Mafiascum.net

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:23 am**

Spoiler: End of Page 8 Infodump

Ghostlin wrote:Anyhow, onto random/not so random vote: Vote: Werewolf, you coasted along with one liners and being not so active, which wasn't helpful in our other game. I'm not a huge fan of policy lynch, but until a more serious lynch comes along, that vote will do.

I don't like the policy vote backed up with "but not for long" language. If you don't like policy votes, why make one? If this wasn't one, why did you bring it up? If it was a policy vote, what was the purpose if you have 0 intention of following through, especially if you announce that to the thread.

Reads like fluff posting, plus placing a vote because he has to, not because he wants to. BLENDING WITH TOWN.

WrathChild's 23 seems overly concerned with what others think about him. Given his not RVS'ing in his first post, but then RVSing in his second when ani RVS'd him over the lack of a vote only furthers this conclusion.

Nexus wrote:Question: Those who are currently electing, are they random votes, or are you actually electing the people you want to send backstage?

Odd question considering that plenty of discussion has already occured around who/why to elect. I also don't see any scum hunting potential in the question. Fluff posting.

SGR's 26 doesn't make sense to me. It's pretty obvious what Ythill is doing, what's the problem?

LL wrote:I agree with Llama; discussing the possibilities of who to sacrifice/resurrect is pointless when we don't have any flips.

Considering that the mechanic specifically says we can't use it D1, this is true.

Seacore wrote:
Locke Lamora wrote:
WrathChild wrote: I just want to add that I'm primarily a 9-5 PST poster on the weekdays and mostly offline on the weekends.
Is there a particular reason you mentioned this?

unvote. vote Locke

unelect Locke

That's odd, I think the question was perfectly valid. The point is that WC seems pretty concerned with what others will think of him. Like he's preemptively avoiding any "why is WC lurking" attacks. Also Ythill and SGR pile on to this. I don't get it, am I missing something? The question looks really good to me.

farside22 wrote:Ythill: Please don't tell me you are referring to the OMGUS vote my wraith as scummy?
Are you a really going to tell me page 1 that scum are going to come in say hi I'm scum and do the most obvious thing?

wait........reads wraith's response.

unvote:
vote: wraith

This post feels... forced. Or phoney. Something along those lines.

SGR wrote:If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for:

1) Suspecting WraithChild under no basis (Cause he didn't RV? Doesn't matter. Cause he said "First Post"? Means jackshit. Cause he joked "OMGUS", doesn't mean crap either

2) Thanking WraithChild for a confirmation on being scum, where in the last post he didn't say absolutely anything that would confirm or even slightly give a scum tell (For saying he is inactive at certain parts of the day? Nope, and ythill suspected Locke based on him quoting that. For saying he has victories as Mafia on another game? WIFOM at best, WTH at worst.

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

Disagree. A LOT. Also, what's with the "I know I sound like I'm buddying...". Guilty Conscious?

Gaggle wrote:Unvote
Vote: SGR
If you'd like to tango, Ythill, we'll be right here.

This just reads townie to me. Not sure if I know exactly why. Perhaps the pure openness?

WC wrote:There has been like 40 posts how can you base a judgement of trust on that? A lot can happen over the course of a day. You mean to tell me that you want to elect the players you trust the most based on their past performances? How do you trust anyone at this point of the game? Do you have information I don't?

If we can elect during twilight it's a no brainer that we wait until then.

40 posts in and I already trust people. This "suspect everyone" thinking is from a scum-mindset.

WC wrote:I just meant that we need to base these votes off reads and that the people voting already ARE NOT basing their votes off reads, but instead voting on the poster, but this is a pretty bad way to go about considering the whole random distribution thing.

What does random distribution have anything to do with this?

Ghostlin wrote:Except...I just read Llama's ISO, and he didn't mention anything like this. Ythill DID mention sacrifices, but he advocated the opposite (sacrificing players that are blatantly VIs). Hence, where are you getting the information from? I'd like you to explain what you meant, because I'm uneasy with the thought that you pulled this from somewhere less public than the normal thread.

Unvote; Vote: LL

This vote is OPPORTUNISTIC. The reasoning behind it is fail, since Llama did mention it here:

Llama wrote:There is no real point to get into resurect at this point since no one is dead.

