Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Fun and Games]

cuz we're 1 day from mylo and she's better than me at it

I'd like to hear your thoughts. You were a primary pusher on Gamma from D1. I want to know what the reevaluation is.

Honestly, my poe is fairly similar: i still think bingle is town, i feel decent abt sa and enchant, and possibly you

Gun-to-head dwlee is town, and i still have a hard time seeing toog scum with ico

So i'm looking at everyone else

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Andante PenguinPower
Dwlee99 Not_Mafia
Toogeloo Dunnstral
Sleepless Assassin
Fun and Games (skitter30 & PookyTheMagicalBear)
Bingle
VP Baltar
Enchant

Going off of this:
- andante: i lowkey think she townslipped yesterday but her entrance today doesn't make sense to me
- dwlee: meh tbh
- toog: not independantly townie but would be floored if ico spends his whole day1 pushing his partner
- sa: i do kinda like that he consistently fid push ico. Would be really surprised at a sa/vp/ico team fwiw
- bingle: still probably town?
- vpb: not as confident in townreading him anymore
- enchant: tbh i dont think he lolhammers this way as scum

This is where i'm at

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Also vp what are ur thoughts on sa presently?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

He was a significant sr of you day1, what changed?

And uh we didnt, i logged on and saw that so just shared them. Why are you asking this?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

We dont. Those are my reads, not ours or pookys.

R.e. sa i would like to hear more abt what you saw n1 when you have a chance pleasw?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

thank you!

And ig fwiw the biggest differences between me and pooky is that he thinks andante is townier than i do, and he thinks sa and yourself are scummier than i do

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

skitter almost seemed to know Darby was flipping scum

i mean i didn't know, he was just my biggets scumread

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

like i said we were p confident that he was flipping scum
if you want to post that we're partners with him i'd like you to explain our entire day1 interactions where we spent most of the day pushing him

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

sa is very unlikely to be scum given that he camped on ico/darby the entire game

you look worse than i thought day1 for being offwagon, and i'm realizing taht i have v little reason to townread dwlee

i also don't think ico camps on a buddy, so i think that's +town for toog

i also somewhat object to the notion that our vote on ico looks like a bus :shrug:

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Bussing is a thing that happens but I'd have to look close before convincing myself whether you actually did or not.

ok plz do so and lmk if u have any questions

[Fun and Games]

I am optimistic for this flip

~ skitter

for me, it was: darby's reluctance to claim + 1995

why were u confident he was flipping scum in post 1996

If darby flips scum though, that's likely dats confirmtown. If Gamma is scum as well, today was a complete cluster fuck for the red jerseys

kinda sounds like baltar scum tsk tsking at his soon to be fallen comrades :3

to clarify i didn't write this one so i can't answer questions abt it ^

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i also somewhat object to the notion that our vote on ico looks like a bus :shrug:

do you think scum bus in that situation with Darby?

Also noticed you didn't say anything about Enchant there.

sure, but votes after a50's are more likely to be bussing votes than votes prior imo

also i didn't have anything more to say about enchant than what i already said, i'm not sure what you're calling out here. i'm p sure on the prior page i said i didn't think the hammers come from scum

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i also don't think ico camps on a buddy, so i think that's +town for toog

why not camp on a buddy with a wagon that's not really going anywhere despite my best efforts?

uh i recall more of your efforts day1 being on SA?

and that was ico's one and only push basically, you're trying to tell me taht his only push of the game was on a buddy?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

what's the point of asking me about having basically the same reaction to the same post that you did

you're basically criticizing my 2007 when your 1996 has the exact same sentiment for the same reasons based on the same post ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

As far as Ico, I can't speak to what he would do, but it's also not like he found his footing this game. I don't think it's that crazy of a possibility. It's all speculation either way you look at it unfortunately.

i mean it isn't impossible, but, like i would be p surprised

like i said we were p confident that he was flipping scum

After the hammer, what made you confident he was flipping red though?

maybe criticize is the wrong word but you're adding some oomph to SA's assertion that we were overconfident r.e. ico's flip with this and i'm pointing out that you had literally the same reaction we did so not sure why you're asking this

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i got the confidence from darby failing to claim + 1995

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Fun and Games was all "A50 has to be town" the only one who really saw the momentum flip, I see no reason scum would leave skitter and pooky alive here either, those 2 are strong players individually, and now they are 1. Fun and Games is 10000% flipping scum

Hello i need more of an explanation for how you went from mindmeld yesterday to this

~ skitter

@andante when u have a chance plz

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

You suggesting scum don't hammer partners or miselims?

No, i'm saying i sont think the way enchant did it is scum-indicative, and i think this post is somewhat straw-manning-y

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yes but the analysis is good imo, and +town for sa

What do u think of my vote on u

@dwlee

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yes but the analysis is good imo, and +town for sa

What do u think of my vote on u

@dwlee

~ skitter

I think you want me to post more

Yes + want to hear more abt your scumreads
Also you're probably the person/slot i townread the least

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Am thinking though that Enchant/F&G are most likely bus votes despite this, although idk if F&G would be paying attention to the whole third vote thing. (Would you?)

Not sure what you're asking tbh

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I really want to Iso Almost50 too but don't know of I have time. I'm working 16 hours today just to get up on short sleep and work again tomorrow then the weekend is who the hell knows but probably even worse. Thanks COVID.

Oh speaking of that I should probably say in here

V/LA until Monday

I'll be trying to check in but I won't be myself.

Oh no i hope today doesnt end up being too bad

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Do you believe in the third vote on a wagon tell

no

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

No scumreads?

not really tbh, rn i'm just ranking people in order of how much i do (or don't) townread them

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yeah, I briefly gave stuff last night on that, but basically, yes I agreed on the gamma vote, but it felt like yall were trying to rush the gamma lim, and me seeing A50 die over yall, got me super suspicious, but like, I've had time to think, I think yall would've killed A50 over Dats, so I'm no longer as nervous in yall flipping scum, yeah. My brain makes 50 million leaps.
If the scum team isn't VP and Dwlee, I have no freaking clue who it is, maybe dunn/toog can get tossed in there? idk, I've been skimming some, Sleepless has so many words, I'm sure they're good words, but essays lose me, I prefer the tldr for stuff not "here's an essay on this"

i mean i wasn't trying to rush it, it's not my fault gamma selfed and then enchant hammered

i did want him flipped but certainly not within that timeframe

n1? absolutely would not have killed dats
sleepless's words i feel like are townie, and while i don't townread toog i still feel like the slot is anti-associated with ico

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

shocking

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Fun and Games

also a self-note to me to pick up reading from the point in D1 where FG says they're considering voting Ico but want to see a vote count first.

