You seem to think I'm a double-busser.
I generally avoid bussing altogether.
In post 3884, Tohru wrote:Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would.
You're scumreading playstyle. Look at my name. It's my approach; deliberately minimalistic. I'm also a late-D1 replacement. I average 1 post/day. My game solving's in all my posts; I mostly only quote pertinent content. (Almost)
Everything
holds relevance.
In post 3886, Tohru wrote:But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game).
YouapparentlymissedafewpostspushingFlubbersignificantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.
In post 3888, Tohru wrote:1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.
You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.
I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.
You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who
would
engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration
Actually, this time you're mistaken.
Enter was in the game for 75 pages.
I've been in the game for 78 pages.
Page-wise, we've been around an equal amount.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter.
In post 3929, Tohru wrote:in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.
By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, because
I
am the slot that's better at scum.
In post 3931, Tohru wrote:As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing.
And yet the thought didn't occur to you you're biased against mine?
In post 2063, Ankamius wrote:Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore
Experience says odds're slot's scum.
Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had
asked
me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Nobody did, but I can't control that, can I?
In post 3966, Tohru wrote:No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.
In post 2058, NotMySpamAccount wrote:Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.
Not convinced on Nimueh, but skitter-town/Brigitte-scum, can see.
Context: skitter made this post after I replaced in:
In post 2037, skitter30 wrote:the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh >
brigitte
= chara > xtoxm
My post was saying, "I think Nimueh's town, and the scum on Elbirn was Brigitte".
Succinct explanations != no explanations.
And I'll requote this until you answer them.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:14 pm
by Tohru
Why do you keep referring to your main when you're on an alt? Is your main public? If not, why use it as a crutch when you're caught scum? That seems rather unethical, to me, as an alt myself.
In post 4023, Tohru wrote:I actually don't know. Your scumteam actually played a pretty strong game to obscure that last scumbuddy, I'll say. Credit to your partner.
Alternatively, it's because I'm not scum and
actual
scum're taking advantage.
I've found evidence that you've confirmed yourself as scum in that quotewall you posted, so thank you for that. Right now as you're well aware, this is the stage of the rhetoric war where you try to avoid being lynched today such that you can escape immediately after. Unfortunately, unlike most games, this is a final-ultimatum sort of war? I (and town) lose if you escape; but your team loses if I lynch you. Usually in normal games everyone gets two chances.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:18 pm
by Succinct
In post 4026, Tohru wrote:Why do you keep referring to your main when you're on an alt? Is your main public? If not, why use it as a crutch when you're caught scum?
I'm referring to my main when it's pertinent, and to myself otherwise.
There's things which change on alts, things which don't change on alts, and things which people might think don't change even if they do.
I address each appropriately.
My main's not public, but many in the game know it by deduction. (Not hard to figure out.)
I talk accordingly.
You seem to think I'm a double-busser.
I generally avoid bussing altogether.
In post 3884, Tohru wrote:Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would.
You're scumreading playstyle. Look at my name. It's my approach; deliberately minimalistic. I'm also a late-D1 replacement. I average 1 post/day. My game solving's in all my posts; I mostly only quote pertinent content. (Almost)
Everything
holds relevance.
In post 3886, Tohru wrote:But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game).
YouapparentlymissedafewpostspushingFlubbersignificantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.
In post 3888, Tohru wrote:1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.
You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.
I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.
You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who
would
engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration
Actually, this time you're mistaken.
Enter was in the game for 75 pages.
I've been in the game for 78 pages.
Page-wise, we've been around an equal amount.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter.
In post 3929, Tohru wrote:in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.
By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, because
I
am the slot that's better at scum.
In post 3931, Tohru wrote:As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing.
And yet the thought didn't occur to you you're biased against mine?
In post 2063, Ankamius wrote:Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore
Experience says odds're slot's scum.
Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had
asked
me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Nobody did, but I can't control that, can I?
In post 3966, Tohru wrote:No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.
In post 2058, NotMySpamAccount wrote:Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.
