Mini 359 Ranch Mafia- Game over


Forum rules
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #450 (ISO) » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:32 am

Post by kilmenator »

the problem now ctd, which i am sure you anticipated was the fact that it is now my word against yours. being that you took a chance as to if i would block bogre or not. i blocked bogre, not thinking about his claim, but now that i think about it, it makes both of your claims false, because 1. you didnt protect mbf like you said, so i dont buy your claim, and 2. because i would be dead if bogre's claim was true. we know both of our lynches. no doubt at all. unlike both thok and i were cleared by mbf. i cant understand why i am a peacock, but that defintely is what my PM said. therefore, ctd and bogre are scum.
klebian
klebian
Mafia Scum
klebian
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1371
Joined: July 30, 2006
Location: At the keyboard

Post Post #451 (ISO) » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:57 am

Post by klebian »

So uh, I'm considering the possibility of an insane cop...

Which means that we have 2 possible scumgroups: bogre/ctd or kilmenator/thok.

Eventually, I think, it'll boil down to my choice, but right now I'm thinking more of bogre/thok. I'm gonna give this a reread, but I don't know when I can do this since I'm leaving for vacation today and my access will be sporadic...
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #452 (ISO) » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:07 am

Post by Thok »

Technically, just from the fact that CTD is still alive, there are 5 possible scum pairs

1. kilmentor/thok
2. CTD/Bogre
3. CTD/kilmentor
4. CTD/thok
5. CTD/klebian

For completeness, I'll go through a rough sketch of what's needed for each setup.

1. Requires an insane MBF in a game that already has a miller. Requires town to have a cop, doc, backup, masons (one who is a vig), and a townie with kill protection, which combined may be seen as overpowered. Requires an explination of pig backup. Doesn't require an explination of peacock.

2. Requires only a sane cop, and is the most standard of the set ups required in all variations. Requires some explanation of peacock. Doesn't require explination of pig backup.

3. Requires kilmentor godfather or MBF naive, somewhat unusual setup. Doesn't require explination of pig backup or peacock.

4. Requires thok godfather or MBF naive, very unusual setup (extremely overpowered town), and explinations of pig backup and peacock.

5. Requires scum mason. Slightly overpowered town canceled out by scum mason. Requires explanation of peacock.

I still think that having both a miller and a cop with a weird sanity in a mini is unlikely. I've also given some reasons why a peacock on a ranch isn't that unusual, and CTD has yet to give any reasons for why a pig might backup humans. At the very least he should be forced to make up some flavor about his role.

I should also explain why I found Falcone scummy on joining in

a. Thesp on replacement felt that pablito and Falcone were scum together and got into an argument witth pablito. Falcone then places a second vote on pablito; that felt like a bus to me. Falcone is one of the bigger supporters of the lynch BJ, have pablito stop that lynch plan. Moreover, the next day Thesp turns up dead.

b. Falcone was the driving force of the Kain lynch.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #453 (ISO) » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:51 am

Post by kilmenator »

being that i know my role, and that i am a role blocker, i would doubt that MBF was niave, but here is the thing, thok could be the godfather. i am buying klebian's claim since there is no counter to his claim. i am not buying CTD's claim since he did NOT heal MBF and said that he would. so, maybe bogre is not CTD's scum partner, but being that CTD did not protect MBF as he said, i would have to say his claim is false. the thing about bogre is though that i did block him last night and if his claim is as he said it was, i would be dead, being that i blocked him. if i am understanding his claim fully.

my idea is that we lynch CTD being he didnt do as he claimed. tonight i will block bogre and see what happens. i am basically 100% that CTD is scum.
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2722
Joined: June 22, 2006
Location: Switzerland

Post Post #454 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:37 am

Post by CrashTextDummie »

Thok:

We both know that scenario 1 hits the jackpot. I find it funny that you call it overpowered, when it is actually the second one, which you call "standard", that would be imbalanced towards the town. Funny how you can even consider a set-up to be standard when it has a mason/vig/miller in it. It's quite obvious that this is not your run-of-the-mill basic set-up that you want us to believe it is. This is a themed mini after all.

Yes, a pig being back-up to humans is unusual (and not referenced in my role PM, which is relatively sparse on flavor anyway), and yes, a cop having sanity issues in a game with a miller is unusual. The most obvious explanation is that these things are counter-measures installed by the mod to avoid the game from being imbalanced. I am not really surprised by this, as the combination of mason/vig/miller has prepared me pretty well for these kinds of shenanigans.

You also failed to mention that your scum-group has some powers of its own: Kilmenator has proven herself to be a roleblocker, and I wouldn't be surprised if you were hiding some sort of power as well.

