Open 781: JK9++ Game Over!

[Menalque]

Oh wait never mind you were never on SS lol

[Menalque]

I also think (pb/fb) is likely to have a scum in it, and then somewhere in (skitt/Blake/Maria/dats/lil) is the other.

is this universe if ss is scum?

This is either way, I haven’t thought too much about what happens if SS flips town because honestly I feel like I’m stuck in a vortex of double guessing and if we don’t lynch SS idk where I wanna shift to

[Menalque]

*waits for Blake to get to the last post in that series

[Menalque]

Can we have a show of hands on who’s town reading lilith please?

[Menalque]

*waits for Blake to get to the last post in that series

Of you scumreading me?

That isn't really news.

Is it not? I feel like me thinking that you’re actually quite likely to be scum is news vs just me not thinking you’ve done anything particularly town indicative

Don’t you want to know why?

[Menalque]

I’m caught in a trap
I can’t get out
Because I need your solves too much baby

Why can’t you see?
What you’re doing to me
Why can’t I trust the reads you give?

[Menalque]

Where have all my good reads gone, long time passing?
Where have all my strong reads gone, long time ago?
Where have all the good reads gone?
WIFOM has ruined them everyone,
Oh, when will I ever learn?
Oh, when will I ever learn?

[Menalque]

*waits for Blake to get to the last post in that series

Of you scumreading me?

That isn't really news.

Is it not? I feel like me thinking that you’re actually quite likely to be scum is news vs just me not thinking you’ve done anything particularly town indicative

Don’t you want to know why?

I'm not really worried about it, no.

Err

Why?

[Menalque]

That turkey has gone super quiet huh

[Menalque]

That turkey has gone super quiet huh

For a medical reason...

Oh right, yes, I forgot momentarily

[Menalque]

*waits for Blake to get to the last post in that series

Of you scumreading me?

That isn't really news.

Is it not? I feel like me thinking that you’re actually quite likely to be scum is news vs just me not thinking you’ve done anything particularly town indicative

Don’t you want to know why?

I'm not really worried about it, no.

Err

Why?

Because I don't get the impression that you're going to deathtunnel over it, and I also believe you're aware that lynching me on day one is not a good idea regardless of my alignment.

There's really no utility in attempting to dissuade you from scumreading me at this time and so I don't feel very compelled to take those steps.

Annoyingly accurate in terms of what I’m not going to do even if not necessarily insightful into what I’m reading as scummy in your play. Although I’ll acknowledge that you didn’t try on the latter point.

My concern is that I feel like you’re managing the game to an outsize extent and that very much fits with what I remember of you saying about how you play as scum from... I wanna say post-apocalypse upick? Idk. But yeah I kinda have an unpleasant feeling that all of (turkey, lilith, S_S) may be town and we’re being setup to be in too awful a position to change up by the time we realise that. But equally yes, lynching you on D1 is very stupid and so I’m kinda conflicted here. I don’t really feel strongly enough about it to want to actually push you especially as I’d then feel doubly stupid if we lost despite following your D1 reads.

[Menalque]

I also think (pb/fb) is likely to have a scum in it, and then somewhere in (skitt/Blake/Maria/dats/lil) is the other.

is this universe if ss is scum?

This is either way, I haven’t thought too much about what happens if SS flips town because honestly I feel like I’m stuck in a vortex of double guessing and if we don’t lynch SS idk where I wanna shift to

ngl i can read this as being a slip that there's only 2 scum
i'm not saying it is but this is the first thing that came to mind when i read this

That’s cool, skitt
Who wanted to lynch skitter again? I’m warming to it

[Menalque]

Like how does that make any sense skitter

[Menalque]

That turkey has gone super quiet huh

he thought he might have had covid but it's apparently ashtma and either way it sounds like he has other priorities atm

It has already been covered that i briefly forgot

[Menalque]

Like how does that make any sense skitter

idk that's the first thing that came to my head given how you worded it
i don't know how that of all things makes you think that i'm scummy

what od you think of pink ball making up reasons to scumread me

If already said that ponk bill is in my “quite likely to be scum” area

How do you see that and think it’s a slip I just don’t see it

Like even if I were scum then I’d be slipping that there’s 3 by knowing that there’s (1) me (2) the scum in (fb/pb) and (3) the scum in the girls

[Menalque]

Also I think it’s kinda disingenuous to imply that that’s the only reason I have to scumread you when I’ve literally been talking about being unsure on you the white day phase thus far and have explained this too

[Menalque]

Also o don’t think pank bell was serious

[Menalque]

It’s possible (fb/pb) is the whole thing IF smart is scum,

I think this should have made it fairly clear that it was a situation taking SS as scum

Especially as it was the following sentence?

Idk your “this read like a slip” seems like a bad faith take to me esp as I think you know that when I’m scum I’m careful about checking my posts and especially so when I’m giving names like that which may or may not contain partners for distancing

[Menalque]

UNVOTE: lilith2013
VOTE: PenguinPower

Interesting

What did you think of Maria and pure boi hard defending his reaction to my scumread as townie in the much earlier game?

Talking of, what did you think of that?

Also talking of, I thought you were just a minute ago saying that lili was still your top scumread, what changed?

[Menalque]

I also think (pb/fb) is likely to have a scum in it, and then somewhere in (skitt/Blake/Maria/dats/lil) is the other.

is this universe if ss is scum?

This is either way, I haven’t thought too much about what happens if SS flips town because honestly I feel like I’m stuck in a vortex of double guessing and if we don’t lynch SS idk where I wanna shift to

i mean it's not like i asked you if you were specifically talking about the scum!ss universe and you declined to answer definitively or anything

this isn't even a push so telling me i'm asking in bad faith when i went out of my way to clarify seems kinda unreasonable

I felt like the initial decision to make the point was as a result of taking the post in bad faith given that I think if you were taking it in good faith you would have picked up on me calling (pb/fb) possibly an entire solve if SS flipped scum

Idk I might be reading too much into it, I don’t really like it and also I don’t totally understand the first sentence in this response

[Menalque]

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Interesting like "PP looks really townie out of it", right?

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Interesting like "PP looks really townie out of it", right?

Mhm.

[Menalque]

I think PenguinPower is a better lynch now.

I feel you’re ignoring the implied <why> here

[Menalque]

Okay I give up I’m just gonna sheep Blake and we’ll see where that gets us

VOTE: PP

[Menalque]

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Interesting like "PP looks really townie out of it", right?

Menaaaa I hope you get vigged thanks. Penguins reaction is the most interesting thing I got out of this though.

Interesting like "PP looks really townie out of it", right?

Mhm.

P sure she means these

[Menalque]

I'd say skitter/Maria/Bingle/S_S are.

