Mini 2228: Isekai uPick - Endgame

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: no elim

[Lukewarm]

LLD, do you scum read me, or is that a PoE vote?

[Lukewarm]

I'm unwilling to risk NL. Seems silly.

Seeing as how this is what I am leaning towards, can you explain why that is a bad choice?

I don't see us getting another kill off - from you or from kate- so if we kill now we are on evens. And will be in a position to need to no kill at melo.

No killing now seems better then no killing then, unless I am missing something

[Lukewarm]

I don't really think that dunn and I would both immediately doubt the other persons claim if we were scum partners.

Me on Dunn (not gonna lie, when I started typing this post, I thought I pressed him more then I did on the extra elim / dgb thing. I guess I thought it more then I typed it)

Spoiler:

Oh, and this may be due to me inheriting a part of dgb's role unless somebody else wants to claim it. I am not certain on that.

You were able to submit an action from DGB's ability?

Oh, and this may be due to me inheriting a part of dgb's role unless somebody else wants to claim it. I am not certain on that.

You were able to submit an action from DGB's ability?

Dunn, I would like clarification on this, and what lead you to think you could be responsible for the double vote

Mainly just Dunn no longer being in a "no-touch" zone.

There has just been a lot of confusion about his role, in ways that makes me feel like he could be making it up. Even before kyouko claimed tracker on him, he claimed that he inherited a part of DGB's role, but since it is dreaming god he did not know what it did, so he could be the second vote. Which does not jive with the timeline of when he would have received dgb's power. That was "oh, I misunderstood that it was an active power"

Spoiler:

Hi, I am a chobi the chocobo.

I have a somewhat dumb role, that is FF flavored, and triggers on my death. (the three things my original soft were supposed to include)

When I die, core game mechanics break for some reason.

The game stops being a majority vote, and turns into a plurality vote system. Also, the length of the day phases changes from 2 weeks, to an unknown deadline that is randomly chosen, but is guaranteed to be more then 1 week long. Because the deadline is unknown, there is no longer a countdown timer given by the mod.

