That would also be Eddie Cane's thought process. That would also be Ankamius's thought process. I doubt Dannflor would support going after me in ANY capacity if you're town.

Hell, even if you think I'm just gonna lolpush a mislynch or two, Aristophanes isn't even a valuable town member! Trading Ari for an easier time against Scum!RC is the easiest trade in the book tbh, no offense Ari you're a sweetheart
So no. this doesn't make sense as town. the way you talk about my game like you know I'm town doesn't make sense as town. your awful associatives with Ari, well.

[RadiantCowbells]

what it means is you're hypertunnelling and not checking yourself at any point; which means you're either so pissed off as town that you're functionally pushing an agenda or you're scum pushing an agenda.

like the rest of that post is the kind of town meta which means either:
- you're town, or
- you're scum who is aware he can use this as a defence

and i don't think either is outside your town or scum range so

i'm just not going to bother going down the rabbit hole

There are a lot of easier ways to win as scum than to literally sit and read the thread to this point in a way I have truly never done nor would ever do due to the complete lack of RoI
not when I'm not an endgame slot because I already claimed investigative.

You just entirely handwaving that as lolmeta isn't town you.

[RadiantCowbells]

all of these things are true ya
as stated like more than once i haven't really had the time to dedicate to sitting down and actively engaging with people in a meaningful way

i've had much more limited blocks of time for site stuff than usual; i've needed to put these into volunteer stuff. i'm never going to use that stuff as an excuse, but stuff i've elected to be held responsible for always comes before a game.

given a couple of weeks my schedule will start to free the fuck up but i literally had so many people saying "yo duck reach out to me" and i was like "...good god what do you WANT from me...." that i just ignored them until i could post more

not sorry for this and i'm not sorry you chose to position me being unavailable as scummy before i was available o.0

Again, you're twisting my words. I said jack shit about your activity. What I said was that you portrayed me as shutting down your investment when I was actively trying to help you get invested.
I -didn't- play my dictator meta. I -didn't- stop you from voting my townreads. I -did- reach out to you and help you. I -did- give you an undeserved townread as a gesture of goodwill.

Nothing that even remotely approaches "you being unavailable is scummy" exists in this discourse and you're making it up to discredit my actual point that trying to PL me here makes no sense.

[RadiantCowbells]

we're not lynching either of u so can we just like ... stop now?

Promise me if Ari flips scum and I'm dead you speedvote TW and never look back and I will stop addressing him and focus on Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like just focus on this one thing: do you agree that his response to my point that I went out of my way to make his game more playable doesn't align with how he's treated me and he falsely claimed I was trying to push him for inactivity?

[RadiantCowbells]

Who picked this fight and why though, Skitter?

TW did it in respond to me trying to lynch Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's frustrating having a meta for being good as scum because if I was anyone else TW would get speedlynched for how blatantly he's misrepresenting my stances and how ridiculous his PL claim is on me but we're being treated as ~equal participants~ in this spat because people can't see that I'm objectively, obviously town and won't actually read into the content to see that one of us is telling the truth and the other is blatantly lying?

this is wise.

It's wise because you can't respond to any of my points because your position fundamentally is broken as town.

[RadiantCowbells]

pedit: i agree i'm becoming more of a 'lategame person', mathb's callout earlier was kinda spiritually healthy

Wow

And it's almost like you could have been given a free pass to D2 to do your ~late game~ things.
It's almost like you could instead of voting me have chosen to sort me based on the Ari flip, which you and several of your teammates have advocated as the correct way to read me.

Trying to lynch me before I can push a single lynch when I'm giving you complete freedom to do anything is not sane, town play.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also you act like you're voting me because of my actions towards you but, again, I gave you pretty much freedom and you turned on me when I started calling you scum with Ari.

[RadiantCowbells]

You've already promised to lynch me if I'm wrong, Skitter.

I want your promise to lynch who I say if I'm right.

[RadiantCowbells]

None of this had to happen if people just treated me like a normal player in the game, btw.
Scum wouldn't feel obligated to use RARA FIGHT THE RC if town players didn't insist on pulling the same bullshit.

Everyone who has ever pulled the shit TW is doing as town is helping to enable this strategy as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Duck what are your top 5 favorites memories on MS?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Duck what are your top 5 favorites memories on MS?

