Mafiascum.net

In post 4084, Aj The Epic wrote:Muffin, if you noticed, I took a very active role day 1 and was present the majority of the time around Mala and Rach.

In post 1203, Aj The Epic wrote:

Seriously, though: The writing is on the wall that Mala is scum this game.

I didn't realize that I became so damn outspoken when I had caught scum. The FTL thing was not TvT, that's a terrible assumption. Unfortunately, I'm probably going to end up on my second choice (nick) because I have two townreads and a conftown there right now.

(I thought this would be slightly more obvious than it was in hindsight, though I didn't really want to go blatant hint cop, draw a real claim and get the town in a whole shitton of trouble. I used an old religious reference of death after a truthful telling to reference where I'd go [hand of god, stated that he was displeased with Belshazzar, killed the King for his sins being to stating displeasure and going to get a guilty read] My major attempt was to make a soft hint at a possible action going to mala here. Leads to a stronger hint:)

In post 1328, Aj The Epic wrote:Apparently, however, you have enough support that unless I really wanted to ram this case down everyone's throat, I'm just wasting my time on you.

I will be going for something more solid

. But Mala, inwardly you have to know this isn't your town game.

In post 1597, Aj The Epic wrote:Mastin, who do you suggest we lynch first, then? Mala, since she has the strongest associative tells?

(I also was thinking of some of the nacho-relations that didn't make me feel too good about the slot, but I was thinking I was jumping at shadows to have him tied to Rach. I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it).

Out of your reads, I think Andrius is wrong. It's Rach's counterwagon and Rach IS the connection to which everyone else (other than Nick, I really haven't found a place for him yet) fits. I really think today's lynch is rach or mala, then the other the next day.

P-edit: Mala, you tie to Rach, not nacho. If Nacho flipped scum, Rach still has to flip to incriminate you. And vice versa.

Mastin, walk me through Nick's connections and THEN we can talk about taking him first. Rach is my candidate right now, because if you're also seeing Nacho, she sticks at the center of this web.


...............Andrius
..................|
Mala-Rach-Nacho
...|.......|
...|---Venmar

And then Nick's all by himself. That's why I don't get why go to nick first. Sure the wagons help a bit, but I think that's a little more random than actual textual interaction.

This was me trying to see if Nick was

our traitor.

I couldn't find any real connection between him and the rest, and so I wanted to see if Mastin had an idea. Also, on the day 2 when he didn't go after mala with a case, I couldn't word that he might've been the mafia traitor without having to explain my own role in relation. It made sense to me, though, as the day went on. I had scum read him for a long time, he didn't seen to have any connections to mala yet flipped on her and the refused a case. So in my head, I had the traitor who felt he was owned and didn't want to drag a partner he may have known about down. Even without possibly knowing his partner, Mala was as good a guess as any for scum at that point and it was best for him not to tear at his own team.

In post 2999, Aj The Epic wrote:

Do I think Nick is scum? I wouldn't be surprised if he was. His posting hasn't been fantastic (As I will expand upon seeing as you so kindly asked) but it would be a little bit of a curve ball to my own thinking if he turned up scum. Throughout, as I've stated, his only consistent interactions with town reads are Bro and TD, both of which I have at varying degrees of town.

So after quoting through his iso, I found one post on top of what I saw that I really didn't like before (it's the last one in this, and I believe it's out of order so I can address it a bit more)

Spoiler:

In post 1386, nickthename wrote:@1381
Wow, you managed to make an entire reads list without saying or committing to anything. Scummy, although I don't know the meta, maybe this is par for the course.

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though, but if she keeps sitting on the fence day 2 i'll most certainly want to lynch her then.

In post 1380, Venmar wrote:We should be lynching Mastin

This.

Alright. This is part of the two-post important special for Nick and the main foundation of anything I have for him. First, we see he DISLIKES Rach's read list (which, fyi, is worse than anything Mastin put up this game), but denies that Rach is a good d1 lynch, saying they should be lynching mastin (off of wagon support formed from that '5 scum' comment mastin had). But,

In post 2345, nickthename wrote:I don't understand the Andrius case and don't like this idea of lynching Rach today. That said, I'd prefer Rach to nothing, so I guess I'll vote her, unless something convinces me Andrius is scum, which is actually possible, since I perhaps if someone actually explains that case I'll understand it.