The only other post from Ghostlin to this point is the fluff/worthless post mentioned above. Ghostlin sat back, did not engage in the game in any meaningful way, and then engaged the first easy target he saw. I say easy target because this post was preceeded by 3 seperate players attacking LL (SGR, Seacore, and Ythill). So not only does Ghostlin make an opportunistic attack, he completely fails in the execution. SCUMTASTIC.

ani wrote:Elect farside22, Ythill, LlamaFluff Because I trust their judgement. Even if Llama is policy voting me. It's an early D1 vote. I'm not worried. Wraith's vote is stupid, and unless I see some underlying scum reason to OMGUS vote a voter who random voted him (extremely unlikely), then I'll ignore it.

I stand by my Wraith vote, however. All Wraith has done so far is explain how many games he's been in, defend himself and give us a very tiny amount of meta.

I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".

Townie.

WC's 55 is still overly concerned with what others think of him.

WC wrote:I'm getting voted for no reason

Lie.

Seacore wrote:Wrath. Stop defending yourself.

If you are town, and I have no significant read on you yet, but if you are town you are doing no good in defending yourself. You are going to make the next 5 pages all about you and waste our time.
Instead, scum hunt. If you are scum, your scum hunting should suck, and we'll catch you. If you are town, actually do the town some good.

Also, 0/0 is not 100%, but that's a separate issue.

Scum-coaching vibe. Given Seacore's attack against LL, who was pressuring WC, this makes me really nervous. As does this "If you are town, and I have no significant read on you yet..." buisness. SIT THAT FENCE. Major scum points here, conditional on WC scum flip.

Gaggle wrote: Try 10-20.

Wrath. You've made your point. Please calm down, go for a walk, watch an episode of law and order, etc.
Then come back and make a case on someone. It doesn't have to be airtight (and obviously can't be) (inb4 Saint calls using parenthesis a scumtell), but it should show that you are analyzing the posts in the thread.

In other news,
Elect: Ghostlin
Elect: Seacore

GAH! These elects seem SO BAD to me. Explanation PLEASE.

OGML wrote:Guys, SGRaaize is scum, lets get him

Ghostlin wrote:
SGRaaize wrote:
animorpherv1 wrote:I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".
I lol'd
I immediatly
FOS
you (Dohohohoh, OMGUS) because you actually think for a second that Scum would not only buddy on their scumpartner, but do it as openly, cleanly and quickly as now.
If I do end up getting lynched... may god have mercy on Town's soul

As far as the SGR lynch topic goes, of course this will be biased, but when I see someone defend a player who was not in need of a defense at the time (Yes, I did not need anyone to stick up for me because the votes on me make no sense and I consider them non-threatening at this time), I tend to think it is scum trying to buddy-up with a townie that they see as a likely lynch in an attempt to gain town-points. I think that scum-babying is incredibly obvious and would be avoided at all costs by scum.
Its not so much as me defending you as me trying to get the logic behind your lynch so I can kill you
First point: I'm sure we, as town, will somehow incredibly survive if you somehow made it to the gallows. The FOS uses the 'scum wouldn't be so stupid to do that argument,' which is invalid, and illogical, and could lead to WIFOM. AtE noted.

Second point: This just sounds scummy. Why not ask the other players for a case? 'Oh, hi, I'm just going to defend you until I can figure out a way to kill you' in the hands of scum is like, 'Hi, I don't want to look like I'm sheeping but I want to find a legit way to throw you under the bus.'

I disliked your first post for being completely devoid of anything useful, and your second post reads like a scummy player.

Unvote. Vote: SGR

WrathChild wrote:You're right on the 0/0, I'm gonna fix that. Thanks NERD!
What are you, nine? This is puerile and doesn't belong in a defense. Particularly when it's a good point.
IGMEOY: WrathChild

Haven't done this yet.

Elect: Ghostlin
: Obv.

Elect: GaggleofGeese
: I've played with Chess before, and have been less than impressed, so I'm surprised at this election, HOWEVER, GG has shown remarkably good judgement in the beginning of this game.

Elect: Ythill
: Disliking of his Wrath vote or not, the way he's handled himself seems pretty townie in this very early stage. He's kept up the pressure and is actively scumhunting.

Ghostlin abandons his LL position without a single word on the subject, and immediately starts with another sheeping other opinions wagon. GHOSTLIN IS OPPORTUNISTIC SCUM. Oh, and then to top it off, his elects are Self, Buddy, Buddy. GHOSTLIN IS SCUM.

Ythill wrote:You seem very interested in learning the meta for what is considered scummy here. Seems like a defensive tactic. Scumpoint three.

I doubt OGML was joking.

QFT. WC's entire play to this point can be sumarised as "overly concerned with what is/isn't scummy, and why others have the opinions of him that they do".