Actually can I open this to the floor? Sorry if this is, like, perpendicular to actually solving but I would like to force inject some positivity.
I don't think 13 posts of memories is going to hurt reading too much and I feel like something uplifting.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also that's a pretty terrible catchup/readslist/whatever so I'm back to thinking it's my girl Tris over my girl Plum.

[RadiantCowbells]

That's fair. Still don't like that you townread the two people I think have highest equity to be your partner. Anyway, just do your catch up.

[RadiantCowbells]

Because I think that the other two people in the list are scum and being 2/3 on scum is pretty okay and I'm not a particularly damaging read to have wrong since I'm going to eat the kill anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't realize that NSG was going to end up being a good player and I feel kinda bad about that. I gave her very little credit for a long time.
I think I even commented to CheekyTeeky once that she was 'the worst townie from 1821' which had Cheeky, NSG, Keychain, and a bunch of people who didn't make the cut.

Who would be the NK in a you+Tw+Ari world?

Ok. If me and TW were doing this kind of scum theatre we'd intend on him... somehow winning the 1v1 tomorrow since he won't be questioned as much.
We would NOT kill Skitter tonight because we want her to turn on me. We wouldn't kill you either for the same reason. Probably Bella because her team has had some scary townreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

She being NSG.

Skitter30 I knew right away was going to be a strong townie: I was very caught off guard by her being a respected scum player but given the caliber of her early scum games I feel like I'm justified in that.
Duckling impressed me right away as scum as well, I'm not sure I especially noticed him as town in the same way. I did say at one point her was the scumplay counterpart of NSG (though not quite as good, obviously imo)
Nancy Drew I saw for the first time on MU and she had fantastic reads as town. A little quieter than she ended up being on MS.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pfft. I definitely talked about you publicly. I even tried to poach you as my newbie instead of Mathdino's. >_>

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm gonna start voting you and all capsing VERY loudly if I don't get those top 5 memories btw

[RadiantCowbells]

i suppose i'll be nice to implosion and give him this pagetop

[RadiantCowbells]

FakeGodLast Monday at 12:35 AM
you heard it here folks
RC is a 32 Con wizard

[RadiantCowbells]

I once policy lynched scum Thor for being super antitown and was surprised when he flipped scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Link this game it seems exciting

God I miss Thor. Thor was my IC when I was a newbie.

[RadiantCowbells]

Driving so I'll bbl

[RadiantCowbells]

How does it feel not being the underdog anymore?

[RadiantCowbells]

I havent left my gosh Skitter what are you accusing me of

I would say not being the underdog is like the worst part of playing mafia but I haven't been the underdog in a very long time so I barely even remember it atp

[RadiantCowbells]

wow

duckling is fine giving ari more time

then ari comes in and posts some super fake stuff

who knew

[RadiantCowbells]

...yeah? super fake?

[RadiantCowbells]

like I can't lynch Duckling who is mod confirmed scum to me and he tried to PL me when I went after you and you come in with the following

Also I finally got a chance to look into this Flopz character and, uh, WTF is their vote on me and, as a follow up, WTF was their posting around that time!?
It is the fakest shit and, like, the most contrived posting I've read in a long time!

It's... really hard to imagine this being a townpost?

[RadiantCowbells]

So, have you read the game or not

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok don't bother just wait till sunday I guess.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're literally just saying stuff fed to you by Duckling at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

the stuff he's saying is like highly public and objectively obvious and you suggesting i'm prompting it is agenda driving for the sake of it -_-

Dude please. I know you're scum, you know I know you're scum. I genuinely don't care if my advantage in thread uptime is perceived as an unfair one by you.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm scumreading no one for inactivity. I'm not scumreading Ari for his inactivity. I'm not scumreading you for having less posting than anyone else. I'm scumreading you for the stuff that you guys say when you're here.
And again, I offered to stop playing and i stopped playing for 24 hours. 6 posts came out. I could still have done that again.

[RadiantCowbells]

The thread isn't breathing when I'm not here though. The thread is on life support and I'm the one pumping oxygen into and out of the lungs.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're busy I'll talk to you sunday.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't want to be contributing to you feeling obligated to post on a weekday when you're this busy so you don't let your scumteam down.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't consider this a moral obligation btw:
I think that really it's on you and Duck to accept you can't put the time in to win this by force and you haven't been towny enough to skate past D1 so you lose, if my read of the overall situation is correct.
But I'm going to do it anyway because... not really sure why, but I'm sure doing it.