I'm not sure about this claim

I was not sure about the role when I got my role pm, but that's it

It is a wild one to be fair

For other reasons which will become apparent

Wheme's claim now too, in fact

~~~~
And for wheme, I don't see scum!Dunn voting for wheme in the blind vote.

[Lukewarm]

4512 was supposed to have this quote at the top

Our focus has been mostly on potential Dunn associatives with wheme and Luke.

[Lukewarm]

However, I will direct him in the right direction- I am looking solely at RVS in past scumgames. (and if you look at the bastard one, VFP was his first buddy). Or you can not do this and I'll spell it out but I'd much rather you look >_>

Luke's past scum game:

Newbie: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12822422
Pooky's dead silence: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=87316
Popcorn: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87343

Bastard game that I don't really count as a game (I was not scum the entire game, but did start as scum). Only including the link because Kate specifically mentioned it:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=86860

[Lukewarm]

I still think that no elim is the best option here... But if no one else is on board for that, I guess I can go somewhere else.

I am at No Elim > Cabd/LLD > Kate >>>>>>>>Gamma > Me > kyouko / wheme

I really do think that Gamma is scum, but I also think that he is protected today.

I think that kyouko and wheme are town. Kyouko for the tracker stuff, wheme has grew on me last day phase, plus he does not look like a partner to Dunn, and he cannot be partnered with Gamma because of Cabd's claim. I put them below me in priority because they actually have roles to help the town. I don't.

I am also entertaining the idea that it is Gamma + GiF. And Gif is gone, and gamma is protected, so doing any kill is actually bad, and that is why the scum team have this ability. Which is part of the reason I am on the no elim train atm

[Lukewarm]

I am at No Elim > Cabd/LLD > Kate >>>>>>>>Gamma > Me > kyouko / wheme

I'd like for you to unpack that order past No Elim.[/quote]

I already explained why gamma, me, kyouko, and wheme are where we are.

That leaves cabd, lld, and you. (and again, gif is not an option today)

I am more inclined to believe you are town then cabd and lld. So, you are in your own slot. Congrats.

[Lukewarm]

damn. screwed the quote

[Lukewarm]

I am at No Elim > Cabd/LLD > Kate >>>>>>>>Gamma > Me > kyouko / wheme

I'd like for you to unpack that order past No Elim.

I already explained why gamma, me, kyouko, and wheme are where we are.

That leaves cabd, lld, and you. (and again, gif is not an option today)

I am more inclined to believe you are town then cabd and lld. So, you are in your own slot. Congrats.

[Lukewarm]

the rest is a blur of "I can see it if I squint really hard, but no one seems to fit quite right"

I am still about here. I have put zero energy into this new-part-of-the-day phase, and really thought we would just no elim and move on.

Instead, LLD appears to want to lead a push on me, and no one is leading any wagons anywhere else, so that is fun.

[Lukewarm]

Why is LLD where she is?

Why should she be any where else? She is in my PoE for the last slot of Dunn+Gamma+????

And atm, that slot is just that. PoE. Like, it has to be one of [lld, cabd, Gif, or you]

Like, little things I have thought about her slot:

I think that she is one of the people in this game that could have fed marci the line that made cabd think that she was the katniss he was looking for.

Now that she came back from her VLA, and her first thought was to kill the person who could confirm or deny her role, which I did not like.

Second thought was to kill me, which I also did not like.

And her approach to that felt weird. Really.... dethatched I guess? idk, seemed weird.

I also did not like that you asked her about looking at associatives, and she admitted that she didn't but that she should, and then nothing ever came of that, and she just came back how ever long later trying to rally the votes.

----

I was very ready to kill Gamma after the last day phase, but we are in a weird scum arranged phase, so my choices are no elim, or shoot in the poe, and very few people seem to be on board for the no elim option.

[Lukewarm]

It's a complete waste, we don't gain an extra kill from it, and guessing wrong doesn't do worse than guessing right, numbers wise.

In a numbers sense, no vote is actively terrible, with a downside of awful.

Can you walk me through the numbers that make you feel this way.

Alive in this game : you, me, gamma, kyouko, cabd, wheme, kate, (gif)

[8] now

We kill,

scum kill
[6]

We kill

, scum kill
[4]
We no kill, scum kills -
3 man ELO

VS

[8] now
We no kill, scum kills
[7]

We kill

, scum kill
[5]

We kill

, scum kill
3 man ELO

Both paths give us 2 elims before 3 man elo.

But no killing now, means that we will be killing with more information. Namely: investigative results and tonights flip.

[Lukewarm]

If you guys no Elim, you can handle the rest of the game with me on auto pilot.

It's a complete waste, we don't gain an extra kill from it, and guessing wrong doesn't do worse than guessing right, numbers wise.

In a numbers sense, no vote is actively terrible, with a downside of awful.

Are you at all concerned about what Luke's role could do to the next day phase?

No. Not remotely.

Me neither, btw.

In practice I think I basically make the game go from a 2 week deadline to a 1 week deadline, because you will want to hammer before the hidden deadline, and it is guaranteed to be at least 1 week

[Lukewarm]

Hey cabd, does knowing that my full role is confirmed by wheme (not just the name) change anything for you?

I can't be the inventor in your theory do you still think I fit in your solve of Dunn+gamma+[luke or gif]?

[Lukewarm]

I called out both Luke and Dunnstral on my Wise Man’s Snare tell

What even is this?

[Lukewarm]

Specifically, define a wise man's snare for me Gamma

[Lukewarm]

Fine

VOTE: gamma

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cabd

Cool I'm Regan Bush get me the fuck out today then kill luke tomorrow probably and it's over. Not my proudest win but I'll take it. Get me out of the way.

So your bet-the-game-solve is that I am the final scum?

pedit : and apparently LLD does too... and one of you is town, so thats a bit sad

[Lukewarm]

I am not a Servant Alter Ego level of busser, so I am not sure why so many people are landing on me. Like, how I handled gamma when dunn was going down should be pretty "Luke is not partnered with the people" imo

I think it is one of Cabd/LLD

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Gamma. What are your thoughts about the fact that with me and Dunn voting you, scum could have quick hammered you if we were both town (from your pov)

You have been town reading me, and you decided that kyouko was the scum out of the kyouko/Dunn tracker stuff.

What does this current situation do for your reads?

Are you sending guessing me? Or Dunn? What would that mean for kyouko?

Or do you think there is a reason scum would not quick hammer you?

Like. New things have happened. Your town reads put you in hammer range. And I am not seeing revaluations from you because of that.

Id rather eliminate the real threats first

Gamma. This line makes it incredibly hard for me to believe that you are town.

You have claimed town beloved princess, and looking at the numbers, if that is true, the from your pov voting you out means we lose the game. On the spot.

But you are not playing like you are the only lose condition today.

Like, from you pov it should be that ANY elim (even on town!) is infinitly better then an elim on you, because you are the only elim that loses this day phase.

But here, the two people on the chopping block are you and Dunn. And you think Dunn could be scum. But, nah, you're not gonna accept that. You're not gonna join that wagoj because it is not good enough (??). Instead you look like you are just kinda admitting defeat and rolling over to die?

It just does not feel right.

I’ll do dunn if I must but that feels like a capitulation

I want to kill gamma

VOTE: dunnstral
I guess I’m not in position to bargain, so I’ll take the first step here.

VOTE: Dunn

I can wait to kill gamma tomorrow

Like. This whole exchange. Would be scum!Luke, bullying scumGamma in main thread into voting scumDunn, and doing it in a way that makes Gamma look like shit and clearly partnered with Dunn, while also locking myself into killing Gamma the next game day.

Instead of... just telling gamma in a pt that not voting for Dunn here looks bad for the above reasons...

I would never hard double bus day 2 like this x.x

[Lukewarm]

You are the deadline guide.

When I die, core game mechanics break for some reason.

The game stops being a majority vote, and turns into a plurality vote system. Also, the length of the day phases changes from 2 weeks, to an unknown deadline that is randomly chosen, but is guaranteed to be more then 1 week long. Because the deadline is unknown, there is no longer a countdown timer given by the mod.

So this is the info he got

@LLD. Here is my claim, and it was confirmed (name and description) by Wheme

[Lukewarm]

You alone wouldn't have maybe.
What if scumGamma asked you to?

I most likely would have told him no.

But even if we got past that point, then on the Governor vote I would have protected Gamma every time. I was pretty comfortable walking into that vote.

[Lukewarm]

WHO chose your name? Just you? If so there are two scum why wouldn't they just choose me and a backup option of you if it's Luke. After all. The limpool is effectively us three.

Why is LLD consitantly outside of your lim pool?

Because, I am looking more at her then Gif.

If it was Gamma+Gif, why was Gamma not protected? There would have been no danger of his partner being voted off.

[Lukewarm]

You know, kyouko's tracker result would be nice to help us sort through the remaining possibilities.

[Lukewarm]

Where did scumGamma got his idea of fakeclaiming a role that causes detrimental effect to town?

