Page 19 of 61

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:00 am
by Zachrulez
1st Vote Count of D1 P2


Percy - 5 (Benmage, RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981)
RedCoyote - 2 (KaleiÐoscøpe, Furcolow)
Baby Spice - 1 (Nikanor)
Benmage - 1 (Baby Spice)

Not Voting: (Havingfitz, Sotty7, Elmo, Percy, Mina, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 1 is Thursday November 12 at 12pm CST

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:14 am
by jasonT1981
heh heh heh
Baby Spice wrote: Town
Percy.
Baby Spice wrote:Benmage and Jason are the lynch. Not Percy, not obv town. Just those two scum
.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:20 am
by jasonT1981
upon firther looking BS, despite declaring Percy town.. OBV town and not the lynch.

Has only one tiny tiny interaction or mention of him apart from the declarations.
Baby Spice wrote:
Percy #16 wrote:ITT: Scum explain how happy they are that they're not scum.
?? More like scum complain about how they wish they were scum.

this is it, this is the only interaction or mention of percy apart from her declarations... Baby Spice... you have sum explaining to do... How is Percy OBV town. you keep saying it but have done NOTHING to back it up.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:23 am
by jasonT1981
Also, I notice Percy pushes RC so very hard, yet keeps a vote on Fur....then suddeny changes positiion on RC... yet votes for Baby, again like Baby... only one tiny bit of mention and that being the slip I pointed out.

Interesting? I think so!

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:28 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
Unvote Vote: Percy

Red tomorrow k?

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:28 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
[/b]Unvote Vote Percy[/b]

damn bold

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:29 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
unvote vote: percy


ok, that was annoying >.<

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:32 am
by jasonT1981
Id prefer BS over Red.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:42 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
RC is more obv

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 5:22 pm
by Elmo
VOTE: RedCoyote

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:28 pm
by Percy
OK well I'm not scum, so this is very annoying.

jason, you're declaring that I've been contradicting my reads on you, but I did say that your reaction was providing justification, and clarified that. I never thought you were scum, and didn't say you were scum. You have to admit that "my proper role" sounds a bit dodgy, but I have always maintained my read on you.
I asked Furcolow why he wanted Dry-fit lynched, because he appeared scum to me and was jumping on and off the Dry-fit wagon. He said he was voting for Dry-fit because there was a wagon building on him, and I asked for clarification.

I can see where you're getting this Percy-is-scum narrative from, and I did make a very wrong call on Dry-fit. If I'm being honest with myself, I wouldn't have lynched Dry-fit today, so my bad. If I get lynched for it, so be it; having one scum down is fine for D1.

But, I'm not scum, so please reconsider.
I do however think the following players are town:

jasonT1981 - for so many reasons, I've put them in my posts, but being wagonned by Dry-fit and his interactions in general read very town to me.
havingfitz - Oso's replacement, and Oso looks unlikely to be a Dry-fit buddy.
Locke Lamora - similar reasons as havingfitz.
Hannity - He really pushed the Dry-fit wagon. Unless Hannity decided to literally sacrifice his partner for towncred, I find it unlikely that he would be scum.
I Am Innocent - his meltdown still looks town to me.
Elmo - I think Elmo is town, but it's just a surface reading. I can't think of any particularly telling towntells I've seen of his, but I'll put him in the town column for now.

Nikanor and Mina I'm still unsure of.

But as for my scumreads, Baby Spice is still my best read. I think her slip may be legitimate and her posts have been pretty scummy ever since she replaced in.
KScope is bothering me for a few reasons, but I don't know how much it is playstyle.
If I'm being honest, it's the same sort of muddy "is this playstyle" kind of read I have on Furcolow. He should be lynched at some point, though, and I'd like for someone else to pressure him to back up his meta arguments with links to completed games.
Lrdwhyt (kingdavid's replacement) is also worth a look in. kingdavid's reaction to Nik's claim has my ears prick up (spoiler: he buys it), and when Lrdwhyt replaces in he goes after jason quite hard and doesn't commit either way to Dry-fit. I think there may very well be scum here.
RedCoyote... look, I can't make up my mind, and his latest post spun me about. It doesn't look like I'll have a chance to develop my read any further, but he bears watching, as does Sotty7. Sotty7 is one of the absolute best players on this site that I've had the (mis)fortune to play with, so keep an eye on her, folks!