Kilmenator:
Your web of lies is incredibly flawed. There was only one good choice for a pro-town roleblocker to make last night:
Not to block anyone at all
. From your point of view this should have been very obvious; If the cop dies, the doc is lying, if the doc dies, the cop has a result. Instead you claimed to have blocked Bogre, which would have been an incredibly
dumb
move if you had even a shred of doubt, because it could have lost you the game instantly. Or could it?

I've read through Bogre's claim again. It states that he would kill if targetted
by an evil animal
at night for
death
. He later said you should have been dead if you tried to roleblock him and you immediately went "oh right! I should be dead, so you must be scum!". Obviously, Bogre should clarify which version of his claim is the correct one, but the fact that you jumped to this conclusion without any hesitation reveals what a lying scumbag you are. What you are suggesting is that you
deliberately risked losing the game just to test Bogre's claim
. You have to be kidding me.

You got careless. You thought you had this game in the bag, having successfully framed me. You placed your vote early to convince the other two townies that you were the real deal, while your scumbuddy hovered around for a bit, waiting for an opportunity to quicklynch. When it became obvious that they needed some more persuation, the two of you went all in. But your gamble didn't work. The scum are kilmenator and Thok. Better luck next time.

Confirm Vote: kilmenator
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2722
Joined: June 22, 2006
Location: Switzerland

Post Post #455 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:41 am

Post by CrashTextDummie »

EBWODP:

I forgot one thing. Why are you bringing up the possibility of Thok being a godfather
now
, Kilmenator? You did not suspect him at all yesterday, which is scummy by itself, and by your account, there shouldn't be any doubt left at all.

So why did you bring it up, Kilm? Afraid your credibility might be running a bit thin? After all, a bit of busing at this point can't hurt, seeing as it's game over if you manage to get me lynched...
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #456 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:57 am

Post by kilmenator »

nice try CTD- like i said before, i had totally forgotten about bogre's claim. and not blocking was not a pro-town choice anyway you cut it. i had to take a chance and try to block scumbeing that i had NO faith in your protecting power! you thought that is what i would do so that you could say that i blocked your healing power, and if i did block you you would have said that you healed MBF because you wouldnt have been able to make a kill.

i voted you right off because that is what i said i would do yesterday if MBF was not healed. the reason i never mentioned thok could be scum was because i dont think he is. when i mentioned it was because i wanted to think of all the possibilities. the big flaw in your logic is that BOTH thok and me are confirmed by the confirmed cop, and having a naive cop is not possible being that i know my role, and not likely with the setup. why oh why CTD have you been lurking? have you given up and thought you had lost until you check back in and see you havent been lynched yet? or was it so that you could see what klebian thought beiing that you know he is your only hope. you know bogre wont vote you because he is your scumbuddy. you know that if i am killed, being a pro-town you guys win.

we have to vote CTD, we can find out about bogre tonight as i will block him and see what happens. CTD is obviously scum- he didnt save MBF and i blocked bogre which cant be proven, but is true.

ps. i am not worried about my credibility. i havent been dishonest nor do i have a reason to.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #457 (ISO) » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:36 am

Post by Thok »

CrashTextDummie wrote:Kilmenator:
Your web of lies is incredibly flawed. There was only one good choice for a pro-town roleblocker to make last night:
Not to block anyone at all
. From your point of view this should have been very obvious; If the cop dies, the doc is lying, if the doc dies, the cop has a result. Instead you claimed to have blocked Bogre, which would have been an incredibly
dumb
move if you had even a shred of doubt, because it could have lost you the game instantly. Or could it?

I've read through Bogre's claim again. It states that he would kill if targetted
by an evil animal
at night for
death
. He later said you should have been dead if you tried to roleblock him and you immediately went "oh right! I should be dead, so you must be scum!". Obviously, Bogre should clarify which version of his claim is the correct one, but the fact that you jumped to this conclusion without any hesitation reveals what a lying scumbag you are. What you are suggesting is that you
deliberately risked losing the game just to test Bogre's claim
. You have to be kidding me.
The obviously solution is that Bogre is lying about the effects of his powers. Moreover, if kilmentor is protown, MBF's investigations made it extremely likely to her yesterday that Bogre was lying.

Also, on what planet is potentially stopping a nightkill the wrong play?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #458 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:25 pm

Post by kilmenator »

thinking more about things i realized something... bogre hasnt really posted... hmmm... i wonder why? is he laying back because during the night because CTD told him to? and something else, CTD took the risk that i would block him from making the kill, because if i did block him then he could say that he healed MBF, but the problem there would have been that MBF would have had another confirmed innocent or confirmed scum. thinking about it now, i probably should have block CTD because i was sure he and bogre were scum knowing that i am pro-town, i know that thok is pro-town and klebian is pretty much cleared. it was hard though because i figured CTD would have thought i would block him so he would have let bogre make the kill, but now i am just playing a guessing game and it doesnt really make much sense to do that.

