Micro 768: Geriatric Grey Flag Nightless - Game Over

[Hopkirk]

Over two weeks and BV either hasn't caught up, or is faking not having caught up. This seriously isn't acceptable.
Reckoner being happy to put a vote down on aynone other than BV is just insane.

[xRECKONERx]

I said I wasn't putting a vote down until the bv situation is resolved

Really disappointed in the mod here

[Jingle]

@Jingles: Why do you have Reckoner as town?

Gut, mostly.

There's a bit more than that, but it's all more subjective than anything, and the core of the matter is that I don't need to reevaluate my read on him today, given the strength of my read on Key. It literally doesn't matter fmpov if I'm wrong and he is scum, assuming I can convince him to bus.

For shits and giggles, though:

His trajectory on me made sense from a town perspective, his feelings wrt to the game have largely mirrored mine, and meta that I either won't or can't talk about for reasons that I either won't or can't talk about.

Which all adds up to a light townread. Now normally, I'd be open to reevaluating that, but I kind of don't have to, because Key is obvscum FMPOV. Not because she hasn't played well, but because of interactions outside of her control. I expect I won't have much trouble arguing through that lynch when I get around to it.

[Hopkirk]

I'm fine with a key lynch.
The problem is that you aren't happy to follow with a BV lynch.
Despite having Luca/BV as scum all game :~

'Hopkirk- Probably not scum with Ray, Key, Insanity.' what changed this btw in regards to Hopkirk/Key?

[xRECKONERx]

@mod: blackvoid is due for yet another prod.

[insanity018]

VOTE: Hopkirk

I am most comfortable with voting Hopkirk today, on the chance that the other scum is not Keychain, but Jingle or a distancing BV slot.

Hopkirk, I asked you those questions because it wasn't clear from scanning through your recent ISO. I wanted to know how you specifically got from not seeing any scumteams without Korts (344) to not seeing a scumteam with Korts (344). This is a massive 180.

Hopkirk's had a 'bad gut feeling due to vague memories' (424) for suspecting Korts. In other words, he didn't have a clear, specific reason. So, if his suspicion of Korts was so vague, how could this cause such a strong scumread that he could not see any scumteams without Korts? How could this suspicion be so concrete that Hopkirk started doing ISO's to find Korts's partner rather than find scum generally? This doesn't seem like a town-motivated approach to looking for scum.

So then, Hopkirk becomes pushing a Reck/Key/BV scumteam. Korts has been relegated to unlikely to be scum. Hopkirk's explanations of his change in thought process is unconvincing. He says that he did a complete re-read of the game, which caused him to re-evaluate. He insists that his previous read of Korts had been without any ISO basis. However, he had at least read Korts's ISO to conclude that he was probably scum with Keychain (367). He claims that the unlikeliness of Korts and BV being scum together was a factor influencing this change. This is despite the fact that he has vocalised the possibility of them being scum theatre or scum distancing on multiple occasions (385, 389). Hopkirk claims that this Korts read was influenced by a growing read that Reck was more likely to be scum. He gives these reasons in 398. Hopkirk's insistence that Reck's interactions with BV/Key are worse than Korts, seems illogical considering how when Hopkirk did ISO Korts, he had made arguments that Korts/Keychain had bad interactions with each other. The other reasons Hopkirk gives for preferring Reck are also weak for example disliking the flip to Ari (already explained as wanting to move the game along), Reck's lynchpool (already explained as relating to who had been on what wagon) and not realising Ray had been replaced. Basically, I don't like this leap from Hopkirk at all.

Hopkirk is either lying about his thought process or is pushing a clearly scummy thought process. I think that there is a Hopkirk/Korts team. I think that it is most likely that scum-Hopkirk realised that people had been contemplating the possibility of Korts-scum at the end of Day 2. He started talking about not seeing a scumteam without Korts in order to distance and get cred in case Korts did get lynched. But as the day went on and it seemed people weren't that interested in a Korts lynch, he conveniently re-read and came to a conclusion that Korts wasn't scum at all. I think he tried to make the 180 look less suspicious by talking about Reck and talking about re-evaluating, but there is no clear town thought process from Hopkirk's changes in read.