Elaborate plz

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

@vp why is that scum indicative

@bingle: first paragraph: loosely town indicative imo, since he did it gor both alignments
Not sure what you're saying with the second one

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Uh i have several objections:

- we're not being 'guarded' you keep trying to push that narrative when its not a thing that's happening. Where exactly do you see this happening? And how are we at once being guarded and loose ...?

- the fact that gamma suspected us is irrelevant, and the speedyeet is not our responsibility or fault. He also suspected you, i dont get why this is a relevant data point

- i disagree that our playstyle has shifted, and if it has i would like to elaborate on how you think it has and why that's scummy

- ico's entrance to the thread was awful. We chose to give him time in case he was just having an offday or being busy. We were badgering dats abt his read since dats is incredibly good at reading him, so i wanted to validate if our read made sense. (And when dats wouldnt i got suspicious, and i would have pushed yesterday off of associatives if he hadnt, like, died that night). So yeah in that interim we concentrated on other people, what else should we have done? And yeah we returned when the wayon was more viable and when we were p confident we were netting a scum flip. Are you basically positing that we're scum with ico, pushed him since like p2, but badgered dats to gauge how viable a wagon was while pushing our partner the whole time? That doesnt even make sense ...

- why was cakez being sus of us even relevat to anything, even if you posit we're scum dats is the one who killed him ...

Pedit @vp

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I feel like a lot of what you jist wrote up is shade tbh

Pedit that's what you took away from that ?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

He also suspected you

gamma did not suspect me past our spat on D1. He was calling me town.

I dont remember exactly when he switched, but again, why is this relevant

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Him not posting != 'guarded'
It means he's bored, and that's not scum indicative

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

That's a strawman, and the fact rhat he's confirmed town doesnt mean his reads are right, as evidenced by the fact that he spent half of day1 pushing you from your pov, and you're being selective in looking at gamma and cakez, and not dats or a50

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I see it happening in Pooky straight not posting. I asked for his scum reads, he said "skitter will handle that". Huh interesting. That wasn't an issue before.

Also how on earth is this being guarded, i literally answeted that question like 10 minutes after this ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

We were pushing ico for most of the day ...

Why is more likely that we wete scum bussing when the wagon became viable than town waiting for the wagon to be viable exactly?

If we're the former why dont we hop off when gamma then became viable?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

You're ignoring the firsf half of that post, just pointing that out

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Which, in my mind, is significantly more important than the second half

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Him not posting != 'guarded'
It means he's bored, and that's not scum indicative

~ skitter

I don't believe Pooky is bored really. He likes to play the game. Look at him going buck wild yesterday with Andante trying to spam me into the dirt. He was having fun.

Pooky is a bombastic player who is smart enough to know that following a miselim you had a hand in, that type of play isn't likely to go over well. So skitter will handle it raises my hackles.

Also, pooky is bored, but ready to drop a response the moment I vote you? okee dokee.

Again you're failing to explain why this is scum indicative
He also isnt exactly a 'guarded' scum player (if anything i'm the one who would be) or afraid to post ...

And if he was having fun as scum with andante yesterday, why does he suddenly choose to become guarded, this isnt even internally consistant ...

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

You're ignoring the firsf half of that post, just pointing that out

~ skitter

No it doesn't mean his reads are right, but I've never played with you skitter. Two players who have and who I know are town said your posting style felt off to them very early on. Why should I not consider that?

That's the same reason you "pushed" Ico from very early on. Seems a valid concern doesn't it?

Neither of them know how to read me, so i wouldnt give a lot of weight to it
(Like cakez for example townread me in the last 2 games i played with town-him, and i was scum. Me being off in comparison to that means what exactly?)

Ironically enuf i would give more weight to a50's read but this is the one you want to ignore so eh

Dunno what you mean by the last paragraph

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: vpbaltar

This is nonsense and seems like you're trying to construct a narrative

Pedit ya i agree

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

And if he was having fun as scum with andante yesterday, why does he suddenly choose to become guarded, this isnt even internally consistant .

Because gamma flipped green. You need to be sufficiently contrite.

Acting erratically is more likely to draw attention after a miselim. And you post much more rationally and calmly skitter.

I'm not contrite at all, and dont regret the flip. Gamma looked like an ico partner

I am also incredibly confident that pooky can talk off the gamma misflip if we were scum

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Ironically enuf i would give more weight to a50's read

and why's that?

He knows how to read me, and has demonstrated it by reading me properly numerous times

And for your other question: idk we havent spoke abt the game since night

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Prior to voting me, you were voting Dwlee....which felt very limp and lhf.

It was limp, sure. I admitted as much later on. I still think you're trying to find reasons to scumread us, and dont actually do

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

we r hypocopping an inno on SA

[Fun and Games]

Also, pooky is bored, but ready to drop a response the moment I vote you? okee dokee.

We had a disagreement on reads and I defer to skitter when that happens because she is awesome and much more invested in this game :3

[Fun and Games]

Skitter is definitely a strong player - I'm just paranoid here because they are good at snowing me and when they are town I feel I get a certain vibe from their play that I am not getting here.

Gonna point out that i believe i was actually scum in many of those instances >.>

~ skitter

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

That my friends is called a bear trap.

ROFLMAO

[Fun and Games]

so during my conversation with Skitter last night

I tried to sell her on VPB-scum but she didn't think it was right but now she does so! :3


This is the last VC before D1-End:




Dwlee then votes for Gamma to put him at E-1 "I can sheep this"

then our hero-monkey A50 posts this beauty: 1861



This post flips the momentum on the wagons from Gamma dying d1 6-3 to 5-4 and if gamma flips suddenly Darby is leading.


Reading the aftermath - the only person who pushes back against A50 vote flipping is VPB:




This post kind of makes no sense because;

what does he hate about this post from A50? There's no reasoning given! It's just trying to shove A50 back on the Gamma-wagon by berating him..

Bad Monkey!!! Very Bad!! Bad!!

[Fun and Games]

VP TMI'd me as town here.

I thought you didn't believe in TMI

[Fun and Games]

Gamma's scum accusations against F&G came later in the day.

And also were quite clearly rageOMGUS, not "Skitter's play is off."

VOTE: VP

Maybe I'm being greedy, but I think VP TMI'd me as town here.

Fwiw i dont think he did

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

A50 flipped form Gamma to Darby.

One viable wagon to another viable wagon.

That shouldn't raise a question for you unless you heavily prefer eliminating Gamma over eliminating Darby on D1 and if you actually do have such a preference you should be stating clearly WHY you want to flip Gamma over Darby.

[Fun and Games]

So Pooky, if I'm understanding correctly, you came into today wanting to go both barrels on me, but skitter wasn't sure, and so you agreed to not post as much then because your reads were out of alignment?

Is that what happened?

I tend to be more tunnelly and rarely change my mind unless something dramatic happens that resets my world view.

She has a more holistic approach where she likes to poke and things and figure things out.

I'm not going to shout over her because she's better at catching scum than I am and she's very nice.

