Mafiascum.net

In post 4366, Faster Than Light wrote:Mac, can you see why I'm skeptical of Antihero's cop-claim, especially since it's limited and could only cop until it caught two innocents? It's awfully convenient that Antihero is a cop that we have no way of confirming as a cop.

I could fully see a scum player (even traitor) 'confirming' two town (or even scum-buddies) while claiming in the same way Antihero did.

More than that, though, I could see there being two limited cops (me as non-consecutive VanillaCop & Antihero as 2-Town-then-useless Cop) in a setup with a small handful of PR-based scum.

That's why I'm suspicious of you and Antihero.

Not enough to damn you to the hells, but enough to seriously consider spending time in your ISO's.


P-EDIT:

@zMuffin: I'm reading right, just skeptical.
I wanted evidence to pin on TF. If TF was lying about having a PR, it'd be damning. As it stands, I think the scum team has plenty of PRs, but I doubt they are -all- power roles (hence why I am suspicious of Nacho). I was trying to use my power more like a lie-detector than anything else. How is Vanilla Cop traditionally used? I don't think it'd do us much good to just VC unclaimed people, but, at this stage, maybe it is.

So, scumVenmar claimed PGO in his first post and then heavily breadcrumbed his results (who he was convinced that he would get a guilty on during the previous day, by the fuckin' way) all as part of an elaborate ruse to later fake claim a weird role. Then he tops this genius scum maneuver off by REPLACING OUT before he can actually claim the role. Because he's just that committed to sending up false signals.

Your mud-slinging is noted.

And it reeks of desperation.

If we're lynching a claimed PR tomorrow, it's Varsoon.

Right on.

Please show me the crumbs for Venmar. I'm confused to why he wouldn't cop Mastin given how strongly he felt about him. I don't see the motivation for cop'ing the people he did, or where he talks about his finds in relation to his PR. If anything, it reads really awkward and plays into the nagging idea that he's a traitor if there is one. OF course, I could WIFOM this forever, but, yeah, please show me what you're seeing that I'm not, zMuffin.

That said, I'm on board for giving a bit of a closer look at Nacho, Desperado, BRO, and AJ. I feel like they've kinda slipped by until today despite doing some questionable things. I feel that Nacho is the most town out of the group, but that he's also most experienced, so that may be due to his play being that good.


P-Edit:

@Antihero: Or maybe I'm willing to give more agency to a hypothetical scum-Venmar because that's exactly the kind of bullshit I would pull as scum. Replace out wouldn't matter if he wrote down his whole plan in the scum QT, either.

That said, I'm willing to believe your claim, it's just that I don't buy Venmar's play as pro-town. I'm skeptical. Misrep my skepticism as mud-slinging all you want, but I'm going to voice how I feel about people's play, rather they like it or not.

The vast majority of scumbags aren't Batman villains, Varsoon.

Crumbs can be found on Venmar's first post of the day on days 2 and 3. Spoiler: they're not subtle, at all.
Day 2: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5269791
Day 3: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5309208

In post 4377, Faster Than Light wrote:@Antihero: Or maybe I'm willing to give more agency to a hypothetical scum-Venmar because that's exactly the kind of bullshit I would pull as scum. Replace out wouldn't matter if he wrote down his whole plan in the scum QT, either.

That said, I'm willing to believe your claim, it's just that I don't buy Venmar's play as pro-town. I'm skeptical. Misrep my skepticism as mud-slinging all you want, but I'm going to voice how I feel about people's play, rather they like it or not.

This assumes that all townies play a pro-town game.

They don't.

Yes, Venmar was not pro-town. But he obviously has a pro-town role, and you wheedling like this is really sketchy. I know you're not stupid, so I'm forced to conclude that you're deliberately sabotaging my 99% confirmed town status trying to squeeze in some reasonable doubt.

In post 4369, Nachomamma8 wrote:There's also not an actual reason to lynch me.

But there aren't reasons to lynch you either, which given your normal MO is disconcerting for obvious reasons.