I also dislike how he's tried to handwave suspicions on CultofAthena as her being new, unprompted. This seems very defensive minded. I'm also having alarm bells of the number of times he's focused on talking about lynching BV. If BV is town, he will be the scumteam's easy mislynch. And if he's scum, there is so little information of him in the thread to get a solid read. It's white flag anyways.

[insanity018]

Hopkirk, I asked you those questions because it wasn't clear from scanning through your recent ISO. I wanted to know how you specifically got from not seeing any scumteams without Korts (344) to not seeing a scumteam with Korts

(344)

391

This is a massive 180.

Fixed wrong post number from above.

[BlackVoid]

Skimmed quickly at work but Hopkirk having me as a top scumread is pretty scummy. I was waiting to see who would have me as a top push as I'm currently the easiest push right now. Will comment on the rest of his case in a bit.

[Hopkirk]

Insanity:

There's a pretty clear divide between when I'd fully reread and when I hadn't reread.
I already told you why I flipped on Korts. Explained in detail. Don't bother asking the same question if you can't be bothered explaining how it's different to the last one OR why you didn't like the last answer. Say you didn't like it, don't pretend I didn't answer. Alternatively, read stuff before voting in daytalk lylo.

Looking for Keychain in Korts' iso was a matter of ctrl f, as I've said.


Putting forward thoughts at the start of day then reevaluating.
Not posting until you were finished reevaluating.

If you're seriously saying the first is a 'scummy thought process' I don't know what to tell you. Being open about your thought process is good. I have no incentive to do so as scum.

Complaining about 'defensiveness' in response to an attack is simply stupid. Do you even understand what defensiveness actually means? It's a very legitimate response to being attacked- especially when people are attacking me for things someone else did that objectively aren't scummy...

[Hopkirk]

I'm disgusted that BV has been tactically lurking and abusing the lack of mod intervention. It's abusing the game rules and It's insane that he hasn't been replaced.

How can anyone even see the slightest bit of townieness in someone whose spent 3 entire weeks avoiding posting anything- then complains that he's an easy push because he hasn't posted stuff.

VOTE: Blackvoid

[Hopkirk]

8 DAYS
70 hours

(4 minutes)

48.5 hours

(2 hours, 10 minutes, 1 hour)

85 hours
82 hours
45 hours

Space between Blackvoid's posts.
Also the post as 82 hours is explicitly lying.

[Hopkirk]

Even after the 3 prod mark there were two three day periods without posting. It's just absurd.

His claims about how far he's read are inconsistent throughout.

[Hopkirk]

That last one is 57 hours actually.

[BlackVoid]

@Hopkirk, my lack of posting certainly isn't ideal and it's understandably pissing people off. In the past months when I've had a much less demanding schedule, I used to be extremely active in games but that changed once I started working a lot more hours lately. My only real solution there is to take a break from playing mafia after this game so as not to burden games with low activity.

I'm not complaining that I'm an easy push. I completely understand that other townies would be skeptical or frustrated. What I'm saying is that I expected scum to use that to drive a lynch and further a scum wincon. It's part of the reason I'm more confident in Reckoner being town. Digging his heels in and demanding that the moderator take action only really makes sense from someone who is trying to sort my slot and not wanting to lose the game because a player is inactive. Your response fits in a lot more with what I expected from scum i.e. arguing that my lack of posting constitutes not being town. It feels more like you are trying to rally people to get pissed off enough to vote me and seal your win.

[Hopkirk]

Your posting does suggest you aren't town. I don't see why town would ever consider staying in the game in your position. Not having posted 11 days into lylo is akin to gamethrowing given your townread Reck put a vote down already and scum can quickhammer very easily here.

I've asked for your replacement several times.

UNVOTE: BV

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Keychain

Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner (team without BV) is more likely than Korts/BV/Reckoner (team without BV) or BV/Keychain/Jingles (team without Reckoner).

[Hopkirk]

Actually why do I have such a hard townread on Insanity. Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner looks pretty plausible here.

[xRECKONERx]

Your posting does suggest you aren't town. I don't see why town would ever consider staying in the game in your position. Not having posted 11 days into lylo is akin to gamethrowing given your townread Reck put a vote down already and scum can quickhammer very easily here.

I've asked for your replacement several times.

UNVOTE: BV

Uh, I haven't put a vote down. Why are you lying to BV?

[Hopkirk]

Oh right, that was Jingle.

