Mini Normal 2216 | Screaming | Post-game!

[humaneatingmonkey]

BambiJay is obvscum so that's always next day's elim. I'll decide about boxxy tomorrow. I think I'll have to revisit Salsabil. MaxTheFox is still probably scum too.

[humaneatingmonkey]

BambiJay hammering Almost50 and not MaxTheFox just makes me think they're partners here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Town,
please read this game carefully.

what about it

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think eliminating in the order a50 > Bambi > Max > Kerset wins the game.

Still stand by this

As long as we're in agreement about Bambi and Max.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bambi being the next elim. Max being a potential scum. What's your read on Salsabil? I think I need to revisit her.

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is why I didn't want a hammer so soon. There's only one scum between Bambi and A50, if there is. They had an interaction that was unlikely to happen if they had daytalk. I was going to prefer Bambi before A50, but MaxTheFox before the two. Although now, I think Bambi Jay is obvscum and should get instaelimmed tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Salsabil, why did you SR A50?

[humaneatingmonkey]

But since I townread him anyway this is probably a town rant.

lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

@A50: I have my own thoughts on Salsabil, but I don't want to answer on her behalf about it. Her answer could help me read her.

[humaneatingmonkey]

GREAT JOB, VIG!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Who was the vig?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[humaneatingmonkey]

We have 3 miselims. If we lose this, we are dumb. I will never elim Dwlee, Kerset, the claimed vig, and obviously, me. I think we should go MaxTheFox → T3 → Salsabil (in the case of a deepwolf)

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry I said that wrong. I forgot about nightkills. We only have 1 miselim left.

[humaneatingmonkey]

5v1 → Elim/NK → 3v1 → Elim/NK → 1v1 (Mafia Win)

[humaneatingmonkey]

If vig is one-shot, he shouldn't claim unless E-1'd.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I mean, if vig is NOT one-shot, he shouldn't claim unless E-1'd.

5v1 → Elim/NK/Vig → 2v1 (ELo)

[humaneatingmonkey]

If vig is one-shot, he should claim now to avoid a CC in ELo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have a strong opinion that Kerset is town. I am partial about T3, but leaning town. I think Salsa could have been playing a deepwolf game if Max is not scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

on N2, that's practically meaningless, especially if she's a mafia PR. I just think Max wins the game lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

Waiting for everybody to post before we elim anyone.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hello. MaxTheFox → T3 → Salsabil Faria is my final solve.

MaxTheFox for obvious reasons.

T3... I honestly don't know why I'm townreading this slot. He has never voted for cyrus or Bambi Jay. He was behind both Seanzie (boldly declaring himself to be locktown for getting a 'townslip' but didnt really unvote — reminiscent of Sigmund from Mini 2214) and Almost50 (who he didn't express any scumread before, and gave a weak reason to hammer). I also think he meant to hammer Max in #1624 which would be very sus because he expressed a townread on him in #1510.

Salsabil Faria, I have no strong reasons to townread for except for an emotional and tonal read (which Dwlee mentioned could be faked. Heck, it's my specialty). Can't rule out that she could have bussed cyrus and Bambi Jay to go for the deepwolf route — especially with that clutch Almost50 vote switch. She still looks significantly better than MaxTheFox and T3, though.

If the vig didn't exist between Salsabil or T3, it will be very difficult to be sure between the two but ultimately T3 is the smarter choice in LYLO.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think scum aren't likely to bring up that there are too many power roles — they let someone else react to that so they can fish for reactions. Kerset has brought it up.
I also think there's little chance that scum would call out another town for confbiasing on town without necessarily shading that slot. Kerset has done that with nomnomnom and Seanzie without shading nomnomnom.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why T3, Max?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Bruh why would you put HEM as your top scumread?

Max, did you scumread Bambi because she had me as her top scumread?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thank you Salsabil. MaxTheFox → T3 it is.

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[humaneatingmonkey]

actually UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

let's wait for kerset

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yep yep. What's your read on Kerset?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry if this was a very hard game for you Max.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're good, Salsabil. I believe you. No need to justify your A50 vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just focus on sorting between MaxTheFox, T3, and Kerset.

[humaneatingmonkey]

will do the same as I did against Bambi

lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

Max, I'm building a case on you right now and I just want to sympathize with you if you're scum for a hot minute. I realize you're new, and you're in a very hot seat right now. It's a very hard game, especially when you have a bulldog-type player like me hounding at you. I want you to know that this isn't personal, and I hope I can see you in more games after this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And if you're town. Don't worry. We're gonna win this game and you can now cite this game as reference for your town game

[humaneatingmonkey]

MaxTheFox

Motivation + Progression

TL;DR MaxTheFox lacks the vibe that she's solving the game, and not just appearing to solve the game. All the reads MaxTheFox are based on gut and it's impossible to differentiate that with bullshitting. Gut-based players exist, and they can be town. But what's special about MaxTheFox is: She can't explain how she got her gut reads. And when she quotes posts and cites examples, she does not make sense at all.