[Fun and Games]

that literally makes no sense

[Fun and Games]

Pretty sure if you bus your teammate and you have a very good bus seat you don't give up your bus seat randomly when your teammate looks like he's going down just to swing the wagon to someone else that's town.

The associatives are absolutely dreadful and you put your teammate in danger for like literally no reason.

[Fun and Games]

I don't believe any rational person could think that A50 was scum bussing Gamma and decided to get off the bus when Gamma is SELF-VOTING at E-1.

[Fun and Games]

I'm really only trying to understand when and why the decision was made to defer to skitter for today when you had been posting earlier in the game no problem. Skitter says you're bored, which I'm not sure if that's actually it.

It is boring to me to not attack the people I scumread but I'd still do it for her because she is awesome :3

[Fun and Games]

It feels like you don't really have much to attack me with so you're reaching for some nonsense about me not posting being scum!indicative

which is kind of hilarious because I'm probably one of the more flamboyant scum players on the site and I like posting as scum :3

[Fun and Games]

I think people who go looking for TMI are likely to see geese in every bush, but I do think that TMI happens. Possibly because I've seen it happen.

I still think that Flea slip was TMI :#

[Fun and Games]

how sure are you on dunn being scum?

70%?

I'm interested in hearing from you if you think his play differs here from when he was scum with you on D1. Just feel like I've tried to give him opportunities to engage with me in a real way, and he's trying to end those as fast as possible to return to lurking. It's major bad vibes for me.

I feel better about yeeting there than most anywhere else. Sleepless has given me some bad vibes as well. I maybe feel like giving Gamma a pass for today because I can't say I have a great track record reading him.

I guess if my vote is needed on the Ico wagon to finish it, I'm not opposed, but it feels slightly too popular for ambiguous reasons to me.

like look at this weird soft defense of ico while pushing for dunn elim on d1

like wtf is this lol

[Fun and Games]

VPBaltar's entire D1 ISo might as well say "i want to kill any1 except Ico cuz I love dragons"

[Fun and Games]

Iconeum pinged me for not directly answering Datisi asking his alignment. Then there was the overly self conscious "in before scumslip" post after the weird but admittedly relatable string of posts about not remembering how to play. The "did we roll t/t" post pinged again. Just feels like unnecessarily saying "I'm town".

Just to be clear, this is Sleepless' full case on Iconeum.

I went back through Sleepless' iso to see if he pushed on Ico, as he claimed, and the extent of it is asking a couple people what their read on Ico is, and then appealing -- to no one in particular -- something to the effect of "can we just yeet Ico now."

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

There's malarkey here. He may even be partners with a hypothetical Ico-scum. I don't buy his vote/unvote on Gamma when that was getting steam, and I can't tell you a single place he is seriously pushing outside of that.

If I can't get Dunn today, I think this is a good bet.

This is also hilarious

[Fun and Games]

And FWIW, there are exactly 28 instances of "ico" on SA's ISO.

Yes, but I implore everyone to go read his ISO and see how many of those are of substance or pointing out things with scum motivation.

[Fun and Games]

mmmm? what case?

General case is that SA put a vote down on Ico initially with somewhat flimsy reasoning, then never really moved it for a full 50 pages.

He wasn't pressing Ico with questions, or actively trying to persuade others to see what he was seeing in Ico. He would merely make an occasional request to other players for their opinions on Ico, in an open ended way, with little follow up.

The one time he did depart from this Ico vote was to vote Gamma as that wagon gained a little steam, but then 12 hours later, SA unvotes Gamma and says he didn't really find him scummy. It was back to Ico at that point.

When I pressed SA about this and asked him to quickly tell me his reasons for voting Ico, he repeatedly told me to "read his iso", which I argue is a sign that SA knows his reasoning was flimsy and he never really believed in his vote or thought it through. If you're voting someone that long, you should be able to rattle off your reasons quickly.

Now, contrast this vote camping from SA with his most recent town games (which admittedly are a couple years old). SA in those games votes 4+ people in D1 scenarios.

Am I being unreasonable here? I think not. I believe SA is scum, and potentially may be buddies with Ico!scum.

bzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Fun and Games]

I like how you can't address the substance of what I'm posting and can only hand-wave it as "spamming"

[Fun and Games]

I mean what do u think he's gonna do as either alignment, ignore you?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

bzzz is the sound of your chainsaw dude

[Fun and Games]

I already gave you a chance to address why you pushed back on A50 vote flipping from Gamma -> Ico at EOD

Your explanation was pretty awful.

[Fun and Games]

bingle is town

therefore a50 is also town

fuck i'm good at this game

this is the last thing datisi says about a50 in his iso

where do you get the similar feelings thing?

also that's not even an excuse

[Fun and Games]

I dont have anything to add r.e. any thought process, we didnt discuss it and it wasnt a conscious decision on my part

He said that, i started posting shortly thereafter, and he didnt post again until now. If u want more of an explanation itll have to come from him, i dont have one

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

cuz we're 1 day from mylo and she's better than me at it

I'd like to hear your thoughts. You were a primary pusher on Gamma from D1. I want to know what the reevaluation is.

Pooky never answers this. He just dips from the thread entirely and skitter takes over.

Again, not necessarily scummy, but I'm also not being unreasonable trying to understand where Pooky's head is at, especially when they're saying they each have their own reads.

I already answered this.

I wanted to kill you, she didn't feel the same way, so I decided to let her do her thing while I mostly read along and twiddled my thumbs.

[Fun and Games]

So Pooky, if I'm understanding correctly, you came into today wanting to go both barrels on me, but skitter wasn't sure, and so you agreed to not post as much then because your reads were out of alignment?

Is that what happened?

I tend to be more tunnelly and rarely change my mind unless something dramatic happens that resets my world view.

She has a more holistic approach where she likes to poke and things and figure things out.

I'm not going to shout over her because she's better at catching scum than I am and she's very nice.

we literally just had this conversation like 10 minutes ago what r u even acting confused about

[Fun and Games]

bingle is town

therefore a50 is also town

fuck i'm good at this game

this is the last thing datisi says about a50 in his iso

where do you get the similar feelings thing?

also that's not even an excuse

Literally the next post from Datisi after the post of mine you're questioning is him saying he's unsure about A50.

Okay, yeah A50 is lock town.

please say sike

that's not datisi expressing suspicion of a50

thats datisi laughing at bingle townreading a50 for dumbtelling

[Fun and Games]

your post is scummy because you are pushing back on A50 for vote flipping Gamma - > Darby.


Datisi does not push back on A50

in fact no one pushes back on A50 vote-flipping from Gamma -> Darby except for you

[Fun and Games]

Gamma flipping town meant that EOD1 wagons were T/S and not S/S - I remembered Gamma was very close to dying near end of D1 so I'm looking for who was trying to kill him then to save Darby.


this is the penultimate VC:



Dwlee votes Gamma ~25 minutes later making it 6-3.

