Yet your post after this feels genuinely resigned so, leaning town now.
Is resignation a towntell? Can Scum never be resigned?
Resignation isn't a towntell, no, but being genuine is. And it felt real. It was less the action more how it felt.
- I feel a bit better about GM now after that vote, actually. Scum try their hardest to be consistent and not make stupid mistakes, so forgetting who you're voting/not bothering to look back at your last vote feels town, albeit careless.
@Bert - I'm lacking passion? I'm so offended. Your mother doesn't think so. <3
But back to srs, if you feel awkward about your reads on Cabd & TSO, and you feel TSO is more likely scum, why is your vote still on Cabd?
PEDIT: Are you telling me you're putting off serious votes because fuck it?
Also when did we play together? I don't recall ever playing with you.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:30 am
by Kazekirimaru
Ohhh. Micro 219. You were in NOTYO then. Gotcha.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:32 am
by Bert
In post 427, Kazekirimaru wrote:Scum try their hardest to be consistent and not make stupid mistakes, so forgetting who you're voting/not bothering to look back at your last vote feels town, albeit careless.
Not necessarily. I've seen Majiffy forget set-ups, who just died, etc., as scum. It goes both ways, but I understand your sentiment.
In post 427, Kazekirimaru wrote:Also when did we play together? I don't recall ever playing with you.
I was part of NOTYOCHEEZ in 219, where I hammered you Day 1. Does that ring a bell?
In post 427, Kazekirimaru wrote:Are you telling me you're putting off serious votes because fuck it?
No, my vote on Cabd was serious. It was a serious sheep vote (80% sheep, 20% consciousness). Coming in, I had nothing better, and my reads on everyone were not confident and not developed at all (even gut-wise, which is what I rely on for the most part). Cabd didn't look town, but neither did anyone else save for notscience - I alluded to that upon coming in, if you read back.
Now that I'm in the flow of the game and I feel comfortable (which doesn't happen in all games), I am being my own player.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:35 am
by Kazekirimaru
So TL;DR no more sheeping from Bert.
This brings me back to: why are you still voting Cabd?
I still will, but it will be selective sheeping of a darn good, rock solid townread who I think isn't just scum playing very well (hopefully I don't get deceived easily)
I'm not!!!! Did you neglect to read the last few unofficial votecounts???!?!?!?!?
Oh, missed that. Apologies. ^^
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:42 am
by Kazekirimaru
I'm not seeing GM as scumflavor of the day.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:43 am
by Bert
Only major major major thing that might have us all fooled is if Ffery and Cabd are scum together, which would explain Ffery's unwillingness to call Cabd scum outright and just say "she's still figuring him out, yada-yada-yada." Seriously doubt it though, but hey, paranoia speaks for itself sometimes, ya know?
Since you do not see GM as scum, why do you see TSO as scum? You still haven't explained it. Is it gut, something else ping you, what??
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:48 am
by Kazekirimaru
I explained it earlier. It was a mix of a lot of things including gut, some fluff posting he did that struck me as off, interactions with i think it was ns, etc. I THOUGHT my other town reads were voting him, but, they were not. I'm actually starting to get a little weirded out by the way the wagons are forming. Nothing but nullish and scum reads on TSO wagon; my town reads are voting elsewhere.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:50 am
by Bert
Thanks, I forgot about that.
In post 312, Kazekirimaru wrote:I just realized I'm voting with my other scumread and a null read. But my other scumread is being voted by...my other scumread. -twitch-
I'm not gonna wagon analyze right now.
Have you wagon analyzed yet, or is your conclusion that you don't like the composition of the people on the TSO wagon, them being a mix of scum/null reads?
I see. See, this helps me relate to your thought process (or at least try to).
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:58 am
by notscience
Can we please for the love of god get votes back on scum-cabd?
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:59 am
by fferyllt
There is some goodposting by GM during the first few pages. She took stances and laid down some reasoned reads.
notsci I'm thinking that Grav missing that joke is not a scumtell and that agi is actually leaning Town for me based on his line of questioning and the fact that we're having serious conversation early p2.
T S O looks a bit odd but quite frankly he looked like that the last time we played despite being confTown the entire time he inhabited the slot.
In post 45, Gravija wrote:Ah, thanks for explaining the joke, GM.
I'm getting a few scummy vibes from agi, but not enough to make a conclusion. He keeps asking if there's a doctor, he might be attempting to figure out a night kill or something. He also claimed town, which isn't a good idea (though I think it was a joke).
This is a good post in a lot of ways. There's a lot of transparency of thought here which is very townish and there's definitely some protown motivation here.
I do disagree with some of the actual points though. There are reasons that newbtown would try to determine PRs just as much as newbscum would, and claiming town doesn't really mean anything imo.
