Mafiascum.net

In post 3963, Solstice wrote:even under the assumption that one of them is town and the other is scum that means we have 3 other scum to find
~mist

Alternatively, both are scum and there's only 2 other scum to find.

With one being Creature.

And the last being one of {Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Dunnstral}, with Dunnstral being the least-likely due to him being the most likely to be town.

But if there is 3 other scum to find due to only one of DEB/Bell being scum (I will never cease to be an advocate of it being both, but I'll play ball with entertaining the idea of DEB being town counterclaiming even if I personally feel both are scum), then I'd say it's both Toogeloo and MURDERCAT.

In post 4393, MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 4338, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:PIIIIIICHUUUUUUUUU

like Creature is definitely LHF town-town - literally everybody wants him dead.

there is no universe he flips red.

The inverse of this is also what makes Noraa scummy FWIW

Are you seriously scumreading us because you don’t see people wanting to kill us?

Like hello, Toog, you and Norwee voted us. And iirc, didn’t quite a few people vote us on D1? Are we reading the same game?

Have you even considered the fact that you are so confibiased on us and very likely paranoiaong on Noraa because of Death Curse that you are reading her wrong? That literally happened to her in I think it was Haunted Village? Where she got miselimed D1.

And why are you ignoring my posts? You only ever comment on Noraa but never on my posting. Why is that? Don’t you have an opinion on that or what?

I have my read on you and nothing you've said has changed it. It's out there if Pooky wants to explore it further.

Besides I unvoted you already

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

In post 2883, mastina wrote:

In post 2794, Creature wrote:In general it's pretty clear scum are outlouding town and getting to dictate a bunch of mishits for town to hit while they surf under a constant circlejerk created by them.

This is also pretty transparently not the case--the vast majority of the loud town players are either obviously town or have already flipped town. It's a rats-ass-backwards take: the scum are, pretty obviously, letting the town be at each others' throats, a trait made easier by lurking and letting TvT fights take place.

Reading this. I think Creature’s take on this is bad but I don’t see why it’s necessarily scummy? In Death Curse I had some pretty fucked up takes and got pocketed by half the scumteam.

In post 4402, MURDERCAT wrote:I have my read on you and nothing you've said has changed it. It's out there if Pooky wants to explore it further.

Why not? I don’t think you’re giving my posts equal weight.

In post 4403, MURDERCAT wrote:Besides I unvoted you already

VOTE: Dr Easy Bake

So you believe Bell’s claim but not DEB’s. Is that right?

In post 4405, Polar Bear Express wrote:Why not? I don’t think you’re giving my posts equal weight.

That is correct

In post 4406, Polar Bear Express wrote:So you believe Bell’s claim but not DEB’s. Is that right?

I think there is probably at least 1 scum in there, and now that I think it's possible there is 2 scum in there + the weird crumb stuff I like the idea of going DEB first.

In post 3986, Double the Trouble wrote:What reads do you have if Creature is town?

IF Creature were town (he's not), then I'd lockscum Bell and DEB and then look heavily into Toogeloo and MURDERCAT in particular, with a possible side of Dunnstral.

The same goes for IF Bell's town (he's not); I'd lockscum Creature and DEB while looking heavily into Toogeloo and MURDERCAT (albeit less Dunnstral in this one).

I genuinely feel like there is a POE pool of six that, very likely, contains all four scum, with a very high chance:

{Dunnstral, Toogeloo, MURDERCAT, Dr Easy Bake, Bell, Creature}.

Individually, Dunnstral looks the towniest of them.

Individually, Creature looks the scummiest of them.
Individually, Bell looks the second-scummiest of them.
Individually, DEB is DEB and someone that FL could always count on as scum due to DEB and FL being intimately familiar with one another so DEB as town represents a threat to FL whereas DEB as scum is his greatest asset and off of DEB's contributions so far it looks a lot more like he's FL's asset than he is a threat to FL so I think there's a high chance he's scum.

Individually, MURDERCAT's reads and stances the whole game have looked like scum to me and there's literally only one scenario that would make me think otherwise. He's a lower-priority sort for me, however, specifically because given more time, that one scenario will either become debunked or confirmed. If it is debunked, then he's a high priority for being eliminated as an incredibly likely scum candidate; if it is confirmed, then he is someone we'll never eliminate due to him being town. I personally feel that the one scenario for him being town isn't the most likely, but time will tell there.

Individually, Toogeloo's highly null. He's not someone I'm scumreading, but overall, his stances and takes are no longer resonating with me as being town. He's not a high-priority sort because there's four names that I feel are more likely scum than him, with one of them being a low-priority sort, but if MURDERCAT's one scenario of being town is true, then Toogeloo is very highly likely to be scum.

