Newbie 2035 - Movie Facts (Game Over)

[brassherald]

Movie Fact: In Hocus Pocus, a remark about leaving the cauldron on when the sisters were being hanged was cut out of the movie, but, if you watch the final cut, the comment later in the movie that Mary was right about leaving the cauldron on, remains.

Votecount 1.03

Titus (3):

NorewegianboyEE, Trendall, Zurel

NorwegianboyEE (1):

, Titus

Not Voting (5):

Salsabil Faria, wiyvern, TheDuke, AuroraDash, Town looter

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.
The Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-10-25 09:30:00)

[Zurel]

By the look of it, there may not be counterclaim. Unless Wiyvern is the doctor and never got around to catch up like they said they would.

So if we decide not to lynch Titus, what is our next course of action?

[Salsabil Faria]

If you are the

doctor

, then NorwegianboyEE is the

scum

.

Things don’t work that way though.

What I meant there was, one of you is lying. So, if Titus says the truth about her role, then you're the scum here. On the other hand, it's vise versa, you're telling truth, so, Titus fake claimed.

[Salsabil Faria]

I've not played this setup before, so I guess that if somebody has drawn either Jailkeeper, Friendly Neighbour or Mason, they know that that's not true.

I think this is a good approach. Looking at the table of possible setup variations, there's a high probability that

if

it's a fake claim,

then

there will be at least one town power role present who knows that for certain. (I think this'll work in any version of the setup except 1C, which is two vanilla mafia vs. cop). What this means is that we're highly likely to find out if it's fake pretty soon, so I think we should hold off on hammering until then.

Stating the obvious and using it as an excuse to buy time seems scummy to me, but what do I know.

If AD is scum, it's a pretty effective whiteknight. Of course, it could be a good cop bad cop thing.

What do you mean by good cop bad cop here?

One scum (Norway) treats everything I say as bad.
The other scum (AD) treats things I say as possibly good. The idea is to crack the target into saying things they otherwise wouldn't.

It's commonly used by police.

sorry, still don't understand clearly

[Zurel]

If you are the

doctor

, then NorwegianboyEE is the

scum

.

Things don’t work that way though.

What I meant there was, one of you is lying. So, if Titus says the truth about her role, then you're the scum here. On the other hand, it's vise versa, you're telling truth, so, Titus fake claimed.

There is also the possibility that they're both town and mafias are just taking advantage of the chaos by taking a back seat and watch town goes after another. Therefore, even if Titus's claim is true, it doesn't guarantee that Norway is lying. And vice versa.

[Zurel]

I've not played this setup before, so I guess that if somebody has drawn either Jailkeeper, Friendly Neighbour or Mason, they know that that's not true.

I think this is a good approach. Looking at the table of possible setup variations, there's a high probability that

if

it's a fake claim,

then

there will be at least one town power role present who knows that for certain. (I think this'll work in any version of the setup except 1C, which is two vanilla mafia vs. cop). What this means is that we're highly likely to find out if it's fake pretty soon, so I think we should hold off on hammering until then.

Stating the obvious and using it as an excuse to buy time seems scummy to me, but what do I know.

If AD is scum, it's a pretty effective whiteknight. Of course, it could be a good cop bad cop thing.

What do you mean by good cop bad cop here?

One scum (Norway) treats everything I say as bad.
The other scum (AD) treats things I say as possibly good. The idea is to crack the target into saying things they otherwise wouldn't.

It's commonly used by police.

sorry, still don't understand clearly

Hypothetically, Norway is the bad cop who aggressively attacks town!Titus while AuroraDash pretends to be the good cop by unvoting town!Titus and not aligning with Norway's approach. In the end their aim is still the same, to drive town!Titus to a corner.

In real life, good cop bad cop refers to an interrogation tactic where one cop acts all buddy-buddy with the suspect to gain the suspect's trust and make them let down their guard. While the other cop aggressively uses threat etc to harangue the suspect. Both aim to make the suspect gives the information they want or confesses to the crime.

[Salsabil Faria]

If you are the

doctor

, then NorwegianboyEE is the

scum

.

Things don’t work that way though.

What I meant there was, one of you is lying. So, if Titus says the truth about her role, then you're the scum here. On the other hand, it's vise versa, you're telling truth, so, Titus fake claimed.

There is also the possibility that they're both town and mafias are just taking advantage of the chaos by taking a back seat and watch town goes after another. Therefore, even if Titus's claim is true, it doesn't guarantee that Norway is lying. And vice versa.

Not sure about that yet.... what I feel right now, I tell. Also, is it possible we have 3 mafias in our set up?

[Zurel]

No. If you refer to post #2, there is a maximum of two mafias.

[Trendall]

Yeah we should just lynch Titus

[Zurel]

Trendall, I just want to say that I believe you're town so if you flip mafia, I'll lose faith in humanity. For about a month.

Just saying.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you are the

doctor

, then NorwegianboyEE is the

scum

.

Things don’t work that way though.

What I meant there was, one of you is lying. So, if Titus says the truth about her role, then you're the scum here. On the other hand, it's vise versa, you're telling truth, so, Titus fake claimed.