Not convinced on Nimueh, but skitter-town/Brigitte-scum, can see.
Context: skitter made this post after I replaced in:
In post 2037, skitter30 wrote:the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh >
brigitte
= chara > xtoxm
My post was saying, "I think Nimueh's town, and the scum on Elbirn was Brigitte".
Need I remind you: until Elbirn cast this vote, he was the lead wagon.
Prior to this point, he's shown zero scumread of me.
It's survivalism/opportunism at its finest.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:26 pm
by Succinct
It's also noteworthy: Elbirn's the only player in this game to have played with me on this account in a past game.
He makes no reference to it at all, no mention of me, no engagement, not even a "succinct was wrong last time and is wrong yet again". Nothing, in spite of being the one player best positioned to have commentary on my play.
You seem to think I'm a double-busser.
I generally avoid bussing altogether.
In post 3884, Tohru wrote:Sure. Apart from his abysmally low postcount, post quality, and thereby remarkably poor contribution to the game, I also have not been able to find a single reason to townread him in a 150-pager. Looking at his ISO, it's scummily-barren, he isn't trying to gamesolve or have the conviction that town would.
You're scumreading playstyle. Look at my name. It's my approach; deliberately minimalistic. I'm also a late-D1 replacement. I average 1 post/day. My game solving's in all my posts; I mostly only quote pertinent content. (Almost)
Everything
holds relevance.
In post 3886, Tohru wrote:But, I observed his lack of emotion and/or conviction in those posts [compare to NMSA], hinting that it may be indicative of a distancing attempt on a scumpartner who was already under fire (and therefore also the prime candidate to escape the game).
YouapparentlymissedafewpostspushingFlubbersignificantly.
Of 29 posts, I pushed him in 9+ of them.
The ones not pushing him, most're establishing/defending/explaining townreads, or pushing NMSA, or pushing Elbirn.
I never let up on Flubber; my push on NMSA's been the same since D2.
In post 3888, Tohru wrote:1. Flying under the radar, and 2. Lack of gamesolving.
You'll never find me active, least of all not now. (Knowing my main'd help know why I'm particularly inactive now.) My gamesolving's in establishing townreads more than establishing scumreads, but I've done both.
I'm aided by people engaging me, but them not doing so's out of my control. If people don't interact with what I post, then I don't have anything to follow through on.
You're making me miss Ank, because she's one of the few who
would
engage me.
Question my reasons for NMSA, question my reasons for Elbirn, question my townreads.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Enter has only been in the game for a fraction of its duration
Actually, this time you're mistaken.
Enter was in the game for 75 pages.
I've been in the game for 78 pages.
Page-wise, we've been around an equal amount.
In post 3919, Tohru wrote:Succinct is extraordinarily scummy and therefore we can infer that he is arguably a lot worse at hiding his alignment than Enter.
In post 3929, Tohru wrote:in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.
By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, because
I
am the slot that's better at scum.
In post 3931, Tohru wrote:As for Elbirn I acknowledged that I am biased against his way of playing.
And yet the thought didn't occur to you you're biased against mine?
In post 2063, Ankamius wrote:Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore
Experience says odds're slot's scum.
Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had
asked
me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Nobody did, but I can't control that, can I?
In post 3966, Tohru wrote:No explanation was ever given for Flubbernugget and Brigitte scumread.
In post 2058, NotMySpamAccount wrote:Not much time to post, but skitter is a strong townread, and it should be easier for everyone else to see now why Nim and Brig are scum.
Not convinced on Nimueh, but skitter-town/Brigitte-scum, can see.
Context: skitter made this post after I replaced in:
In post 2037, skitter30 wrote:the elbirn wagon was: brigitte, chara, xtoxm, nimueh
my gut says that there's prob scum in the elbirn voters, probably in this order of likeliness: nimueh >
brigitte
= chara > xtoxm
My post was saying, "I think Nimueh's town, and the scum on Elbirn was Brigitte".
Um... you do realize that having a low postcount is not the
only
reason you're caught, right?
[*]Your Flubber trajectory is fake.
