Mafiascum.net

↑ Mathilda wrote:Or for that matter, if he completely forgot that he was playing this game, maybe he completely forgot who his scum buddy was!

That is (sadly) possible. Even if he remembered who the buddy was he barely left behind any associations.

as I start to see analysis and scumhunting.

@bbt: any reason why dray over LC?

His lack of reads/reasoning.

Especially when he was supposedly working on a reads-list for me D1.

@mathilda: I assume you meant dray is suspicious?

P-edit: actually I can barely recall anything he did D1

Let me check

mostly tl;dr on phone, but I don't see anything that reminds me of him in D1... Like if he said anything I put into my mind I should be able to catch it in ISO even skimming on phone

I could imagine scum would rather lay low given dwlee was already instantly cornered since he started

Right now I'm more concerned about LC's silence though. That's not like him

Initial read list:

Yuriko made a good case for voting dwlee99 page 6 and kept with the lynch wagon until it was successful: Town

Gratuitous was put to L-1 by dwlee99 early on in the game but we're not even sure dwlee99 could remember who his partner was. Needs further investigation.

Lowercase has been more active but has not voted much. Last vote on dwlee99 could be bussing but could also work to exonerate him. Needs further investigation.

BBT an early voter on dwlee99 and encouraged others to join. Unvoting and revoting was acceptable considering there was time left to explore other possibilities. Lean town.

Shaddowez replaced Necargoface who was caught out contradicting himself. Shaddowez put dwlee99 at L-1 before BBT unvoted. Lean town.

Dwanyth had good reason to vote necargoface page 4.

Main suspects Gratuitous/Zerosummer and Lowercase/Axwell.

<Some time later>

I've just been through the entire thread writing down a summary of each of Grat/ZS's posts and Lowercase/Axwell's.

Lowercase is definitely not scum and he has it in early on for dwlee99. He is also deeply suspicious of Gratuitous / ZS and makes some good points.

Zerosummer was definitely playing quite scummy, Gratuitous doesn't but isn't exactly scum hunting either. Does cast suspicion on dwlee but also lumps him in with Yuriko as the other most likely candidate. He looks like he is trying to keep his head down and avoid attention.

VOTE: Gratuitous

I'll now catch up with the thread as I notice that there are more posts.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:At this point, I'm pretty sure the final scum is in Draynth/LC.

I'm only willing to vote between these two Today and for now;

VOTE: Draynth

This feels good.

I would consider voting Draynth instead of Gratuitous but would need to discuss it more. I wouldn't want to vote LC though.

LC proposes lynching dwlee #141, casts more suspicion on dwlee #181, describes dwlee as ridiculously scummy #212, argues with dwlee #215, asks people how they are not sceptical of dwlee #221, declares intent to hammer dwlee #265, demands claim from dwlee #307, wants a hammer vote #315 and then proceeds to be worried about not lynching dwlee thereafter.

OK, but if he was so intent on lynching Dwlee - why wait until it is confirmed that he is the lynch?

Surely he would want to be on that wagon early to push it through? The fact is that he waited until it was inevitable that Dwlee was going to be lynched and THEN he joined the wagon.

Also, claiming Grat is not scum hunting is false. He is clearly scum hunting.

Hmm you have a point BBT. Gratuitous did agree dwlee was scum and did have to spend a lot of energy defending himself against Lowercase. And Draynth could have stirred up dirt on necargoface / shaddowez when he left the Zerosummer/Gratuitous lynch wagon after being joined by dwlee.

I'll keep my vote as it is for now but it's either Draynth or Gratuitous as far I'm concerned. I can't really decide which. I can comprehend the possibility that Zerosummer wasn't actually playing scummy and truly did not see the point of RV's and found the thread too serious. Any fluff does get pounced on here. But then when he does make a vote which isn't an RV, his reason doesn't make any sense.

#31 Makes vote against Honest/Mathilda for distancing by voting BBT but not clear as to who Honest was distancing himself from.

What do you think I have a point about Mathilda?

I'll respond to posts by tonight, sorry for the absence

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I quite liked the case - though I disagree with the conclusion. Do you think scum put their buddy to L-1 super early in the game? That would be pretty ballsy for newb!scum to pull off.