@ftl,



also, something to think about if you're still doubting that there could be two (limited) investigative roles in the game is that RM's role could have easily had the ability to fuck with either of these (it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume she could probably assign some sort of godfather/ascetic passive to a scum buddy).

In post 4377, Faster Than Light wrote:I feel like they've kinda slipped by until today despite doing some questionable things.

Oh yes, being one of the main suspects in days two and three and interacting with everyone in a bunch of ways during that time is clearly me "slipping by."

Clearly.

I'm not the kind of person who 'confirms' someone as town because they claim a town PR.

Even if TD and Mac both die and flip town, it doesn't confirm the role.
The only thing that confirms the role is if the mod confirms to us that it is, in fact, your role.
Ergo, I don't give a damn.
I care more about how you play, and what you do within the inclusive game-space.
I have no more reason to believe your Not-A-Cop-Anymore claim than I do Venmar's PGO claim.

As for those crumbs, I read that as ISO'ing a player over night. Guess it does make more sense in that context, but, still, the fact that zMuffin and others could see it also means that you could see it and fabricate a fake claim around those 'crumb's.

Basically, I'm going to read you based off of the play that I can actually analyze, rather than WIFOM speculation on PR shenanigans.

That said, the way Venmar played, and your claim in light of that, it's pings as really awkward to me. I'm suspicious of your slot. I'm willing to believe your claim, because it would be a really outlandish scum strategy, but to blindly believe the things you have to say isn't really my approach.

Does this make sense?


P-EDIT:
Fine, fine, I'll buy Antihero as Cop-but-not-cop for now. I'm still not going to blindly believe all the claims so far, though. zMuffin's points about RM's role in relation is what really sells it to me. The obvious crumbs can be done as scum just as well as they could by town.

@Bro: Read earlier where I say I don't suspect you nearly as much as I do AJ, Desp, and to a lesser extent, Nacho. Those three are much more suspicious to me. You've been a fairly consistent town-read of mine all game. I'm willing to look at you in-tandem with zMuffin and others in order to come to a consensus on your alignment, but that's not my top priority right now.

OK varsoon, because I like you I'm going to let this go, but I am going to say that I just want to shake you right now because this is the epitome of overthinking it when the cigar is just a goddamn cigar.

i'm not particularly convinced bro is scum atm, just that he's among the players i'm not reading as town and potentially scum. i think one of him and AJ is scum, i don't think they're scum together (especially if nacho is scum).

just skimmed nacho's ISO

why are we lynching him?

By the way varsoon you should have checked BRO last night, because then you'd have had data on both me AND him. But whatever. If bro is scum, he's lower priority, since if he had a PR it's byebye.


Let me organize all the claims n shit.

In post 4366, Faster Than Light wrote:I wanted evidence to pin on TF. If TF was lying about having a PR, it'd be damning.

Also this is shit, bud. You're playing a PR trying to make what you want to be true to be true. Not what does the best for town.

I don't normally do this, but this video perfectly summarizes my feelings after catching up:

In post 4377, Faster Than Light wrote:That said, I'm on board for giving a bit of a closer look at Nacho, Desperado, BRO, and AJ. I feel like they've kinda slipped by until today despite doing some questionable things. I feel that Nacho is the most town out of the group, but that he's also most experienced, so that may be due to his play being that good.

In post 4382, Faster Than Light wrote:@Bro: Read earlier where I say I don't suspect you nearly as much as I do AJ, Desp, and to a lesser extent, Nacho. Those three are much more suspicious to me. You've been a fairly consistent town-read of mine all game. I'm willing to look at you in-tandem with zMuffin and others in order to come to a consensus on your alignment, but that's not my top priority right now.

Varsoon has no fucking idea what is going on right now and he's talking so much that he can't keep his story straight. It would probably take me a week to sort through everything that is wrong with Varsoon's opening to today.

Can we lynch him now?!?!

In post 4383, Antihero wrote:OK varsoon, because I like you I'm going to let this go, but I am going to say that I just want to shake you right now because this is the epitome of overthinking it when the cigar is just a goddamn cigar.

Haha, it's cool.