[*]Your reads are fabricated.
[*]You are going after low-hanging fruit.
[*]You've been flying under the radar, deliberately avoiding drawing attention.
[*]Your predecessor has been guilty of all of the above.
[*]Your position on Flubber is the perfect position that scum would have loved being in.
[*]Your predecessor is guilty of shadethrowing town.
I think you've made a sizable number of mistakes in this game. That's not to say you've been playing poorly, in fact, I think you've played well, because town didn't manage to catch you. So it is just your poor luck that Tohru replaced in and managed to identify your sneaky plans almost immediately, and ruining your narratives and your strong control over the game. With that in mind, my predecessor Ankamius was already playing a strong game and looking conftown even without my aid, so it's not
In post 4026, Tohru wrote:Why do you keep referring to your main when you're on an alt? Is your main public? If not, why use it as a crutch when you're caught scum?
I'm referring to my main when it's pertinent, and to myself otherwise.
There's things which change on alts, things which don't change on alts, and things which people might think don't change even if they do.
I address each appropriately.
My main's not public, but many in the game know it by deduction. (Not hard to figure out.)
I talk accordingly.
So you call upon your main to defend yourself when it's convenient. Cool.
Well, I
think
I may have deduced your main as well, and I do find it rather strange of a defense that "My main is too good as scum to be caught by the likes of you!"
Two issues:
1. It's clear that even if the statement is true, it is clear you are unable to play as optimally as you would be able to on your main, because of the gimmick being a handicap/additional complexity. Maybe it makes you more transparent (This is not necessarily bad!). Or maybe it does impede both your town and scum games, I don't know!
2. This requires a correct assumption of what your main is, but if I recall correctly there was a pretty unforgettable smear video going around regarding the claims of a certain verbose player being good at scum. /shrug
I myself understand the frustration when a perfectly smooth scumgame is ruined by an over-the-top late-game replacement which threatens to destroy the narratives that you have been working over the course of a whole month to build up. It really does suck that I am taking the win away from you. But, this is just a game for all of us to have fun. I'm sure you wouldn't feel good either if you win and town simply goes "well, town sucked, no credit to the scumteam".
Need I remind you: until Elbirn cast this vote, he was the lead wagon.
Prior to this point, he's shown zero scumread of me.
It's survivalism/opportunism at its finest.
In post 4031, Succinct wrote:It's also noteworthy: Elbirn's the only player in this game to have played with me on this account in a past game.
He makes no reference to it at all, no mention of me, no engagement, not even a "succinct was wrong last time and is wrong yet again". Nothing, in spite of being the one player best positioned to have commentary on my play.
He had very complex reads and was clearly solving in all of the games he linked. Like forgetting about Enter slot, Succinct was clearly obvtown in all three of these games. @Succinct, do you not have a scumgame anywhere?
In post 3957, Nimueh wrote:
Yes, she said the vote counter is broken or something?
Elbirn voted me for dumbass reasons and NMSA immediately jumped onboard. That’s the main reason why Chara’s defensiveness is irritating to me. I’m sure if she had two votes on her, she would not find her posts very reassuring if I made them. Why? Because it is my very strong current belief that scum is trying to set up Reck/me mislynches. Therefore anyone both pushing Reck and not townlocking me, who I can’t townlock for other reasons, can’t help pinging me.
In post 3970, Nimueh wrote:
That would be an awesome mechanic. Yeah, let’s swap horrible NMSA and Elbirn and bring back Brigitte and Xtoxm. I’m all for it.
I still think Elbirn is scum and NMSA is only town due to clear anti-partner associatives. Elbirn lied. He claimed to townlocked me, when the closest he ever got to that, is you can be town for now but if I sr you, we be cool crap.
In post 3998, Nimueh wrote:
I dunno, I think Chara’s AtE seems genuine, where as Elbirn’s is just posturing. The only thing that gives me possible pause about it, is would scum!Elbirn really be that nasty? Would he really employ character assassination as a method to mislynch me? I’ve witnessed scum do it, so meta reads would be most useful in that regard. Like I know for me, I wouldn’t do that as scum but I’ve seen it happen and been on the receiving end of it.