• Not interacting with the posts of players and including them in her considerations.
• When she gives reads of people, it's really selective and there's a lack of effort in sorting every slot — as town would.

• She suggested looking in Cyrus' wagon for bussers, but didn't actually try herself. She said it's because she was discouraged when she was wrong about cyrus being town — I don't think town are easily discouraged by being wrong.

• In #1046, MaxTheFox said boxxy's recent posts reeked of scum but boxxy hasn't really posted since #973... In addition, boxxy's posting since #880 was fine and didn't have anything about them that was scummy.

• In #1472, MaxTheFox said that Bambi is town because she seems helpful, providing reads, helping solve the game, and most importantly it doesn't seem forced. She got this from her ISO and particularly #1351, based on "intuition". Read it. It was not really a post that anyone would townread.
• In #1646, MaxThe Fox actually deepdives Bambi Jay's ISO — proving that she really didn't read the ISO the first time and that she was just bullshitting.
• In #1646, MaxTheFox scumreads Bambi Jay for having me as her top scumread. This is TMI. How is she so sure that I'm town? Her read on me was that she doesn't think town would have this playstyle. That's not a very confident read.
• In #1646, MaxTheFox just quotes random Bambi Jay posts and calls it scum with no explanation and calls it gut. But she only has her on "scumlean".

• Meanwhile, her Almost50 case is on a strong cemented confident scumread for (a) tone, (b) being active, (c) being jumpy as shit.
• In #1472, MaxTheFox said A50 was almost silent Day 1, but suddenly became more active when Cyrus was hanged. She interprets this as a partner picking up the slack after their partner dies. Problem is: It's not actually accurate. A50 was loud in his catch-up on Day 1.
• She answers all my questions except #1642, where I asked "How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation?" Because she can't answer that.

Associative

MaxTheFox has positive partner interactions with both Cyrus and Bambi Jay.

• In 523, MaxTheFox blurts out an unexplained Cyrus townreaad on a gutread.
• In 1362, Bambi Jay puts HEM, Salsa, Dwlee on her elimpool. Mentions that her Salsa and Dwlee scumread also applies to MaxTheFox, but she makes an exception that "she got screwed by the fast day".
• In 1369, Bambi Jay remarks: "That's alot of sudden Max support from me reminding y'all she exists." This reads like a "Hey woah, slow down!"
• In1407, Bambi Jay does a perspective slip when she forgets that MaxTheFox hasn't claimed yet and can still claim detective.
• In 1511, Bambi Jay poorly explains the slip and demonstrates TMI when he explains that he assumes MaxTheFox is VT because "she clearly isn't invested enough" — even though she already mentioned that MaxTheFox could have been just screwed.
• In 1546, Bambi Jay defends against a MaxTheFox lynch by remarking that her mislynch could put us in ELo — like she's appealing that we reconsider.
• Bambi Jay hammers Almost50, but not MaxTheFox.

Emotional

• At #1472, MaxTheFox gets flustered when she said she was VT and said "she's probably gonna die" even though she wasn't in the chopping block and that we were just massclaiming. She said she felt nervous because pressure was building on her. It was, but she reacted in way that's more likely for caught scum to react.

Bonus

• At #1498, MaxTheFox scumslips when she said "My town playstyle didn't form yet, really." She is speaking in past tense, and doesn't have the POV that she's town in the present.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3... I honestly don't know why I'm townreading this slot. He has never voted for cyrus or Bambi Jay. He was behind both Seanzie (boldly declaring himself to be locktown for getting a 'townslip' but didnt really unvote — reminiscent of Sigmund from Mini 2214) and Almost50 (who he didn't express any scumread before, and gave a weak reason to hammer). I also think he meant to hammer Max in #1624 which would be very sus because he expressed a townread on him in #1510.

Meanwhile, this is my T3 case.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Waiting for Kerset and T3 to acknowledge Salsabil's claim so we're sure we have no counterclaims.

Intent to hammer MaxTheFox if she reaches E-1

Prediction: MaxTheFox won't post again until post-game, and it's okay. Let her rest. It's a hard game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

• She answers all my questions except #1642, where I asked "How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation?" Because she can't answer that.

Oops sorry, this isn't true at all. She answered it.

This is the entire thread:

I am re-reading Bambi's ISO and my TR on her is just... eroding. I don't know why I originally TRed her. Many of her other posts are either filler or scum.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

He didn't, he just jumped between several claims over the course of 3 days. I just don't see why town would make themself hard to read like that.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

1. Because last time I didn't read as deep into Bambi.
2. I... didn't? By fitting the situtation I meant that he seemed to jump to a VT claim as soon as we started considering POEing invest claims.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm having this crazy idea.... what if

humaneatingmonkey

is the deep wolf here???

Case me then

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, not really. Throw the towel

[humaneatingmonkey]

My case on him is that:
1. Him becoming much more active after Cyrus's death seems like a scum picking up the slack after a buddy died.
2. I don't see town being so jumpy with claims.
3. I generally don't like his tone.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset put MaxTheFox out of her misery

[humaneatingmonkey]

why people (HEM the call maker) suspect me but don't talk about dwlee at all.

lol i'm the only one defending you as town. also, D3 wasn't my call at all. if it were, we would have elimmed between Bambi Jay and MaxTheFox.

