Mafiascum.net

UNVOTE: Tierce, she's probtown.

I'm pretty tired right now, but I'm interested in this Airick wagon as well. Will look into it once I can think better.

↑ Tierce wrote:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:2) But considering you were more confident of CD/Leon being scum, shouldn't they have been one of the one's you lynched?
My logic may be a bit off, but wouldn't lynching the more likely to be scum be better then the scum based on another player being scum?

No. Sometimes one does not vote the strongest scumread--voting the scumread whose flip gives

more

information can be a good decision. The point of the game isn't just to lynch scum, it is to eliminate

all

the scum. If we had lynched Cheery Dog and he flipped Town, for example, today we would still be considering a Deltabacon/Leonshade team, and it could lead to another mislynch.

For example, in the just finished Open 453, the Town had narrowed the scum to three people--me and two others. They did not think the other two were scum together, so they lynched

me

first and then hunted for my partner (who was actually neither of the two, but that's beside the point), because the only way the game made sense was with me being scum. That was the logic I was applying to that trio.

To balk:
1. To stop short and refuse to go on: The horse balked at the jump.
2. To refuse obstinately or abruptly: She balked at the very idea of compromise.

OK then, and thanks for the example, that is really quite helpful.

And i probably should have googled balking lol, but thanks for clearing that up (though i won't clear that part up entirely there could be good reason to do so.)

Also realize i didn't change my vote like i planned.

Here and reading.

↑ Tierce wrote:Alright, let's tackle this:

↑ JasonWazza wrote:But i'm kinda confused with the kill, Tierce is leading the charge mostly in this game so most scum would have likely killed her (not to mention she is the IC that is like newb kill central) yet she is still alive, which makes me concerned for 3 reasons
1) The obv-town read on my slot may not be from experience but a mix of experience and prior knowledge
2) That she lead a lynch on Delta, even though she said it was more likely to be scum in CD/Leon
3) Is steering as far away from a CD/Leon lynch in her recent posting.

All this makes me think that the scum are in CD/Leon/Tierce, cause Tierce would then have reason to steer lynches away from the 2 slots.

With all that crap out, i am somewhat confident in this vote

VOTE: Tierce

1) Not much I can tell you on that one except that you are wrong, and that while I have remarked on such newbie Towntells before as scum, being aware that they exist also helps me spot them as

Town

.

2) Cheery Dog/Leonshade + Deltabacon team was dependent on Deltabacon's flip, as he was the keystone. If my mind goes that the scumteam is either {Deltabacon, Cheery Dog} or {Deltabacon, Leonshade}, I will lynch Deltabacon. Makes perfect sense as a decision in such circumstances.

3) Deltabacon flipped Town and I am not convinced BT/Cheery Dog or ovyo/Leonshade are scum.

↑ Tierce wrote:In the unlikely situation that Deltabacon flips Town, I'd rather explain my plan Tomorrow, not Today. (If I die, lynch one of Cheery Dog/Leonshade; should that one flip Town, lynch the other on D3; then you're on your own to find the last scum.)

Could you try to explain how these two posts are in accordance? I still don't understand.

↑ Tierce wrote:As for the Xalxe and buldermar debacle: please, buldermar. This is a game, and tempers may flare. I am quite certain that Xalxe didn't mean anything personally, and denying us valuable interactions hurts the Town. Save it for post-game. As for you, Xalxe, you should know better. Newbies aren't necessarily thick-skinned and they are trying to learn. Please be kind.

This is indeed a game, and tempers may indeed flare, which is why I gave him an opportunity to apologize. I am quite convinced myself that he deliberately made is personal. I am not denying town valuable interactions, if that's what you're insinuating. I also have no plans of interacting with him post-game.

You must have misunderstood the situation if you got the impression that it is a matter of me being new, or me not being thick-skinned, or me trying to learn. I want to make it perfectly clear that I am not asking for any kind of differentiation with respect to experience level, skill level, tolerance level, learning methods, level of kindness and the like. I don't and will not tolerate personal insults.

I know you aren't asking for differentiation, I was simply explaining that Newbie games are usually handled quite differently in what is expected behavior from experienced players. The goal is the same (win the game), but putting off people who are not used to the site (and some egos) on their first games is something that we do not want to do.


Regarding the above posts: The parenthesis on 282 involved me dying. I did not, I have Townreads on both of them, I have no interest in pursuing a plan that no longer makes any sense given Deltabacon's Townflip.

↑ Tierce wrote:I know you aren't asking for differentiation, I was simply explaining that Newbie games are usually handled quite differently in what is expected behavior from experienced players. The goal is the same (win the game), but putting off people who are not used to the site (and some egos) on their first games is something that we do not want to do.

Alright.

Tierce wrote:I did not say that. I just think your vote is cheap and uses poor justification altogether, as the reasons you are presenting for voting Xalxe are based on math alone and you have long dropped whatever his predecessor did that was bugging you. My conclusion is that you 'lost' interest on an inactive slot because you didn't have weight to make a bus look good there and had rather see a mislynch go through. For someone who so opposed the Deltabacon lynch as you apparently did, there was a remarkable lack of pushing on anyone else, vendetta/Xalxe included. You were not voting at the end of D1.

You are drawing conclusions off a gut feeling. I am drawing conclusions off information that we already know. What more do I need to push on vendetta/Xalxe on? You've said it yourself, I am voting on Xalxe based on math alone. How is that in anyway a cheap vote? I consider it the most justified vote based upon the facts.

