Death Curse

[shellyc]

me who didnt read half of the thread: bell read on LLD
bell: LLD is town but I disagree with their approaches
me: do you think LLD is being anti
bell: you're scum shelly

where did i ever say bell was SR on LLD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Their comment here is hard to misconstrue as an anti-lld sentiment. It's a "Taylor was saying we need more wagons and I wonder if maybe they're right".

Bells is WRONG here, but not for the reason you're implying.

so how did you come to this conclusion?

bell: theres a possibility that LLD is playing aggro and taylor is right
also bell: LLD is town

im not saying bell is SR on you
im saying bell is doubting your methods while townreading you

No. You're saying he's throwing suspicion on Noraa in order to look good, but he's not committing the vote because he's holding out for the wagon not going through. Is that what you're saying?

YES

Question: What is the value of Bell continuing that method right now with 9 votes on Noraa and a clear indication I am a rabid dog with my teeth sunk into her and I have no intention of letting her live past today?

Like, this question as a response to these two posts.

Let's say i understand your reasoning and position, now I'm questioning its validity. What is the motivation for Bell to behave in this manner?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

me who didnt read half of the thread: bell read on LLD
bell: LLD is town but I disagree with their approaches
me: do you think LLD is being anti
bell: you're scum shelly

where did i ever say bell was SR on LLD

"LLD is being anti-town" is akin to asking someone if you think someone is behaving in a scummy manner.

[shellyc]

Question: What is the value of Bell continuing that method right now with 9 votes on Noraa and a clear indication I am a rabid dog with my teeth sunk into her and I have no intention of letting her live past today?

because noraa is a really inconsistent town player and ive seen town noraa playing reeeeally scummy

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Question: What is the value of Bell continuing that method right now with 9 votes on Noraa and a clear indication I am a rabid dog with my teeth sunk into her and I have no intention of letting her live past today?

because noraa is a really inconsistent town player and ive seen town noraa playing reeeeally scummy

That's... not an answer to the question.

The question is what does Bell have to gain from soft protecting her when she's definitely going to die today anyway.

[shellyc]

me who didnt read half of the thread: bell read on LLD
bell: LLD is town but I disagree with their approaches
me: do you think LLD is being anti
bell: you're scum shelly

where did i ever say bell was SR on LLD

"LLD is being anti-town" is akin to asking someone if you think someone is behaving in a scummy manner.

anti town =! scummy
scummy = you think person is scum
anti town = you think person is damaging the town wincon, includes scummy people as well as lurkers/trolls/tunnellers sometimes.

[Lapsa]

Regarding Noraa my heart just dropped.

while not voting noraa

which is a very scummy move to look good for the cameras while trying to slow the wagon

Are you saying Bell is impeding the Noraa wagon, and he's trying to look good.. by not joining the wagon?

No. You're saying he's throwing suspicion on Noraa in order to look good, but he's not committing the vote because he's holding out for the wagon not going through. Is that what you're saying?

wtf is this

[shellyc]

The question is what does Bell have to gain from soft protecting her when she's definitely going to die today anyway.

Bell was soft protecting earlier when the wagon wasn't as fully blown as before.
They havent updated their read there.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Skipped the last page. I hit LLD's explanation of the perfect town play, and -- perfection. That was solid. I had to stop right there. LLD is basically confirmed town to me, I don't see a hole in that reasoning -- either the second person in the chain is scum (and we hit our 1-mark anyway so who gives a shit) or they aren't (and we get to work with them.) Yes I'm just restating the post I don't care it was that good.

In the first 13 pages I read, I came to the conclusion that Noraa is town but doomed and Tayl0r and LLD are town. LLD is, as far as I'm concerned, locktown until and unless I see undeniable, game-long associatives to the contrary. (FWIW, I see no associatives with any slot at all here unless that was the bravest and dumbest early game bus you ever did see on the back of probably the easiest player to explain as a mis-elim waiting to happen in history, so I'm going to go out on a limb and stretch real hard while saying that from my POV LLD is conftown and leave it at that.)

Tayl0r is more wavery, but this is identical to past Tayl0r play I've seen first-hand, so I'm going to stick with it. Tayl0r is a good player, but three things I've learned: her posts look iffy, her reasoning is complete garbo and her reads are pretty wonky (not unspeakably bad, just.... yeah). I'm going to say I don't think it's possible to use Tayl0r sucking at explaining herself as a scumtell. I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I think this is solid based on past experience.