That was a part of his true role. If he was vote out, then the governor ability activated. He did not need any help there lol

[Lukewarm]

GiF is conftown to us because if he were scum, why would the scum team not have blocked a Gamma elim? GiF wasn't elimmable.

Yeah. That is what took him off the table for me too

[Lukewarm]

I really feel like anyone who is looking at me, just never even looked at how I interacted with the Marci / Gamma slot all game.

Marci and I are friends. And after tarot, if we were partners together, my number one goal would have been to help her get through hopefully multiple day phases, because Tarot was not great for her.

Instead, I was consistently beating the drum that Marci was scummy, over and over, and was pushing back against the Cabd clear on her.

And then when Gamma swapped in, I said that his entry into the thread was also scummy. And that I found both people who had occupied that slot scummy.

And then I really really drove it in that Gamma was obviously scum partners with Dunn with that quick hammer analysis, and pushing him on why he was not on the Dunn wagon.

Like, you would have to assume that my game plan from the very top of day 1 was to pile drive the Marci slot into the ground... and just... No.

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler:

Also, I am worried about Marci. I think she might be scum

Can we like, ACTUALLY talk about that marcistar read though, Luke?

I got the exact opposite impression from her replies to unwnd, they sort of reminded me of my first large theme.

What data do you have that makes you feel otherwise?

Her lack of a presence early on. Especially 253 , which felt like something she said in Tarot ? (this may be wrong, I have not gotten a chance to look back, but it felt that way)

And then when Unwnd did get content from her, we got 279

Which, I omgus'ed her for. Specifically

i was a bit concerned about 16, since im not sure if i like how luke reached out to me specifically.

Which from my pov, felt wrong. I have played more games with Marci then anyone else on site (except T3 lol), and I generally start out talking directly with her in every game that we play in (as both alignments). And if felt extra weird, because I specifically talked her into playing this game with us, and she clearly immediately got the joke I was making, and played along in post 19

So it kind of felt like she got put on the spot by unwnd, and just needed something to say, and drew that out of a hat to be suspicious of vs a concern that she actually had.

Just, me casually scum casing my partner Marci, and telling Cabd that he was wrong to town read her.

[Lukewarm]

I don't know half of these characters so y'all decide.

Gabiru, Megumin, Kanna, Wanibe, Otto, Cerceus, Mizarisa, Chiho, Aira, Melty, Geordo, Pisto Shaz XI, Krusty, Millhiore, Knukcles, Aku, Oda Nobuna, Keita, Tiffania, Kumausa, Nokopara, Tomoe, Dimiurge, Poncho

Pist Shaz XI was in the anime my flavor is from. And Knuckles is from Kate's.

So I am guessing that this list was compiled from the anime's we all chose?

[Lukewarm]

Gabiru, Megumin, Kanna, Wanibe, Otto, Cerceus, Mizarisa, Chiho, Aira, Melty, Geordo, Pisto Shaz XI, Krusty, Millhiore, Knukcles, Aku, Oda Nobuna, Keita, Tiffania, Kumausa, Nokopara, Tomoe, Dimiurge, Poncho

I believe all of these are from Isekai anime?

Slime
Konasuba
Bookworm
Goblin Slayer
Sonic X
Overlord
Realist Hero

just the ones I recognize on a skim.

Or not. Here I was cross referencing that list with a character list from FF:U, and you already had the answer

[Lukewarm]

It's literally impossible for all of these to be from our flavors.

Given the list you just gave, I think you are right.

I did not recognize a single name on the list except knuckles, so I didn't know

[Lukewarm]

I think these were just picked from mod's favorite animes.

The mod explicitly said that my anime was bad, so thats not it lmao

[Lukewarm]

I think that it is just cabd, with the long shot on LLD.

Kyouko's guilty on Dunn never comes from scum kyouko
Kate's push on Gamma mid governor vote never comes from scum kate. She could have either let the me wagon go through, or pushed for no elim. But instead, she killed Gamma.
Gamma is always protected by the governor if GIF is scum (and maybe the kill would not happen, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

So, those three are off the table imo.

That just leaves Cabd/LLD. I would kill Cabd every time here if it was not for these isekai / dead pt games. I think he is still my top choice, even with that. I think it just ends the game. But if people are scared of it, I can go LLD.

Killing LLD, if she is town, would forces the scum's hand. They have to kill kyouko, because she becomes an alignment cop with LLD off the board. So that puts us in [me+kate+cabd+gif] melo, which from my pov is better then the other options. (sorry kyouko, but I would chose Kate to go to Melo over you)

So, if we are killing Cabd, great. If not, then I can do LLD.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: cabd

[Lukewarm]

I guess that not seeing any reason to not townread him also helps too.
I don't think scum-Cabd would claim that he is better off being in another world.
I think it makes more sense to be informed town than informed mafia who just knows flavor.
Now that we know that another world is a dead PT, Cabd's role translates to "Hoi I give my alignment advantage when I'm dead!"
Usually these kind of roles are town. Why would he be able to contact Wheme (who flipped town) to get challenge tips as scum?
I don't know how restrictive those claimed communications can be, but it should be really easy to prove that he can talk to Wheme.

Cabd did not claim that he is better of being in another world... that was part of wheme's claim.

Also, neither one claimed that they could communicate with the other.

[Lukewarm]

There are two town players being really lazy in [lld, cabd, gif].

Looking at my interactions with Marci, and Marci's interactions with me (she basically pushed me all of day 1 up until her rep out, and I vocally scum read her all the way to her rep out)

And then looking at my interactions with Gamma - calling his rep in scummy, trapping him into voting dunn making him look like shit, hammering him in the governor phase.

I actually think that I am pretty clearly not aligned with that slot.

I think that Gif's is probably the most egregious, because he is at "bet the game that it is Luke" given his self vote plan (same would apply to cabd if he turns out to be town)

Like, I really think that those players have not even looked at me, and it is kinda sad.

[Lukewarm]

I am pretty sure that it is just cabd.

I was actually thinking about my own earlier post, where I said that after Tarot, I would have been pretty focused on floating Marci past day 1. And, then we have the cabd/marci "clear" that did just that. And futhermore, when I started scum reading Marci, Cabd came to her defense -- not because of this role, but because he said she seemed townie in her exchange with unwnd.

Can we like, ACTUALLY talk about that marcistar read though, Luke?

I got the exact opposite impression from her replies to unwnd, they sort of reminded me of my first large theme.

What data do you have that makes you feel otherwise?

This is actually before he asks her if she is fluffy. that happened in 666

Spoiler:

Also, I am not sure why cabd would have called shiro/sora fluffy anyways? Marci chose a cat girl flavor, so I see it, but when I googled shiro/sora they were not cat people. But that could be a lack of flavor on my part, idk

[Lukewarm]

I have thought you were scum since yesterday and even called you a possible Gamma partner since that long too. I don't know why you think I'm being lazy or not doing my due dillegence.

Mostly because Kate asked you if you looked at Dunn's iso for associatives, you said no, and then there has been no evidence that you did it since then. Or at least you have not talked about anything from doing that. I also don't feel like you could look at Marci's and come up with us looking like partners.

And even yesterday, you said that I was a poe into it. So it sure does feel like you have not looked at me at all, and are just ready to kill me anyways.

[Lukewarm]

Also, I am not sure why cabd would have called shiro/sora fluffy anyways? Marci chose a cat girl flavor, so I see it, but when I googled shiro/sora they were not cat people. But that could be a lack of flavor on my part, idk

The "Cute flat lass" before that is definitely hinting ag Shiro though. Is there a reason why you skipped this bit?

Because the word fluffy was the bit that confused me

[Lukewarm]

Just to help people who don't want to do the dives themselves. Here is me, constantly scum reading Marci, and pushing back against anyone who gives her a town read.

Spoiler:

I would like to state OMGUS @ marci

Also, I am worried about Marci. I think she might be scum

Can we like, ACTUALLY talk about that marcistar read though, Luke?

I got the exact opposite impression from her replies to unwnd, they sort of reminded me of my first large theme.

What data do you have that makes you feel otherwise?

Her lack of a presence early on. Especially 253 , which felt like something she said in Tarot ? (this may be wrong, I have not gotten a chance to look back, but it felt that way)

And then when Unwnd did get content from her, we got 279

Which, I omgus'ed her for. Specifically

i was a bit concerned about 16, since im not sure if i like how luke reached out to me specifically.

Which from my pov, felt wrong. I have played more games with Marci then anyone else on site (except T3 lol), and I generally start out talking directly with her in every game that we play in (as both alignments). And if felt extra weird, because I specifically talked her into playing this game with us, and she clearly immediately got the joke I was making, and played along in post 19

So it kind of felt like she got put on the spot by unwnd, and just needed something to say, and drew that out of a hat to be suspicious of vs a concern that she actually had.

I am curious where the really strong town reads on Marci are coming from.