[Jingle]

I'm fine with a key lynch.
The problem is that you aren't happy to follow with a BV lynch.
Despite having Luca/BV as scum all game :~

'Hopkirk- Probably not scum with Ray, Key, Insanity.' what changed this btw in regards to Hopkirk/Key?

I've had one of Luca/Korts as scum all game. Because I think their D1 interaction was SvT. I'm not gonna throw the game by lynching someone I'm not sure on when I could instead lynch someone I AM sure on.

The Hopkirk Key bit was mostly based on the Key sheep onto the CoA wagon, which in hindsight made much more sense from a scumpartner than I had remembered. Particularly, Key sheeping onto a scumpartner while also subtly disagreeing with the case would have been a great way to throw doubt on the partnership while demotivating the wagon. And Key is definitely smart enough/good enough as scum to have done that.

I'm around and reading, but I don't have a lot of time for this today. Presumably, I'm going to finish all of the work I've been putting off today. If I do, expect me to spend a bit more time here and available for discussion tomorrow afternoon local time (PST).

[Hopkirk]

I'm all for lynching Key here. He's scum from basically every perspective.
Any flip we get after the kill is fine.

What's stopping you from voting key now?

[Lord Gurgi]

I am attempting to find a replacement for BlackVoid.

[Keychain]

I've decided the chance you are scum is remote enough to not need consideration. The only way Key is town is if you are scum or my pairing reads are flawed. None of the arguments for my pairing reads being flawed have been in any way substantial or convincing. Hence, Key is scum.

This is at least internally consistent, though your excluded pairings are still flawed considering I don't think insanity is scum either.

I'm disgusted that BV has been tactically lurking and abusing the lack of mod intervention. It's abusing the game rules and It's insane that he hasn't been replaced.

How can anyone even see the slightest bit of townieness in someone whose spent 3 entire weeks avoiding posting anything- then complains that he's an easy push because he hasn't posted stuff.

VOTE: Blackvoid

Your posting does suggest you aren't town. I don't see why town would ever consider staying in the game in your position. Not having posted 11 days into lylo is akin to gamethrowing given your townread Reck put a vote down already and scum can quickhammer very easily here.

I've asked for your replacement several times.

UNVOTE: BV

VOTE: Keychain

Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner (team without BV) is more likely than Korts/BV/Reckoner (team without BV) or BV/Keychain/Jingles (team without Reckoner).

You're kind of all over the place here and I'm not sure what the voting is supposed to achieve.

Your unvote in 439 especially seems to contradict what you're saying there.

I said I wasn't putting a vote down until the bv situation is resolved

Really disappointed in the mod here

Are you wanting to see something in particular from the slot or is this just not wanting to move on with the game until we've got a full playerlist?

[insanity018]

Insanity:

There's a pretty clear divide between when I'd fully reread and when I hadn't reread.
I already told you why I flipped on Korts. Explained in detail. Don't bother asking the same question if you can't be bothered explaining how it's different to the last one OR why you didn't like the last answer. Say you didn't like it, don't pretend I didn't answer. Alternatively, read stuff before voting in daytalk lylo.

Don't try to misrepresent me. I have quoted your posts, referenced your posts and specifically talked about why I think your posts are showing a scum narrative.

I find it hard to believe that a townie who can't put a finger on why they felt someone was scum, would also be so convinced that they spent the first part of this day phase doing ISOs only to look for that person's partner.

VOTE: Keychain

Insanity/Keychain/Reckoner (team without BV) is more likely than Korts/BV/Reckoner (team without BV) or BV/Keychain/Jingles (team without Reckoner).

Oh look, another conveniently changing scumteam.

How did Blackvoid's 438 change your mind? How did you go from voting BlackVoid and saying that 'your posting does suggest you aren't town'? (439) to now thinking scumteams without BV are most likely?

[insanity018]

I am also finding strange Hopkirk's reaction to being voted strange. As town who thought I was town, he should have been more worried about me voting him. He should have been trying to convince me that I was wrong and that I should unvote him. As even if he wanted to vote BV scum, he should have been more worried since my vote would have still meant town lost if scum quickhammers.

When he suddenly starts thinking I'm possibly scum in 440, 441, this is a sharp transition. And seems like an attempt to discredit and get a jump on why there has been no quickhammer as he knows I'm town voting scum.