Mafiascum.net

Hey Cerby
you townread me right?

because let me say this.
I'll say it in red because red truth does not lie.

Are we done here?
Cerby are you going to continue to suggest that Bee is a wolf even though I am probably the best player on the playerlist to read them?
Please say yes, it makes my life easier :3

In post 4477, Purple Heart wrote:Are we done here?
Cerby are you going to continue to suggest that Bee is a wolf even though I am probably the best player on the playerlist to read them?
Please say yes, it makes my life easier :3

We are not done here, and I'm not going to stop suggesting they're scum. Bee is exploiting their own meta here, as evidenced by them stating that they only fake innocents, not guilties. They're self aware enough to make that statement to someone like me, who they could expect to follow up on it(though I didn't cuz lazy+my other head is the one who I'd get to do something like that normally), and knew we wouldn't find anything contradicting it. That tells me that the fact of faking the guilty is certainly NOT something which should ever be used as evidence in favor of them being town. Your other two points are, basically, worthless to me, partially because of that meta awareness displayed by beeboy, and the fact that they likely know what you expect from town them.

And that's all assuming I have you as definitely town, which, for the record, I don't actually have ANYONE as.
-Cerb

We can talk about this tomorrow.
I'll defend myself.

~B

In post 4478, Reasonably Rational wrote:Bee is exploiting their own meta here

Probably the best point you brought up so far but you're using it in the wrong context.
I don't care about the fact that he faked whatever investigation result
I don't care about that.
I don't even see wolf!Bee doing it, he doesn't NEED that attention. If he is pushing all town, he just lets village implode.

I do say its a good point because while Bee is capable of that, there is a time and place where he is willing to do that, and I promise you, this is not a time and place he is willing to do that because if Bee was a wolf, instead of manipulating his meta, he would be focusing on succeeding in school.

Like, I know Bee as a person.
If they were a wolf, you would be seeing way more Claire and way less Bee.

--

In post 4478, Reasonably Rational wrote:Your other two points are, basically, worthless to me, partially because of that meta awareness displayed by beeboy, and the fact that they likely know what you expect from town them.

Why?
Like, Wolf!Bee doesn't need to do anything.
He doesn't need to push an agenda, because town will be mislynching themselves if he is suggesting a scumpool of all town.
And he can probably do that for the rest of the game.
He has no reason to play the way he has, which has been a focused on trying to get town to work together to do what he needs them to do. He doesn't need to do that as a wolf, he just lets town spiral out of control.

--

In post 4478, Reasonably Rational wrote:And that's all assuming I have you as definitely town, which, for the record, I don't actually have ANYONE as.

Okay then there isn't really much we can get out of this conversation now can we.

That's not true. I can cooperate and work with even people I suspect, because I live in a state of perpetual suspicion.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate you doing a little exercise for me.

Pretend A50 gets lynched with the game state the way it was when MC faked the guilty. Assume they flip town. How do things look for the MC slot? Assume they flip scum. Again, how do things look for the MC slot?

Now, pretend they get lynched and flip town/scum, and MC did not tell Chara that they faked the guilty prior to the flip.

Now, finally, pretend that they get lynched in the current game state, flip town or scum, and so on.

Got it?

Now, list those 6 scenarios in order of "least likely to get MC eventually lynched" to "most likely to get MC eventually lynched"

Then post that here, with some reasoning for the results/orders.

I'm very interested in seeing your perspective on those game states, and where MC falls into them.
-Cerb

The first scenario, to be clear, is BEFORE the fake guilty happened. So comparing game stare if A50 flips efore fake guilty, after fake guilty but before claiming it, and after claiming it, as either alignment.

-Cerb

In post 4481, Reasonably Rational wrote:That's not true. I can cooperate and work with even people I suspect, because I live in a state of perpetual suspicion.

I feel like you're missing my point here. Mafia is a team game, right? I'm not saying that because you suspect me that I cannot work with you. I'm saying that if you townread me, you should trust my abilities to read those two players.

Anyhow Cerby, I'm trying to play along, but here is the difference.
You care about the fake guilty.
I don't.
We both knew it was fake in the first place since we have the gamesense to come to that conclusion, yeah?

So it comes down to this,
why should I care about the fake guilty?

I also have to leave extremely soon.
I feel like it'll be better if Taly plays along with your excercise considering that and he isn't really that familiar with how Claire/Bee play.

I actually don't think I can remember a time where I just trusted someone else's judgment in a game, at least, privately. I've certainly expressed the sentiment of sheeping reads etc, but never actually agreed without coming to my own independent conclusion.

-Cerb

Meh
I need to leave
Taly will do the excise

In post 4486, Purple Heart wrote:Meh
I need to leave
Taly will do the excise

Understood. Have fun doing your thing!