It's uncommon enough for an RVS wagon to go through, especially that early in the game, and would also give more than plausible deniability if a derphammer did come through and knock off a scumbuddy. While I agree it is brazen to do so, I don't think it's out of the question.

I also have to revisit my 273 and look into LC more. One post of his made him sound a bit more townish to me, but the rest not so much. I'll also be looking into Draynth more, as people have been putting forth interesting points against him.

Just for reference, it was MasonP, not dwlee that cast the L-1 vote on ZeroSummer on page 1. While it is the same slot, it's probably a bad idea to speculate dwlee's play on a vote that he didn't cast.

Given Dwlee's flip, I've been working mostly by POE:

Gratutious
Yuriko
BBT, Lowercase,
Mathilda
Draynth, Shaddowez

I'd be willing to lynch from Mathilda down today, but would prefer to lynch on of the bottom two. I pointed out a few things on Draynth yesterday, and looking over his iso, he's failed to deliver on promised reads a few times, and his iso shows he did a lot to avoid the Yuriko/dwlee debate that popped up.

As for shaddowez, I think if anyone was bussing on D1 it was most likely him. Note how Shaddowez comes out swinging at Dwlee in #272, and then in #350:

↑ shaddowez wrote:
I am also beginning to be unsure of Lee, as he may just be a complete newb and unsure how to play. That being said, I don't know that for a fact, and am still willing to vote him since at the least he's a hindrance to town at this point.

which feels a lot like he's trying to see if he can get people to agree and start moving off Dwlee, while not committing to lead the way, and hoping for the town-cred if nothing changes and dwlee flips.

BTW Shaddowez, what exactly is so scummy about calling someone an unaligned pair? It was pretty clear at the time. Funny though how you now point to a D1 scumread on yuriko as a scummy thing, does this look familliar?

↑ shaddowez wrote:UNVOTE:
My strongest scumread is definitely dwlee. His introductory post, 119, has absolutely nothing of substance yet finds Yuri suspicious for not having posted anything of much use. While that's personal belief, she already had 20 posts before dwlee's entrance which makes it hard for me to believe that he actually had a basis for that statement. Yuri was also the most recent vote by BBT in 105, and without actually voting for either of his "suspicious" people screams out to me as sheeping and not actually trying to figure anything out.

The rest of his posts are complete fluff, focusing on the OMGUS vote (which wasn't an OMGUS vote).

VOTE: dwlee99

Most of my remaining reads are null, with Yuri and LC being slight scumreads.

Calling Dwlee scum (and voting him), while also calling Yuriko scummy, boy that "makes my skin crawl" to borrow your words...

For the moment I'm going to go with my gut: VOTE: Draynth

↑ Gratuitous wrote:BTW Shaddowez, what exactly is so scummy about calling someone an unaligned pair?

Calling Dwlee scum (and voting him), while also calling Yuriko scummy, boy that "makes my skin crawl" to borrow your words...

Ah, context, it's a beautiful thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling out two reads as an unaligned pair - it doesn't really make sense to me in a game where you know that it's not multiball, but it's not scummy in and of itself. There's also nothing wrong with having two scumreads and only voting for one, since, well, you can only vote for one.

What you're failing to address is what I quoted in my previous post. the fact that you specifically said you find both scummy, ignored the dwlee wagon, and said you find Yuri more likely to flip scum between the two.

↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What do you think I have a point about Mathilda?

I originally thought that you had made a good point about Lowercase not voting dwlee until the lynch looked likely to succeed but I now assume that this is because he preferred to lynch Gratuitous.

34 - Gratuitous: BBT, Lowercase
35 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT
36 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT, Mathilda
37 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT, Mathilda, shaddowez
38 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, [BBT], Mathilda, shaddowez
39 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, Mathilda, shaddowez, BBT
40 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, Mathilda, shaddowez, BBT, Lowercase

↑ Gratuitous wrote:Just for reference, it was MasonP, not dwlee that cast the L-1 vote on ZeroSummer on page 1. While it is the same slot, it's probably a bad idea to speculate dwlee's play on a vote that he didn't cast.

Of course. I don't know why I forgot that dwlee replaced MasonP. This weighs more to you being town than Draynth. Sorry, Draynth, just a process of elimination at this point.

UNVOTE: Gratuitous
VOTE: Draynth

Shaddowez more or less sums up my views on the Grat slot.

