*Mini 522* Video Game Character Upick - Mod Abandoned


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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:48 pm

Post by Akonas »

I'm currently waiting to see if wolfcrier or IH are in the game. That makes a big difference.
because your brain affects your guts (and vice versa).
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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:01 am

Post by Twomz »

I am looking for replacements for both.

For some reason, I always get a flood of volunteers after I finish replacing the people that need to be replaced, then by the next time I need a replacement, those people are busy in games.
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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:51 pm

Post by Ythill »

I apologize for my lurkiness, but I'm just checking in and probably will not post content tomorrow either.

When I do have time for a serious post (probably Wednesday) I will be putting up my case against Law. This because I will certainly switch to lynch him in a deadline scenario but I'd rather not be in a hurry when we discuss the case.
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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:59 am

Post by Nocmen »

So you're fine with lynching him if it comes down to deadline, but want more time to play out an argument?

I'm just a tad curious to see what comes out of this.
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:33 am

Post by Ythill »

Noc wrote:So you're fine with lynching him if it comes down to deadline, but want more time to play out an argument?
I'm fine with lynching just about anyone if it comes down to deadline. However, what I'm suggesting is that me voting for Law would be a content vote, not a desperate compromise to avoid no-lynch. Remember that I entered the thread declaring both Akonas and Law to be scum. I am currently voting for Akonas (as opposed to Law) for purely strategic reasons, as I explicitly posted earlier.

I don't understand what's odd about wanting to avoid arguing during the crunch. Anyway...

Regarding Lawrencelot
:

I really didn’t like the early discussion-sparking attempts, where Law fished for people’s opinions on a couple of viable scum-tactics (lurker hunting and mass claims).

Interactions with Farside were revealing. For example, Law posts some pretty weak defenses (#115 & 118) in general but seems fully capable of defending himself from Farside’s attacks (#123, 260, 265). Also, in #278, Law defended Farside against what was a very valid case posted by Tar; the defense was weak and turned into reflective suspicion directed against Tar, who has been revealed as town.

Law role-fishes Wolf (#282) but even more telling is the way he includes a weak defense against allegations of role-fishing two posts later (#287) even though
nobody had caught or brought up his role-fishing.
Law role-fishes generally in #367.

Another telling bit is Law’s treatment of Sikario (me). First he thinks the wagon could be manipulated by scum (#252), then he calls Sikario scum (#265), then town again (#295), then calls Sikario one of two preferred lynches (#334), which becomes an FoS on me (#355). What gets me about these position changes is that they are (1) quick and drastic with an amount of indecision that could very well be lip service; (2) Law doesn’t expand fully on the reasons for changing his mind; and (3) Sikario’s posting was consistent enough that such drastic mind changes about him seem out of place.

Law similarly flip-flops on wolf, but to a less conspicuous degree.

I also don’t like the way Law asks town for a wagon (#300), the way he misleads us about whether a living Jester counts against a scum win (#374), or the way he suggests that it would be unrealistic for me to switch my vote from Akonas to him, conveniently forgetting that I have thought them to be scum-equals since my entrance (#402).
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:44 am

Post by pete d »

unfos: Nocmen
he seemed lurkish before, now he seems ok.

At the moment, I'd be happy with lynching Law, Krad or Akonas, but would prefer to keep on wolf for the time being.
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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:45 pm

Post by Lawrencelot »

I'm still here. I'll try to respond to Ythill's post this afternoon.
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:16 am

Post by Lawrencelot »

Ythill wrote:
Regarding Lawrencelot
:

