Smoke-Filled Antechamber [Endgame]

[Tammy]

unless midwaybear just wanted to cause paranoia?

[Tammy]

Why wouldn't scum kill the freaking doctors though?

[Tammy]

interesting thought.

didn't think of that

[Tammy]

So not sure if I should wait on this right now, but my mind is frazzled with lack of sleep.

I'm sane. I resolved myself night two.

I investigated Syryana night one, he was town. (Ferry got a guilty result, jake got an innocent result)
Night two I investigated Bell, he was scum (Jake forgot to investigate anyone but that doesn't matter because me getting a guilty result after a correct innocent result means I'm sane.)
Night three I investigated Peta, he was town
Night four, I investigated Nahdia, they were town

I just double checked my work for the millionth time to make sure I'm not fucking it up here.

I suppose we could no elim and I could get in another investigation to see if we're dealing with a godfather?

[Tammy]

I rolled the dice between midway and nahdia last night, nahdia was evens so they got the investigation

[Tammy]

If anyone sees a way I messed up the resolve, let me know!

[Tammy]

Fuck this bullshit I’m going to bed.

[Tammy]

This is fine

Just fiiiine

Need a reminder every now and then why I stopped playing mafia especially at this site.

[Tammy]

I’ve read their claim over and over again because something didn’t feel right, but kept settling on it being fiiiiine because alisae started feeling quite town

I finally root uyou can’t trust shit at this site because people think it’s eooooooooo clever to lie.

[Tammy]

I’ve read their claim over and over again because something didn’t feel right, but kept settling on it being fiiiiine because alisae started feeling quite town

I finally root uyou can’t trust shit at this site because people think it’s eooooooooo clever to lie.

I went along with the claim because Pooky literally asked and I don't see why I wouldn't let them make their play if they want to make a play. It just makes sense to support your teammate's play in a team game. You would probably do the same thing in my position.
And I never saw a reason to come out and say we're lieing because it seemed like the perfect cover.

No I absolutely would not. It’s not team game to do this. It literally ruins and throws games.

It doesn’t make sense.

If you’re scum here you did just fine.

Town nope nada. You fucked over your team.

Fuck this game.

[Tammy]

Hmm
Is scum definitely without a doubt between me andPooky?

Alisae could be scum too.

If alisae is scum, they have to no kill here also.

FUCK THIS GAME

[Tammy]

What I don't understand is why alisae did this. In alisae v pine Katsuki went along with LLD's suggestions they be mason and it fucked over town. Like there were memes about how he agreed to be mason with scum.

And alisae makes the mind numbingly stupid claim that it's a team game thing to do? Like what the everliving fuck? This isn't clever. This isn't funny. This is fucking stupid. Games get absolutely trashed over this bullshit. Town waste their fucking time rereading and rereading to see if your claims make sense and figuring out the game around these dumb as claims and you guys are sitting here congratulating yourselves for this dumb ass fuckery.

Step off with this bullshit.

[Tammy]

What I don't understand is why alisae did this. In alisae v pine Katsuki went along with LLD's suggestions they be mason and it fucked over town. Like there were memes about how he agreed to be mason with scum.

I think you're thinking about the wrong game

I am. it was guy in freezer's game.

[Tammy]

Tammy that was GiF's game and I wasn't in that game.
I knew about that happening but for Pooky to try to make a play like that in thread seems really bizzare for scum to do. If he did kill me and janitor my slot, people just need to read his ISO and they'll realize that everything Pooky did was in this thread.
in LLD and Katsuki's case, they were in a neighborhood and that couldn't be proven unless you were in the hood yourself. At least thats how I remember that playing out?

It doesn't matter why or how or what the read was. It creates a warped gamestate and it's disrespectful to every other member of the town.

We don't need to keep going on about this though. You think it's fine, and I never will. Even if you guys are both town here, I still won't. Fake claims and gambits of this type pretty much top my list of things I do not like in mafia.