Seacore wrote:Ythill, I used to get burned like WrathChild is when I first joined MS. MS has it's own memes and differing from them earns you scum points. I was primary lynch target Day 1 in my first several games, and I've yet to be scum on this site. So I'm not too worried about.

But WC has earned scum points for a huge gap of logic in his last post. If I thought those actions were a scum tell, do you think I would just accept it and move on? No, it's a null tell, as I've said it's just a playstyle. If all we had to do to find scum was look for people not even attempting to provide evidence, it would be pretty easy.

Still, Locke is winning in scum points.

Seacore continues in the WC defense/not-really-a-defense sit-the-fence-and-be-prepared-to-come-down-either-way play. THIS IS SCUMMY BEHAVIOR.

SGR wrote:Vote Lynch: Ghostlin

WrathChild admitting to trying to sound less suspicious sounds good, but Ghostlin voting me with bad arguments and lack of attention leads me to believe he's just trying to look good while joining a BW he thinks will pick up steam

THIS THIS THIS. QF FUCKING TRUTH.

Ythill wrote:@SGR: I hope you're not one of those bandwagoning-is-bad players because the opposite is clearly true.

It's not the bandwagonning that is bad, it's the manner in which he is doing it.

farside22 wrote:@Ghostlin: Which of Ythill's 3 of post looked like he handled himself well and kept pressure going?
And why?

In regards to SGR:
I find it odd that SGR would defend Wraith so earnestly. He does state he sucks at mafia so is it far outside the realms for him to defend his scum partner?
Also what the hell is with 2 fos's and no votes? What is the point of an fos? What is the point of not voting?

@SGR: Did you read the book the game is named after?
Why vote for Ghostlin over lets say morph who had poor reasoning to vote for you?

Elect: farside, ythill

Good posting.

Page 6 AGar OGML reads town-town to me. Subject to change.

OMFG EVERYONE ON PAGE 6 IS VOTING ANI INSTEAD OF OBV-SCUM GHOSTLIN. WTF!

Gaggle-Ythill interaction on page 6 is making me doubt my Gaggle town read. Somehow I've got the feeling that this is chess posting and not Faraday.

Ghostlin wrote:This interests and concerns me. It interests me because according to this, I'm Ythill's #1 scumtell, full of congitive dissonance and pouplist: and yet he doesn't vote for me. If the point of the day 1 exercise is to get wagons moving and suspect as many people as you can, not voting your biggest scumtell seems...wrong to me. It either says he's not confident on getting a case on me, which hasn't stopped some folks in town or that he feels I'm really not the best lynch for today, which makes no sense if I'm really your number 1 scumtell you should be more than willing to get rid of me.

Sorry, no. I see some of you electing Ythill, I'm questioning his motives in posting a scumlist and not following up on it. It's insincere.

Unelect: Ythill

I need to reread the game, see what people are seeing about Ani, and maybe even decide if Ythill's worth a vote.

LOL! This post is so awesome. L O L! The only reason he was electing Ythill in the first place was to blend with the town, who were for the most part electing Ythill.

Page 7 is turning the game to awesome with the Ghost votes.

WC wrote:OK, I'm back, and people saying I dropped off the face of the earth are exactly why I posted my schedule. BRB with comments.

Convenient absence was convenient.

LL-SGR page 7 reads town-town to me.

WC wrote:7. Ghostlin: Obviously didn't get my nerd joke, sarcasm is hard on the internet. So after I read his ISO, I had to go back and look at the cases being made on him because nothing really jumped out at me. I see Ythill put him at the top of his scumlist, but I see no explanation as to why. When pried further Ythill mentions Too Helpfull in #22 (I don't get this impression at all), Skimming and cognative dissonance in #43 (I do see some evidence of that and I think SGR and Seacore touch on that too) and populist in #76 (I have no clue what that term means in Mafia). Overall I don't get scum-read on Ghost.

I bet you don't.

Seacore wrote:I see Locke responded much earlier to my concern about his comment to WC about his schedule. I missed it, and I thought Locke not responding to it was a bigger scum tell than the original comment.

But he did respond, my bad.

as such Unvote. But maintain a slight FOS, I still think it could be scum looking for an easy angle.

Instead, I will jump onboard the Ghostlin train, he looks scummier than he did in No Exit Mafia, where he was town.
Vote Ghostlin

When Ghost flips scum I'm calling this a bus. Just FYI. Since I know this wagon falls apart, I'm paying particular scrutiny to where Seacore goes from here.