Don’t make Blake’s list of priority nightkills or the monkey’s list of scum masterminds, what do I even bother playing for

[Menalque]

Vaguely offended that the monkey thinks that I’d play second fiddle to anyone on a scumteam at this point

I’m not saying I’d fight with any of those names to be in control but it would at least be a collaborative project

[Menalque]

God if I was scum with datisi right now I’d be like double offended and would start try harding the shit out of this game as scum

[Menalque]

I mean I’m just saying that the last 4 scumgames I was in I assumed leadership of the scumteam and we won 2 of those and one of the other ones primarily went wrong because mastina was reading me as sufficiently town that she wanted to masonise me

[Menalque]

Alright then. You're officially on the list.

Better

[Menalque]

Hmm

[Menalque]

Weird kill

[Menalque]

Um

I didn’t? In the words of the great philosopher shaggy “it wasn’t me”

[Menalque]

That’s a very WIFOM kill the more I think about it

[Menalque]

In your memory does skitt normally play for wifom?

[Menalque]

Yeh

[Menalque]

(Datisi, S_S, Maria, lilith, firebringer, A50)
(Bingle, Blake, me, skitter, PP)

[Menalque]

I mean like, that kill is most obviously bad for skitt right

So the question is: is it a kill made by skitt of someone suspecting her very obviously but who wasn’t pushing her lynch when he died OR is it a kill made by someone hoping to get skitt mislynched today off the back of it?

The lists are the two pools of (on wagon) and (off wagon)

[Menalque]

(Skitt, lil, Blake, datisi) - pure boi

[Menalque]

Mena why does that kill point to scum!me exactly?

Because aside from gobble the one person that pb pushes most consistently on D1 was you?

[Menalque]

{chem, ss, datisi, fb, Lilith}

[Menalque]

(Skitt, lil, Blake, datisi) - pure boi

can you please start including explanations along with groups of names you post

{chem, ss, datisi, fb, Lilith}

This is unintentionally much funnier than it was meant to be due to me clicking through the pedit

The first list is the names that I think pure boi was scumreading/unsure on

Second list is the same for gobbles

[Menalque]

?
Are you saying those are people he suspected?
You think that scum!me lolkills pb out of everyone on n1 because he was suspecting me at some point in the day but had backed off and wasnt even pushing me by the end?
Because if so you have a very offbase understanding of how i'd make nks as scum

Pedit i would not have killed pb as scum last night

Well no, not just that. I also think that he’s a lowkey enough kill that he doesn’t make you look obviously scum by like D3/4. Because if you killed off let’s say Blake, then bingle, then me and you were still alive in lylo after having led a bunch of mislynches then I think it would be doable for scum you to survive but much harder

Whereas I think killing someone who had broadly good reads (at least 1?) but wasn’t pushing you at the time of their death, and who wasn’t like a ~*massice presence*~ in thread helps shield you by also leaving unclear who else in those names might be scum instead of you. So he’s a very strategic kill in that sense I think

[Menalque]

i'm p sure i remember ponk bill saying he was literally not even paying attention to my posts and that he has no read on me, but that he will "start now" so

pedit: skitt gobbles is dead already

Yeah I remember that too, but given that he expresses some degree of town on basically everyone else that still makes me think you were probably within his potential pool given that he only actually expressed a scumread on 3 people

[Menalque]

That's not how scum!me would have approached the nk last night. High-key threats cirst, and that logic would have been more appropriate like n3 or n4 or so.

Yes but highkey threats are exactly the people who you’d be competing with later in the WIFOM olympics of “why is X still alive?”

[Menalque]

Like let’s say the NKs were like Blake -> bingle -> me -> pure boi

That would be much more questionable for you imo, whereas if you were to reverse it, provided that bingle/Blake didn’t have enough traction to actually lynch scum in the meantime then it would act as a huge shield for you in the lategame and give you better mislynch targets

[Menalque]

i'm p sure i remember ponk bill saying he was literally not even paying attention to my posts and that he has no read on me, but that he will "start now" so

pedit: skitt gobbles is dead already

Yeah I remember that too, but given that he expresses some degree of town on basically everyone else that still makes me think you were probably within his potential pool given that he only actually expressed a scumread on 3 people

mhm?

1778

[Menalque]

i'm p sure i remember ponk bill saying he was literally not even paying attention to my posts and that he has no read on me, but that he will "start now" so

pedit: skitt gobbles is dead already

Yeah I remember that too, but given that he expresses some degree of town on basically everyone else that still makes me think you were probably within his potential pool given that he only actually expressed a scumread on 3 people

mhm?

1778

i'm not questioning your sources, i'm asking what that information means to you

The information means that I now know that I can trust pb (sorry I doubted u) and so I’m interested in knowing who he thought was scum

[Menalque]

I dont think bingle is a high priority nk for me either

This just isnt really how i think about making nks. First high-key threats, and then i finetune the gamestate on later nights based on people's reads. High-key threats go first tho, and pb just isnt one to scum!me

This is frustrating

Who would be a high priority NK for you then?

[Menalque]

The information means that I now know that I can trust pb (sorry I doubted u) and so I’m interested in knowing who he thought was scum

stop playing around, you know what i'm asking. you did that for pb and gobble, my name overlaps. give some conclusions what that means to you

Okay, it’s somewhat concerning but also I kind of think you’d kill me or skitter if you were scum on N1 because if I remember right you play scum quite solidly. Tbh I think I’m more interested in lilith today off the back of their reads than you

[Menalque]

I dont think bingle is a high priority nk for me either

This just isnt really how i think about making nks. First high-key threats, and then i finetune the gamestate on later nights based on people's reads. High-key threats go first tho, and pb just isnt one to scum!me

This is frustrating

Who would be a high priority NK for you then?

You or ank

Hmm. Why me?

[Menalque]

You're one of the best people at reading me in this pl

I don’t feel like it right now lol

[Menalque]

The information means that I now know that I can trust pb (sorry I doubted u) and so I’m interested in knowing who he thought was scum

stop playing around, you know what i'm asking. you did that for pb and gobble, my name overlaps. give some conclusions what that means to you

Okay, it’s somewhat concerning but also I kind of think you’d kill me or skitter if you were scum on N1 because

if I remember right you play scum quite solidly

. Tbh I think I’m more interested in lilith today off the back of their reads than you

what does this mean in this context?

As in: you don’t tend naturally towards making WIFOM moves when you could do something that’s more likely to just safely help your wincon

[Menalque]

I want to wagon lilith I think

VOTE: lilith

[Menalque]

Datisi, skitter, firebringer, PP you should sheep me on lilith

[Menalque]

Stronger counterargument firewoofer

[Menalque]

Lilith is a better lynch today than S_S

[Menalque]

ur your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries

Oh yeah? Well I fart in your general direction!

[Menalque]

what's your thoughts on s_s again mena?

