Mafiascum.net

In post 383, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:

In post 380, Gamma Emerald wrote:

In post 349, Almost50 wrote:Q: Am I allowed to live in my own world under my own dome for a few seconds?? Cuz if I was I'd bet the game on the Mafia being of 3 members, and my solve would be precisely Gamma/Kerset/Heaven

Gamma comes in pushing a very "strange" meta-driven case on me (forgive me for calling it a case), and Kerset hops on it. Gamma backs off, Kerset falls back into the shadows, and Heaven takes on the spearhead position with yet another inexplicable "case".

My point is SCUM!GAMMA would be afraid of me. He tries to push me in hopes I'd react in a way that could be taken advantage of. Kerset sneaks in to aid him (knowing the reason behind this behaviour from their PT), but since I didn't react in a way that would justify Gamma's push on me he walks it back, but still wants me out so Heaven now can lead the campaign under the guise they don't know me (or anyone else) so cannot be blamed for taking this stance.

Well, I've got news for you: I ain't going down today, so lay off and try another approach.

Now I can go out of my dome and realize the whole world doesn't actually revolve around me, but not before I posted this to refer to in post-game.

Here we go!
Yeah I think A50 is towntelling a bit with this
Question for the monkey: Who's mafia in the case of a 2 mafia team?

what do you mean by "towntelling"?

- lilith

I think the complex thought process feels pretty towny
Keep in mind though: this post could absolutely come from SK as well, and I think my inclination is to read SKs as town, if LN 231 was any indication. I just don't think it's a mafia post rn

In post 394, Gamma Emerald wrote:had to go back to reference the specific post

In post 231, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Apologies to heaven as I’m about to get into some discussion of past games, but I promise it’s all relevant

quick summary of cakes’ and my games together over the past year or so: he’s rolled town in I think every game we’ve played together, I’ve rolled a mix of scum and town. We’ve also hydra-ed together (once as scum and twice as town iirc).

I would say it’s something of a running joke that I “fooled” him in my scumgames against him, and in the next game he always brings it up and says “lilith I won’t trust you anymore” or something to that effect. He didn’t even attempt to interact with me here and he didn’t bring up the fact that he also messaged me about hydra-ing for this game until like 20 posts ago, way after I started poking at/voting him. I would’ve expected cakes to bring up our most recent game together, in which I was scum and he was town, and which ended not very long ago; I would’ve expected him to enter with immediate paranoia about me — instead he straight up ignored me and ignored my vote until there was basically too large of a wagon on him to ignore. In his responses to me he is solely defensive and doesn’t question my motivations at all. His voting heaven made me vote him because that was the point where I started feeling like it felt “wrong” that he hadn’t expressed any paranoia on me or interacted with me at all.

- lilith

I feel like I get the sort of mindset behind the sort of opening you expected, and via that I'm thinking it could have to do with Cake being otherwise occupied when doing his entrance
to explain another way, I tend to like doing RVS entrances that go off past meta with someone in the game. The issue is, I pretty much only get one chance to use any one entrance, so I might decide I want to use something else in a case where I could have used a meta joke. As such, I'm wondering whether there was something on Cakez's mind that impacted his willingness to open with the "I'm not trusting lilith" line
Plus, his explanation of already kinda TRing you maybe makes sense, even though the timeline is off? My concern is why not make the jokey entrance anyway?

cakes made the first post of the game, I'm not sure what else you think would have been on his mind at that point

it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

- lilith

I think dwlee's probably town for the sense of humor I'm seeing

what do you think cakes was townreading me for in the early game (before I brought up why I was voting him)?

- lilith

In post 402, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:

In post 394, Gamma Emerald wrote:had to go back to reference the specific post

In post 231, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:Apologies to heaven as I’m about to get into some discussion of past games, but I promise it’s all relevant

quick summary of cakes’ and my games together over the past year or so: he’s rolled town in I think every game we’ve played together, I’ve rolled a mix of scum and town. We’ve also hydra-ed together (once as scum and twice as town iirc).

I would say it’s something of a running joke that I “fooled” him in my scumgames against him, and in the next game he always brings it up and says “lilith I won’t trust you anymore” or something to that effect. He didn’t even attempt to interact with me here and he didn’t bring up the fact that he also messaged me about hydra-ing for this game until like 20 posts ago, way after I started poking at/voting him. I would’ve expected cakes to bring up our most recent game together, in which I was scum and he was town, and which ended not very long ago; I would’ve expected him to enter with immediate paranoia about me — instead he straight up ignored me and ignored my vote until there was basically too large of a wagon on him to ignore. In his responses to me he is solely defensive and doesn’t question my motivations at all. His voting heaven made me vote him because that was the point where I started feeling like it felt “wrong” that he hadn’t expressed any paranoia on me or interacted with me at all.