I really didn’t like the early discussion-sparking attempts, where Law fished for people’s opinions on a couple of viable scum-tactics (lurker hunting and mass claims).
Asking for opinions is not scummy, at least that's how I see it, whether you like it or not.
Interactions with Farside were revealing. For example, Law posts some pretty weak defenses (#115 & 118) in general but seems fully capable of defending himself from Farside’s attacks (#123, 260, 265). Also, in #278, Law defended Farside against what was a very valid case posted by Tar; the defense was weak and turned into reflective suspicion directed against Tar, who has been revealed as town.
115 has nothing to do with farside, 118 is no defense of farside. I see nothing scummy in 123, or in 260. If you're really trying and assuming I'm scum you could say that I was bussing farside in 265. In 278, you say I was defending Farside against Tar's case on him, as you call it. This was the case: farside was worried that people would still not contribute even if we had a deadline extension. He says that he wants everone to contribute if we were having an extension. Tar turns this into: "farside does not want a deadline extension" and conveniently places his vote on him. This would be a good argument against Tar if he was scum, not against me, I only said I did not find farside's post lynchworthy. Sikario was also suspicious of Tar iirc.
Law role-fishes Wolf (#282) but even more telling is the way he includes a weak defense against allegations of role-fishing two posts later (#287) even though
nobody had caught or brought up his role-fishing.
Law role-fishes generally in #367.
In 282 I was just asking wolf questions, again for discussion and information. Call it rolefishing if you want. I don't see how I defend role-fishing in 287. In 367, I wanted to be sure that wolfcrier would be nightkilled if he wasn't lynched. If you think this only happens when a vig outs himself, which is the only reason I could see that post as scummy, then that's your problem. Rolefishing for mafia/sk ain't bad, but fact is that I wasn't rolefishing, just trying to say that it's best to nightkill wolf is he is the jester.
Another telling bit is Law’s treatment of Sikario (me). First he thinks the wagon could be manipulated by scum (#252), then he calls Sikario scum (#265), then town again (#295), then calls Sikario one of two preferred lynches (#334), which becomes an FoS on me (#355). What gets me about these position changes is that they are (1) quick and drastic with an amount of indecision that could very well be lip service; (2) Law doesn’t expand fully on the reasons for changing his mind; and (3) Sikario’s posting was consistent enough that such drastic mind changes about him seem out of place.
No time to read all these posts, but Sikario's play is very... hm I don't know the word. It's hard to see whether he's scum or town, because he acts scummy and posts crap in either case. What is lip service?
Law similarly flip-flops on wolf, but to a less conspicuous degree.

I also don’t like the way Law asks town for a wagon (#300), the way he misleads us about whether a living Jester counts against a scum win (#374), or the way he suggests that it would be unrealistic for me to switch my vote from Akonas to him, conveniently forgetting that I have thought them to be scum-equals since my entrance (#402).
A wagon is better than doing nothing. Where did I mislead about the jester? Jesters are not town, they are a seperate group, like I said. And even if this was not true, it would just be wrong, not scummy. Can't say much about 402, besides that Akonas did about the same thing iirc.
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:37 am

Post by Ythill »

Law wrote:115 has nothing to do with farside, 118 is no defense of farside. I see nothing scummy in 123, or in 260.
I never said #115 and #118 had anything to do with farside. I stated that your ability to defend yourself seems heightened against farside, when compared with your ability to defend against others. This
could
be an indication of distancing.
Lawrencelot wrote:In 278, you say I was defending Farside against Tar's case on him, as you call it. This was the case: farside was worried that people would still not contribute even if we had a deadline extension. He says that he wants everone to contribute if we were having an extension. Tar turns this into: "farside does not want a deadline extension" and conveniently places his vote on him.
You’re over-simplifying the issue.

Farside was arguing against a deadline extension requested by several players (including yourself). Tar’s point was that town needed the deadline to lynch properly, to which farside replied by saying she was frustrated. Personal frustration is no good reason to argue for something that will hurt town and help scum, which is a very valid point. In fingering Tar for this case and vote, you defended that point.
Lawrencelot wrote:In 282 I was just asking wolf questions, again for discussion and information. Call it rolefishing if you want.
Asked of a new arrival, “And why do you think Draux claimed?” cannot be answered in an open ended sense. Other than “I don’t know” any honest answer has the limited potential to reveal wolf’s knowledge of Draux’s alignment (anyone will say town) or role.
Lawrencelot wrote:I don't see how I defend role-fishing in 287.