I kind of have bad jeebies about it. I started preferring him yesterday to gobbles but now I kind of think (based on skitt and firebringer opening) that he’s meant to be the designated mislynch for today. I don’t have a very strong read there, but lilith is someone I’m not great at reading, who crops up in the scumlists of 2 players who are now flipped town and who I think have generally good reads, and is the best proxy for Blake who thinks lil is scum but who is only lukewarm on S_S

[Menalque]

To be clear, that’s not me saying that firebringer and skitt are scum who have entered the day pushing him (although I’m not saying neither of them is scum either) but more that I get the inclination to go “hey S_S should have been lynched yesterday, he was the counterwagon to gobbles, we should lynch him today”

[Menalque]

^started typing that before you posted

I think there’s probably a scum in (bingle, skitt, Blake, PP)

[Menalque]

Possibly 2 scum

[Menalque]

I’m not saying that’s what you’re saying? I’m saying that I think that’s a pretty natural feeling to have as town and I think that scum are likely to capitalise on that to push S_S unless you now think A50 is scum. Because it was town who was heavily lobbying for the gobbles lynch (as confirmed by pb dying) and it didn’t feel like the gobbles wagon was being pushed hard enough to be CW to scum and the hammer kinda came from nowhere

[Menalque]

That “inclination to want to lynch the CW” is something I initially had and I extrapolated from there to “this is a natural town reaction to have” which was then further confirmed by your and fb’s votes

---

Spoiler: Mod VC

Something_Smart [2]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424]

lilith2013 [1]:

Menalque [2433]

Not Voting [8]:

Bingle, MariaR, Something_Smart, lilith2013, PenguinPower, Almost50, Blake Belladonna, Datisi

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.

[Menalque]

I think there’s probably a scum in (bingle, skitt, Blake, PP)

how did bingle end up here?

It’s the offwagon group from yesterday minus me?

[Menalque]

Can you vote lilith please

[Menalque]

I think there’s probably a scum in (bingle, skitt, Blake, PP)

how did bingle end up here?

Also the same exact logic that I applied to why skitt might kill pb applies to Blake or bingle (somewhat less for bingle because I think pb was less suspicious of him) but that idea of preserving other players who would be expected to eat a NK in order to create cover for you being scum fits with them (or me from an outside pov) too

[Menalque]

Why did you hammer so early A50? Also can you vote lilith please

[Menalque]

I think there’s probably a scum in (bingle, skitt, Blake, PP)

how did bingle end up here?

It’s the offwagon group from yesterday minus me?

huh
i thought those were SRs or something

Can you vote lilith please

give me a tl;dr again
sorry i'm slow today but

No, I actually need to figure out what my reads are post-flip

Lilith: strongly suspected by 2 conftown. On wagon in a passive manner (I think, should double check), Blake had her as her top scumpick for most of yesterday and she is therefore a reasonable proxy for reading Blake (wherein green!lilith indicates scum!blake and scum!likith is somewhat town indicative for Blake, at least enough to sheep her on her other top scumread)

[Menalque]

That’s a bold claim for skitt to be making here if she’s SK, not that it makes it impossible

[Menalque]

Hmm, does scum!skitt ever claim vig here and then try to explain a missing NK every night until she gets lynched? I feel like the answer is probably not and also I kind of doubt scum let vig!skitt live multiple nights due to the strength of her reads and that even as SK she would have to turn on them I think tonight if she wanted to win

---

Spoiler: Mod VC

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Datisi [2465], Almost50 [2467], PenguinPower [2470]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [2]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424]

Not Voting [5]:

Bingle, MariaR, Something_Smart, lilith2013, Blake Belladonna

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.

[Menalque]

Inb4 skitter retracts and claims VT at like 5 days to deadline (love u turkey)

[Menalque]

Okay, so taking it as given that skitter is a vig, that means that we’re in a setup with at least 2 tpr right? So we’re looking for setups which are TTTTT or lower for scum power

[Menalque]

menaaaaaaaa don't make me start scumreading youuuu

Huh

What?

[Menalque]

no, it's theoretically possible there's 6T and 1K

pedit: @mena's post about setup

Okay but my point is that assuming skitt is being honest for now, we’re moving very close to a situation where scum are unlikely to have a bus driver

Also what did you mean about making you scumread me?

[Menalque]

menaaaaaaaa don't make me start scumreading youuuu

Huh

What?

i'm really not vibin with 2522 and 2525

pedit: right that is a thing that maybe happened

In what sense?

[Menalque]

y no bus driver?

Because at 3 TPR it switches to a JOAT and doesn’t change back until you get to like 5 TPRs in the game

[Menalque]

Like 4 Ts or 3Ts are the most likely outcomes, yes? I’m pretty sure bingle/ddl ran the math on that in C9++

So if we’ve ruled out that we’re in 7 or 6 Ts and we know that 0 or 1 Ts are unlikely, it means that unless we’re in 2 or 5 there’s no bus driver

[Menalque]

i mean we don't know if those other prs dont' exist yet, we wouldn't exactly see the outcome of those actions

Unless we’re in a 5T scenario I think it’s unlikely we have a bus driver

[Menalque]

idk they sound like those convoluted "hmm i wonder if this is happening" posts that scum!mena makes

Well err, they’re not? They’re me trying to work through the new information that we supposedly have a town vig and whether I think skitt would claim that as SK or as groupscum at this point in the game

[Menalque]

and i need people to help me optimize who to vig except i'll probably only listen to the people i townread

I mean... S_S would probably have been a better choice than PB and honestly that’s the biggest thing that concerns me about this

[Menalque]

the word 'the' also belies that she believes that there's an sk (it should not be obvious to anyone right now that there's a second source of kills - except to me and the mafia)

I definitely remember having seen this logic elsewhere but I can’t remember if it was accurate or not. Might have been in C9++ or somewhere else

[Menalque]

In your memory does skitt normally play for wifom?

I'm curious why you asked this at this specific point.

Basically: PB is a weird NK for scum to make —> he was pushing skitter aside from gobble and it’s weird because he was definitely mislynchable + he was a key proponent of the (ultimately town) gobble wagon —> would skitter kill someone who looks obviously bad for her to kill if she’s scum? —> skitter is strong as scum so she probably doesn’t kill that person directly or immediately —> but she might kill them for wifom based on the assumption that people wouldn’t expect a strong scum player to just directly kill the person who suspected them most —> does skitter normally go in for wifom when she’s scum?

[Menalque]

Yeah, you were around

[Menalque]

meh

what's your read on skitt independent of her claim?