[humaneatingmonkey]

God just end the game guys it's obviously MaxTheFox why are you guys doing this

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, copy paste this:

Code: Select all

[vote]MaxTheFox[/vote]

[humaneatingmonkey]

MaxTheFox, cyrus62, Bambi Jay (exclude Day 4)

Didn't realize this started until today, woops.

Anyways, hello everyone! I am semi-new but I played one game already (I was scum there) and read a bunch of games before. The game in question: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642

Why scum!

Fox

will start with sharing her scum game (to everyone except

Fox

herself)? Her

scum-intro

in that game:

Alrighty, this is the first game I didn't get replaced out of. I did read a lot of games before. Ahem.

VOTE: JohnyFarrar for wagoning NFP early.

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Did you talk about

Seanzie

here? If so, what were you thinking that about him?

Possibly unpopular opinion. Cyrus is town. Read only the first few pages though, still reading.

Mention those

1st few pages

posts where you saw town!him.

I'd also like to refer to this thread
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=85510
If the NRG deemed his setup to be weak with a real invest (Town Neap) I doubt the NRG approves a setup where roaming det gets to be our invest this game, assuming this is it

Consider: another weak incest like, IDK, a voyeur or something. Wouldn't that be balanced then?

You have decent knowledge about game mechanisms I see, then why it was tough for you to form opinions early? Even if I give you benifit of the doubt for being new, you couldn't form opinions on Day 3 also.

Is this the best you can do?

Yes. I'm sorry but I'm new. This is my best attept at solving.

Max do you have more thoughtsTM? Have you caught up?

I was AFK for a while. But basically I skimmed the thread. Early Cyrus vs nomnomnom is TvT I think.

Maybe because I wasn't interacting with the thread early it's hard for me to form opinions.

i would prefer the word scum to wolf. as i feel like im being flat out called a lier or a cheat or cut throat, back stabber. i may have over reacted but wolf to me , means a lot more then mafia.

"Mafia" is more suitable on MAFIAscum, I agree. However, the game was originally called Wolf (I think) and many other sites use the term Wolf instead of Mafia/Scum. (I personally dislike the name Wolf because -to me- it's a different alignment than Mafia, but that's just me.)

Actually it

was

Mafia originally and still is in some countries (it's a Russian game) but it is more popular in America as "Werewolf".

Did you ever play any forum mafia on other sites? Or any kind of mafia game on anywhere?

Meanwhile I'm reading your scum game, there you were confident from the 1st post but here you started with playing the newb player card.

I think I noticed, you didn't have any direct interaction with

cyrus62

at all while both of you were online.

so now that thats done as i said boxy isnt lieing. so check monkey to see why he wanted to lynch a pr.

why though

im the type of guy who plays fair. good job . town good job.

fatia isnt scum trust me.

This literally just sounds like throwing? Or the worst WIFOM ever. The worst wine nobody would even drink.

So honestly for now I'll assume anything he said is pointless to find his partners.
Or that's what he wants you to think.

Between your 743 to this post,

Bambi

made tons of posts but you only responded this:

Or that's what he wants you to think.

How I read this post is you suggested

Bambi

to take scum!

cyrus62

's posts seriously? Or you thought he mentioned his scum partners in those posts?

I want to let boxxy live but his recent posts kinda reek of scum.

Do you have any other reads?

Bambi is town. I can feel it. I can't quite explain why though.

Can you explain it now?

Edit: that's alot of sudden Max support from me reminding y'all she exists.

Alright, I am less busy now. Should talk more. Sorry for lurking.

Timing is questionable.

Is that it, MaxTheFox? That's too little. I would like you to act as if you're a replacement into your slot and catch-up, explain the reads you had blurted out, roleclaim, and tell us who is scum.

The explanation for my read on Bambi is that Bambi just seems helpful. Providing reads. Helping solve the game. And most importantly it doesn't seem forced.

Exactly what you did on your scum game. So you.should.know, if a player is helpful, doesn't necessarily mean they are town.

I am willing to get hanged the next day if A50 turns out to be town. But I doubt. I don't see a townie being so jumpy.

The explanation for my read on Bambi is that Bambi just seems helpful. Providing reads. Helping solve the game. And most importantly it doesn't seem forced.

What posts from Bambi does it give you the impression that they're helpful, providing reads, helping solve the game, etc.? And why is Bambi Jay more distinctly town vs Almost50 or anyone else in the playerlist?

It's just the feeling I get from her ISO? This... I don't feel scum would make this post. Call it my intuition.

What part? Not shooting me?

I would've shot my slot personally as scum. Killing a lurker slot gives nothin away. But I know for sure if Almost is scum he wouldn't kill me cuz it's more with me alive and vice versa. Use that info how you will.

So Kyouko's death wasn't to hide themselves very well. It had a purpose.

This is however immediately soiled with

Yeah a mass claim now kinda helps. First off though I guess I got an idea. If we all say the 3 people we want the most gone out of us 9, we can narrow down our pool significantly. Tally the votes and shit.

