Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[Ircher]

Oh wait, is teacher a main wagon? We should not lynch teacher please.

From what I've seen so far he is putting a lot of content out there and that is never the type of slot I want to kill day 1. I just checked and he only has 11 posts so that might not actually be true but like, I would prioritize killing slots that aren't producing readable content day 1, especially if I didn't have any scumreads I really believed in.

I disagree with this a lot; also, most of the read is on the former slot's posts, but it is not like the replacement has done anything to change that.

[northsidegal]

oh wow, scioness and nancy, great to see you both!

Hi! I just got home and I am about to take a shower and unwind before I start reading things. When are you around to talk and stuff? Also how are you feeling about this game?

not all that confident in my scumreads, but feeling pretty good about my townreads.

[northsidegal]

But, that being said, even though I don't really see where people are coming from with the meta read, it still makes me a bit gun shy; his swan song adds to that general feeling of apprehension.

Currently, I have confident townreads on the group of Nancy/Ircher/Vulcan/Draynth(?). I'm willing to swing on the 4 remaining outside of that group, but I'm happiest lynching one of the NSG/teacher group.

interested to hear where your scumread on me is coming from.

oh wow, scioness and nancy, great to see you both!

hi!!! glad to see you, too.

i'm not exactly sure what ircher is doing - it's a pretty far cry from the serious person of just a few pages ago. i feel like he's just throwing things against the wall - not even sure if that's more likely to come from town scared of getting lynched or scum.

why scared and not frustrated?

yeah, i guess "frustrated" would be a better way to put it - basically just recognizing that whatever they're doing right now isn't working and so going for something of a "hail mary".

1. ofrhz played a lot looser in 721 - he joined the game with 7 players he knew from his previous game; it also got him mislynched;

Exactly, it was a completely different scenario and a completely different game - saying that he had the same town game in both places seems unreasonable to me.

i never implied that it was exactly the same or anything - obviously the contexts are different. what i mean is that there are elements of his play that are consistent across all of the games that i've played with him such that i'd be surprised if his scumgame was that similar.

i guess newbie 1859 would be a better comparison for behavior than open 721 just in terms of having a similar environment: 721 was simply the one that came to mind first given its recent finishing and also draynth's presence there.

@Draynth,

interested to hear what you think of the comparison - i don't think you've mentioned it.

also, for the record, i'm definitely leaning towards scioness being town right now

[northsidegal]

it feels like there are only like 5 people discussing / really engaged right now. not sure what that says about alignment / the game state.

[Ircher]

It says we need a Lynch.

[nancy]

Nacho when you're around can you go over your Draynth read again? It's hard to say much without having read but I don't really agree with / understand that town read right now. Am mostly just going off your ISO on this. I'm town reading you and I think you will probably die tonight if you're town so I really want to focus on getting our towns in order before end of day.

Also I've been finding scum in my null reads so much lately so I kind of want to watch out for that and would be good if you could help me, once I do things and have reads. If you have time.

[nancy]

By "go over" I mean go over in your head. I'll have more specific / useful stuff to ask later.

[nancy]

ehh

VOTE: nancy

Dalekdalek

[Scioness Sajj]

ehh

VOTE: nancy

Dalekdalek

You didn't really do anything that would change how I see your slot. Not really a fan of other wagons

[teacher]

This game still feels like its stagnating, and Im about to go into my V/LA weekend. I will make at least a post a day and try to respond as best I can, but it is likely to be in evening (US) hours. Below, some reactions, some pressures, and my PoE/compromise pool and reasons.

First, I only had actual reactions to 3 of the posts following my 392.

I'm happiest lynching one of the NSG/teacher group.

NSG is in my PoE pool since she is pretty empty, but from meta outside this game Im somewhat inclined to give her a day since she is apparently a really good scum hunter who was v/la. I hope for more from her, but am open. Can I ask you (like I asked Rampage yesterday) to re-engage with my slot? I can track your case in 240, but that seems outdated -- it is based on Ofrhz's semi-push on vulcan (that I

had

backed off of, but see below) and the disconnect on Harambe (which I dont get, because I agree with my former self here; I disliked some of Harambe's start to the game, but liked some of the later stuff, which is how this slot is my most conflicted).

i believe you are aware that showing people what makes you have the read you do doesn't work as well as telling people why.

I too am looking forward to this. @Ircher, you said you were planning to be useful. Posting random numbers isnt that useful to me. It just invites people to get confirmation biased into their own cases, rather than deciding whether yours is sound. Can you actually explain a case on me (or someone else, since it looks from readslists that neither one of us is likely to go through, and Im interested in evaluating peoples' compromise pools?)

[Teacher] is putting a lot of content out there and that is never the type of slot I want to kill day 1. I just checked and he only has 11 posts so that might not actually be true

So I try to put in one significant post a day. I might get some shorter ones to respond to questions or if the game gets faster. But I dont thing pure numbers of posts says quite all that much. Appreciate the defense tho.

