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Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:42 am
by Dunnstral
I think leaving a second mason unclaimed is more hurtful if Roden is town. We will never really be able to trust a mason claim unless they claim it immediately after Roden dies at night. And if they plan on doing that, there is no difference in claiming at that point or right now.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:43 am
by Lukewarm
In post 4018, Off The Hook wrote: In post 4012, Lukewarm wrote:Masons in a game without flips feels like it could be messy, but I don't actually know the best way to try to avoid the messiness :/
idk i dont think its all that messy
if we play our cards right
enchant just instantly accepting it at facevalue is a bit weird though
What were you thinking about when you said play our cards right?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:45 am
by Lukewarm
In post 4025, Dunnstral wrote:I think leaving a second mason unclaimed is more hurtful if Roden is town. We will never really be able to trust a mason claim unless they claim it immediately after Roden dies at night. And if they plan on doing that, there is no difference in claiming at that point or right now.
Yeah. My fear was that if true, and Roden dies tonight. And then, just at some point before the end of the game the second mason happens to die before they claim.
That could lead to a scenario late in the game with scum having the option of claiming to be bernard, even thought bernard happens to just already be dead.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:46 am
by Lukewarm
And we don't know that he is dead
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:47 am
by Dunnstral
In post 4021, Lukewarm wrote:He hard flavor claimed Rose and hard flavor claimed his mason partner as Bernard.
Doing it that way would be risky as hell if it were faked. Either by not being Rose or by Bernard not being a mason with him.
The only way it would make sense if faked would be if he is in private communication with Bernard.
So, the possible scenarios, imo are:
1)Roden is a mason with Bernard.
2)Roden is a neighbor with Bernard, and the two of the collectively agreed to fake claim masons
3)Roden is scum with Bernard.
3 seems unlikely, as that would imply that when the alignments of the player list was randed Rose and Bernard both happened to rand as scum
2, I guess could be happening, but I feel like most players would distrust that idea intrinsically. (Although, Bernard, if you are reading this, and you agreed with to a mason fake claim, please stop. And. Don't let that be a thing.)
This post assumes too many things.
It's possible that Roden is one of Rose/Bernard and is informed that the other is not in the game. Maybe mafia are given a list of flavors that are not in the game. Maybe he just made it up after all.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:50 am
by Lukewarm
In post 4029, Dunnstral wrote: In post 4021, Lukewarm wrote:He hard flavor claimed Rose and hard flavor claimed his mason partner as Bernard.
Doing it that way would be risky as hell if it were faked. Either by not being Rose or by Bernard not being a mason with him.
The only way it would make sense if faked would be if he is in private communication with Bernard.
So, the possible scenarios, imo are:
1)Roden is a mason with Bernard.
2)Roden is a neighbor with Bernard, and the two of the collectively agreed to fake claim masons
3)Roden is scum with Bernard.
3 seems unlikely, as that would imply that when the alignments of the player list was randed Rose and Bernard both happened to rand as scum
2, I guess could be happening, but I feel like most players would distrust that idea intrinsically. (Although, Bernard, if you are reading this, and you agreed with to a mason fake claim, please stop. And. Don't let that be a thing.)
This post assumes too many things.
It's possible that Roden is one of Rose/Bernard and is informed that the other is not in the game. Maybe mafia are given a list of flavors that are not in the game. Maybe he just made it up after all.
Hmm.
I did not consider the possibility that scum would know what flavor not present in the game.
Thinking about it now, I would guess that that would not be something that StD would have done. Since flavor is not tied to alignment, all scum should be safe to true claim their flavor, and would not need that bonus information.
So, yeah. I did not consider it before, however my inclination is still to believe the claim.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:53 am
by Lukewarm
My impression is that from most to least likely
Roden is a Mason > Roden is a neighbor, with someone who agreed to let him claim mason to save himself because they town read him > Roden is a scum non-neighbor thinking it is safe to claim mason here.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:57 am
by Lukewarm
I am also starting to lean towards it being the right call for bernard to claim.
But, want to think on it more before committing to pushing that agenda.
Roden, what are your thoughts on whether Bernard should claim today, and if you think he doesn't what do you think about the no-flip messiness or how to avoid it
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:58 am
by Lukewarm
I actually think that most other people should not comment on this anymore, until after Roden does.
Every person commenting on it so far is kind of claiming Not Bernard.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 2:59 am
by Off The Hook
In post 4026, Lukewarm wrote: In post 4018, Off The Hook wrote: In post 4012, Lukewarm wrote:Masons in a game without flips feels like it could be messy, but I don't actually know the best way to try to avoid the messiness :/
idk i dont think its all that messy
if we play our cards right
enchant just instantly accepting it at facevalue is a bit weird though
What were you thinking about when you said play our cards right?
not thinking snything lol
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:00 am
by Lukewarm
In post 4032, Lukewarm wrote:Roden, what are your thoughts on whether Bernard should claim today, and if you think he doesn't what do you think about the no-flip messiness or how to avoid it
This should actually be what are your thoughts on these questions, and what are bernards.
You should probably also relay his answers
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:03 am
by Enchant
In post 4020, Dunnstral wrote:I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.
no (no (no))
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:06 am
by Off The Hook
dont u feel lile enchants acting weird around this
its like he instantly believed roden and now hes defending rodens partner
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:07 am
by Lukewarm
Am more surprised by 4036 then by instantly believing a mason claim.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:08 am
by Off The Hook
In post 4037, Off The Hook wrote:dont u feel lile enchants acting weird around this
its like they instantly believed roden and now theyre defending rodens partner
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:09 am
by Off The Hook
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:10 am
by Lukewarm
He seems like a nice enough guy
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:12 am
by ProfessorDrapion
In post 4023, Lukewarm wrote: In post 4020, Dunnstral wrote:I think that a second mason should step forward or Roden should die. I am willing to discuss this before leaping to action.
I had this thought as well, but then was unsure if that actually helped more then it hurt.
That was the basis of me saying that I did not really know how to avoid the messiness
This is Town.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:12 am
by Off The Hook
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:13 am
by Lukewarm
For his alignment, I have no idea.
I had a general thought really early in the game that his fake claim of being a rock felt more like a joke he would make as town then as scum. Which, since I have a hard time ever finding a reason to think a thought about enchants alignement, it gave him a "good enough for day 1" read.
But then this day 1 felt like it has lasted an eternity, and that feels so long ago, he has kinda just slid back to null
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:13 am
by ProfessorDrapion
BTW if Enchanted is Mason, Hook is Rand Wolf and should at least be 1 of the main wagons.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:13 am
by ProfessorDrapion
Doesn’t have to be a top wagon but should be pressured.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:14 am
by ProfessorDrapion
It’s a skill you may or may not have.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:14 am
by Lukewarm
That was sarcasm at the fact that you asked if I liked him instead of asking me if I thought he was town.
So I answered that I he seems like a nice enough guy.
i.e., I like him as a person / player on site.
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2022 3:15 am
by Off The Hook
drapion whyd u say enchant is mason? i dont see anything that leans towards that?