And? I could say the same thing about parama/sad (decent odds of a scum between them), and the same "why aren't you voting one of them" logic would apply, would it not?
I suppose you can make the case that there seems to be a stronger likelihood wrt pie v you (with a realistic outcome of kagami flipping red if you're town), although by the same logic, why aren't you voting for me/pie or kagami?
Ps I actually agree w the idea of jester being force replaced at this point
Am willing to UNVOTE: pending that resolution.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:23 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 4150, mhsmith0 wrote:And? I could say the same thing about parama/sad (decent odds of a scum between them), and the same "why aren't you voting one of them" logic would apply, would it not?
I'm not sure on Kagami. That's why I'm trying to get discussion going instead of getting into a slapfight
I'm willing to vote for you/pieguy as well. I think I'd rather get HS/Parama today because I'm decently sure of scum in there and seeing "which one flips scum" is pretty important
In post 4150, mhsmith0 wrote:And? I could say the same thing about parama/sad (decent odds of a scum between them), and the same "why aren't you voting one of them" logic would apply, would it not?
I'm not sure on Kagami. That's why I'm trying to get discussion going instead of getting into a slapfight
I'm willing to vote for you/pieguy as well. I think I'd rather get HS/Parama today because I'm decently sure of scum in there and seeing "which one flips scum" is pretty important
I'd be super surprised to see HS flip scum, but if that happens, I'd say pies scum equity goes a lot higher. Will think on parama.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:06 pm
by Dunnstral
Yea and so does Kagami's ^
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:09 pm
by Dunnstral
Do you agree that there's likely scum in HS/Parama?
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:38 pm
by mhsmith0
I'd be super surprised to see HS flip scum, but if that happens, I'd say pies scum equity goes a lot higher. Will think on parama.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:46 pm
by pieguyn
Dunn is either scum, or incredibly lazy.
he is continuing to push me over my read progression on my Jester/Parama/mhsmith reads from end of D1 to today. when I explain to him why my reads progressed in the way that they did, he... ignores me, and then continues to push it anyway. I hope I don't need to explain why this is scummy, but since I don't even know with this game, it is a fairly typical scum tactic to ignore arguments for why your push is wrong and continue to push it anyway - town on the other hand would be legitimately forming reads and would at least consider it either way, not just continue to push for the sake of having a push (either by thinking it didn't hold water and offering a counter-argument, or thinking that it does and factoring it into their read in some way or another).
his only engagement with mhsmith/me's interaction at the end of D1 was "don't think anything was faked, still think there's scum in it", AFTER I explicitly asked him about it, and nothing while it was actually going on. there's a complete lack of critical thinking here and it doesn't read like he saw that and actually legitimately had that thought, it reads like he came up with an excuse not to have to engage and reevaluate his push after I brought it up.
on top of that I just think his posts today have been really nitpicky and shallow; I said this in a previous post and he's still doing it.
can people who have town reads on Dunn explain why?
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 pm
by pieguyn
scout is doing the same too, ftr, but he at least just appears to be lazy, not scum.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:50 pm
by pieguyn
In post 4072, Human Sequencer wrote:I still strongly believe that one of {parama, arthur} is scum. If it's not arthur, it's 100% Parama.
By which you called her town without reason, pushed on my badly, and never voted us
because i thought they were probably town. i glazed over their posts because i thought there were bigger fish to fry, E.G shadow/mariar who I thought were obvscum. i was wrong.
i never voted you because i thought kagami was town, i didn't think you were scummy enough to warrant lynching and your wagon had no support anyway, so i'd effectively be on a vanity wagon.
By which you called her town without reason, pushed on my badly, and never voted us
because i thought they were probably town. i glazed over their posts because i thought there were bigger fish to fry, E.G shadow/mariar who I thought were obvscum. i was wrong.
i never voted you because i thought kagami was town, i didn't think you were scummy enough to warrant lynching and your wagon had no support anyway, so i'd effectively be on a vanity wagon.
hoo boy
So you won't even talk about us if we "have no support" when the day dragged on forever?
I'm calling you out on that. You claimed you thought you were going to die. No reason you wouldn't out your reads as town.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:14 pm
by pieguyn
Kagami, whenever you arrive can you talk to me about what you think about Dunn's behavior this game day?