Second, some pressure for more than five slots to play.

Scioness, I am going to get to your questions and stuff tomorrow.

Fair enough. Please also dont overlook my 392, asking for thoughts on Nancy/Harambe. I get RL happens, but just find it odd that you have only 3 substantive posts (at most) since complainign when I called your spot null/low-participation.

hey, NSG

come and play the game with me please
--------------

Draynth, what are your reads right now? has anything changed?
Vulcan, some things have happened could you share your thoughts?

ECHOED LOUDLY.

(I saw you asked me something in your post teacher but I don't have time to read it properly or respond sorry.)

You've made nine posts since the questions, and four since this, all separated by multiple hours. Honestly, I didnt think the question was that hard -- it was where were you in your catchup?

Third, my reads updated

Towniest

Nacho, Scioness
Nancy
Rampage, NSG
Draynth, Vulcan
Ircher

scummiest

Not much has changed about Nacho since 319, nor Ircher since 340, though I also disliked Ircher's intentional obliqueness in 347 + 359 and the comparision between 429's lynch-happiness and the earlier no-lynch vote.

Scioness has moved way up. The way she is providing analysis and trying to get slots to play is good. I dont think scum wants the kind of attention she is getting, nor would they make an unexplained vote on a new (or at least renewed) wagon three days before the deadline.

Nancy remains a very conflicted slot for me. I see very towny aspects of the play, but also some that I suspect. I really want people to share their analyses of her/harambe because I dont feel good about my own. My internal conflict is, however, one of the reasons I am seeking an Ircher flip, because I see some associatives between these two slots.

Rampage and NSG are still low participation nulls. I would compromise lynch here if it continues or is necessary, but feel like they offer the least information.

Draynth and Vulcan have moved WAY down for me. This is largely due to their silence. I find this particularly surprising from Vulcan, who had just escaped being lynched AND had his biggest scumread pushed. His asking me to make the case, rather than making the case himself, along with the silence may be scum trying to stay out of the limelight after having been targeted and not get the blame if Ircher turns out to be a mislynch. Likewise, Draynth may be quiet now because of the comments from multiple slots on associatives with Vulcan. All that said, I also accept Vulcan's professed loss of interest (which, unlike Ircher, is consistent with how he is acting).

My PoE/comprimise pool at this point is basically the bottom five on this list, and will be refined over the weekend based on how people participate.

[nancy]

ehh

VOTE: nancy

Dalekdalek

You didn't really do anything that would change how I see your slot. Not really a fan of other wagons

Why do you expect me to do something that would change how you see my slot before I have even read the game or formed reads? Why weren't you voting harambey before? I don't think it makes sense that you would judge a replacement shortly after they come in before they have a chance to do anything and say that they aren't good enough if you were genuinely interested in figuring out their alignment. I've made posts even if they haven't been anything substantial yet, why haven't you said anything about them or talked to me at all? Why haven't you bothered talking to Nachomamma about his read on me, since he strongly believes that I am town?

Why are you voting as though only the current wagons are viable lynches? Are you only scumreading the people who are being wagoned right now? If not, why do you not care that no one else is scumreading them except you and why are you content to just shruglynch a replacement because they aren't fast enough at providing content for your liking? If you are town and you really just can't be bothered putting in any effort, why did you replace in? I don't really understand your mindset here at all.

Maybe knowing what your reads are would help me understand but I don't think so.

[nancy]

I just finished a 19-hour work "day" but I had a couple of clients at the end who were really great so I don't feel tired right now. I'm around until I pass out if anyone wants to talk wihle I catch up.

[teacher]

I'll play for a bit. Where are you on your catchup? Why would you sheep Nacho, especially if you dont expect her to have better reads as you've said? What are your own reads across the board (though this depends on the first)? What takes 19 hours ? (Im a lawyer who is transitioning to teaching, so often subbing during the day and lawyering at night, so I feel your pain).

[nancy]

Scioness has moved way up. The way she is providing analysis and trying to get slots to play is good. I dont think scum wants the kind of attention she is getting, nor would they make an unexplained vote on a new (or at least renewed) wagon three days before the deadline.

Why would scum not make an unexplained vote on a new wagon three days before deadline? That line of reasoning doesn't make any sense to me. I don't think there's any good reason why mafia wouldn't do that so if you think there is then please explain. I don't understand why you are townreading her for getting attention either. Do you townread anyone who gets attention? If not, how and why is Scioness' situation different? Do you realize that it's basically unavoidable that you will get attention at some point in the game, and you don't have much control over when or whether that happens?

What in particular about the way she is providing analysis is good?

Nancy remains a very conflicted slot for me. I see very towny aspects of the play, but also some that I suspect. I really want people to share their analyses of her/harambe because I dont feel good about my own. My internal conflict is, however, one of the reasons I am seeking an Ircher flip, because I see some associatives between these two slots.

Do you think it makes sense that I would come in and immediately get into a spat with Ircher and say that I would policy lynch him if we were mafia together? If yes, why/how? Explain my thought process in that world.

