Mafiascum.net

I have not be able to establish preexisting tendancies to the above-mentionned behavior that I noticed twice in this game from Sir inHimshallibe. Actually, his play in this game is strikingly different from what I've noticed in his previous games, both as town and scum. For now, he will remain an esteemable member of our association in my eyes.

Concerning tonight's death, am I the only one thinking both where killed by rapscallions separately, because of their setup ? Indulge a few rambling on my part about this subject.
1. I find it improbable that Sir StrangerCoug was eliminated in the use of his ability, since a bodyguard that would not protect anyone, and that would die in the attempt without injuring anyone would be undeserving of the title of gentleman.
2. As our welcoming (but sadly dead) guest took the effort to assert, the gun is the weapon of choice for gentlemen, and thus a kill from a gentleman vigilante would, in my mind, would not be described as "most foul".
3. The opening scene describes our host's murder as "fashionable". That would indicate that he was actually killed with a gun, and as such that at least one of the imposters is in possession of such a weapon.
Conclusion : I am weighing up the assumption that the imposters might have two ways to carry out their villainy : a safer way which involves a gun, and a second, more risky or restricted one that allows them to murder two persons a night.

Edit : I see Sir inHimshallibe is in line with at least a small part of my argumentation.

ToastyToast wrote:Sir Hoppster--I am pretty much shocked by his stance on TS. I cannot mention any games in particular, but I can mention the fact that you hydra together. I recognize TS as being a very whimsy player, one who comes of as scummy because of his apparent love for WIFOM. Also, your declaration that he ABSOLUTELY CAN'T BE SCUM. Does TS ordinarily make cases? nope. I have played a game with just Hoppster as well, and got strong town vibes when compared to this game.

Yes, it's true, TS's play is somewhat... 'erratic'.

However, just because Twistedspoon does X as town does not mean he doesn't do X as scum.

There was more to this case, such as the misrepresentation (which I still cannot understand) he did.

lord_hur wrote:1. Following my experience, rapscallions often comment in the post immediately following a kill, because they had a hand in the act and thus have this problematic of the reason for killing in mind. Which Sir Hoppster did.
2. Furthermore, he did not mention the one thing most peculiar about the night : that there were two murders, and not one. This strikes me as quite unfair unless special mechanics are at work, but of course, the actual killers should not be surprised, and indeed would be less likely to mention it. Also about this mass murder, the modus operandi of tonight's deaths is very different from the first one. I think this might be an important clue to guess their abilities.
3. During his most expansive reaction to the late Twistedspoon, Esq.'s death, the only argument he brings forth is OMGUS voting (thus it must be the most important for him), yet I do not find this reason in his message #51, which he claimed regrouped his reasons for voting him.
4. I do not agree with these reasons : while they are indicative of bad play, I do not think these mistakes are more likely to be made by scum than by town.
5. He seemed quite fast in taking Twistedspoon, Esq.'s claim as a miller for acurate. As for me, someone who lied in the past (he did claim a role he has not) I would not have believed him to be gentlemen-aligned right away (even in twilight). Of course, if he knew Twistedspoon, Esq. to be gentlemen-aligned, this reaction would make sense.

And since this is my best lead as of now, I will :

VOTE: Sir Hoppster

Of course, alleviating these concerns might lead me to rescind my vote.

1. Are you suggesting I was involved in both kills?

2. ... what? A post saying "OMG 2 DEATHS" surely would be a scum-tell by your logic in 1. That makes no sense. Further to this, why should I need to mention that there were 2 deaths when everybody can see that? What everybody necessarily see is that they were odd deaths, which is why I pointed it out.

3. This is badly taken out of context. It's not until here (my ISO #54) that I pick up on Twistedspoon's lack of case/OMGUS vote. That comes after my summary in #51.

4. I fail to see how me interpreting posts differently to you makes me a villain.

5. Where do I say I buy the miller claim in paticular? It was more the "WTF HE'S ACTUALLY TOWN" thing that felt like a punch to the face and prompted twilight rage.