If I was someone else or if it was someone else, I might try to defend Noraa's slot. But I don't think I can: the arguments have been put forward and the stage is set, Noraa's going down, I see no hope for her. Always possible to see a last minute wagon swap, but Noraa's play is poo and dirt. Doomed. Sorry bud.

Since there's no power roles unless I missed some whopping big habanero in some hidden fine print somewhere, my reads are going to be more confident than usual when I'm whiffing a scum scent. (Past performance indicates I almost always mixup scum and PRs, far less so VTs and scum.)

So then! Since I'll be more confident, how about those scumreads?...

Shelly and I have tangled in the past and I never win that scum matchup. She's elusive and I trust myself to read her play approximately 0%. Her town play is nigh indistinguishable from her scum play unless there's a binary choice to be made. I agree with uh, someone not sure who who said that knocking her out early is a good idea. She's a dangerous player to have around as scum, and while her intuition is good for town (I highly trust a conftown shelly's judgement), I get the feeling from past banter in this thread that this is going to be the sort of game where it's easy to just point at someone and watch half the town put on the Big Boots and go a-stomping. Big risk having her around.

But this isn't really a read, per se, now is it? No, it's just "meta suggests this player is scary." That said, it's just the closest I have at the moment. Lots of very light townreads and total nulls for me currently. This back and forth with Bell and shelly, normally the sort of thing I can get a ton of reads out of, is meaningless to me -- largely because Bell's play is not the play I have an easy time reading. Short posts and me disagree with each other, it's like feeding rice to water fowl, it just turns into a mess. Functionally, I have no read on Bell and that makes me nervous enough that I might want to add pressure and see if I can get content my brain can work with. We'll see if I see someone I'd prefer more for that, or maybe if I even find scum. It's happened once before, after all.

Future's boundless, folks, and anything might happen.

[Fidget]

im saying bell is doubting your methods while townreading you

which again, is a way to discredit the noraa push without going against town leader

This is some real puppermastery stuff. You think Bell is trying to subtly shade LDD's methods but not actually go against her with a full scumread in hopes that it somehow.. saves Noraa?

My issue with this read is the motivation. It's really not likely scum Bell is trying to save Noraa here. And this would be a really far-fetched way of going about it.

Regarding Noraa my heart just dropped.

while not voting noraa

which is a very scummy move to look good for the cameras while trying to slow the wagon

Are you saying Bell is impeding the Noraa wagon, and he's trying to look good.. by not joining the wagon?

No. You're saying he's throwing suspicion on Noraa in order to look good, but he's not committing the vote because he's holding out for the wagon not going through. Is that what you're saying?

wtf is this

Me making sure I'm understanding her right. Is there something in particular about it..?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The question is what does Bell have to gain from soft protecting her when she's definitely going to die today anyway.

Bell was soft protecting earlier when the wagon wasn't as fully blown as before.
They havent updated their read there.

Hmmm.

So why continue to do it instead of evolving their position to match a better result for them once it became clear which way the wind was blowing?

Or do you think Bell doesn't have the chops to know that the position they are taking, if that is their intent to soft defend, is untenable and is likely to lead to them dying?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Skipped the last page. I hit LLD's explanation of the perfect town play, and -- perfection. That was solid. I had to stop right there. LLD is basically confirmed town to me, I don't see a hole in that reasoning -- either the second person in the chain is scum (and we hit our 1-mark anyway so who gives a shit) or they aren't (and we get to work with them.) Yes I'm just restating the post I don't care it was that good.

In the first 13 pages I read, I came to the conclusion that Noraa is town but doomed and Tayl0r and LLD are town. LLD is, as far as I'm concerned, locktown until and unless I see undeniable, game-long associatives to the contrary. (FWIW, I see no associatives with any slot at all here unless that was the bravest and dumbest early game bus you ever did see on the back of probably the easiest player to explain as a mis-elim waiting to happen in history, so I'm going to go out on a limb and stretch real hard while saying that from my POV LLD is conftown and leave it at that.)

Tayl0r is more wavery, but this is identical to past Tayl0r play I've seen first-hand, so I'm going to stick with it. Tayl0r is a good player, but three things I've learned: her posts look iffy, her reasoning is complete garbo and her reads are pretty wonky (not unspeakably bad, just.... yeah). I'm going to say I don't think it's possible to use Tayl0r sucking at explaining herself as a scumtell. I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I think this is solid based on past experience.

