I’m also interested in chibie. There’s like 0 reason to be pushing Aaron today - he hasn’t done anything scummy and was basically yesterday’s consensus tr I see that more as a way to appear solvey while salting the ground for lylo paranoia. I also don’t like the change in playstyle across days. I could see that as a partner for salad, which I suppose is my compromise slot but I’d rather try to sort players that haven’t been consensus scum-read as much.
Either way, as yesterday, it’s time to start consolidating.
Apologies for being inactive, very busy in real life.
Will post a later on today. This is also a good opportunity for me to hardclaim town tracker.
Visited Goeff (pardon spelling) last night. He was killed though.
Have some interesting teacher / spartman thoughts I’ll expand on later, but just wanted to claim here.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:42 am
by teacher
UNVOTE: VOTE: chibie
See logic above.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:44 am
by teacher
Gimm1ck did you crumb?
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:47 am
by Chibiie
Posted from phone:
@Spartan
, you answered my questions, which puts you on a solid Townread on my list.
I think my posts are pretty clear, is just that I add a lot of irrelevant info to the actual game, but relevant to the Mafia game overall. It's my play style. Expect this from happening in future games too. I'm live-streaming my thoughts on puzzle-solving.
@teacher
, I don't really understand how my play style changed, it's been like this since D1, but as I said, I had no info to work around. Now that there's D1 + N1 green flips, I can connect dots. I don't really like being put in this "coached" area.
I was just about to claim my intention to hammer in within the next 10 hours (I really don't want to reread a slot), but Gimm1ck just claimed tracker. While this may be true, I'm curious if anyone else counter-claims that. Tracking George and unfortunately he died, could be a lie.
In the meantime, I will put my vote here: VOTE: Yoda
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:16 am
by Chibiie
@Salad
, I do believe that my "sudden change of mind" is the only reason for why Aaron voted me. If is not, then I believe he doesn't really like my logic? I'm not sure if there is another reason besides that, I cannot seem to find in his posts.
I would like to know better the reasoning of my voters.
Spoiler: Updates list
Town:
Spartan
teacher
- somehow null-ish town
Neutral:
Aaron - his push doesn't really makes me turn against him, I don't even feel like defending myself in this situation, yet he's the one who started this "coached" thing and associated me with Salad. My clash with him could actually be pointless, but will not drop this and will sort this slot as the game progresses towards D3.
Gimm1ck - if nobody counter-claims, he straight-up Town 'til the rest of the game.
Scum:
Salad
Yoda
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:19 am
by AaronFrost
I think Gimm1ck flips town unless someone counterclaims tracker.
Will catch up and respond to stuff later.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:25 am
by AaronFrost
In post 426, teacher wrote:I’m also interested in chibie. There’s like 0 reason to be pushing Aaron today - he hasn’t done anything scummy and was basically yesterday’s consensus tr I see that more as a way to appear solvey while salting the ground for lylo paranoia. I also don’t like the change in playstyle across days. I could see that as a partner for salad, which I suppose is my compromise slot but I’d rather try to sort players that haven’t been consensus scum-read as much.
Either way, as yesterday, it’s time to start consolidating.
I mean the reason Chiibie is pushing me is because I was pushing him. Do you think his push on me is OMGUS?
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:56 am
by Chibiie
@Aaron
, I doubt you read my posts because they're long, but I'm not the one who placed a vote on you. Never associated you with someone and ultimately never pushed you. I presented my logic, you, yourself said that changing reads is a towny trait yet you scum read me for scumreading Salad?
I don't see the logic. You're contradicting yourself.
As a policy I do not crumb because scum can pick up on theoretical crumbs and hunt for PRs that way. Especially when I did not get anything really tangible from the result.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:48 am
by Yodavader
Assuming that Gimm1ck isn't lying, I am going to VOTE: Salad.
In post 389, teacher wrote:Im loving that everyone motivated (or pretend motivated) to do NKA. And I agree with a lot of it - I do think this was a PR snipe attempt, or an attempt to avoid the obvious protection candidates (Aaron>me).
Im most suspect of those that didnt find a PR hint. On rereading, I thought the repeating word could be a role claim.
In post 82, GeorgeBailey wrote:1. What is your experience at Mafia
This is my first game. But I've a lot of the variants of Mafia.
2. How do you play as town
I'm guessing you gotta just be
friendly
and deduce suspicious actions
3. How do you play as scum
I'm guessing I have to be secretive and get innocents lynched
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town
Scum:
Eagerness to Vote, defending player for no reason.
Town:
Friendly?
Skeptical of baseless lynches.
5. Time zone/standard posting times
EDT
To be clear, it wasnt a claim, and I didnt think it was. In fact, I thought George claimed VT in his first post.
In post 390, teacher wrote:EBWOP: The reasoning -- avoid protective candidates, and seeing friendly neighbor possible claims -- suggests to me that we are in Row B.
What I find interesting is that teacher put out there that we could be in Row B and Gimm1ck's claim would fall under that possibility. So, that is the one thing that's put a little doubt in my mind.
If Gimm1ck is lying, he could have used this post as path to find a plausible role to claim.
But as of right now, I don't see any reason for Gimm1ck to lie.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:32 am
by AaronFrost
In post 409, Chibiie wrote:
I've took the time to read through your ISO and start connecting the dots for our plays. You'll be pretty surprised by the end of this long post. First, I will open by saying that I can now clearly understand who played before together and that is you, teacher, Dong and Salad. You and all SEs played together, that puts us in a funny situation.
I've played with teacher before, but not the other two. I've played a game where Salad was the mod though.