That’s what i don’t like about your post. As i know i am town, if Titus is confirmed town it still doesn’t change the fact that it could be TvT. Not saying it necesarilly is as i still don’t trust Titus at all. But pushing the narrative that i HAVE to be scum if Titus isn’t is very suspicious.

[Trendall]

It's like, we gave Titus time to explain some stuff, they came back with a complete fantasy about how NorwegianboyEE is upset about last game or something. Their entire arguments all game have been a complete horror show, they're not going to suddenly come back and start providing worthwhile points. I don't there's even been a point all game where anybody has particularly gone 'Titus made a good point here', it's all just been nonsense which doesn't correspond to the reality of what's in the thread in any way. Just lynch it.

[AuroraDash]

Huh, apparently my response didn't show up. What I tried to say was that we should at least wait until it's been a day so that anyone can counterclaim if need be.

Welp.

It's been a full day now, no counterclaims have happened. Not much has changed in that time, and all the evidence from before still stands.

VOTE: Titus

It's like, we gave Titus time to explain some stuff, they came back with a complete fantasy about how NorwegianboyEE is upset about last game or something. Their entire arguments all game have been a complete horror show, they're not going to suddenly come back and start providing worthwhile points. I don't there's even been a point all game where anybody has particularly gone 'Titus made a good point here', it's all just been nonsense which doesn't correspond to the reality of what's in the thread in any way. Just lynch it.

Agreed. Her arguments with Norwegian read like strings of weird rationalisations which don't make sense when they're all made by the same person -- the term "kettle logic" comes to mind.

[NorwegianboyEE]

all the evidence from before still stands.

Essentially where i'm standing too.
Titus has still been acting convinced that i'm scum with bad reasoning and tunnel-vision. Their behavior also doesn't match how i'd expect an experienced doctor to play.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Trendall, while we wait for someone to hammer or Titus to return.
Who's your reads on scum if Titus was town. And who do you think would be likely teammate to Titus if they are scum?

[TheDuke]

Guys, I don't think we should lynch Titus. Looking at the possible setups, there's only one where no-one could counterclaim (Cop and Vanilla Townie). This means that there's a 8/9 chance of him being innocent. Also, think about it from Titus's point of view. If Titus was scum and trying to fakeclaim, why would he choose a role which gave him almost a 90% chance of being counterclaimed and lynched? The only reasonable explanation would be that he's legitimately the Town Doctor.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Guys, I don't think we should lynch Titus. Looking at the possible setups, there's only one where no-one could counterclaim (Cop and Vanilla Townie). This means that there's a 8/9 chance of him being innocent.

If we assume Titus was scum fake claiming doctor there are two possible ways to counterclaim. Either someone is a PR that doesn't allow for doctors. (Any role other than doctor/Tracker in the setup would automatically prove Titus's doctor claim as fake) or there is a real doctor that hasn't counterclaimed Titus.
There's also the possibility of town PR's already knowing Titus's claim is fake, but not claiming because they wanna see if Titus can be eliminated without outing their role to the mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Titus was scum and trying to fakeclaim, why would he choose a role which gave him almost a 90% chance of being counterclaimed and lynched?

To out one of the town PR's before dying.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Any role other than doctor/Tracker in the setup would automatically prove Titus's doctor claim as fake

I meant to say cop/tracker. Not doctor/tracker.

[wiyvern]

Wait why would we kill titus if nobody's cced their claim?
I get they're acting scummy, but it's still an uncountered claim

[Titus]

I'll be back tomorrow. Life tired me out today.

[Zurel]

Wait why would we kill titus if nobody's cced their claim?
I get they're acting scummy, but it's still an uncountered claim

Because

If we assume Titus was scum fake claiming doctor there are two possible ways to counterclaim. Either someone is a PR that doesn't allow for doctors. (Any role other than doctor/Tracker in the setup would automatically prove Titus's doctor claim as fake) or there is a real doctor that hasn't counterclaimed Titus.
There's also the possibility of town PR's already knowing Titus's claim is fake, but not claiming because they wanna see if Titus can be eliminated without outing their role to the mafia.

[Zurel]

For me personally, I want the game to move along and for us to get more information. Because what is the alternative? We find a new target, L-1 them until we either successfully lynch them or squeeze another claim out of them (in which case it's rinse and repeat). Or we sit around until the Day is over but we will gain no new information. And someone will die at Night.

The thing is though, I don't know who the viable new target is. Norway is the only one on whom the a case has been made, but the arguments given against him have been flimsy at best. (Yes, I hate that another game outside of this one which I don't care about keeps being brought up). If someone can come up with a better case be it against him or another player, then I'll agree to hop off Titus's wagon. As of now I'm very pro-lynch Titus, her alignment regardless.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Personally i find Salsabil Faria a bit sus for reasons i’ve mentioned. But it’s not enough of an suspicion for me to unvote from Titus.

[Zurel]

Personally i find Salsabil Faria a bit sus for reasons i’ve mentioned. But it’s not enough of an suspicion for me to unvote from Titus.

I wouldn't go after Salsabil at this point. She's very obviously a new player and newbies have a more linear line of thought because they're not used to the game mechanics. In her mind it's either one case or another, so either you or Titus is scum. A third possibility of TvsT didn't occur to her and that's normal for newbies. This of course doesn't show which her alignment is, but it's also not a strong enough case to go after her.