Hydra Mafia (Day 4, I can't think of a clever title!)

[bv310]

Okay, getting two head replacements atm. I've got one lined up, but the other is gonna take some finagling. On the plus side, no modkills! Yay!

[MasterSpy]

Not sure if I am flying solo again.

*shuffles back into the thread sheepishly with head down*

To be honest, I've been using the lack of activity in this game as an excuse to procrastinate horribly. And also, I'm not really sure what I should be doing with myself right now. If I were on my own, I'd have written a huge catch-up post with my general impressions of every player in the game upon replacing in. But it's harder my other head already has an active presence in the thread and has committed to strong opinions. (It would utterly neutralize the pressure on someone to say, "Ha ha, ignore my partner's attack on you two posts ago, because I actually think you're totally town!" Instead I've been ISO'ing people and keeping (started making detailed notes on a couple of players in the QT, but haven't got around to everyone, yet). Today I'll try to poke at a few people, but I'm not sure if I should be making actual cases/defences.

But first, I'd just like to point out something that stood out to me on an ISO of Professor Paradox...

Ellibereth. Pacman. Can you just confirm that pacman is the one who doesn't like meta, and Elli is the one who likes meta and fakeclaimed Lateralus?

Because I've looked through your ISO, and there's something that doesn't make sense. I

assume

both of these posts are pacman (although the first sounds a bit like Elli):

WE'RE NOT REVEALING OUR IDENTITIES UNLESS OTHER HEAD THINKS OTHERWISE.

This head is a schizo at talking about meta. One head seems to love meta (I think...), while the other one (this one) doesn't like to use it as argument, as it might be used as excuse to pass off poor play as meta. That is annoying, and useless.

Next post:

Hi guys! Lateralus checking in.

3. Do you think meta will help in this game?

3. Yes.

1. pacman here (other head already reported).
<snip>
3. I dislike meta. It can be easily used to pass off easy scum play as town play. So, no.

So apparently, pacman hates meta. Meanwhile, Elli likes meta, and thinks it's helpful...and yet he's still faking his nameclaim.

Pacman's reaction to Lateralus's counterclaim:

pacman here.
<snip>
What can I say... my other idiotic head decided it would be fun to fakeclaim its head.
I just decided to follow through. I warned him, but...

Pacman, the head that hates meta and thinks it won't be of help this game, has. I

think

he was the person to post that he should. Yet he goes back on this for some reason.

But then

Ellibereth

, who said up above that META WOULD BE HELPFUL this game, refuses to claim:

Oh yeah, I know the whole nameclaim thing is strategically good blahblahblah but I don't feel like doing it. Most of the people here prob already know who I am anyway...

But then randomly claims anyway

solely

to deflect someone's suspicions of him:

The last line of one of you're earlier posts where you said you had no reads or something, I'll go find it.
What's wrong with calling 3 people town?
Have you ever played with me (Ellibereth) before?

Never mind that he then changes his story.

Conclusion:

1) Why is the head that says meta will be helpful the one that refuses to claim his head, and the head that dislikes meta and refused to claim the one who comes forward with his identity early on?

2) Why did the head who liked meta fakeclaim his name?

3) WTF? Seriously, even if you're scum, WTF? How can you manage to have that much cognitive dissonance? Is your QT three posts long? Are you just posting random diarrhea in the thread?

I dunno, maybe it's just that Elli and pacman have very similar posting styles (flippant short posts, overuse of capslock and anime smileys), but I keep getting paranoid that they're switching identities.

~The White Spy

[Chimaira]

OK, most of you appear to have sent a PM to bv310 that you're still in the game. If you're town, now it's time to show that you're still in the game. By not posting we're all giving scum a chance to lurk their way to victory completely masked by inactive townies. We've got a deadline coming up and by my count we've got four players who aren't voting (of which two have never voted.) Let's start with them.

@Bowser, if you think that Mr Smith is scum going with an angry townie routine at this point you should be voting for them. If you've changed your mind and think that Pineapple is still a great lynch then I certainly hope that you still think they're scum (at this point information from a flip shouldn't be our main goal for the game.) If you think that someone else is worth voting (and it would be nice to think that you'd actually read the game and had opinions though I've got what feel like justified doubts) then someone else should be getting that vote. In any case, your unvote isn't doing us any good at all; we need scum hunting, pressure, and firmer stances. Voting is how you can help with those.

