Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[AP]

Yay I'm in real-time now.

VOTE: AP

I dislike both his mohab and oxy votes.

^Scum vote. They're always after me lucky charms.

[ruru]

Guys, I got the first freshly baked tinfoil hat theory just for you: scum!Dino and scum!the worst. Enemies of the heir ... beware.

I'm still curious to hear your full reasoning here

[AP]

gonna need help reading ofrhz

Sorry, mate. I don't read German.

[AP]

while we're getting stuff of our chests

Not interested. I'm hetero.

[AP]

Honestly know nothing about AP

That's a first. How would you like to get to know me better?

[ruru]

[AP]

I want to hear something interesting from:-
Draynth
UglyDuck
AP
Scioness Sajj



loosely in that order [:

Here's something interesting from me for you to hear

[AP]

If you call me English one more time I'll shoot you.

I may or may not be talking about the game.

Found the Irish / Welsh / Scotsman?

WHOLY SHIT! That's IT. This is SCOTT EVIL.

[AP]

Good answer.

Why did you vote Oxy

The way you out it makes me look like his compulsory complementary second half: moron! I thus have to go after him.

[ofrhz]

Now, you're all "ruru is new, man" so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to comment on the context of the vote [...]

You've said you're new yourself (how many games have you played?) so you get a bit of slack in this regard, but not that much, because you also seem to be quite a logical fellow.

I mean, you haven't even asked ruru about their vote, so it's kinda hard for me to accept you're thinking about the motivation behind it while not trying to encourage her to think about and then explain it.

To be honest, I only thought about ruru’s motivation for her vote because you asked me to. I have her as a strong townread, and her vote on you didn’t change that for reasons I have already explained. I also didn’t see your vote on me as scummy bc like I said earlier, I don’t think you realized that many people were nullreading you (whereas ruru conceivably did not make the same conclusion). ...so like why would I ask ruru about her vote of my own accord?

I do think you have a valid point in getting people to be more clear when voting people, but if I were to crack down on this, I would be a big hypocrite in this regard, not to mention I don’t think I’m in any position to be coaching anybody yet. This is my second mafia game.

You've said I'm singling you out. Surely that's implying that I'm ignoring other people?

Ah I see where you’re coming from. No it’s implying you chose to vote for me for something that multiple people did. But for the last time, I believe you didn’t realize multiple people were nullreading you.

Who am I ignoring? I've pinged and pressured ruru about it, I've pinged skitter about it, so I'm clearly not ignoring them.

To belabor this point, i don’t think you’re ignoring anyone.

I am passive-aggressively (if that's even the phraseology) telling people who are sheeping math's read that I'm not happy they're doing that, so I'm not ignoring them.

Hmm this definitely went over my head and might have been too subtle

I explain what I meant by "people not town reading me" here, in p.edit2, which you quoted in the second of the two quote blocks above, meaning I'm confused why you need to ask the questions you asked in the first of the two quote blocks.

Yes and I understood your explanation here. But my post with the answers in purple (340) was made before you posted this explanation. Any successive posts (I think just 386) were made to clarify that post in purple, because I didn’t understand how you could have arrived at the conclusions you did.

You seem more interested in the reasoning behind me calling you a liar than saying that I failed to adequately explain to you what I meant. Why is that?

you were either misunderstanding me fundamentally or were/are moving the goalposts around. For example, the falsehoods I allegedly perpetuated and me saying you were ignoring other people were two things I did not do. And now you accused me of not genuinely thinking about the motivations behind ruru’s vote, but like.... I only tried to think about her vote because you asked me to.

I can see why you thought I said you were ignoring others though, so I’m kind of leaning towards you misunderstanding me from the very beginning.

[ofrhz]

The way you out it makes me look like his compulsory complementary second half: moron! I thus have to go after him.

Man, I just want an explanation for why your vote was and still is on Oxy. This doesn’t have to be as painful as a visit to the dentist

[AP]

^That's an obvious slip if I've ever seen one. Ducks don't have teeth, so how the hell do you know how painful it is to visit the dentist?

I voted oxy because I wanted to. There's no case if that's what you're asking. I didn't move my vote because I don't have a serious scum read on anyone still. I don't want to jiggle my vote around for no reason or purpose.

[skitter30]

also i think

that's

a perfectly valid reason to scumread someone. it's how i've caught scum-NSG 100% of the time lol

What's 'that' referring to?

but definitely willing to wagon ofrhz

I'm not right now.