@Cabd / Kate have read through Marci's more recent scum game, or are you comparing her specifically to tarot?

Marci and I actually haven't been the same alignment in a while. Our last game together, I was scum, and then both of the games before that she was.

That most recent post from you give me scummy vibes, but cabd kinda told me to drop it, so I am talking to you like you are town today.

Ngl, I kinda want to vote Marci :/

If she is off the table, I guess wheme is fine

VOTE: wheme

Ngl, I kinda want to vote Marci :/

If she is off the table, I guess wheme is fine

VOTE: wheme

How is your null-sorting going?

You guys are shifting town. Marci and wheme shifting scum.

And like, I have new things I don't like from Marci, but it feels like I have been told not to push it, and that feels pretty bad :/

ehys everyone been salty lately..?

Like, this is marci's only post on Saturday. And it came right after someone called her out by name in 1765

And "Where is marci" into "I'm here!" into actually nothing looks pretty bad imo.

And then Sunday, we still did not get anything. Just a promise for more

maybe i can try a bit later but today isnt a good time, we're celebrating my younger brothers birthday : D

And that was more then 24 hours ago, but apparently that later has not happened yet

but apparently marci is off limits because of a secret code you and cabd spit back and forth, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And scrolling through her iso, it is actually 7 straight posts of only quote responses to me, and then nothing at all. And it both seems weird that I am the only person she has interacted with in the last like 3 days. And its weird that she has disappeared. And its weird that she popped back up almost immediately after she was name dropped. And it is weird that even that did not lead to content.

from what shes posted so far i'd gather youre the only one shes super comfortable engaging with, and i'd bet a lot of it boils down to nerves. I just wish she felt more comfortable so we could all have stronger reads

This, does not exactly make me think marci is more likely to be town. I have played with scum!marci 2 times (No, I am not counting tarot. We did not play together that game lol). And both times I town read her

So, I could see scum!marci being more comfortable talking to me then other players.

And, like, I understand why marci would be scared of like Cabd or Notty after their last game together, and ffery for a different reason, but Marci has played with Dunn and kyouko and dgb all before. Plus neither you or wheme are particularly intimidating.

So I feel like Marci has people she could reach out to, but she just kind of isnt :/

I am going to drop this convo about marci here tho. She gets to live today. I just hope that if she is town, that she towns it up sometime soon

Oh, and then Gamma reps in, I disagree with Kate on her town reading his entrance.

Spoiler:

It's a strange plot twist that Katniss shores up my faltering Cabd read.

If you say so. I have reservations about both katnisses. And I'm just setting it aside for the day :/

If I am understanding, you were saying that Gamma has improved your read on the Marci slot.

What coming from gamma is having you town read him?

Not sure if you understood me. When I said reservations about both katnisses, I meant Marci and also gammas catch up

And then the very first thing I do day 2, is to pester Cabd into revealing clear he had on Marci/gamma, because I really really wanted to kill that slot. (Day 1, I thought that it was that Marci and Cabd were heighbors, and that he was town reading her in there. And I needed him to tell me what she possibly could have said to make him so sure she is town. I was wrong, but that is where I thought I was going)

Spoiler:

I would like the Katniss thing to be fully explained.

I understood it as Cabd had more information then we did about Marci/Gamma.

Are we talking a mason claim? Informed of their alignment? Neighbors, and he saw something in their hood?

I am still not seeing where Marci said she was Shiro :/

Where?

Quote Marci. ELI5 how it tells you she is Shiro

@Gamma, confirm flavor, or nah?

If gamma/marcislot ~is~ scum, it's with somebody fluent in crumbs. I'm still not sure that the reply to me is all that awkward as Luke makes it out to be though, as opposed to just flavor-dressing... but we won't know until we get a flavor and role claim from Gamma.

When I said that before, I kind of meant that I would not expect Marci to crumb her flavor At All, unless prompted. I could see her crumbing her role, but I would not expect a flavor crumb from her, especially in a upick of flavors that she has never seen before (and would therefore make it harder to crumb it in the first place). So, that sentence from about the sky her looked weird in a "this is not standard marci speak, so does look like a crumb"

And then, I settle into "I want to kill gamma/dunn and have wheme rolecop the other"

Spoiler:

Mainly just Dunn no longer being in a "no-touch" zone.

There has just been a lot of confusion about his role, in ways that makes me feel like he could be making it up. Even before kyouko claimed tracker on him, he claimed that he inherited a part of DGB's role, but since it is dreaming god he did not know what it did, so he could be the second vote. Which does not jive with the timeline of when he would have received dgb's power. That was "oh, I misunderstood that it was an active power"

And then with the tracker, it feels off with SS

I collect a watered-down/limited version of their role

My role says I get a weaker version of their role

But then going from "undead magnet" to "undead conduit" does not feel weaker or watered down at all. If anything, seems stronger. So then he lost the doc, but got a stronger version of the second ability, and that feels wrong too. And even if he IS a conduit for SS to target DGB, what did SS target DGB with, if not a doc?

Also, I don't think that his claim meshes with mine.

Oh, and I kinda liked Wheme's posts in the catch up. Urge to kill him has settled down

I think I want to vote Dunn. The track guilty, and the shifting claim, and it not meshing with my role feels like the strongest things to go off of atm. Everything else just feels so uncertain :/

I would like LLD to full claim first though.

Ugh. Gamma was the other person I was considering :/

I was thinking kill Dunn, have wheme role cop gamma. But I could be open to doing the opposite

VOTE: Dunn

You Ninja'd me

UNVOTE:

We might should talk night actions first

I think it's rolecop gamma ?

Does anyone have a better idea?

VOTE: Gamma

I have a headache, so I am not gonna dig up posts. But I scum read Marci day 1, I scum read Gamma's catch up day 1. The only reason I did not push that slot to be the elim was because of Cabd's big "no touchie" sign that ended up being bunk anyways.

They keep accusing Kate of having an agenda, but scrolling through their iso, they have an agenda. Like, I invite people to open their iso and "ctrl+f" Kate and look at their posts for the day. They really do respond to everything Kate says by attacking it. It is especially clunky surrounding Cabd. First attacking Kate for scum reading cabd, then saying that they were scum reading kate and cabd both for a while.

I also really liked that quote from Marci that Wheme grabbed. I don't feel like it makes sense, because marci was looking for the "right way to use" her ability, and then gamma claimed a purely negative utility role. And gamma's response was that Marci must have misunderstood her role....

Gamma. What are your thoughts about the fact that with me and Dunn voting you, scum could have quick hammered you if we were both town (from your pov)

You have been town reading me, and you decided that kyouko was the scum out of the kyouko/Dunn tracker stuff.

What does this current situation do for your reads?

Are you sending guessing me? Or Dunn? What would that mean for kyouko?

Or do you think there is a reason scum would not quick hammer you?

Like. New things have happened. Your town reads put you in hammer range. And I am not seeing revaluations from you because of that.

Id rather eliminate the real threats first

Gamma. This line makes it incredibly hard for me to believe that you are town.

You have claimed town beloved princess, and looking at the numbers, if that is true, the from your pov voting you out means we lose the game. On the spot.

But you are not playing like you are the only lose condition today.

Like, from you pov it should be that ANY elim (even on town!) is infinitly better then an elim on you, because you are the only elim that loses this day phase.

But here, the two people on the chopping block are you and Dunn. And you think Dunn could be scum. But, nah, you're not gonna accept that. You're not gonna join that wagoj because it is not good enough (??). Instead you look like you are just kinda admitting defeat and rolling over to die?

It just does not feel right.

I want to kill gamma

VOTE: Dunn

I can wait to kill gamma tomorrow

-----

Like, it I was scum, then that means that I can into Day 1 ready to destroy Marci's slot (which, is definitely not something I would ever plan to do to Marci).

Then, decided to double bus Day 2. And then, after making Gamma look terrible, I then didn't target him with the govenor ability.

[Lukewarm]

Also, this would be a weird partner exchange imo, but definitely a minor point.

Spoiler:

I am not caught up, but I am wondering if lld ever claimed the rest of her ability?

LLD stated D1 her only functionality was to be an extra option for who to send to do the factional kill

LLD stated D1 her only functionality was to be an extra option for who to send to do the factional kill

She definitely crumbed that she had more then that

I think I want to vote Dunn. The track guilty, and the shifting claim, and it not meshing with my role feels like the strongest things to go off of atm. Everything else just feels so uncertain :/

I would like LLD to full claim first though.

I want to know the rest of your role, since we have done a mass claim

Hey,