Like for me it would be
HEM
Salsa
Dwlee

The bottom two just feel fillersy. Probs could say the same about Max but of everyone she seems the most screwed from the short first days. Let's not go wild I guess this time and think things through.

Bruh why would you put HEM as your top scumread?

And I'm transparent that I meme around even claiming a shitty role when y'all know I'm a VT since I already admitted to wanting to bite the bullet earlier. I would've shot you anyway if I was a vig. I'm trigger happy.

Anyway I'm off to bed.

Now unlike with invest claims I can't really see scum back out of a vig claim. Too much risk.

However.

I am re-reading Bambi's ISO and my TR on her is just... eroding. I don't know why I originally TRed her. Many of her other posts are either filler or scum.
I really hate the tone of this in particular.

Why do you all keep going for me or my townreads? This is saddening.

Box doesn't trust me. Monkey sure as heck doesn't trust me. Salsa doesn't. Dwlee and Max are wall decorations.

T3 and Almost seem to be the guys who I can trust here. And unless I'm double pocketed by the scum team I'm sure I'm right here.

Consider Bambi another scumlean from me now.

Why didn't you unvote

Almost50

that time when you were taking a pause I suppose?

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

He didn't, he just jumped between several claims over the course of 3 days. I just don't see why town would make themself hard to read like that.

Which

Bambi

also did, then why she couldn't be your top scumread like

Almost50

?

EBWOP

nice

[humaneatingmonkey]

MaxTheFox, cyrus62, Bambi Jay (exclude Day 4)

Didn't realize this started until today, woops.

Anyways, hello everyone! I am semi-new but I played one game already (I was scum there) and read a bunch of games before. The game in question: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86642

Why scum!

Fox

will start with sharing her scum game (to everyone except

Fox

herself)? Her

scum-intro

in that game:

Alrighty, this is the first game I didn't get replaced out of. I did read a lot of games before. Ahem.

VOTE: JohnyFarrar for wagoning NFP early.

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Did you talk about

Seanzie

here? If so, what were you thinking that about him?

Possibly unpopular opinion. Cyrus is town. Read only the first few pages though, still reading.

Mention those

1st few pages

posts where you saw town!him.

I'd also like to refer to this thread
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=85510
If the NRG deemed his setup to be weak with a real invest (Town Neap) I doubt the NRG approves a setup where roaming det gets to be our invest this game, assuming this is it

Consider: another weak incest like, IDK, a voyeur or something. Wouldn't that be balanced then?

You have decent knowledge about game mechanisms I see, then why it was tough for you to form opinions early? Even if I give you benifit of the doubt for being new, you couldn't form opinions on Day 3 also.

Is this the best you can do?

Yes. I'm sorry but I'm new. This is my best attept at solving.

Max do you have more thoughtsTM? Have you caught up?

I was AFK for a while. But basically I skimmed the thread. Early Cyrus vs nomnomnom is TvT I think.

Maybe because I wasn't interacting with the thread early it's hard for me to form opinions.

i would prefer the word scum to wolf. as i feel like im being flat out called a lier or a cheat or cut throat, back stabber. i may have over reacted but wolf to me , means a lot more then mafia.

"Mafia" is more suitable on MAFIAscum, I agree. However, the game was originally called Wolf (I think) and many other sites use the term Wolf instead of Mafia/Scum. (I personally dislike the name Wolf because -to me- it's a different alignment than Mafia, but that's just me.)

Actually it

was

Mafia originally and still is in some countries (it's a Russian game) but it is more popular in America as "Werewolf".

Did you ever play any forum mafia on other sites? Or any kind of mafia game on anywhere?

Meanwhile I'm reading your scum game, there you were confident from the 1st post but here you started with playing the newb player card.

I think I noticed, you didn't have any direct interaction with

cyrus62

at all while both of you were online.

so now that thats done as i said boxy isnt lieing. so check monkey to see why he wanted to lynch a pr.

why though

im the type of guy who plays fair. good job . town good job.

fatia isnt scum trust me.

This literally just sounds like throwing? Or the worst WIFOM ever. The worst wine nobody would even drink.

So honestly for now I'll assume anything he said is pointless to find his partners.
Or that's what he wants you to think.

Between your 743 to this post,

Bambi

made tons of posts but you only responded this:

Or that's what he wants you to think.

How I read this post is you suggested

Bambi

to take scum!

cyrus62

's posts seriously? Or you thought he mentioned his scum partners in those posts?

I want to let boxxy live but his recent posts kinda reek of scum.

Do you have any other reads?

Bambi is town. I can feel it. I can't quite explain why though.

Can you explain it now?

Edit: that's alot of sudden Max support from me reminding y'all she exists.

Alright, I am less busy now. Should talk more. Sorry for lurking.

Timing is questionable.

Is that it, MaxTheFox? That's too little. I would like you to act as if you're a replacement into your slot and catch-up, explain the reads you had blurted out, roleclaim, and tell us who is scum.