Also, Aladdin was INCREDIBLE. :p

-Cerb

In post 4485, Reasonably Rational wrote:I actually don't think I can remember a time where I just trusted someone else's judgment in a game, at least, privately. I've certainly expressed the sentiment of sheeping reads etc, but never actually agreed without coming to my own independent conclusion.

-Cerb

This is why I like you...and why we butt heads.

#heartemojis

~Titus

In post 4473, Reasonably Rational wrote:Even though it seems most of you don't care about figuring out the riddle icon has, I'm going to remind you all that Sky bird has a PT with Icon, Chara has a PT with everyone else, so even in the night we can make suggestions that Chara can pass on to skybird to pass on to icon. So let's not just stop trying bease the day ends without resolution.

@PH:I still see numerous scenarios where MC is scum, and I never STOPPED seeing those scenarios. So, lynching them was always going to come up for me at least if their list didn't lead us to at least 2 scum lunches immediately.

-Cerb

So, by this, you're thinking that regardless of the flip, at best from a scumlip, has been bussing their scumreads?

What are your thoughts if flips town, and what are your thoughts on flipping scum?

In post 4481, Reasonably Rational wrote:That's not true. I can cooperate and work with even people I suspect, because I live in a state of perpetual suspicion.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd appreciate you doing a little exercise for me.

Pretend A50 gets lynched with the game state the way it was when MC faked the guilty. Assume they flip town. How do things look for the MC slot? Assume they flip scum. Again, how do things look for the MC slot?

this will nearly confirm as scum who lied to conceal a mislynch, and much less likely, a towny who targeted another towny off... not the strong basis they claimed. That doesn't discount the possible accuracy of read, but that doesn't explain how he came to that. puzzle would probably not be completed if a lynch happened at this time or in this manner.

this will nearly confirm as town within the eyes of townies, but that doesn't discount the reality of his fake-guilty actually being BECAUSE knows alignment, and bussed. But town wouldn't know this though. puzzle would probably not be completed if a lynch happened at this time or in this manner.

In either case, a flip does not quite absolve either way.

In post 4481, Reasonably Rational wrote:Now, pretend they get lynched and flip town/scum, and MC did not tell Chara that they faked the guilty prior to the flip.

a similar situation like above would arise. But also, not knowing this, would become a question mark to the gamestate, assuming that he would likely have a PT with in this reality. That could hinder means of game solving since he didn't know of this relevant piece of information. That would make communication difficult and easy to misconstrue.

a similar situation like above would arise. But in this scenario where doesn't know this, that could easily help build a case in where is town. Because assuming a PT with would happen here, that could help create distance from and his supposed guilty.

However, neither option doesn't help clear either way in reality because it was a faked guilty, but town would not know this.

In post 4481, Reasonably Rational wrote:Now, finally, pretend that they get lynched in the current game state, flip town or scum, and so on.

would very easily point to doing this to push for a mislynch because of how much he's still pushing this despite the guilty. This rings as anti-town, and that also generates questions behind his motives, which may or may not be town-motivated, despite the poor play.
this would make somewhat cleared? This would confirm he was correct, but that doesn't mean he's town.

In post 4481, Reasonably Rational wrote:Got it?

Now, list those 6 scenarios in order of "least likely to get MC eventually lynched" to "most likely to get MC eventually lynched"

Then post that here, with some reasoning for the results/orders.

I'm very interested in seeing your perspective on those game states, and where MC falls into them.
-Cerb

This, rather blatantly shows that not only did lie about the guilty, continued to pursue, but on top of that, lynched town.
With the fake-guilty known, that still creates uncertainty about how came to that conclusion independent of the claim.

very similar situation here as to 4, but becomes a wafflehouse to the playerlist, because nobody has accurate information or has talked to him to accurately deduce his reasons for the fake-guilty.
this puts pressure on indefinitely, but this also puts ANYONE that jumped onto his push toward in the spotlight as well.

very similar situation here as to 6, but this just more likely creates a barrier of communication.
with little discussion, will be deemed as a Town-esque PR, and nobody would be able to discredit him unless people push him on the pretenses that he bussed... but with almost no present strong reasoning.




I don't think I'm the best person to implement objective reasoning that much, but I can definitely understand the conflicting argument with and I have been more uncertain of my read there since the fake-guilty became known.

That doesn't change my read on , however, I've talked to about this, and e's extremely adamant that is town.

even told me e wouldn't ALLOW me to vote , which makes me a bit less confident in my current reads. I'm working to be in sync with my partner, but there's not enough information to sway me either way at the moment in how to take the fake-guilty.

Ugh.

2 minutes from deadline, hopefully I didn't misunderstand a question.

You have to try to be happy, okay!?
For our sakes!
We'll feel better knowing our trouble was worth it.

Maid Cafe, Dunnstral, Bronya Zaychik, Creature, Heart, Purple, Almost50

Venmar


Chara, baku and munna, Nancy Drew 39, Skybird, Iconeum, Reasonably Rational, Gamma Emerald

: (expired on 2018-04-08 19:20:00)