@Pineapple, I'm not sure which of you just replaced into the game but we've gone well beyond whatever limits commenting shortly might entail. With the unvote for Faranor I guess we're supposed to think that your top suspects were IceCream and MasterSpy. It'd be much better if I weren't trying to guess that but, instead, actually knew what you were thinking suspect-wise because you had a vote down. Let's change that, shall we?

@Professor Paradox, what you're doing now is active lurking. What's worse is you're active lurking with two players. The nothing we've got from you today is completely unacceptable. As far as I can tell all that you've done today is Bowser is feeling more town. Justify your presense in the game. Cast a vote. Hell, you're a hydra with Ellibereth, tell us who's town and who's scum.

@TomAndJerry, you had some opinions earlier in the game but then you disappeared. If you were deciding between Bowser and Pineapple that decisions should have been made by now so back it up with a vote. If you suspect Mr Smith or IceCream then do something that's going to help you figure out whether or not they're scum. If you suspect someone else now then get in here and let us know who it is. Really though, it's inexcusable that you've not cast a vote yet when we're three days away from deadline.

For what it's worth, those four might as well be my top four suspects at this point (though it's not like there isn't some stiff competition for a number of other spots; there's so much more to dislike than to like in this game.) They'd be there somewhat naturally anyhow and the not voting (even in a game with low participation) pushes them to the top. Mind you, it's not just those who aren't voting now who should be doing something. We need to start figuring out what sort of shifting needs to be done to get a lynch in before deadline; we're not short on reasonable choices but we lack discussion and the effort to get a cohesive process going.

@IceCream and Mr Smith, I'm not seeing the Crab Canon case. There is perhaps less posting from VP Baltar than ideal but that's true of the entire game. They're actively pursuing cases and I just don't see this ignoring the issue that you think they're doing. If you want the wagon to get serious consideration perhaps a bit more on why the rest of us should consider it would be good to present?

@MasterSpy, it looks like you're struggling with how to present different opinions. Offhand I'd seriously recommend just picking one player to be the decision maker and have the other play support. In Chimaira I'm the support role; I'm sharing all my thoughts with Sotty7 in our QT so that she's got access to a point of view she knows she can trust to be town but she makes the calls. If I were ever to disagree with a direction she was heading I'd let her know but I trust her judgment enough to let her run with it. In the game thread I'm here to make some observations and ask the questions I think will help me get reads. We suspect that your first head is MagnaofIllusion (who I don't have any experience with but who Sotty7 seems to think is pretty sharp) and we know your second head is Mina who I've worked with in a QT in the past and have seen push good cases (as well as some more like Fate, but that's fine.) I believe that either of you should be capable of making decent decisions so mostly it would be a matter of figuring out who's willing to trust the other's judgment. Personally I'd be willing to play support head to either of you.

I like your Professor Paradox push now given the complete lack of contribution for that spot today. I do wonder how likely you think you are to get the support to make it a viable wagon to consider though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[TomAndJerry]

Hey, Hydra Mafia!

I'm reading the thread.

[TomAndJerry]

I've been up to page 3 and realized that this is quite complicated. I'm going to bed instead. No hurry for a catch-up post, yes?
And that last post above^^ was me.

-Charlie

[Chimaira]

@TomAndJerry, actually we're down to about three days till deadline. Your hydra has yet to cast a vote today. There is some urgency in getting your opinions on the game out here and getting a vote in. Also, apparently welcome to the game, Charlie.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[TomAndJerry]

Should be able to catch up either today or tomorrow. I hope to discuss with my new partner and help him get caught up with the game.

Mod: Could we have a 1 day extension for the replacements to get caught up?