A50 is the one who changes momentum by flipping his vote from Gamma -> Darby making it 5-4. 1861

This is probably the single most important part of D1.

You push back on A50 with 1867 berating him for vote-flipping but not providing any reasons.

Reading all the posts in the pages since A50's vote-flip, your post is the only pushback he gets for vote flipping.

Which makes sense in the context of scum!you seeing your mis-elim starting to walk out the door.

[Fun and Games]

I read that post as datisi saying he didn't think A50 was locktown at that moment.

thinking someone isn't locktown isn't the same thing as shading someone

[Fun and Games]

Fwiw i dont think scum bingle kills a50

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

given how much you defended Ico/Darby throughout Day 1, I really doubt a voteflip to bussing Ico/Darby would work out for you at the eleventh hour

[Fun and Games]

Wait, why was Dwlee self voting?

he replaced NM

[Fun and Games]

Not_Mafia would be receiving his third prod this day phase right about now. Instead, he's getting replaced.

The most just outcome!

I've never played a game with a mod I loved more

this is actually p funny if you're scum with NM hehehe

[Fun and Games]

which kind of makes sense imo because if skitter's push on dwlee was on a townie I think you just sheep her and let her kill dwlee for you

but since dwlee is mafia you are going to chainsaw us

[Fun and Games]

Mostly think it can't be all the scum because I'm not that good.

fair enough

what makes you put iconeum in there?

Same reason for all of them. Lack of free flowing response to the game. More reactionary than active engagement. Ico is a tougher case because he has been busy and gone it seems

making excuses for Ico despite having him inside POE.

[Fun and Games]

Dats -- you still want to lim the Ico slot now that it's being replaced?

tries to use replacement as if it somehow washes away the sin

[Fun and Games]

I said "RVS-level" vote. I understand it wasn't a true RVS in the sense that it was a joke. You made what appeared to be a serious vote. But it was also on like page 6 of the game right when RVS was sort of finishing. The fact you hadn't moved your vote from that point strikes me as somewhat scummy regardless of Ico's alignment. Vote camping is much more likely to come from scum than from town, who are lacking knowledge on whether their votes are correct.

chainsawing SA and saying SA is scummy even IF ico flips red

[Fun and Games]

how sure are you on dunn being scum?

70%?

I'm interested in hearing from you if you think his play differs here from when he was scum with you on D1. Just feel like I've tried to give him opportunities to engage with me in a real way, and he's trying to end those as fast as possible to return to lurking. It's major bad vibes for me.

I feel better about yeeting there than most anywhere else. Sleepless has given me some bad vibes as well. I maybe feel like giving Gamma a pass for today because I can't say I have a great track record reading him.

I guess if my vote is needed on the Ico wagon to finish it, I'm not opposed, but it feels slightly too popular for ambiguous reasons to me.

weird as fuck soft defense of Ico-slot while pushing Dunn for weird reasons

[Fun and Games]

Um? That quote came when I unvoted. So you have timing mixed up pretty badly. You seem think it was:
Townread Gamma --> Vote Gamma for a counterwagon to Dunn
It was more like:
Weak read on Gamma -> Vote Gamma for counterwagon -> Realize my reasons for voting him didn't actually make him scum -> unvote and say I'm not really scumreading him anymore.

dawg, these posts are 12 hours apart.

That's a lot of thought development over a short period of time.

chainsaw continued

[Fun and Games]

I spent, what did you say 28 pages?, trying for Iconeum and was getting nothing. A Gamma wagon seemed more productive than continuing to waste my breath on what was turning out more and more to be a vanity Vote.

I mean, first, IDK if I'd call your play here "trying" to get an ICO yeet. I'll go back at somepoint and read your ISO to see how hard you were pushing, but it doesn't stand out in my mind as a concentrated push. As far as Gamma, again, we are talking about 12 hours you had your vote there. That's not exactly trying something new before going back to the same wagon you were on before.

Then you're massively underestimating my confidence in the read.

How confident are you that the Ico slot is scum? Give me a percent.

Iconeum pinged me for not directly answering Datisi asking his alignment. Then there was the overly self conscious "in before scumslip" post after the weird but admittedly relatable string of posts about not remembering how to play. The "did we roll t/t" post pinged again. Just feels like unnecessarily saying "I'm town".

Just to be clear, this is Sleepless' full case on Iconeum.

I went back through Sleepless' iso to see if he pushed on Ico, as he claimed, and the extent of it is asking a couple people what their read on Ico is, and then appealing -- to no one in particular -- something to the effect of "can we just yeet Ico now."

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sleepless Assassin

There's malarkey here. He may even be partners with a hypothetical Ico-scum. I don't buy his vote/unvote on Gamma when that was getting steam, and I can't tell you a single place he is seriously pushing outside of that.

If I can't get Dunn today, I think this is a good bet.

this is like the definition of a chainsaw defense

[Fun and Games]

his is Sleepless' full case on Iconeum.

I'm legitimately surprised. I didn't know that

Feel free to elaborate if I'm missing something. What is your case on Ico/DArby?

What is your case on Ico/DArby?

To clarify, SA, I have read your ISO.

vp he's been scumreading ico since like his second post

~ skitter

First post actually.

vp is your issue that you don't think sa has sufficiently explained his reasonign?

~ skitter

That is what I'm stating at the moment. I also think he is blowing smoke about his Gamma vote.

If he is that confident in an Ico scumread, it seems like he should be able to tell me a bullet point case of why instead of telling me to read his iso.

And FWIW, there are exactly 28 instances of "ico" on SA's ISO.

Yes, but I implore everyone to go read his ISO and see how many of those are of substance or pointing out things with scum motivation.

So it changed? A minute ago your issue was that I haven't been pushing Iconeum

How are those different my guy? You did not push Ico. Which seems to be why you can't explain your case quickly.

Because it is not a real scum read.

Yes, but I implore everyone to go read his ISO and see how many of those are of substance or pointing out things with scum motivation.

I did. It's the one you quoted and the one I quoted.

Doesn't it seem odd to you to hang on to a scum read for 50 pages with no change based upon that?

I mean he does have other reads, i guess i'm just not convinced that the fact that he didnt reallh expound on the ico read makes him scum

Pedit ugh i think this is a tvt >.>
~ skitter

I've been pointing things out as they come up. His burst style posting made it rare, but my points are ones I truly believe in.

Lemme ask you this, who do you think has been pushing Ico more, you or Datisi?

His burst style posting made it rare, but my points are ones I truly believe in.

Why would Ico's posting style affect your ability to push him?

In both Micro 880 and Open 740, SA was town and quite liberally cast his vote around early in the game.

really long chainsaw defense of Ico by going after SA

he just keeps going and going

which is p weird cuz Ico is inside VP's POE at the beginning and he presents literally no reason to townread Ico.