In post 1504, nickthename wrote:

In post 1485, Nachomamma8 wrote:

I don't think Rach is a very good D1 lynch though

Why not?

Rach hasn't provided much content at all today, her reads sit on the fence so hard it's ver difficult to tell what she thinks of anyone. However, she has promised better reads and commentary day 2.

I agree that her behavior today has been scummy,

but hear me out.

Assume for the sake of argument that she doesn't provide any useful content during the rest of Day 1, which I think is a fairly passable assumption considering her current behavior.
During day 2, if she still fails to provide any useful content, we lynch her.
If she does provide useful content day 2, we should be able to use that content to get a more accurate read on her. If we decide she's town, we avoid a mislynch. If scum, we still lynch her, but now we have her better reads to use against her partners.

---

It's plainly obvious to me that a mac lynch isn't going to happen, so i'm in favor of a mastin lynch.

His reads look very artificial

, mimicking popular town ideas without providing any decent reasons, and his posts are largely useless and fluffy, either in the form of talking about how towny he is, talking about

how he has secret reads he won't tell us

, or talking about how he's lying about how confident he is. This comes accross to me as scum trying to look engaged while lacking any real scumhunting.

As to Andy, I need to Iso him again, if anyone could post a non-meta based case against him, that would be nice.

Bad all around. First, he suggests leaving a 'scummy player' around to get a better read on her. He suggests multiple times he sees her as scummy, but doesn't want her dead day 1. Now with her flip, I can almost tie Nick to Rach just for this. He's protecting a buddy. More than that, he's giving her a chance at a free pass in his mind, in favor of a mastin lynch which is made worse by his three expressed reasons.

1: Artificial reads. This really isn't true. Mastin had been giving and re-explaining reads all day. Plus, as mentioned by me (and Nick!) Rach's reads are awful. Terrible amounts of coaching would've gone on in the scum qt had Rach lived.
2: Lying about confidence. Come on, I explained this: You don't employ LaL for this.
3. Looking engaged, no scum hunting: Mastin was the first to voice that he thought Nacho/Rach could be a thing. He admitted that he was having trouble with this game at the begining and Nick has unfairly tried to pin this as an issue when, guess what, Rach had the same issue without ever trying to fix it. This post willingly admits that Nick has a connection to Rach.

Most importantly here, I was trying to find a way to bend Nick:Rach without saying "I think Nick is a traitor who possibly knows his partners and they don't know him" because that sounds stupid. He asserted Mala to be town with low interaction between them day 1. It turns out it was just an honest read, but I had that tagged as him supporting mala when her wagon had the least support. Rach was more obvious tying, as he took a weird "I can agree with lynching rach later" stance that I associated with "I can steer a lynch off today". And it, to me, made perfect sense why no one seemed to reciprocate anything to nick. (Oh, anything in green was me pointing out more to this post specifically)

In post 3457, Aj The Epic wrote:It could, but it could also mean scum have leashed him in favor of keeping Mala alive. His case is delayed even with school (spoiler: 50% of this game is probably in school or college right about now) and I have a feeling it's going to come over really weak or mirroring one of the cases that has already been said. Though, you know as well as I do it isn't a hard task to find scummy posts in Mala's iso.

In post 3660, Aj The Epic wrote:So FTL, now that Nick is 'playing against his wincon', what is your read on him? I figured as much for him not having anything for Malascum... but here's what's odd: He still holds that Mala is his strongest scum read. Even though he's too lazy/can't be bothered for a case like he promised for basically the last five days and stalled this day to hell and back. I think this is basically the nail confirming nick as scum.

Again, I was trying to suggest there was a connection without ever suggesting mala had reason to defend nick. To me, it made more sense if Nick WAS a traitor that he'd decide to stall out and hope for the best when he might've been infringing on his own team's plan. Everything he did was so non-committed with Mala, I felt as if he didn't no where to go that wouldn't hurt the team more. Theoretically, as traitor, Nick's hands would've been tied and he wouldn't have been able to make a move without seriously endangering his team, hence the 'leash' comment. Plus, Nick town reading mala and suddenly flipping when his wagon started seemed like more of an attempt to save mala than his own life.