Rhiannon playing this game. How fortunate for you, not so fortunate for us, I suppose.

Our role is a trashheap pure negative utility role. I begin the game brainwashed. At night, the scum may use me to perform their night kills.

Oh, and I have the town win condition but thankfully I've been told that I don't count towards the Mafia despite being brainwashed, so that's good at least.

This is a full claim besides my character name which I will happily provide if asked.

Seems people really forgot about this, eh

Okay. Then I will rephrase. LLD, what makes your role a DPS role and not a support role?

So Gamma will stop thinking that I am asking for no reason, because he can apparently look at her iso to see her out and out claim, but doesn't look at the blatant softs

Spoiler:

Oh my, I think I may like where this is going.

If you build enough Taboo in the story, you can do something powerful.

Like I don't know. Kill someone.

Are you following, Cabd?

Exile effects and kills are both removal, though.

I think our deck might have a little too much removal. Not enough curvel

Cabd are you understanding me?

More than half!

At the very least, the non-MTG stuff... I uh... actually don't play MTG

We have too much DPS in the party.

Ah yeah, not everyone queues up to ranked to play nami and morgana all day.

It takes a real angel at heart to do that.

I think we have a few of those running around, but it's bonkers that we could be in XYLIM on day two with claims as stated, yes.

Cabd.

I'm Pyke, not Sona.

I'm Darius, not Nami.

And for the record Gamma, these are the other roles that were considered DPS roles, not Supports (when in League speak) or Removal, not Curve (when in MTG)

Of the "DPS" who do you think might be less than legit, here?

Toog, Manatee.

But Manatee is provable. But I think with what I know Manatee is too much as claimed.

I don’t think she meant she was included in that
She’s not something that adds kills to the game. Manatee was, Toog wasn’t, I am, DGB might have been, and Kate’s claim is one

Why not let her answer?

because I feel like the answer is clear to me and she seems to be rather checked out

Why not let her answer, and stop trying to guess the right answer for her. Because she very much did say that she is a dps, not a support.

Cabd.

I'm Pyke

, not Sona.

I'm Darius

, not Nami.

I don't know a whole lot about League, sorry

Even still, that should have been a signal there’s more to her role than she stated was the point

Even if you don’t understand the actual components of the crumb- I don’t think Luke has as much league knowledge?

I have not played a game of league since like, 2014. But I knew sona and nomi are both supports (I played sona semi-regurally when I played) that was enough for me to get what she was saying there

[Lukewarm]

oof at my editing

[Lukewarm]

also a deeper dive of Luke's posts.

If this is a "look at how town Luke is this game" post, then cool.

But if that is a "one of the two only people reading me correctly atm is second guessing their town read on me post" I will be letting myself be the elim today myself up for the elim today

So I am at, one of me/cabd should go today, no matter what (I have joined the crowd on this one I guess)

Because melo with 2 people scum reading me (cabd + gif) and 1 person on the fence (Kate) is not a world I want to live in. (This is assuming we kill lld, because people are scared of killing cabd).

And me flipping town would force the town inside of [gif, lld, cabd] to stop being waiting for me to die and actually try. Because other then Kate, no one feels like they are really trying atm

That is including me, to be fair. I have my solve, and I'm not looking back until cabd is dead. So like, I get that mindset, not trying to be rude with it. But I don't think an lld (or gif, I guess, but I don't see him going today) town flip would actually lead to a healthy melo state, because who ever lives of those is not gonna actually look at cabd I don't think.

[Lukewarm]

Because I just googled Melty and you're right that Melty shows up with not-a-red-hair. Googling the cast of the same animu tells me that the actual name of the picture that is labelled as Melty is actually Malty.

Something I noticed is that a lot of the names you listed were slightly off. I know pisto from my anime and knuckles from the Sonic one were spelled wrong. I assumed that was a copy error on your part, weird if the mod misspelled them.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke

Can you talk about your read of us and what has shaped it over the course of the game?

Uh, sure.

Day 1:
I had you shifting town very slightly early on, because you guys looked very much like you were fairly aggressively sorting, but that was pretty tentative, because I know you are both pretty good players. At the time I had much stronger town reads and much stronger scum reads, so I was not very focused on you, but that was where you guys were sitting a bit in the background noise of it all [Town lean]

Then you guys started slipping back down in reads, because I started seeing you guys as having some pretty strong partner associative with my two strongest scum reads (toog and dgb), it looked to me like you were positioning yourself to save one of them without looking like you were saving them. Like, you were focusing on leading a push on someone else (and it did not help that the person you were leading the push on was me). The stance that you took with the 3 of us, I could see as you protecting either one: trying to save dgb from Manatee, because you were pushing for me and toog to die that day over it, or setting yourself up to save toog, because you thought manatee was getting ready to kill dgb and once that happened you were gonna lead into me over toog for the last vote. So, you I could see you as a partner to either one, so at that point I did not trust you. [Down to null]

I also did not like my back and forth exchange with ffery. Especially the one where you asked what my excuse was for not interacting with you 1240 [down to scum lean]

And then, you shifted back up to a slight town lean before the end of day 1, but there was not like One Thing that made that transition. I am not currently iso diving you, so this is just the vague things I remember from Day 1 that moved you. I remember you stopped trying to kill me, when killing me was still kinda on the table, which made me feel like you were actually trying to sort me. Also, I started thinking that dgb could be town, so the way you protected it started looking more pro-town. And just in general, our interactions felt better, idk. So you made it up to [null town]

But then you lead the SS elim. Which I felt like that wagon was icky.

Day 2:

At the start of Day 2, my scum reads had both flipped town, so I needed to reevaluate the table.

I was most strongly scum reading Gamma and Wheme. At the time, I had conflicting narratives of the scum team, depending on which of those scum reads I started from.

When I focused on Gamma, I had a narrative in my head where you deciphered Cabd's stuff Katniss, and then you fed the line to Marci to get her town through day 1. Like, of the table I thought that the combined ffery+notty slot would be most likely to be able to do that (and I kinda did not see cabd+gamma, because the way gamma walked out of the clear). But, that would make it hard for wheme to fit into the Gamma+kate team because of him actually claiming the Katniss slot.

So, on the other hand I had a Wheme team, which, when I worked past my bout of paranoia, always had cabd. which then did not involve you feeding a line to gamma anymore.

I was struggling to find a full team, it felt like I had too many pieces, and they were not all able to fit together. This was supposed to be "luke's thoughts on Kate" but you got all tied up in that confusion. But I kinda landed on one of you or Cabd were scum, but was unsure which.

I decided that the rest would be easier to sort through if I could just have a concrete starting point, so I wanted to just sift through Wheme and Gamma, figure out which one was more likely scum, and get the flip before I had to work through the rest of the lobby. I settled on it being Gamma, and I started wanting Gamma to die.

Then we had a surprise tracker guilty. And not just the tracker result, a lot of Dunn's positioning around it and his claim felt off, so suddenly he shot up from no where as a kill priority.

But, I was worried that a Dunn flip would help me sort through my thoughts on the rest of the table, less then a Gamma flip would. So, I prioritized killing Gamma first, and voted him. But then Gamma looked very, very bad after that, and also very very much like Dunn's partner. He was confimed scum in my eyes, so his flip was no longer needed for that, and so killing Dunn first was fine. Gamma would just die the next day.

So, I finally had a solid scum team in my head to look at the other people. with that lens. And yeah, you guys look pretty town in a scum!Dunn + scum!Gamma world. Because otherwise, it means that you guys walked into maybe-melo, and double bussed. And also, Gamma would have had to have walked in to maybe-melo, and decided that his number one push of the day would be on his partner (you).

And then the governor day happened, and you are The Reason Gamma died. So that pushed you into Town Lock territory.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke

Can you talk about your read of us and what has shaped it over the course of the game?

Spoiler: repliy in spoilers because long

Uh, sure.

Day 1:
I had you shifting town very slightly early on, because you guys looked very much like you were fairly aggressively sorting, but that was pretty tentative, because I know you are both pretty good players. At the time I had much stronger town reads and much stronger scum reads, so I was not very focused on you, but that was where you guys were sitting a bit in the background noise of it all [Town lean]

