Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:01 pm
I guess you are right. She can't. I am just really frustrated that she is unable to read me - or anyone for that matter.
Scum don't care what they have to do to cement momentum on a mislynch. Their vote placements can be accompanied by well thought-out beautiful cases, or more reckless impulses. It really doesn't matter. As long as the lynch is pushed through - and we've all seen mislynches go through for the crappiest of reasons. Moreover the fact that no one questioned Sangres' voteChaos wrote:Wow, your third vote on a wagon reasoning sounds super confident in that second post. The first post says the vote timing is "exceptionally scummy". When asked to explain it, you act like you were called on in class and aren't sure of the answer. Also, you said you watch those votes to see if people are trying to cement mislynches, and then say that he didn't give the vote much thought. Those ideas seem contradictory to me. If he was trying to cement momentum on a mislynch, wouldn't he have given thought to the vote?
"Oh crap, my WK is not working. REVERSE! REVERSE! Recalibrating. New target found. Onward!"In post 452, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Oddly, I can buy that Bulbazak is actually this stubborn and bad at this game as town. I think lynching Chaos and Sangres should win us the game. If not, then lynching Bulbazak should do it.
I've been thinking about Nacho's entrance into the game and while I liked a lot of his posts, Nacho can beincrediblymanipulative if he wants to be. I particularly remember reading through a game of his (Buzzword Bingo) where he details in the scum QT exactly who he will manipulate and how. In this game, I would be the prime target for him to manipulate being I unfortunately managed to antagonize the entire town by pushing too hard on my reads. I overcompensated for something I felt I should have done in my last game where I was extremely careful not to defend townreads too hard and alienate people while doing so.
Whatever Nacho did, I still can't get over the fact that ffery made a bunch of posts that I didn't understand, refused to discuss reads with me, or explain those posts at all, and has been completely dismissive and gave me the cold shoulder about everything I posted and then Nacho came to smooth things over. It is almost like she was trying to bury her head in the sand and waiting for town to self-destruct which she never, ever does as town (for examples, refer to the above game or read the list of games in her wiki). I am honestly going to be quite disappointed if Sangres actually is town.
^ This post really makes no sense. It is stuff like this that makes me go back and forth on you constantly. Do youIn post 453, Bulbazak wrote:"Oh crap, my WK is not working. REVERSE! REVERSE! Recalibrating. New target found. Onward!"
Except I don't believe that's what this is. You encountered resistance on me from a source you weren't expecting, so you've changed directions and started going after someone else, in this case, Sangres.In post 455, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Do youactuallybelieve that town are less likely to reverse and recalibrate than scum?
You don't need to be townread as scum; first and foremost, you need to not be lynched which was a purpose that was being perfectly served by you reading F-16 as null-town based on your read on pitoli-scum. I could see the purpose of trying to convince you that he's town if you were scumreading, but it seems odd for F-16 to stick out his neck in order to be townread over scumread.In post 426, Bulbazak wrote:You're joking, right?
In post 426, Bulbazak wrote:I wasn't aware you had one.
In post 391, sangres wrote:At first, I didn't really like pitoli because the only thing she was doing was defusing other people's reads and waffling hard (#32, #51), and I was hoping to draw out some sort of reaction with my "counterwagon!" vote. Her reaction was voting me for the timing of my vote, not the obviously flawed logic or the weirdness of it, which felt off to me. I could understand if she thought it was something that was strange coming from me or obviously scummy, but timing was an odd way to justify it. "It just didn't feel like you gave it that much thought" was the first part where I got an inkling of a townread on her, but the fact that the timing was the main thing that bothered her still bothered me. #159 was also weird because it didn't seem like she was particularly convinced that I was town (why would she be worried about me being convinced that she's scum when I'm the scummiest person on the wagon?), but her posting after that point is more along the lines of what I expect from pitoli town. Her push on TiP seemed pretty fucking genuine (#331 especially), and I think ffery's reasons for townreading her are also pretty fucking good.
