Mafiascum.net

In post 4242, Titan wrote:

In post 4231, PeregrineV wrote:

In post 4223, Titan wrote:You know what Peregrine. I'm not going to respond to you. I've already answered the questions you're asking me. And quite frankly I feel like you're just trying to look busy. I would maybe make an effort to explain myself to you but we saw how well that turned out in the Board Game. I quite frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with your apparent inability to see that the questions you've asked have already been answered.

My ISO is awesome in terms of scumhutning, but hey baby cakes glass houses.

but in case i wasn't clear. I'D CLAIM TO THE ENTIRE DAMN THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SCUM KNOW WHAT I AM. I WAS INTERESTED IN SEEING HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

You don't have to. You just have to keep freaking out when someone asks you a question. And refuse to answer it.

Spoiler: Tammy scumhunting

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

Tammy wrote:

In post 34, LimMePls wrote:So, I was able to read Feysal's reply to my mass-alignment claim idea, and I now see what he meant about it being terrible. So ya, I don't think we should do that.

Vote: Rang Tangler

Still not RVS. Others should vote here too.

What about Feysal's argument swayed you? In my last post before the crash, I noted that you were rather overbearing in the way you backed up your argument and countered arguments about it. You seemed completely certain your way was the right way. What changed your mind.

Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you? You originally placed your real vote on him after he claimed to not have the intellectual capacity to contribute to the conversation, then offered up some possible roles based on alignment, and then claimed ambivalence on the argument but was intrigued.

How is this a scum tell?

Subject: Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

Tammy wrote:

In post 439, Zdenek wrote:I can totally grasp why people find Norman scummy, but on the other hand I am not reading him as scum, and his lynch is one that I don't see myself supporting, unless someone has a better argument for why he's scum than those that have already been presented.

I especially dislike LMP's attack against him for voting Kondi because they were both voting that slot for the same reason, trying to blend in and I find the idea that a vote is worse for coming immediately after a vote count distasteful.

Tammy has found her way onto my scum list with her recent posts. She looks to me like she is trying to be aggressively unhelpful by questioning people's attacks (just to be clear, the issue I have is with the volume of these sorts of posts coming from her, I don't actually think that doing it is necessarily scummy). For example:

In post 108, Tammy wrote:Also, what about Rang Tangler screamed scum at you?

In post 409, Tammy wrote:You were voting Zdenek in the last thread and now you're voting AurorusVox. Did you change your mind about Zdenek?

In post 418, Tammy wrote:Is there anything else you find suspicious about Shadow1 besides him changing his vote to CoolDog after getting called out for keeping his vote on Foxace while calling him town?

In post 427, Tammy wrote:You highlighted that you are voting Norman for using think and might in regards to someone maybe being a scumbag. Do you find that scum are more likely to use words which make one seem unsure or town?How often do you tend to find scum by word choice?

Additionally, the fact that she is not voting reeks of unnecessarily cautious play, especially when she's been attacking Foxace. I looks as though she's checking to see if she can drum up support for the wagon before getting on.

I'd still like LMP to explain his rationale behind his strategy of lynching to maintain balance between the sides.

Thank you for this. This post absolutely made my night.

Questioning people is good...it helps generate discussion and allows me to evaluate people. Interaction is good.

So, you don't have a problem with me questioning people, it's just the volume? Is there a quota I'm not supposed to exceed on this site? Am I only supposed to ask a certain number of people questions on certain days that I wasn't made aware of? I comment on what interests me or I leave it alone.

There happen to be a lot of people in this game, and a lot has interested me.

You know, I've reread the questions you quoted just to make sure, but I'm not seeing how any of them are invalid questions.

But I always find it interesting the people who try to halt others from having conversations with people.

OK...so which is it? Am I aggressively unhelpful or am I unnecessarily cautious? I really don't think you can be both at the same time.

Nope you're right...I'm not voting right now, and I won't be voting until tomorrow or Friday. I don't really care about the support I have for whomever I decide to vote for. If people disagree, they disagree. That's the nature of the game.

Actually, that entire game is an excellent example. We (town) won, and you had 465 posts the entire game. You are currently at 451 in this game. If you could answer me, which 3 posts are your single biggest contribution to advancing the gamestate?

