Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: enchant
I think this is the best vote then

Based on?

We have a no kill and Ausuka jk’d Wallflower, Do you have an alternate explanation why no kill? I don’t think Wallflower was the nk target.

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: enchant
I think this is the best vote then

Based on?

We have a no kill and Ausuka jk’d Wallflower, Do you have an alternate explanation why no kill? I don’t think Wallflower was the nk target.

If you’re N3 vig we want to vote out the scum bulletproof
I feel like it’s Enchant, not Wallflower

There was a no kill, Enchant wasn’t jk’d, there’s 2 scum left ahd WF was jk’d, so what’s your explanation?

I only claimed the category not role but what does that have anything to do with Enchant being scum bp? If Enchant is scum, Roden’s voyeur wouldn’t have stopped him from killing.

[Harley Quinn]

if we're undecided between enchant/wallflower

its always better to vote out wallflower first

because if we're wrong and she's a VT

then the mafia nightkill me or ausuka, and the UB becomes a doctor/jk

if we vote out enchant and he's town bulletproof

then we get another town bulletproof and thats like literally useless

Did Implosion actually claim UB or just the category? but I see your point.

[Harley Quinn]

if we're undecided between enchant/wallflower

its always better to vote out wallflower first

because if we're wrong and she's a VT

then the mafia nightkill me or ausuka, and the UB becomes a doctor/jk

if we vote out enchant and he's town bulletproof

then we get another town bulletproof and thats like literally useless

also im quite annoyed that enchant decided to pick a useless role can you tell

Normally agree but Enchant flipping n3 venge is essentially gg for scums.

It’s not possible because I picked venge/n3 vig category.

[Harley Quinn]

if we're undecided between enchant/wallflower

its always better to vote out wallflower first

because if we're wrong and she's a VT

then the mafia nightkill me or ausuka, and the UB becomes a doctor/jk

if we vote out enchant and he's town bulletproof

then we get another town bulletproof and thats like literally useless

Also this feels incredibly spineless given everything you posted D1+2

I didn't know Wallflower was JK'd on Night 2 on D1/D2

I adapt based on things that happen.

I don’t understand why Gamma thinks this.

[Harley Quinn]

if we're undecided between enchant/wallflower

its always better to vote out wallflower first

because if we're wrong and she's a VT

then the mafia nightkill me or ausuka, and the UB becomes a doctor/jk

if we vote out enchant and he's town bulletproof

then we get another town bulletproof and thats like literally useless

Also this feels incredibly spineless given everything you posted D1+2

I didn't know Wallflower was JK'd on Night 2 on D1/D2

I adapt based on things that happen.

Why wouldn’t scum!enchant have shot Ausuka?

Don’t you think Ari was the most logical nk?

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: enchant
I think this is the best vote then

Based on?

We have a no kill and Ausuka jk’d Wallflower, Do you have an alternate explanation why no kill? I don’t think Wallflower was the nk target.

If you’re N3 vig we want to vote out the scum bulletproof
I feel like it’s Enchant, not Wallflower

There was a no kill, Enchant wasn’t jk’d, there’s 2 scum left ahd WF was jk’d, so what’s your explanation?

I only claimed the category not role but what does that have anything to do with Enchant being scum bp? If Enchant is scum, Roden’s voyeur wouldn’t have stopped him from killing.

I’m assuming you are as that’s how we win N3
If you’re vengeful it’s irrelevant whether we vote out scum!enchant or scum!WF first

If you think it makes the most logical sense that scum shot you and not Ausuka, Roden, me, whomever, then wouldn’t Wallflower be the logical choice? Why wouldn’t scum shoot you?

[Harley Quinn]

if we're undecided between enchant/wallflower

its always better to vote out wallflower first

because if we're wrong and she's a VT

then the mafia nightkill me or ausuka, and the UB becomes a doctor/jk

if we vote out enchant and he's town bulletproof

then we get another town bulletproof and thats like literally useless

Also this feels incredibly spineless given everything you posted D1+2

I didn't know Wallflower was JK'd on Night 2 on D1/D2

I adapt based on things that happen.

Why wouldn’t scum!enchant have shot Ausuka?

I expect scum to shoot the claimed doctor who is protecting the JK rather than the JK.

Right, which is why WF is probably guiltied.

[Harley Quinn]

Sorry, I thought that was Ari’s post.

[Harley Quinn]

That roll was @ Ari
I don’t believe WF shot at me but I still think she’s scum here

No, Ari is the most likely target.

HEM flipped goon.
If Enchant is scum, he’s still bp
WF claims vt. Any pr category missing because that’s an extremely unpowerful scum team if accurate.

[Harley Quinn]

Ari was raising holy hell about Enchant being scum especially D2 but now she thinks Enchant can be town? It’s weak conviction!

well I preferred to elim Enchant over Mathblade because I was 100% sure mathblade was town.

When the comparison is between Enchant and Wallflower who isn't very townie and also happens to have gotten JK'd at night, that's a different comparison.

It’s too bad people didn’t listen to us wrt to that.

[Harley Quinn]

That roll was @ Ari
I don’t believe WF shot at me but I still think she’s scum here

I understand Ari’s point and I think she was the most likely nk target, so I don’t see how WF isn’t guiltied by that. On d2 otoh, Math was not mech guiltied due to Enchant being bp, so if he’s town, we have no way of knowing if scum targeted him or me but thanks to Roden, we know Enchant could not have been targeted last night. And I don’t see why scum wouldn’t think she protects Ausuka over Roden or anyone else.

[Harley Quinn]

it's sort of "more logical" for scum to shoot Ari than Ausuka, but in reality it's a wifom 50/50. This is how any doc/jk setup works if they're both town - scum are forced to 50/50 shooting the doc vs the jailkeeper, while the jailkeeper 50/50s jailkeeping the doc or someone else.

This is not to say I think wallflower is a bad lim, though. I need to think more on that but probably not a bad lim.

Why would scum shoot Ausuka when it makes the most sense for Ari to doc Ausuka and therefore nk would fail?

[Harley Quinn]

Yeah, that. At a glance it certainly "feels" like scum should probably shoot Ari but in practice it's WIFOM.

Not really.

[Harley Quinn]

@Wallflower, do you still have a “pet scumread” on Implosion or has that changed?

[Harley Quinn]

I suppose I could see the logic of killing Ausuka if they thought Ari was a possible JK target. Could have been thought of as a way of shading Ari if Ausuka turns up dead and then people be like “wtf Ari”

Depending on who the scum are, I’m also weighing up how viable no-killing would be as a strategy.

From yesterday, scum would have known that there could be no ascetic cop

, which I think is by far the most dangerous role to scum. An approach of no-killing would essentially just make it nightless, because the existing roles are not all that useful if scum decide to just not kill. Gives town more elims though obv so I’m not sure if they would do that, but something to consider

Wait how could scum have possibly known this before Roden voyeured Enchant?

[Harley Quinn]

Yeah, that. At a glance it certainly "feels" like scum should probably shoot Ari but in practice it's WIFOM.

Not really.

…yes really??

If airstrip (I’m keeping this autocorrect because it’s gold) is really the obvious nk target, then she is also the obvious jk target for ausuka, who could stop an nk by protecting her… which in turn means scum should shoot ausuka, which in turn means ausuka should jailkeep elsewhere. It’s WIFOM.

On n1, she jk’d her top sr which was Math but scum are going to logically think, Ausuka is suddenly going to jk her top tr?

Occam’s razor: Is it possible scum targeted Ausuka - thinking she’d suddenly do the exact opposite of what she dud n1 and jk her top tr? Is it likely that Ari doesn’t do the same thing she did on n1 and protect her top tr? Sure, anything’s possible. Is it either probable or likely as opposed to possible that either Ausuka or Ari did the exact opposite n2 of what they did n1

or

that scum would logically believe this is likely?

No, not really.

You could actually make a decently convincing argument for this on n1, since we wouldn’t necessarily have a basis to assume it isn’t wifom but to seriously suggest that

A) it’s probable wifom that either Ausuka or Ari flipped the script from n2 to n1 and did the converse,

or

B) assume that a scumteam would logically assume this.


Nah.

[Harley Quinn]

And in fact, Ausuka stayed consistent with her n1 na by once again jk her top sr and although Ari hasn’t confirmed - I don’t recall - probably also stayed consistent with protecting her strongest tr, which in this case because of role, would logically be Ari.

And any even remotely savvy scumteam is extremely unlikely to totally ignore the facts of what either elected to do on n1 and therefore logically had no reason to assume that either one would deviate from this pattern.

[Harley Quinn]

*Ausuka*.

Ari’s strongest tr because role would obviously be Ausuka.