Immediately jumping to the conclusion of scum godfather seemed like a strange conclusion to draw. If my scum on someone requires them to be a scum godfather in order to be scum, I throw that shit out.In post 426, Bulbazak wrote:What Chaos pointed out about her wanting to be scanned by the cop is a pretty strong indicator, imo.
See, this is what I was hoping you would pick up on initially; this was the reaction I was expecting from you as town. But the reaction I got instead was some weird "oh their timing was off" which was totally not the problem at all, and that pinged for me.In post 451, pitoli wrote:My point at the time was that I didn't like how thoughtless the vote seemed because as far as I've played with Nacho and Ffery, they do not casually throw their vote around.
I'm sure ffery will have her own words about that when she wakes up in her odd sleep schedule way, but I think you're interpreting ffery's play thus far wrong, and I don't think you know how hydra dynamics alter ffery's scumplay (check completed Morph the Cat games for examples of that). "Make a bunch of shitty posts and then have the competent scum player dig her out" isn't exactly how ffery plays scum with strong scum partners.In post 452, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:It is almost like she was trying to bury her head in the sand and waiting for town to self-destruct which she never, ever does as town (for examples, refer to the above game or read the list of games in her wiki). I am honestly going to be quite disappointed if Sangres actually is town.
Why do you think F-16 scum chose the two hardest targets in the game to go after?In post 453, Bulbazak wrote:"Oh crap, my WK is not working. REVERSE! REVERSE! Recalibrating. New target found. Onward!"
I've learned to associate aggressiveness with town, and TPR seems to be playing more off of emotions than actual gameplay at this point. Her vote on ETL pinged town to me, if only because she's been townread by plenty of people so it'd be a dumb move by scum.In post 391, sangres wrote:Just a feeling, or do you maybe have something better?
Why CO?In post 399, sangres wrote:Bulbazak/CO seems particularly likely at the moment.
Plausible I suppose.In post 424, pitoli wrote:One scum in {F-16, Bulbazak, Sangres}. Yes? Yes.
I'll ask you too - why CO?In post 425, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Yes. I think Chaos is scum along with one of Bulbazak or Sangres but I am not sure who.
While this is technically true, most townies would realize that the risk vs reward isn't worth it (i.e., missing out on a potential hit on scum).In post 429, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I am not sure if you are one of those "town shouldn't worry about looking like town" people. But there is town motivation in asking to be cleared if the player in question feels that they would avoid a mislynch that way. Avoiding mislynches furthers the town wincon. If the player also feels that they can lead the town to victory by eliminating them as a potential mislynch, that also serves the town wincon.
Sorry if you responded to this/explained this before (or if you went over this during your far-too-long wall war with Bulb), but what exactly is it about PItoli's reaction that's town? You just said to me that it was townie, but never said why, and I still don't know why.In post 435, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Read her reaction to Sangres voting her.
Meh.In post 438, pitoli wrote:what townie actually minds being cleared? Like that would be kind of nice (and don't fucking lie - you all would feel the same).
Town change their mind a lot, but it's never an abrupt thing. Rather, it's more of a natural process.In post 455, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:^ This post really makes no sense. It is stuff like this that makes me go back and forth on you constantly. Do you actually believe that town are less likely to reverse and recalibrate than scum?
:/In post 461, sangres wrote:shitty posts
So, stupid=town. And because I am a good enough scumhunter to recognize that ETL was town instead of stupidly OMGUSing her, I am scum.I've learned to associate aggressiveness with town, and TPR seems to be playing more off of emotions than actual gameplay at this point. Her vote on ETL pinged town to me, if only because she's been townread by plenty of people so it'd be a dumb move by scum.
I like this. I like this a lot. It's a classic GF tell, and I completely forgot about it. Even if pitoli isn't scum, I think the fact that chaos is thinking this way makes him town. I am saddened that he thinks I'm scum, but I didn't help much there, I guess.In post 337, ChaosOmega wrote:Alright, my gut instinct says that the scum are The Purple Rose and pitoli, with pitoli being a godfather. The godfather thing is from this quote:It's not pro-town to want to be investigated by cops. If you know you're town, it's a wasted investigation that won't hit scum. A godfather would love to be "cleared" in such a manner, though.pitoli wrote:At this point I welcome any daycop (or night cop) to have their way with me
Can you make up your mind whether you want to push Sangres as scum or buddy up them?In post 457, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:I don't think that you as town would legitimately believe that me going for Sangres has real scum motivation (besides the obvious WIFOM aspect of scum wouldn't do it, so scum would do it to look town).