The explanation for my read on Bambi is that Bambi just seems helpful. Providing reads. Helping solve the game. And most importantly it doesn't seem forced.

Exactly what you did on your scum game. So you.should.know, if a player is helpful, doesn't necessarily mean they are town.

I am willing to get hanged the next day if A50 turns out to be town. But I doubt. I don't see a townie being so jumpy.

The explanation for my read on Bambi is that Bambi just seems helpful. Providing reads. Helping solve the game. And most importantly it doesn't seem forced.

What posts from Bambi does it give you the impression that they're helpful, providing reads, helping solve the game, etc.? And why is Bambi Jay more distinctly town vs Almost50 or anyone else in the playerlist?

It's just the feeling I get from her ISO? This... I don't feel scum would make this post. Call it my intuition.

What part? Not shooting me?

I would've shot my slot personally as scum. Killing a lurker slot gives nothin away. But I know for sure if Almost is scum he wouldn't kill me cuz it's more with me alive and vice versa. Use that info how you will.

So Kyouko's death wasn't to hide themselves very well. It had a purpose.

This is however immediately soiled with

Yeah a mass claim now kinda helps. First off though I guess I got an idea. If we all say the 3 people we want the most gone out of us 9, we can narrow down our pool significantly. Tally the votes and shit.

Like for me it would be
HEM
Salsa
Dwlee

The bottom two just feel fillersy. Probs could say the same about Max but of everyone she seems the most screwed from the short first days. Let's not go wild I guess this time and think things through.

Bruh why would you put HEM as your top scumread?

And I'm transparent that I meme around even claiming a shitty role when y'all know I'm a VT since I already admitted to wanting to bite the bullet earlier. I would've shot you anyway if I was a vig. I'm trigger happy.

Anyway I'm off to bed.

Now unlike with invest claims I can't really see scum back out of a vig claim. Too much risk.

However.

I am re-reading Bambi's ISO and my TR on her is just... eroding. I don't know why I originally TRed her. Many of her other posts are either filler or scum.
I really hate the tone of this in particular.

Why do you all keep going for me or my townreads? This is saddening.

Box doesn't trust me. Monkey sure as heck doesn't trust me. Salsa doesn't. Dwlee and Max are wall decorations.

T3 and Almost seem to be the guys who I can trust here. And unless I'm double pocketed by the scum team I'm sure I'm right here.

Consider Bambi another scumlean from me now.

Why didn't you unvote

Almost50

that time when you were taking a pause I suppose?

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

He didn't, he just jumped between several claims over the course of 3 days. I just don't see why town would make themself hard to read like that.

Which

Bambi

also did, then why she couldn't be your top scumread like

Almost50

?

EBWOP

nice

EBWOP

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oops. I guess you have to change it again

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee is town because there's no angle that he's the scum. This is reinforced by his tone and the lack of associative reads between Cyrus or Bambi. He also has a solid display of solving that lacks an agenda. Otherwise, show us.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Only person that would prematurely hammer here is Max which is a scum claim anyway.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will prematurely hammer her 90% if she reaches E-1. The 10% is the rational voice saying "Maybe you should wait for T3"

[humaneatingmonkey]

Salsabil, sometimes when two people love each other very much, they engage in irony and sarcasm.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thank you Kerset. You're now a co-author.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am re-reading Bambi's ISO and my TR on her is just... eroding. I don't know why I originally TRed her. Many of her other posts are either filler or scum.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

A50 is scum trying to get away with blatantly changing claims to fit the situation.

Can you expound on this? How did scum!A50 use his claims and fake guilties/clears to fit his situation? I'm trying to get a read on this slot so you can help me with this one.

He didn't, he just jumped between several claims over the course of 3 days. I just don't see why town would make themself hard to read like that.

So why did you say otherwise earlier?

1. Because last time I didn't read as deep into Bambi.
2. I... didn't? By fitting the situtation I meant that he seemed to jump to a VT claim as soon as we started considering POEing invest claims.

This is pretty important too.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

I kinda agree with this. We won't get anything out of T3 in ELo. MaxTheFox would be more useful.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Unless you want to townspew today, you're toast.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3... I honestly don't know why I'm townreading this slot. He has never voted for cyrus or Bambi Jay. He was behind both Seanzie (boldly declaring himself to be locktown for getting a 'townslip' but didnt really unvote — reminiscent of Sigmund from Mini 2214) and Almost50 (who he didn't express any scumread before, and gave a weak reason to hammer). I also think he meant to hammer Max in #1624 which would be very sus because he expressed a townread on him in #1510.

Care to speak about this, T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What's your read on Max? Are you just sheeping me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town by play but there's poe and scumslip.

Explain with more words and more post links

[humaneatingmonkey]

If MaxTheFox is town, who is scum T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

So you PoE'd Max before you even hammered Almost50? Why didn't you go for Max?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why didn't your share your reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town by play but there's poe and scumslip.