And if one of you is scum it makes so much sense why I was having such a hard time finding scum in midwaybear, nahdia, cakez and peta.

[Tammy]

Reread through you guys. What I know is that if you're scum, you're playing a good game. I had you as my back pocket scum read until you're third check in day one and then you started seeming more natural and I started reading you as town. i kept reevaluating your play and still thinking you were town and accepted you both as town based on your play. (I thought several times you guys might be scum lovers.)

Haven't read through pooky. I was leaning town earlier on pooky, not for anything alignment, just because I liked pooky. I haven't reevaluated him.

[Tammy]

If you want me to apologize about it, okay thats fine.

I'm sorry I agreed to Pooky's play to fakeclaim. I thought it would be okay given who our mod is but clearly I'm apparently in the wrong.

Thank you. I'm just an emotional basketcase and I'll get over it <3

[Tammy]

VOTE: leap of faith

[Tammy]

okay so I caught up and like
I don't have much to say or like add
honestly when I read up I feel like its just the same people posting and I don't really see a problem with any of it.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why the only read that Diamond is still pushing is Jake.
I'm not sure why voting Nahdia is productive when ideally that slot should be trying to generate content instead of just AtE
I have no idea why I feel like Pooky hasn't really done much aside from being a fun person to chat with
I'm starting to get concerned with Bulge's activity


I'm probably not voting any of Cabd, ffery, tammy, syr, midway, ss, cakez, peta, or gamma right now at least for the given moment.

1. They are doing literally nothing helpful.
2. What little they have posted screams of low effort thinly veiled scum-posting.
3. They're the one read I'm certain of.
4. They're a push that I'm confident can actually gain some traction.

I know that it hurts that I"m pushing your scumbuddy, but sometimes you just gotta let it go.

Interaction looks good for alisae, plus I reread through alisae's DS push recently and it felt solid.

[Tammy]

Nahdia doesn't seem like the type of person to intentionally do traditionally scummy stuff to get townread as scum.

Certainly not.

I'm not sure if you really believed in Tammy being self conscious, but now I see my man Diamond also making similar accusations so idk

you think I... didn't believe it?

I latched onto the initial post I pointed out (the one which replied was just a joke) because that's 100% out of my own scum playbook. The kind of post I basically would never make as town but am pretty sure I have in fact made as scum. That doesn't mean it's the same for Tammy, but in my own self-reflection I find I make that kind of post because when I'm worried about how to make a town post, the obvious (too-obvious, therefore has to be presented as a joke) solution is to literally copy the post of a town player. So I started looking for more evidence of that kind of self-consciousness and found the things I pointed out from there.

These 2 quotes read horribly. Talking about ones town game (or how to make a "town" post) is in my experience essentially universally a scum trait. It's really the strongest tell I can see.

there's a reasonable chance at least one of the 2012 circlejerk is scum and im hoping they just sort themselves out so i dont have to

Half-heartedly calling shade on a group without hitting on it at all later. Really hate this.

feels a little big brain to me. i can see the logic as to why maybe town shouldn't, but i dont agree it means town

wouldn't

do it.

not to be rude i don't need you backing me up in this argument and i dunno why it needs your comment over anything else

not to be rude but i don't need your permission to respond to posts in this thread

This entire back and forth with peta looks awful for both, but 100000% worse on Nahdia than peta. I'm not unconvinced it's scum theater.

i'll call pooky town too even though that's one more townread than i need.

more words, man!

feels legit

his EoD looks bad to me.

VOTE: pookythemagicalbear

i thought the opposite but i'm willing to hear you out

he defends taylor, then wont elaborate, then just questions her without any followup, and never actually votes.

Potentially misrepping how traitors work, normally?

Traitors, as defined by the wiki, are mafia who know who the other mafia are, but are unknown to the mafia. My read on Pooky notwithstanding, I

really

don't like this misrep.

This is the push on Nahdia that a lot of people were talking about that cleared them. The interaction about pooky there is a something?

[Tammy]

DS who do you think are the scum?