Towards scum I guess? But I’m not sure

I kinda wanna read back through her posts and see if they make sense from the mindset of her being a vig

[Menalque]

I like that she didn’t out on D1 if she is because I was kinda hoping that someone would vig gobbles but didn’t want to take the chance on bringing it up

[Menalque]

I like that she didn’t out on D1 if she is because I was kinda hoping that someone would vig gobbles but didn’t want to take the chance on bringing it up

i mean i was going to but you lot decided we couldn't go that route so like

also note how i asked gobbles when he first claimed sk whether he picked being bp or not

Yes I did note that and figured why you were doing it it just didn’t put me on you as the vig

[Menalque]

I assume you didn’t crumb?

[Menalque]

No, I actually need to figure out what my reads are post-flip

can you figure out your read on me post-flip pls

VOTE: lilith

oh yeah, when you get to it, have you made your way (or whatever the expression was) through the scum PT of BnS and if so were there any conclusions from that

oh yeah i forgot about this lmao @mena

Didn’t finish it yet no

I never read up extra in night phases because I always feel like it will have been a wasted effort if I die

[Menalque]

i don't really do crumbs

Yeah I know, that’s why I said I assume you didnt

[Menalque]

Who do you want to lynch today Blake?

---

Spoiler: Mod VC

lilith2013 [4]:

Menalque [2433], Datisi [2465], Almost50 [2467], PenguinPower [2470]

-- [L-2]

Something_Smart [2]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424]

Not Voting [5]:

Bingle, MariaR, Something_Smart, lilith2013, Blake Belladonna

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.

[Menalque]

I’m trying to decide if a scumteam with skitter and Blake would consider doing something as outrageous as claiming the nightkill as a vig shot and then trying to spot the idea that Blake was protected from a NK with the idea that the final member claims doc when the time comes

I think this is unlikely. Okay, so if skitter!notgroupscum, then we have (Blake, bingle, PP). Blake/bingle is something Blake is interested in making Not A Thing and I see her point in that if I were scum I’d still probably kill her first. Need to check if my bingle read is secure because if it is that’s PP!scum but I’m not sure that sits right with me either unless like Maria is scum maybe? And pb got it wrong in his hard TR there

Or I guess it’s possible all scum were on wagon yesterday, only that also seems unlikely, as 3 in (datisi, mariaR, lilith, firebringer, A50, S_S) also seems wrong

[Menalque]

I think I still wanna vote lilith and then if she’s green and tomorrow rolls around and Blake is still here lynch Blake, if lilith reds then either sheep Blake again or if she’s dead lynch PP?

[Menalque]

Blake, skitt — what do you think of firebringer and Maria?

[Menalque]

ok this is gonna sound weird but during the Night i had a dream that mena murdered me because he's scum

explain yourself young man

This sort of seems to me like a post datisi mightn’t make if she were scum?
I think I’m townreading datisi

[Menalque]

I see her point in that if I were scum I’d still probably kill her first

I never said this.

That statement was specifically regarding Bingle. I don't necessarily believe this is the case of anybody else in this playerlist.

No I mean

I see your point about bingle probably still killing you

Because were I scum you would absolutely be my top NK, followed closely by skitt/bingle depending on how hard bingle was trying and whether I’d managed to pocket skitt or not

[Menalque]

i would like to demote blake from 'maybe town' to 'idk' tho

That’s interesting, I feel happier about Blake!town today even if I don’t think she’s broken range

[Menalque]

i don't want the day to end like before i talk to a50 about who he thinks i ought to kill
and mena that scenario is lowkey ridiculous, sorry

i'm p confident there's at least one scum in the original gobbles wagon, as well as the final gobbles wagon, so i'd like to concentrate there

(S_S, mariaR, fire) if lilith reds?

[Menalque]

ok this is gonna sound weird but during the Night i had a dream that mena murdered me because he's scum

explain yourself young man

This sort of seems to me like a post datisi mightn’t make if she were scum?
I think I’m townreading datisi

please don't tell me this is like the main reason you're townreading me

I also copped you and it came back green so it’s kind of a mix of the two

[Menalque]

before

i talk to a50

I mean yeah, I just figured you would also take my feedback on this?

[Menalque]

@blake you think every scum got onto the gobbles wagon yesterday?

[Menalque]

while i always appreciate The Memes, i would like a bit more Serious answer as that answer is once again making me uneasy

Listen dats I can’t put it as much more than I think you’re town at the moment and I can’t say if and or when that is liable to change but for now I think you are

And I don’t know if that’s because i feel like you’re posting like yourself or because of tone or whatever, and so yes a post like that one features as a part of that but not it’s not the basis of my entire read on you

You just feel natural today in a way I didn’t think you felt yesterday

Have all my reservations disappeared? No. I don’t like that you didn’t change vote in over a thousand posts or that both gobbles and pb saw you as conceivably scum, also if there’s a missing NK it could have been on me (tbh I doubt it tho and think it’s more likely it was on Blake or skitt if they’re both town) which might explain my not being dead in a PL with you, or you might have not decided to target me because you know I’ve not been on my game so much recently and so the idea of playing scum against me no longer worries you or you want la revancha for one of the games where I was scum and you were town. Idk

I just think you’re town atm

[Menalque]

I definitely think skitter could claim vig as a serial killer and honestly it almost twigs me more that she did it at a time that seemed hella town motivated rather than as a self-preservation thing

But equally playing the numbers I think overall it’s better for serial killer skitt to just stay quiet as i wasn’t actually pushing for her lynch even if I was pushing on her a bit at start of day, and clarifying that there’s a missing nk so there isn’t a lot of bad speculation on why scum killed pb seems v protown

[Menalque]

Ahh I’d forgotten how paranoid skitter could make me lmao

[Menalque]

Datisi, skitter - town
Blake, bingle
A50 - townlean
S_S - null
Firebringer, mariaR, PP - nullscum
Lilith - scum

[Menalque]

mena i'm kinda just writing off everything you're saying as paranoia because it's close to impossible for me to play this more pro-town than i have and i think p much no matter what i did or said if i claimed vig you'd inform me i could be sk so there's not much more i can really do here i think

Yes I think it probably is but u know that I kind of have to work through this on my own to feel comfortable with the slight twinge in the side of my belly that all may not be right

[Menalque]

ok i'm gonna take a break from this game for a few hours and maybe take a nap because ~a realisation~ is slowly seeping in and i need to clear my head

This feels like what datisi normally says before she starts scumreading me

[Menalque]

Datisi, skitter - town
Blake, bingle
A50 - townlean
S_S - null
Firebringer, mariaR, PP - nullscum
Lilith - scum

I think this is /probably/ very right or very wrong and there’s only one way to find out!

[Menalque]

https://imgflip.com/i/45btzw

I couldn’t make it appear using the normal img tags but pls enjoy this meme I made

[Menalque]

ok i'm gonna take a break from this game for a few hours and maybe take a nap because ~a realisation~ is slowly seeping in and i need to clear my head

This feels like what datisi normally says before she starts scumreading me

correctly or incorrectly?