If I had to name the two remaining scum, I'd say they would be Baby Spice and Lrdwhyt, but I'm much more confident with the first name.

And if I do get lynched, premature "thanks zach, go town!"

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:38 pm
by Furcolow
i don't believe percy to be scum. i'm looking at RC and LrdWhyt the same way he is, possibly Elmo or IAI on a lean.

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:54 pm
by Lrdwhyt
Glad Dry-fit was a scum. I've been busy and unable to post the follow-up to my second post. Not so much now that it's the weekend. Here are my thoughts on a few people. Not much, and it only includes the first 10 pages or so because I got sort of tired of taking notes, but oh well.

Sotty's asking why IAI wasn't voting for someone he thought scummy wasn't an unreasonable request. I also agree with her on IAI overreacting to Benmage's (initially) stupid idea.

IAmInnocent mentions statistics a little too much.
I Am Innocent wrote:
Benmage wrote:
Elmo wrote:
I Am Innocent wrote:So my first move was to make sure town understood that every lynch should be used, it is in our best interest. Next was to see if Benmage is a poor playing townie or opportunistic scum. So far
his play falls under the poor playing townie category
.
Okay. Why do you think that?
QFT. I'd like to know this as well considering I already corrected myself over a misinterpretation...so to suggest I'm playing poorly...is simply trying to undermine me.
Probably the way Ben attacked Percy for attacking Sotty for questioning me in Post 53. Ben has that newbie feel of someone trying so hard so early in the game, like he has everything all figured out and won't budge. All in all, I don't suspect scum to draw this much attention so early on.

Ben, I really do think you are townie. If you are, step back and look for a minute and stop being so dang stubborn:

1) Do you know that INCLUDING THE PREGAME CHAT, 7 of the 16 players have 2 posts or less. Do you think there is a chance that the three scum could be laying low, watching this all play out and smiling. One player has yet to POST AT ALL!
2) I have never put out the statistics like that before. I could have blended in and random voted like everybody else.
But I thought it was essential that town use all its lynches
. NOBODY BEFORE I POSTED THAT SAID THAT WE SHOULD USE ALL OUR LYNCHES THROUGHOUT THE GAME. I was clarifying, because nobody else had. I can guarantee you one thing, if I was scum, there ain't no way I am shooting out the statistics cause my hope and prayer would be less lynches and more nk's. Think about it.
Yeah, this is a really scummy argument to deploy.

Elmo seems pretty decent.

RedCoyote's voting Nikanor for not pointing out his own error was a dumb vote. Also slightly suspicious for trying to say jason's was a scumslip, though it wasn't.

Don't have anything on Locke Lamora, strangely.

Mina is kind of scummy.

Not much on Furcolow, either.

Benmage doesn't seem too scummy. Don't really like how quickly he changed from tunneling IAI to voting Percy. Claiming to be reaction testing is kind of strange.

I agree that Oso (havingfitz) was overly dramatic on his RC accusation and didn't take into account that RC could've just misread something. Trying to defend himself from two votes is hardly suspicious, but trying to justify it by saying he had time is a little strange.

KaleiÐoscøpe needs to post more than just one-liners. Seriously. (I know she had like, one full post.)

mongoose's votes are pretty weak, and he did sort of weakly defend Dry-fit. Nothing he said was particularly scummy, though.
Benmage wrote:
Lrdwhyt wrote:I'm considering voting Dry, but I want to see him post some more first...
Thats another one of his strikes...lack of content.
Which is not a scumtell.

I'll try to comment on more recent topics tomorrow (today).

Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:19 pm
by Furcolow
above post seems town, and kingdavid seemed like a VI (takes one to know one)
im so abandoning my read on that slot

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:31 am
by Percy
I do not understand Lrdwhyt's stance on I Am Innocent. Also,
Lrdwhyt 426 wrote:Here are my thoughts on a few people. Not much, and it only includes the first 10 pages or so because I got sort of tired of taking notes, but oh well.
You also said, before:
Lrdwhyt 339 wrote:Alright. I finally finished reading the thread..
This was on page 14.

So I don't understand why the analysis you went with in the last post focused on the first 10 pages, if you already had enough of an understanding of Dry-fit to say "I am considering voting Dry-fit but I want see him post more first". And you said you had finished reading up to page 14...?

Let's just say I'm looking forward to your next post :P



@FURCOLOW
Percy wrote:You're insisting that this play of yours is your town meta. Give me three games where you can demonstrate this, and three games where you're scum and don't demonstrate this tell. If you can't, then I have no reason to believe you.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:33 am
by Sotty7
Considering how haaaaard it was to lynch Dry Fit I am weary of the Percy wagon because of it's speed. Yeah deadline is somewhat near, but I dunno it feels off to me. I have to catch up in another game this morning when that is done I hope to do some reading here. For now however

Vote: Red

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:27 am
by Mina
Sorry to Zachrulez and to the other players for being utterly useless. I just keep falling further and further behind, and many of the major events that have transpired today (such as Furcolow's meltdown and Percy's contradiction in suspects) have flown over my head. But my V/LA just ended, so starting next week, I'll be able to devote much more time to this game.

If people think my lack of contribution is adversely affecting the town, I can replace out, but I don't want to do that to Zach.

It's entirely my own fault for missing out on all the "town points" (to quote Red Coyote :P) I'd have got by voting or attacking Dry-Fit instead of just repeatedly mentioning that I need to reread him. (This is definitely something I deserve to be pressured on. In all honesty, I was so behind on this game and it takes me so long to post at a level I'm comfortable with that I kept putting off a huge catch-up post. I would have been okay with a Dry-Fit lynch because his posts came off as very safe, but suspected RC/Furc/imkingdavid more.) But anyway, town probably has this in the bag now.

================================================================================================
I've reread the game a few times (although TBH, I've wrapped my brain around the earlier events more than the later ones) and stayed up late last night trying to finish this post, but I'll have to leave for work soon. I still haven't got to Baby Spice, Nikanor, or LordWhyt, but if I wait, the game will be over before I finish a post. I'll cast my vote tomorrow (leaning toward a LrdWhyt vote). I'll just stick to general impressions first.

-After the DF flip, I'm on the fence re: Furcolow. I originally suspected Furcolow for seeming cautious and eager to please (um...for Furcolow, anyway). His post sucking up to Percy and lecturing us on how , his useless "I'm making spreadsheets and totally planning to analyze this game"...it all gave me the impression he was nervous and trying not to make waves. I also hated how he claimed not to know there were roles and then tried to use it. But his bizarre spastic flip between DF and RC didn't look much like a bus.

Oso/having fitz, and jason look squeaky clean (although I was gradually getting a town read on both anyway) as a result of the flip. Locke is succinct and hard to read, but that's just his style. Given that he was early on the Dry-Fit wagon, it's enough for me to trust him for today. He needs to post more, though (said the pot to the kettle).

I've disagreed with almost all of I am Innocent's reads this game, and logic says his hop onto Dry-Fit looks a lot like a bus...but I had a really strong gut town read on him. Elmo looks worse for not going after Dry-Fit, but I got town points from our early interactions. Put him at neutral, leaning town. I'm not familiar with Benmage's scum meta, but he's always this abrasive and overconfident in his arguments when he's town. I disagree with him that the flip makes him look super-confirmed, but I don't see anything unusual there.