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:15 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 4164, pieguyn wrote:Kagami, whenever you arrive can you talk to me about what you think about Dunn's behavior this game day?
first off, you have tried to push me for "making up reasons to lynch other people without outright defending mhsmith". thing with this is, I think I've documented the reasoning behind my scum reads on Jester and Parama pretty well in-thread - I've wanted to lynch Jester for forever, and after S_S' flip, I've covered that I think Parama's pushes this game have all been forced. if you think I'm making up either of these reads then you should be able to argue the point - point out what in my reasoning looks "made up" and try to probe me for more info if you think I haven't explained it well enough.
also, about my read on mhsmith, I told you in a post specifically directed to you that it's obvious why I have reason to question the read on him if you look at his posts at the end of D1, and you didn't give any response to it. the only thing you even mentioned that was related to this was that you didn't think our interaction was a town tell either way, but again, you don't point out what in my approach looks "made up" or why it's unreasonable for town-me to want to lay off of him for a bit even if I'm not 100% on him being town - the way I approached it was perfectly reasonable and if you were to attempt to bullshit a reason for it being made up you'd look like obvscum, so ignoring it is really your only option if you want to spin the way I'm approaching mhsmith as disingenuous.
instead of attempting to engage me on either of these points, you attempt to nitpick and push over things like pairs not interacting with each other, the fact that I had previously agreed with your mhsmith read (... duh, my read on him is in flux now so obviously I no longer agree with your read), calling my push effectively an OMGUS - and before you ask, no, this is not a scum tell and I think you're a smart enough player to realize that I take issue with the reasoning and behavior with which you're going about the read on me, not just "ur pushing me, ur scum". I've pointed this out, too, the point about OMGUS in particular, and nothing.
second, I've asked you multiple times why it's so problematic for you that I want to lynch Jester's pair and Parama's pair if you had scum reads on them yourself, nothing - this seems like a fairly noticeable contradiction in the mindset with which you're approaching this and I'd still like an answer to it.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:41 pm
by pieguyn
also, I'm still not sure what your actual reason for scum reading mhsmith at this point is and your recent posts directed to him have been as nitpick-y as your posts directed to me, so I'd like if you could run me through it again.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:52 pm
by pieguyn
oh, and another thing, if I wanted to defend mhsmith I would defend him.
I don't, and never, cared about things like "no one else is town reading him". the last dance game my partner was universally scum read and I got us to endgame anyway (he was scum, but that's beside the point...) moreover, HS does have a strong town read on him, so what you're saying isn't even true unless she's scum (she isn't).
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:43 pm
by MiniDeathStar
Morning again. Really sorry I couldn't post yesterday. I'll respond with a catch up post in about an hour from now.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:52 pm
by inspectorscout
In post 4159, pieguyn wrote:scout is doing the same too, ftr, but he at least just appears to be lazy, not scum.
'Theyre doing the same but I expressed a townread on one of them so I call one of them scummy lazy and the other one just lazy'
This is again you wanting to keep a more consistent thought progression.
why is nobody voting pie-smith? Please, it's the best wagon.
I think there's scum in parma-HS and I think it would clear things up seeing which it is.
I also think that there is scum in mhsmith-pieguy but I'd prefer the other one
So in the end it's "information lynch" but not really because I'm pretty sure I'm voting scum one way or another
Let's pressure HS
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:29 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 4167, pieguyn wrote:second, I've asked you multiple times why it's so problematic for you that I want to lynch Jester's pair and Parama's pair if you had scum reads on them yourself, nothing - this seems like a fairly noticeable contradiction in the mindset with which you're approaching this and I'd still like an answer to it.
I explained why I didn't want to lynch Jester pair.... maybe. It might have been in the PT.
I'd be completely fine with you voting HS-parama with me.
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:31 pm
by Dunnstral
Kagami's kind of feeling off to me again and I don't want to vote what she's pushing right now - being jester pair (to her annoyance I'm sure) because I feel like if she's scum and pushing a t-t pair scum would win off of that (not literally but we wouldn't be able to 'do it')