At any rate this post has given me a nice strong townlean.
In post 83, agi102 wrote:Ok, so Sakura and Gravija don't understand this gambit. That's ok.
Also, link me to a game where someone has been replaced for idiocy.
I'm not 100% sure selfvoting counts as a gambit. Strictly speaking.
Even if you were being a complete idiot, you could really only be replaced if you were doing it on purpose.
Fair warning: many people frown on selfvotes, partly because they tend to be anti-Town and partly because they tend to be against one's wincon.
Vote: Sakura
This vote on the other hand is at the bottom of a midsized quotes wall and has no reasoning shown.
Then there are a bunch of posts including posts about Cabd and me joining the game with no mention at all of sakura. The first slight hint of reasoning is offered in 140:
@Grav: Who has provided more content thus far, Sakura or notsci?
Sakura was on v/la, but still making an appearance here and there.
In 157, another hint about her Sakura read - she reples "Really?" to grav's response to her that Sakura's provided more real content than notsci.
In 168 she votes T S O (another vote without reasoning). In her next post 186 she switches back to Sakura with no explanation.
In post 196, goodmorning wrote:Well I think this is Town v Town unless one of {Sakura, T S O} flips Town in which case Cabd (tinysmall chance ffery) is Scum.
^^ I remember thinking this one pinged when I first read it. "this is Town v Town" refers to the exchange between NotSci and Cabd. The pingy part though, comes next. She's doing pre-flip associations here. I need to go back and check a couple of games to be sure, but I am pretty sure GM has actively discouraged pre-flip/day 1 associative stuff in other games we've played.
In post 235, Sakura Hana wrote:Despite that tho, I haven't seen GM do much of anything and just tries to get me dead just like in monks and masons
Pot, meet kettle.
V/LA til Monday.
^ a no u.
In post 303, goodmorning wrote:I think I need to reread this, but I doubt my opinions will change much.
Given her posts/vote today this one in particular is ironic. She doubts her opinion will change but apparently she doesn't remember where her vote was. And the reread didn't refresh her memory.
In post 360, goodmorning wrote:Yes it is done, and still T S O and Sakura with low-and-unlikely chance of Cabd.
Consistency in the above though.
As far as posts of interest that brings me up to today. Kaze's point that the sloppiness/forgetfulness is more likely to come from town than scum resonates. I know that's the case for me. I'm meticulously careful about my stances and where my vote is as scum.
Her ISO shows a vague but discernable trajectory on sakura. Her initial vote on T S O was unexplained, and there's nothing in her later posts that sheds light on why he's in her scumpile, much less why she thinks she has her vote on him.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:10 am
by fferyllt
In post 441, notscience wrote:Can we please for the love of god get votes back on scum-cabd?
No comment on the GM cases?
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:14 am
by Bert
What's your conclusion about GM, Ffery? Yeah, I skimmed it all. First part you list what's town about her, and then the second part you list what's bothering you. What do you want me to comment on, specifically?
In post 441, notscience wrote:Can we please for the love of god get votes back on scum-cabd?
Comments unrelated to Cabd please, like ffery just asked you to do. And no, I'm not caving into your pressure to vote Cabd because you said so. That won't do. And reiterating why you're voting Cabd in a way that makes sense would help too, while you're at it. "ISO me" is not an acceptable response
In post 312, Kazekirimaru wrote:I just realized I'm voting with my other scumread and a null read. But my other scumread is being voted by...my other scumread. -twitch-
I'm not gonna wagon analyze right now.
Have you wagon analyzed yet, or is your conclusion that you don't like the composition of the people on the TSO wagon, them being a mix of scum/null reads?
I see. See, this helps me relate to your thought process (or at least try to).
It is. It's probably the main reason I have doubts. The wagons are questionable at best.
I said earlier TSO and Sakura were scum and now "oh yeah they're scum" yet you apparently don't have a townread on me when I thought them before you did. I said Agi was town before you did.
Seemslegit
You're trying to come up with reasons to feed the town paranoia about me (NS you've been lurking/inactive in your recent games, you scum bro?)
This whole- "You've seen my scumgame" bit is a lie. You've told me that you always change how you play your scumgame after every finished game. So, that is ultimately null and the fact you're trying to use that to make me townread you is moronic.
You had that joking/buddy attempt on ffery when you came in- why? Because she knows you best of all the players and poses the biggest threat.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:22 am
by notscience
Bert, yours wasn't really a "case" persay.
Ffery has good points, but she isn't voting gm.
Posted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:23 am
by Kazekirimaru
@ns - So...nothing new, then? No recent developments on your reads? You're not stubbornly riding your vote now, are you?
In post 444, Bert wrote:What's your conclusion about GM, Ffery?