[Harley Quinn]

i doctored ausuka last night

i think ausuka should always have some probability to jk me so scum never have a clean shot there

Well what do you know @Wallflower and @Implosion, my theory was spot on and I bet scum thought so too.

[Harley Quinn]

On n1, she jk’d her top sr which was Math but scum are going to logically think, Ausuka is suddenly going to jk her top tr?

There is 0 reason to assume Ausuka would automatically behave the same n1 and n2. N1, no one had claimed. N2, multiple relevant power roles had claimed.

Besides, Harley, you may think this way, but there is no guarantee scum thinks about night actions the same way as you do. The fact that I think it's something scum could have considered, and Aristeia thinks Ausuka should sometimes JK her, means that it's entirely possible whoever scum is would think that way.

i doctored ausuka last night

i think ausuka should always have some probability to jk me so scum never have a clean shot there

Well what do you know @Wallflower and @Implosion, my theory was spot on and I bet scum thought so too.

I don't know why you're quoting this like it's a "i'm right and you're wrong" post. It doesn't contradict anything I've said. I never said Aristeia shouldn't doctor Ausuka. Aristeia definitely should have 100% doctored Ausuka last night. What I'm saying is that Ausuka should have had some probability of jailkeeping Aristeia, and as a result, it's possible that scum decided (incorrectly) to shoot Ausuka.

Because I don’t think we have scumteam who played against wncon and I find it extremely interesting that you’re trying as hard as you are seriously arguing that it’s more logical to flip a slot that is far more likely to be town than the slot that is extremely likely to be mech guiltied.

[Harley Quinn]

Also worth saying: given draft cop/watcher wasn't claimed, either scum got it, or scum got either it or some other role as a fakeclaim with their informed modifier.

Or no one picked it

I think that any reasonably intelligent scumteam is either going to pick draft cop or role cop, because based off claims, we have a massively stacked town and and extremely weak scumteam mechwise.

Town got jk, doc so no rb etc, so while possible, not terribly likely. Based off most people’s solve we have 2 goons and a scum bp as the team and I don’t see that as terribly likely.

[Harley Quinn]

we have one active vig in HQ[Gamma already shot]

there's no need for a voyeur to make sure HQ shoots someone because that someone will die and flip

Voyeur is like p useless, I see no reason not to park on Ausuka forever

Who did Gamma vig?

[Harley Quinn]

I am assuming Gamma vig'd Mathblade?

Oh right. yeah makes sense.

[Harley Quinn]

Enchant	BP
Ausuka	JK
Harley Quinn	N3 Vig/Venge
Bellaphant	tracker
Gamma Emerald	1-shot vig/PGO
implosion	UB/Rolecop
Wallflower	BP
Aristeia	Doctor
humaneatingmonkey	goon (could have picked anything)
Titus	n3 vig/Venge
Dwlee99	n3 vig
Roden	Voyeur
Save The Dragons	1-shot vig
MathBlade	vt

mmm if there's a fake claim it would have to be Voyeur or UB/Rolecop right? Am I reading this correctly?

I’m so glad you’re in this game. I hard tr Roden so I believe his voyeur claim but I actually think that the category of UB/RC is believable but scum is far more likely to pick role cop > UB and vice versa.

[Harley Quinn]

HQ hasn't claimed between n3 vig and vengeful yet, correct? So we don't know she's a vig.

Doc heals either JK or Roden. #wifom

Nah, Roden's role is almost useless. Jailkeeper is by a wide margin the strongest role we have - Ari should protect Ausuka without wifoming, and Ausuka is the one who WIFOMs choices.

Of course scum may not even want to shoot Ausuka given that I might be a UB.

Why wouldn’t scum want to acquire jk? That’s a powerful role for scum to have?

In a red Wallflower and green Enchant world, you are my pick for remaining scum.

[Harley Quinn]

Oops hit submit early

What I'm trying to say is; Do you want to reveal a target if you're vigi so I don't jail them

I think it probably makes the most sense to jk Imposion and me vig Enchant based off of what Ari said. I understand you don’t want to reveal but but Imposion could also be rolecop, so that’s my thinking on that.

[Harley Quinn]

Here i come again.

A little less conversation, a little more action
All this aggravation ain’t satisfactioning me

Helpful posting

[Harley Quinn]

Enchant could be scum BP right? Is there a point in vigging him? Maybe I'm missing something

^^^^^
this is why I would prefer voting out enchant to wallflower today

We had no kills and Wallflower was jk’d and I think that Ari makes the most sense as an nk target, no?

[Harley Quinn]

Here i come again.

A little less conversation, a little more action
All this aggravation ain’t satisfactioning me

Helpful posting

Thanks. It's not like anyone care what i think, yeah?

Enchant could be scum BP right? Is there a point in vigging him? Maybe I'm missing something

If you’re town, you need to do something to look town but sure I would definitely be interested in what you think.

[Harley Quinn]

I think we vote out wallflower

+1

My vote is spiritually on them.

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower and Enchant are both good lims.

Strategically, I'd vote out Enchant and vig Wallflower but willing to go with what the group decides. I haven't been batting 1000% due to my work schedule (but the massclaim plan was made before that to try and confirm Enchant as scum).

Wallflower was the jk target, no kills, so unless anyone thinks it’s likely Ari wasn’t the nk target, I don’t see how anyone else makes more sense?

[Harley Quinn]

If you’re town, you need to do something to look town but sure I would definitely be interested in what you think.

It's not about if i am town or not, it's more about "bestmechflip" and strong bias that town!me is useless anyway.

It’s a combination of both but yes it of course matters whether you’re town or not but I think due to both jk and Ari being the most likely nk, it sounds nuts to me to lim anyone other than Wallflower.

[Harley Quinn]

HQ I think you should decide on who you want to vig if WF flips scum and who you want to vig if WF flips town so that Ausuka can adjust her JK to not be on whoever you are shooting tonight

I absolutely think Implosion should be jk’d if that helps.

So I think her decision should take priority but rn, I’m leaning to vig Enchant.

And of course, I think Wallflower makes the most sense as the lim.

[Harley Quinn]

if wall flower flips scum we can JK enchant and vig a VT and still be p much guranteed to win if enchant is last scum

it also gives us an extra doctor due to UB

I think taking the safer path is better

if the solve really is enchant/wallflower we win either way

Like whom?

I currently tr everyone except for Implosion/Enchant and of course Wallflower.

So if Ausuka wants to jk Enchant, then my strongest sr is Implosion but due to mech, I think it makes more sense to jk him > Enchant.

If the game doesn’t end with those 3 flips, I’ll have to reacess.

[Harley Quinn]

I really don't get why people were so opposed to elimming Enchant yesterday because "he might be bulletproof! we must test him out with roden!" and now he's proven bulletproof everyone is like "ok lets elim enchant"

like um why didnt we just kill him yesterday then?

Math imploded and we accidentally hammered before the wagon changed.

I would have 100% limmed Enchant > Math. I would have never limmed Math because he totally obvtowned. I was absolutely pissed when that thread was locked and I saw the flip.

[Harley Quinn]

So I think her decision should take priority but rn, I’m leaning to vig Enchant.

I still don't get this? Isn't Enchant probably BP as either alignment

Yes, seems very likely to be the case, since I think someone else would have cc’d that.

[Harley Quinn]

if wall flower flips scum we can JK enchant and vig a VT and still be p much guranteed to win if enchant is last scum

it also gives us an extra doctor due to UB

I think taking the safer path is better

if the solve really is enchant/wallflower we win either way

@Ausuka, this is why I think jking Implosion and my vigging Enchant makes the most sense. Do you disagree with this?

I think Implosion’s posts have been pretty scummy and I really don’t see any good reason he shouldn’t be jk’d.

[Harley Quinn]

But like

Isn't that just wasting your shot then

Why? I don’t sr anyone other than Implosion so I don’t want to vig anyone else and I like Ari’s argument wrt that.

[Harley Quinn]

My only 2 choices for vig, assuming we lim Wallflower of course, would be in those two and I think it’s crazy that we don’t lim Wallflower.

[Harley Quinn]

I don't get it? I read Ari's post as the opposite of what you're saying? Enchant should be jailed instead of vigged? Since vigging enchant doesn't do anything

And that you vig some null/neutral read VT to narrow the Poe

I read it as she didn’t want Implosion vigged in case he’s UB and can be doc. I don’t sr anyone else but those 3: Wallflower, Implosion, Enchant.

[Harley Quinn]

I like the plan of voting wallflower off the island

Spoiler:

[Harley Quinn]

if wall flower flips scum we can JK enchant and vig a VT and still be p much guranteed to win if enchant is last scum

it also gives us an extra doctor due to UB

I think taking the safer path is better

if the solve really is enchant/wallflower we win either way

@Ausuka, this is why I think jking Implosion and my vigging Enchant makes the most sense. Do you disagree with this?