Sangres is a much more difficult player to push a lynch on than you are, considering they are individually the best players in the game even without a hydra. They are not going to get mislynched D1. Nacho also called me town whereas you have called me scum. Sangres are also persuasive enough to push a lynch on anybody they suspect. If I were scum and encountered resistance from Pitoli, I'd just wait for Nacho to come back and push you some more. Or I'd just push Chaos. Why even both accusing them?
I have my suspicions and I am being honest about them. The way you are twisting it to have scum motivation is astounding.
Except what he had a problem with was that my early read on him was predicated on Pitoli. He even said he didn't want to be read based on any associations, i.e. he would be scum if she flipped town. I can see scum motivation in trying to get townread by me in that instance.In post 461, sangres wrote: You don't need to be townread as scum; first and foremost, you need to not be lynched which was a purpose that was being perfectly served by you reading F-16 as null-town based on your read on pitoli-scum. I could see the purpose of trying to convince you that he's town if you were scumreading, but it seems odd for F-16 to stick out his neck in order to be townread over scumread.
It wasn't the primary point in the case, but it was a major piece of supporting evidence. Again, there's very little town motivation in asking the cop to scan you.In post 461, sangres wrote: Immediately jumping to the conclusion of scum godfather seemed like a strange conclusion to draw. If my scum on someone requires them to be a scum godfather in order to be scum, I throw that shit out.
Sometimes going after a strong player can gain you towncred, because nobody thinks that scum would be dumb enough to do so. However, it might also be because you and Ffery are not running at full steam yet. Early game would be the best time to push you as scum.In post 461, sangres wrote: Why do you think F-16 scum chose the two hardest targets in the game to go after?
In post 286, sangres wrote:Nacho may be ready to talk reads. I'm not yet.
In post 342, sangres wrote:Would you guys kindly back off for a little while and let this conversation happen?
I really, really don't understand why you are doing this. I am not even sure if it is alignment-relevant.
Dude that quote you responded to wasn't even about you at all. Please calm yourself. I'm not out to get you.In post 464, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:So, stupid=town. And because I am a good enough scumhunter to recognize that ETL was town instead of stupidly OMGUSing her, I am scum.
I've decided that as well, by the way. Leaning towards bad player because you're pretty fucking persistent and blockheaded.F16 wrote:You've decided that I am either a bad player or scum
I gave your mom good townie feelings.F16 wrote:ChaosOmega in no way should give you good townie feelings.
Agreed.Bulba wrote:Can you make up your mind whether you want to push Sangres as scum or buddy up them?
My gut said you were scum, so i wanted to go through your votes to see if anything strange was there. I collected the whole conversation between you and TIP to analyze it, and nothing stuck to me as scummy from you in that exchange. Posting it was a combination of transparency in what I was looking at and questioning TIP about his reasoning for voting F16.pitoli wrote:Chaos says "Hmmmm doesn't strike me as scummy" ???? right after he got done calling me a godfather? This doesn't strike me as cognitive dissonance, yet he says it. Why bother?
Fair enough. This is mainly because I'm pretty much null on a fair bit of players (you're a townread [obviously] F16 is to a lesser extent [unfortunately]; pitoli and TPR are my scum reads). I'll reevaluate and try to hammer down something more concrete on them after some deaths for a little more context (or if I need to abandon my reads for a deadline lynch D1).Lastsurvivor wrote:The only knock I have on CO is that he seems to only be focusing on certain players, and blatantly ignoring others
What limited experience I have with F-16 tells me that he's not a bad player.In post 473, ChaosOmega wrote:I've decided that as well, by the way. Leaning towards bad player because you're pretty fucking persistent and blockheaded.F16 wrote:You've decided that I am either a bad player or scum