Mafiascum.net

In post 419, Yates wrote:

In post 415, Zdenek wrote:If it happened slower and I would have thought that he was taking time to perfect lies.

1. I think fake vig shots are lamezors

That's OK, it was ZD that did it, not you.

2. Fake vig shots are pretty common and not alignment indicative of the faker.

That's ok, at least for me, I was already reading ZD as town anyway.

3. Fake vig shots are pretty common and not alignment indicative on the target.

4. Fake vig shots [provide the following] information - ie. none.

Those are broad assumptions and are NOT true.

Cripes, in ALL the REAL hammers you have seen - in what % of those hammers [excluding end game] did the scum just give up the ghost and go "awe shucks - you caught me. Good job!"

In fact I just read a game recently where the scum went all "Go scum!" but that's not the point. The point is DID THIS FAKE VIG SHOT WORK. Specifically this case, not across the board generalizations and YOU are trying with everything you have to discredit this and I totally expect scum to do the same thing.

In post 424, pisskop wrote: Complimentary post 26 and his underlined business. Seemed self explanatory as to who 'him' was.

Not to me it wasn't. There were two people that he could of been referring to and I wanted to nail down which person it was.

111 so much no. Is he buddying? How did he just get through explaining how he has played mafia for years and now is looking up to Thad and Mastin and learning sooo much from them?

I have played Mafia of years; not constantly. I look up to a certain group of skilled players that I have read during various games or have heard about. Yes it is kind of buddying & flattering but its also true.

155 I don't see how that

needs

priority response. I find it completely obvious, but then again I cant say its inherently scumzors. Just rings like it could be an attempt to poke in an attempt to pretend scumhunt.

Pardon me but that is an outstanding query that has not been answered and yes it does NEED to be.

Wha~? Why did you vote Gant but question mastin for similar sentiment? ESP since Mastin did not explain until 20 posts later.

Its not DG (the player) that matters as much (in this inquiry) and pardon me once again but this is an outstanding query that has not been answered.

249 You know who MR forgot in his readlist? DG.

Nuh-Uh

Four out of five scumreads are lurky/noncontent players.

Yes but there reasons for each of them. Address MY content on them or stop generalizing negatively on my reads. kthxbai.

In post 97, Mister Rogers wrote:Dang Talah calm down my head is on fire reading your :goodposting:

What did you like about Talah's posting?

In post 397, Mister Rogers wrote:Ok, actually almost all of my scum reads are lurking. I guess we have a problem with the game state. Aptil & BJC are prod dodging and I het this. Luca is active lurking and I can't figure out if he is being replaced or not. Mastin has a very unfortunate V/LA and I feel sorry for them.

And sorry PK, I beat you to it.

In post 427, Zdenek wrote:

In post 97, Mister Rogers wrote:Dang Talah calm down my head is on fire reading your :goodposting:

What did you like about Talah's posting?

I go into it in my analysis quite heavily. Let me go get it for you.

It's okay. I was rereading. I'll get to it.

Gosh I am coming off as rude in that post PK. I am sorry. I need to tone it down sometimes.

In post 431, Mister Rogers wrote:Gosh I am coming off as rude in that post PK. I am sorry. I need to tone it down sometimes.

No, let out your inner scumbag.
Ill get back to you.

In post 376, Mister Rogers wrote:Pardon me but are you guys a hydra? Or is it scum buddies? I mean, why are you answering for Yates here?

Wow, what a terrible post. No, I happened to agree with Yates about the Vig interaction. People townreading the situation ARE being naive and your stated reasons for voting Yates don't make any sense. I'll call bullshit out when I see it, thanks.

The only thing that bothered me about Pisskop was his stance on Talah:

In post 350, pisskop wrote:At this point, I want to say that Talah's style of posting seems to have a natural town feel.

In post 350, pisskop wrote:Not too sure on him, but still leaning scum.