[Fun and Games]

Mostly think it can't be all the scum because I'm not that good.

fair enough

what makes you put iconeum in there?

Same reason for all of them. Lack of free flowing response to the game. More reactionary than active engagement. Ico is a tougher case because he has been busy and gone it seems

making excuses for Ico despite having him inside POE.

This is some serious bad faith.

Someone said ICO was busy with real life. Why would I not take that into account when what was pinging for me was lack of engagement?

sure you can make the excuse ico is busy irl but that's not a reason to townread him.

you saying "these 4 people are susp because of ___ but Ico is townier than the rest cuz he might be IRL busy is just terrible"

[Fun and Games]

You literally don't present any reasons to townread Ico but you are very invested in making Datisi re-evaluate on the slot and you are very invested in pushing people who are not Ico.

That's not me being bad faith that's literally what you did.

[Fun and Games]

mmmm? what case?

General case is that SA put a vote down on Ico initially with somewhat flimsy reasoning, then never really moved it for a full 50 pages.

He wasn't pressing Ico with questions, or actively trying to persuade others to see what he was seeing in Ico. He would merely make an occasional request to other players for their opinions on Ico, in an open ended way, with little follow up.

The one time he did depart from this Ico vote was to vote Gamma as that wagon gained a little steam, but then 12 hours later, SA unvotes Gamma and says he didn't really find him scummy. It was back to Ico at that point.

When I pressed SA about this and asked him to quickly tell me his reasons for voting Ico, he repeatedly told me to "read his iso", which I argue is a sign that SA knows his reasoning was flimsy and he never really believed in his vote or thought it through. If you're voting someone that long, you should be able to rattle off your reasons quickly.

Now, contrast this vote camping from SA with his most recent town games (which admittedly are a couple years old). SA in those games votes 4+ people in D1 scenarios.

Am I being unreasonable here? I think not. I believe SA is scum, and potentially may be buddies with Ico!scum.

This is you chainsawing SA.

It's a terrible chainsaw because you think he might be buddies with Ico!scum (which leaves you an opening to re-eval on Ico when SA flips town)

BUT YOU NEVER VOTED FOR ICO LOL.

Like it makes NO sense to me for you to hard shove SA for pushing Ico!scum and getting mad no1 is listening to your SA!case when Ico is like sitting there and a viable elim.

How do you believe Ico!scum is being pushed by SA!scum but you are happy to vote for Dunnstral or Gamma?

[Fun and Games]

sure you can make the excuse ico is busy irl but that's not a reason to townread him.

Show me the post where I used the words Ico is town.

you are very careful not to do this

you just conveniently make the cleverest excuses to push for people to die that would allow him to live!

I'll be honest I wouldn't suspect you as much if you actually townread Ico rather than trying to sneakily get him to live by murdering people that are not him!

[Fun and Games]

You literally don't present any reasons to townread Ico but you are very invested in making Datisi re-evaluate on the slot and you are very invested in pushing people who are not Ico.

That's not me being bad faith that's literally what you did.

I never said Ico was town! I said I thought the wagon was not well explained. Those are not the same thing. Ico was very null for me

a chainsaw defense involves killing people who are not the person you are defending - preferably people pushing the person you are defending.

It has nothing to do with townreading the person you are defending

[Fun and Games]

How do you believe Ico!scum is being pushed by SA!scum but you are happy to vote for Dunnstral or Gamma?

Because after SA and I fought, I felt I was wrong about him. Like, that is VERY clear in context D1. You're cherry picking a midday fight and acting like that was how I still felt at the end of the day. It's simply not true.

oh so you thought SA was town but you still refused to vote for Ico/Darby?

LOL even worse!

[Fun and Games]

This is the post you made that Datisi questioned you about:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace. Sleeper scum in the actives.

You tried to kill Dunn/Gamma but you never tried to kill Ico

When questioned this is your response:

Mostly think it can't be all the scum because I'm not that good.

fair enough

what makes you put iconeum in there?

Same reason for all of them. Lack of free flowing response to the game. More reactionary than active engagement. Ico is a tougher case because he has been busy and gone it seems

Your response is basically saying to Datisi, I want to kill inactos, I think they're more likely to be scum, oh but I don't want to kill Ico cuz "IRL".

That's not a "Townread" That's a I'm trying to kill inacto LHFs except that one over there read.

Which I expressed as a townread because I don't know the proper terminology for when a scumbag says "I want to kill inactives except for my partner over there"

[Fun and Games]

You literally don't present any reasons to townread Ico

this literally says you don't present any reasons to townread him...

so it makes no sense for you to avoid voting him and pushing for people who are not him to die....

that's not saying you townread him

[Fun and Games]

the fact that you can't really answer for the way you defended Ico d1 and all you can do is throw up random gibberish semantic nitpicking is pretty hilarious.

[Fun and Games]

Like you said SA!scum was pushing Ico!scum so you wanted to kill SA who nobody really supported you on instead of Ico who there definitely was support on.

After you realized SA is town, you still didn't vote for Ico, you instead wanted to kill Dunnstral? Gamma? like it's just comical how much you bent to defend the dude.

[Fun and Games]

Seriously your entire ISO is you trying to push anywhere but Ico/Darby

Trying to get Datisi to lay off because the slot is getting replaced(lol)

Giving A50 shit for moving his vote from Gamma -> Darby at the last minute(lol)

Chainsawing SA with dozens of posts about how SA!scum is trying to bus Ico!Scum(lol)

Then changing your mind on SA but still not voting Ico!scum.

[Fun and Games]

Am I being unreasonable here? I think not. I believe SA is scum, and potentially may be buddies with Ico!scum.

so null

[Fun and Games]

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

very null

[Fun and Games]

like you tried to distance off Ico by putting him in your box of 4 people who you think scum are most likely in or w/e but he's the one person in that box you don't want to touch cuz "IRL" reasons but you won't call that a townread or w/e just him magically floating above your POE box LOLOL.

then you tried to hardpush Dunn..

then you tried to chainsaw SA who was pushing Ico with some ridiculous reasoning that involved Ico being scum with SA!?!?!?

then you tried to kill Dunn again..

then you tried to kill Gamma...

[Fun and Games]

Quoting the same post and acting like you're saying something new, so townie

just refreshing your memory because you seem to forgot where you put Ico on your readlist winkyface

[Fun and Games]

I guess if my vote is needed on the Ico wagon to finish it, I'm not opposed, but it feels slightly too popular for ambiguous reasons to me.

Textbook soft-defense of Ico by shading his wagon as "too popular" rofl

[Fun and Games]

But let's remember pooky was lurking until I voted him. Now suddenly he can't stop talking LOL

I already explained this part.

[Fun and Games]

But yeah, keep quoting a post from page 20 and acting like I felt exactly the same on page 83 after Ico had replaced out. Totally a good faith point.