My pool is midway, peta, and nahdia, in that order.

That being said, I'm not sure how I feel about midway and peta together. It's a possibility. Midway has really really been trying to be scumread today, so that's caused a pretty big 180 in my read of him. Peta is def trying to levy a low hanging fruit wagon on me. Nahdia is still making me feel uneasy and have a pretty big gutread about it.

As for Cakez, I really don't see him as super scummy. He

could

still be scum as I've been historically terrible at reading him (like Titus), but I've got a town read on him.

His last reads.

[Tammy]

I'll look at other stuff later. I have to go to bed.

[Tammy]

Peta do you still think that midwaybear interactions with ds and bell early on looks town for him?

[Tammy]

One question real quick then I’m really going to bed.

How does a suicide bomber interact with a doctor

LIKE IF A SUICIDE BOMBER TRIES YO ASPLODE ON SOMEONE WHO IS HEALED, DOES THE suicide bomber still asplode or does he walk away harmless?

Because if a suicide bomber does still asplode but the target is saved that just seems harsh?

Sorry for all caps there on my phone don’t know what happened.

[Tammy]

If we no elim:

Pooky heals me.
I cop midwaybear -
Pooky should die

We go into tomorrow with 5 people. If midwaybear is red, we elim him tomorrow gg. If he's town, we elim Alisae. If Alisae is town then we know there's a godfather and they can resolve that in final three.

If Pooky is town and he is telling the truth (here) that he is a doctor and he healed Alisae last night when there was no kill, then midwaybear should come back red. It hasn't cost us anything or any time really. If we no elim, go into fast night where we all submit our actions quickly, we're looking at a quick turn around.

There's shenanigans if pooky's scum, but if he's town this should be easy. Unless godfather.

[Tammy]

i think people who spend the game lying shouldn't be harassing other people to self vote.

[Tammy]

VOTE: no elim

[Tammy]

peta/nahdia - Does my thoughts on no elim make sense? I have a tendency to get the maths wrong near endgame, so is there a fault in that plan?

UNVOTE:

[Tammy]

this game is basically locked, mwb has nowhere to go. alisae is never scum here -

@Tammy

Sorry for the tricks, I hope you can forgive me - I really do like playing with you a lot.

I finished up all my ranting and being mad in my empty neighborhood earlier today.

I really enjoy playing with you too!

I've had a lot of games ruined by gambiting town and wasted a lot of energy trying to figure out if the gambits come from town or scum. In the rare instances that it doesn't cost town the game, it still cost a lot of energy. Maybe it makes no sense for either of you as scum to make this gambit and out it today, but I also know I'm not going to waste a lot of energy trying to figure that out.

[Tammy]

oh whoever the last scum is could go out in a world of flames and suicide bomb tonight. Take out whoever you want with you. End the game on your own terms! Not by a guilty and through an elim mob.

Drink the hemlock.

You'll feel so much better.

[Tammy]

Here's Socrates drinking his hemlock. Look how powerful and strong he is! Does he look sad? Hell, no. He's confident and ending life on his own terms.

Be like Socrates.

[Tammy]

VOTE: no elim

[Tammy]

Midway bear came back town

[Tammy]

I'm double checking with fakegod that I was supposed to get the night two Bell was mafia result.

[Tammy]

fakegod verified that I got the correct night two result.

Wanted to just double check that I got that result correctly otherwise I'd be naive and nobody's results mattered.

[Tammy]

um what

if i was scum with alisae we would've won yesterday

you'll would have only won yesterday if we mis-elimined.

You and alisae being scum together right now would be just be regular final five.

[Tammy]

Don't know why alisae is doing the busy work of what endgames look to be a disaster.

[Tammy]

Tammy, how do you justify Pooky's play during this day phase if he's scum.
I think what scum!Pooky wants to do is kill me no?
He could kill Peta and then he gets to 1v1 Midway, a 1v1 which he is VERY prepared to do.