:rolleyes:

[Menalque]

denied

I just want you to know that I knew it was there and I left it for you

[Menalque]

I kinda think either we have a solve or there’s like the entire scumteam in (bingle, Blake, skitter, A50) and the game is deeply fucked

---

Spoiler: Mod VC

lilith2013 [3]:

Menalque [2433], Almost50 [2467], PenguinPower [2470]

Something_Smart [2]:

skitter30 [2389], Firebringer [2424]

Not Voting [6]:

Bingle, MariaR, Something_Smart, lilith2013, Blake Belladonna, Datisi [2585]

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to hammer.

[Menalque]

are we wagoning smart yet

im still running on low sleep i haven't read anything since i took my long nap

No we’re still lynching lilith

[Menalque]

Stay the course, skitter, S_S can wait to be vigged tonight or lynched tomorrow

[Menalque]

I kinda think either we have a solve or there’s like the entire scumteam in (bingle, Blake, skitter, A50) and the game is deeply fucked

*ahem*

I’m trying *very* hard to not get paranoid about you and I’d appreciate it if you didn’t make that harder

[Menalque]

Stay the course, skitter, S_S can wait to be vigged tonight or lynched tomorrow

i'm not entirely sure why we're prioritizing lilith over ss
and in most universes i just die tonight and then i think this push fades into the ether, no?

I promise you that if we lynch S_S today and you don’t succeed in vigging him tonight then I will see it through*





*unless you flip SK

[Menalque]

I kinda think either we have a solve or there’s like the entire scumteam in (bingle, Blake, skitter, A50) and the game is deeply fucked

You just need to explain why and Maria are both still alive if any combination of that pool is scum together.

Why who and Maria are still alive?

[Menalque]

Mine

[Menalque]

i'm just oFfEnDeD i'm not included in "game is deeply fucked if this person is scum" pool

am i making you paranoid?

pedit: holy fuck the posts
this is @mena

You haven’t been participating in the like mutual townreading and asking for advice and saying each other are town of that block of names tho
Also

sToP

[Menalque]

I promise you that if we lynch S_S today and you don’t succeed in vigging him tonight then I will see it through*

do you mean lynch ss?
is there any universe where they're tvt?

also fire's reads also kinda molding themselves are mine is weird

Yes, I mean lynch lilith

Err idk maybe but the easiest way to check that is flipping them both and it doesn’t feel likely?

[Menalque]

Again, I’m kinda thinking if *both* of them are town things are /very/ wrong not just a bit wrong so I think flipping them first and then going from there is best

We still have one mislynch left even if we have 2 kills tonight right?

[Menalque]

i've called literally every person in that block town and 3/4 are townreading me tf you on about

Idk it doesn’t feel cliquey idk what u want from me

[Menalque]

Like I feel like you may be townreading them but you haven’t been making posts like “I can’t see skitter claiming vig if she’s anything other than the vig” or bingle going on about how he wouldn’t have killed PB either

[Menalque]

the thought did cross my mind that you're agreeing with me to chain mislynches in {lilith/ss}
and i feel like if i could barely get the wagon up to like l-5 yesterday and there's 2 votes on him today (including mine!) i'm not sure how it will have more traction when i'm not here

I think lilith is a much better proxy for Blake, the two dead townies both thought she was scum, she’s seen a surprising level of resistance throughout the game so far

Idk I don’t feel like you’ve been seriously wagon building on S_S and if you did I think you’d have more votes there?

[Menalque]

Imagine writing in pedits instead of just clicking through them to boost that post count up

[Menalque]

Idk I don’t feel like you’ve been seriously wagon building on S_S and if you did I think you’d have more votes there?

this is dumb

Why is this dumb firebringer?

[Menalque]

ok can you then review why scum!bingle kills you first here?

She's wrong, btw.

I would probably kill her exactly second for this reason. I'm strong enough as as scum to survive Blake for a couple days, and I'd bet on her knowing I fear her to pocket her.

I can explain why scum me wouldn't kill PB, even if that's a pretty irrelevant point.

I probably would have taken out PP as a tough mislynch (if I liked where my partners were, game state wise) or Mena as a way to shake things up and take control of the thread (if I thought my partners were in danger).

I think you’d only kill me if I were right tbh

[Menalque]

... i've been loudly trying to wagon him since like post 600 ...
one thing that i'm baffled by blake rn is after my first thing with ss she thought there was scum in {me, ss} but since she thinks i'm town i would then expect her to go to scum!ss

like there's literally no universe where you can say in good faith that i haven't been trying to wagon ss, taht's like literally all i've been trying to do for the past 80 pages or so

I don’t think I’ve seen you ask people to vote with you that much? Like you’ve been saying why you wanna lynch S_S but you haven’t been (I don’t think) asking individual players or groups of players to vote with you that much and then following up with them if they’re hesitant to try to get them to vote there. I think you’re kinda doing it with me now, but I don’t think you’ve done that specifically that much and that’s what I mean by “wagon building”

[Menalque]

and yes the lack of more votes is part of what's weird about it ... we agree that i'm town and if i'm loudly pushing a mislynch don't you think that scum would have joined this push by now?

If we lynch SS tonight will you promise to shoot in a pool that contains lil?

[Menalque]

Idk I don’t feel like you’ve been seriously wagon building on S_S and if you did I think you’d have more votes there?

this is dumb

Why is this dumb firebringer?

because ur using circular reasoning.

if X to happen Y were to happen, but for Y to happen X would have had to.
Like come on.

Nah I don’t see it my G

If skitter were trying harder to wagon build there would be more votes on SS

There would be more votes on SS if skitter has been trying harder to wagon build

I see no problem with the logic of this statement so if there is maybe I am dumb but it feels a lot like the same argument just stated two ways instead of circular reasoning

[Menalque]

I find it highly amusing how many players are expressing that I'm either a scumread or a PoE read, and yet nobody has tried to wagon me yet.

What's amusing about that? It's not like people can only have one scumread.

Hey S_S what are your reads and what do you make of what’s happening atm?

[Menalque]

I read A50 as town on play but I think that hammer was pretty bad and so that bumps him down a bit. I think he probably is the sort of player who’d risk a bit of towncred to get a quickhammer off, esp if S_S does end up flipping scum

[Menalque]

I don’t think I’ve seen you ask people to vote with you that much? Like you’ve been saying why you wanna lynch S_S but you haven’t been (I don’t think) asking individual players or groups of players to vote with you that much and then following up with them if they’re hesitant to try to get them to vote there. I think you’re kinda doing it with me now, but I don’t think you’ve done that specifically that much and that’s what I mean by “wagon building”

i mean i've been presenting why i think ss is scum and why i think the person people are voting is town but ok

Okay, yeah I’d agree with that, I just don’t explicitly consider that to be wagon building?