How does him replacing out make him go from suspicious to null?

[Fun and Games]

baltar/sleepless/iconeum scumteam

where do i pick up my paragon scummy

Quality posting

rofl did you shoot datisi for this

[Fun and Games]

As far as this chainsaw stuff, you're just posting things you already said and acting like you're making new points. I found SA scummy, we tussled and I ended up townreading him out of it. So complete bullshit to call it chainsawing for Ico. His camped vote for 50 pages looked sketchy.

wait a second when did you flip to a townread on SA

i'm not seeing it in your iso

[Fun and Games]

More intellectual dishonesty! I didn't say the replacement changed my read. I said 63 pages later and a completely different player in the slot and you're stating I couldn't possibly go from twinge of scumminess to a null read.

More top shelf intellectual honesty!

you literally said you had ico null

not that his replacement changed your mind into nullreading him lol

[Fun and Games]

Lol I should stop drinking. My zingers are coming in doubles now

I kinda feel bad for you if your teammates really were NM/Iconeum rofl

[Fun and Games]

that shit would drive a man to drinking lol

[Fun and Games]

it's ok next time we fight I hope you have better teammates buddy

love you long time

[Fun and Games]

it's ok next time we fight I hope you have better teammates buddy

love you long time

If we are both town here, I'm going to be annoyed because this was how you tunneled me wrong in Hidden Temple.

Well that's why I was fine deferring to skitter about you but she finally gave me the green light today so it's not just me who thinks you are a baddie!

[Fun and Games]

I'm lazy af I dunno what you're talking about

have a good night dude

[Fun and Games]

I can say, I have no doubt in my mind skitter/pooky are town, and am pretty confident VP is scum, so if we just wanna flip VP and move on, I’m down

what changed on us

Enchant, you just ignore the last 10 pages and vote dwlee? have no comment on skitter/pooky,VP?

I did read and got everything i need.

Dwlee99 mafia.

how did you get to dwlee is mafia? can you perhaps quote a post or two that led you to this conclusion?

~skitter

[Fun and Games]

So yeah, Vote VP and move on to next day folks. Toog is likely partner, I agree there, toog has been crazy silent on VP stuff

- toog's been crazy silent on like everything
- i don't beleive anybody is pushing toog as the partner

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Of those PoE, I lean dwlee as more than likely town.

why
and what do you think of the us/vp argument?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I'm actually quite glad pooky and I went at it because it gave me a better feeling about him in some respects. At least there is something I can work with there to make an evaluation.

>.>

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i don't think sa is like ~not interacting~ with people on purpose, i think he was just posting when other people weren't around

rn i'm leaning towards a vp/dwlee solve

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i feel fairly satisfied with a vp vote rn

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

one of the larger reasons being, I tend to clash with town more than scum, like when I was calling VP scum a few pages back, and tunneling for about 0 reason, kinda felt like a towny response to me, idk, again I haven't read much of anything from VP, but the clash kinda had me thinking, I end up in a lot of TvT arguments, and scum doesn't tend to fight me too hard, idk, just an idea, I don't have a whole lot of time at the moment!!

VP loves to fight tho! He does as both alignments so it's not really AI imo.

[Fun and Games]

I saw a thing that might be a scumslip and I want everyone who didn't hypoclaim yesterday to do so immediately.

are you going anywhere with this, btw?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

ah i must have missed that
if there is a cop they ought to out, no?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

lol thanks for bringing this up

you attacking sa as a dunn partner who is defending dunn by pushing elsewhere and then attacking sa as an ico partner because sa is "bussing ico" actually makes your chainsaw look even worse.

[Fun and Games]

I don't like that Ico slacked off on the thread as soon as Datisi had a day off.

Me calling out Ico lurking at a not great time for him.

do you think i should be townreading you, vp?

You can have whatever read you want on me. I think it is illogical to put me in a scumpile with dunn/Gamma.

Those theories of the game are in direct conflict with each other. Or at least they would appear to be if i was in your shoes.

Seems a bit contrived.

So Fun and Games is equally bad with their readslist because they have me as scum *with* Dunn, whom I want yeeted today?

I haven't looked for associatives between you and Dunn yet. I will say that F&G hasn't struck me as super suspicious to this point. I saw you were making some kind of case against them in the last few pages. I'll give that a careful look when I do a detailed catchup post in a few hours.

Ico trying to undermine my wagon with a lame attack on F&G

do you think i should be townreading you, vp?

You can have whatever read you want on me. I think it is illogical to put me in a scumpile with dunn/Gamma.

Those theories of the game are in direct conflict with each other. Or at least they would appear to be if i was in your shoes.

Seems a bit contrived.

Me being the first person to call out Ico's scum reads list as questionable.

it's a very shallow and general binning of like 4? players?

When Ico tries to defend said scum list, I throw his own words back at him.

Opens game after day and a half gone:

Scummy
Dunn
GE
VP
Fun and Games

Oh well this should be entertaining.

It'll take me a minute to catch up this morning because I have some work to finish, but I can't wait to see how me and my scum reads are teammates.

Me being snarky at the original reads list (sorry shit is out of order, I was scrolling backward through my ISO)
---------------
Again, I think pooky was being very selective in look at my posts to come to a pre-determined solution last night (which he would do as town or scum). I'm not saying I was on the right wagon D1 -- I certainly was not -- but I don't see how you could look at my ISO and say I'm carrying water for ICO or even more ridiculously, that I town read that slot.

I'm not even scanning my ISO thorougly, I'm just picking from a single spot near where the SA stuff was and I'm scrolling backward. There's no lack of stuff here that contradicts the characterization Pooky put forward.

Bingle, did you actually look at the context of what Pooky was talking about or only at my responses from last night's fight before you voted me?

funny how you shade ico but coveniently dont vote for ico and push people who are not named ico to die.

[Fun and Games]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

[Fun and Games]

that actually makes me scumread you more dude - you have reasons to scumread ico but you dont push for him to die, you just coveniently push everyone else lol.

if you had actually a townread on ico that looked reasonable it wouldn't look as bad for you to be chainsaw defending him.

[Fun and Games]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

yes. do you not question your null reads and press them though?

you r trying to make it sound like you suspect him and you called him out etc but you also claim he was null for you.

this is a contradiction.