I'm coming down from the absolutely manipulative and frenetic scum-play that I was using in Open 512 and Calvin & Hobbes mafia, so I'm still in the mindset that scum are Batman villains. I'm more willing to believe that scum is capable of absolutely insane play because I've been there recently.


Let's get our shit together. I didn't like how divided and passive town has been in the last two days.
I liked the fervor from D1.
I wanna see more of that.
I wanna contribute more of that.

P-EDIT:
@Anti-Hero: I'm really confused how he's at L-4, to be honest.

@Desperado: Figured you'd be at my throat again. What's your issue with my posts? Because, as I see it, the ones you quoted actually answer each other.

@Trust Fund: Damn, you're right. I guess I got tunnel vision. I had you as one of my top scum reads. I wanted to validate that read beyond what I was saying, to have something worth-while to put down and put forth in order to get people on board with what I've been arguing for the whole game. Yeah, it was a shitty use of my power. I'm swearing at myself for not using it on BRO. Why the fuck didn't I see that? Again, I guess I was tunneling you too hard and now I feel like an ass for it. Yeah, I'm feeling that you're more town now than before. Yeah, I made some shit plays. Rubbing it in isn't cool, though.

-V

Consiter nacho havin four votes his extra gift of motivation to tell us who to lynch, since he's been pasive the past few days. If he's town, it's go time.

aj wrote: But again, supersaint is an incredible lylo role. Why would you want out now?

town supersaint that can only kill town does nothing in lylo

In post 4332, waynegg wrote:

In post 4291, Andrius wrote:i am not reading that, wayne

just trust me as you once did
the ring must go to frodo

I'm trying really hard to trust you here, even though you opened here pretty much how you opened there.

I am telling you to trust me.

In post 4333, waynegg wrote:Try trusting me. There's been a whole lot of unexplained 180s this game that getting hit by an Inquisitor as defined by the mafiawiki would explain.

You rely too much on the NAMES.
What happens if a role flips something that ISNT on the wiki? What will you do then? What would you do if bork DIDNT tell us what the fancy names did?
Names are irrelevant.

2shot cop
and vanilla cop
is weird as hell
with an INNO and MASONS

Maybe, andy. I think that the angle of rach being able to fuck with those if she isn't lynched might be a counter. We'll see.

and a tracker-neighbouriser, but i don't actually think it's all that weird, depending on the number of scum (not ruling out the possibility of 6 scum) / strength of their PRs. given the flipped scum roles, it's not _that_ unlikely they could all be town. roleblocker-redirector + passive-inventor seems like pretty good counter-balance, not to mention other possible scum PRs (bulletproof if AJ is scum, for example)

In post 4389, Faster Than Light wrote:@Desperado: Figured you'd be at my throat again. What's your issue with my posts? Because, as I see it, the ones you quoted actually answer each other.

No they don't. Your first response says Nacho is your biggest townread of the four. Later you say that Bro is the towniest. How do they answer each other?

In post 4359, Trust Fund wrote:Hmmm.... I smell a mass claim today given that all the town reads have claimed and most scum suspects have yet to.....

In post 4360, Mac wrote:

vote FTL

this is great

nacho wrote:Then if someone who hammers doesn't die, they are confirmed scum, no?
Does the last townie on the wagon die, or no?

yes.
the plan D1 was to get RM to hammer me home, confirming her and removing BOTH of your D1 suspects.
But she wasn't around so that was problematic.

If the person who drops the hammer is town, they die.
If not, they don't.

nacho wrote:And maybe Andrius. I'm not sure that a supersaint who only kills town would be called a supersaint, considering every other role with modifications has a new name.

my ability name is Supersaint
My GREENTEXT will give zero hints to my role.

In post 4394, Trust Fund wrote:Maybe, andy. I think that the angle of rach being able to fuck with those if she isn't lynched might be a counter. We'll see.

I definitely agree

my whole LET ME SIT AT L-1 AND TELL YOU WHAT WILL HAPPEN should be the biggest hint ever that im not vengeful

not having an avatar is already decreasing my IQ
I feel like I am benmage