Mafiascum.net

Also, note all you want. I'm probably dying tonight so I'm not trying particularly hard to pussyfoot around people anymore. This is the situation. Deal with it. You can't have it both ways.

I think more than one person will rezz VP. I also think that cult probably won't want to forfeit another kill (if they did last night) and will ritual someone out of this murder rezz loop. But that's just my conjecture I guess. If the set up Gods insist that we can't rezz VP then I guess so be it. What I am seeing a lot of in this game is being scared of night, we are trying to control every last little thing and it is just impossible. The mods made this set up so well that there is a counter argument to everything.

I was tempted to say lets lynch TNM, but I realized that if he had claimed a stalk on practically anyone else I would have said “go though with it” As much as I love VP he can't be a special case.

~Sotty

If VP rezzes someone, then cult can't ritual kill him. If he flips ritual'd, we know TNM is cult. So in fact, by having VPB rez someone, we actually save his life if TNM is cult.

Okay wait, can you explain that to me?

~Sotty

AurorusVox wrote:If VP rezzes someone, then cult can't ritual kill him. If he flips ritual'd, we know TNM is cult. So in fact, by having VPB rez someone, we actually save his life if TNM is cult.

Or they could just ritual me for a free kill on TNM.

1a) If TNM is cult, he was probably hoping to use the wifom of "Cult rez'd VPB, that is why he has shown up as ritualed" to explain why he could not murder VPB.
1b) However, if VPB rezzes someone, any rezzes used on him will fail.

2a) Since murder resolves before the ritual, if VPB shows up as ritual'd, it means he was never murdered.
2b) Therefore we know that TNM could not murder, and is cult.
2c) Therefore cult can ONLY kill off VPB by exposing TNM as cult.

3a) Their only hope would be to not kill him and push the scenario of VPB being cult, not rezzing anyone himself, and having his cultbuddy rez him.
3b) Therefore VPB would not die.


Bare in mind though that cult could just make the trade and get rid of VPB at the cost of TNM. This would be a one-for-one trade that catches TNMscum which isn't that bad for town.

Even bare in mind that (3a) could actually be true if everyones' VPB townreads are way off. This is more difficult but is solved by lynching TNM first; and then if he flips town, lynching VPB, so in this scenario it's at worst a one for one trade that catches VPBscum, which isn't that bad for town either.

VP: if cult successfully ritual you,

- if TNM is town, you'll show up as murdered. So we won't mislynch him.
- if TNM is cult, yes, you'll show up as ritual'd but then...well, in this scenario killing TNM is goodthings.

EBWOP: replace "successfully" with "attempt to"

Trilo wrote:What I am seeing a lot of in this game is being scared of night, we are trying to control every last little thing and it is just impossible.

This is the truth. At some point you just have to WIFOM the scum in this setup. I've been trying to say this for a good part of the game. During the day, we need to be talking about who is behaving scummy and why they should be lynched. This is what will catch cult in the game, not planning night actions. The reason for planning night actions is to create a base standard so daytime is a cluster fuck of confusion that the scum have free reign to manipulate.

Trilo wrote:As much as I love VP he can't be a special case.

Life is so unfair.

Seriously though, if TNM is town and is allowed free reign to kill me tonight I'm going to be a little bitter. I don't think I could actually play anymore obv. town than this.

--preview edit--

I understand what AV is saying now. Thinking (and trying not to be biased).

TNM hangs today.

Hito will kill Andrius, so Andrius will rez Hito.

Seacore will kill AV so AV will rezz him.

TNM hangs. Is anyone more town than I? Has anyone called things more correctly this game than I? This is the decision.

Has anyone stated why Plum today? ? ? I keep asking.

As for my all stalk list I'll finalize it later. Moar TNM votes. But sneak preview. If A Kills B and B kills A it is only because noway in hell both A and B are town.

VP Baltar wrote: Life is so unfair.

Seriously though, if TNM is town and is allowed free reign to kill me tonight I'm going to be a little bitter. I don't think I could actually play anymore obv. town than this.

--preview edit--

I understand what AV is saying now. Thinking (and trying not to be biased).

This is just it. I really don't want to see you dead, I mean, you were my consistent rez target. But cold, hard, objectivity states that it has to be this way.

This game...