[Fun and Games]

is he null or did you think he was a suspect

make up your mind dude lol

[Fun and Games]

yea you wanted to shade him but keep him nice and comfy at null so you could say you were against him but not really

[Fun and Games]

savage

[Fun and Games]

lol @ baltar/dlee openwolfing

[Fun and Games]

yea im sure u think im bussing baltar but you vote for enchant

that makes so much sense

dlee got jokes this game

[Fun and Games]

the funnies keep coming

[Fun and Games]

rofl

[Fun and Games]

im fine with killing either vp or dlee today

[Fun and Games]

dlee got jokes today

[Fun and Games]

i said you're scum cuz you voted for enchant while saying you thought fg was bussing vp and that makes no sense lol

[Fun and Games]

so what?

do town never make atrocious posts?

did it change your view of who is scum?

your progression is a joke lol

[Fun and Games]

like you seem to think vp is scum but when you see him vote enchant for complete garbage reasons you r happy to jump on the enchant wagon on the elim b4 mylo?

like lol thats fucking awful

esp for enchant making "atrocious posts"

when enchant has a history of making shitty posts as town.

[Fun and Games]

And even if it didn't make sense, when has that EVER been a scum tell. I literally just got MathBlade limmed in ELO to win by being all "haha you made no sense scum XD"

thats mathblade

he has a habit of not writing all his thoughts down and being easy to mis elim cuz of that

you are not mathblade :3

[Fun and Games]

thats mathblade

you are you

you dont get to say "this random dude did shit that made no sense as town so now i get to do shit that doesnt make sense too!!!!"

[Fun and Games]

this conversation is a waste of time

you r scum goodbye

[Fun and Games]

He pulls me/VP out his ass and then acts like his reasoning is cause I scumread enchant a whole day after he expressed the read

?

I said I thought you/VP Baltar was scum before you voted for enchant on shitty reasoning

you voting for enchant on shitty reasoning just makes me scumread you even more lol

[Fun and Games]

you know I can have more than 1 reason for thinking you're a scumbag right?

I don't need to repeat every reason why you're scum every post.

You acting like I do is pretty lulz

[Fun and Games]

Just look at Pooky's progression on me

yes

my progression on dwlee is so bad

it consists of me calling him a scumbag

and continuing to call him a scumbag

yes

it is truly terrible

Dlee got funny jokes today

[Fun and Games]

Pooky: "D-lee is a scumbag, I have video evidence of him shooting up a grocery store last night"

D-Lee walks into a bank and shoots up the bank, steals millions of dollars, laughs on his way out.

Pooky: "Look! D-Lee just robbed that bank and killed lots of people! He is definitely bad!"

D-Lee: "HAHA ! POOKY IS SCUM LOOK HE CHANGED HIS REASONING!! PROGRESSION BAD"

[Fun and Games]

why do you trust toogeloo's read on enchant?

[Fun and Games]

skitter is afk fri/saturday for religious reasons

I am not going to continue shitfighting with vp/dwlee because their strategy is to spam the thread full of garbage shitposts and hope town is too tired of it to actually read the argument

i have already made my case for vp baltar being scum and anyone interested in it can read it.

[Fun and Games]

Fun and Games - null to townish. Still think Pooky is making very opportunistic points and bad faith arguments, but he's sort of being the same asshat he was in Hidden Temple. I still don't like him lurking until I called him out and voted, but after much prying, I find the explanation believable enough.

hi what do u think of my head

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Rl. This week has been a little hectic and I spent half yesterday throwing up.

i hope you're feeling better!

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Dwlee99 - very hard to read since Not Mafia posted like himself, and Dwlee is low efforting as well. Null to scumish.

how would u feel abt wagoning dwlee?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

im fine with killing either vp or dlee today

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

happy to hear that

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

dwlee's posting from today is p bad

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Pooky/Skitts are pushing VP and Dwlee.

basically for vp:
- never ended up on the ico wagon
- tried to divert multiple times away from the ico wagon (made a dunn push, made a sa push that he's now negating the importance of, shaded a50 for moving wagon momentum from gamma to darby)
- his initial push on us this phase was gross, and was basically shade without explaining why any of what he was actually calling us out for was scum indicative
- now he's trying to largely shade/ignore pooky's points

dwlee isn't like a team read or anything but i tr them the least and their posting today is p bad

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

idk what do mean by come back to?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

@skitter/pooky
I really wanna know what yall think of Bingle, I'm suddenly like super suspicious... cause this "list of possibilities" makes absolutely no sense from a town perspective

i think it's fine/nai

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Damn, I wish skitts/SA were here to answer questions, that would make this way easier.

i'm around now, if that wasn't obvious

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

It's the way ico and darby handled Enchant.

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I'm not sure how else to tell you that the associatives between both parts of the flipped scum fell like they indicate Enchant as a partner than an adversary.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

dont' think their reasons for scumreading pooky are in good faith

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i'm gonna be honest i skimmed over a lot of it

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

uh maybe? not really sure what you mean lol

and i'll take another look

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

can you just like quote from where you think the dwlee interactions are interesting?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

at least in part to see if you'd actually vote there

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

i'm not sure i see this tbh, they're townreading andante p hard, i don't really see them assuming scum-andante anywhere
in fact it looks to me like if dwlee is scum they're trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

If you're town, that seems like an understandable analysis. I know it's incorrect, but I guess I can see where you'd be suspicious. Still think you could have answered my question at the start of the day instead of ghosting me or being obtuse about it.

In response to the point you're making, I don't think it'd be a wise play for me as scum there to make a stink about A50 ditching, especially since he is semi-erratic as a player. Seems like a play that is unlikely to get him to flip back to Gamma and the safer play would have been to just shut up or join the flop to a bus in a VP!scum world.

for me i'ts calling out a50 + trying to herd people back to the gamma wagon (1979, for example)
yes, it's possible that you just had a bad read, but since darby was scum and you were trying to push the cw, it looks p suspicious to me

i don't really care so much abt the chainsaw-ing bit, and i'm not sure i give that super much weight

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

That looks very much like not buddying. Like, if dw is trying to earn cred with andante saying she’s clowning is a really strange way to about it. Also like 60% of the thread hasn’t even weighed in on the back and forth, so I think saying andante is necessary for a mislim in you is a bit of a reach.

any wagon needs 5 votes, we're presumably not voting that, and i kinda doubt that you are, toog is very stuck on enchant
andante would be a p critical vote there

i'm reading that interaction as trying to wave away andante's feelings around us while emphasitizing they think she's town to try to direct her to better wagons from dwlee's pov

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

To try to explain this it feels like saying

“Gamma had a .45 and the bullet fired was from a .45”
“Nah can’t be, gamma was at the bar all night. Enchant has a .45 though”
“Nah can’t be, Gamma was at the bar all night”

ah ig i see what you're saying
idk it made sense to me at the time

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

the reasoning vp baltar gave for why he pushed back on a50 moving his vote from gamma -> darby was because he thought A50 was scum WITH gamma and decided to CHANGE HIS MIND on bussing gamma.

that is just nonsensical to me

why would a scum player plant a bus-vote on another scum player, then get off right as the bus is at e-1 to jump onto a different wagon?

the associatives r shitty

you put your teammate in danger of being elimmed

and you lose your bus seat!!!