...are you literally posting an iso of mine from two freaking years ago to use as meta. Are you? Are you serious?

You're asking me stupid questions that are already answered or are such common freaking sense I have no idea why you ask them. I also have no freaking idea why I'm continuing to engage with you because conversations with you go nowhere because you either have no ability or actual desire to see where someone else is coming from that it's like talking to a brick wall. Do you remember our discussion in the Board Game? You know the role fishing one? Where I explained our thought process and motivation a million times and you still didn't get it. OH and hey guess what Porkens did misinterpret his role information which is what we were trying to solidify.

NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

FFS

ACTUALLY YES. IF YOUR META 2 YEARS AGO WAS EFFECTIVE, AND IT WAS, WHY WOULD YOU CURRENTLY CHANGE IT TO BE LESS EFFECTIVE?

AS A MATTER OF FACT



YOU ARE NOT ANSWERING QUESTIONS. YOU'RE GETTING PISSED I'M ASKING THEM.

TELL ME HOW TO EQAUTE TAMMY-TOWN ROLE PM = TAMMY GETTING PISSED WHEN ASKED QUESTIONS. CAUSE IT'S HARD TO SEE.

In post 4227, AngryPidgeon wrote:BRO: Can you explain your CF town read to me like Im 5 then? Or Derperado I guess assuming ya'll are on the same page there.

If I were to do it like you were 5, I would say "because I said so"

The wall about me was really fucking town. His play during day 1 trying to parse through the early shitshow that happened was really town, the way in which he responded to Nacho at the end of day 1/in the neighborhood QT overnight was really town.

I don't have time to write up a full case because I have a paper due in like 50 minutes. Maybe I'll get around to it at some point.

In post 4249, Titan wrote:VOTE: PV

In post 4240, The Fox and the Hound wrote:I'm almost ready to have another go at this.

It looks from these two pages like PV is scum.

In post 4241, The Fox and the Hound wrote:-Ceph

Bring it.

In post 4215, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:shit took off after I fell asleep, so rewinding a bit

In post 4175, CarbonFiber wrote:Who are the people that you would be willing to lynch come deadline? This is more so we don't have crazy flashwagons the day of the deadline.

This is without consulting Ffery, mind you:
1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
7 MastinSSK (Mastin2, MafiaSSK)
9 AngryPidgeon 9 ElementalHawk (Prohawk+3dicerolling)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
14 Cupcake Panda
15 PeregrineV
16 Clyton

(I do still think there's scum in my top tier town reads, but I'm not willing to act on that until I have a better idea of who it might be)

We're not that different. Nacho, RG and Clyton are above my willing to lynch line as it is currently drawn. Maybe peregrine as well but that's mostly because I'm taking a chill pill after misreading him as scum in a few recent games.

In post 4245, Nachomamma8 wrote:He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

Can you talk about your reads and what you learned from the day 1 deadline madness?

In post 4245, Nachomamma8 wrote:He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

<.<
>.>

In post 4256, The Fox and the Hound wrote:

In post 4245, Nachomamma8 wrote:He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

<.<
>.>

It's bullshit that happens more than it should.
There are certain players who have the right to pull it (hi notscience!), there are certain players who don't.

Peregrine - I don't like interacting with you because you are annoying the everliving shit out of me (this I probably would have kept to myself/should have kept to myself but I'm going to stoop to your level after the defecating remark and quite frankly I'm not in the best place mentally to really think clearly so, deal). I don't like the questions you ask because they are stupid and don't go anywhere and or have already been answered like a million fucking times. Let's take the neighborhood stupidity. It's already been answered. I've already talked about the neighborhood, Falcon already saw where I was coming from, it's the most clear fucking thing in the world and yet for some unknown reason you don't fucking get it. It's just like just fucking like your role fishing accusation in the Board Games which drove me and pless so fucking insane because it was so obvious what we were doing but you kept harping on your point of view or how you were reading it and it ended up being a distraction because you don't actually read fucking shit when someone explains something to you.

