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[shellyc]

- dodgy dave stubbornly sitting on his hands the entire day
- Plus hammering without a claim twice and ending day 3 way too early
- shelly with an unconvincing and conveniently timed claim

Individually any one of them looks scummier to me than either duppin or Hectic but together there is no combination that satisfyingly explains how they've played today. Shelly sticking her neck out to save dave by going after duppin is a strange risk if that's the team, even stranger if it's Plus/shelly (which I doubt, but suppose is still possible).

[duppin]

It remains possible that I have been completely fooled by the entire scum team deciding to townread me, in particular duppin's reasons for trusting me reminded me of Noraa and I really don't think my day 1 ISO was all that great considering most of it was spent tunnelling town. I don't understand why he wavered on his Hectic read but not on me when from his point of view Hectic has been backing him up all along and I have been the one to avoid committing, so if anything I should look like the opportunistic scum waiting to see which way the wind blows. It kind of looked like it was a reaction to Plus mentioning the duppin/Hectic team possibility. He certainly has had a suspiciously explain-y tone at times which I have put down to personality. Finally, the independent raising of the replace out theory by Hectic and duppin sticks in my mind, it could suggest that this was something scum talked about in pt.

found it

congratulations you found a post where he is scared of me and hectic buddying him which i just said he was paranoid of - want to go over all the posts where he clearly says he believes us over you?

[shellyc]

uh how about you just iso me. i brought up the fact that she never voted on you and actually gave you a slight tr for your play even though her play was dodgy, i pointed out how she dodged the plus wagon but then later retracted that as i realised she had voted on plus earlier etc

who's she here

also why should I ISO confscum

[duppin]

how about referring to his last post of the day?

[duppin]

YES ONOWEN

you have no idea how happy I am to see you finally seeing the light. now we just need to get that + guy out of the darkness

See now I fear I am being manipulated again.

So this is where I am unless I survive to day 5 and go back to doubt and indecision:

It remains possible that I have been completely fooled by the entire scum team deciding to townread me, in particular duppin's reasons for trusting me reminded me of Noraa and I really don't think my day 1 ISO was all that great considering most of it was spent tunnelling town. I don't understand why he wavered on his Hectic read but not on me when from his point of view Hectic has been backing him up all along and I have been the one to avoid committing, so if anything I should look like the opportunistic scum waiting to see which way the wind blows. It kind of looked like it was a reaction to Plus mentioning the duppin/Hectic team possibility. He certainly has had a suspiciously explain-y tone at times which I have put down to personality. Finally, the independent raising of the replace out theory by Hectic and duppin sticks in my mind, it could suggest that this was something scum talked about in pt.

But overall I end up thinking that this is just paranoia and that the scum team is simply shelly/dave. Hectic seemed genuine about thinking there was going to be an execution today, so the motive for the commuter claim as scum is weakened (he does not need to explain his survival to day 5 if the scumpartner he's defending is about to get executed). bugspray stuff is still a problem, but my instinct would probably have been to point it out without thinking too. And does duppin scum call attention to this if that was his partners play?

shelly's claim requires believing that despite being super confident this entire game, she got worried when she had a guilty result on her track. It also requires believing that she chose not to track the players she was suspicious of. Stitching up duppin instead of Plus is strange, but maybe the idea was that Plus would be too obvious. Perhaps she was worried she would not win in final three, perhaps she was just impatient and wanted to make a bold play, perhaps she intended to claim it was a reaction test but decided to press ahead when it looked like it might fly. It's a big risk, but I can see her going for it.

I think Hectic has a good argument that a lot of what she says sounds fake and it's difficult to imagine her believing in it, going all the way back to the Jackson push from day 1. It's probably worth comparing this with some of her town games to see if this is AI or if it's just how she plays but in isolation it looks clearly scummy.

With dave idk, it might just be because I haven't seen a lot. This day has gone all the way to deadline to allow time for him to do his hard reset and all he has offered is a mechanical defence that soft supports shelly but does not account for Hectic's claim or what she has actually said. It's a shame if he is town and this is all he has time for, but I would have expected town in this situation to have a bit more urgency in providing relevant content. He had no problem offering weak reads when he entered (2005) so I don't trust this "I have bad reads" explanation. Going back, he was prepared to hammer the Redados wagon because he agreed with it despite not once suggesting so during day 1, and he wordlessly echoed the Noraa/Mundivore/UNO solve despite claiming he had his own reasons which he never had the chance to expand on. It's not much and they feel like lazy reasons to say he is scum, but the simplest explanation is that he is and is just attempting to coast it out.