TL;DR

TOWN
Ythill
farside22
SGRaaize
OhGodMyLife
Locke Lamora
Llamafluff
AGar
A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)
vezokpiraka
Tasky
animorpherv1
Saint
Apokalyptika
Nexus
Seacore
WrathChild
Ghostlin
SCUM

Vote: Ghostlin
Elect: Ythill, farside, Gaggle

Rest of game catchup to come ASAP.

ALSO, WTF HAPPENED TO GHOSTLIN WAGON, OMFG!!!!

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:31 am**

Those elects were because they are town.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:48 am**

/Brofist LynchMePlz

Welcome aboard

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:52 am**

vezokpiraka wrote:Ythill is town.

I'm pretty sure.

Saint and MoI come out bad from this.

your defense is noted, however I feel you are just bad as town

Ythill wrote:
Saint's town.
He's just being dumb.

scumslip?

Ythill wrote:So hey guys, it's mardi gras and I am pleasantly drunk. I would like a drunkwagon on Nexus.

Am I going to need to give you beads?

Nice to see your play has deteriorated to one liners now that someone has a vote on you.

Ythill wrote:That vote count would be much cooler id someone other than OGML had more than three votes on them. Srsly.

I would be happy seeing you with around 10 votes myself.

farside22 wrote:
AGar wrote:
farside22 wrote:
Agar wrote:I read a higher level of commitment to the wagon from him as it gained steam, which happened after I gave my (Fate's, in all truthfulness) theory on large game wagonning and consolidation, and he said the theory was essentially bunk.
So your theory so far is that your statment is that he has a higher level of commitment on the wagon......
Huh?
Badly worded.
Your theory is that ghost "had a higher level of commitment" on someone because of your comment.
Then read the rest of what I said after that.

You basically just reworded his post here... What's the deal with that? Scummy

unelect: farside

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:58 am**

farside22 wrote:
SGRaaize wrote:
farside22 wrote:SGR- I don't care for SGR 3 people he wants to vote. All 3 had stated a issue with him. The worst one is LL. Why wasn't OGML on the list? Why do you think OGML is a townie that is not trying hard, rather then scum making a crap case? What reason did you find was valid against OGML? Why do you think there is enough info for the day to end?
1) You don't think Ani and Ghostlin are scum?
2) I have been changed my mind by the way OGML has acted under suspicions, and also the arguments used against him
3) There is enough info for the day to end because we have been moving at a snail's pace since we started a lynch on OGML
1) Ani, yes - Ghostlin I did but rereading I can't say town, but null
2) okay that's vague. What was it that you saw that got you to that conclusion? Which arguments changed your view?
3) You've been on MS how long? Really this is normal speed and some people are behind.

unvote:
vote: Nexus

oooooo into bandwagonning, and I dislike point 3
What is the point in that? It doesn't make sense

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:
Unvote

Vote: Nexus

Well, since clearly us v. Farside is not getting resolved today, and we still have a townread on OGML, we'll join this wagon.

WOW even more bandwagonning
Let's all sheep drunken Ythill, who is likely scum.
I expected more of you all.

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:We'd also wagon MOI in a fucking instant. Like just say the word and we'll be there quicker than batman.

I bet you all would be willing to lynch about 75% of the playslots

SGRaaize wrote:I got it on the "Users browsing this forum". I saw you a lot of times there

I liked your post about agar, werewolf, etc
I also like this post
+towncred in my eyes

vezokpiraka wrote:I don't get the obv town feeling I get from Magna. That's bad.

I'm not getting it either.
Yet I get it from you... however, your reads are usually bad.
What are your feelings in terms of likelihood of these players being scum together:
MoI+Farside, or Ythill+Farside?
I have a feeling you are going to go with MoI, if so, can you expain why they would be more likely to be scum with farside than Ythill? I have a feeling one of these 3 are scum at least, and I am feeling it is more likely to come from the latter. I feel like MoI's play being a little off is due to replacing in, not being scum.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:59 am**

elect: Saint

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:01 am**

Saint wrote:
A Gaggle of Geese wrote:We'd also wagon MOI in a fucking instant. Like just say the word and we'll be there quicker than batman.
I bet you all would be willing to lynch about 75% of the playslots

Where did this come from?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:11 am**

I agree that Nexus' 379 was scumtacular. However, I think I see a better vote candidate at the moment (well, more than one, but...)

Speaking of which, vezok: Still waiting for your AGar case. Actually, looking over your posts, I don't see you taking a single solid stance this whole game. Very sketchy.

Unvote, Vote: vezok

Until later, AGar.

Also, hi LynchMePls.

Preview edit: Saint, how are you so sure vezok's town?