So, for instance you say you haven't hear anything from the neighborhood, except then you go and point out all the times I did mention my neighborhood. No, it's not the most active neighborhood in the world. He hasn't been around a whole lot, and as I said AT THE START OF THE FUCKING DAY, neither was I or would I really be. It's really none of your business what we've talked about in the neighborhood beyond what I already fucking said in the damn thread.

And I don't care about claiming when I am the role I am; I offered to claim yesterday. I don't care if scum know what I am because it REALLY DOESN'T FUCK MATTER. And, you know what? If anyone asked me to claim, I'd probably claim because I DON'T GIVE A DAMN.

I'm not pissed off at someone asking me questions, I'm annoyed at you because of the stupid questions and you know what maybe I'm still annoyed at you from the Board Game game. Sometimes I'm good about not holding onto frustrations from previous games and letting that go but right now I'm a little not quite right and things are bothering me longer than normal and I just wanted to punch you so many times during that game and you're making me feel the exact same fruking way. And I'm fucking pissed off because I've been trying like hell not to lose it in a mafia game and you're asking stupid fucking question and your attitude fucking sucks.

And using two year old meta is fucking stupid when you have more recent more relevant meta. And fuck you with less effective. If I recall, part of the reason why we didn't end up losing that game when half the town wanted to blindly lynch me, ffery/cabd, and aun was because of my efforts that last day before I got killed, so take your less effective and shove it up your ass. You don't know how to use meta and you shouldn't try.

In post 4255, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:

In post 4245, Nachomamma8 wrote:He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

Can you talk about your reads and what you learned from the day 1 deadline madness?

My significant pull from deadline madness was a cut off dick if wrong townreads on you, orc, JSU.
Currently, I only care about mastin.

I will feel so justified from day one bullshit if Mastin turns out to be scum...doubly so if it's also Rancid.

Because that will mean it's in Cabd's scum contract and I'm not just some stupid omgus, I can actually tell when attacks on me aren't real.

I still don't think Rancid was scum.

But Mastin probably is.

Have you read his posts to ffery from last night?

Yes, I have.

In post 4207, MastinSSK wrote:

In post 4203, Breakfast With Sandy wrote:I've been exercising extreme restraint for days now, thinking that I had a bias problem going on.

You do. Listen to your words. You've given up on the one damn thing.
ONE. DAMN. THING. Above all others!
That the ffery I know is best at. At bridging gaps. At mending rifts. Not tearing them wider. You're not trying to understand.

So if you're town. I have only one thing to say to you at this point:
What. the.

fuck

.

I don't know what you need. To take a breather. A step back from this game. Out of it entirely. Just mafia in general. A lecture. A rant. A diplomatic letter. I don't know you well enough to know how to push the right buttons to make you actually be playing mafia again. So bluntly, this will probably be offensive. I'm not going to tell you that you need to leave the game. But I have every right to demand something of you, if you are town.

Get your shit together

.
Or at least have the guts beyond muttering "I'm done" to admit that you haven't.

This is abrasive. To be frank, it's fully possible it'll tick you off even more and make things worse. But they're words that need to be said in some form or another. Someone else can say them less offensively, more diplomatically, more nice, in a more polite tone. But bluntly, you are not yourself. So if you are town. Give me my town-ffery back. Because this? What you're doing right now? Isn't her.

This is the worst of the series.

I agree. That reminded me of this:

This is his response to me in Attack on Titan when I was scum reading his slot:

I'm really good at this game!

you wish!

And this particular rant to ffery is bad considering angry-Mastin earlier in game. He considers himself a mediator, a diplomat... and when ffery's diplomat hat slips off a little bit, he gets offended why exactly?

In post 4268, Titan wrote:you wish!

my initial thought was "this is a scum mastin post if i've ever seen one" and boom, it really really is

he's part of the arc that seems like it's positioning for a ffery lynch that's bugging me.

In post 4242, Titan wrote:NO WAIT SERIOUSLY ARE YOU POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META AS YOUR BASIS FOR READING ME WHEN THE BOARD GAME GAME IS LESS THAN A MONTH OLD AND I'M ACTUALLY MORE ENGAGED IN THIS GAME THAN IN THAT OTHER GAME THAT JUST ENDED AND YOU'RE POSTING TWO YEAR OLD META.