.....Okay.
1. I've told you that I have zero interest in interacting with you any further. Stop taking cheap swipes at me from the sideline, its openly toxic and miserable.
2. I never lied and you repeatedly stating that I did is horseshit. Stop it. You were town to me, even if I didnt verbally suck your dick about it in thread. I sincerely had you as town because you are capable of decent analysis, except for when anyone disagrees with or scumreads you in which case your ability for intelligent discourse vanishes. The fact that you put me from town to lockscum and your most confident scumread solely in reaction to me scumreading you is fucking absurd. And earlier when I implored you to just be fucking chill: that was a call for fucking
civility
instead of this toxic bullshit you pull. That you want to turn that into a bizarro world reason to push me is fucking insulting.
3. I'd tell you to point me to any character assassination I've done considering I was doing my best to be civil previously, but hey I guess now you can just point everyone to this post so fuck me I guess.
Yeah Frozen Angel, do not sign up for a game I'm in ever again, under any alt, idgaf, every time i play with you is the literal worst experience
Just fucking go away
UNVOTE: VOTE: Succinct
You shouldn’t out accounts, especially when you’re wrong. I’ve never played with you before under ANY account. But thanks, I consider it a huge compliment to be compared to FA.
When responding to lots of content, can only trim so much down.
Especially when responses involve extrapolating out existing thoughts. Statements're easily succinct, detailing how thoughts got from A to B aren't.
In post 4001, Nimueh wrote:I disagree with the bolded. In this setup, I think that’s reversed. In your typical game, scum can bus and still win. In this setup,
the ENTIRE scumteam must survive or they ALL lose
. Iow,
in THIS setup, self-preservation=ultimately protecting your team
. No, this is faulty reasoning here, because
self-preservation=survival of the scumteam in THIS setup
.
Then do you think every Flubber voter was town?
In post 4006, Nimueh wrote:I don’t understand this. Why is it the “correct theoretical play”? the correct theoretical play, is always pushing your strongest sr, no matter what.
Sorry, but no.
Correct theoretical play for a D3 IC claim's to let the IC claim live to D3. Chance of conftown > anything else. Correct theoretical play's
always
letting the IC claim live to prove it; that's why the obviously-BS claim was so defeating. I knew I couldn't do anything, because
I myself
knew the correct theory wasn't doing anything.
In post 4006, Nimueh wrote:Both you and NMSA have Elbirn in your POE but neither of you, are willing to vote him.
Where did you get the impression I wasn't willing to vote Elbirn?
My NMSA scumread's stronger.
That doesn't make me unwilling to vote Elbirn, just more confident in NMSA.
In post 4007, skitter30 wrote:yeah iirc at the end of day1 they had a fairly strong fairly mysterious scumread on flubber (like, way before it was popular) and like i asked about it but it never got explained
Pardon? Where'd you ask? I saw nothing of this sort until D2.
In post 4007, skitter30 wrote:tbf that was *fairly* close to eod so there might not have been time to actually push flubber there
Correct. Half my reason for voting Brigitte was Brigitte > tris as a wagon, and both were the lead wagons.
In post 4007, skitter30 wrote:but i don't remember the two of them interacting like *at all*
You'll also not remember me interacting with most players this game, because few have engaged me. Flubber's nothing special in that regard.
In post 4008, skitter30 wrote:and there's like no mention of flubber in their iso before this besides for the like the afore-mentioned scumread which is meh
In post 2063, Ankamius wrote:Like I remember he was in my scum pool but fucked if I know why anymore
Experience says odds're slot's scum.
Ank was talking about Flubber.
Someone who's in the scum pool yet you don't remember why is usually scum; doubly so when said someone's a player like Flubber.
If anyone had
asked
me about this at the time, I'd happily have said as much.
Fwiw, I have a really hard time believing Enter’s interactions with me just prior to replacing out, come from scum. Would scum!Enter really replace out over frustration that he couldn’t “engage” me? Urap2, was convinced it was a tvt.