~Tom

[Pineapple]

@Pineapple, I'm not sure which of you just replaced into the game but we've gone well beyond whatever limits commenting shortly might entail. With the unvote for Faranor I guess we're supposed to think that your top suspects were IceCream and MasterSpy. It'd be much better if I weren't trying to guess that but, instead, actually knew what you were thinking suspect-wise because you had a vote down. Let's change that, shall we?

actually my biggest suspect is Faranor. i unvoted to give my partners replacement a chance to catch up and share his thoughts in the QT before we actually put a vote down, except he has replaced out...and his replacement is replacing out(to the best of my knowledge).

VOTE: Faranor

also i'll echo Zorblag's thoughts about a catch up post being needed kinda now TnJ.

[MasterSpy]

Fuck, three days to deadline? This weekend is a really bad time for me, because I'm working all day and have plans in the evenings. I have part of a big post saved at home that I fell in the middle of writing last night, but right now I'm stuck with a phone that's almost dead. I thought there was much more time left.

Bv310, I would also be in favour of a deadline extension. Preferably a week-long extension, but at least two or three days would be nice too, what with all the replacements and inactivity, getting a lynch. I think the game would benefit from giving all the new players time to get engaged.

Zorblag,

are you making fun of my stellar Fate = the cult leader case

, I'll be honest. Part of it is really that I've horribly neglected all my Mafia games lately, so I'm working off gut impressions, and not asking enough hard-hitting questions. But in general, I tend to be much more charitable than my other head. If you want an example of an area in which we don't agree...I'm of the opinion that Nikanor's post discussing his unproductive discussions with Faraday in the QT is a strong towntell that cancels out the slot's lurking, inability to explain the simplest opinions, and utter uselessness. Black Spy is of the opinion that I'm out if my freaking mind. I'm a bit of a special snowflake.

...Uh-oh. I was going to ask Zorblag questions about his most recent post, but my phone is at 2%. Maybe when I get home tonight.

~WS

[bv310]

I'm thinking of going 24 hours after I get the last replacement, or 5 days, whichever comes first. Incidentally, I'm currently looking for 2 more replacements. If you guys know anybody who might want to play, PM me.

[Professor Paradox]

Professor Paradox here, checking in with a new hydra head: It is I, MacavityLock! (So, you'll probably be able to figure out what posts come from RAGECAPS ELLI and which come from me.)

I dunno, maybe it's just that Elli and pacman have very similar posting styles (flippant short posts, overuse of capslock and anime smileys), but I keep getting paranoid that they're switching identities.

~The White Spy

Well, no need to worry about this anymore. (Also, I'm pretty sure this is a Hello, Nemesis!)

Anyway, after a first pass, Pineapple IceCream is a tasty scum combination. I'd prefer IceCream right now, but would happily vote Pineapple at deadline to secure a lynch.

Unvote. Vote: IceCream.

[Bowser]

In any case, your unvote isn't doing us any good at all; we need scum hunting, pressure, and firmer stances. Voting is how you can help with those.

Good point.

vote Pineapple

. I don't think Ice Cream is the correct lynch today. I think it should either be Pineapple or Mr Smith. They are my current scum reads. I find MS and Chimaira to be town. Everyone else is fairly null to me, but I think that my reads will change drastically based the [probable] Pineapple flip. I don't think that lynching anyone except for my two scum reads is in any way the correct play today, and since it seems that Pineapple will swing, I would rather not make people read my weakass, imminently changing cases on other players.

Pineapple IceCream is a tasty scum combination

DO WANT.

[Bowser]

though I am tempted to just edit my post, I won't.

EBWOP: I find MasterSpy and Chimaira to be town.

[Faranor]

@Pineapple, I'm not sure which of you just replaced into the game but we've gone well beyond whatever limits commenting shortly might entail. With the unvote for Faranor I guess we're supposed to think that your top suspects were IceCream and MasterSpy. It'd be much better if I weren't trying to guess that but, instead, actually knew what you were thinking suspect-wise because you had a vote down. Let's change that, shall we?

actually my biggest suspect is Faranor. i unvoted to give my partners replacement a chance to catch up and share his thoughts in the QT before we actually put a vote down, except he has replaced out...and his replacement is replacing out(to the best of my knowledge).