Bro, it was a tad obvious Mutt was lying... Just the fact of a one shot vig in a large game with only one fraction would make this game take forever even with lynches and night kills consistent. Plus, I've never seen a one shot vig in a game this large. I suspect that he stayed alive more because scum didn't categorize him as a threat when he was away and inactive the majority of D2's latter half.

our traitor

our traitor

In post 4102, Malakittens wrote:Aj is solid town.

In post 4103, Andrius wrote:Mala, Ghost is town.

In post 1611, Aj The Epic wrote:'If Skull is scum' is crazy weak for the theory we have here.

Thez, I know. I think Rach is the ideal lynch. All the major roots extend from her, and she hasn't proven anything useful. Mala will be incriminated, I get my lynch, and we then proceed to wreck the scum team.

In post 4074, Aj The Epic wrote:

In post 4033, waynegg wrote:AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

In post 4109, waynegg wrote:

In post 4103, Andrius wrote:Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

In post 4085, Faster Than Light wrote:

@AJ

: I really like this post. It makes sense if I'm reading it correctly. However, I'm confused about a few things;

What the fuck does a traitor do? (Wiki says they can't do any QT chat/make kills, but is there something I'm missing?)
Does the scum team know if they have a traitor? The way you're writing about it makes it seem like they don't, but the wiki says sometimes the scum-team does.
What's your basis for saying there must be a traitor? Is it solely based in the fact you've never seen these PRs without a traitor to counterbalance them? How the fuck does a traitor even counterbalance them?
So... Nick's not a traitor, so what does that mean for us now?

The only reason I'd see for scum to keep Muttley alive is that his first shot hit town. It's clear that he wasn't a good judge of who to shoot, from an alignment standpoint. Getting two kills in one night? Seems pretty damn appealing, despite the risks.

Where I'm at right now, I'm really damn hesitant to believe you, AJ. How do I know you're not a 1-shot bulletproof Traitor, and all the crumbs you've had are false-crumbs so you could claim BP at this moment? This whole traitor thing out of nowhere feels out of left-field, because I'm not seeing much reason for you to figure that there's a traitor in the game unless you absolutely knew it--what's here doesn't seem like speculation, either. The easiest way I see to know it is if you are actually the traitor. Then again, I don't really know how the fuck that role works, or what a one-shot BP // Multi-shot Vig would entail that'd make you so sure there'd be a traitor in this game.

Does that make sense?

-V

In post 4079, Andrius wrote:

mastin wrote:Yup. I live between Snohomish (the city! not the county!) and Monroe, in what I believe is called "The Foothills". My address is considered Snohomish, but I have much stronger associations with Monroe. (Mainly, because there's more in Monroe for me to be attached to. )

I only ask because there's this thing we call seattlemeet that happened every so often. The more I think about it, the more I think it should happen today.

In post 4109, waynegg wrote:

In post 4103, Andrius wrote:Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

In post 4088, Nachomamma8 wrote:Mastin, why is Venmar town?

In post 4078, Malakittens wrote:Please do point out to why it's different.

In post 4040, mastin2 wrote:Focus, Mastin, focus. We can't lynch this today, tempting as it is. We'll have to wait 'til D5.


For the record--this is not what I remember of a town-Mala being mislynched. Granted, I don't have much experience with a town-Malakittens being mislynched (Mind-reader Mafia is the only one to come to mind, and I don't really remember it all too well), but I distinctly recall that a town-Mala being mislynched puts in :effort: which I am entirely lacking in seeing from her. Yeah, she'll have AtE as well, but she gives a much greater fight than what I've been seeing from her.

In post 4041, BROseidon wrote:

In post 4000, Desperado wrote:Because you are making a conditional statement (If Mala is scum, I am not) and then applying the statement in a way to make you appear to be town without satisfying the condition first. It's really underhanded.

And scum don't exist in a vacuum, but what constitutes scum-scum interaction and how associative tells actually work are just about the most subjective aspect of mafia in my opinion, and the argument that because you've been FOSing Mala since day one, you couldn't possibly be scum together, does not align with my perspective. Do you honestly believe that a Mala scum flip would clear you as town?

Re the first paragraph:

In post 3936, BROseidon wrote:Also, muffin and mastin, you are scumreading both me and Mala.