VOTE: lord_hur

Weak, weak case. He also leaves himself a nice escape route with his vote, which is rather suspicious.




As I've said, I found both TheLonging and StrangerCoug slightly scummy, so I am thinking that perhaps it was rival scum shooting for each other (having said that, if there were multiple scum factions, I would expect slightly different kill flavour, but eh).

inHimshallibe wrote:I tend to think "Murdered Most Foully" would not be the tag attributed to the kill of a vigilante.

So you think the kills came from a single source? I think there is no kill flavor.

Hoppster wrote:1. Are you suggesting I was involved in both kills?
2. ... what? A post saying "OMG 2 DEATHS" surely would be a scum-tell by your logic in 1. That makes no sense. Further to this, why should I need to mention that there were 2 deaths when everybody can see that? What everybody

couldn't

necessarily see is that they were odd deaths, which is why I pointed it out.
3. This is badly taken out of context. It's not until here (my ISO #54) that I pick up on Twistedspoon's lack of case/OMGUS vote. That comes after my summary in #51.
4. I fail to see how me interpreting posts differently to you makes me a villain.
5. Where do I say I buy the miller claim in paticular? It was more the "WTF HE'S ACTUALLY TOWN" thing that felt like a punch to the face and prompted twilight rage.

1. If you're indeed a rogue, the fact that your side would have done both kills would be a distinct possibility, yes. I don't know enough about the mechanics yet. Are you suggesting you do?
2. Odd deaths to you. I've never, ever seen discussion about scum motivations profit anyone else than scum.
3. You got me for a second. And then, I noticed that in your message #57, you say that you asked for town games finished by Sir Twistedspoon to check if he always OMGUSed at town. That asking happened in your messages #43 and #45, so well before your summary in #51, and of course your #54. Thus, I think you're lying when you said you did not pick up on his alleged OMGUS vote until then.
4. Villains' desire to mislynch sometimes lead to stated reasons that are of lesser quality. I must trust my own judgement to assess these reasons, and it tells me that the reasons you used are indicative rather of bad play than anything else (I can detail why if you so wish).
5. So, when someone claims VT, then immediately thereafter claims miller, it does not give you the slightest doubt about his alignment? I sincerely hope we meet again, and that I'll be scum.

And no, I'm not fully convinced that you're scum, because your struggle with Twistedspoon looked very much like usual town-on-town fight at the start, but I stated my opinion anyway because as only scum are sure about alignment, waiting till certainty would invariably lead to no-voting. Also, saying i'll remove my vote if convinced is just saying I'm rational and not prone to tunnelling.

TS seemed to play scummy, I see nothing in hopster's interactions with him. The end comments by sir hopster about HE CAN'T BE TOWN, do not set well with me though.

As for the NK speculation, I highly doubt the two kills came from the same faction. Same kill flavor for all kills is a possibility, which means we may have a third party, second scum team, or a vig. Vigs can still murder--in fact, they do.

@Hoppster: see this alleged misrep came off as an honest mistake for me, something that could easily have been missed. As such, I think there were better people to go after. I also remember the few contradictions TS made in speaking, but feel he was only singled out for making them because a majority of the players were focussing purely on the Hoppster-TS discussion.

Lord_Hur's post about Hoppster rubs me a little the wrong way, but Hoppsters reasons for voting him are equally as weak. Could be some buss action goin' on.

I feel like I'm missing something about the Hoppster-TS discussion, so I'm going to have to look back at the whole misrep issue.

Another day has begun, and I see two of our esteemed members have lost their lives overnight. I confess I am surprised by this, as I did not think our number was large enough for two nightly deaths. I would hazard a guess that one or the other killer may be limited in some fashion, but since that is unknowable and not helpful to our efforts anyhow, I will let that matter rest.