Preview edit #2: Also, how on earth does SGR's quoted post give him towncred? My mind boggles. Coaching of vezok at the bottom of that last post, perhaps? Oh my, this is getting exciting. Also, you've got MoI as a suspect there, but you're still electing him...curiouser and curiouser.

Big Ol' FoS: Saint

Preview edit #3: Nice self-vote.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:21 am**

Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:15 am**

SGRaaize wrote:Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

I want to be perfectly clear that up until I started replacing in I never read this thread. I think the players that are listed at the bottom are for the subforum (ie. Players in Theme Park). Since I happen to be in other large theme games, that is why you saw my name down there, and not because I was reading this thread.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:17 am**

LynchMePls wrote: I want to be perfectly clear that up until I started replacing in I never read this thread.
I think the players that are listed at the bottom are for the subforum (ie. Players in Theme Park).
Since I happen to be in other large theme games, that is why you saw my name down there, and not because I was reading this thread.

The bolded is 100% fact. Anyhone in Large Themes shows up there.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:38 am**

Ooooh, I see. I thought it was about threads, not categories.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:10 am**

Ythill wrote:I was just wondering about your schedule defense. Since prods are every 48 hours in this game, I'd think you'd either bold a cyclic V/LA notice for the mod or differentiate between V/LA and lite content for the weekends. It seems like you're concerned about player perceptions but not mod perceptions.

THANK YOU!

Llama is underwhelming me this game. Usually Llama has me convinced he's obv-town by page 3.

vezokpiraka wrote:I don't see the ghostlin case.

That, is why you fail.

Ghostlin wrote:SGR's only built cases on people he's confident he can take to lynch. As soon as a person becomes popular, he seems to drop the case against them,

Read this. Read it again. Then look at Ghostlin's first 3-4 posts of the game. Bathe in the irony. Then vote Ghostlin.

Ythill wrote:I stopped reading that terrible IoA crap sandwich about halfway through. If you are town, learn to scumhunt... and hire an editor.

<3

Ythill wrote:
UNVOTE: Ghost
VOTE: OGML

Zoooooooooooom.

Ythill I'm calling it now that this move right here is what deflated the Ghostlin wagon. Why on earth did you do this?

GG wrote:Ghostlin:
ISO#0: We disagreed on his first post at first. This head took it as a mild towntell due to going A and B the C of D when asked about experience.
While we both agree that the post could be called bad from a strictly theory point of view, neither of us found it scummy.

ISO#1: Reading the thread closely, pro-town intent.

ISO#2: General Helpfulness

Unreal. I can't believe anyone can look at those three posts and call them town. Simply astonishing.

Ghostlin wrote:So I most everyone in ISO today, seeing if anything bit me, and I did find something.

It may be 'rude' to do this. At this point, I don't really care. Before he requested replacement, did you acutally read Tasky? Two of his posts are variants of 'no time, will read later.' Two are votes, one on SGR for his rather scummy 'I didn't do anything wrong post', he's voted three times, but renders a vote of his redundant; votes SGR and has to be prompted as to cough up a reason for voting him and then unvotes and votes AGar again for no reason. Which by the way, he's been sheeping all major wagons, flying under the radar: WC, SGR, and now the counter wagon on AGar.

Tasky's worth susspecting and it's worth applying pressure for his replacement to find out if the the tactics continue. The only people who have posted less are werewolf, who's sorta infamous for it, and vezok, who is all but a confirmed VI regardless of which game he plays.

Unvote: Vote: Tasky

This isn't a 'SGR isn't scum' post, this is a 'hey guys, why aren't we looking at someone that's obviously not posting in the best interests of town?' post. Frankly, I feel that SGR is still worth a look, but frankly, Tasky's pretty damn suspicious.

This comes after a number of players are calling SGR town. ONCE AGAIN, GHOSTLIN ABANDONS A WAGON IN FAVOR OF AN EASY TARGET/MISLYNCH. GHOSTLIN IS SCUM PEOPLE. WAKE UP!

Not completely sure how I feel about farside-GG interactions on page 11. Given GG's strange reads/play leading up to this point I'm favoring farside.

Ghostlin wrote:Regardless of how you feel about GG or farside, do we really want them to go backstage together, get into a possible argument that might derail and dominate the backstage talk considering how they're going at it RIGHT NOW?

YES!

OGML wrote:I find it interesting that SGR went to great lengths to make farside look as town as possible, then just went meh yeah don't care about AGar.

Vote: AGar

o.O

But then too many of my scum reads take this opportunity to shift to OGML wagon. Looks like they are sensing a building mislynch. In particular Ghostlin, Seacore and WC.

Seacore wrote:Oh, I want to vote OGML just for this post.