Explain with more words and more post links

What's the scumslip? I want you to towncase MaxTheFox if you think she's town by play

[humaneatingmonkey]

but i'm so glad bambi jay scumclaimed

I'd vote hem tomorrow just for this tbh

can you also explain this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE: I think that sent the message

[humaneatingmonkey]

G

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

If T3 wants to self-vote, let him self-vote

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[humaneatingmonkey]

Remember, we want a fast night.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

↑ Final answer

MaxTheFox bussed Bambi Jay at the last minute when the POE was {MaxTheFox, Bambi Jay/Almost50}, creating a game-losing situation for him. Meanwhile, T3 was posturing to elim me the next day. This could be wrong, but whatever. We have the next day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If I was Bambi Jay, the play would have been to hammer MaxTheFox to salvage whatever towncred he had at that situation. Bambi Jay hammering Almost50 put a target on her back and announced herself as scum, meaning she probably was confident of a win regardless of dying.

But whatever. This isn't a towntell. It's just a slight edge that leans the evidence towards T3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

UNVOTE:

Ugh

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, why is Bambi town over T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Where's your self-vote T3?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: T3

[humaneatingmonkey]

So what if I self vote then we vote max.

You wouldn't have made this post then

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Case her then

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee, maybe you can hammer

[humaneatingmonkey]

I dont know. Maybe.

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3 was in our way for ELo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Max would probably produce more content than T3.

Also, T3 recent series of posts were scummy

[humaneatingmonkey]

T3, were you town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ah I see

[humaneatingmonkey]

well played well played

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: MaxTheFox

...I don't imagine I'll change my mind.

[humaneatingmonkey]

70% sure on Max, 20% sure on Kerset, 10% sure on you

[humaneatingmonkey]

If Max is scum, I will say "GG". If Kerset is scum, I will exclaim a loud "goddamnit!". If you're scum, I will slow clap with standing ovation and tears on my face.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes, but also, scum can no kill or scum can have something up their sleeve where they can instawin Day 6. Not comfortable with that idea.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If we vote no elim, and tomorrow comes and I'm dead, will you vote out MaxTheFox? I'm here to make MaxTheFox happen

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee vs MaxTheFox, what's your take?

[humaneatingmonkey]

If I leave this game, I want to know that it will end well

[humaneatingmonkey]

Let's do the Quickhammer MaxTheFox And End This Game Challenge

[humaneatingmonkey]

vote Max

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: No Execution

[humaneatingmonkey]

No, hammer it

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm Filipino

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hammer no execution so I can die

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm p sure we're all townies here

[humaneatingmonkey]

hammer

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just make sure to not lose this game and vote Max out okay

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna be clear. Vote Max out. I already made the case against her. Already made a case for town!Kerset. Already made a case for town!you. Don't lose this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's lava hot, Max. i hope that's enough to take me to ELo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the puppet master

[humaneatingmonkey]

satan himself

[humaneatingmonkey]

So Max, why is Kerset or Dwlee town instead of me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

ah i see.

so this makes kerset and dwlee town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset is null at worse, I'm happy to lock Dwlee as town.

and why are you happy to lock dwlee as town

[humaneatingmonkey]

Mmmmmmhm

[humaneatingmonkey]

How much are you guys buying this? Do I really need to defend myself?

[humaneatingmonkey]

A couple of holes in the story:

1. I also led the cyrus
2. nomnom led the Seanzie wagon, and I agreed with him.
1. I didn't want an Almost50 elim. If I did, Bambi (my partner, in this story) would have been exposed because I created a {Bambi Jay/Almost50, MaxTheFox} lim pool.
2. Kerset led the T3 wagon, and I agreed with him.
3. I wasn't NKed because nomnom got shot protecting either me or boxxy > boxxy is an investigative with maximum potential at N3 > Salsabil was confirmed town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, locktowning you because I'm much more scummier than you? That's a fake read

[humaneatingmonkey]

I sincerely hope you guys see through this

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well the good thing about asking you to defend is I can check up my mental response to yours and see if our thoughts are similar, which which they are. Do you have history with Kyo?

no

[humaneatingmonkey]

my fucking god if we lose this because you guys can't see Max is scum and I'm town when it's so obvious, I'm gonna flip my shit

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sure, but even you can see that this is newbscum

[humaneatingmonkey]

No matter what my experience is, I'm not infallible. If I'm scum, I would have slipped. If I'm scum, I would have blundered. If I'm scum, the path to victory would have been obvious. If you think that I'm good scum with a lot of experience, don't you think I would have created a better path to victory than be in this situation where you doubt my alignment vs MaxTheFox?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Except I did push him

[humaneatingmonkey]

I agreed with skip as well. But also, Max can no-kill? We could no-elim now and Max can no-kill.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, let's go. Let's convince you I'm town, and let's convince you MaxTheFox is scum. AMA.