Anyway, No, I don’t consider every Flubber voter to be town. My point was that you’re reasoning wrt to self-preservation in this game vs. protecting the scumteam don’t apply in this game, because if even one scum fails to escape, it’s essentially game over.
I think VCA makes it less likely either you or NMSA are scum, because neither of you voted him, just prior to IC claim but were already on the wagon. I really wish I had a scumgame of yours to compare to the 3 towngames you linked. :/
I also once again consider Elbirn’s AtE to be fake. It just seems way too over the top, as compared with Enter’s for example. So, I disagree with Tohru that scum takes this kind of risk but I still maintain, with another 7 days, we don’t need to rush this vote. I am not wrong about the extreme value of possible information wrt assoiatives. We have absolutely nothing to risk by taking our time, to make sure we get it right.
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:53 pm
by Nimueh
In post 1840, Enter wrote:I've agonized over this for a while, and usually I'm really against replacing out, but
I think it's just bad for me to try to play with a person that refuses to engage with me whatsoever
In post 2165, Succinct wrote:Creature > skitter30 > tris = Ankamius > Nimueh > Xtoxm = xRECKONERx = NotMySpamAccount = Elbirn = Chara (need more on all of these) > Flubbernugget = Brigitte
boy am i interested in hearing more about these (specifically: me, creature, chara, nimueh, and tris)
oh i thought i had asked about flubber here but apparently i didn't
@succinct
did you like go back to check this post?
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:59 pm
by skitter30
In post 4017, Succinct wrote:You'll also not remember me interacting with most players this game, because few have engaged me. Flubber's nothing special in that regard.
i mean really?
like i shouldn't look askance at the fact that you haven't engaged with flubber (your biggest scumread!) because you haven't engaged with *anyone* because they haven't engaged with you?
that's like shifting your responsibility for sorting people off of your shoulders and onto everyone else's
In post 3824, xRECKONERx wrote:i think in general my play of "being on the wrong wagon every day and specifically staying off flub" is bad play and im ashamed of it
like are you usually this bad as town?
i don't know. i used to not be. i play like 1 or 2 games a year now so i dont really know if im bad
Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:24 pm
by xRECKONERx
like i won paragon fucking 7 years ago
this is the first game ive played this year
last year i actually played more games than i have a long time, all as town, and i was 3-4 with a mix of being left till endgame and dying early
2017 i played two games as town and i won both
2016 i played a micro as scum that lasted like no time at all and then i played a large theme as town and lost
tris is pushing xtoxm using the same reasoning she used to push brigitte
but brigitte flipped town
i would expect town to reevaluate their reads on a townflip
but i think tris shows here that she's just pushing people's names out there without any actual thought behind the push?
argh im trying so hard to get the words out of my head that im thinking
basically, tris is on autopilot pushing on one of the major wagons and using shitty reasoning to get on board that resulted in a town flip last time but it doesn't occur to tris that is bad because tris is scum therefore everyone else is the same alignment so why would she need to change up her push/reasons/etc
god that's so confusing. ill try to step away and rethink how i can communicate my reasoning better
VOTE: tris
I think I wasn't very clear in my post. The wifom thing wasn't a reason to vote xtoxm. It was something that was frustrating me. It was actually something that made me more wary of the wagon, but as I said, I've been having trouble finding somewhere else to vote.
Tris vote was at 6:47 pm. Flubber IC was at 10:46 pm.
That means that it’s unlikely anyone on that wagon prior to IC claim, is scum. In one minute less 4 hours, Flubber could have easily been hammered.
Sorry Tohru but do you really think scum puts Flubber at L-2 and Flubber waits a good 4 hours to IC claim? In a normal game, maybe but how does scum know, he couldn’t have been hammered in those 4 hours?
In post 3990, Succinct wrote:By that metric, you'd be reading Enter, becauseIn post 3929, Tohru wrote:in a replacement situation you should always aim to read the easier and more transparent slot, not the one which is better at scum.Iam the slot that's better at scum.