[Fun and Games]

it doesnt make any sense for dwlee to claim that he thinks fg is bussing vp baltar but refuse to vote for vp baltar and help vp baltar vote for enchant.

also vp baltar has refused to vote for dwleee and doesnt present any reason to townread dwlee. very similar to the way vp baltar treated the ico/darby slot.

[Fun and Games]

fair enuf @jingle, but even so:

5 votes are needed, we're not voting for ourselves, toog is set on enchant, and enchant is kinda doing his own thing
andante's vote is p critical

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

if you look at vp baltars iso. his votes d1 for gamma, sa, and dunnstral all lasted multiple days and included strong pushes/persuasion to try to convince others to vote for that player.

on the contrary the vote for darby lasts less than a day and does not really include pushing, darby just talks to him and he switches back to dunnstral

it doesnt feel like he actually wants to kill darby

[Fun and Games]

You're also still ignoring that I can like be unsure of myself at different points? and have different reads as time passes?

the progression has to make sense for me

i dont see how you got from fg is bussing vp -> enchant is scum

[Fun and Games]

However, like I've already stated, it's a pretty silly accusation when 1)I am a decent player as scum and would rarely be so obvious 2) there would have been little material value for me to try hard to save Darby at E-1. (Sorry darby) he was not some strong player I would have felt attached to, and I haven't been afraid to bus as scum historically when necessary.

too scummy to be scum is a shitty defense.

also gamma-darby was at 6-3. gamma was almost dead when a50 voteflipped.

you werent trying to save darby when darby was at e-1. you were trying to push your mis elim over the finish line because you were so close but the tide started to turn against you.

[Fun and Games]

i ignored your question because its too stupid to answer and i thought you were making a joke.

[Fun and Games]

And THEN pooky jumps down my throat in reaction. Ignores 2639, ignores all of my posts suggesting it could be a bus, and only when I vote Enchant it's how I'm openwolfing and scum and blablabla chainsawing for enchant super hard

rofl

i said vp baltar and dwlee were scum BEFORE you two ever voted for enchant so this is a pretty funny chainsaw defense accusation.

[Fun and Games]

am i now a time traveling bear lolol

[Fun and Games]

if you thought i was bussing vp why wouldnt you just vote out vp?

why instead vote for enchant?

[Fun and Games]

@vp baltar

do you have a reason to townread dwlee?

@dwlee

do you have a reason to townread vp baltar?

[Fun and Games]

However, like I've already stated, it's a pretty silly accusation when 1)I am a decent player as scum and would rarely be so obvious 2) there would have been little material value for me to try hard to save Darby at E-1. (Sorry darby) he was not some strong player I would have felt attached to, and I haven't been afraid to bus as scum historically when necessary.

Obviously, I can understand if your position is still VP!scum, but I think it'd be a pretty big fuck up play by me there and it's assuming pretty low level play on my part.

Also, why would I want kills of datisi (who was fairly friendly with me EOD1,) and A50...the very person you are saying I tried to coax into a miselim? If it was the conscious effort pooky is accusing, killing him right after the gamma kill wouldn't make a lot of sense.

a few things:
- idk if it was obvious
- how do you generally feel about bussing?
- i really dont' know why dats was killed
- i'm not arguing that you were trying to misflip a50, where are you getting that from?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Time has passed, and people have brought up good points, I don't have a solid TR on Dwlee, but I feel more confident about Dwlee flipping town than I do VP flipping town

@bingle it's working ...

~ skitte

[Fun and Games]

is my treatment of dwlee the only thing in your read of them?

[Fun and Games]

like did you not try to read dwlee at all?

[Fun and Games]

i am asking you if you have a good reason to TOWNREAD THEM

[Fun and Games]

I AM ASKING YOU A SIMPLE FUCKING YES OR NO QUESTION YOU SLIMEBALL

I NEVER SAID YOU HAD A TOWNREAD ON DWLEEE

I ASKED YOU DO YOU HAVE A GOOD REASON TO TOWNREAD DWLEE

THATS YES OR NO

JUST FUCKING GIVE ME YOUR REASON TO TOWNREAD THEM OR JUST SAY NO YOU DONT HAVE ONE

[Fun and Games]

Uhhh Pooky, I think Dwlee might be town, it felt like genuine frustration from Dwlee with me earlier

do you really think scum cant be fustrated

[Fun and Games]

have you never played with scum that can effort?

[Fun and Games]

I AM ASKING YOU A SIMPLE FUCKING YES OR NO QUESTION YOU SLIMEBALL

Lol well if I stated my read on the slot is null to possible scum, you do the fucking math.

Can you state your bullet case now or you going to keep yelling about townreads?

so vote for dwlee then

[Fun and Games]

ig vp what pooky is thinking (and what i think too) is that you don't have any reasons to townread dwlee, but you're at the same time reluctant to vote there, and it looks partner-y to me

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I hate all the yelling!!! lets just all be friends.... plz

^

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

- i'm not arguing that you were trying to misflip a50, where are you getting that from?

I'm saying that if the questioning a50 about his ditch od the gamma wagon is nearly as crucial of an element to scum!VP's D1 game, then it doesn't make a lot of sense for me to want to kill him N2 right after a Gamma flip, since that'd be putting these cards directly on the table.

i don't think these 2 thinsg are related to each other at all, the fact that you pushed a50 doesn't preclude yuou from killing him ...?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

its literally the same way you treated ico

you put him null. you shade him as scummy

you find excuses to not vote him

you push people that r not him to die

you end up voting lhf together

[Fun and Games]

ig vp what pooky is thinking (and what i think too) is that you don't have any reasons to townread dwlee, but you're at the same time reluctant to vote there, and it looks partner-y to me

~ skitter

Can you just tell me why I should vote him?

From my perspective, I'm just being badgered to vote a slot for ~handwaving~ by a slot I'm not certain is town. How then hell are you making associatives on a slot that hasn't flipped?

I'm not being unreasonable just asking for your thought process on dwlee.

They're the only person i feel like i yave no reason to townread, and their scumread on us is laughably bad, and given that you're not townreading them either i'm not sure ehy you're reluctant

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

As scum you absolutely think about blowback and optics of a kill. At least I do.

Can u explain this again, i'm not following?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

As scum you absolutely think about blowback and optics of a kill. At least I do.

Can u explain this again, i'm not following?

~ skitter

Pookys argument is the that the a50 event was a crucial play by me where i was trying to hammer home a Gamma misyeet.

I'm saying that if I'm scum, me killing a50 and revealing his alignment to the town would be a suboptimal play if I was scum. It would invite blowback and criticism against me, when there were many other kills presumably that would not.

i guess in my mind, while the blowback on a50 isn't great if you're scum, it isn't really a factor i would take as scum when decidding to kill him, if that makes sense
and who else was scum-you going to kill anyways?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: dwlee

There ya go.

ty

~ skitter