I think Implosion’s posts have been pretty scummy and I really don’t see any good reason he shouldn’t be jk’d.

And to be clear, this is the reason I shouldn't be JK'd: if I am scum, and we lim scum today, I have just sealed my own fate as a mechanical loss.

If WF and both you are scum and you are jk’d then how would we lose? I actually don’t hate those last few posts.

[Harley Quinn]

hq you need to shoot a vt. we can vote out enchant tommorrow

Which vt?

[Harley Quinn]

whoever you suspect the most?

as long as you tell ausuka so theres no chance she jails the same one

I think she should jk Enchant, no?

I’m asking for suggestions.

[Harley Quinn]

Okay guys, I’m starting to think Implosion may be town, so while the fake vig thing was fun and all, I’m just going to straight up hardclaim venge.

So Enchant is probably the last scum along with WF.

I think if Implosion was role cop he’d already know this.

I hard trs all the vts and tl STD so, I’m now pretty confident I was wrong on Implosion.

[Harley Quinn]

I also think Implo is town, tbf. Out of those vts, STD is definitely my scummiest read but like, I'd just be surprised if it wasn't wall flower/enchant?


Like... wallflower/enchant
STD/gamma/maybe dweelee - idek a bit above null
Everyone else.

If the game doesn’t end with WF/Enchant, I guess. Otherwise, no clue.

[Harley Quinn]

Venge makes sense for HQ. That's what I suspected.

That’s not what you said before Math flipped. You said you wouldn’t have expected me to pick this category. So unless you mean venge > N3 vig?

[Harley Quinn]

Didn't want to say it out loud but I kinda expected you to pick Vengeful.

It’s consolation for getting wrongly sr. I also like prs where I don’t really have to do too much. Also kept that role from scum.

I was trying to play differently not to get too tr but then I just gave up with that.

[Harley Quinn]

Okay guys, I’m starting to think Implosion may be town, so while the fake vig thing was fun and all, I’m just going to straight up hardclaim venge.

So Enchant is probably the last scum along with WF.

I think if Implosion was role cop he’d already know this.

I hard trs all the vts and tl STD so, I’m now pretty confident I was wrong on Implosion.

Think this makes HQ close to clear? Just because if we flip one more scum, and HQ lives to elo, it is always the correct play to lim hq and I don't see why scum would claim in this scenario

Obviously if she makes it to 3p elo still flip her because it's optimal play there I think

I don’t agree with this, especially since you’ve pretty much guaranteed that scum won’t shoot me. But since I am venge, I could theoretically be the town hero in that extremely unlikely scenario if I venged correctly.

At any rate, I think the game likely ends with WF/Enchant flips and he tried to get us to lim Ari over HEM, which was weird because his only other read the entire game was on Math.

[Harley Quinn]

Can we cut debate and hammer?

We still have 3 days, why the rush?

That's not rush in any case, but i think mafia are more likely to be early voted, due DISTANCING, and after 7-10 days of bunnyhopping someone else dies instead.

It's annoying.

Can you do me a favor and read the VCs?

I did.

Aris (not seriously probably)>HAM and then counterwagons Dwlee99+Math.

Therefore, Aris is maf, but you all have affection to anime, so let's kill HAM instwad.

I also didn’t actually initially get Ari’s reasoning for why she sr Enchant for picking 1 + bp, because it absolutely wouldn’t have been even remotely scum indicative for me to have done that but the difference is I am sometimes an early NK in games but how often is Enchant?

And if he was town and wanted to live longer, why pick 1?

Considering he hasn’t done anything all game particularily townie except his Math read which was self-pres, why would scum shoot him?

He probably picked bp to avoid a vig shot.

[Harley Quinn]

You are enchanted by Aris, and can't see devil.

And again, another push on Ari.

[Harley Quinn]

Roden used watcher on me?

... Why in the hell.

This reaction also didn’t make a whole lot of sense coming from town!Enchant. You would think he’d be relieved to have his bp confirmed right but he’s probably unhappy about this because unlike on n1, where I couldn’t be confirmed as the almost certain nk target because of his bp and since we know Gamma tried to vig Math, he still has it, so Ari was almost certainly the target.

[Harley Quinn]

Here i come again.

A little less conversation, a little more action
All this aggravation ain’t satisfactioning me

Helpful posting

Thanks. It's not like anyone care what i think, yeah?

Enchant could be scum BP right? Is there a point in vigging him? Maybe I'm missing something

Again, another strange reaction. Enchant seems fine with being vigged and he wouldn’t had he actually been targeted on n1.

So, I actually think it doesn’t matter all that much which of WF/Enchant we flip. I think the game ends after both are flipped.

However, WF is less scummy by play, so far more likely to weasel out of it but yeah. I think town winning is pretty much a formality at this point.

[Harley Quinn]

I don’t agree with this, especially since you’ve pretty much guaranteed that scum won’t shoot me. But since I am venge, I could theoretically be the town hero in that extremely unlikely scenario if I venged correctly.

I don't understand why? Normally in elo, you have to pick 1 player and if they're scum you win. If you lim the venge you get 2 players and if either is scum you win. It seems a lot easier. Obviously you don't like insta lim you have discussion beforehand

Oh well if you’re taking the venge part into account, then it makes more sense but it’s not going to happen anyway because game is already solved. It is exactly WF/Enchant because Enchant knows I was the nk target, hence him being fine with being vigged.

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Wallflower

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Enchant

I still have some slight paranoia on STD.

[Harley Quinn]

If it’s not too late, I think Ausuka should jk Wallflower.

[Harley Quinn]

I’m like 99.9999999% sure Enchant is scum.

[Harley Quinn]

is wallflower not hammered?

Idk, if it if, she’s probably scum but Enchant for certain is, based off my analysis.

[Harley Quinn]

It’s either Enchant/Wallflower or Enchant/STD.

He didn’t pick bp to be immortal, he picked it to fuck with the NKA. It probably doesn’t matter because Wallflower is probably mech guiltied but on the slight chance scum did target Ausuka, it’s a slight possibility it could be STD. He’s barely been present in this game.

[Harley Quinn]

You make a valid point but look at the VC, Enchant is the first vote on WF vs HEM and STD isn’t doing anything, so what’s your plan if Wallflower flips town?

[Harley Quinn]

I think it’s possible scum thought Ari didn’t jk Ausuka. Maybe I’m wrong but I think STD could still be scum but like I’m almost certain Enchant is.

Enchant’s reactions to both Roden check and Ari’s not wanting to vig him don’t make any sense if Enchant is town, plus he tried to get Ari limmed > HEM.

Only way town or scum anything other than scum bp or okay with my hypothetical vigging them is if they know they were not targeted n1 and that’s why he was upset at Roden’s voyeur check because Roden makes it clear he wasn’t targeted. Like what town!bp doesn’t jump for joy here at being confirmed bp and what anyone other than never targeted scum bp is unhappy at not being vigged?

Yeah, I really think Enchant/STD is a possibility. Where is STD and why isn’t he doing anything?

So I just don’t know if it really makes that much sense for me not to lim my strongest sr when I still have some slight paranoia on STD. \_0_/

Like I’m not going to fight it if everyone prefers WF but I just don’t see anyway Enchant is ever town here.

[Harley Quinn]

I do think it's best to avoid talking to Math atm until he's ready to listen about how he's affecting people and how his communication isn't working. He's just not willing to. I'm not going to engage his opinions on me, but if someone thinks he makes a particular point they'd want my input on, I'd be glad to answer.

I don't think Math will be better until Dwlee or I flip or are mech cleared, even if I reasses on Dwlee. Math's positions make me not want to though even though I don't have a strong read on Dwlee. I just feel he is town.

Also, given the fact we're getting a Math wagon together,, I find Wallflower's timing off. Enchant strategically isn't be best lim for day 1 because he's a certain power role. If he took vengeful (pretty much a scum claim) it will not change. If he took ascetic cop, he'll get a result unless scum kill him. The only exception is that if Enchant took a one shot vig. He'd use it N1 and would have next to no idea who to shoot. However, there's a risk any scum takes the one shot vig.

My thoughts might not make complete sense and maybe I have this pathological need to be DIFFERENT, but my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.

When it comes to Enchant, it just feels… wrong to me that we have to let speculation about a role Enchant may or may not have take them off the table, especially when there’s no one else I actually could vote for right now and say “yeah that feels right to me”

Posts like this one give me pause. Does this sound especially partnery?