As regrettable the loss of an honorable gentleman was, I cannot help but feel that if this mislynch had to happen, it was good that it happened on the first day. Had Twistedspoon been investigated and then lynched, his death could have outed the investigator also, who now remains securely hidden. With any luck, in a day or two the investigator will know enough for us to use process of elimination to great effect.

Meanwhile, we need to decide where to go from here. I see Sir Hoppster is being suspected for his involvement in Twistedspoon's death. The question I'm asking myself now is, is he the type of player to tunnel aggressively as mafia? That kind of zeal has the effect of looking very townish to many, but I've met few players bold enough to behave like that as mafia. I will need to look more closely at Sir Hoppster's past. Previously I've focused on his shared past with Twistedspoon, and I am somewhat dismayed that Sir Hoppster would not reconsider his read of Twistedspoon. This is the second time I've seen him pushing for Twistedspoon's eviction from a game, and he appears not to have learned from his failure in reading him the first time.

Something else that caught my eye while I was reading:

ToastyToast [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3050949#p3050949]#416[/url] wrote:Feysal: He brings up a lot of good points, its that simple. Its unfortunate his stance on TS was ignored.

I'm somewhat surprised by this read of myself for good points, considering my vote at the end of yesterday was on kr0b, who ToastyToast replaced.

ToastyToast wrote:Lord_Hur's post about Hoppster rubs me a little the wrong way, but Hoppsters reasons for voting him are equally as weak.

My mustache slighty quivers in fury as I read this. If you think my efforts are so laughable, how about you place a ballot that is not blatant unbacked up OMGUS like your predecessor, then?

I see you have actually placed a ballot, my mistake. I somehow didn't remember anyone voting other than Sir Hoppster and me. As you did more than the vast majority, I unjustly criticized you. I'm still surprised anyone (other than Sir Hoppster, of course) would call my case weak, though.

I encourage others than Sir Hoppster and Sir ToastyToast to place their ballots with due dilligence, so we can do our duty and execute an imposter. Surely there is enough information in yesterday's minutes to be able to do so.

lord_hur wrote:

ToastyToast wrote:Lord_Hur's post about Hoppster rubs me a little the wrong way, but Hoppsters reasons for voting him are equally as weak.

My mustache slighty quivers in fury as I read this. If you think my efforts are so laughable, how about you place a ballot that is not blatant unbacked up OMGUS like your predecessor, then?

If this is a taunt, you aren't going to get anywhere with it. I'm voting Hoppster because my read is stronger on him. Why should I vote you if I think your scum with him? Not sure what the point of this post is.

Sir Cookiebringer, I could not help noticing this is your first game here. Do you have previous experience about this? Do you have any ballot to cast, or any suspicion to voice? I would very much like to hear more of you, as it is necessary for us to assess your belonging in this fine company. And also so we can find the culprits and exit this mansion alive.

Feysal wrote:Something else that caught my eye while I was reading:

ToastyToast [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=3050949#p3050949]#416[/url] wrote:Feysal: He brings up a lot of good points, its that simple. Its unfortunate his stance on TS was ignored.

I'm somewhat surprised by this read of myself for good points, considering my vote at the end of yesterday was on kr0b, who ToastyToast replaced.

Of note is that he ranks me equally highly in his esteem, and I was also voting his predecessor. Is this an attempt to ingratiate his way into good standing amongst us and disarm us with charm and flattery?

You can read into it if you want, But I would have voted kr0b yesterday (apologize for the bit of WIFOM). Over TS, at the least. When my list was completed, someone had to be among the top 3. It just happened that you were both in it, for challenging not only this slot but exploring other possible lynches as well. Much wiser than tunneling twistedspoon.

Yeah, I'm sorry about not posting. I have 5 or 6 other games I'm tending to, as well as ASL tutoring and work.

Let me read. I have questions I need to answer.

Hoppster wrote:Where has TS shown any sign of information-hunting, I must ask?

Theoretically, yes, posting in the way he is could be a way of seeking information and it could be his motivation. But read his posts and tell me: do you honestly believe this is the case?