And the quoted posts seem mostly arbitrary on top of this. Then suddenly he affirms Talah is town after this post:

In post 355, talah wrote:Pidgeon - quick one from work - were you asked to join this game, or did you replace in of your own accord?

And did you skim / read any of the thread prior to replacing in?

In post 357, pisskop wrote:talah can be towny for now

Which wasn't a townie post? I mean it was a pretty whatever post, dunno why pisskop cared about it unless he just wanted to rectify his previous waffle on Talah.

@AP: So you disagree that Yates has been tunneling?

In post 420, Zdenek wrote:What makes you think, that I think that it is some sort of game-changer? I don't think that, by the way, it's just strange that's the impression that you have.

Probably the fact you immediately dropped your pursuit after a VT claim.

In post 180, Zdenek wrote:Well at least we know you're town.

In post 421, Zdenek wrote:We were both there typing at once.

Right. To me a normal conversation looks like what we are doing now. When there's just a back and forth between two people over a super short period of time? It stands out.

In post 421, Zdenek wrote:This is probably the first time I've seen someone suggest that interactions taking place over a longer period of time seem more legitimate.

It's a theory. Again, because it stands out. I'm trying to justify why my "gut" reaction to reading that exchange was "this looks forced" and this is just one of the variables feeding it.

You dropping the focus off Chemist entirely is another. I don't know if it's because you are scum buddies and you feel like you got the Town to read you both as Town as a result of your gambit or if YOU are scum and just don't want to pursue a VT since you'd rather nail a PR. I also wouldn't expect you - as Town - to just assume Chemist is Town because he claimed VT as if that isn't the most common fake scum claim ever. I don't really like any of these scenarios and I don't understand the game play here.

What I find equally interesting is the number of people that all of a sudden were like "welp - I guess Zdenek and Chemist are Town now" when there is ZERO precident/reason for that change of heart ["game changer"]. In case you didn't notice, I've been asking for reasons why and have yet to see anything remotely persuasive.

In post 422, Mister Rogers wrote:Ok. This is kind of amazing because both you and Pere are playing at me the same way. It is kind of confusing actually.

The thing is, I'm not playing you. I'm playing Pere. Why you are in the middle is the mystery. The fact he isn't posting bothers me only in the sense that I'm not getting the information I need from him [and maybe not using my vote in a more productive way given new evidence] but he isn't posting anywhere so...?

In post 422, Mister Rogers wrote:Yes I did leave that post out there. But nowhere do I say I think scum have daytalk.

I was going to requote and prove you wrong. But okay, I see what you were saying in 276. You were saying you agreed "that scum don't necessarily have daytalk." I was thinking you and talah were saying Pere and ThAd *DID* have day talk. That's why it stood out to me.

In post 424, pisskop wrote:Fine. Ill meta a bit and get back to your in-game contents.

On the plus side, I found myself shaking my head in agreement a lot to your Rogers read.

In post 425, Mister Rogers wrote:The point is DID THIS FAKE VIG SHOT WORK. Specifically this case, not across the board generalizations

Are you being serious right now? The point is WTF, dude. Meta is all about "in general THIS is what I would expect." On this site, scum TYPICALLY don't just admit they are scum after being fake vigged, fake hammered, or REAL hammered. I asked you to show me where they have in one of the first two scenarios since if you are going to call a VT claim Town. OR I ask you to call upon your experience here on this site and to consider ALL of the lynches you have been party to or witnessed and ballpark estimate the number of times even REAL hammered scum has claimed scum after the hammer [again - outside of end game] because MY experience is that it's probably on the order of 1-2%. This is why fake vigs are A. lame B. look contrived and C. TELL US NOTHING ABOUT EITHER PLAYER'S ALIGNMENT. Pretending it does is dumb or fake.

In post 388, DeasVail wrote:Talah, convince me that there was any point to posting this other than to make yourself look more town.

That tidbit also pinged me. Not specifically for this reason (although it makes sense) but hes arguing about Gant's townread on him by throwing up meta for no real reason? Like why? It looks like smoke.