If you’re now thinking lilith is scum then what do you make of the fact that she’s also seen a lot of resistance both D1 and today?

[Menalque]

Bingle who do you wanna lynch today?

[Menalque]

Skitter why don’t you tr bingleboi

[Menalque]

I kinda think his spat with me on D1 was towny in hindsight

[Menalque]

I kinda think his spat with me on D1 was towny in hindsight

Could you remind me why you think that spat was townie on his end?

@mariar he wasnt close to being lynched

I’ll take another look at his posting there but if memory serves the basis was that his counterpush on me was bad in a way that I think scum!bingle hopefully would have recognised was bad whereas I can see town bingle getting locked in on me pushing him being scummy and grasping to make the arguments he was

[Menalque]

he wasn't close to being lynched at any point imo

lilith what do you think of the wagon on you?

I think he was close to being lynched instead of gobbles if A50 hasn’t hammered

[Menalque]

seems pretty hungry to lynch me and SS in succession regardless of what we flip. i don’t think that’s a town thought process. surely if he sees me flip town that would make him reconsider SS?

I mean yeah, because I think you’re scum? I don’t necessarily want to lynch you both in succession so much as I want you both dead because I think it’s likely there’s scum in your two names. Ideally skitter can just vig one of you tonight meaning we can move onto re-examining the townbloc if neither of you do flip scum.

Why would you flipping town mean S_S!town?

[Menalque]

Lilith's interactions leading up to skitter's claim look pretty awful but I think the fact that she's receiving pressure over me makes her town unless the scum are really bus-happy.

i don't understand why being pressured more than you would make her town unless you were scum?
and i'm assuming you're not arguign that you're scum here

If she were scum then scum would probably be making more of an effort to shift the wagon off of her and onto me.

@skitt

[Menalque]

does anybody want to talk with me about whether they think lilith/ss can be svs?

Sure, I think they could be

[Menalque]

i guess i'm wondering if scum go that far to defend a partner

Depends on the scum? I’ve tried to defend scumbuddies before pretty hard and have gotten away with it on some occasions because ScUm wOuLdn’T dO tHaT

[Menalque]

i'm gonna go reread an old newbie to maybe get Enlightened

VOTE: firebringer

Why this and how is this helpful

Also did you finish having your realisation after your nap and do you wanna share what it was

[Menalque]

Well I mean I don’t have a problem with you scumreading firebringer but does this mean you think SS/lil are T/T? Because if you don’t then I really don’t see how it’s helpful to be off either wagon and focussing attention away from something that does need to be resolved.

If you think they’re both town and wanna case that I’ll listen but if not then you should choose which one is scummier and vote there

[Menalque]

Why are you assuming that the game will go to lylo? Why do you think the current solve pool is wrong? Do you think that even?

[Menalque]

Let me put that differently: do you think that there is scum in (you, me, skitt, Blake, bingle, A50)? Because if not we’re in a pretty good position to not even necessarily go to lylo and I think it’s quite possible we have competing scum wagons today

[Menalque]

Explain your firebringer read to me and why you think your vote is more productive on him than on S_S or lilith?

[Menalque]

Okay that’s fine, I should really go and take a shower soon

I mean yes, I’m aware of that, but please try to remember that sometimes it /is/ that easy and you end up talking yourself out of good reads because you get locked into a circle of doubting yourself

[Menalque]

Those three posts pinged, your fluff to content ratio seems abnormally high, and your 'attempt to read' datisi feels more like an attempt to justify a scumread than a legitimate attempt to read datisi. If, as you argue, you have a good history of accurately locktowning datisi when/if she starts engaging thoroughly with the thread I would expect town you to try to get datisi to engage over other players, not dismiss her and call her scum while she's posting in a manner that you have not argued you can read well.

Like I thought this was a really bad take on what was happening but then multiple people (incl. datisi) said they thought it was in good faith so I decided I was probably reading too much into a genuine (if bad) attempt to sort me from bingle

[Menalque]

I still think bingleboi’s argument there was weak but not sure that’s scum indicative for him?

[Menalque]

ik you earlier said that i often don't give you the benefit of the doubt which is i guess true but like it feels as if you're trying to force me to vote in lili/s_s?

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m doing and I don’t think I’ve been subtle about that? I mean I think “force” is maybe a little harsh but “strongly attempt to persuade you to vote in those two names” would be accurate

[Menalque]

Hmm, idk if the game seems solved, but I guess I think there’s a reasonable chance the game is close to solved and so I wanna lynch in the <solved game> pool before getting paranoid about deepwolves and re-examining the townbloc. Like if lilith and S_S are both town then I would support dismantling the townbloc as it exists and checking everyone in it. But given that PB was killed by the vig we’re missing the info of a scumkill and the gobbles lynch was essentially low info other than I think it was a safe lynch for scum to be on and would expect a fairly high concentration there. So I’d like to lynch one of the two players who seem to be hard to get a lynch going on and who if they are both scum means that the townbloc can continue another day or two while we check through the other names in the PoE.

I don’t really feel like something is wrong beyond the general sense of paranoia that comes on from the gamestate seeming to actually be okay, and I don’t see why it can’t be the case that this is just town having cohesion and finding one another especially given the general strength of the PL.

Without strong reasons to think that lil/S_S are town/town I’m not interested in letting that fester along until later days. Look at mini normal 2119 where as scum I deliberately tried to shift things off micc because I wanted him around in lategame and managed to get him mislynched despite him being *mechanically cleared*.

I don’t see the advantage of paranoiaing over the game seeming too easy or over a deepwolf before actually checking our work is what I guess I’m trying to say, and the only way to check our work as of now is flipping in lilith/S_S and seeing if they’re scum

[Menalque]

i feel like ss's and lilith's defenses of each other are Very Strange and that there's likely at least one scum in the pair because it's just ... a strange take? idk it almost sounds like it's written from a scum perspective

Yes

[Menalque]

@dats 2800 was the response to your longer post if that wasn’t obvious already

[Menalque]

mena if we lynch lilith today would you canvas for ss tomorrow irregardless of lilith's alignment if i die?

and bingle's argument was kinda bad and like making a mountain out of a molehill kinda? or focusing on the wrong things? idk it felt weird to me

I’d much rather you just shot him tbh

I probably would but if lil is town and scum manage to kill tonight and you mis-shoot or we are in a world with a bus driver (still think that’s unlikely) I’d have to consider whether he’d been bus driven just to set him as the mylo mislynch

So I guess probably but I imagine I’d be worried about him being the lylo mislynch so I don’t wanna say that 100% of the time I would.