He was. He said he was a page or so back.

The reason he gave for prioritizing you was really pro town

Actually, I remember thinking it was pro town moments after I voted The Worst.

I didn't know about all this meta stuff at that point,

so I felt low key bad because I could have voted you just as easily and helped him sort you.

Yeah but since he's already started the game by prioritizing me, scum!math has to say that's what town!him would do, so the fact that he says that's what he would do doesn't mean much.

ie: idk if I believe him saying that town!math prioritizes sorting me in the playerlist.

@skitter reads on me please?

I don't have one right now. Hardnull.

Mathdino is obv!town

And it's because he's holding back

??????

Explain? That's what's making him scummy to me.

ofrhz (2) Sunshine13, skitter30

@brass:

I'm voting AP right now.

If you can wait until tomorrow night, I can maybe explain my viewpoints. Otherwise I don't mind being lynched.

I don't feel like scum say this tbh. I feel like they'd be more survivalistic.

@math:

2. Mohab feels kinda lynchbaity to me? Like if he's town he's where I'd expect scum to be pushing for a mislynch, and he did indeed get up to like L-2 with little resistance. That's why I'm kinda suspicious of people calling him a pl, like you did.

Next page in a bit.

[ofrhz]

what did you expect from me after seeing 4 people wagon on first page?

I expected a 5 paragraph essay + 10-item bulleted list with links to posts that explain your vote.

Tbh, same. And kinda expected you to say more than just talking about people's reactions to your entrance.

My post was a joke. I know Scioness likes to drop massive cases when voting for people, but I don’t think this assumption can be made for RVS votes.

[Mathdino]

"you're not obvtown yet even though you're usually obvtown as town"
is a valid reason for voting someone IMO

it's actually currently the case being used against me, haha

would lynch: Draynth, UglyDuck, ofrhz

[brassherald]

I fixed the vote count for skitter's vote but I'm phone posting so will not be redoing the order or updating the op for now.

[ofrhz]

Almost all the reads seemed super generic / possibly faked

This makes sense.

This same reasoning is making me doubt my townread of Scioness. I don’t really see an issue with her rvs vote, but her reads were kinda vague even if I agreed with most of them.

[ofrhz]

"you're not obvtown yet even though you're usually obvtown as town"
is a valid reason for voting someone IMO

Ok gonna try harder to newb town

[Sunshine13]

I have her [ruru] as a strong townread...

Why is this?

[Sunshine13]

ruru

I'd still also like to know why you townread ofhrz.

[skitter30]

UNVOTE: MathDino

SNIP

Thoughts in spoiler:

Spoiler:

AP - 1 or 2

small things

that lead me to believe he's town,

very little content so far though so this could be subject to change.

Can you specify what those things are? Italics feels kinda fence-sitty.

MathDino - I like his reasoning for scumreading TW, seems to be thinking about the game in a logical fashion.

I dislike his reasoning for scumreading TW, and I don't think that thinking logically is particulalry a towntell for him.

Oxy - I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he's saying here

Is this a reason to townread someone?

TheWorst - Seems to be trying super hard to be friendly, could be a playstyle thing but I've never played with TW before so I have no idea. Either way I agree with Math's reasoning for scumreading this slot

I don't get why you're voting here if you think it could be a playstyle thing. Don't get why you're sheeping math either

Tldr: feels kinda fence-sitty, and like leaving room to switch reads, and I don't really like his TW vote. Like it's all very vague, if that makes sense.

If I had to fake a readslist I would put Mohab as scum

This is exactly why I think he's kinda lynch-baity and where scum would go if he's town.

Now, you're all "ruru is new, man" so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to comment on the context of the vote, particularly when it will allow them - and other newer players - to use their vote better in future.

I think some context you might be missing is that me/ruru/ofrhz/math/scioness/pin/oxy all just played in a newbie game that ended like on Wednesday, and that this is the first non-newbie game (on-site at least) for ruru/scioness/ofrhz.

I don't think he'd necessarily go out of his way to mention that ruru is new in that context in that post, and I don't think he'd necessarily be going out of his way to try to guide her to vote better given that he's fairly new himself.

And I think that for most people who played in that game, ruru is fairly obvtown at this point.

(I've gone back and read the ofrhz/sunshine thing now)

This is when ruru said they weren’t townreading me either, and while

you implied you weren’t townreading me when asking someone else why they were townreading me, you didn’t come out and actually say you weren’t.