CTD has to be scum because Thok and I are confirmed innocents by MBF.
klebian
klebian
Mafia Scum
klebian
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1371
Joined: July 30, 2006
Location: At the keyboard

Post Post #459 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:53 pm

Post by klebian »

Kilm, you're sorta ignoring that it's possible mike was insane...
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #460 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2006 4:58 pm

Post by kilmenator »

i am honestly not ignoring it, i know he couldnt have been insane being that i am not scum. therefore, the argument doesnt work for me. obviously CTD is scum. he doesnt believe i am a role blocker, yet claims i blocked him from protecting MBF. which cant be true is i am not a role blocker. klebian, CTD is scum. no doubt in my mind. i only wish that i would have blocked him instead of bogre so that MBF could confirm it.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #461 (ISO) » Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:08 pm

Post by Thok »

klebian wrote:Kilm, you're sorta ignoring that it's possible mike was insane...
Even if kilm is ignoring the issue, I haven't been. Much as I hate to say it, kilm is a newbie, and if she is protown (and I strongly believe that she is), it's not exactly easy for her to try to assume that MBF could be insane if she knows that that result is inconsistent with knowledge of her role.

I really don't want to have to deal with the issues of scum masons (and you hesitancy to vote CTD makes me worry about that scenario).

Have you read all of the posts me and CTD have made? Do you have any questions or issue you want anybody in the game to address?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #462 (ISO) » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:49 am

Post by kilmenator »

ok, so an insane cop would get inconsistent results. say, maybe could possibly get a guilty even though i am an innocent, and say thok is innocent could get either an innocent or a guilty, it wouldnt reallly matter alignment?
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #463 (ISO) » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:27 am

Post by Thok »

kilmenator wrote:ok, so an insane cop would get inconsistent results. say, maybe could possibly get a guilty even though i am an innocent, and say thok is innocent could get either an innocent or a guilty, it wouldnt reallly matter alignment?
What you've described is a random cop; an insane cop always gets the opposite results of what the truth.

Also, I think it would be in town's best interest if you announce who who are planning to role block tonight. (I assume it's Bogre, but I would like a public announcment).
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #464 (ISO) » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:21 am

Post by kilmenator »

well, the thing is, i will block either bogre or CTD, if we lynch CTD today, i will definetly block bogre, but depending on what happens today, it will either be CTD or bogre. hopefully we can get rid of CTD today, being that i am sure he is scum. waiting on either bogre, who by the way hasnt posted and may need a prod or klebian.
bogre prod please mod
EnderX
EnderX
Goon
EnderX
Goon
Goon
Posts: 240
Joined: July 4, 2005
Location: Somewhere...I think

Post Post #465 (ISO) » Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:58 pm

Post by EnderX »

Granted.
"No trees were harmed during the production of this post. However, several electrons were severely inconvenienced."
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2722
Joined: June 22, 2006
Location: Switzerland

Post Post #466 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:55 pm

Post by CrashTextDummie »

kilmenator wrote:i am honestly not ignoring it, i know he couldnt have been insane being that i am not scum. therefore, the argument doesnt work for me. obviously CTD is scum. he doesnt believe i am a role blocker, yet claims i blocked him from protecting MBF. which cant be true is i am not a role blocker. klebian, CTD is scum. no doubt in my mind. i only wish that i would have blocked him instead of bogre so that MBF could confirm it.
Stop twisting the facts, please. Kthxbai.

I never doubted that either you or your scumbuddy is a roleblocker, I just know for a fact that you didn't use this power the way you want us to believe.

Cute how you play the WIFOM game in your Post 458. I guess your scumbuddy didn't prepare you well enough for this situation during your nightsession. Or did you honestly not anticipate that I would put up a fight?

Speaking of which:
Is the blatant in-thread communication really necessary, Thok? You're supposed to do this things at night, you know.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #467 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:03 pm

Post by kilmenator »

Thok wrote: I really don't want to have to deal with the issues of scum masons (and you hesitancy to vote CTD makes me worry about that scenario).
i dont think this would be possibly unless there was only one scum left and then a scum mason, being that if there were two scum and a scum mason, the town would already have lost.

since an insane cop would get the opposite results every time, then thok must be cleared being that i know my role and i am protown so therefore, since MBF said i was cleared and thok was, i know that thok is pro-town.