Also, FaraGaggle, it's not the opinions that made me think it was Chessagaggle posting, it was just the style. It was very reminiscent of recent tunneling attacks I've seen him do. At the moment, Gaggle v Farside is null read v null read for me. I'm more interested in a Ghostlin lynch. And I'm going to do some rereading and see whether I'm interested in an OGML lynch.

Considering he was the only one vote voting for so long and decided to start a bandwagon rather than join one that he felt was "pretty certain"... feels like scum. Could even be scum with AGar, but thats with not having a read on AGar.

Seacore wrote:I just did an ISO of OGML and it's moderately scummy.
There's a lack of scum hunting, there's rhetoric without cases. There's a lot of fluff.

I think OGML is scum. I think OGML could very well be scum with AGar due to two points. 1) AGar is on his list of "if SGR flips scum, these people are scum" there's no info there, so it could just be some light distancing. 2) He votes to start a wagon on AGar, knowing AGar isn't going to be a lynch today, but this way he can say "hey, I try to START a wagon on AGar ages ago, he can't possibly be my buddy.

But that relationship isn't based on whether AGar is scummy, I'll look into that lately.

So at the moment, I'll vote for Ghostlin or OGML, whichever has a larger wagon.

Seacore wrote:
Unvote
Vote OGML
Choo choo!

I knew the Seacore's Ghostlin vote was a bus. Parked until the timing was right and then off he went.

Ythill wrote:I have since built an actual townread on Seacore.

So, like I know you said you don't like to explain your town reads and stuffs, but I CAN HAZ ESPLUNASHUN!?!? Cause I've come to quite the opposite conclusion.

WrathChild wrote:I agree that we don't need to rush into an OGML lynch. We have plenty of time. In fact I find SGR's anxiousness to lynch him a bit suspicious as do I the push away from his lynch by Nexus and Ythill. I think it would be best just to leave him at L-2 until we are satisfied with today's discussions.

I love how eager WC is to make sure OGML is the lynch. "Lets take our time, but leave him at L-2 until we're ready". SO FUCKING SCUMMY.

Seacore wrote:I really don't like long Day 1s, they dilute how effective these early bandwagons are because all somebody needs to say is "hey, we still have crap long, lets try something else" and knowing somebody can do that means the wagons are much less informative.

Read more accurately "I don't like long Day 1s because I've successfully manuevered off my buddy and onto a mislynch, so lets get this over with".

GG wrote:MOI is scummy.

*sigh*

Saint wrote:Somehow I completely missed Locke's unvote, that is where that came from, MoI.
Add Locke to Ythill, and Nexus in the deterring of the lynch. Nexus didn't even unvote with it, so I don't see why that wagon is there, though in terms of him as a player I wouldn't mind the lynch. However, I'm just not seeing him as scum. I am viewing him as newish town, something I definitely am good at spotting.

I am suspicious of Ythill now. His vote has been way too spread out, and he doesn't even see a problem with that. He is also directly attacking my credibility, which is hurtful to the town.

unelect: Ythill
elect: MoI
unvote;
VOTE: Ythill

Wrong, but I gotta say I don't see scum attacking Ythill like this. Seems like a VI tell to me.

Ythill wrote:Saint's town. He's just being dumb.

LOL.

So the back half of this reread was at lot less thick than the first, mainly because people just went round and round on the same stuff.

I'm all caught up, and my reads now stand thus:

TOWN
Ythill
farside22
SGRaaize
Locke Lamora
OhGodMyLife
Saint
AGar
Llamafluff
A Gaggle of Geese (Faraday / chesskid3 hydra)
vezokpiraka
MagnaofIllusion
animorpherv1
Apokalyptika
Nexus
Seacore
WrathChild
Ghostlin
SCUM

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:37 am**

”I don’t get it. I don’t get how you talk, or the words you use or anything. One moment you’re a big dumb guy, the next you’re reading my friggin’ mind, and the next we’re talking about Herodotus.”