[Harley Quinn]

I think it’s possible scum thought Ari didn’t jk Ausuka. Maybe I’m wrong but I think STD could still be scum but like I’m almost certain Enchant is.

Enchant’s reactions to both Roden check and Ari’s not wanting to vig him don’t make any sense if Enchant is town, plus he tried to get Ari limmed > HEM.

Only way town or scum anything other than scum bp or okay with my hypothetical vigging them is if they know they were not targeted n1 and that’s why he was upset at Roden’s voyeur check because Roden makes it clear he wasn’t targeted. Like what town!bp doesn’t jump for joy here at being confirmed bp and what anyone other than never targeted scum bp is unhappy at not being vigged?

Yeah, I really think Enchant/STD is a possibility. Where is STD and why isn’t he doing anything?

So I just don’t know if it really makes that much sense for me not to lim my strongest sr when I still have some slight paranoia on STD. \_0_/

Like I’m not going to fight it if everyone prefers WF but I just don’t see anyway Enchant is ever town here.

This post doesn't make sense.

What doesn’t make sense?

[Harley Quinn]

I am not upset at check, i questioned is Watcher (who is 1-shot) really targeted claimed BP and why. I didn't knew Roden is actually Voyour, which is acceptable.

Fact that i was not shot N2 have no connection to N1, I don't understand your accusation here.

Yes, vigging me is dumb. What else you expect?

Who is Wallflower’s buddy?

And any other reads you’d care to share?

[Harley Quinn]

I’m obviously not scum with anyone. I’m willing to switch my vote. And I definitely am town venge.

Having some slight paranoia on STD shouldn’t affect anyone’s read on me.

[Harley Quinn]

Ausuka, how did it completely go over your head that he completely dodged my questions?

[Harley Quinn]

I mean if hq is scum she threw with the venge claim so

No I didn’t. I decided to out the venge when I realized I was wrong on Implosion and I didn’t want to compromise your jk.

Like ffs, I am in complete disbelief at this.

Like yeah, this makes so much sense. I out being venge when I could have continued with my vig ruse to what end? Why does scum!me do that?

[Harley Quinn]

I will not answer anything, if you don't respect my mind, and you perfectly show you don't.

Therefore talking is useless. Why you ask questions, if you plainly always change topics?

Whatever, fine my vote stays then.

[Harley Quinn]

HQ i am saying I am almost sure you are town here, not that I actually think you threw

Yeah sorry then. Enchant’s response to me makes me think STD is a possibility because why wouldn’t town!Enchant just say Wallflower and STD?

So maybe I’m overthinking this because it is Enchant and it probably is just him and Wallflower. So I would lim in that order: Enchant/Wallflower/STD.

but his response makes me really not want to move my vote. because I had some doubt after his explanation but the way he just put it back on me when he knew exactly what I was asking him, just makes me even more confident with my vote.

[Harley Quinn]

Like yeah, this makes so much sense. I out being venge when I could have continued with my vig ruse to what end? Why does scum!me do that?

Like this is *exactly* the argument I'm making, if you're scum your only play was to claim n3 vig, or better yet just claim 1-shot watcher or draft cop tbh

Like someone let me know if I'm wrong about the mechanics of venge but I don't think I am

Yeah and if I vote out Wallflower and I could fake vig claim a shot on Enchant but I was going to out my venge the next day anyway if I was still thinking Implosion was scum but when I realized I was wrong. it just made no sense to continue with it.

[Harley Quinn]

If i am maf, my only play is claim Cop anyway and faking guilty for funnies.

Not claim for saving obwtown and dying hilariously for bunch of failurelogic ppl.
Nothing new, it's classic.

No because cop is aesetic and Roden confirmed you can’t be cop.

[Harley Quinn]

"Fake Vig claim on Enchant"

NO ONE EVER BELIEVES THAT

If you were never shot at, you wouldn’t die obviously but I was going to hardclaim venge the next day anyway if I still thought Implosion was scum, so I had 0 intention of doing that. It was only a question of when I out venge and I didn’t see the point of waiting any longer. Had I still sr Implosion, I might have waited until the next day but since I didn’t, continuing with the ruse only would hurt town, so I saw no point to it.

[Harley Quinn]

If i am maf, my only play is claim Cop anyway and faking guilty for funnies.

Not claim for saving obwtown and dying hilariously for bunch of failurelogic ppl.
Nothing new, it's classic.

No because cop is aesetic and Roden confirmed you can’t be cop.

...

IT WAS AFTER MY CLAIM HAPPENED. YOU DOING IT ON PURPOSE?

If you’re trying to get me to switch my vote to Wallflower, this isn’t convincing me of anything,

[Harley Quinn]

i still think wall flower is better to elim than enchant

because then implosion becomes a second doctor

it solves implo's slot and keeps ausuka alive an extra night

i dont think it matters whether we vote out enchant today or tommorrow

Okay, I see your point.

VOTE: Wallflower

Anyway we’ll know if my paranoia had any basis at least.

[Harley Quinn]

i just want to note that fmpov ausuka is conftown unless scum nokilled last night which would be somewhat odd

i tr her on play too

i just realized gamma might not be conftown, he could be a mafia one shot vig who did not shoot or a mafia pgo so watch out for that.

not sure what else i should say b4 we end day.

dwlee, std any solving you two want to do?

I think you’re wrong on Gamma. His vigshot on Math is consistent with his vote on him the next day. It is true that because of the jk there’s no proof of that but he’s been a hard tr for me since the beginning.

[Harley Quinn]

i have been meaning to analyze how the hem wagon took off and figure out likely partners but i got distracted yesterday

i will block out some time tonight to do some solving if we can not kill wallflower until that happens

That’s one of the main reasons I switched my vote to Enchant but it’s also possible it implicates Wallflower as well.

You and Dwlee are both spewed town based off of HEM interactions.

And yeah agree with you on Ausuka.

[Harley Quinn]

do you like want to get flipped? O___O

Honestly kind of? I feel like it’s necessary for the game, because otherwise people are going to be viewing everything through the assumption of me being scum. Once I’m flipped, people actually need to think of teams without me in it, but I think before then it’ll always be Wallflower/x, if that makes sense.

I should have stayed on Enchant

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower who should we be looking at after you flip town

I actually want to say I really appreciate you asking. I think I have been more self-defeating than I should have been here and while I've had the "no one listens to dead town" mantra going through my head it really is just perpetuating my self-indulgent wallowing.

I'm much more dayplay-focused than mechanics-focused, and so I'm not sure if I've completely gotten my head around everything, but I consider the almost-certain town to be:

Harley Quinn - Possible (probable?) N1 kill target. Appears genuinely confused as to why scum would try to kill Ausuka N2. The turnaround on Math was very much not like scum positioning etc.
Ausuka - The paranoid world where Ausuka has made all this up is... not likely? Ausuka in no way needed to frame me if scum.
Ari - HEM-interactions very probably not distancing. The paranoid world where Ari as scum no-kills in order to claim doctor saves is also... very unlikely.

I've had Titus and Implo in my mind as possible scum, but I'm still questioning Titus in particular and whether she would "take charge" as she has. But, the interactions with Mathblade reminded me of Titus-scum/Math-town dynamic I've seen elsewhere and reading back on Titus' play around the Mathblade wagons, it just feels agenda-driven to me.
Implo just keeps coming up for me because of reasons I've said before, but also I wonder if him being the most willing to consider the possibility that scum targeted Ausuka, is because he knows that scum did target Ausuka.

Roden, Enchant, even Gamma also feel possible to me but less likely. I often have Roden as town in my mind, but then I keep forgetting he exists. The way Enchant claimed yesterday felt unnecessary for scum to do, especially since I think scum would have considered claiming BP there to be a bad idea. And I still don't know whether Gamma knew they were hammering Math or not, but the votes against Ari felt needlessly inflammatory for scum to do.

STD, Bella and Dwlee feel a bit more town to me based on play but I guess there's nothing ABSOLUTELY ruling them out.

I guess the main thing is I want to make sure not to make any premature assumptions. I've had experiences before where I've just town-binned scum for what felt like good reasons at the time. But I know that it might be my flip that's needed to get people to think in a more open-minded way. To think about what might be going on that isn't the obvious.

Why do I allow myself not to trust my gut? No way this is scum.

[Harley Quinn]

Implo if scum will probably struggle because of the UB claim

But he seemed to really believe I could be vig and I would think rolecop Implosion would have already checked me and known I was venge.

[Harley Quinn]

Ari, Ausuka, Dwlee, Bella, Roden, Gamma all town. I’m very convinced of this. Titus, probably, Implosion maybe? STD who knows?

Who else is left other than Enchant?

[Harley Quinn]

I think implosion is almost definitely town, to be clear

Well my solve would probably be Enchant/STD.