Individually, I do loosely feel like Dunnstral is town, weakly so here, but that is the read that this day phase has been most in flux, and if too many of the names above are town, then by necessity he would need to be scum. But I do genuinely feel that the only way he is scum is if literally two of the above names flip town--which makes him a lower-priority sort, as we should flip names above him before considering eliminating him.

One name flipping town from the above doesn't change this solve.
Two names flipping town from the above still doesn't change the solve.
It'd literally take three of the above names being definitively town for me to consider a different solve right now because I am that confident that these six names contain the solve, pretty conclusively so.

In post 4409, mastina wrote:Individually, MURDERCAT's reads and stances the whole game have looked like scum to me and there's literally only one scenario that would make me think otherwise. He's a lower-priority sort for me, however, specifically because given more time, that one scenario will either become debunked or confirmed. If it is debunked, then he's a high priority for being eliminated as an incredibly likely scum candidate; if it is confirmed, then he is someone we'll never eliminate due to him being town. I personally feel that the one scenario for him being town isn't the most likely, but time will tell there.

Did you read my post to you?

In post 3990, Double the Trouble wrote:i think his posting this phase has been significantly better than d1 that's for sure.

You're gonna need to explain to me what Creature posts those are that're better because today is, by and large, the same as yesterday if not .

In post 3999, Dunnstral wrote:ah Murder is scum

Not guaranteed, but with a reasonably high probability? Yes.

In post 4018, Double the Trouble wrote:do you see anything that is shown in the setup twice cuz I sure as hell don't!

Oh they exist, I literally reviewed a double-doc game, but they're notably rare. I've seen them before. Double doctors beyond the one I reviewed; double trackers happened at least once; double millers has definitely happened; double neighborhoods (as in, two separate neighborhoods of two where all four were town); etc. They exist, they're just rare.

I've normally not been really quoting Ircher posts with points unless I felt a need to argue with them, but I feel particularly compelled to make a positive reaffirmation here, in that:

In post 4014, Ircher wrote:

In post 3492, Creature wrote:This feels very townie. Not sure if it will matter though.

I disagree. Bell's actions post-claim do not seem to be in accordance with what Bell wrote. As they say, "actions speak louder than words." If Bell puts those words in action, maybe I will reconsider.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
Bell has not put those words into action thusfar.

In post 4014, Ircher wrote:Oksy, here is the actual CC post from DEB. The fact that DEB is giving the benefit of the doubt here is very +town equity for their slot. Scum!DEB benefits very little from such a move (as he's a goner regardless.)

I do have to disagree with this, though. If you assume that Bell is scum and look at DEB giving the benefit of the doubt, it increases the odds that DEB is scum with the whole thing being scum theater where both claims come from scum. I'd therefore say that DEB giving the benefit of the doubt is, overall, null, where you can see the action as town or scum in equal amounts.

It's probably town-equity if Bell is town since town willing to consider the original claim as town is more likely than scum counterclaiming a doomed slot only to then give benefit of the doubt, but if Bell is scum I give no such town equity to DEB.

In post 4014, Ircher wrote:

In post 3655, mastina wrote:So my thought on this is that it's probably a classic FL scum-scum claim where both players claiming the role are scum and neither is town.

I think the one hole is that the other has to explain why they are still alive. That doesn't sound like an easy task to me.

I don't see why not.

If only one scum makes the nightkill the entire game, there's only one guilty and a bunch of innocents/false innocents.

A detective not getting a guilty poses no threat to the scum.

And if both detective claims are scum, then they have no reason to claim a guilty, so they can claim innocent results the entire game.

Plus, a detective's innocent isn't a game-long clear, so stacking innocents does no good. If the detective got innocents on eight players before the detective died, those eight innocents don't become conftown. No detective innocent is actually an innocent, not unless all four scum have made a kill (something that we, the town, have no way of knowing).

In post 4004, Dunnstral wrote:And you were keeping your reads close earlier as if you had something special, then came out with the most generic copy pasted reads possible

A reasonably good point.

In post 4021, Double the Trouble wrote:Can u post a reads list Bell?

In post 4022, Bell wrote:What do you think I'm doing rn?

In post 4024, Bell wrote:Actions speak louder than words.

Yes, actions speak louder than words.
You're saying you're making a readslist; you're not showing a readslist.

In post 4025, Bell wrote:I'm going to bed now.

Going to bed sure doesn't seem like making a readslist to me!

In post 4031, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:like I don't think bell would even care that much about living if he was a red role pm.

I do.

This is a game where, if Bell is scum, he was hand-picked by Flavor Leaf.