:/ :\
I really don't get whats so egregious about this that is making you rage. Its old meta. People reference old meta semi-frequently, antihero referenced ~2 year old meta of me recently and I just told him he was wrong.

In post 4245, Nachomamma8 wrote:He had me on confirmed would game throw levels of town because he wanted me to feel good. He flopped on me because he's trying to pull the same "Nacho townreading me = Nacho town and Nacho scumreading me = Nacho scum" shit that Ceph pulled in ASOIAF.

Alright Nacho, Bork left me with a weird taste in my mouth so I need something from you. Why is your mastin read is whatever it is right now? I kind of like this reaction; it sort of gels with what I'd expect given mastin's post, even if this is potentially just confirmation bias, but details please.

In post 4247, Just Sheep Us wrote:That wall about my response this game to my response in Wicked is so far in my head that I don't think scum could possibly get there.

WELP. I can't really argue against this point at all. This feels wrongto me though. Why is CF "so town that anyone scumreading him is stupid/scum" when the reason for you townreading him so strongly at all is due to his opinion of an OUTSIDE GAME matching yours. I certainly haven't spent more than 5 minutes skimming that game and I dunno who here actually -has- read it.

But literally none of F16's post was good analysis, it was all IIoA:

In post 4059, CarbonFiber wrote:- Consider the amount of emotional involvement that BRO has had in the game versus Wicked. Once he and Desp got themselves involved and placed that vote on Rancid, we were dealing with a very tense gamestate and BRO's personal involvement in the game was incredibly high. This was compounded when Rancid were insulting BRO every step of the way. I think the insults furthered the amount of emotional investment that he had in the game and the more they insulted him, the more personally involved he got into getting them lynched. This isn't unusual. When someone is kind and friendly, but a player thinks that they are scum, that player wouldn't be as desperate to get their opponent lynched and they'd be less angry if their opponent got away. What Rancid did in the game was heighten tensions between them and BRO. They trash-talked, insulted BRO's posting, tried to rile him up, took digs at him, challenged him to a gladiator match, sized him up etc. There was really no end to what they did on D1 and you know how Muffin gets when he really wants to rile someone up. I think that BRO reacted to this by getting even more invested in their lynch and wanted them lynched very, very badly.

Tl;DR: Rancid was baiting BRO with trash talk. Tensions were high especially as a result. Is it REALLY alignment indicative to want to lynch someone a lot and be invested mroe because they are talking shit? Fuck no and F16 is sort of implying it is without saying it which is also crap.

In post 4059, CarbonFiber wrote:- This level of investment doesn't happen very often and the way Mala and Cabd/Penguin persued him in Wicked was markedly different for these reasons. Penguin even told me later that she wanted to work with BRO and had that happened, she would have chosen to neighborize him N1. Malakittens didn't bait BRO, she didn't insult his posting and make him badly, desperately want her dead. She played a fair game and won. Considering that, I wouldn't expect BRO to have the same fury at being lynched in place of his target during Wicked. He was lynched by players that genuinely liked him and cared about him and went about it in a decent way. While he was frustrated, it is not to the extent that it was here.

Tl;DR: BRO didn't act like he did in wicked when getting lynched, but its justifiable. Ok, so? The point? That doesnt mean BRO is town at all.

In post 4059, CarbonFiber wrote:- Now onto the mechanics of how the lynch happened. BRO-Desp, Pie, and I were pushing the wagon on Rancid and it seemed likely that it would go through. At least upon Pie's replacement, the likelihood of a Rancid lynch magnified. This gave BRO hope that they would be lynched. The wagon stalled at times, and I could sort of sense BRO metaphorically drumming his fingers on the table waiting for the lynch to be pushed through at deadline. It was by no means a guarantee, but there was a good chance it would go through and I think BRO was waiting on tenterhooks for it to happen. It was almost assured that he, BRO, wouldn't be lynched. It was either going to be his choice of lynch (Rancid), or a lynch he would prefer not to happen (a lurker), and that was the dichotomy that BRO was looking at. Nacho came in and starting shaking the wagons around just when momentum on the Rancid wagon was stalling and I could tell some of the hope was lost and the disappointment started to etch through like a crash after a sugar high. It became apparent that he would fail and all the work was for nothing. I think anyone would be disappointed and upset.