In post 123, AaronFrost wrote:Yeah distancing is a pretty common scum tactic but I think it's pretty unlikely that scum would be distancing from each other on Day 1, especially in a Newbie game.
Yep, I get the logic behind the tactic, however, I don't see myself and Salad doing this. I will make time to come back with a "briefing" post on my own ISO and chain my posts in order to present my logic so far and who I think scum might be.
In the event of you/Salad, you probably are townreading each other on Day 1, which you were. Distancing would be if you were scumreading each other.
In post 125, AaronFrost wrote:Alright so looking through Saladman's meta, so far it does seem pretty consistent with town!Salad. I think my vote is better placed here honestly.
VOTE: Dongempire
Really did not like their case against teacher. teacher wasn't responding to the fact that he was at L-1, he was responding to Spartan when he seemed to imply that he was okay with hammering on page 2 and I think teacher's response is fine because of that. Not necessarily saying it's townie, but it's definitely not scummy.
So you did town!Salad too back in D1, right? Indeed, you first voted him for his #54 and mislynch concerns, but you did later read his meta as consistent and town!Salad. I've noticed you didn't post a list D1, only recently you did.
This is getting interesting, seems like I am not the only one that has changed his mind.
It was more of a nullish townlean, but yes there were others I found scummier at that moment. I also don't post a reads list unless prompted to, which I was.
In post 329, AaronFrost wrote:[...]
George's hop on feels scummiest to me right now. Yoda is still a hard null for me, but his vote on Dong also feels pretty sheepy. Salad's is okay because it seems like he had a purpose for putting Dong at L-1 (trying to increase their activity level), but I'm still having a hard time reading that slot. teacher is probably the towniest person on the wagon right now, and of course I'm obviously town
So even though the votes in the last page are troubling, this is fine if we get a town flip. And if Dong flips scum, then that's even better because we can look at who was defending them/trying to bus them at the end of the day.
Well, I think that George's hop was scum too... Yoda jumping on that wagon too? Yep, fishy.
Salad had a reason, yes, teacher had one too after being pushed in RVS, however, what was your reason?
I'm not really sure how people read obvtown on this platform... I don't see very solid reasoning behind your jump, was it due to teacher being pushed in RVS? Were you backing up town!Salad's attempt to increase Dong's activity? It was D1, not much info, lynch was needed, I'm not going to assume this was scummy. It was a standard D1-lynch process.
I didn't like the case against teacher and the contradiction of "teacher's reaction was NAI" followed by "teacher was panicking." Game was (still is) slow so at that point any kind of wagon on someone would be beneficial.
In post 350, AaronFrost wrote:Well thanks for narrowing down my scum pool I guess. I was going to push George today because he was playing pretty scummy.
I know, right? Scum should've known that he was going to be pushed too and get a different target in order to clean Townies easier for D2/N2. NK was a throw off. Salad's randomness? Yoda's lurking? In my own ISO "briefing" post that I want to post before we lynch, I will present my thoughts on who's scum.
I could see Salad being the kind of player to make this sort of kill which is why I started with a vote on him today.
In post 378, AaronFrost wrote:I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.
I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.
I would like more info on this. You've already posted your list and then came up with a contradiction, I mean, at the end of my post I've posted what everyone can read in the Mod posts, so don't take my request as FoS. I'm genuinely curious of how you associate me to Salad. What puts me in this light to you?
Yeah I can expand.
Basically it's the sudden shift in your read on Salad. I read 280 as you were townreading Salad, and even if the read was neutral at that point, the sudden shift just feels unnatural to me. Seems like you were trying to distance from him on Day 1 and now you have an opportunity on Day 2 to go with the crowd that's scumreading him. Not 100% sure if Chiibie would bus him that quickly into the day though, so for now Chiibie/Salad team is just a theory.
Funny that this idea of me changing my mind has been pushed by someone who voted Salad in the beginning of D2, when earlier in D1 he was calling him town!Salad, right? So am I the only one changing his mind? Your change was faster and more sudden than mine.
Such a plot-twist of behavior
I was not hard-townreading him like you were though. There were other players I was focused on in that moment so it was more of a "I'm gonna push him to the side and get back to that later" kind of thing.
Your change in read was more sudden because from #296 where you say you stand by your Salad townread to #362 where you come out scumreading him, we get no indication that you've changed your mind on him.
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:09 am
by AaronFrost
In post 409, Chibiie wrote:
I'm glad I took the time to re-read your ISO as I have completely forgotten what happened during D1. I believe I have a progressive list and no "sudden" changes... I will reinforce that Salad was put as Town in my first list, however, I did call him my most neutral read. It was not a
sudden change of mind
, but a progressive one, logically speaking. What's written down may not be 100% relevant to what's in my head.
If he's in your town list, then he can't be a neutral read. Also...
In post 401, AaronFrost wrote:I don't like playing the whole "well I'd do this as scum" card because that gets very WIFOM-y, but I will say one beneficial move for scum here in my eyes is to keep George alive and kill one of the more active players so that this already slow-paced game becomes even more slow paced,
which is what's starting to make me think that one of the more active players is potentially scum.
I would like to ask a question, now that I think about it.
Could you define "active player" to me?
In that context, players who were trying to push the game along and steer us towards a lynch. Specifically Spartan, teacher, and yes even me if you want to add me to that list.
Double replacements are statistically scummy - scum are twice as likely to replace out compared to town across :0 games (I analyzed this in one of my newb games in the 1940s and correctly found scum).
Chibie is kind of sheeting you, my strongest tr, and because I can’t pair saladman otherwise (possibly yoda). I also really don’t like the push on you - could be chainsaw in addition to omgus.
I’m in class but a little around. What didn’t you like?