I've liked most of what Sotty's been doing this game. Sotty's attacks on Dry-Fit could go either way. Hers is the first vote that really looks like it could be a bus. But a couple of things she's done have rung as true: for example, her reasons (which came across as more of a townie thought processe than Percy's). And I'll trust jason's towntell on how she used his meta to defend him. I read Gonzo Mafia a while back, and remember Zach suspecting her as scum for misrepresenting his meta.

-Kaleidoscope is most likely town for his early hop on Dry-Fit. I find players like Kaleidoscope (who just post one-line suspicions like "X is so obvscum and lynch him!" with utter confidence) hard to read, though. Seriously, people! My philosophy is that if you cannot write a five-hundred word essay explaining the pros, cons, negatives, and positives of your top suspect, then it's not a real suspicion, just a guess. :P Kscope, can you do me a favour? What REASONS do you have for suspecting Red Coyote. Write one paragraph selling the lynch to me.

-Eek. I'd planned to vote Lrdwhyt in this post (although mostly for imkingdavid's play), but then I saw this from ikd, in reaction to Nikanor's day-cop claim:
Imkingdavid wrote:And what is your goal behind claiming this early, when you're not even at L-1?
I didn't like ikd's case on Benmage, and he made a few very wishy-washy and filler comments. Lrdwhyt's reaction to Dry-Fit's flip also seems off.

-Re: the three players being wagoned, I feel as though I'm missing something here from the flip. Everyone's going, "Ha ha, you're all busted! All...three of you, even though at most two of you can actually be scum."

Red Coyote:
Eh, it makes me uncomfortable that I don't have anything on him but gut, and yet he keeps doing so many little things that bother me even as he makes long, helpful, protown posts. For example, saying how "Mina is so focused on me" when I hadn't really attacked him that hard. Repeatedly making forced jokes and talking to people like they're naughty little children. I can give a list of quotes, but it's so many little things.

That said, his massive wagon analysis is good, and the last paragraph in particular (with his last words) makes me doubt my Red-scum read. I suppose some players can fake that level of helpfulness as scum, but the last part did seem sincere in comparison to the rest of his posts.

I could probably compromise on him, but my mind isn't made up yet.

Percy:
I'll be honest; I still haven't quite grokked what happened with Percy's contradiction. And considering only 2/15 player are scum, I doubt the speed of the Percy wagon says anything. But so far, I'd be against a Percy lynch.

Ironically, part of what's making me waver on Percy is that he's
playing too badly
to be scum. :P In the two outings I've seen from him, he's bused ruthlessly, and was much more manipulative. This looks more like a townie whose opinions bit him in the ass. But I also got a MAJOR town tell from his reaction to Red's post. I pretty much had the same "Oh, shit!" reaction to Red Coyote's last words (and I've played in a game where Percy had that "oh shit!" reaction to a lynched townie's last words), so it makes me feel a bit better about Percy.

-Eek, I really have to go now, so I'll save my thoughts on mongoose/Baby Spice and Nikanor for later. mongoose did a lot that was suspicious. But to be honest, I haven't read BS that carefully yet, so I'm not sure what the smoking gun was.

============================================================================
If anyone has questions for me, feel free, because I know I'm usually a lot more contributive and easy to read than this.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:45 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
I posted my RC suspicions in my biggest post in this thread. You can add the whole dry-fit situation to it.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 12:02 pm
by Benmage
Busy weekend sorry guys ill be back in here soon.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:15 pm
by havingfitz
Done reading...but it's late and I'm not as coherent as I'd like to be. I'll post thoughts/vote tomorrow after I have a chance to do a few ISOs.

Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:29 pm
by Locke Lamora
Looked over Red and I actually get a town read from the way he went about setting up a counter-wagon on Furcolow. I can understand his motivation there and I know I've done the same as town, with exactly the same results (the person who I tried to set up a counter-wagon to got lynched and flipped scum). My gut says he's town who ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and I feel like he put himself out there more than Percy. I know Percy voted Furcolow when Dry-fit was L-1, but I don't think Percy would have gained any towncred for hammering at that stage.