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay, that's good news. let's do no-elim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh look at that, i'm already voting no-elim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

why did bambi out of all players picked you to push even that you had the most townpoints atm

idk. you should ask her that. i personally think it's to frame me for boxxy's green flip and to take away town's trust. if she was scum with me, she would have maintained the status i had with town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

next

[humaneatingmonkey]

As scum, it was very easy to lim Almost50, still get away with townreading Bambi Jay the next day, and having a partner along with the ride. Almost50 is in the chopping block well before I declared that if Almost50 is town, Bambi Jay must be scum with MaxTheFox. It makes no sense as scum to out my partner right there. That's gamethrowing.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There was no reason to bus Bambi Jay. She's competent, she's townread by people. If you think I have enough miselims right now as scum, together we would have had ELo even earlier without being pushed in a situation like this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There is absolutely no reason my scumteam would approve of a strategy where I would stick my head out there and bus them both. That's not a good scum strategy. That's game throwing. I would be wisdomed in a lot of games.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm combined bodyguard hider (or whatever it is called)

Weren't you told?

Not a chance, and that's why this is the best slot to eliminate right now.

I would think a PR would know what his role card is, but okay. I want to hammer.

why didnt you wait for reply?

I was excited and I was confident Seanzie would flip red. I also agreed with nomnom that Seanzie was the right elim, regardless.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you think I have the experience and skill, then you would respect that I would have played this game differently with my partners as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hammering claimed TPR on D2 pre-emptively? Where's the good play in there? I could have still made that elimination as scum, and look way better than I did. I know how to manage my image.

[humaneatingmonkey]

why were you sure? You said that sena had no idea about their role butthe explanation of role mechanics was actually there,

You said so yourself. It seems like a fake claim. I absolutely believed it was a fake claim. "Town combined bodyguard hider or whatever it's called" is not something that inspired confidence.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It was so unnecessary to drag cyrus down the mud. That type of play will make my scum team hate me and not want to play with me in the future. Why would I do that?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Actually no she wasn't widely TRed at that point anymore. I remember it clearly.

Prove it

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think the case on HEM is bad.

Thank you! Geez.

It really sucks having to explain myself like this when it's too obvious.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well yea that was my impression but yours didn't have to be the same. You said that you will prove your town mindset, if i ask you questions so i do that

Please keep the questions coming until it's beyond a reasonable doubt that I'm town and Max is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, let's go. Let's convince you I'm town, and let's convince you MaxTheFox is scum. AMA.

I think the case on HEM is bad.

Thank you! Geez.

It really sucks having to explain myself like this when it's too obvious.

blame yourself for this idea

I don't like the idea that the only reason you townread me was nomnomnom saying I'm town when I'm a shining beacon of green light.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We really did. I can explain myself much better than T3 did.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so why max didn't kill box early? This is the most obvious move and the most exceptable from 2021 member

Boxxy and I talked about it and we've agreed that nom likely hid behind/guarded boxxy because he was his top scumread, and if nomnom was wrong, an investigative TPR. He wasn't meant to last until D3.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And why would I kill Kyuoku? The guy was willing to elim boxxy with me. If the play was have boxxy stay so I can elim him, I would have needed Kyuoku. And even so, I would have never made that play. Killing boxxy was the obvious move.

You know who has motive to kill Kyuoku? Someone who had played with him before, and could expose his scumgame. That's MaxTheFox.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Course he could also take a chance on a random but as certain as he way my bet is he tries to hide behind me. But we might be descending down a WIFOM rabbit hole analyzing this.

A massclaim here might be okay.

That's also possible ngl.

Also what made you change your mind on who you think nom targeted? Am I misremembering when I think you said that you thought nom targeted a50?

you said that he would not hide behind a slot that's likely to be an NK, and if town!Almost50 was likely to be an NK because of his claimed role, then he wouldn't have hid behind them. i think that makes sense.

boxxy raised the point that nom could have also hid behind his scumreads. his scumread on A50 was similar to mine — associative. he was thinking boxxy was scum first, so it could also be likely that nom hid there.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Kerset, see above

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kerset, are we good? Any more?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thanks. I'll be here if you need more.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I made this post at 1571

A50 answering on behalf of Bambi Jay instead of letting Bambi Jay illustrate it himself makes me think that this interaction would have never happened if they have a PT — otherwise he could have just coached there. If there's scum in A50 and Bambi Jay, it's only one or the other.

{Bambi Jay/A50, Max The Fox}

Before these posts, these were everyone's vote:

T3 was voting against Kerset. Bambi Jay was never mentioned.
Almost50 townreads Bambi Jay
MaxTheFox townreads Bambi Jay
boxxy townleans Bambi Jay
Kerset wants to elim A50 and was questioning Salsabil's Bambi scumread.
Dwlee99 wants to elim A50 first before Bambi. I was the one who convinced him that Bambi is scum.
Salsabil Faria was the earliest with Bambi when she caught her TMI-ing. But I was earlier than her in making that read.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I have played a lot of games with T3 and I have seen people dissect his scum game enough for me to watch out for it.

I think T3 is town. I think Salsa is town. I think you're right about A50's mindset not making sense as a psychologist.

What do you think about Bambi Jay's take on A50 lying about his role to save boxxy? I think it's a load of bullshit because A50 doesn't have the town motivation to believe boxxy's claim if he has a sense that the slot of scum (as demonstrated by him, before boxxy claimed). But since he claims his role is tied to his own role (which Bambi Jay believes is fake and A50 is alluding is fake), he says he believes it. So it's a load of tangled bullshit imo.