This is also why I don’t like ofrhz saying I’m ignoring other people for not townreading me, as mentioned previously: when I voted, nobody else had said as much, and when ruru voted me, I put some pressure on her.

You’ve joined that party, but I only have one vote *shrug*

What are you trying to say here? Like I'm not really understanidng the connection between the bolded lines.

I thought it was implied that I wasn't townreading you when I asked people why they were townreading you. I wasn't particularly scumreading you either, so much as I didn't get where the townreads were coming from.

Ah-ha! So you do trust in Dino being town himself here. Otherwise, why wouldn't scum.ruru try to distance herself from her partner?

Yeah, I'm saying that if ruru is scum and math is town I don't think she votes him there like that ever. From how she played 1859 I don't think she intreacts with a partner that spontaneously either.

Honestly know nothing about AP

That's a first. How would you like to get to know me better?

I don't get the gimmick but I'm pretty sure that the reasons I dislike your content are not gimmick-related tbh (specifically sheeping maths' mohab vote and the random oxy vote cuz oxy left him out of his readslist).

(If I'm wrong and those are gimmick-related someone please correct me)

My post was a joke. I know Scioness likes to drop massive cases when voting for people, but I don’t think this assumption can be made for RVS votes.

I mean,I wasn't literally expecting a 35 paragraph wallpost, but I was kinda expecting some sort of game-related reason for her L-2 vote.

"you're not obvtown yet even though you're usually obvtown as town"
is a valid reason for voting someone IMO

Ok gonna try harder to newb town

Kinda townreading this.

[skitter30]

@math:

2. Mohab feels kinda lynchbaity to me? Like if he's town he's where I'd expect scum to be pushing for a mislynch, and he did indeed get up to like L-2 with little resistance. That's why I'm kinda suspicious of people calling him a pl, like you did.

Can you address this? This is where some of the scumvibes are coming from.

[Mathdino]

@math:

2. Mohab feels kinda lynchbaity to me? Like if he's town he's where I'd expect scum to be pushing for a mislynch, and he did indeed get up to like L-2 with little resistance. That's why I'm kinda suspicious of people calling him a pl, like you did.

Can you address this? This is where some of the scumvibes are coming from.

what is there to address? you didn't ask me a question and i largely agree with this sentiment
i called out AP's vote when it happened too
if you're suspicious of me saying i'd be willing to policy lynch him, idk what to tell you other than "you should really get to know my playstyle better"
i didn't like his play enough and i didn't have any other scumreads to really justify moving off that vote at the time lol

i don't see why i'm the one that you're barreling after for the mohab wagon or why i need to address this

[skitter30]

OK math's more likely than not scum now.

what is there to address? you didn't ask me a question and

i largely agree with this sentiment

You tried pulling something like this in MKUltra when I scumread you there too.

Like you're agreeing with me and saying you get where I'm coming but at the same time downplaying what I'm saying. Also you're trying to say that town!math would do the exact same thing here.

It's weird to tell me that you agree with me but that you don't think the point I'm making is worth responding to.

Spoiler:

This is... literally exactly my strategy, yeah.

I get that you feel weird about it.

@Everyone scumreading my opening: What do you think town-Math does in that situation? More specifically...
1. Do you think town-Math even tries to lie low? (if no, this implies I'm lying about the nature of this hydra)
2. Assuming town-Math DOES lie low, how does town-Math do it differently in the opening?

You're correct

that I'm preemptively defending against people who expect too much of me.

i don't see why i'm the one that you're barreling after for the mohab wagon or why i need to address this

Again, you agree with me that I have a point so idk why you're questioning me pushing it.

Like you're townreading him for it and pushing a pl on someone you're townreading just cuz they're garbage-posting is stupid.

And that's exactly where I expect scum to be pushing here, so the fact that you did this is suspcious, as is the fact that you *agree with me that it's suspicous but are trying to handwave away this convo*.

Why you in particular? Cuz you wanted to pl even though you were townreading him. Also cuz I have to go back and see how the wagon built; you staying on the wagon stuck out to me cuz you later said you were townreading him there.

I don't think AP and math are both scum btw.

[Mathdino]

sigh

i don't wanna 1v1 you on D1 skitter

you're not in my townpool and this is unlikely to end well for either of us or the gamestate, you know that

can you give a basic reads list

if you want me to respond to your case i will but it's basically 60% "lack of knowledge of math's playstyle" and 40% "i saw him as scum once and he did [x] [y] and [z]"