Then you guys started slipping back down in reads, because I started seeing you guys as having some pretty strong partner associative with my two strongest scum reads (toog and dgb), it looked to me like you were positioning yourself to save one of them without looking like you were saving them. Like, you were focusing on leading a push on someone else (and it did not help that the person you were leading the push on was me). The stance that you took with the 3 of us, I could see as you protecting either one: trying to save dgb from Manatee, because you were pushing for me and toog to die that day over it, or setting yourself up to save toog, because you thought manatee was getting ready to kill dgb and once that happened you were gonna lead into me over toog for the last vote. So, you I could see you as a partner to either one, so at that point I did not trust you. [Down to null]

I also did not like my back and forth exchange with ffery. Especially the one where you asked what my excuse was for not interacting with you 1240 [down to scum lean]

And then, you shifted back up to a slight town lean before the end of day 1, but there was not like One Thing that made that transition. I am not currently iso diving you, so this is just the vague things I remember from Day 1 that moved you. I remember you stopped trying to kill me, when killing me was still kinda on the table, which made me feel like you were actually trying to sort me. Also, I started thinking that dgb could be town, so the way you protected it started looking more pro-town. And just in general, our interactions felt better, idk. So you made it up to [null town]

But then you lead the SS elim. Which I felt like that wagon was icky.

Day 2:

At the start of Day 2, my scum reads had both flipped town, so I needed to reevaluate the table.

I was most strongly scum reading Gamma and Wheme. At the time, I had conflicting narratives of the scum team, depending on which of those scum reads I started from.

When I focused on Gamma, I had a narrative in my head where you deciphered Cabd's stuff Katniss, and then you fed the line to Marci to get her town through day 1. Like, of the table I thought that the combined ffery+notty slot would be most likely to be able to do that (and I kinda did not see cabd+gamma, because the way gamma walked out of the clear). But, that would make it hard for wheme to fit into the Gamma+kate team because of him actually claiming the Katniss slot.

So, on the other hand I had a Wheme team, which, when I worked past my bout of paranoia, always had cabd. which then did not involve you feeding a line to gamma anymore.

I was struggling to find a full team, it felt like I had too many pieces, and they were not all able to fit together. This was supposed to be "luke's thoughts on Kate" but you got all tied up in that confusion. But I kinda landed on one of you or Cabd were scum, but was unsure which.

I decided that the rest would be easier to sort through if I could just have a concrete starting point, so I wanted to just sift through Wheme and Gamma, figure out which one was more likely scum, and get the flip before I had to work through the rest of the lobby. I settled on it being Gamma, and I started wanting Gamma to die.

Then we had a surprise tracker guilty. And not just the tracker result, a lot of Dunn's positioning around it and his claim felt off, so suddenly he shot up from no where as a kill priority.

But, I was worried that a Dunn flip would help me sort through my thoughts on the rest of the table, less then a Gamma flip would. So, I prioritized killing Gamma first, and voted him. But then Gamma looked very, very bad after that, and also very very much like Dunn's partner. He was confimed scum in my eyes, so his flip was no longer needed for that, and so killing Dunn first was fine. Gamma would just die the next day.

So, I finally had a solid scum team in my head to look at the other people. with that lens. And yeah, you guys look pretty town in a scum!Dunn + scum!Gamma world. Because otherwise, it means that you guys walked into maybe-melo, and double bussed. And also, Gamma would have had to have walked in to maybe-melo, and decided that his number one push of the day would be on his partner (you).

And then the governor day happened, and you are The Reason Gamma died. So that pushed you into Town Lock territory.

Thanks for laying that out.

My big takeaway is that you were teamsolving on day 1. Is this something you usually do in games? I hadn't really noticed it, even in this game, until you laid out your thought process.

I would not say that I was team solving day one.

My biggest scum reads were Toog, DGB, and Marci. And none of them were based on team solving. I found each of them independently scummy. Although, I did think that Toog and DGB were never scum together.

You could be seen as the exception to that, but even when I was looking at you, I was not trying to team solve. It just really pinged me the way you were positioning yourself with respect to DGB+Toog+Me, and it felt agenda driven to me, which felt scummy.

That did end up with me thinking you were partnered with one of them, but I was not setting out trying to find their partners, I just did not like or understand your position, and it made more sense to me at the time that you were scum trying to save a partner then that you were a townie.

[Lukewarm]

I mean, I had like 5 bullet points, and I think that one looks that way. And even that I would say that you were the exception not the rule. So, I think that it is wrong to say that I was, in general team solving.

So yes, my read on exactly you was swayed a bit by associative, but I would not use that to describe my approach to the game as a whole. This is probably a pointless distinction, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i

The Agenda Driven part was your crusade to kill me at the time, over one of toog / dgb. It felt wrong. I did not feel like you could possibly have as strong of a scum read on me as you were claiming to have, especially with how little you guys had been interacting with me. I remember at one point you said something to me like "how do you expect to sort us without interacting with us" and I was like, they are saying this while literally championing my death while they have also not interacted much with me. Felt bad. Felt like you were approaching with the intent to have a scum read, vs actually having it. And then when I looked at you post 1129, it like clicked in my head that you were actually just trying to save one of Toog / DGB. Because the thread momentum was leading towards a Toog+DGB elim, and then your crusade looked like it was trying to throw wrench into that. Either to change it from Toog+DGB to Toog+Luke OR setting up for whenever the seemingly inevitable Manatee kill on DGB, to then transition away from Toog and towards me.

It started more with "Their read and crusade on me feels fake" to a realization of "here is a scum motivation for them to be doing exactly what they are doing"

(even this point I feel like I did not approach it trying to team solve, even if it came across that way)

Also this post feels icky to write, because I am now pretty sure that you are town, but that is what I felt at the time which is what you asked me

[Lukewarm]

idk if I did a great job explaining that in 5019, because I am made that post all from memory, without opening up your iso at all to remind myself what I saw as it was happening. You guys have over 1,000 posts, so scrolling through your iso to answer your question did not look like it would be a good time.

[Lukewarm]

I cannot tell if you are saying in that post that it makes you think I am town or scum -- Although, to be real with you, it is nai.

It is not an alignment thing. It is a me, as a person, thing.

I have pretty good recall, especially when I am actively trying to remember like when you asked me specifically to work through the game. In life, that means excellent test taking abilities (graduating high school salutatorian, while simultaneously getting two associates degrees by the time I was 18, and getting 1460/2060 SAT score, and then going to a top rated university - UNC Chapel Hill)

followed by a quick realization that being good at school is actually a bit meaningless in the real world

So I get the feeling that your "clean" meter does not mean much of anything on me ffery.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Luke

Rather it now then to lose it in Elo

[Lukewarm]

It feels like me dying now is the best thing for the game state, but it also means ill be losing my streak, which is kinda sad.

I have never actually been miselimed before in any game I've been in :/

[Lukewarm]

Actually

UNVOTE:

Just for a min. Want to do a final post, then I will put it back

[Lukewarm]

First, I am pretty sure that I should just die here.

There are 5 other people alive, and atm 4 of them think it could be me, and 3 of them have settled into a "we are not solving any more until Luke is dead," so yeah, I think that means me dying is the best for the game state, because that will force all 3 of them to come up with a new solve and actually look at the rest of the table. That includes which ever is scum, they will be forced to come up with a new solve too, and hopefully that will give new light for people to look at them.

I am also wavering in my Cabd solve a bit, so I think that forcing everyone else to do a hard reset it probably better even then us killing Cabd, and possibly leave me walking into melo with All Of The Scum Reads. And I almost feel like I should be apologizing, because in an ideal world, I would just buckle down and try and make it happen, because killing someone who is not me definitely has a higher chance of killing scum, so I Should be pulling up my boot straps, pouring through this game to shore up my solve, and trying to force an elim on Cabd (or another if that pouring lead me somewhere else),and ready to saying fuck it, I will fight tomorrow if I am wrong, but I just am not feeling it, and I haven't been feeling it since like day 1 of this game. And that is not a this game thing, that is a real life thing. I just don't have the energy available to me to pour into this game to try and make sure I have a right solve today or to sign up for a slog tomorrow.

I am also wavering in my Cabd solve a bit