Draynth and Vulcan have moved WAY down for me. This is largely due to their silence. I find this particularly surprising from Vulcan, who had just escaped being lynched AND had his biggest scumread pushed. His asking me to make the case, rather than making the case himself, along with the silence may be scum trying to stay out of the limelight after having been targeted and not get the blame if Ircher turns out to be a mislynch. Likewise, Draynth may be quiet now because of the comments from multiple slots on associatives with Vulcan. All that said, I also accept Vulcan's professed loss of interest (which, unlike Ircher, is consistent with how he is acting).

(This is why you don't do angleshoot-y reads, Nacho.)

If you accept that Vulcan is disinterested regardless of his alignment, why are you still scumreading him for it?

What in Vulcan's posts makes you think that he is scum trying to stay out of the limelight? Are you just guessing? Because I think that's a hugely unreliable and irrational and overall terrible way to read someone if you are, especially when you have actual content from the slot to work with. Has Vulcan posted anything that seems like he is preparing for Ircher to flip town / knows his alignment?

[nancy]

I'll play for a bit. Where are you on your catchup? Why would you sheep Nacho, especially if you dont expect her to have better reads as you've said? What are your own reads across the board (though this depends on the first)? What takes 19 hours ? (Im a lawyer who is transitioning to teaching, so often subbing during the day and lawyering at night, so I feel your pain).

Page 2, rip. I've read Nacho's ISO as well, though.

Nacho identifies as male. He and I are really close when it comes to mafia, we understand each other really well and that makes it really enjoyable for both of us to play with each other. I would sheep him if I didn't have any real sense of my own reads because I trust him and respect his game. He doesn't usually let stupid shit influence his reads and that's important.

My only real read is Nacho town. Like 10% above rand maybe?

[Ircher]

@Ircher, you said you were planning to be useful. Posting random numbers isnt that useful to me. It just invites people to get confirmation biased into their own cases, rather than deciding whether yours is sound. Can you actually explain a case on me (or someone else, since it looks from readslists that neither one of us is likely to go through, and Im interested in evaluating peoples' compromise pools?)

No, I'm not going to go into an entire case.

If you want explanations for SPECIFIC posts (and that doesn't mean ask about every single one), I'll oblige; otherwise, I'm not elaborating.

[nancy]

I'm townreading Nacho because I don't think the thing I was talking about earlier is very meaningful and the way he is talking about his reads feels honest. I agreed with a bunch of things he posted and disagreed with other bits but I didn't feel like he was making shit up. It's not a very solid read because I haven't read any of it in context and I don't know what half of the stuff he is referring to is but it's day 1 and I'm happy with it for now. If my catch up makes something clear that wasn't before or if he does something really scummy or if one of my scumreads flips town then I'll go back to reassess and see if I might be misreading him but until then I am pretty satisfied with putting him aside and thinking about other slots.

[nancy]

"He didn't state a reason, so I voted for him" - why do you have a policy of voting people who don't state reasons?
"Didn't state mine since no one really asked him why for his vote" - I don't understand what other people's reactions to him has to do with how you approach him here; it seems a bit backwards to me. Like, I could see if you were voting for someone and didn't feel like stating reasons because they've already been said but I don't understanding voting someone and NOT giving reasons because no one else seemed to see or care about the same thing you did. Help me out?

His vote didn't have a reason compared to others that at least posted something though nothing concrete, it's my first game and I'm still testing the waters, I'm also waiting if someone would question my lack of reasoning since I don't know if not giving reasoning is that common or not.

I mean, it really depends on the player. Some people (much to my annoyance) never give reasons and others do all the time. That said, I think it is preferable to give reasons so others can follow your thought process.

*cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* *cough*

[Ircher]

I have reformed; that tactic obviously didn't work earlier so.........

[nancy]

Ircher, do you think your time is too important to spend on explaining yourself, or something? Because your playstyle is pretty unbearable and it seems like you revel in making it unbearable and making other people's game experience unenjoyable just for the sake of it.

[nancy]

I have reformed; that tactic obviously didn't work earlier so.........

""""""""tactic""""""

[nancy]

I would post awacalus memes but no one here would understand. Except maybe Nacho.

[Ircher]

Ircher, do you think your time is too important to spend on explaining yourself, or something? Because your playstyle is pretty unbearable and it seems like you revel in making it unbearable and making other people's game experience unenjoyable just for the sake of it.

Did I say that? No. Though, I do think it is a waste of time to explain myself when a) it will get me scumread, 100% of the time b) most people dismiss/ignore it anyway unless they are scumreading me for it (see a) c) is there really a point to explaining when scum can like 90% of the time refute whatever I say?

[nancy]

If you're not going to play the game, Ircher, then replace out.

[nancy]

You need not concern yourself with bothering Huntress, either, since I know of someone who is interested in subbing in and you would be doing the game a service by removing your toxic attitude.