Also read back over IAI, and I'm more bothered about him than I am about Red. This comment to Oso in particular pings my scumdar:
I Am Innocent wrote: Went from 2/3 of the scum team to only Dry-Fit.
I thought the whole Dry-Fit argument was based on his FOS'ing a scumbuddy
. :?
It reads as though he's trying to make light of the Dry-fit case, making it sound less substantial. His play here seems less assured than what I've seen of him as scum, but his attitude towards Dry-fit strikes me as scummy.

Will read back some more now.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:57 am
by Zachrulez
2nd Vote Count of D1 P2


Percy - 6 (Benmage, RedCoyote, I Am Innocent, Locke Lamora, JasonT1981, KaleiÐoscøpe)
RedCoyote - 3 (Furcolow, Elmo, Sotty7)
Baby Spice - 1 (Nikanor)
Benmage - 1 (Baby Spice)

Not Voting: (Havingfitz, Percy, Mina, Lrdwhyt)

If I made any mistakes please politely point them out and I will correct them.

Deadline for Day 1 is Thursday November 12 at 12pm CST

With 15 alive it's 8 to lynch.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:39 am
by KaleiÐoscøpe
Let's lynch either Percy or Redcoyote before thursday, so we don't waste this time.

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:40 am
by havingfitz
After finishing my read I did not have a gut suspicion towards Percy and following an ISO to see what all the attention was about, nothing really jumped out at me. I.e. I’m not interested in a Percy lynch att.

The other frontrunner atm seems to be RedCoyote. His name did not come to mind following my read so I did an ISO on him. He stated off with, IMO, a baseless vote on Sotty but retracted it after Oso chimed in. Then he votes Jason (post 158) for being concerned about outing a cop (following Nik’s fakeclaim). I myself did the exact same thing in my only other Mountainous game so I can see where Jason was coming from with his initial suspicions towards Nik. Before starting my ISO on RC I was leaning town for him but after my ISO I could see RC being scum. I do like his last few votes though and I share some of his suspicions (mainly Sotty and Furcolow). If it came to a D1-p2 lynch between RC and Percy I would definitely lean towards RC. Though I like other suspects more.

IAI's theatrics throughout the game have him high on my list. I hate self votes; he undermined someone's towntell on him (based on the amount of effort he put into his stats) by mentioning his stats weren't difficult to produce; and he thought Dry fit was town but voted him anyway. I realize the DF vote was to ensure a lynch of any kind but I myself am opposed to lynching town reads under any circumstances. Part of IAIs defense against this is that would he (IAI) as scum...profess DF to be town.
He also has my predecessor as his biggest scum read and accuses him of not taking a stance. How can you have this opinion when Oso very clearly stated his thoughts and backed them up with his vote. Also...why is your vote on Percy? I don’t see you voicing any suspicions towards him prior to DF’s lynch.

The fact DF had a chance to hop on the RC wagon and deflect momentum off of his own wagon strikes me as suspicious towards RC (who never put a vote on DF). I need to check the DF-RC interactions if any.

Furcolow...I really don’t care for his game (no offense Furc) and the way he has been all over the place in this game. His late unvote on Dry-fit (post 361) followed by an almost immediate revote on DF after IAI called him out on it is hard for me to dismiss. He did spend a lot of the day on DF’s wagon but he was on several others as well.

An ISO on DF finds him mildly coming to RC’s defense in post 107. He blasts Furcolow in post 159 and then proceeds to vote jason without little rationale. Then in post 255 DF appears to come to RC’s defense again...this time a little more adamant then in post 107. I’m not sure what to make of DF’s references to other players in his last post (post 340)...by this point he had 7 votes and could have been tossing out a few WIFOM seeds for us to consider...ex: ~”it’s best to ignore Furcolow’s play, IKD suspicions, a thin defense of Benmage and query regarding KScope. Since I’m not sure what to make of it I’ll ignore it for now.