This. I still think he is my best guess, and where I would start the hunt tomorrow, but the way other people have danced around my elim makes it harder for me to be as confident that they are town. Because to be real with you, I feel like I am pretty obviously town here, and each person that started joining the Luke train felt like someone trying to widden the elim pool by one, and since that is now like the entire lobby, I don't even know anymore.

It just feel very very strange that in the first half of Day 2 we were here

I don't want to be the town leader, but it feels like I am the universal town read

The pressure

And now we are where we are. Which is part of that feeling I was getting that each person that joined the train was just trying to nudge in an extra elim. Because, what happened from that point to this point was a back to back scum elims, with me having dug into both slots, been pretty vocal in scum reading both slots, and on both wagons. So it just feels wrong.

And I look at each person, and I ask why we are here with them ready to kill me, and not one of them has really made me understand (which is the other part of why each one looked like they could be scum trying to buy that elim that they needed).

LLD

I am sticking by what I said before. Their scum read on me is lazy.

Like, looking at their progression to reaching the point of "its just luke" does not feel real to me. When they started trying to kill me in Day 2, it was very much a poe'ed themselves into it, without actually looking at me at all. They openly outlined their poe thought process in 4493. Then Kate asks them if they ever looked at associative with me, and they said that they had not but that they would do it 4510. But it never happened. I have not seen a single reason that LLD thinks that it is me, and they have instead just settled into a "I am ready to kill Luke" mode ever since.

Like, just for your viewing pleasure, here is (I think) every post LLD talked about me since that point (I skipped a couple that had my name in them, but I was not the subject of the post)

Spoiler:

I think NL is just the worst here.

I want to do Luke. Kate, Kyouko, please.

Honestly I just wanna kill Luke.

Like you gotta die Cabd but I still think it is Luke at this point.

If Kate is scum and I had them day 1 I...

Like honestly I wanna do Luke Kate over Cabd Luke but losing to Cabd is MISERY in this spot

Cabd, you're gonna need to stop being selfish I think.

Define "selfish"?

You are making this day weird by demanding your own death for the selfish reason that you don't want t have to fight tomorrow if Luke is wrong.

And as a result you're skewing all of the information available, demotivating everyone involved and also making it harder to play around this stupid mystery game.

It's selfish behaviour because you don't wanna give someone the satisfaction if they are scum? Are you kidding me?

Sorry, I'm like, ubertilted.

What do you want to do?

Do you think that gif's prize is worth eliminating him here?

Do you want to just kill luke outright?

Right now it's essentially the gif-cabd-kate three player band here so I'll step back, but nobody else is really... doing anything.

I want to kill Luke today, and if the game doesn't end... We're looking at a team that contains Dunnstral and Gamma.

I don't know if Dunnstral dies the way he did if you're on his team. I don't know that you do the thing with Marci if you're on her team. It's harder for me to see that. Not impossible, but harder.

So at that point... it's

"Could GIF have killed using me while no longer in the real world?"

vs.

"Does Cabd really do the things with Marci and let Dunn die if they're scum together?"

vs.

"Is the stuff that made Kate obvious town to me really untrue?"

Which I'm more willing to assess and develop tomorrow, I think.

There are two town players being really lazy in [lld, cabd, gif].

Looking at my interactions with Marci, and Marci's interactions with me (she basically pushed me all of day 1 up until her rep out, and I vocally scum read her all the way to her rep out)

And then looking at my interactions with Gamma - calling his rep in scummy, trapping him into voting dunn making him look like shit, hammering him in the governor phase.

I actually think that I am pretty clearly not aligned with that slot.

I think that Gif's is probably the most egregious, because he is at "bet the game that it is Luke" given his self vote plan (same would apply to cabd if he turns out to be town)

Like, I really think that those players have not even looked at me, and it is kinda sad.

I have thought you were scum since yesterday and even called you a possible Gamma partner since that long too. I don't know why you think I'm being lazy or not doing my due dillegence.

GiF, I wanna do Luke and then discuss between Kate and Cabd tomorrow honestly. I think Luke ends the game.

Honestly, I want everyone to say who they want to vote out today.

I wanna do Luke.

Can anyone look at that and tell that they actually looked at me like they said they did? or that they actually scum read me for any reason? Because all I see is "I want to kill Luke" over and over with a level of certaintly that feels wrong given the poe nature of their read on me and the skill level of this table. Because she is apparently pretty sure that it is me, even though its poe, when she is sitting at a table with someone of the strongest scum players I have encountered on site, and that feels wrong. Maybe scummy, but if town, lazy, idk.

But I still have her more likely to be town then Cabd, because of her claim combined with then being tracked to the kill night 1 Dunn doing the kill.

Gif

5018 does a pretty good job of incapsulating that "not sure if scummy or lazy." Like, he said the quiet part out loud. He sees the evidence that points towards me being town, but there he has "evidence" (in quotes because cabd's entry) for the other people being town, so Luke death it is. As opposed to questioning how he could have evidence on everyone at the table being town, and doing a reset.

But I still have him more likely to be town then cabd, because Gamma did not target himself with the governor ability.

Kate

Yeah, Kate too. Because unlike the others, they actually had me as a pretty strong town read, even walking into this day phase. And yet here we are, with them joining the Luke train. I think the late join is actually extra bad, since literally none of cabd, lld, or gif even put out a case to sway them. It just kinda happened once it was clear that there were the votes for it.

That being said, they are still more likely to be town then cabd because they would have to be bus master central this game if they are scum, the gamma kill being especailly town indicative for them, because they could have easily let a no elim happen, and would not have even had to lead it. Both myself and cabd made the case for no elim, they could have EASILY just sheeped that, while keeping up the "gamma is clearly scum tho" line.

Cabd

The prize at the end of the tunnel for reading through all of the shade I had for the other people, the actual scum case for my scum read!

Cabd is either scum, or consistently on the wrong side of history this game. A town!Cabd would at the very least be honorary scum number 4.

--------------------------

Day 1, Cabd single handedly saved the Marci/Gamma slot from elimination. Marci was a scum read of a lot of people, and I don't think there is ever a world where Marci did not die over SS if it was not for Cabd.

Important thing I think people should consider, is that Cabd started trying to save Marci before the clear stuff ever happened. 465 498

I also, am once again stuck on his use of the word "fluffy" to describe shiro. But also, that whole exchange really.

Spoiler:

LLD CAN I PLEASE VOTE MARCISTAR

the sky has opened up and told me this is a sign..
why r u so excited to vote me?

Oh my.

Kate?

LLD CAN I PLEASE VOTE MARCISTAR

the sky has opened up and told me this is a sign..
why r u so excited to vote me?

Cute flat lass? Fluffy?

LLD CAN I PLEASE VOTE MARCISTAR

the sky has opened up and told me this is a sign..
why r u so excited to vote me?

Cute flat lass? Fluffy?

yeah..?

KATEEEEEEEEEEEE your nugget just grew into an entire bag of Kirkland ready to eat frozen meals.

Things that stand out to me:

664

- I firmly believe that that line was fed to Marci (cabd or no cabd). That is not normal Marci speak, Marci does not play the crumb game, and she does not have the anime knowledge to do it. Obviously cabd could feed it to her, but I don't know who else even could fed it to her at that point in the game.

On the Mech side, they would have had to have deciphered from Cabd that (a) Cabd was informed that someone else was town, but that (b) he only had the flavor clear, not the player name. I know he had that "Beast" crumb, but in FGO Beast knew exactly who, not just a flavor name, so they had to get that second step from somewhere else.

And on the flavor side, they would have to have figured out that he was (c) from No Game No Life AND that he was (d) specifically the angel character (in order for marci's post to flag him)

Kate / Cabd can talk about whether there were enough crumbs from Cabd for someone to have pieced together all 4 parts of that needed for anyone not named Cabd to feed marci that line.

665

the response from Cabd coming in the immediate next post irks me in a "they were both just on talking about this plan in the scum chat" kind of way

666

Okay. Lets pretend you are a town cabd, looking specifically for a player who is shiro or sora. Are you asking if marci is a "cute flat lass" or "fluffy?" -- These question disregards the idea that she could be sora, but the "cute flat lass" is SUCH a broad descriptor, that is seems almost designed to pull in a false positive. And fluffy...? It is an odd enough choice even before you realize that Marci's flavor was actually a cat girl, but adding that in, I once again get the feeling that the false positive was planned, and leaving them both plausible deniability if the other flipped. Marci can say that she is a car girl, so the word fluffy pinged her. Cabd gets to point at her original post, and say that that pinged him.