I don't think him hard defending me and even offering himself up makes sense as scum and I don't see how he wins if we even do get a midway flip.
If he kills me he has to 1v1 Peta and I'm not sure how F3 with You Peta and Pooky plays out. I think you'll more likely kill Pooky in this F3?
If he kills you he just dies. He has to keep you alive and you are by far the best townie to keep alive not because of you're IC status but also the fact that you're in the top 90% of scumhunters on site.
If he kills Peta he certainly does not win the 1v1 against me.

I'm not really thinking about this right now. Getting ready to head to bed as I'm in zoom meetings all day tomorrow.

Thing is though I have two innocent results. So you're asking me to go against the results I have when I don't really trust the people I don't have results on.

[Tammy]

I don't understand why Nahdia died though.

[Tammy]

Thing is theoretically Alisae and Pooky could be scum together. Yeah, I know well then why'd they out that they weren't lovers yesterday if they were scum together. I don't know. What I do know is that Alisae was resistant to no elim'ing yesterday so that I could try to get another investigation going into five players left. If they were scum together and if they were able to get a miselim yesterday they would have won.

And now Alisae wants us to no elim today to try to get an investigation and if they're scum tougher they only need the night kill.

I'm sure I'll hear a mouthful from the WHAT KIND OF SENSE DOES THAT MAKE WHAT ROAD TO VICTORY DO WE HAVE OUTING OURSELVES INSTEAD OF STAYING HIDDEN brigade

blah blah blah.

also midway the plan^tm was based on the idea that pooky died and you came back green. Then if one of you were godfathers, the three clears go into final three together and figure it out. but nahdia died last night which is weird.

[Tammy]

I’ve been in lectures and training all weekend, and nacho just got home after being gone for a week, so I’m not playing mafia tonight. Be back tomorrow.

[Tammy]

Pretty sure you can get me killed. Everyone except for Tammy probably thinks it is me

I don’t even know who I think is scum so if you’re hanging all your hopes on me I might be rusty but you probably shouldn’t just hang all your hopes on me

[Tammy]

I’m also drunk in case I didn’t make sense

[Tammy]

i dont wanna be here man

[Tammy]

I've got a lot of real life catching up to do after being in meetings and trainings all weekend. So these are just some random thoughts

Alisae's asking pooky to write up why they're town felt weird. like okay if he's elimed and town then his town read on you came from an innocent place but doesn't mean he's right unless he's shown a demonstrated ability to read alisae right in the past.

one thing I keep coming back to is that Alisae said they went along with it because mafia is a team game and they were helping out their team. But I went back to look at their interaction some time back and again earlier because it felt off to me. One thing that felt struck me as odd was the way that Alisae talked about Pooky:

fferyllt - town
midwaybear - town
Something_Smart - town
petapan - town
Tammy - town
Jake The Wolfie - town
Gamma Emerald - town

{Bell, Cabd} 1 scum
{Nahdia, Diamond} 1 scum

Here's my thing with Diamond
I can't tell if he's scum and pushing people dishonestly and just trying to spin whatever he can as scummy or if he's just town or if he is just town and plays this way like his jake push sucked and he called me Jake's scum buddy a bunch of times.
Nahdia makes sense to kill Syr
it could be theater but I don't think it is

Taylor could have signalled to Cakez but this isn't something im super confident in?

and Bulge/Pooky I just don't have reads on

Bell - scum
Tayl0r Swift
Cabd
fferyllt
midwaybear - town
SirCakez - prob town
Something_Smart
Syryana
petapan - town
Tammy - Prob town
PookyTheMagicalBear
The Bulge
Jake The Wolfie - Town
Gamma Emerald - Prob Town
DiamondSentinel - Scum
Nahdia - Scum

okay so I caught up and like
I don't have much to say or like add
honestly when I read up I feel like its just the same people posting and I don't really see a problem with any of it.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why the only read that Diamond is still pushing is Jake.
I'm not sure why voting Nahdia is productive when ideally that slot should be trying to generate content instead of just AtE
I have no idea why I feel like Pooky hasn't really done much aside from being a fun person to chat with
I'm starting to get concerned with Bulge's activity


I'm probably not voting any of Cabd, ffery, tammy, syr, midway, ss, cakez, peta, or gamma right now at least for the given moment.