Well, I'm going to chew on what AV posted and talk it over with Zach. The same logic that is in post 4230 can be applied to all the attempted murders we're planning tonight right, or am I missing something? I can see why the TNM lynch looks good when you combine it with his overall play + the VP stalk. He is the scummiest would-be-murder we got.

But yeah... Going to think this over, will be back later.

~Sotty

Yep, the same logic can be applied, because me and Andy are both rezzing tonight. I used TNM as the example to highlight it because it's VPB rezzing that is the debateable issue. Though if TNM is our lynch today, its only useful in terms of mine and Andy's murder/death.

Thinking about things a little bit. Vox's logic about ressing VP seems sound, but I don't think it necissarily saves VP's life. Mulling over the idea that the only chance to save VP is to actually lynch TNM...

Benmage wrote:TNM hangs today.

Hito will kill Andrius, so Andrius will rez Hito.

Seacore will kill AV so AV will rezz him.

TNM hangs. Is anyone more town than I? Has anyone called things more correctly this game than I? This is the decision.

Has anyone stated why Plum today? ? ? I keep asking.

As for my all stalk list I'll finalize it later. Moar TNM votes. But sneak preview. If A Kills B and B kills A it is only because noway in hell both A and B are town.

I agree with TNM.
I agree with me dying, but why the sudden switch to hito? What will VP do?

No one is more town than thou, Benmage. I am glad to have Warded you the one time I did.

Someone should though. I agree Plum should hang, but not before TNM. Or Feysal/nopoint. Did someone forget we have prob.scum in there?

No, nacho who is more likely town will kill me. While VV who is also more likely town will handle feysal.

Andy: Hito got swapped in because VPB was possibly getting killed tonight anyway so it was pointless having him cleared. Whoever does it, it'll be nice to get the obv-towns proper confirmed town.

I still think, cold-hearted objectively, it makes more sense to have TNM do his kill and lynch someone else today. But if TNM is cult then lynching him today is far superior. I'm not confident enough in TNMscum to say DEFINITELY SCUM but enough to be happy to have him swing.

Lol remember when Ben was going to kill Fate? What happened to those days?

Oh ok. Rezzing hito then.

TNM is cult, AV. We need to get one more cult strung up. No cuddle-time until we string up another cultist.

I remember. It was a long time ago, back when we were young men. Now we are old men filled with regret, waiting to die alone...
/cookie to whoever can tell me where that is from. lol

AurorusVox wrote:Lol remember when Ben was going to kill Fate? What happened to those days?

I agreed not to. Then Fate got two townies modkilled and put the town in a whole to start. Then I caught cult, but others thought it better to lynch town. Now I'm grabbing everyone by the hands and dragging them into the light.

Andrius wrote:I remember. It was a long time ago, back when we were young men. Now we are old men filled with regret, waiting to die alone...
/cookie to whoever can tell me where that is from. lol

I want to say No Country for Old Men, but it's probably not.

Benmage wrote:

AurorusVox wrote:Lol remember when Ben was going to kill Fate? What happened to those days?

I agreed not to. Then Fate got two townies modkilled and put the town in a whole to start. Then I caught cult, but others thought it better to lynch town. Now I'm grabbing everyone by the hands and dragging them into the light.

Yeah. Ah, how things change. I want to leave a legacy of SURGING AWESOME, so I hope my logical plans help somehow.

/goes to lie in a grave

Andrius wrote:I remember. It was a long time ago, back when we were young men. Now we are old men filled with regret, waiting to die alone...
/cookie to whoever can tell me where that is from. lol

Robert Baratheon ASoIaF A Game of Thrones is my first guess...been awhile since I read this book, but it sounds like it would fit.

Oh come on it was obviously Inception.

Nice to see you're still around Kunk.

^Whatever cult knows how to use google.
(Old asian guy, thats right)

I think this was already mentioned but if tmn is allowed to kill VP there is no reason to waste the confirmation attempt on him when we can use it on hito.

I really don't like tmn's stalk on VP. It reeks of scum trying to get called off of a stalk because he chose an obvtownie, and his later admission/worries about his stalk are just appeals to get himself out of it. I'd much rather see tmn hang,
then give cult the opening for a free shot on VP.

Something that came to mind, benmage, what exactly confirmed you, as I don't remember you ever making a successful kill. (Having another paranoid moment, VP did this to me in SAII )