707

- Further points to marci having been fed the line with intent for the clear. Why would scum!marci openly agree with someone asking her flavor, unless she knew what was happening.

708

- again, with then cabd response being in the immediate next post.

But all in all, Cabd single handedly saved Marci day 1. And for context, I think that Cabd would do that after Tarot. I feel like there is a VERY high chance that Marci walked into the scum chat saying how scared she was that she was gonna die off the bat day 1 again after Tarot, and how bad that mad her feel, and that she hates letting her team down like that. And I can see Cabd (after being a big part of her dying that way in Tarot) trying to come up with a plan to help her avoid a repeat.

So, he saved Marci. Either scum, or on the wrong side of history

--------------

Other day 1 thought includes the fact that all of his scum reads have flipped town, including being on the Toogtus and the SS wagons.

Either scum, on the wrong side of history for all of that too


--------------

The secret manatee vote. It was gross, and bad.

Scum, or wrong side of history.

-------------

Day 2:
Dunn got tracked to the kill

Cabd has very little to say on this for a long. Kyouko outs the result in 3672, he drops a little bit of shade on the tracker claim 3726, then radio silence on it for a couple days. Then we get 4142. Which, imo, looks like hedging his bets. Dunn is red so if he flips he has that in his iso, but kyouko is orange, just in case the tracker result will be doubted. tbh, his section on kyouko seems forced.

And thats it. those two are his only posts talking about the tracker from the time that kyouko mentions it all the way up to Dunn being dead. Both posts shading kyouko.

Scum, or wrong side of history on the kyouko v dunn

-----------------

Marci/Gamma is revealed to never have been shiro, and here is Cabd's stance

Spoiler:

If gamma/marcislot ~is~ scum, it's with somebody fluent in crumbs. I'm still not sure that the reply to me is all that awkward as Luke makes it out to be though, as opposed to just flavor-dressing... but we won't know until we get a flavor and role claim from Gamma.

Frankly, I find it pretty sus that he did not turn around and scum read the slot. Marci was hella scummy day 1, and cabd seemed to build that read solely on her appearing to be shiro. And then she isnt. And his response is to still defend her slot with this post.

Scum, or... you get the idea

-----------------

He was not on the gamma govenor wagon

....

----------------

Then he walked into this day phase professing to be ready to bet the game on me being scum.

-----------------------



So yeah. I think I got everything out of me you are gonna get this game. I feel like it has to be cabd, like all signs point that way. But then EveryOne Else decided to come at this day in a way that shakes my certainty (except kyouko, kyouko you are doing amazing)

Spoiler:

So yeah, I am not prepared to bet the game on it, and would rather just press the escape button and parachute out, and let you guys duke it out tomorrow.

Luke out

VOTE: Luke

[Lukewarm]

Luke's posts over the last 8-12 hours have shaken my read up all over again -- effort-posting

The thing that makes me most concerned about Luke is that he hasn't shown the tenacity I've come to expect from him. His day 2 posts after Dunn's elim in particular gave off a sense that he'd checked out and just wanted the day to end. Feeling that way is one thing. Saying it out loud is another thing, and I've just not seen that kind of emotional reveal from him in prior games.

Kill me today, and adjust for this in future games, because it feels like you are backwards in the way you are reading me.

I think that my two most consistently high effort games were my two real scum games -- your newbie and then popcorn. That newbie game had high effort luke literally from the start to the moment I died, and that hectic quote in my signature is because I basically efforted my way out of a scum read from him.

And the emotional stuff and the lack of tenacity both are pretty absent from my scum games I am pretty sure, and has more to do with the fact that because of real life I was barely hanging on to this game, and came really really close to repping out Day 2. But I felt like the night phase was on the horizon and decided to stick it out. And then the day did not end... And then I was in a player list that I felt more comfortable expressing that. I have played multiple games with every player in this lobby except gif and that every player except kyouko is in our discord group, so this is probably the most comfortable player list I have ever sat in.

But those are new notes for the Luke folder for future games. I need out, please vote me

[Lukewarm]

Actually. I don't think I need the Kate vote, if kyouko has joined

[Lukewarm]

The thing that makes me most concerned about Luke is that he hasn't shown the tenacity I've come to expect from him

Just, this. I have noticed that this is true for most players that I have played with. If I am not coming at a game with 100%, then I am scum read. Which I guess I did not myself, because for a long time I was coming at every game with 100%.

But Scum Luke also comes at games with 100%, so it feels weird to see repeatedly, across game, coming from different players the idea that a more subdued Luke is likely a scum Luke.

In Flea's Chrono Trigger game, I had someone tell me that I must be scum because I did not lock onto a target and hyper try to push them out.
In this game, Unwnd said that since I "did not do anything" with the space he gave me, I must be scum.
Your now saying that the fact that I checked out a bit, I must be scum.
I felt like that was a big part of the scum reads on me in Bloodstained.

But in all actuality, its real life man.

For the first like several months that I was on site, I was almost bed ridden as I was either going through and then recovering from my extensive chemo treatments, which meant I was basically always laying in bed or on the couch next to my laptop, and was pretty able to just poor all of my time into games.

But that is not the case anymore. I am back to having a functional life, and that makes it harder for me to put that level of time and energy and effort into my games, and it feels like that has resulted in me getting scum read in like every game I have played for the last few months, because I am not hitting the baseline that I kind of set for myself any more.

[Lukewarm]

LLD is not currently on you but presumably would vote you

Yeah, LLD + Cabd gets me out of this game

[Lukewarm]

VC3.1

Player	Votes	Voters
Cabd	2	Cabd, Lukewarm
Not Voting	---	ssbm_Kyouko, Lady Lambdadelta, Kate Bishop, GuyInFreezer

With 6 alive it takes 4 to eliminate.

And now we have kyouko making 3

[Lukewarm]

Just checked, your last vote was on me, but it was from Day 2 , part 2.

You have not voted yet this day phase.

You get the hammer

[Lukewarm]

Wait. No. that vote cabd is pre self vote.

still need you AND Cabd on wagon

[Lukewarm]

5057 is a nonsense post written too fast.

The last vote count, which I quoted, I am still on Cabd. It is before my self vote. At that time, no one was voting me. (I misread it as me and cabd both voting for me)

Since then, I self voted and kyouko voted me, giving me 2 votes.

So, the wagon still needs to see both LLD and Cabd

[Lukewarm]

Oh, that's e1, should I claim? ~~

[Lukewarm]

I'm town.

Have fun in melo.

[Lukewarm]

I'll just say gif, maybe look at my cabd case.

I don't think we just had "silly reasons" like you said before

[Lukewarm]

But if I'm right here, I can kinda redeem myself from that Wheme read.
I can go "oh yeah I was right on Cabd since Day 1 while the others scumread him for silly reason"

This one

[Lukewarm]

Also, first time getting miselimed, leterally ever

[Lukewarm]

Cabd's last few posts are fucking cringe.

Co-sign.

+1

[Lukewarm]

I'll just say gif, maybe look at my cabd case.

I don't think we just had "silly reasons" like you said before

Oh yeah, I forgot to add to that chase the fact that he is radio silent while gamma is at e-1, then instantly there twilight posting after I hammered gamma. Sus

[Lukewarm]

If anyone wants to do the scavenger hunt let me know

You will probably need to give yourself a fairly sizable amount of time to do it although the intended length™ was ~1 hour with good google skills or isekai knowledge

I would not wish this experience on my worst enemy x.x

[Lukewarm]

Although it might not be so bad, if there are not steaks to it. I felt like me doing food or bad could be the difference in the game (and ik the end, I think me winning was a factor in melo). So it was STRESSFUL. And took over an hour. So it was over an hour of pure stress.

Might not be that way if you're just doing it for shits and giggles

[Lukewarm]

Yeah that was a massive error on the mod’s side
ROLE COP NEVER DIRECTLY RETURNS ALIGNMENT. The only alignment revelation involved with rolecop should be implicit by revealing fake claims or finding alignment-limited roles.

I think you misread whemes post.

The mod ran the ability the correct way, but wheme misunderstood his ability when he targeted me.

[Lukewarm]

what are you redacting Kyouko? Nothing game related I hope, something personal right?

cause if it's a game thing redacting it would be kind of bad

One part of my read on Luke. It turned out to be wrong obviously, but I dont want him to try to replicate it intentionally as scum in the future to appear town to me

Well damn. Now I'm super curious lol

[Lukewarm]

Also Toog, I'm sorry you went through that and I'm haveglad to hear you were able to work through it.

I have enjoyed your presence in every game we've played together, and hope to run into you more in the future

[Lukewarm]

Luke shoving himself into the wood-chipper was unexpected but neato.

I am full of surprises

[Lukewarm]

Well this is the first time in ages that town won after miseliminating me.

Good job guys.

Maybe this one did not count, because in spirit we were miseliming Toog lol