That, inherently, means that Bell would have not one but two reasons to not give up.
1: Unless Bell raged at the FL and said "RECRUITING ME WAS A MISTAKE!!!", unless Bell did that specific thing upon drawing scum, Bell has no reason to give up. To the contrary, being picked by FL would be an honor to him and it'd give him incentive to live up to what FL sees in him--meaning that instead of rolling over to die, he'd have some fight.

2: FL is remarkably adept at AtE. It's one of his greatest skills. He is, very easily, capable of coaching Bell into this sort of a reaction, and can even build a plan around it.

In post 4037, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:and I don't think changing jobs can change someone's enthusiasm for playing a certain alignment.

Like Bell haaaates playing scum.

I don't see Bell as enthusiastic here at all.
I believe he does hate scum;
I believe his shown play this game indicates he hates his role this game, which is scum.

Bell's produced AtE.
Bell's AtE is not enthusiastic; Bell's AtE does not display a love for having drawn town. It shows survivalism. Survivalism isn't enthusiasm at being town. Survivalism is something which, from literally any player on FL's team, is to be expected.

Gloria just told me the Bell wagon is dying.
WTF?!
Bell is obvscum with half of his posts. Look at that ISO. It's legitimately so telling. This is utter insanity. If Hectic and I both go insane by the end of this game, its literally because some people aren't looking at the obvious facts laid out on the table.
I feel my brain cells slowly dying one by one. Every game is so damn frustrating lately its not even ok anymore >:(
Maybe today we just need to get rid of the people that are gonna play against town wincon and by that I mean Murder who has singlehandedly started literally almost all of Bell's cws. Are you that desperate to save ur buddy? It's so damn out there that I'm like holy fuck would he actually pull such an insane WK on a buddy?!
AGH

I've had enough of Murder's posts. They are driving me insane.

VOTE: Murder

This day phase is annoying me so bad. I started out bored. Then I found scum with hectic(more like he did the finding and I stole the credit but anyways). Then the scum was at E-1 just one vote away from dead. And now its split into like ten other wagons. GAH -_______-**********

Todays pool is {Murder, Bell} and I dont think anything else is even remotely plausible. These are the two scummiest players and today should end with removing one of them. Tomorrow should be removing the other. Best case scenario we get 2 scum. Worst case we get 1. I highly doubt this pool doesn't have 1 scum regardless of how tiny it is.

-nornor

did someone call the polar bear extermination force?

In post 4415, Double the Trouble wrote:did someone call the polar bear extermination force?

Did anyone bring the trouble exterminating spray?

-nornor

In post 4368, pichu wrote:can we haggle about this pooky
what will it take
what about 5 great balls and 7 rare candies

1 master ball at least.

I look forward to your nuke.

I'm gunna read a book. Until this game goes to night I just can't think about this anymore.

In post 4414, Polar Bear Express wrote:Maybe today we just need to get rid of the people that are gonna play against town wincon and by that I mean Murder who has singlehandedly started literally almost all of Bell's cws. Are you that desperate to save ur buddy? It's so damn out there that I'm like holy fuck would he actually pull such an insane WK on a buddy?!

[what are you even talking about Noraa]

[Murder hasn't done that a single time]

[And even then that doesn't justify voting for Murder before the player you think is confirmed scum]

~Morning

[Understood, Bell]

VOTE: Bell

~Morning

If Bell isn't happening, I want murder.
Bell is now at like 3 votes or something right? Or did gloria exaggerate it?

-nornor

[Idk, but if I were to take a guess, Murder's at 1 vote]

[so]

~Morning

In post 4418, Solstice wrote:[what are you even talking about Noraa]

[Murder hasn't done that a single time]

[And even then that doesn't justify voting for Murder before the player you think is confirmed scum]

~Morning

Do you see why I SR this now?

MURDERCAT wrote:

In post 4418, Solstice wrote:[what are you even talking about Noraa]

[Murder hasn't done that a single time]

[And even then that doesn't justify voting for Murder before the player you think is confirmed scum]

~Morning

Do you see why I SR this now?

[Noraa can live in alternate universes as town too. Especially when we're talking OMGUS.]

[But yes, I understand -- her responses to you have been pretty consistent with this]

[Bell has more votes than i thought hold on]

UNVOTE:

~Morning

In post 4421, Solstice wrote:[Idk, but if I were to take a guess, Murder's at 1 vote]

[so]

~Morning

The problem is that Bell's been at E-1 and hasn't been hammered for days. Now that its even lower count than before, I have zero hope it goes thru today. If it reaches E-1 tho, I hammer quick as hell.

-nornor