ISO TS.

I'd like you to explain to me whether or not you feel the following posts of his were information-hunting posts or not:

7, 10, 15, 19, 20, 25, 29

We'll start off with these posts at the moment. Why did you believe they were fake, if so? You want me to answer whether I "honestly believe" that he was information hunting.

Yeah, the argument could have been made saying "Well, he's only creating questions to make it seem like he's scumhunting", but looking at these questions, they fit both town and scum motivation and that point is just a complete null. I don't think your justification of lynching him was sincere.

DemonHybrid wrote:

Hoppster wrote:Where has TS shown any sign of information-hunting, I must ask?

Theoretically, yes, posting in the way he is could be a way of seeking information and it could be his motivation. But read his posts and tell me: do you honestly believe this is the case?

ISO TS.

I'd like you to explain to me whether or not you feel the following posts of his were information-hunting posts or not:

7, 10, 15, 19, 20, 25, 29

We'll start off with these posts at the moment. Why did you believe they were fake, if so? You want me to answer whether I "honestly believe" that he was information hunting.

Yeah, the argument could have been made saying "Well, he's only creating questions to make it seem like he's scumhunting", but looking at these questions, they fit both town and scum motivation and that point is just a complete null.

I don't think your justification of lynching him was sincere.

This was pretty obvious for as much reaching as Hoppster did. Town-tell though, imo. TS eventually condemned himself to others.

inHimshallibe wrote: I don't think your justification of lynching him was sincere.[/b]

This was pretty obvious for as much reaching as Hoppster did. Town-tell though, imo. TS eventually condemned himself to others.[/quote]
You state this as a fact, Sir inHimshallibe, but I am really curious as to what was so condemning in your eyes.

Well, I must say I am a trifle embarrassed to have overlooked these two posts.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2989171
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2989293

Hoppster: what, exactly, changed?

Sir imaginality, am I experiencing visions, or did you really place the ballot that was fatal to Sir Twistedspoon whithout any backing reason? Because I do not classify any kind of emotion as acceptable reason for a real gentleman.

inHimshallibe wrote:Well, I must say I am a trifle embarrassed to have overlooked these two posts.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2989171
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2989293

Hoppster: what, exactly, changed?

I must admit you lost me there. What did you see in these minutes?

lord_hur wrote:

inHimshallibe wrote:

I don't think your justification of lynching him was sincere.[/b]

This was pretty obvious for as much reaching as Hoppster did. Town-tell though, imo. TS eventually condemned himself to others.

You state this as a fact, Sir inHimshallibe, but I am really curious as to what was so condemning in your eyes.

Didn't see you in the corner, sir.

Twistedspoon, Esq.'s style of play was not compatible with much of the gentry. He was also rather chatty and pitted himself against Sir Hoppster, which encouraged others to pick sides between the two. Of the two, Hoppster presented better sounding arguments, and so garnered more support against his rival. With a deadline looming, there was even more reason to choose between Sir Hoppster and Twistedspoon, Esq., and so his poor play doomed himself to the shooting line.

I was not encouraged to vote for Twistedspoon, Esq. until what I perceived to be his ultimate pratfall, which was the whole backtracking of vernacular regarding Information Instead of Analysis.

lord_hur wrote:

inHimshallibe wrote:Well, I must say I am a trifle embarrassed to have overlooked these two posts.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2989171
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2989293

Hoppster: what, exactly, changed?

I must admit you lost me there. What did you see in these minutes?

Great Scot!

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2989226

Sir Hoppster takes away his banter with Twistedspoon, Esq. to focus on a policy execution of Sir V. Piraka, and then in his next post decides that's not such a grand idea after all, instead claiming his initial vote on Twistedspoon, Esq. was indeed a better one?

I admit, with the speculation rampant on the Night Killings and this possible link between Sirs Hoppster and V. Piraka, it may be time for our Texan gentleman to... well, to be polite... "eat lead."