In post 394, talah wrote:Anyway I'm not interested in a Day 1 mastin lynch if I haven't mentioned that enough times already.

Which I've taken issue with in case you haven't noticed : ). Prodding someone like mastin and then backing down for pointless reasons just looks like someone trying to ruffle feathers and then settle on softer targets. People have already been eyeing mastin suspiciously for no real reason but it looks like mostly piggy backed off your early pressure there which you are now actively declining to give an opinion on.

And since you said you are town hunting - who is town?

In post 396, talah wrote:I'm giving it the nullest of townreads on both, and a bit less on Chemist, if that's possible. Zdenek's leaning town for questioning and pushing anyway.

Mm, ok. I still want to lynch Chemist the most right now I think, but people are acting (or actually believe, wow) that scum isn't capable of faking that. I mean maybe Im just paranoid because I've done far more elaborate shit than that as scum: (pretended I was hammered when I knew I wasnt and fake raged all over the thread) http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5107138

-On Mastin



---

-On 4nxi3ty



Conclusion:
Anxiety is a good place to look if DG turns up scum, and vice versa.

@Yates: You are using generalizations to say, "naww, this can't be". We're playing an actual game where actual events have taken place.

Its a PRIMARY GOAL for scum to discredit this.

Your statistical approach reeks.

And you DID use daytalk to try and knock it down.

In post 399, DeasVail wrote:Going against what seems to be an already established opinion, while making a point that I actually agree with? If he was a girl and I was a girl, I'd probably say something like 'You go gurl!' Hey, I'll say it anyway. YOU GO GURL!

This is both hilarious and in line with what I was thinking re Yates on the Dayvig matter. Can you explain what felt different about Talah before and why you think he could fool you as scum? Also your DG read is A+.

In post 399, DeasVail wrote:I find his scumhunting lacklustre

Are you my alt? I used the exact same word to describe him, >.>

Oops talah did give an extensive town list. Why is admiral towny, Talah? Also dear god Rogers v Talah quote walls are getting pedantic and long.

In post 407, Mister Rogers wrote:Anyone else think "scum dayvig" here?

No, the only correct reaction to a dayvig in a NORMAL GAME is to not give a shit about it because its fake 99 times out of 100.

In post 408, talah wrote:I'm hedging hard on mastin because of the way she dropped off scumreading me.

When did mastin stop scumreading you? Admittedly she hasn't been as active in this thread (or on site) as I'd like but I understand that is for personal reasons. And ironically, you are the one who is claiming to have dropped your mastin scumread or otherwise put it on the backburner.

In post 408, talah wrote:And you're irritating the shit out of me just coming back to me, again and again, and you're confused as to whether lurkers could be scum?

Of course they can, thats the issue with lurkers. They're like a box of chocolates, you never know what ther're gonna flip. So wagoning random lurkers usually ends up hitting town since most of the game is town and scum will just convince people to not vote their buddy lurker. You declared intent to lurker hunt which is a great thing for scum to do (hits town a lot, no resistance from the people you pressure, low hanging targets). I mean townies do it to, so its no explicitly a scumtell but its never a great policy.

In post 410, pisskop wrote:Nopers. Based on his play in another large game I don't like him here.

If this is referring to an ongoing game then stop right here. You shouldnt even have posted this. Also this shit wont fly for an argument since no one can actually verify it or read you off of it.

@Angy: Ya nice rage :rolleyes: Was Mollie scum btw? She had the rage. lol.

In post 413, Yates wrote:

In post 400, Mister Rogers wrote:I can't figure out which is worse Yates pushing daytalk or...

In post 363, Mister Rogers wrote:Quote me the post where ANYONE says they think scum have daytalk.

Are you trolling me right now?

In post 276, Mister Rogers wrote:You know

I was thinking similar veins about scum daytalk

.

I can't figure out which is worse Rogers pushing daytalk or pretending he didn't.