VOTE: Faranor

You voted originally to prove a point and unvoted because it had been proved i'm p sure though and now top suspect? since when.

i've been really busy, sorry for pretty much doing nothing, I've got reports and shit and it's eating at my life. Will try and get something of substance up later!

[Mr Smith]

unvote, vote: Bowser

WHY DOES NOBODY WANT TO LYNCH THIS GUY?

[TomAndJerry]

Charlie posting. So I would usually provided a page by page analysis when I replace in, and that usually takes a lot of time. This time, I'd like to try something a little bit different. I'll read quickly the early part of the game, but read all of the current part of the game.

I like the questions posed by my partner early on, and the responses that it got. I think its fair for me to answer those questions as well:

1. Your hydra name/pair (If you so wish)
2. Lynch all Liars/Lynch all Lurkers?
3. Do you think meta will help in this game?
4. If you had to lynch one person right now who would it be, why?
5. Timezone/how active each of you expect to be.
6. Your favorite role?

1. Lateralus22 + Charlie (I replaced in page 19)
2. Both
3. In those players whom I've played with before, yes
4. -Invalid question- (Not in Random Voting Stage anymore)
5. +8GMT, will try to post as when required
6. Seeming to like VT much these days, mainly due to past screwing up as other roles

So I'm liking Crab Canon at page 4, he seems to know what's going on and is hilarious. Arguments with Mr. Smith seems a bit dry.
Bowser seems to be getting a lot of heat for... I dunno what actually. Not really liking Mr. Smith's method of questioning, it seems forced. Oh Parama... I remember him. No wonder I have that funny feeling in my bones when I read his posts.

I'm liking Crab Canon more and more. Town read at page 5. Jump ahead, getting lurker vibes from MasterSpy. Not impressed with Bowser replies/defence. I see Tiger Woods, tiger shark, a plant that's probably tiger something and a fuzzy Furry. FourTigers has good content. Sad that he's NKed before I got here, I'd like to play mafia with him.

Chimaira is late but I like the his opening post. Vote sucks though. Professor Paradox isn't impressive anyone.

Half time early game analysis:

MasterSpy --> lurked
Professor Paradox --> just no
Bowser --> just no
Faranor --> ?
Mr. Smith --> ?
IceCream --> ?
Pineapple --> ?
Chimaira --> yes
Crab Canon --> definitely yes

(This is like a Win/Fail system, I hope this isn't confusing)

Some truth in page 8 by Faranor, I like that... Not liking Mr. Smith's content much. MasterSpy's catch up looking good (problem is, coming from lurker bad, any content looks good argh) Content from Chimera is disgraceful here (initially liked, now dislike)

Lol in page 9! <not explaining why its funny; that'd be insulting> Crab Canon should be sheeped at this point. First case of schizo felt with a "in your face" manner when reading MasterSpy. Conclusion: Null. Pineapple vote seems good.

I'd like to read Page 10 onwards in detail. I'd like to keep things neat by signing the end of my post using Jerry's name. Post separation!

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

Hello there Mr. Smith! I can't bear to lynch anyone who posts pineapple ice cream. Or maybe its because I'm no up to date yet.

-Jerry

[TomAndJerry]

@Mod: Your last votecount lists only 8 out of 10 people, I was confused!

And I'm very sleepy! Goodnight, I'll resume the detailed read and shall be done before the deadline (hopefully!)

-Jerry

[Chimaira]

The Crab case feels pretty weak really. I have also found it hard to post in this game sometimes so I can't hold VP's lower activity against him. Also I know OJ is having a busy time right now because I am in currently hydra'ing with her in another game and she is barely around. So yeah, I'm gonna need more than lurking + gut to reconsider my read of that hydra.

Good to see a little activity coming with replacements. PP needs to explain the vote on Icecream, that hydra is lacking serious content.

I also want to know why Pineapple is voting for Farnor. The lack of effort I am seeing from this slot to actually get scum reads out is getting insane. Scum reads+reasons asap please! Your other head replaced in a while ago now, this slacking isn't acceptable. It's like you are trying to ride out the deadline.

~Sotty

[Crab Canon]

In other news, Pineapple is still a great lynch for today.