I did not join in on your Deltabacon led lynch because I did not think he was scum. If I absolutely believed vendetta was scum at that time, I'd have no reason to unvote him when he was at L-1. I am not interested in finding someone to latch onto and push to lynch them without knowing the evidence. We are here to find scum. It was inevitable Delta was going to be lynched, even Delta would agree with that. I do not have to put a vote down on somebody if I did not believe they were scum when a lynch occurs. When Delta flipped town, it made quite an easy logical read for me.

Airick10 (2) - Tierce, JasonWazza
Leonshade (1) - Xalxe
Xalxe (1) - Airick10
Tierce (0) -
Cheery Dog (0) -
buldermar (0) -
JasonWazza (0) -

No Lynch (0) -

Not voting (3) - buldermar, Cheery Dog, Leonshade

↑ Airick10 wrote:You are drawing conclusions off a gut feeling. I am drawing conclusions off information that we already know. What more do I need to push on vendetta/Xalxe on? You've said it yourself, I am voting on Xalxe based on math alone. How is that in anyway a cheap vote? I consider it the most justified vote based upon the facts.

This is a game of mafia not math.

Do you have any other suspicions of the slot other than what delta's theory brought you?

The suspicions of the slot date back to earlier in the game where vendetta put a vote on an obvious newbie suggestion from PaperSpirit. I looked at it as trying to start a bandwagon, but noticed resistance and he backed off. Also, the constant theory talk between Tierce, buldermar, and vendetta looked to me as a distraction to the game and I suspected one of them as scum to keep that distraction present.

Strong reads or not, at that time that was the suspicion. I did not have a true feeling that vendetta was scum, but he came across to me as the scummiest of the game.

However, my vote in D2 comes off Delta's theory. Xalxe has stayed pretty quiet as well as the rest of the game giving us really very little information in D2. So, I do not have any further reads.

Hai Xalxe.

↑ Tierce wrote:Hai Xalxe.

On my list for today, don't worry.

Sorry I don't really have anything to add to the discussion.

VOTE: Airick

Claim nao?

Yes, claim. I'm willing to hammer.

So what I have a feeling will be my final words, I would share my concerns to the town. I did claim in post 372. But again, I am a vanilla townie.

- Tierce's case on me reflects actions in D1, and very little in D2. She has called my vote cheap with poor justification. Instead of really diving into the D2 analysis, the focus stays on D1 play and what she says is lurkiness on my part. I will point out that through all of the headaches from this game, Tierce, buldermar, and I are the only originals left. Tierce led the DeltaBacon lynch, and she's leading this lynch.

- I am voting on the vendetta slot. However, outside of post 343 where he gives his take on who is town and who isn't (with really no reasons why), what contributions has Xalxe made to the day since he replaced vendetta? He hasn't had anything to add to the discussion for some time. And Tierce says I'm the one who is lurking.

- What is buldermar's take on this lynch? Is he flat out just ignoring the whole game?

- Although CD has challenged a few points on both sides, Leonshade appears to follow what the popular mob is doing. He's even said in post #400 that the game is confusing and we need to get a wagon going. Well, the wagon is here and he's ready to hammer.

I fear the town will lynch another townie and will look back at D2 as a complete waste. Very little information has been analyzed from what we got from the night action in D1. Xalxe, buldemar, and Leonshade have contributed very little. Tierce created another wagon against another townie.

One more thing, my vote is on Xalxe. But since it will be a topic for D3, I would strongly suggest Leonshade is the scum partner.

Your post 372 only has an alignment claim and no the role claim you were just asked for

I do agree that we haven't got enough out of this day, but I'm not sure how that's going to change. I don't have anything to add at the moment, but I'm not going to hammer right now as we may still be able to use these last 3 days to get more information out of other suspects.

I don't believe airick and Xalxe to be a likely team, I can only really see Leonshade as being in a team with buldermar based on what I think may have been happening with the cheater.
Tierce is the main pusher of your lynch, and I can possibly see that team.
Jason is still town.

Given those thoughts, and since I am currently not wanting to hammer.
VOTE: buldermar

@Mod I'm V/LA until saturday.

I'm sorry. I have to V/LA in all my games until satuday. I'll dedicate any spare time to this game specifically due to deadline.

↑ Airick10 wrote:Tierce's case on me reflects actions in D1, and very little in D2. She has called my vote cheap with poor justification. Instead of really diving into the D2 analysis, the focus stays on D1 play and what she says is lurkiness on my part. I will point out that through all of the headaches from this game, Tierce, buldermar, and I are the only originals left. Tierce led the DeltaBacon lynch, and she's leading this lynch.

Isn't your case based mostly on what happened D1, too? Seems odd of you to call her out on this. Most of D2 has been people discussing D1, anyway. It's been an uneventful day.

↑ Airick10 wrote:Although CD has challenged a few points on both sides, Leonshade appears to follow what the popular mob is doing.

He's even said in post #400 that the game is confusing and we need to get a wagon going. Well, the wagon is here and he's ready to hammer.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the bolded part.

*crickets*

Still fine with this lynch.

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:I don't believe airick and Xalxe to be a likely team

Why?

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:Tierce is the main pusher of your lynch, and I can possibly see that team.

Which team--me and Airick? ...by all means, help me 'bus' then.

because I know next to nothing about when bussing should occur.
But I don't feel that this would be the likely time that Xalxe and airick would have decided to bus with other options available.

It's not that high a possibility, but I see it as more possible than Xalxa/Airick.
I still have hope we can use the last few days of this Day for information and I'm not happy to hammer right now.

↑ Tierce wrote:

@mod, please prod JasonWazza.

I ish back, family crisis caused me to be unable to get on.

Everything i said still stands, Airick should have a rope round his neck (metaphorically don't do that) and we should be lynching him.

: Explain to me why you're not hammering Airick, and who should be lynched instead.

Or vote Airick.