- lilith

I feel like I get the sort of mindset behind the sort of opening you expected, and via that I'm thinking it could have to do with Cake being otherwise occupied when doing his entrance
to explain another way, I tend to like doing RVS entrances that go off past meta with someone in the game. The issue is, I pretty much only get one chance to use any one entrance, so I might decide I want to use something else in a case where I could have used a meta joke. As such, I'm wondering whether there was something on Cakez's mind that impacted his willingness to open with the "I'm not trusting lilith" line
Plus, his explanation of already kinda TRing you maybe makes sense, even though the timeline is off? My concern is why not make the jokey entrance anyway?

cakes made the first post of the game, I'm not sure what else you think would have been on his mind at that point

it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

- lilith

okay, in that case your point stands
following that, I'd like your input on my point that Cakez's reaction to the tell when it was still unspoken moreso resembles his reaction to the Noraa soul read from hidden temple than his reaction to the meta read that got him eliminated in Xenoblade 2 mafia (which you'll probably have to look over since I don't recall you being involved in that in any way initially)

In post 404, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:what do you think cakes was townreading me for in the early game (before I brought up why I was voting him)?

- lilith

I admit I didn't apprise myself of the full context and as such made an erroneous statement. There is no way he could have townread you so early to not have made that comment you expected.

In post 275, Gamma Emerald wrote:What thing?

You know...

(This was referring to 231, which lilith had previously alluded to in 209 by saying I didn't want her to share it yet.)

-S

In post 362, Gamma Emerald wrote:iirc you were in Xenoblade 2, is that the game you're talking about as Cakez's scum game?

I was not in Xenoblade 2. The game I'm referring to is this one... which was over five years ago.

-S

my "i feel like i should and/or would be scumreading cakez here but i don't" feeling keeps going strong. while i to think bork made some good-looking points against him in 288 and 302. what's kind of worrying me is that he seems to be making points for scum!cakez, but then seemingly immediately walks back from them / ignores them in his own read, and idek.

@bork, what's your actual current read on cakez? also, why'd you like me brining up the ic (267)?

in other news, i am still not townreading limit. like, i feel like town!lilith should be obvtown when town, and i am still not feeling it here? like i know yesterday i unvoted them after discussion, but having slept on it i'm not *feeling* it. like, i couldn't point at a single thing and say "this is scummy", it just feels like overall she's struggling to replicate her usual town-self?

In post 335, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:

In post 245, Datisi wrote:whenever cakez posted things, i thought the post sounds like something i would scumread. yet in my heart i do not scumread cakez.

This is just... how I identify town-Cakez. The more blatantly scummier he sounds, the more likely he is to be town.

I haven't played against scum-him in a

very

long time (I don't think?), but this method has worked for me so far. (And it would have worked in that game where he was scum, though I didn't apply it then and actually horribly misread him. That was kinda what led me to discover this.)

-S

okay, so... do you think cakez is acting like that in this game? do you think he's town?

i like 349? though it has been a long long while since i've seen scum!a50.

@a50, considering i'm not in your solve, have you finally come around to being able to read me?

In post 369, Dwlee99 wrote:Y'all have to understand what happened in Noughts and Crosses to get it, but it was mostly tongue-in-cheek anyway.

is there a reason why a period of silence from you is followed by a joke that doesn't really add anything onto the discussion?

highly dislike 394 and 395 from gamma. there is some sorta vibe from them, posting for the sake of posting, trying to appear busy, etc.

In post 402, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

this reminds me of something - in a different game, i was playing with a person who i usually always vote and joke around with in rvs. that game, my entrance was a naked vote on another person rather than the usual rvs-joke-vote. later on, we started scumreading each other, and one of his points was that i didn't do my usual rvs-joke. we were both town. so like, i feel like there shouldn't be too much weight put on someone's entrance like this?

In post 404, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:what do you think cakes was townreading me for in the early game (before I brought up why I was voting him)?

- lilith

could cakez comment on this?

In post 409, Datisi wrote:is there a reason why a period of silence from you is followed by a joke that doesn't really add anything onto the discussion?

I also told y'all I can't contribute if all we are doing is meta which you ignored for some reason.

In post 410, Dwlee99 wrote:

In post 409, Datisi wrote:is there a reason why a period of silence from you is followed by a joke that doesn't really add anything onto the discussion?

I also told y'all I can't contribute if all we are doing is meta which you ignored for some reason.

i saw that post. that wasn't what i was asking.

If you read that post you have your answer.

Also about an hour before the joke post I reiterated my scum read on Cakez in light of some of the discussion about him thinking the push on him was for bad reasons.

so... i should assume you're scum who's using "boohoo everyone is talking nothing but meta i have nothing to say" as an excuse to not contribute?

pedit: hm, i might've missed it in my initial read, and i remember reopening your iso and misreading that post as 13 hours prior rather than 1 hour prior. though i don't think it highly negates my point. if you're finding the meta talk hard to follow (and don't get me wrong, i feel like i didn't get much out of those pages either), why are you defaulting to crossing your arms and giving up as opposed to trying to steer the conversation in a to you more productive manner?