I think we should force participation out of MaxTheFox. VOTE: MaxTheFox He blurts out an unexplained Cyrus townread, and literally all his reads are unexplained. He just isn't towning it up. He suggested looking in Cyrus wagon for bussers but didn't actually try himself.

I would think that MaxTheFox is the better choice here. Although it might be that we just haven't seen enough of him to really read into the slot, I think his D1 stances are off, I think his reads are shallow, and I think the emotions of his recent posts are off.

It might be a bit vague but what is it your meta to be submissive? You let me execute both T3 and A50 even that you suspect were elsewhere. Why did you force your idea like with box

Spoiler:

let's do boxxy guys. it's a good wagon

Boxxy's wagon in the near future.

Boxxy's posts aren't good. TL;DR Boxxy is positioning himself to be the town's lord and savior from these anti-town scrubs and he's gonna scumhunt the scum to infinity and beyond. I read this as scum who's trying to score towncred. This is not how town actually score towncred. Town score towncred by making an effort in actually sorting slots. But in fact, he's done the opposite — he's reading into things very superficially and focuses much more on keeping the 'tegridy of much tuhwn.

BOXXY WAGON HYPE

My meta isn't to be submissive. Obviously, my meta is to be aggressive and dominant. I lead boxxy's wagon to take the game into a gamestate where I can pressure someone for reads.

Nom was my strongest townread, and I disagreed that Seanzie was town until he asked me to do a towncase on Seanzie and case both Salsabil and Seanzie. It was then that I concluded that Seanzie is a better lynch than Salsabil because I thought Salsabil was town. Then I hammered Seanzie because I really agreed with nom and he was my townblock. You can see that in my ISO.

I agree that T3 and MaxTheFox both have equal scum equity and I thought I would be more able to sort MaxTheFox in ELo than I would over T3. Obviously, I was right, because MaxTheFox is bleeding scum right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I disagreed that Seanzie was town

*Disagreed that Seanzie was scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

You let me execute both T3 and A50 even that you suspect were elsewhere.

I did not let anyone eliminate A50. If you can recall. I was very vocal that everyone should unvote A50 because I wanted to create a case for my three suspects. Bambi Jay "hammered".

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think I remember people saying seanzie and/or salsa was evil for it

That's it. It was Almost50 that suggested MaxTheFox did it, but we ignored him because he was sus as fuck.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You good, Kerset?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still think I could be scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: MaxTheFox

[humaneatingmonkey]

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's a well-deserved win

[humaneatingmonkey]

Dwlee, can you differentiate your scum game and your town game for me?

I don't have a completed scum game on site since I think 2017ish so not really. I can send you links to old games though if you want to read through me being 14 or 15 though lol

I don't have a completed scum game on site since I think 2017ish so not really. I can send you links to old games though if you want to read through me being 14 or 15 though lol

Ah. You haven't rolled scum. Very dangerous.

...Can I trust you to be not scum this time? I have a strong townread on you based on play, but since I have no idea what kind of scum player you would be, it makes me nervous.

It would be pretty embarrassing if you were just playing the best scum game ever.

[humaneatingmonkey]

From now on, every time I reach ELo, I will elim my townreads.

[humaneatingmonkey]

monkey how could you

Dwlee is town because there's no angle that he's the scum. This is reinforced by his tone and the lack of associative reads between Cyrus or Bambi. He also has a solid display of solving that lacks an agenda. Otherwise, show us.

You missed your cue, Kerset.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly, I'm not that upset about the loss.

I think I played my slot well. Sucks that I wasn't able to bounce off someone who could have slowed me down. That could have been Kerset, but I was too busy proving myself against Kerset. That conversation could have also extended into proving Dwlee was town.

My critical flaw was not using the time allotted to doubt myself and underestimating Dwlee's scum game. I wanted everything fast hence the quickhammers. When I used the time I had, I was closer to actually hitting scum — and that's taken away from me. Next time, short of a guilty, I'll prioritize limming slots that I don't think have a chance revealing themselves as town despite being town. That T3 and MaxTheFox slot could have been eliminated from PoE much much earlier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I noticed you skipped the newbie queue. You shouldn't skip the newbie queue — there's much to learn there. I have no feedback for your play other than I think you should play more games and have a better sense of how the game works. Pick a successful player that you want to learn from and then copy their style, their process, and their everything. As town, sometimes the most crucial skill is to have the ability to make your alignment obvious and be as readable as you can.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Alright. I just don't like semi-open setups I guess. I feel I know enough to go for another normal.

Newbie games are fun! There's a reason old-timers still sign-up for newbies and there's never a lack of SEs at any moment The only way to really find out if you are good amongst the fresh meats is see how you really fare against them. Plus, eventually all newbies who don't like the format would replace out anyway and most often than not, SEs replace the slots.

[humaneatingmonkey]

The mild annoynce I felt realizing in the dead pt Dwlee was scum.

Dwlee conned us into conftowning him, because he's such an innocent sweet and special boy.