Tl;DR: BRO REALLY wanted to lynch RBD. Once again, not a fucking tell? Not by its own at least. This is more IIoA and while I tend to agree with his conclusion, his way of reaching it feels excessively drawn out because it looks better than simply stating that BRO's zeal felt town.

In post 4059, CarbonFiber wrote:- From that emotional state, I think the final straw that broke down BRO was the sudden flashwagon on his slot at deadline. So, here we had BRO pushing the Rancid wagon by slowly working through obstacles to finally get this lynch through, and all of sudden, it seems not only is his adversary getting away, but he himself was being wagoned with no resistance at all. It was an astonishing sight to watch from the outside and I can see why BRO who was the target would meltdown at that point. After all the insults from Rancid, the sizing up, the dick-measuring, everything, and he, BRO is target of a dumb deadline wagon that some people hopped onto without a care in the world. This wasn't the case in Wicked. He was battling a worthy opponent (Malakittens) and she won fairly. There was frustration if you read the Wicked thread closely. BRO was annoyed. Just not as much as he was here.

Tl;DR: This is not BRO from wicked, but his meltdown made sense because he was getting wagoned for no reason. Once again, this has no actual opinion in it. Just an enormous waffle stating that BRO being upset at being wagoned makes sense. Guess what? Scum get upset at being wagoned for shit reasons too! I know I have in pretty much all my scum games ever.

In post 4059, CarbonFiber wrote:-

Look at it from a scum POV: there is no way BRO as scum is this invested in getting a lynch

. He wants to survive sure, but the burning desire for Rancid to die and the constant and consistent efforts to make it happen is highly unlikely to come from scum. This is most of what I was referring to from the neighborhood. It is apparent that BRO wants Mastin and Rancid both lynched with an intensity that I've rarely encountered before. He didn't meltdown because he cared about surviving as scum. I think he melted down because his efforts were not only ignored, but at a very, very crucial, critical point when he was losing hope in achieving his goal, the wagon, almost unbelievably turned right at him and it was no longer a question of whether he could get Rancid lynched but of whether Rancid could get him lynched.

Tl;DR: Ok, first off the underlined is terrible. Scum get invested in lynches all the fucking time (Majiffy in Street Racers, Dr.Pepper on me in that Micro game, off the top of my head). Scum aren't just playing to not get lynched. Scum are 100% capable of being emotionally invested in the game and getting upset when they lose, its just human nature. F16's case sure is a lot of words, but I really don't like the points he is masking in all his smoke here.

--

Why is F16 talking about Wicked mafia so much since he agrees that BRO acted differently there? If he thinks BRO was different in Wicked Mafia, why the fuck is it such a central part of the wall in his explanation for BRO being town? It shouldnt be and he keeps restating the same goddamn point which comes back to "Well ok BRO wasnt like this in Wicked mafia, but I think RBD taunting him makes it make sense here". The rest of his case is mostly restating that tensions were in fact high on D1 and that BRO's meltdown, was not in fact scummy.

Basically the entire wall is arguing that
1) Scum wouldn't tunnel on RBD (despite RBD tunneling on them and insulting them on a personal level)
2) The meltdown was not explicitly scum motivated and looked genuine.
with enormous amounts of unnecessary references to wicked mafia to talk about how BRO was different there.

What the fuck actually resonated with you in this pile? There is no actually good analysis in their other than those 2 points ^ fluffed up ad nauseum with references to wicked mafia thrown in. F16 is 100% capable of making the point that you behaved differently in Wicked mafia as scum. Its really REALLY obvious that games are always different and that this one has been an emotional clusterfuck from the get-go.
So what are you seeing there that looks SO TOWN MOTIVATED that they must be town?

In post 4272, AngryPidgeon wrote:Alright Nacho, Bork left me with a weird taste in my mouth so I need something from you. Why is your mastin read is whatever it is right now? I kind of like this reaction; it sort of gels with what I'd expect given mastin's post, even if this is potentially just confirmation bias, but details please.

Confirmation bias? How do you figure that?

I could see that if I was still calling mastin town, but I'm not.