If I was someone else or if it was someone else, I might try to defend Noraa's slot. But I don't think I can: the arguments have been put forward and the stage is set, Noraa's going down, I see no hope for her. Always possible to see a last minute wagon swap, but Noraa's play is poo and dirt. Doomed. Sorry bud.

Since there's no power roles unless I missed some whopping big habanero in some hidden fine print somewhere, my reads are going to be more confident than usual when I'm whiffing a scum scent. (Past performance indicates I almost always mixup scum and PRs, far less so VTs and scum.)

So then! Since I'll be more confident, how about those scumreads?...

Shelly and I have tangled in the past and I never win that scum matchup. She's elusive and I trust myself to read her play approximately 0%. Her town play is nigh indistinguishable from her scum play unless there's a binary choice to be made. I agree with uh, someone not sure who who said that knocking her out early is a good idea. She's a dangerous player to have around as scum, and while her intuition is good for town (I highly trust a conftown shelly's judgement), I get the feeling from past banter in this thread that this is going to be the sort of game where it's easy to just point at someone and watch half the town put on the Big Boots and go a-stomping. Big risk having her around.

But this isn't really a read, per se, now is it? No, it's just "meta suggests this player is scary." That said, it's just the closest I have at the moment. Lots of very light townreads and total nulls for me currently. This back and forth with Bell and shelly, normally the sort of thing I can get a ton of reads out of, is meaningless to me -- largely because Bell's play is not the play I have an easy time reading. Short posts and me disagree with each other, it's like feeding rice to water fowl, it just turns into a mess. Functionally, I have no read on Bell and that makes me nervous enough that I might want to add pressure and see if I can get content my brain can work with. We'll see if I see someone I'd prefer more for that, or maybe if I even find scum. It's happened once before, after all.

Future's boundless, folks, and anything might happen.

You're like... 5 points away from a gold star and a spot in the town bloc.

Answer me this: Why is Noraa town to you? You talk about a lot of different stuff here and granted I'm a fan of a few of the things you say, but you're really sparse on why you view Noraa as town (possibly because you think she's dead no matter what and it's not worth talking about?)

But if you're going to say something liek "I knew Noraa was town the whole time" I'd like to know why you think that NOW as opposed to post-humously, so I get a better sense of your brainwaves here.

So yeah. Why is Noraa town?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Yeah, you're bang on the money with about half of why I didn't explain. Other half is, well, most of it boils down to what Tayl0r said and VERY loose meta. That meta: Scum Noraa is immediately abrasive to my mind even when she's being nice, and I'm getting more of the OOC fluffy friendliness I would usually expect of her as town in this game.

I don't want to harp on points Tayl0r's already presented and everyone's dismissed, that helps nothing and annoys everyone. As for the meta, it's my brain-worms and no one else's that are going to get that ping, and I can't exactly stick everyone inside of my head and let them see what I see. That's a dead end, hopeless defense as well. Nothing I can do for Noraa here. She's doomed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah, you're bang on the money with about half of why I didn't explain. Other half is, well, most of it boils down to what Tayl0r said and VERY loose meta. That meta: Scum Noraa is immediately abrasive to my mind even when she's being nice, and I'm getting more of the OOC fluffy friendliness I would usually expect of her as town in this game.

I don't want to harp on points Tayl0r's already presented and everyone's dismissed, that helps nothing and annoys everyone. As for the meta, it's my brain-worms and no one else's that are going to get that ping, and I can't exactly stick everyone inside of my head and let them see what I see. That's a dead end, hopeless defense as well. Nothing I can do for Noraa here. She's doomed.

So gut feeling and meta read.

Yeah okay. I get why you didn't bother wasting the breath in having me tell you that meta is trash and I don't swear by it and blah blah blah.

Still, was worth hearing the answer for the sake of my sanity. You can join the townbloc I'm making. I'm p. sure I like your posting, not that this townbloc is a forever thing anyway. It's more like "these are people I don't really want dead while I'm alive which probably isn't long." bloc

[Tayl0r Swift]

mush being obvtown is new for me. this game brings many new experiences.

[Gloria Cleary]

---

Hectic rubbed his hands together in anticipation. It was his first year anniversary on the job, and he was about to unleash his greatest game yet on the world. He'd triple checked the role PMs 7 times, and was positive he'd got everything right.

He leaned back, relaxed, and waited for everyone to confirm.

His thoughts were interrupted as Isis stormed into his cubicle.