If nothing else, the flip will tell us something about the people who are opposing the wagon.

So what exactly happened between your prior post where you wanted to give the pineapple replacement breathing room and this post where you're back on wanting to lynch them?

Prof Paradox’s continued lack of anything remotely resembling content should be plenty of reason to vote him. Get with it Hydras.

For the record, I don't really care for his lack of contribution either and I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt this game, but I'm about sick of that and would lynch him today if there is support before deadline.

I dunno, maybe it's just that Elli and pacman have very similar posting styles (flippant short posts, overuse of capslock and anime smileys), but I keep getting paranoid that they're switching identities.

See, I don't feel like pacman posts like that though. I've played one game with him in my other hydra (Merkabah) and I didn't feel like he played so flippantly. It's not enough to meta anyone really, but I would have expected at least some kind of contribution by now.

Anyway, after a first pass, Pineapple IceCream is a tasty scum combination. I'd prefer IceCream right now, but would happily vote Pineapple at deadline to secure a lynch.

I'd enjoy an explanation.

Ok, this game is at a standstill and we're very close to deadline, so I'm once again going to state my perspective on things and maybe that will help myself and others get involved:

1) Pineapple continues to make very little sense in explaining their hammer or general suspicions today. This is what keeps feeding the part of me that wants them lynched today. I find the general verbal support of it from many players disconcerting in terms of 'oh that could just be a lazy townie'...but looking at the vote counts I see that this continued verbal support hasn't really translated to consistent vote pressure. On the other hand, there are very few vote counts, so meh. I think pineapple's name has come up a lot, but only Faranor, Chimaira and myself have been consistently pro-pineapple lynch. Those three names make me want to lynch because I find the other two to be townish. We'll see.

2) Contrary to my feelings about Pineapple, Prof. Paradox is pissing me off to no end and I will lynch them today on nothing more than their utter lack of contribution. They are the lurkiest of the lurkers and I have no idea what any of their stances are in this game. If there is support, you can count me in for that wagon.

3) Bowser's support of the Pineapple wagon is bothersome if only for their on again, off again attitude about it. Their posting in this game seems really fake to me on a gut level and Untrod's indignant attitude about his 'iso Pineapple only' post seems fake too.

4) Smith is no longer a town read of mine. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt as well because Oj found their arguing with me early on to be a bit more town, but I do find it strange that they are trying to turn back to the tough guy attitude again after being outted and admitting that it was an act early on. I don't mind that they don't like the Pineapple wagon, but they seem to be without direction for a good alternative. mykonian is perfectly capable of making a decent case and I'm not seeing much trying to convince other players to move their votes.

@Smith - I'd like you to explain how and when Bowser jumped to the top of your scumlist. Prior to that, you had been pushing Faranor/PP regularly and not really caring much about Bowser it seems to me. Then we get your iso #73, which I find a little ridiculous upon review. Why did you say:

@Bowser:

unvote, vote: Bowser

. Why I ever changed this vote is beyond me.

When you had not voted Bowser since a completely unexplained vote on Day 1? I find your statement suggesting he is such a strong scum read for you to be odd to say the least given the rest of your posting. Additionally, why do you ask Pineapple to claim in that same post when you are implying that you do not support his wagon? I feel like this was asked already, but I could just be remembering something I thought when I read that post. If you did answer already, please direct me to the post or quote it.

Despite the laziness in this game, I think we still have a good chance to win this because I do have some pretty decent town reads I feel. If I had to propose a town alliance right now, I would place it as: Chimaira, Faranor, MasterSpy, TomandJerry, Crab Cannon. That leaves:

Pineapple, IceCream, Mr. Smith, Prof. Paradox

as potential scum. I strongly support lynching out of this pool of players today without a great deal of preference for which one goes. If I was giving benefit of the doubt to one player, it might be Mr. Smith, but I'd like to see how he responds to my questions above. Out of the town reads I have, Faranor is probably the weakest and most gut based. I'm still wary of Troll, I must admit, but that's only based upon my history of playing against him and he's never town. I hate arguments like that because they are dumb, but it's been like 4 or 5 games in a row now I think. He's bound to be town sooner or later I suppose

[MacavityLock]

Prof Paradox’s continued lack of anything remotely resembling content should be plenty of reason to vote him. Get with it Hydras.