@ CTD- the reason i brought up the fact that thok could be the godfather, was because i thought they were immune to cop investigations, and since everyone else was giving their idea of what the set-up could be, i thought i would bring that up for completeness. the fact is i am pretty sure that thok, klebian and myself are cleared being that MBF cleared thok and myself, and again- i know he wasnt insane because my role is protown and his investigation was correct for me- and i am pretty sure on klebian being pro-town being there is no othe claimed mason, unless there wasnt another mason... which i dont really know if that is possible... CTD is definetly scum or a lying townie, because he obviously is NOT a doc being that MBF was killed last night. so... i am pretty sure that you CTD are scum...

confirm vote CTD
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #468 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:05 pm

Post by kilmenator »

wow, we both posted at the same time... you know that you prethought the WIFOM stuff, that is why you were quick to go with a no lynch last night.
User avatar
kilmenator
kilmenator
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kilmenator
Goon
Goon
Posts: 826
Joined: May 14, 2006
Location: Somewhere, out there...

Post Post #469 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:07 pm

Post by kilmenator »

and whoa, what do you mean in thread communication? you know it is obvious that i am the role blocker, must be you told your scum partner to lay low today so when you are lynched he couldnt be accused of not voting you because he was scum, he could just say, hey i wasnt iin the thread at all, or is he waiting till someone else votes me so that he can quick lynch and win the game? hmm...
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #470 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:17 pm

Post by Thok »

CrashTextDummie wrote:Speaking of which:
Is the blatant in-thread communication really necessary, Thok? You're supposed to do this things at night, you know.
You do realize that I'm 99% certain that kilmentor is protown, right? I'm allowed to communicate in-thread with people I believe to be protown (or anybody for that matter). Your blatant attempt to paint that communication as scummy is noted.

I find it laughable that anybody would suggest that if I were scum, I wouldn't try discussing things with my partner at night.

You still haven't explained how a pig is a back up to two humans. You've also said your role PM is sparse on flavor: I want you to reveal all the flavor in your role PM (paraphrase it if needs be). I am willing to do the same. Note that even Bogre has given flavor to suggest why his role has the power he claims it does.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
CrashTextDummie
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2722
Joined: June 22, 2006
Location: Switzerland

Post Post #471 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:42 pm

Post by CrashTextDummie »

Oh, I'm sure you did discuss things with her, Thok. The way you keep making excuses for her ("much as I hate to admit, kilm is a newbie", etc.) indicates to me that you're not satisfied with the thoroughness of it yourself, though.

As I said before, I can't explain how I am a back up to humans. I am just a pig who would rather wallow in dirt all day long than raise my butt out of it. Only when the town is in utmost peril will I use my fine intellect and delicate nose to help out.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #472 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:16 pm

Post by Thok »

CrashTextDummie wrote:Oh, I'm sure you did discuss things with her, Thok. The way you keep making excuses for her ("much as I hate to admit, kilm is a newbie", etc.) indicates to me that you're not satisfied with the thoroughness of it yourself, though.

As I said before, I can't explain how I am a back up to humans.
I am just a pig who would rather wallow in dirt all day long than raise my butt out of it.
Only when the town is in utmost peril will I use my fine intellect and delicate nose to help out.
I'm sure that's in your PM, but that sure doesn't sound particularly friendly to me. It could just as easily continue "I will use my fine intellect to get rid of these people who interfere with my sloth." You could have come up with a better rewriting of that part. (See two can play the paint everything the opponent says as scummy.)

For all your talk of WIFOM, you've sure used it a lot today.

1. You've claimed kilmentor roleblocking somebody is scummy, when it's something that she would do as a roleblocker, independent of her alignment.

2. Talking in the thread is scummy, even though it's something we'd do independent of whether we are town or scum, since we need to discuss things somewhere. In fact, it's less likely we'd need to do it if we were scum, since we'd already have a chance to discuss it.

3. Being annoyed at kilmentor's defense is scummy, even though I'm 99% sure of her alignment, and I'd be annoyed at her potentially losing the game independent of whether or not I'm scum.

What, you don't expect me to let your lies go unrefuted?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #473 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:25 pm

Post by Thok »

Also, klebian, please freaking post something. Don't just dither around and say "But there might be an insane cop." Ask us questions, look at arguements, or say something.

(The same goes for Bogre, in the unlikely event that he's the other town member and klebian's the scum.)
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
User avatar
Thok
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
User avatar
User avatar
Thok
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Disgrace to SKs everywhere
Posts: 7013
Joined: March 28, 2005

Post Post #474 (ISO) » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:54 pm

Post by Thok »

Incidentally, since I promised it, my flavor says (roughly) I'm just cattle, part of the herd grazing on the ranch. I'm not sure what to do about the killings, but I'm willing to help stop anybody I think is responsible.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
Locked