Those are all the mentions of pooky, besides their interactions about ice cream and neighborhoods before confirming the mason claim. (Is this a good time to admit that i don't really like ice cream? I like it every now and then. Usually crave it like once or twice a year, but other than that meh.) Anyway I dwelled on this a few times and wrote it off to Alisae just doing that weird thing that people sometimes do by null reading their mason partner by putting them in null. But it just doesn't match up to the reasoning of "wanted to help a team mate out."

Also alisae doesn't have to no kill because they just somehow knew that Pooky was going to save them. No ESPN required to know that any other kill but the doctors that night is suspect. (Yes, I know then why come out an admit they weren't mason doctors that day. Got it. Might have not thought there would be such a negative reaction? Who knows.

I'm not saying this means alisae is scum; these are just some anomalies that I've been thinking about.

[Tammy]

How do I not know what is going on again?

[Tammy]

but lol I don't look at other people's thoughts to tell me how to read someone

[Tammy]

I mean you literally said so here and I asked Pooky to do that before this post

Pretty sure you can get me killed. Everyone except for Tammy probably thinks it is me

I don’t even know who I think is scum so if you’re hanging all your hopes on me I might be rusty but you probably shouldn’t just hang all your hopes on me

Not knowing who I think is scum isn't the same as not knowing what's going on.

[Tammy]

Sure if you make an enormous leap in logic and don't know how to read I don't know who scum is sure thing equals I don't know what's going on.

as for the other part lol

[Tammy]

Are you fucking high or can you just not read.

Pooky being town ONLY means he's read is honest, it does not mean it's correct.

You know this. I don't know why you're playing so fucking dumb.

[Tammy]

YOU COULD HAVE NO KILLED

[Tammy]

I'm done taking to you, You just don't know how to read.

[Tammy]

That doesn’t make sense Tammy

I doesn't make sense to me that someone would fucking lie about being mason lovers and act like they're confirmed town all game and play the most egotistical bullshit game WHILE LYING but here we are.

[Tammy]

I don't have to talk to you anymore. I'm confirmed town and don't have to answer to your bullshit self.

I win bye bye

[Tammy]

I'm unfortunately still stuck in this game and have to deal with it and what it does to the people I trust.

You don't get to lie and then dictate to me how I react to you lying.

The only thing I can do is avoid you in the future. Suck it.

[Tammy]

If Alisae didn't know that Pooky was going to do that, then I think there isn't much weird with the read on Pooky pre claim.

No, what I thought was weird was the Alisae didn't have a town read on pooky pre-mason lover claim but showed no sense of hesitation to confirm when making the claim. But when they explained why they went along with it they said it was because they were helping out a teammate and it's a team game. (It's only now that they said something about doing it to help them get a read, which quite frankly should have been there first.). It just seems odd to go along with a claim like that - for the reasons of helping one's team - if you're not even town reading them in the first place.

[Tammy]

you can hold your breath for an apology. I don't owe you an apology because you lied. I don't owe you an apology because of the bulldozer behavior you've taken to the game. I don't owe you an apology because you won't read my posts and then are quite frankly a bit insulting here. I don't owe you an apology because every time I'm working out my thoughts on the game, you come in here like you own the place and demand I call you town and that I think logically.

I don't any of that bullshit here. If midwaybear is scum, I still don't owe you an apology because you decided to lie. Frankly fuck off for the demand.

I always think of every possibility in a mafia game and I'm not going to apologize for that because scum win tooooo many times because someone doesn't think of the possibilities.

I owe it to the game to think of everything no matter if you like it or not.

[Tammy]

I'm struggling to stay in this game and not be a toxic presence but damn you bulldoze every fucking time I post as if I don't have a right to think of everything. You're a bully and I don't like your attitude.