Me saying I hate the meta talk and want it to stop is steering the conversation.

complaining: "meta is bad, i'm not getting anything out of it."

steering the conversation: "meta is bad, i'm not getting anything out of it. why don't we talk about x instead? i have y read on z person, does anyone agree/disagree?"

In post 230, Dwlee99 wrote:Meta is bad stop using it so much.

In post 378, Dwlee99 wrote:The way you all are just constantly using meta here is making the game extremely hard for me to follow or get anything out of.

Datisi wrote:complaining: "meta is bad, i'm not getting anything out of it."

steering the conversation: "meta is bad, i'm not getting anything out of it. why don't we talk about x instead? i have y read on z person, does anyone agree/disagree?"

I mean sure I could have done that... except I felt completely disconnected from the game because of meta being the entirety of the post-RVS stage. I said my thing about my read on Cakez and I have already expressed my read on Kerset but I'm focused on Cakez right now.

Crap, I uploaded the wrong image. One sec.

In post 409, Datisi wrote:in other news, i am still not townreading limit. like, i feel like town!lilith should be obvtown when town, and i am still not feeling it here? like i know yesterday i unvoted them after discussion, but having slept on it i'm not *feeling* it. like, i couldn't point at a single thing and say "this is scummy", it just feels like overall she's struggling to replicate her usual town-self?

?????? ok vote me again then

In post 402, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

this reminds me of something - in a different game, i was playing with a person who i usually always vote and joke around with in rvs. that game, my entrance was a naked vote on another person rather than the usual rvs-joke-vote. later on, we started scumreading each other, and one of his points was that i didn't do my usual rvs-joke. we were both town. so like, i feel like there shouldn't be too much weight put on someone's entrance like this?

Do you think it is possible that cakes was avoiding interacting with me, maybe hoping that I wouldn’t pay that much attention to him? The lack of interaction in rvs is only one part of that. The lack of response to my vote is a second part of that. When he finally did respond to me, his initial response was defensive (“I do x thing”) and didn’t question my motivation. Then his answer about not finding me suspicious and therefore responding only defensively feels like he made it up after the fact to explain why he hadn’t been treating me with paranoia. Can you give thoughts on all of that instead of one post I made with the specific purpose of picking gamma’s argument apart?

- lilith

In post 420, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:

In post 409, Datisi wrote:in other news, i am still not townreading limit. like, i feel like town!lilith should be obvtown when town, and i am still not feeling it here? like i know yesterday i unvoted them after discussion, but having slept on it i'm not *feeling* it. like, i couldn't point at a single thing and say "this is scummy", it just feels like overall she's struggling to replicate her usual town-self?

?????? ok vote me again then

lilith, do you know what a "nullread" is

In post 420, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:

In post 402, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:it was a naked vote on dwlee, so I also am very skeptical that this was supposed to be some kind of planned entrance that overshadowed his usual MO of joking with me

this reminds me of something - in a different game, i was playing with a person who i usually always vote and joke around with in rvs. that game, my entrance was a naked vote on another person rather than the usual rvs-joke-vote. later on, we started scumreading each other, and one of his points was that i didn't do my usual rvs-joke. we were both town. so like, i feel like there shouldn't be too much weight put on someone's entrance like this?

Do you think it is possible that cakes was avoiding interacting with me, maybe hoping that I wouldn’t pay that much attention to him? The lack of interaction in rvs is only one part of that. The lack of response to my vote is a second part of that. When he finally did respond to me, his initial response was defensive (“I do x thing”) and didn’t question my motivation. Then his answer about not finding me suspicious and therefore responding only defensively feels like he made it up after the fact to explain why he hadn’t been treating me with paranoia. Can you give thoughts on all of that instead of one post I made with the specific purpose of picking gamma’s argument apart?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i mean, sure, it's possible. when you write it out neatly like that, i can agree cakez looks bad. i'm not saying he doesn't. but i already gave you my thoughts - yes i agree he doesn't look great, but i just don't agree with a "scumread" because i do not believe in it. trust me, i am *acutely* aware how big of a hole i'm digging myself into right now in the event that he flips red, which may not be unlikely. but i cannot lie and tell you that i have a scumread on cakez when i just don't.

also i'm in the process of questioning him about it, so. no need to get angry so quickly.

confused and frustrated, sure. Where exactly am I being angry? I am legitimately doing my best to not lash out at people in games.

- lilith

“trying to replicate townself” inherently implies someone is scum, no?

In post 422, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:confused and frustrated, sure. Where exactly am I being angry? I am legitimately doing my best to not lash out at people in games.

idk, "?????? ok vote me again then" and "Can you give thoughts on all of that instead of one post I made with the specific purpose of picking gamma’s argument apart?" felt angry to me, but maybe it's me failing basic emotional comprehension again.

In post 423, The Limit Does Not Exist wrote:“trying to replicate townself” inherently implies someone is scum, no?

ehh, not in my mind, though reading back i can kinda see how it could be read like that.

lilith, do you have an opinion on my alignment yet? it's difficult to tell if you're thinking i'm a vi or a cakez-scumbuddy.