From #287…

Since Wolfcrier replaced Draux, he might give us input on Draux's behaviour, because his behaviour wasn't very pro-town. Of course, if this information is good for mafia, he shouldn't provide it, but I don't think he's that stupid.
Lawrencelot wrote:In 367, I wanted to be sure that wolfcrier would be nightkilled if he wasn't lynched. ....just trying to say that it's best to nightkill wolf is he is the jester.
You were absolutely not “just trying to say” he was the nest nightkill. You offered to remove your vote only
if you were assured
that he was the NK. Since no scum or SK is going to claim, the only killing role that could provide said assurance is town power.
Law wrote:What is lip service?
Saying something just to have said it. For example, telling a cook that the meal tastes good even if it doesn’t. In this case, you make a few passing statements of changing suspicions about Sikario but none of them is very in-depth, complex, or indicative of creative thought so they
may
be lip service.
Law wrote:Where did I mislead about the jester? Jesters are not town, they are a seperate group, like I said. And even if this was not true, it would just be wrong, not scummy.
True. Jesters are not town, they are a separate group, but this statement is misleading in the context of the question.

I have since clarified this theory point outside the thread. In most games, the win condition for mafia is that their numbers must equal or exceed the number of non-mafia left alive. For example, a three-goon team in a setup with an SK must get the total body count down to 6 (if 3 scum remain), 4 (if 2 scum remain), or 2 (if 1 scum remains) to win, regardless of whether or not the SK is alive. Similarly, a Jester (though neutral) counts as a body against a scum win.

So, are you asserting that you were wrong then? Or am I missing something here?
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:04 am

Post by KradDrol »

Mod, any progress on replacements for wolfcrier and/or IH?
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:44 am

Post by Ythill »

Checking in.
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:55 pm

Post by Twomz »

KradDrol wrote:Mod, any progress on replacements for wolfcrier and/or IH?
Not really, last week was my Spring Break (friends came in and there were LAN parties galore) and this next week is my girlfriends Spring Break (probably not gonna be here much).

I'll repost an ad for replacements asap though.
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Crub »

I've come to the conclusion that either :
a) scum are going to win -or-
b) this game will be abandoned

Anyway I'm not going to move my vote from law. I'm not sure who else is scum although I'm guessing it's probably at least KradDrol.

Other than that I don't really have much else to add.
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:19 pm

Post by Lawrencelot »

Ythill wrote:
Lawrencelot wrote:In 278, you say I was defending Farside against Tar's case on him, as you call it. This was the case: farside was worried that people would still not contribute even if we had a deadline extension. He says that he wants everone to contribute if we were having an extension. Tar turns this into: "farside does not want a deadline extension" and conveniently places his vote on him.
You’re over-simplifying the issue.

Farside was arguing against a deadline extension requested by several players (including yourself). Tar’s point was that town needed the deadline to lynch properly, to which farside replied by saying she was frustrated. Personal frustration is no good reason to argue for something that will hurt town and help scum, which is a very valid point. In fingering Tar for this case and vote, you defended that point.
Hm, can you say where Farside said she was frustrated? And though frustration may cause antitown things, it is not always scummy.
Lawrencelot wrote:In 282 I was just asking wolf questions, again for discussion and information. Call it rolefishing if you want.
Asked of a new arrival, “And why do you think Draux claimed?” cannot be answered in an open ended sense. Other than “I don’t know” any honest answer has the limited potential to reveal wolf’s knowledge of Draux’s alignment (anyone will say town) or role.
If he said something like "it was a joke" I could have believed him, up until his own claim. He did not, and his own claim makes my question back then a valid one. You think wolf is protown?
Lawrencelot wrote:I don't see how I defend role-fishing in 287.
Lawrencelot wrote:In 367, I wanted to be sure that wolfcrier would be nightkilled if he wasn't lynched. ....just trying to say that it's best to nightkill wolf is he is the jester.
You were absolutely not “just trying to say” he was the nest nightkill. You offered to remove your vote only
if you were assured
that he was the NK. Since no scum or SK is going to claim, the only killing role that could provide said assurance is town power.
Ok, but it wouldn't be necessary for any vig to claim. Like I said some posts later, discussion about it, and everyone agreeing with "he should be killed" would be assuring enough. We don't even know if there's a vig, but we do know that there's mafia.
Law wrote:Where did I mislead about the jester? Jesters are not town, they are a seperate group, like I said. And even if this was not true, it would just be wrong, not scummy.
True. Jesters are not town, they are a separate group, but this statement is misleading in the context of the question.