My statement about shaddowez being the most likely busser is due both to Cargo's replacement timing as well as what seemed like an untenable position on the gamestate. Specifically, I felt it was untenable to argue that I was bussing dwlee. I still do, but evidently BBT lends this theory some credence, so I'm willing to let it slide. The main thing I don't like about that possibility is that I'm not sure any of the connection that typically exists between new-scum is there. I would generally expect dwlee's partner to be more aware of them in most cases, whereas Cargo didn't talk much about anyone specifically until he replaced out.

I'm not sure about Draynth for pretty much the same reason. He was scum in Divine Comedy mafia, which ended during day one. In that game there was a lot of potentially incriminating interaction between Draynth and his buddy, which didn't really happen here. At the same time, Dwlee didn't say much for Draynth to poke at, so I don't want to write him off completely.

p-edit: At about the point I first started attacking dwlee, I preferred his lynch (I briefly changed my mind because I thought Grat had disappeared without V/LA). The reason I waited for L-1 is precisely the reason I gave; I didn't want day one to drag on. It doesn't really matter though. My premature intent to hammer was as good as a vote anyway, claiming otherwise is a little silly.

Based strictly on interaction, I think Grat makes more sense for buddy, but I need to look more into it.

My problem with lynching shaddowrez is when he replaced necargoface in #271. The very next post 1 hour and 2 minutes later he unvotes and votes dwlee99 #272 putting dwlee99 at L-1.

Not sure yet whether dwlee was obviously going to be lynched at this point and shaddowrez was bussing him, it was quite late in the day phase. Unfortunately I've spotted another error with my vote count list so will have to sort that out before saying.

OK I'm going to have to re-evaluate shaddowez / necargoface now. My vote count list was not removing BBT from previous votes because he normally just changes his vote without voting first. This could well be shaddowez bussing dwlee99 knowing that his scum buddy was about to be lynched because after reading the entire thread the new player sees that dwlee99 is the most obviously scummy.

34 - Honest/Mathilda: Dierfire, [necargoface/shaddowez]
35 - Gratuitous: Lowercase
36 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT
37 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT, Mathilda
38 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, BBT, Mathilda, shaddowez
39 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, [BBT], Mathilda, shaddowez
40 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, Mathilda, shaddowez, BBT
41 - dwlee99 : Yuriko, Mathilda, shaddowez, BBT, Lowercase

The previous vote from this show necargoface joining the lynch wagon on my slot when Zerosummer/Gratuitous and Dierfier had already voted. So this could be seen as opportunistic. I'm going to have to go through shaddowez's posts carefully like I have with most of the other players.

Waiting for Draynth.

Sorry, I'm home tomorrow and will msake some posts from my computer. Apologies

↑ shaddowez wrote:

↑ Gratuitous wrote:BTW Shaddowez, what exactly is so scummy about calling someone an unaligned pair?

Calling Dwlee scum (and voting him), while also calling Yuriko scummy, boy that "makes my skin crawl" to borrow your words...

Ah, context, it's a beautiful thing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling out two reads as an unaligned pair - it doesn't really make sense to me in a game where you know that it's not multiball, but it's not scummy in and of itself. There's also nothing wrong with having two scumreads and only voting for one, since, well, you can only vote for one.

What you're failing to address is what I quoted in my previous post. the fact that you specifically said you find both scummy, ignored the dwlee wagon, and said you find Yuri more likely to flip scum between the two.

Maybe it's just an a terminology difference, my home site rarely played any sort of multi-ball beyond group scum + 3p Surv/SK/Souper, and the term "unaligned pairs" was often used to try and separate players who weren't scum together.

Your first paragraph contradicts your second one though. It was not a difficult situation to understand, and I don't see why you're rehashing questions already answered. Very simply, at the that point those two were my top 2 scum reads at the time, albeit as I pointed out I didn't think they would be on the same team (an unaligned pair). Yes, I was voting for YJ who I had as my top scum-read at the time, as you point out, I can only vote for one person at a time. With hindsight, was I incorrect about which one of them would flip scum, yes.

Also a quick VC:

Draynth (3, L-1): BBT (#424), Gratuitous (#439), Mathilda (#441)
Gratuitous (1, L-3): Shaddowez (#415)

Not Voting: Yuriko, Draynth, Lowercase