If that doesn’t end the game, than I’m obviously reading someone wrong. It obviously means that you were the target not Ari.

Maybe Titus? Idk. I’m running out of trs.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

[Harley Quinn]

Why is Dwlee locktown

Also, why does my phone autocorrect Dwlee to Delete? That one's rhetorical, I don't expect you to answer I'm just annoyed by it

HEM was hardpushing Ari then switched to Dwlee to pocket Math. Well if it is indeed them, then they’ve massively switched up their scumgame because I was hard tr them independently of that.

STD would be the slot I feel the most suss on. Much of his posting just felt fake to me.

Other than Enchant that is.

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower is still alive right

Isn’t she hammered?

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

What is this supposed to mean?

[Harley Quinn]

HEM was hardpushing Ari then switched to Dwlee to pocket Math.

Is there any reason this couldn't have been distancing

I mean it’s possible but I just don’t think so because HEM switched from pushing Ari to Dwlee. so it doesn’t look like distancing to me. Gth, I don’t think scum!HEM would so obviously distance a buddy but Idk but I just don’t think it’s them.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

Why does this post seem informed to me?

[Harley Quinn]

I think HEM asked why I voted him — Last time I saw Aristeia like this she nailed Prism into a coffin. She gets my baa privilege until I have more effort into sorting personally

Be back later

Re-isoing Dwlee, I still don’t think it’s them.

Also, assuming Enchant is scum, why does scum!Dwlee try to kill me? Especially on n1.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

Why does this post seem informed to me?

Because it's truth.

If you think I’m “bad at game”, it sounds like you know something I don’t. Like you actually know who scum targeted, which makes me wonder why you voted Wallflower.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

Why does this post seem informed to me?

Because it's truth.

If you think I’m “bad at game”, it sounds like you know something I don’t. Like you actually know who scum targeted, which makes me wonder why you voted Wallflower.

OH I DON'T KNOW WHO IS MAFIA.

MAYBE I VOTING THEM.

YOU KNOW. PERHAPS?

You don’t sound like town, you sound like you’re intentionally trying to confuse people.

[Harley Quinn]

I don't think it's dweelee. Like, STD before them for sure.

I could elim enchant fine.

+1

Yeah, I’ve been hard tr them all game and I actually caught scum!Dwlee straight out of the gate in a not too recent game, so their probably one of the easier slots for me to parse.

STD doesn’t really look like he’s genuinely trying to solve and he seems not to care about the game and he’d actually have motive for killing me, Dwlee obviously wouldn’t.

So my final solve is HEM/Enchant/STD. If Wallflower has somehow bamboozled us, than probably just Enchant but that’s why I wanted to switch to Enchant because he refused to engage me on my STD read and he seems just too chill about Wallflower getting run up, if she were a buddy.

[Harley Quinn]

She’s not hammered, want to switch to Enchant but maybe she knew that she wasn’t, then there’s the Implo doc thing. \_0_/

[Harley Quinn]

She’s not hammered, want to switch to Enchant but maybe she knew that she wasn’t, then there’s the Implo doc thing. \_0_/

That’s literally the only reason I switched wagons. Otherwise, I would never have moved.

[Harley Quinn]

If Wallflower isn't scum, then Scum would have to be smart enough to NK or desperate enough to shoot at JK. I get the FoSes on me in that instance.

I'll vote Enchant since I am more confident here but would lim Wallflower too.

VOTE: Enchant

Me too but Ari and Ausuka keep talking about Implosion being doc, which is the only reason I haven’t switched yet. When I read Wallflower’s posts, I assumed she already knew she was hammered.

So if we lim Enchant then Implosion becomes bp and not doc. He’s UB and will get the first pr to die and that’s most likely Ari. It’s pretty much useless for him to get bp.

But Enchant is definitely scum but we need Implo to get doc, so Ausaka can continue to jk a bit longer.

[Harley Quinn]

@Ari, @Ausaka please get in here. Based on certainty of flipping a sr, I’d 100% prefer to flip Enchant but if we do than Implosion doesn’t get doc, so what should we do?

[Harley Quinn]

Limming enchant would work if we are hypothetically prepared to accept implo never does this as a scum gambit I guess

But don’t we still need your jk? Because if Ari dies, no doc and you’re next, so that’s my worry. If Implosion’s town, then we can guarantee keeping you alive for at least 2 more nights.

[Harley Quinn]

Tbh I don't scumread any of the VT claims other than Dwlee

Not saying I have them all locktown or whatever but I'd need convincing

Why does Dwlee kill me n1?

[Harley Quinn]

I guess I just feel uncomfortable putting things on auto pilot there's not a lot of solving

That's where I feel like I shine. That's why I am ok with either Enchant or Wallflower.

If another VT I'd go StD.

+1

Yeah, I think we have to go with Wallflower here.

Enchant has been acting super scummy practically daring us to yeet him, which makes me think he could be doing it hoping we lim him > Wallflower.

I thought Wallflower had made these posts post-hammee but if she knew she wasn’t actually hamlered, she could still be guiltied scum here. hoping to change our minds.

And also think of this, who is she pushing as her #1 sr? The only slot who can guarantee Ausuka safety for 2 nights.

I think limming Wallflower is 100% the correct play here.

STD has far greater miselim equity than Wallflower because he wasn’t jk’d when there was a no kill. Enchant is trying to mess with my head to convince me I’m wrong but I don’t believe I am.

I still think Enchant/Wallflower and if game doesn’t end STD but it would be foolish to lim anyone but Wallflower given Implosion’s role here.

[Harley Quinn]

I mean I want to talk more before Ari potentially dies because I'm far from confident in a WF scumflip

But like yeah limming wallflower is fine

If it weren’t literally for Implosion’s role, I would 100% lim Enchant but the way he’s been talking, makes me think he’s either trying to get us to lim him and then we have Wallflower saying she doesn’t think the most obvscum player in the game isn’t scum. Does that sound believable to you? Does anyone seriously tr Enchant here? And she’s hardpushing Implosion - the only slot who can ensure you live 2 nights.

It’s HEM/Wallflower/Enchant. STD is only a possibility if that’s wrong but I really don’t think that is.

~HQ,
scum wifom detector

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower isn’t sr Enchant. That’s a huge red flag for me because he’s been practically daring us to yeet him.

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower who should we be looking at after you flip town

Spoiler:

I actually want to say I really appreciate you asking. I think I have been more self-defeating than I should have been here and while I've had the "no one listens to dead town" mantra going through my head it really is just perpetuating my self-indulgent wallowing.

I'm much more dayplay-focused than mechanics-focused, and so I'm not sure if I've completely gotten my head around everything, but I consider the almost-certain town to be:

Harley Quinn - Possible (probable?) N1 kill target. Appears genuinely confused as to why scum would try to kill Ausuka N2. The turnaround on Math was very much not like scum positioning etc.
Ausuka - The paranoid world where Ausuka has made all this up is... not likely? Ausuka in no way needed to frame me if scum.
Ari - HEM-interactions very probably not distancing. The paranoid world where Ari as scum no-kills in order to claim doctor saves is also... very unlikely.

I've had Titus and Implo in my mind as possible scum, but I'm still questioning Titus in particular and whether she would "take charge" as she has. But, the interactions with Mathblade reminded me of Titus-scum/Math-town dynamic I've seen elsewhere and reading back on Titus' play around the Mathblade wagons, it just feels agenda-driven to me.

Implo just keeps coming up for me because of reasons I've said before, but also I wonder if him being the most willing to consider the possibility that scum targeted Ausuka, is because he knows that scum did target Ausuka.

Roden, Enchant, even Gamma also feel possible to me but less likely. I often have Roden as town in my mind, but then I keep forgetting he exists.

The way Enchant claimed yesterday felt unnecessary for scum to do, especially since I think scum would have considered claiming BP there to be a bad idea

.

Spoiler:

And I still don't know whether Gamma knew they were hammering Math or not, but the votes against Ari felt needlessly inflammatory for scum to do.

STD, Bella and Dwlee feel a bit more town to me based on play but I guess there's nothing ABSOLUTELY ruling them out.

I guess the main thing is I want to make sure not to make any premature assumptions. I've had experiences before where I've just town-binned scum for what felt like good reasons at the time. But I know that it might be my flip that's needed to get people to think in a more open-minded way. To think about what might be going on that isn't the obvious.

[Harley Quinn]

3833 tells you everything you need to know.

Wallflower: Enchant=town, Imposion=scum. And has Titus as another possibility in case we all get misted by this.

[Harley Quinn]

3833 tells you everything you need to know.

Wallflower: Enchant=town, Imposion=scum. And has Titus as another possibility in case we all get misted by this.