You would have to conclude that I've been hard-bussing the slot all game.

Is this correct, and would you still push for me tomorrow if Mala flips scum?

This is not a defense. This is me trying to gauge where other people stand (also, this wasn't addressed to you and you felt compelled to respond to it. Why?). That you paint this as me defending myself when, at best, it's an incredibly indirect defense, compared to the insane amount of actual defense I have done over the past two days is extremely scummy.

Second, this entire game is subjective. I'm not saying, "OMG I SCUMREAD MALA EARLY THEREFORE CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER." What I'm

asking

is "does this look like S/S interaction to you."

A Mala scumflip only clears me as town if enough people think that it wasn't a S/S interaction. I'm not going to argue more than that.

In post 4047, mastin2 wrote:

Mod: if an X-shot role is roleblocked, is their shot refunded?

Wayne, you should check to make sure your shot was used up. I'm running through the possibilities, between roleblocker (a fairly likely scum role in the game), *OTHERS REDACTED*, but needless to say, aside from the roleblocker possibility, none of these bode well for Aj at all.
(Oh, and even in the case of a roleblocker, still not great. )

In post 4050, BROseidon wrote:Mastin, why would wayne being blocked bode poorly for AJ?

In post 4074, Aj The Epic wrote:

In post 4033, waynegg wrote:AJ ~
Just two questions.

What's your definition of "to incriminate"?

Why were you bulletproof N2?

I personally prefer lexical definitions, and as such: To make one appear guilty of a specific crime.

Considering that there's about no chance of you being scum, I mine as well just claim. I'm a one shot bullet proof townie, who actively tried to get shot night 1 to remove that benefit. I wanted to remove any ambiguity because I had/have strong reasons to believe a traitor exists in this game and my role's job was to add a counterbalance to it. Not only do I have a strong reason to suspect much, but this is generally the key reason a bullet proof townie is added in (I can point a few games I was in recently with the same role).

Unfortunately, I received no notification to recognize anyone having removed this from me. I can, however, show a trail of crumbs I left to try to get this removed and how it has affected my logical progression through the game.

In post 4083, BROseidon wrote:

In post 4077, mastin2 wrote:Well, there's a minor logical jump involved. If wayne's slot was blocked, then they were blocked for a reason. If they were blocked for a reason, then it's typically because they had a reason to be blocked. One reason to block a claimed 1-shot vig who's taken a shot is that you fear scum will be hit and the vig was lying about being 1-shot.

Except I ISO'd Mutt to see if he left any indication of who he'd have targeted next. I found nothing. He spent all of day two with "I SHOT MY WHOLE LOAD ON SAKI LAWL."

So why would scum be afraid of him hitting again if 1) He'd claimed 1-shot and 2) There was no indication of who he'd target next if he were lying, and would thus be more likely to hit town than scum.

In post 4088, Nachomamma8 wrote:TOWN:
notscience
waynegg
Faster Than Light
Ghostlin
Mac
mastin2
Muffin

Lean town:
Andrius
Trust Fund
AJ
Venmar?
BROseidon

LEFTOVERS:
Malakittens
TiphaineDeath

These are my reads. Towngroup is obviously the strongest.
Mastin, why is Venmar town?

In post 4118, Desperado wrote:The tone of the bolded sentence is clearly meant to imply a defense

In post 4119, Malakittens wrote:I'm giving effort, but this time it's not walls. Styles change, people change.

In post 4111, zMuffinMan wrote:Whenever I read wayne's posts, I find myself asking, "is he confused, or am I?"

In post 4111, zMuffinMan wrote:

In post 4109, waynegg wrote:

In post 4103, Andrius wrote:Mala, Ghost is town.

Why?

Because WE said so.

In post 4111, zMuffinMan wrote:

In post 4088, Nachomamma8 wrote:Mastin, why is Venmar town?

Because he is. That's as much as you're getting, and as much as you're ever getting.

In post 4117, Aj The Epic wrote:This requires another spoiler. Inside, I have responses to FTL, Muffin, and kinda Mac...

In post 4118, Desperado wrote:And how was what TF said wildly different?

In post 4120, Malakittens wrote:I'm going with Thezmon's read on him which I think them playing offsite he would know how to read him better than the rest of it.