Lynch Vote Count

OhGodMyLife (6) – AGar, MagnaofIllusion, WrathChild, SGRaaize, Seacore, Ghostlin
Nexus (4) – Locke Lamora, Ythill, farside22, A Gaggle of Geese
AGar (2) – vezokpiraka, OhGodMyLife
Ghostlin (2) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls
SGRaaize (1) - animorpherv1
Ythill (1) – Saint
Vezokpiraka (1) - Apokalyptika

Not Voting (1):

Nexus

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

--------------

Backstage Vote Count:

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Farside22 (10) – animorpherv1, farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize, AGar, Ythill, Apokalyptika, Locke Lamora, MagnaofIllusion, LynchMePls
Ythill (10) – Llamafluff, Seacore, animorpherv1, Agar, farside22, SGRaaize, Vezokpiraka, Apokalyptika, Nexus, LynchMePls
A Gaggle of Geese (10) – Vezokpiraka, WrathChild, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika, AGar, Llamafluff, Locke Lamora, OhGodMyLife, Nexus, LynchMePls
Seacore (7) – Ythill, Seacore, Vezokpiraka, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, WrathChild, Nexus
---
Llamafluff (5) – Ythill, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1, Locke Lamora
AGar (3) – WrathChild, Saint, MagnaofIllusion
Ghostlin (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, Ghostlin
MagnaofIllusion (2) – MagnaofIllusion, Saint
SGRaaize (1) – OhGodMyLife
Locke Lamora (1) – farside22
Saint (1) - Saint

Not Voting (2):

A Gaggle of Geese x1, Ghostlin x1

Today's deadline is March 19 at 6:00 PM EST

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:43 am**

@LMP, my vote for Ghostlin is hardly a bus. I have stated that I will vote for whichever wagon is larger. I have completely stated my motivations, and what my actions will be in different scenarios. I sat on Ghostlin up until the point that enough people were willing to lynch OGML. The moment this wagon dries up I'll jump back. There's no stealth or secrecy in these switches, I've stated my two scum reads, have openly campaigned for the lynching of both and have been transparent about it the whole way through.

How is my jumping from one to the other different from Ythill's? Except for the fact that he also jumped off OGML?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:57 am**

Hey Nexus, you pretty much just ignored my other point in my last post, so I'll ask more directly: why do you have a town-read on OGML when you have nothing to back that up?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:09 am**

I don't know. I think that someone acting like that much of an idiot can't be scum, because scum would be more careful. So, I think he's town. Probably naive of me.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:19 am**

Seacore wrote:@LMP, my vote for Ghostlin is hardly a bus. I have stated that I will vote for whichever wagon is larger. I have completely stated my motivations, and what my actions will be in different scenarios. I sat on Ghostlin up until the point that enough people were willing to lynch OGML. The moment this wagon dries up I'll jump back. There's no stealth or secrecy in these switches, I've stated my two scum reads, have openly campaigned for the lynching of both and have been transparent about it the whole way through.

How is my jumping from one to the other different from Ythill's? Except for the fact that he also jumped off OGML?

Because you had multiple other actions that I think are scummy (as noted in my catchup post) and Ythill has like 12343129781435 town tells all over his ISO.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:27 am**

Okay, but giving me scum points for something that somebody else did is circular.

Why is it scummy of me to do it but not scummy of somebody else? Because I'm scummy.

I'm content with the other scum points I earned. I knew I'd earn coaching scum points from at least somebody for the way I dealt with WC, I'm just sick of those kinds of arguments taking over D1, so I stepped in. But that's fine, I accepted that when I wrote it.

But giving me extra scum points because you already have a scum read of me is dumb.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:38 am**

Saint: do you think I'm scum too?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:57 am**

Ythill wrote:
Llama wrote:this is probably the only time I have played with him where I thought he wasnt scum after the first ten pages.
Unless he
was
scum in all those other games, this seems like reason enough to keep an eye on him.

Actually he HAS been scum in one of the games (granted scum with me) but he seemed extremely obvious and after about a day I needed to bus him. This is just an unprecidented number of not-scum looking I have seen him appear outside of a game where he got confirmed as town.

farside22 wrote:
llama wrote:
unvote
Vote Ghost

His entire early case against SGR is that SGR is trying to figure out what the ani case is somewhat inefficiently. I think its a good thing to try and force out that case, because im not too sure it exists at this point.
Can you explain how you come to the conclusion?

His case on SGR being about the ani case thing is in his iso-3. As I have said in the past, I really dont see a case on ani. Even with people trying to argue it to me, I think its a very weak case at best, and ani is probably town at this point.

For what farside is saying about me and ani, yes I do have ani as one of my policy lynches for many reasons and almost outed for the game when I saw him join, but I respect Jahudo and like the game so am biting the bullet here. I am not however going to policy lynch someone I have a slight town read on, unless that person is Nat where I will just replace out of the game on spot.

More fodder for why Ghost is scum comes from him leaving his options open again by FoSing someone he already has called scum saying he would be willing to lynch them. It feels like a fish to see if someone will follow him on it.