I think my main suspect att is Sotty (Hi Sotty! :-) ). Main reason as I finished my read was due to gut. I don’t know her suspicions towards Nik and her willingness to come off IAI’s wagon after he freaked out. Her comments regarding scum being able to talk during the day seemed off to me coupled with saying she had discussed day talk with the mod. I don’t guess that is a scum tell but it just doesn’t sit right with me. In 281 she laments that she will probably be moving her vote off Nik to DF or RC. She says,
I'll be honest, it's a toss up between those two for me. Both have horrible votes on Jason, both have been non committal (probably more Dry Fit than Red here). I'm leaning towards Red right now though. I will look though both ISOs before I leap.
Also...not sure why she is voting RC atm. She never voted RC in phase 1 and in fact made a decent case on his behalf when deciding to join the DF wagon vs the RC wagon. That said...if Sotty was scum (and Percy wasn’t) if would be easy for her to add to the momentum that is the Percy wagon.

Tl:dr, my list of suspects in no particular order is IAI, Furcolow, RC and Sotty and I would support any of their lynches in phase2. I do not think Percy is scum and I do not think that Sotty and RC are scum partners. I’d be happy with either an RC or a Sotty lynch as in my mind the outcome of either would clear or implicate the other. I also think there is scum in the IAI and Furcolow pair with my frontrunner by a narrow margin being Furcolow.

That said....VOTE: RedCoyote

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:42 am
by Sotty7
RedCoyote Post 426 wrote:Sotty and IAI are particularly interesting, because they both practiced a in a bit of a slap fight throughout the game.
Slap fight? This sounds like you are playing down the opening exchange I had with IAI in an effort to make it look scummy. Just come out and break down what you find scummy about it, these kind of subtle jabs don't look good.
RedCoyote Post 426 wrote:Sotty comes up not too long after, and interestingly she mentions that Dry-fit is her second biggest suspect and that Locke and Kscope are her best town reads. This is almost too coincidental. She was alone on the Nikanor wagon. She was backing up the Dry-fit wagon, and she thought the two most recent proponents of the wagon were her biggest town reads. I think I took issue with this at the time, but I never followed up on it. Locke and Kscope had given very few posts and opinions up to this point. Kscope in particular had been tight-lipped. For Sotty to claim them both as her biggest town reads is suspect just due to the fact that they weren't very active (nevermind that they both happened to be right in their Dry-fit suspicions).
I explained both my town reads on KScope and Locke, do you have an actual issue with what I stated? Kinda sounds like you do but you never challenged me apart from pointing out Locke not getting your wagon. I don't see anything you list here as scummy and unless you break it down it is looking a lot like mud slinging.

You need to go into detail
why
this is scummy. It's all very vague and by default, weak and scummy.

I'll say now Jason and Locke are now my two biggest town reads. Wanna fight them too?

= = = = = =
Baby Spice Post 427 wrote:Think I said hinky not scummy btw.
Wishy washy language is wishy washy.

(That means I find it scummy btw)

Your vote is on benmage who was a big force behind the Dry-Fit lynch, what is your case on him? Why was Jason's reason to hammer so poor? Why no comment on Nik's vote on you?


= = = = =

This is a great post. The only way it would be any better was if IAI's vote was on Nikanor instead of Percy but I will deal.

I agree that IKD's reaction to Nikanor's claim is suspect. That pushes Lrdwhyt higher up my scum list, but I would really like to see more from him. Red, Nikanor, Baby Spice are my other scum reads at this point. Percy's plea post happening soon after Red's trips an alarm in my mind, but I still have a more of gut town read on him. I understand his suspicions on me for example, while Red's are awful. I do need to look closer at the whole scum list issue that has been put out there. But my initial reaction was 100 posts happened between those two Percy posts, not sure if it is as damning as people want to say.

I'm happy enough to keep my vote on Red, but I need to review some more.

EDIT BY WAY OF PREVIEW: I see Fitz has made a post, I'll give it a read in a mo.