Wow this is legitimately terrible from Rogers.

In post 316, Plessiez wrote:

AngryPidgeon replaces Smudger and pisskop replaces Doc Holliday.

Page 13 (quoted for my reference).

In post 323, Yates wrote:I didn't make the allegation - I don't have the burden of proof. That said, I think I've only played with BB 3 or 4 times and I'm pretty sure he's never replaced out [not that I can find, anyway]. Why this strikes me as particularly shitty is because you are basically accusing him of dishonorable play. You'd think he would have a reputation for it if it were actually true.

I've played games where he has replaced out. I don't know his alignment in those games, nor do I care. The object was for the replacement to come in already under suspicion/pressure (such as it was) and see how they reacted (if at all).
If I truly thought BBMolla replaced out as scum BECAUSE he was scum, I would keep that secret and bust him/his slot in every game.

But, good to see the passion.

In post 418, 4nxi3ty wrote:(I dunno why you are encouraging this line of topic, AP, considering you recently called me town and that the mister rogers v. anxiety was a distraction.)

I was trying to resolve it by explaining what I thought you said? Thought that was fairly obvious.

In post 418, 4nxi3ty wrote:Not sure how I feel about DV floating me into his scum section

Meh, his reads are mostly alright. Gimme some time to sell him on this one.

In post 419, Yates wrote:A VT claim DOESN'T mean that the person is auto magically vanilla OR town.

Lol. This loosely reminds me of HPATPL where I got wagoned to like L - 4 and just flash-claimed VT and somehow it worked, my wagon kinda dismantled. (I was scum, but you know that )

In post 434, Mister Rogers wrote:@AP: So you disagree that Yates has been tunneling?

I think hes been lurking. PV is town so his vote there is useless, but its not scummy? I get a general town feel from his posts but its Yates and I respect his scum game so he never gets an early pass from me.

--

In post 435, Yates wrote:What I find equally interesting is the number of people that all of a sudden were like "welp - I guess Zdenek and Chemist are Town now" when there is ZERO precident/reason for that change of heart ["game changer"]. In case you didn't notice, I've been asking for reasons why and have yet to see anything remotely persuasive.

^ @Rogers: This makes perfect sense to me. Yates isn't actually shoving Chemist/Zd as scumscumscum? I know I was disappointed at the people tripping over themselves to shower towncred on the situation which seems to be Yates's exact thoughts on the matter. And I dont get your point about overall vs specifically here vig interactions. This dayvig interaction specifically is no reason to townread anyone. Who cares about dayvig's in general?

Yes Mollie was my buddy that game lol. We all coasted to endgame after they lynched NS.

In post 323, Yates wrote:

In post 223, PeregrineV wrote:Someone claimed scum. Thoughts on that.

I gave my thoughts on that...

In post 217, Yates wrote:[@ThAd] I hate the fake scum claim as much as a self vote. I think you are overstating how scummy it is - since we were both in a game where Town did this - but it is annoying and frustrating and can be difficult to see past. Perfectly acceptable reason for an RVS vote. Not a great point to build a case on, though.

Why do you think it is a fake scum claim?
A self-vote is different.
If he had self-voted with the claim, then a little suspicious, but hahaha-not funny-moving on.
If he had not claimed but self-voted anyway, a little suspicious, but ok-what about the thread-moving on.

Since then, I watch the follow-up posting for signs of scum-claim followup or town posting, since any of that can alleviate the above crappy RVS.

I have, so far, found none of it. Point it out if you have.

In post 330, Zdenek wrote:Nope. I contend that a bunch of people reacted poorly to a day one scum claim.

I don't want to fight about this, but what is a "good" (as opposed to poor) reaction to a day one scum claim?

Ok, so the issue with bjc claiming scum is that all the conversation about it has been pretty fucking pointless.

No the issue is he's bjc and we cant judge him on that alone.

82 is the only post of actual substance on bjc.

And its a towny post.