I have since clarified this theory point outside the thread. In most games, the win condition for mafia is that their numbers must equal or exceed the number of non-mafia left alive. For example, a three-goon team in a setup with an SK must get the total body count down to 6 (if 3 scum remain), 4 (if 2 scum remain), or 2 (if 1 scum remains) to win, regardless of whether or not the SK is alive. Similarly, a Jester (though neutral) counts as a body against a scum win.

So, are you asserting that you were wrong then? Or am I missing something here?
I think I didn't understand the question. Anyway, whatever the question precisely was, this is the short answer: jesters are not town, but the mafia must kill the jester to win.

Crub: I'm hoping the replacements have something to add. I was kinda waiting for them.
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:02 pm

Post by Ythill »

Law wrote:Hm, can you say where Farside said she was frustrated?
In #274, which reads, "If you haven't noticed day one has been going on for 1 and 1/2 months now. Take in to consideration the lack of participation from others and that equals one very fustrated player."
Law wrote:And though frustration may cause antitown things, it is not always scummy.
Just because something isn't always scummy doesn't mean it is a bad reason for a vote. Law advocated an anti-town course of action citing personal frustration as the reason. Tar voted her for it. You defended her with reflective suspicion against Tar, which is another action that "isn't always scummy" but certainly makes me suspicious.
Law wrote:If he said something like "it was a joke" I could have believed him...
But how could Wolf know it was a joke? If he was town, he would be making a broad assumption, which is no better than the same assumption any one of us would make. If he put it forth as a definitive statement, he’d be lying. And if he said, “I guess he was making a joke,” what good would that do anyone? Your question was either entirely pointless, or it was fishing for a role.
Law wrote:You think wolf is protown?
I have no idea what Wolf's alignment is.
Law wrote:...this is the short answer: jesters are not town, but the mafia must kill the jester to win.
And yet your response to what should be done if Wolf is a jester? NK him. Interesting.

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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:32 pm

Post by Twomz »

I'm currently looking for three replacements. Sorry I haven't been around more, hopefully I'll be able to put more time into the getting everything running smoothly now.
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:40 pm

Post by Lawrencelot »

Hm... shall I claim yet? Or wait for replacements?
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:36 am

Post by IH »

I live!

With much prodding from Ether of course.
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:12 pm

Post by Ythill »

Checking in.

Sorry, new job is keeping me really busy. I've been looking in occasionally but haven't bothered to post because the game is moving so slow and, frankly, I'm multi-tasking at this point.

Anyway, welcome back IH. I'm looking forward to meeting wolf's replacement and getting this game moving again.
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:14 pm

Post by IH »

I've made it to page 8 or 9, and I think alot of the arguments going on in that part of the game... well, they aren't to indicative of alignment, other than I think Law and whoever else started the argument with him is townish (Can't remember).
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:05 pm

Post by Ythill »

IH wrote:I think Law and whoever else started the argument with him is townish
Why?
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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:44 am

Post by Lawrencelot »

Don't die, IH!

Is Ythill the only town here, besides me? I can imagine scum not posting...
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:47 pm

Post by Ythill »

Law wrote:Is Ythill the only town here,
besides me
?
Now it's a valid question. :)

A game is really moving slow when the above is all I can think of to post. Come on people! Post! I've finished three other games since replacing in here.
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:21 am

Post by Ythill »

I am going out of town on business this week. Will be bringing the laptop and should have internet access at my hotel, but I may have even less time for games.
Please consider me LA from 4/7 until 4/11, just in case.
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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:19 pm

Post by Lawrencelot »

I'm away for 7 days, with no connectivity.


Great, inactive players, an inactive mod, and the active players are gone...
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