The OGML wagon starting off confuses me since I have him as mostly null. Love the response from Apoc to the wagon in 244 expect for the SGR is scum thing, I do somewhat agree with Agar-scum, he is a good gut read that I need to look into.

unelect GG
elect Apoc

I encourage a wagon sending Apoc backstage. He isnt posting much, but when he does, he is posting very well. Think this is a great type of player to send back.

Farside still pushing for ani-town reasoning... egh. His iso 1 is a town post, he shows no freakout over me trying to get him lynched on policy, he is making elects he thinks is best for the town, he is pushing a case. I just read town up and down from it. Nothing else is scummy, so he is leaning town.

This wagon on OGML still is bugging me, I sorta see where the push comes from, but I dont like it on a few levels, just feels wrong. People in particular that I dont like on it are Ghost, WC adn Agar.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:55 pm**

Enough time for quick responses...

Magna wrote:Learn to read, indeed.

LOL. Okay, yeah. That's what I get for drunk posting.

Magna wrote:I’m second on the fucking wagon so please demonstrate how I could possibly have come in late.

The Mod wrote:
MagnaofIllusion replaces Tasky, effective immediately. Thanks Magna!

@Saint:

LOL. Fail.

LMP wrote:Ythill I'm calling it now that this move right here is what deflated the Ghostlin wagon. Why on earth did you do this?

Seeking info. FTR, I'd still lynch Ghost over OGML.

LMP wrote:I love how eager WC is to make sure OGML is the lynch. "Lets take our time, but leave him at L-2 until we're ready". SO FUCKING SCUMMY.

Ooooh. I missed that one. Noted.

LMP looks town. Seacore and LL continue to look clear. Llama's #470 rambles too much and seems off-meta.

I'll do that needed reread and catch up my notes sometime in the next 24 hours. Then I may be ready for a lynch.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:18 pm**

Can someone please point out what OGML has done to give ANY ONE a town read on him. I just don't see it.

@LMP: How is me wanting to hold off a lynch so we can actually use the days until the deadline, instead of rushing it like SGR is doing, scummy? And SGR is now town list for you?

I a bit sick of this shit about my schedule comments. I was merely announcing it to the group as well as the mod? Then people asked me why I announced it causing me to repeat myself. This is my second game here (the first one you wrongly thought I was scum too) and I don't know the protocall. Was I supposed to PM it to the mod instead of announcing it in thread? Give me a break. I think you instantly took our issues from Cyclic Experiment, primaraly my mis-play on the roleblock and have me pinned as a player you don't want to play with. The way things look to me is that you came in with a chip on your shoulder and started off gunning for me from the get go.

Is that true? Am I a player you want to avoid because of last game?

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:19 pm**

EBWOP: "I'm a bit sick of this shit about my schedule comments. I was merely announcing it to the group as well as the mod."

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:27 pm**

Anyway, I think Ghost still is scum here. Likey with at least one of WC and Agar.

Lets look at all the options he has opened for himself over the few days I was gone

Ghostlin wrote:At the moment
Fos: Ani
. I wouldn't mind lynching him at all today.

I mentioned this in my catchup, I see lots of fishing for an Ani wagon in this post.

Tasky's worth susspecting and it's worth applying pressure for his replacement to find out if the the tactics continue. The only people who have posted less are werewolf, who's sorta infamous for it, and vezok, who is all but a confirmed VI regardless of which game he plays.
...
This isn't a 'SGR isn't scum' post, this is a 'hey guys, why aren't we looking at someone that's obviously not posting in the best interests of town?' post. Frankly, I feel that SGR is still worth a look, but frankly, Tasky's pretty damn suspicious.

He quickly shuffles around to a third option, this one just doesnt make sense to me. He seems to just be throwing a temp vote there since he is already saying the vote only is going to stick around if the replacement continues to post nothingness. It feels like another lob to see if anyone bothers to bite. At the end he continues to keep the door open on SGR, bringing his possible vote count up to three.

Yeah, OMGL has a lot of posts, but no acutal cases or even much content. He also asks someone he supposedly thinks is scum who he should vote for out of two options, which I can't see the use of unless you wanted to play the WIFOM game with yourself. Or you didn't acutally believe in what you were saying. I am OK with this wagon.

Again ghost makes a jump for the big wagon, jumping on OGML as the wagon shows up. This follows suit with suddenly being happy with the big wagons.

Ghost is just jumping around on all of the big wagons, at all the times they become popular. This is shown in SGR who he abandoned once the wagon died out, ani when that wagon was a possibility, and OMGL now that its shown up.

I still like my vote at this point. Five days later and its still in the right place.

Mafiascum.net

American Gods Mafia - Game over