If lil flips scum then I would push for him tomorrow if he’s still alive as I don’t think we could be in mylo then

I just don’t see the need to worry too much about bingle for now while there seem to be much better candidates for scum to be sorted. Unless you think the townbloc is majorly wrong I think it’s okay to allow it to exist without needing to double check the members pre-flips

I’d reconsider bingle and what you’ve said if S_S/lil were both town

[Menalque]

i think there's at least one scum in ss/lilith but i'm also a little wary that you're townblocking people too fast

I don’t think I’m forcing it, but am I wrong in what I’m saying? I think I’m just giving a name to it while it had already more or less happened

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:
this is dumb

like either the solve is exactly {s_s, lili, maybe maria} or there's some bs going on because so far everyone is kinda fine? with it?

Wouldn’t rule out PP or fb but yeah this seems pretty right for now

[Menalque]

did you guys know i hate mafia

Trust telling is illegal datisi

[Menalque]

(Joking about that being an actual trust tell, obviously)

[Menalque]

But conspicuously lilith and S_S are not voting. Is it not impossible, but is it even implausible to say that they’ve had weird interactions and been defensive of each other, they’re both scum and the reason people are happy with either is because scum don’t want to stand out by collectively pushing a third townie as a read but town are torn over which one is more likely to be scum and that’s why the votes are split like this

Obviously that’s possible, but I actually think that’s fairly plausible

[Menalque]

i guess i'm not super content with townblocking bingle and blake rn so i'm feeling like ~ cautious ~ of you trying to do that

What’s your objection on Blake? I thought you were TRing her as of a few pages ago but with some paranoia that she was pocketing you with her reads

[Menalque]

But conspicuously lilith and S_S are not voting. Is it not impossible, but is it even implausible to say that they’ve had weird interactions and been defensive of each other, they’re both scum and the reason people are happy with either is because scum don’t want to stand out by collectively pushing a third townie as a read but town are torn over which one is more likely to be scum and that’s why the votes are split like this

Obviously that’s possible, but I actually think that’s fairly plausible

I'm not sure how much you've played with scum-me under pressure but I can tell you that if my partner and I were the two main wagons I would be bussing the pants off of them, not being wishy-washy.

I think this is possible but not my experience. I actually remember you really struggling to make a decision on whether to bus your partner (Pine) in Added to the Group Chat when I forced you to choose between bussing him or saving him. I also think it’s hard for you to immediately bus lilith in this game state due to your prior expressed read on her which would create a lot of dissonance but I think your recent “uncertainty” is you starting to try to create enough room to allow you to bus later on

[Menalque]

i'm feeling paranoid of blake. like she's not in my lynch pool rn but i don't feel comfortable townblocking her either

Would you feel better if lilith reds?

[Menalque]

i'm not scumreading mena even though something is telling me i should and i don't know what to do

Is it going to help to talk about it with me or nah?

[Menalque]

Maybe talk to skitt or Blake or one of the other people townreading me if you’re not sure you should be

[Menalque]

ss this might be a weird thing to say but i'm gettng me/titus vibes from you/lilith rn

What does this mean, sorry?

[Menalque]

I think this is possible but not my experience. I actually remember you really struggling to make a decision on whether to bus your partner (Pine) in Added to the Group Chat when I forced you to choose between bussing him or saving him.

The difference is I wasn't under pressure there, I was fairly townread and I was debating whether or not I could use that trust to shield him.

True, but I think that in this scenario there’s also the mitigating factor of your prior read on lilith making it hard for you to suddenly shift to bussing if you were on a “mutual townreads” course earlier on. Also if I remember right there was a mitigating factor in that game of pine having claimed tracker to save himself

[Menalque]

i'm not scumreading mena even though something is telling me i should and i don't know what to do

Is it going to help to talk about it with me or nah?

maybe
i don't know
you feel weird
but idk if i can slap a scum sticker on you

Okay, how do I feel weird

Like in what sense do I feel weird

[Menalque]

If I feel weird in a “trying to force the gamestate” one way that’s because that is exactly what I’m doing, yes. If you think I’m trying to do it in a scummy way or for scummy motivations then you should scumread me for it and try to remember in future that me trying to control the game is not a good way to read me unless you think it’s for clearly scummy reasons

[Menalque]

If I feel weird in a “trying to force the gamestate” one way that’s because that is exactly what I’m doing, yes. If you think I’m trying to do it in a scummy way or for scummy motivations then you should scumread me for it and try to remember in future that me trying to control the game is not a good way to read me unless you think it’s for clearly scummy reasons

i mean yeah i guess you feel weird because trying to shift the gamestate

that's why i said i don't think i can genuinely call you scum here
but i can't keep quiet about it becuase you know i gotta get out all my paranoia out at some goddamn point
so i'm aware i'm kinda just screaming in the wind here but

also why does that feel low-key condescending bc like i'm genuinely trying here

I don’t find it condescending

Like datisi, I’m gonna say the same thing pure boi said to me: if you feel like you need to scumread me, scumread me, as hopefully that’s the best way for you to finally be able to get to reliable reads on me. Like I think initially you tended to townread me because you (I think?) wanted me to be town. Now I think you’re in a phase of tending to scumread me because you’ve played a couple of times against me as scum where you had it right and points but ultimately came off me again or whatever

I don’t think you should be scumreading me because I think I’m verging on being out of my scumrange but if you need to then go for it I guess

[Menalque]

I’d like us to get to a point where even if one of us is scum we don’t have to start off every game fighting or mutually scumreading each other as a pattern, or one scumreading the other because it’s really tiresome tbh

[Menalque]

True, but I think that in this scenario there’s also the mitigating factor of your prior read on lilith making it hard for you to suddenly shift to bussing if you were on a “mutual townreads” course earlier on.

I don't think it would be hard for me to shift to bussing, I never had lilith as more than a light townread and they were based on very early things.

I will reread your posts and think about it a bit later, not right now

[Menalque]

the titus thing was kinda impulsive and i just kinda ran with it and strengthened it when i realized it was screwing with the gamestate that much

my partner in this scumgame was a lilith/ss hydra (hence i know they'd get the reference)
titus was hard townreading my slot and so i started hard-townreading her for like 2 whole game days and it thoroughly messed with the gamestate because everyone was convinced there was at least one (maybe two) scum in the pair but it somehow created enough force to prevent people from actually lynching either of us

Oh right, the city planners game from NSG right

Okay, what do you make of S_S saying he hasn’t been hard townreading lil and that’s it’s more from her end towards him? And the implication of that on the feeling you have

[Menalque]

i think it's darn paranoia becuase this game doesn't feel [solved] and i think i'm wrong [somewhere] and while i don't think i'm wrong on you i think i'm legally obliged to have this conversation with myself at least like once per dayphase

right

Okay, so why do you think you’re feeling that you’re wrong somewhere?