If we actually fall for this, we might actually if not be persuaded to lim Implosion but by shading Implosion here, it weakens the entire doc argument.

No townie honestly believes Enchant isn’t scum here and the hardclaimed UB is her biggest sr. And then you have Enchant acting all super weird, sounding informed etc.

Scum doesn’t want Ausuka to live 2 nights because her role is the biggest obstacle to a scum wincon and that’s why Implosion is spewed town by all of this. Scum doesn’t want him to get the doc and protect Ausuka, who is the closest thing we have to a cop in this game.

[Harley Quinn]

Enchant is not town
He would’ve been more clear about his pick logic earlier if he was

Of course he isn’t but we need to keep Ausuka alive for 2 nights and Implosion getting Ari’s doc is the only way to guarantee that.

[Harley Quinn]

Scumteam gambit:

Wallflower acting supertown but pushing scum motivated reads
Enchant acting off the charts scummy, so we will lim him over Enchant.

Scum hail Mary, sacrifice Titus.

[Harley Quinn]

but what if I want to chat with dats in the dead pt with spoilers

But you’re the only thing we have that’s functionally like a cop.

Well, I see scum Wallflower getting jk’d again but scum maybe no killing, so you fakeclear her causing chaos and paranoia.

I’m not falling for it.

[Harley Quinn]

I mean I want to talk more before Ari potentially dies because I'm far from confident in a WF scumflip

But like yeah limming wallflower is fine

If it weren’t literally for Implosion’s role, I would 100% lim Enchant but the way he’s been talking, makes me think he’s either trying to get us to lim him and then we have Wallflower saying she doesn’t think the most obvscum player in the game isn’t scum. Does that sound believable to you? Does anyone seriously tr Enchant here? And she’s hardpushing Implosion - the only slot who can ensure you live 2 nights.

It’s HEM/Wallflower/Enchant. STD is only a possibility if that’s wrong but I really don’t think that is.

~HQ,
scum wifom detector

I mean if I'm being honest enchant and wallflower seems like

Way too easy

But I hope you're right and we should easily win if you are

I guess I can see how someone thinks Enchant is town, I had a similar thought at one point but then was like "am I seriously going to townread this ISO"

But the only player who actually thinks this is the only one that you jk’d when there was a no kill. Wallflower isn’t just any player here.

[Harley Quinn]

I guess what I'm saying is

Yeah wallflower and Enchant need to die or be confirmed by jailkeep

Neither should be allowed to endgame if scum

But I want us to discuss the other players while Ari and implo and other towny ppl are still alive

Sure but I could possibly see scum no killing as a gambit too. Scum wants to cause chaos and paranoia and get town to cannibalize itself.

It’s even possible that Wallflower would hope you jk Titus or anyone else and she no kills and then you have a fake guilty on that player.

Why is scum!Enchant practically lolcatting and daring us to yeet him if Wallflower isn’t his buddy?

[Harley Quinn]

It’s no accident that Wallflower is pushing Implosion and Titus as her strongest srs. Implosion is obvious=role but Titus is both good at mech and not obvtown like Ari which she knows can’t be pushed.

All it takes is Ausuka jking someone other than Wallflower and and a no kill to make us doubt the correct solve.

[Harley Quinn]

My pick is Enchant 100% scum.
Wallflower is likely scum.
If not StD.
Long shot Gamma taking advantage of Math elim by counting votes.

I still think Gamma is town though but yeah.

I would support an Enchant lim if we didn’t have a town UB who will take over Ari’s doc. I think Enchant is trying way too hard to get limmed > Wallflower and her pushing Implosion, Titus but tr Enchant pretty much seals it for me.

Pushing Implosion, Titus > Enchant is extremely suss to me.

[Harley Quinn]

I guess my implosion read is partially inspired by others and partially driven by not tring him

I feel the same about enchant

Enchant could sound townie if he really wanted to but I think he’s trying to get limmed to save Wallflower. The thing with Implosion is that if anyone other than Ari dies, he looks seriously suss unless of course he’s jk’d because scum!Implosion has no use for doc and if Ausuka dies the following night, he’s guiltied scum.

And why does scum ever pick UB > rolecop anyway? And I didn’t get the impression he knew I was venge because I would expect Implosion role cop to have checked me last night and found it out.

[Harley Quinn]

I guess what I'm saying is

Yeah wallflower and Enchant need to die or be confirmed by jailkeep

Neither should be allowed to endgame if scum

But I want us to discuss the other players while Ari and implo and other towny ppl are still alive

Sure but I could possibly see scum no killing as a gambit too. Scum wants to cause chaos and paranoia and get town to cannibalize itself.

It’s even possible that Wallflower would hope you jk Titus or anyone else and she no kills and then you have a fake guilty on that player.

Why is scum!Enchant practically lolcatting and daring us to yeet him if Wallflower isn’t his buddy?

I mean maybe

I don't think enchant is really doing anything different to what he's been doing all game though

He isn’t doing anything so Gamma’s not wrong. This is 100% Enchant scum meta.

[Harley Quinn]

-snip-

I think Enchant is the kind of player who could easily yolo pick a killing role or a blocking role or something. I'm not going to push it hard right now, mostly because yes, it is true that if we paranoia-lim Enchant d3 and they are an ascetic cop we get 2 results. But I am going to be *really mad* if they don't get limmed d3-4 if they keep playing this way.I guess frankly I'm just very annoyed at what they're doing, because I had to play a game where they were doing this and I had to hold my tongue because it was chromavalon and I was their merlin, and this time I don't have to hold my tongue.

@STD does this sound like an Enchant buddy to you?

[Harley Quinn]

You literally played with me once before and it was my towngame where you was scum.

Stop lying pls.

If you’re referring to White Flag, you actually did things in that. First you try to shade Ari than me. No one’s buying it.

[Harley Quinn]

Spoiler:

if wall flower flips scum we can JK enchant and vig a VT and still be p much guranteed to win if enchant is last scum

it also gives us an extra doctor due to UB

I think taking the safer path is better

if the solve really is enchant/wallflower we win either way

@Ausuka, this is why I think jking Implosion and my vigging Enchant makes the most sense. Do you disagree with this?

I think Implosion’s posts have been pretty scummy and I really don’t see any good reason he shouldn’t be jk’d.

And to be clear, this is the reason I shouldn't be JK'd: if I am scum, and we lim scum today, I have just sealed my own fate as a mechanical loss.

um im always healing Ausuka

and when i get shot implo is always healing Ausuka

Yeah, this.

And I'm fine with Ausuka never-jailing Ari at this point as well.

Jailing enchant if this is scum

If wallflower flips town I feel like I should keep my target private?

If hq says she's vigging a VT claim I won't jail them

This seems like a good plan.

If WF and both you are scum and you are jk’d then how would we lose? I actually don’t hate those last few posts.

If WF and I are both scum, scum will lose no matter what (because my being alive guarantees Ausuka will never die), so there's no need to jailkeep me.

If WF is scum and I am town, then it's better to jailkeep someone else.

whoever you suspect the most?

as long as you tell ausuka so theres no chance she jails the same one

I think she should jk Enchant, no?

I’m asking for suggestions.

Basically, if WF flips town, then it's advantageous for scum not to know who Ausuka is JKing. She should maybe JK enchant, but if she publicly commits to doing so, then Enchant would just have their scumbuddy make the kill. She has said she's JKinig Enchant if WF flips scum (which is fine bc then only one scum is alive so they have no choice).

Any of the VT claims is fine for you to shoot, so long as Ausuka knows who. It doesn't help scum to know who you're shooting, but it does help them to know who Ausuka is jailkeeping, which is why we're coordinating it ini this way.

For reference VT claims (other than WF) are StD, Dwlee, Titus, or Bellaphant. I'd personally not shoot Titus.

Implosion I think spewed himself town with this. He clearly did not know I’m venge.

[Harley Quinn]

Spoiler:

Can we cut debate and hammer?

We still have 3 days, why the rush?

That's not rush in any case, but i think mafia are more likely to be early voted, due DISTANCING, and after 7-10 days of bunnyhopping someone else dies instead.

It's annoying.

Can you do me a favor and read the VCs?

I did.

Aris (not seriously probably)>HAM and then counterwagons Dwlee99+Math.

Therefore, Aris is maf, but you all have affection to anime, so let's kill HAM instwad.

You are enchanted by Aris, and can't see devil.

Did someone mention memes?

[Harley Quinn]

Wallflower’s at E-1 now and agree with Implosion here.

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Enchant

I'm still fine with dying here, but if people are prepared to trust me (well, at least a little bit) then I'd rather stay

Didn’t you say, your slot needed to be resolved to advance the game? And weren’t you saying before that Enchant was your tr?