[Tammy]

Also alisae doesn't have to no kill because they just somehow knew that Pooky was going to save them. No ESPN required to know that any other kill but the doctors that night is suspect. (

Yes, I know then why come out an admit they weren't mason doctors that day.

Got it. Might have not thought there would be such a negative reaction? Who knows.

I'm not saying this means alisae is scum; these are just some anomalies that I've been thinking about.

And here, if you'd bother reading, you'd see that I am thinking about all the crap, and no I'm not just saying diediedie.

I'm allowed to try to figure out a damned mafia game.

[Tammy]

Tammy it's my fault - I came up with the lie, pls do not blame Alisae for following along.

At this point, it's not about the lie, it's about Alisae acting like I'm not allowed to be suspicious, like I'm not allowed to think of each possibility as likely, because I've been in my far share of mafia games where scum won by doing what everyone thinks is impossible. But mostly it's that egotistical fucking attitude.

[Tammy]

bye

[Tammy]

Alisae you're unpleasant as hell.

You're behavior makes me think you're more scummy not less.

I never said you no killed because you knew you were being protected. I did say that you could have no killed because it wouldn't make any sense for anyone outside the doctors to die. But apparently you can't read.

I know to avoid you in the future.

I am allowed to try to figure out a mafia game. And if that's working through the things that seem unlikely that's working through the things that are unlikely. And here, in a position where I'm confirmed fucking town, you know it's true and honest and I'm allowed to do that.

It probably seems like you have to do everything because you're an egotistical control freak who doesn't want to allow anyone any other thoughts on the game. You're not nearly as good at this as you think you are, but good bye.

[Tammy]

Subject: Questionable Balcony

Tammy I hope I won't be letting you down.

<3

You couldn’t have let me down no matter which way you went. Thank you!

[Tammy]

Thank you for hosting fake god!

I really enjoyed this game until this end and would love to play with most of you again.

Pooky I thought you did really well in end game and put up a great fight!

[Tammy]

@Tammy
I feel like I should apologize for my D6 if you're reading this.
tbh, I kinda don't really know where I went wrong, and I honestly feel like that is really not good
I just know that I was really out of line in how I acted and I shouldn't have acted like that.
I'm sorry.

Quite frankly, you should have just been quiet and let me work out the things that bugged me. I don’t get things right 100% of the time, but I’m pretty decent at sitting through what is bugging me and shouldn’t, but it’s a process. And you should let people go through their own process.
Trying to take control and bully a game into doing whatever you want is not good play. It’s not team play, and it’s doubly frustrating when you’ve practically game thrown by fake claiming masons.

This apology is fine, but I’m not really quite sure you are sorry for your actions more than you’re sorry that I got so pissed.

But really you owe a bigger apology to the entire game, and that apology is the most important one. I, for one, suspected the claim at a few pints, but as I said before I kept reading you and you looked quite town, so I wrote off my concerns due to my town read and my belief in your integrity as a player. Holding on to that fake claim made everything after DS elim fucked up. All of our interactions were skewed. Cakez miselim, the midway one - neither of which potentially happen had we own the truth. He’ll The Godfather theory even arose because I couldn’t think of where scum were if not for peta being godfather and that caused a ton of confusion. Your fakeclaim wasted our time and energy, and you should be apologizing to the town for nearly costing them a game they put a lot of heart into.

[Tammy]

The fact that you are still justifying it speaks to your lack competence and integrity and means you can’t be trusted.

You don’t realize and accept you were wrong which means you’ll do it again.

[Tammy]

The fact that you are still justifying it speaks to your lack competence and integrity and means you can’t be trusted.

You don’t realize and accept you were wrong which means you’ll do it again.

[Tammy]

Thanks for great modding, FakeGod. I couldn't believe i missed sign-ups!

It’d have been fun to play with you again!

[Tammy]

Oh wait was I right fakegod that the role of function of the traitor was to find their masters?

[Tammy]

That the function of the rolecop rather

I’m sleepy