Also datisi if I’m about to work through your reads with you to try and help you get to a greater confidence and you end up flipping scum I’m gonna be so pissed in postgame lmao

[Menalque]

Okay, what do you make of S_S saying he hasn’t been hard townreading lil and that’s it’s more from her end towards him? And the implication of that on the feeling you have

i guess i don't have an answer to this, i'm just getting similar vibes
and i'm kinda wary that if i give up on ss today it's just not going to happen

How likely do you think a bus driver is? I don’t think bingle does lie about mechanics and he’s said that 3-4 T’s is the most likely outcome in which case there is no scum bus driver. In which case you just shooting him tonight always means he dies?

[Menalque]

i think there's a decent chance there's a bus driver and i therefore don't want to talk about where i'm intending to shoot / if i'm intending to shoot

like i want to keep open the possibility of holstering or shooting ss or shooting a {secret scumread that will henceforth not be named} because then hopefully if i'm still around n3 any potential bus driver will have been spent

I’m not okay with any of this. The whole reason I’ve been fine townlocking you today is you being confirmable and the fact that scum will need to kill you if you’re town. You trying to introduce the possibility of bolstering is not at all helpful because while I don’t think you’d claim that kill on pb as SK, I do think you would if you thought you could get away with there only being one nightkill again N2 or you not killing the obvious choice, which I think you’re kinda doing here by lingering on the unlikely possibility of there being a bus driver to excuse not being forthright about where you’ll shoot

[Menalque]

i think it's darn paranoia becuase this game doesn't feel [solved] and i think i'm wrong [somewhere] and while i don't think i'm wrong on you i think i'm legally obliged to have this conversation with myself at least like once per dayphase

right

Okay, so why do you think you’re feeling that you’re wrong somewhere?

Also datisi if I’m about to work through your reads with you to try and help you get to a greater confidence and you end up flipping scum I’m gonna be so pissed in postgame lmao

that's the problem, i don't *know*

like sure lili could be red, okay fine i'm accepting that
i still kinda don't think s_s is? and there's the jumbled mess of {fb, maria, pp} and i'm kinda townreading everyone else

like the thing is i am not seeign anythign pointing at "this is wrong" other than my expericence that my reads are generally garbage

So that’s 5 names and we have 2 mislynches left and there’s 3 scum? So if you don’t think you have a particular reason to think that pool is wrong and that you shouldn’t be townreading everyone else, do you think maybe the best approach is to just flip a couple of slots within there and then go from there, which would mean that in this case your feeling that something is “wrong” rn is just paranoia borne of a low information gamestate

[Menalque]

i'm allowing for that possibility because a50 thinks if there's a bus driver that's the thing i ought to do and i trust his mechanics-sense a lot more than my own

Would you agree that bingle tends not to lie about mechanics regardless of alignment and get a second opinion there?

[Menalque]

I think the value of you being de facto conftown outweighs the risk of you being busdriven by a margin. I’m willing to listen to the case why that may be wrong but I think it’s obviously correct

[Menalque]

also you know that i'm not like ~that creative~ as scum, right?

I respect your scumgame /far/ too much to answer affirmatively here

[Menalque]

I unironically think that would probably be more helpful to a town win than you not shooting and having to try and sort you without you having been confirmed — especially as scum have much less motivation to kill you in the case that you’re bolstering or shooting a ~*top secret scumread*~ who might make you look really bad

[Menalque]

Oh ffs I forgot about the rb

[Menalque]

Bingle, in relation to skitter’s points earlier — do you think you’ve done anything particularly townie in terms of play/that there are reasons to be townreading or townblocing you?

[Menalque]

(Btw All you have to do is take a look at how me and S_S interacted to see how we're never scum together.)

But like... you barely interacted at all?

Why do you prefer lilith anyway

[Menalque]

Is this true? I can’t remember how much you interacted with your partners in furret’s pt2 but my feeling is that it wasn’t loads?

[Menalque]

Also why would you not let S_S yell at you as scum, I often try to get my partners to yell at me when we’re scum together because people continually misread aggression as not aligned

[Menalque]

No, I don’t think so, it was the one where I nearly got lynched on D1 but then you got lynched instead because the deadlines were like 48hrs or something insane and lynched happened in a mad rush the first 2 days

I mean, maybe? Okay, how would it be then? Because again, I think fake anger and spats often get read as (not aligned) and so I think it’s a pretty good interaction to have with a scumbuddy especially because you don’t have to feel guilty about actually upsetting someone later!

[Menalque]

I think pine was one scumbuddy but I can’t remember the other off the top of my head

[Menalque]

I sort of take it back, you did interact with pine more than you interacted with S_S but you almost totally ignored ginngie so I think the lack of interaction isn’t necessarily clearing of you as a partner to S_S

[Menalque]

I certainly wouldn't go for fake anger since people think as scum I can fake everything in the book

I’m not sure I understand this bit but maybe I’m being dumb. Why does people thinking you can fake everything in the book mean you wouldn’t use fake anger?

[Menalque]

Why did you unvote PP?

[Menalque]

I somewhat regret making this game this long because it’s really not disposing me well towards going back through to read again

I just wish I could think of everything at once and not feel the borderline compulsion to share thoughts that come to me immediately after making a post

@penguin which one do you think is more likely to be scum though? Also why is it important that neither has voted?

[Menalque]

Also pretty sure your unvote puts S_S one vote ahead of lilith

[Menalque]

That’s an interesting question for you to ask since the answer should be obvious unless you think them both scum.

Well it feels like your reason for unvoting means you’d happily vote whichever has a lower wagon as you want the wagons equal for some reason? And yes I’ve said more than once that I think it’s perfectly plausible that they are both scum

[Menalque]

UNVOTE:

Nope. You’re wrong.

Lilith was ahead, then A50 switched making it 4-3 on S_S then maria voted for lilith making it 4-4 then you unvoted making it 4-3?

[Menalque]

That’s an interesting question for you to ask since the answer should be obvious unless you think them both scum.

Well it feels like your reason for unvoting means you’d happily vote whichever has a lower wagon as you want the wagons equal for some reason? And yes I’ve said more than once that I think it’s perfectly plausible that they are both scum

I would. They are both in my pool, and I would like for both of them to actually make a stance.

But they have, lilith thinks S_S is town and S_S is saying lilith could be scum and has (I think but haven’t checked this yet) walked back a townread from D1. Well he admits he’s done that but he said it wasn’t a particularly strong read in the first place

[Menalque]

I have quite a lot of sympathy with that but not enough to discount what people say (especially people like S_S who are notorious for being stingy about voting)

[Menalque]

Would either of you vote S_S here?

[Menalque]

I guess that’s probably more @maria tbh

[Menalque]

I meant more like, would you vote them now?

[Menalque]

Him* sorry