[shellyc]

Individually any one of them looks scummier to me than either duppin or Hectic but together there is no combination that satisfyingly explains how they've played today.

pedit: paranoia = bad in lylo
i know it because i've nearly lost a scumgame in lylo because of it

[duppin]

uh how about you just iso me. i brought up the fact that she never voted on you and actually gave you a slight tr for your play even though her play was dodgy, i pointed out how she dodged the plus wagon but then later retracted that as i realised she had voted on plus earlier etc

who's she here

also why should I ISO confscum

she is noraa

you iso conf scum to evaluate their play from before they were conf scum. anything noraa said day 1 is valid also you clearly did iso her lol, you were trying to push association reads day 2 when she was going down
another hypocritical statement

[shellyc]

no im referring to you lmao

[duppin]

shelly you can try to ignore unos last post as much as you will, fact is you are lying at this point (once again as hectic pointed out you also lied day 1), but i am sure plus will townread you for it so no need to be worried

[shellyc]

stop trying to fight we already won this game

you're flipping red today hectic concedes

[duppin]

then surely you shouldnt care about me trying to engage dave and plus

[shellyc]

but i am sure plus will townread you for it so no need to be worried

see you already lost hope

well played but just concede so we can speed this up and get to postgame

[shellyc]

then surely you shouldnt care about me trying to engage dave and plus

i care because i need my TRs to form a block and vote you

[duppin]

but i am sure plus will townread you for it so no need to be worried

see you already lost hope

well played but just concede so we can speed this up and get to postgame

no i lost hope yesterday when i realised that plus was most likely town

[duppin]

then surely you shouldnt care about me trying to engage dave and plus

i care because i need my TRs to form a block and vote you

but why would you mind, you are apparently very "charismatic"

[shellyc]

but why would you mind, you are apparently very "charismatic"

because I need to high effort to convince them

[shellyc]

im making sure you're not just bullshitting as you usually do

also plus is town and has been with me so you just lost

[duppin]

but why would you mind, you are apparently very "charismatic"

because I need to high effort to convince them

doubtful since me uno and hectic all put in a high effort yesterday and neither of them showed up, so i think you should just continue with the lies and being hypocritic that seems to work for you

[duppin]

im making sure you're not just bullshitting as you usually do

oh feel free to point out where i have been bullshitting and please can i go next and point out where you have been bullshitting?

also plus is town and has been with me so you just lost

once again a slip, you just know dave is town and is voting with you even though he has barely said anything. even plus has no idea where dave is but you have no concern at all

[shellyc]

doubtful since me uno and hectic all put in a high effort yesterday and neither of them showed up, so i think you should just continue with the lies and being hypocritic that seems to work for you

lol?

I had more posts than both UNO and hectic yesterday

[duppin]

that definitely seems to indicate it is just shelly/dave in which case i can criticise plus again

[shellyc]

once again a slip, you just know dave is town and is voting with you even though he has barely said anything. even plus has no idea where dave is but you have no concern at all

plus and dave are both town and with me. k thanks.

[duppin]

doubtful since me uno and hectic all put in a high effort yesterday and neither of them showed up, so i think you should just continue with the lies and being hypocritic that seems to work for you

lol?

I had more posts than both UNO and hectic yesterday

because you spam a lot of useless stuff. you called UNO out for pushing a 3 man team i mean jesus christ lol

[shellyc]

that was bullshitting since I did care about dave and asked the mod to prod them
i cant have anything to work with if someone is MIA, also duppin is just venting instead of convincing plus because they lost

[duppin]

once again a slip, you just know dave is town and is voting with you even though he has barely said anything. even plus has no idea where dave is but you have no concern at all

plus and dave are both town and with me. k thanks.

I am sure they are. We can go on for this forever, unlike you I am willing to point out all the flaws in your play, where you contradicted yourself, where you were hypocritical and were you straight up lied and none of this is based on my perspective it is based on what you have said in the game thread and everyone can see it so there is no denying it. If Plus wants to townread you for that then he is free to do so, but I will definitely call him out for it if he is town