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Enchant

I'm still fine with dying here, but if people are prepared to trust me (well, at least a little bit) then I'd rather stay

Didn’t you say, your slot needed to be resolved to advance the game? And weren’t you saying before that Enchant was your tr?

People seem a bit more open-minded regarding possibilities on recent pages, and I guess how the day plays out really determines it. Like, if I’m not elim’d here, then that means maybe the game can advance without it. If I am elim’d, then that’s probably what needed to happen.

Re: enchant, I feel like them along with roden and gamma are possible scum, but not as likely as implo/Titus in my mind. I’m not confident in Enchant being town (can one ever be confident in a read there?), but I do still lean that way. Not enough to sacrifice myself for that read though

I would really really like to know why Roden is scum? He’s like one of the most obvious townies. So here’s yet another reason why I think you will flip scum, Roden voyeured Enchant, confirmed his bp and that no one vidited him last night, so it makes absolutely no sense to me that town!you could both vote Enchant and sr Roden at the same time. Those reads are thoroughly inconsistent.

[Harley Quinn]

but seriously why is someone town because they have a role that they could have also just as easily had as scum? this is why I just wanted to get my flip over with and have people stop with the assumptions

That isn’t why I tr him but you haven’t given any reason for that read, it just seemed to come out of the blue. Because he confirmed that no actions were taken on Enchant, so seems weird to me, that anyone could think they made sense as buddies.

As you might remember, I was doc’d by Ari on n1 where there was also a no kill and Enchant claimed bp.

[Harley Quinn]

I've said all along (well for the last couple of RL days) that roden, enchant and gamma are at a similar place in my reads. Not my top picks for scum but possible.

First I'm asked WHY IS ENCHANT A TOWNREAD???

Then I say the same thing as the first line that I said a while back

Then I'm asked WHY IS RODEN A SCUMREAD???

seriously

Yes because you still haven’t explained that at all.

[Harley Quinn]

What would the endgame of that even look like. Imagine every VT claim spontaneously combusted and flipped VT.

That's STD, Titus, Bella, Dwlee.

We'd be left with me, HQ, ari, roden, Ausuka, Enchant, Gamma. I have a hard time imagining what the game even looks like from there.

Worth mentioning that Roden's role is actually somewhat relevant with 1 scum left - if Roden targets the same person as Ausuka, and there is a kill, and Roden sees Ausuka jailing, then Ausuka becomes conftown. Similarly Ari. I mean if Enchant isn't scum then there's a good chance whoever scum is at this point is just deciding to play the game nightlessly so this might not even be relevant.

I did see Enchant get JK'd btw. Pretty sure Ausuka is already conftown though with Wallflower elim.

You too for voyeuring Enchant and mech guilting Wallflower and me as well for blatantly obvious anti-partnery interactions with Wallflower.

So did Ausuka actually jk Enchant then. I thought she might have jk’d a vt to see if Ari died. I’m shocked that both of us are still alive.

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Enchant

I guess it was optimal play for scum to nokill here but like

Whatever lol let's just Lim enchant and not be boring

Jailing save the dragons tonight

+1

If it’s not Enchant, that would be my next guess.

I think Titus spewed town by Wallflower. It’s pretty clear to me that she wanted Titus flipped over her.

What’s making me slightly hestitant is that she never mentioned STD but Enchant has suss interactions with HEM. I would rather get as much info as possible just in case we’re wrong, so don’t want to rush this day.

[Harley Quinn]

I jailed Enchant, I'm not a gambit player really. I will continue to do as I claim so town can make accurate conclusions about my jailkeep if I die

I’ll probably vote there. But had you jk’d STD for example and Ari or me died, than you’d have a mech guilty on Enchant right?

Like if Enchant is scum, the only way he kills last night is if he was convinced he was jk’d and had nothing to lose, so it probably is him but we could have been certain.

[Harley Quinn]

That's only from the perspective that scum has to be Enchant or STD, in which case we win anyway

It still could have been someone like Dwlee in that case.

I really think they’re town. Their iso gives me townpings.

[Harley Quinn]

if Enchant is Mafia that would mean an Enchant/Wallflower team decided to either shoot Mathblade, shoot noone, or shoot Harley Quinn

does that make sense?

If Enchant is scum, scum obviously shot me. Wallflower had me as her top tr, iirc? Math was defending scum, who would shoot him and with no scum rb roles, I don’t believe scum no killed.

Have you ever seen a game where scum shoots the heavily susses cw? The fact that Math still got miselimed despite both of us swearing he’s locktown, speaks volumes.

[Harley Quinn]

there's something truly depraved about still being a UB on day four in a setup where half the player list has a power role.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-mountainous game that had no nks by d4.

[Harley Quinn]

I low-key want to wait to lim enchant until implosion gets a role

How many days should we wait though? I don’t agree with limling all of the vts before him. Scum don’t really have any motive to nk rn.

[Harley Quinn]

well it would take 4 days to elim all 4 VTs

we could do it in a day if we fast night every night or 8 days if we don't

I think you’re too focused on mech. We should be basing this more on play - highest scum equity to lowest. This way if we’re wrong on both Enchant or STD, this game won’t take forever.

[Harley Quinn]

Roden can't kill and use voyeur at the same time

I looked back to when Roden claimed his results on Enchant. He claimed them after you claimed jk on Wallflower but he made it a point of saying that no one targeted Enchant. Had he wanted to save Wallflower, why say that? If Roden’s scum, he could say he cannot confirm results, couldn’t he? So by confirming no one visited Enchant, he guaranteed the mech guilty on Wallflower.

[Harley Quinn]

HEM ISO I think spews both Dwlee and Titus as town.

[Harley Quinn]

town should never pick bp over ascetic cop

What's the scum agenda though? I feel like Enchant can only be scum if scum with MathBlade.

I think atp we should just cut the massclaim now and avoid any further damage if it's this contentious

I think I'm with you on this, and I think Math is the way to go today

What do people make about this?

[Harley Quinn]

Actually, you know what?

VOTE: Enchant

I don’t care about the numbers

I do think it's best to avoid talking to Math atm until he's ready to listen about how he's affecting people and how his communication isn't working. He's just not willing to. I'm not going to engage his opinions on me, but if someone thinks he makes a particular point they'd want my input on, I'd be glad to answer.

I don't think Math will be better until Dwlee or I flip or are mech cleared, even if I reasses on Dwlee. Math's positions make me not want to though even though I don't have a strong read on Dwlee. I just feel he is town.

Also, given the fact we're getting a Math wagon together,, I find Wallflower's timing off. Enchant strategically isn't be best lim for day 1 because he's a certain power role. If he took vengeful (pretty much a scum claim) it will not change. If he took ascetic cop, he'll get a result unless scum kill him. The only exception is that if Enchant took a one shot vig. He'd use it N1 and would have next to no idea who to shoot. However, there's a risk any scum takes the one shot vig.

My thoughts might not make complete sense and maybe I have this pathological need to be DIFFERENT, but my understanding is that the main reason this matches Math-scum is the giving up on saving HEM rather than just continuing to push the townread, right? I am concerned by that too, but given the state of the game and especially HEM not even posting at the time, I can see a world where math truly feels that way.

When it comes to Enchant, it just feels… wrong to me that we have to let speculation about a role Enchant may or may not have take them off the table, especially when there’s no one else I actually could vote for right now and say “yeah that feels right to me”

I've said all along (well for the last couple of RL days) that roden, enchant and gamma are at a similar place in my reads. Not my top picks for scum but possible.

First I'm asked WHY IS ENCHANT A TOWNREAD???

Then I say the same thing as the first line that I said a while back

Then I'm asked WHY IS RODEN A SCUMREAD???

seriously

Yes because you still haven’t explained that at all.

On balance, I think Roden is probably town. He hasn’t pinged me in the same way Titus and implosion have, but I often realise that I don’t actually think much about Roden. He’s not at the front of my mind, and I don’t think the reasons for townreading him are that solid. So, while he’s still more likely town than scum, he’s not as much of a townread as others.

On balance, I think Enchant is probably town. There are things about how Enchant has played that I think are quite townie for them (for e.g. the way that they went about the BP claim), but I don’t feel confident in my ability to read Enchant, and with a lot of people thinking they are scum, I have to admit there’s a reasonable chance I’m wrong. Sure, deep down I suspect that I am right, but I can’t be as confident in that as people I townread more.

This could be possible scum distancing. Votes Enchant when he was clearly in no danger. Trs him when he is then votes him while suddenly doing a 180 about not wanting to be limmed. I don’t think Wallflower thought she had a chance at not dying. She likely realized it would look bad for Enchant if she didn’t make an effort.