For the record, I don't really care for his lack of contribution either and I've been trying to give him the benefit of the doubt this game, but I'm about sick of that and would lynch him today if there is support before deadline.

New hydra head promises more, real contribution.

Good to see a little activity coming with replacements. PP needs to explain the vote on Icecream, that hydra is lacking serious content.

Sure thing.

It pretty much comes from what looks to be very easy cases and a bunch of misreps. The Bowser case and vote in isos 1 and 2 are pretty sheep-y. And then there's the pulling back a bit when threatened.

unvote, vote: IceCream

HoS: Bowser

Yes, I think he's bussing. His attack is weak and easy to back out of. Bowser's counter-attack is just the same.

Cream has barely made a case on Bowser. He only gave his general feelings towards the thread as a whole so far. The change of vote to us makes no sense if you think Bowser + IceCream scumteam.

Vote: TomandJerry

For posting questions and not actually answering themselves. The rest of the thread is a blur and I will probably try and read it again later.

My scumdar is pinging. Why is him asking the questions scummy?

~Cream

It's about asking others and not answering oneself. It's either a misread or a misrep, and it's looks pretty hard to read incorrectly.

Iso 12 includes some misreps of FourTigers.

I don't like the timing or reasoning of the bv vote in iso 24. It feels like an excuse to secure a mislynch.

----

As for Pineapple, the thing that jumped out at me by far the most was the "Please don't blame me" hammer.

Among other things:

I prefer Lynch all Policy Lynchers.

So why don't you vote yourself? Or realize the contradiction and retreat the statement?

Means nothing, scumhunting fakery.

fourth, @ FourTigers: you expressed a desire to lynch bv311 earlier, and have again mentioned that you will vote him closer to deadline. so what is preventing you from voting him/joining the bandwagon now?

Push/taunt to secure mislynch?

And I don't see a Faranor case from you.

----

Any questions I can respond to as I continue to catch up?

[Professor Paradox]

The above

Oh good, now I'm doing it.

[TomAndJerry]

#398 (Chimaira): Alright, I just figured you did it for tactical reasons instead of just being sociable, guess I was wrong.

#403 (Mr Smith): You know, you're not exactly a very clear writer. You're ignoring the bolded parts of I pointed out. The bolded in #1 is the exact opposite of what you're saying and #2 is also the exact opposite. Those don't fit with #3.

#409 (Professor Paradox):Yo… we've kinda been waiting the whole game for something, Elli. Did you get your reread done?

#414 (Bowser): Grasping at straws, I would hardly call the explanation scummy.

#416 (Pineapple):

lastly, i apologize for the lack of scumhunting in this post. when my new head catches up and we go over our thoughts some we'll get some in.

Not satisfied at all with Pineapple's explanation for not scum hunting, It's just an excuse.

#423 (IceCream): Lol OMGUS. The explanations he gives later are pretty awful.

#432 (Bowser): I'm actually glad that he went ahead and did a read of Pineapple as he was the most important player at that moment. I don't like though that he hasn't really given any comprehensive reads on anyone else. The whole asking someone to claim at L-1 just because they're at L-1 is just bad. It's awful to ask such requests just for the sake of asking them.

#447 (Crab Cannon): IceCream NEEDS to respond to this before the phase ends.

#451 (Master Spy): Not seeing a case against Prof except that he hasn't done much. The whole liking meta point doesn't seem scummy to me.

#469 (Crab Cannon): The principle of a town alliance seems a bit off to me, the purpose of this is town unity correct? Also why was Bowser not included in either side?

This phase feels weird, kinda stalled out yet decided at the same time. Could I have each slot's top two scum suspects? (Updated picks when my partner catches up)

1. Pineapple
2. IceCream

[TomAndJerry]

~Tom,

goddamnit

[Crab Canon]

The principle of a town alliance seems a bit off to me, the purpose of this is town unity correct? Also why was Bowser not included in either side?

Simple oversight. He was meant to go in the Lynch soon pile.