"Isis! I had a feeling I was due for a promotion. I'm guessing you want me to moderate Team Mafia?"

Isis sighed. "You've sent NorweiganboyEE a scum role PM, and he's not even in your game."

"R-really? Sorry about that, I don't, uh, I really don't know how that slipped through the cracks..." Hectic mumbled.

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

Hectic frowned. Perhaps moderating wasn't as easy as the listmods had advertised it to be.

---

This post is hilarious btw.

[Fidget]

In my loose experience, scum!Noraa aggressively points the finger at people constantly, whereas town!Noraa at least is unsure on some reads. I imagine scum!Noraa shouting about how confident and sure she is someone is scum as they go down, whereas town!Noraa might be unsure, feel bad, and hedgey on what the flip will be.

There is overlap though because Noraa in general tends to be quite erratic and aggressive. I'm unsure if my theory on her being less certain == towny is true but it's worked at least a couple times so far.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

---

Hectic rubbed his hands together in anticipation. It was his first year anniversary on the job, and he was about to unleash his greatest game yet on the world. He'd triple checked the role PMs 7 times, and was positive he'd got everything right.

He leaned back, relaxed, and waited for everyone to confirm.

His thoughts were interrupted as Isis stormed into his cubicle.

"Isis! I had a feeling I was due for a promotion. I'm guessing you want me to moderate Team Mafia?"

Isis sighed. "You've sent NorweiganboyEE a scum role PM, and he's not even in your game."

"R-really? Sorry about that, I don't, uh, I really don't know how that slipped through the cracks..." Hectic mumbled.

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

Hectic frowned. Perhaps moderating wasn't as easy as the listmods had advertised it to be.

---

This post is hilarious btw.

Hi friend.

Comments and reads on the goings on in the thread as of so far?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I haven't brought out my patented "explain nothing, act ultra mysterious and lean very hard on someone while loudly yelling 'I'm not scumreading you, I'm not scumreading you'" technique yet, Tayl0r. I need to pick someone I think it'll work on first, and that's a toughie in this game. I'm sure I'll throw all my towncred out in getting a dozen rich associative reads before 24 hours pass, don't you worry.

[Gloria Cleary]

---

Hectic rubbed his hands together in anticipation. It was his first year anniversary on the job, and he was about to unleash his greatest game yet on the world. He'd triple checked the role PMs 7 times, and was positive he'd got everything right.

He leaned back, relaxed, and waited for everyone to confirm.

His thoughts were interrupted as Isis stormed into his cubicle.

"Isis! I had a feeling I was due for a promotion. I'm guessing you want me to moderate Team Mafia?"

Isis sighed. "You've sent NorweiganboyEE a scum role PM, and he's not even in your game."

"R-really? Sorry about that, I don't, uh, I really don't know how that slipped through the cracks..." Hectic mumbled.

"You've also given half of your players mod permissions. Somebody's plagiarised post 2 with Sans playing the trombone. Fix this mess, Hectic, we don't pay you to be incompetent."

Hectic frowned. Perhaps moderating wasn't as easy as the listmods had advertised it to be.

---

This post is hilarious btw.

Hi friend.

Comments and reads on the goings on in the thread as of so far?

Not as of yet sorry. I will as soon as I read the game.

[Bell]

In my loose experience, scum!Noraa aggressively points the finger at people constantly, whereas town!Noraa at least is unsure on some reads. I imagine scum!Noraa shouting about how confident and sure she is someone is scum as they go down, whereas town!Noraa might be unsure, feel bad, and hedgey on what the flip will be.

There is overlap though because Noraa in general tends to be quite erratic and aggressive. I'm unsure if my theory on her being less certain == towny is true but it's worked at least a couple times so far.

This would have been very helpful in a different rvs.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I am concerned about Isis content

I bookmarked the topic!!!

I am concerned Scholarship Student.

[Bell]

@isis you okay over there?
Busy or something?

[shellyc]

mush being obvtown is new for me. this game brings many new experiences.

re: mush
I think they're usually rather obvtown (and they're still like that now)
paranoia after space was likely
i think their theory of noraa is town but doomed is wrong but scum wouldn't do that, they just bus
their proactiveness/effort is also hard to fake as scum
im town on mush aorn but even if they're scum im confident in my abilities to sort their alignment

[shellyc]

gloria you an alt or hydra?

pooky thoughts on bell right now
do you see what I'm seeing