I seriously doubt that she thought it would change anyone’s mind on her. I think it was done for wifom purposes.

[Harley Quinn]

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

Ari, Ausuka, Dwlee, Bella, Roden, Gamma all town. I’m very convinced of this. Titus, probably, Implosion maybe? STD who knows?

Who else is left other than Enchant?

You don't really want to see me walts with conftown status while bulletproof, do you?

You're not conftown, we've been saying you were going to get elim'd on Day 4 since the start of the game.

Who's scum?

I will turn after second scum die and i am jailkept while kill happens.

OH I DON'T KNOW WHO IS MAFIA.

MAYBE I VOTING THEM.

YOU KNOW. PERHAPS?

I just don’t understand why scum wouldn’t have targeted Ari but fliiped scum!Wallflower doesn’t make these posts.

Or you are bad at game.

Why does this post seem informed to me?

Because it's truth.

You literally played with me once before and it was my towngame where you was scum.

Stop lying pls.

I would be down to clown if it got that far

Then why won't you selfvote?

I love these last two posts, almost as amusing as his Ari’s the devil but we won’t lim her > HEM because of anime.

[Harley Quinn]

if you wanna kill me you can kill me if it's easier i think this game is pretty much won for town

Do you think scum!STD makes this post?

He had no votes on him at the time?

[Harley Quinn]

:/

I'm fine with that plan. And tbh I didn't even realize that I helped mech guilt Wallflower there.

I still think it's just Enchant tbh, but if people want to vote STD just in case then fine.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

@Roden if you really think it’s Enchant, then why drag this out? Atp, I don’t honestly think Implosion is going to get to use his UB and we probably just wasted a flip.

[Harley Quinn]

STD is at E -1 now, can someone unvote?

[Harley Quinn]

VOTE: Enchant

[Harley Quinn]

if you wanna kill me you can kill me if it's easier i think this game is pretty much won for town

Do you think scum!STD makes this post?

He had no votes on him at the time?

i think he might and i literally don't care about reading people based on things like this right now; i just care about chain-limming all the VT claims because it's optimal to do so.

No it isn’t. Not as long as Enchant is in the game and you being this fixated on something that is clearly likely not happening is weird imo.

Unless you actually tr Enchant here, why are you so opposed to him flipping?

[Harley Quinn]

if you wanna kill me you can kill me if it's easier i think this game is pretty much won for town

Do you think scum!STD makes this post?

He had no votes on him at the time?

It's not impossible for scum to say. Wallflower looked townie yesterday but everything she said was ultimately NAI, she kinda just had to say what she did and the same is true for scum!STD. Or really scum!anyone this game. Best play for scum right now is to let the pitchfork mob have their way and be amicable.

:/

I'm fine with that plan. And tbh I didn't even realize that I helped mech guilt Wallflower there.

I still think it's just Enchant tbh, but if people want to vote STD just in case then fine.

VOTE: Save The Dragons

@Roden if you really think it’s Enchant, then why drag this out? Atp, I don’t honestly think Implosion is going to get to use his UB and we probably just wasted a flip.

Because if STD is town and scum no kills again to stop the UB getting Doctor, then we are guaranteed to have two conftown in ELo.

If he flips town while getting run up, he’s already dead.

I was only seriously considering STD if Wallflower flipped town and/or Enchant also flipped town. Wallflower was mech guiltied, STD isn’t.

And flipping all of the vts so there’s a snowball’s chance in hell, Implosion gets to use his UB. is seriously stupid af. There’s absolutely no incentive for scum to kill anyone here, especially Enchant.

[Harley Quinn]

being this fixated on something that is clearly likely not happening

std was at e-1 though?? wdym "clearly likely not happening"

STD had no votes on him when he offered to be the lim.

What isn’t likely to happen is you getting to use your UB because obviously the optimal play for scum here is to jist ride it out and no kill, so why should we drag out this game, when it clearly looks like that’s not going to happen?

If we lim STD and game doesn’t end, which I think it won’t but Ausuka jks someone other than Enchant, he would be stupid to kill anyone if scum here because as soon as he isn’t jk’d and anyone dies, he’s confiscum here and also even if it isn’t him, scum’s best play is to keep the game nightless.

However, I think there are damning associatives between both flipped scum and Enchant and given the extreme likihood of game continuing to be nightless, I don’t think it makes a helluva a lot of sense to lim STD before Enchant.

[Harley Quinn]

STD had no votes on him when he offered to be the lim.

And yet, as soon as I voted him, four people followed

I don't disagree that Enchant is the most likely person (or at the very least, among the most likely) to be scum here. I just would like to delay eliminating them so that we can eliminate some VTs who are among the next most likely while scum still have the bonus incentive not to kill of me being uninherited, in case Enchant is actually town, because I'm ostensibly 100% confident we're going to win the game

eventually

if Enchant is scum.

I don’t think you’re going to get to use your UB because it’s optimal for scum to play nightless and I don’t see why we shouldn’t lim to scummiest player.

[Harley Quinn]

So what if 4 people followed? He had 0 votes on him when he offered to be flipped.

[Harley Quinn]

The point is that limming Enchant immediately removes scum's disincentive to shoot Ari (that disincentive being that I'll become doc). So they will just shoot Ari. It's entirely possible scum is someone who's flying under the radar right now, in which case, even if we think I ultimately won't be able to use my UB, it's best to keep doing other lims that force scum to keep not killing for now so we can earn even more free mislims.

There’s only one scum left in the game and unless you’re saying it’s not Enchant and pretty much everything points to yes, than what is your objection?

It would be hella dumb for scum to shoot Ari here or anyone, because if it’s Enchant, he’s dead. If it isn’t then ditto. Scum who is not Enchant have 0 interest in innoing him, so either way, I don’t see that happening.

In the extremely unlikely chance game doesn’t end, Ausuka can jk STD. I don’t see why scum!STD with no votes on him att, who isn’t mech guiltied offers to be the lim. Titus is spewed town by both HEM and Wallflower as are Dwlee. Gamma looks like a HEM pockent, etc. I could go on and on but you literally said yourself in one of your initial posts that Enchant was playing identically here to Chromavalon, so I really don’t understand why you think dragging this game out to the point where town becomes apathetic is good for the gamestate?

There was a no kill last night. Which means one of two things: Last scum is actually Enchant or scum who is not Enchant don’t want him inno’d. Iow, you’re very unlikely to get to use your UB regardless. There really is no incentive for scum to kill here because if scum is not actually Enchant, it would have happened last night. If Enchant isn’t jk’d and there’s a kill, he’s toast.

There is 0 reason for scum whether Enchant or not Enchant to kill as long as he’s alive, so no nk is happening anyway.

So there’s no reason not to lim him, unless you actually have reason to think he’s town and I strongly believe game ends with his flip.

[Harley Quinn]

I knew Enchant was scum and if he wasn’t flipped today, I was going to do whatever’s necessary to get him flipped tomorrow.

[Harley Quinn]

WE ALL THREE WENT FOR BULLETPROOF BECAUSE OF THIS.

IT WAS HILARIOUS ONLY FOR 10 MINUTES.

This is the most hilarious thing ever.

~ the scum pt will be open at all times, including in the pregame phase

So how did this happen? Didn’t you guys talk about this in the scum pt first?

[Harley Quinn]

Whelp
My flip is clearly wrong

It’s uninformed idiot

Sorry

(This is sarcasm my flip is not wrong)

You were right about Wallflower. Enchant was practically daring us to lim him. I’m just glad this game didn’t take like forever to end.

[Harley Quinn]

Classical "I will PM mod and won't tell anyone".

Lmao

Yeah I think Mala slot could have gotten roleblocker which would have made things a lot easier for you guys

Yeah, scum can’t win against an uberstacked town. Town deprived scum of all of the good roles: role cop, rb, vigs/venge, jk etc.

[Harley Quinn]

So GGS

Why did you try to kill me? Because I was obvious town?

[Harley Quinn]

So GGS

Why did you try to kill me? Because I was obvious town?

It's not mine idea. I mostly just listen to other mafs in that regard.

I guess I’ll have to ask Wallflower and HEM that question.

[Harley Quinn]

Major props to Ari for docing me and Ausuka for jking Wallflower.

Thanks for modding Dats.

GG

I didn’t expect to be so obvtown straight out of the gate.

[Harley Quinn]

Major props to Ari for docing me and Ausuka for jking Wallflower.

She killed me so the kill failed anyway I did nothing useful the entire game tbh

oh and also I apparently saved wallflower from dying so

That's fun

I actually hadn’t read the actions, so why did Wallflower try to kill you instead of Ari? And Gamma actually tried to vig her. Wow.