Mafiascum.net

↑ shaddowez wrote:I don't like the fact that Flames had such a large wagon so quick in RVS. I know D1 gives a lot of time for messing around, but I would not be surprised at all if there was at least one scum on that wagon already.

This can be looked at as possibly defending-without-really-defending, or trying to deter anything that looks like an accusation of Flames without really looking like deterring it.

↑ shaddowez wrote:

Flames

- you have any other reads? I'm not a fan of your sudden near-180 immediately after I post about what looks like buddying/White Knighting.

This looks like possible coaching. It reads like scum telling scum "hey, you're being scummy, stop that."

↑ shaddowez wrote:I believe I am comfortable putting Flames at L-1 though. He has provided very little content, is using weak arguments as his cases and/or is voting with the current wagon (obviously not himself, I mean Rack. Seeing as I don't have any other strong supicions right now,

VOTE: Flames

Lots of qualification on the vote: he's only voting him because he doesn't have any strong suspicions, so it's easy to get out, but he still wants to be on the wagon. The vote looks like scum begrudgingly deciding to bus when they realize Flames is probably going down rather than town looking for scum. "Seeing as I don't have any other strong suspicions right now" also doesn't mesh very well with voting him to L-1, but those make plenty of sense together if it's a bus.

↑ shaddowez wrote:

↑ Elias_the_thief wrote:UNVOTE:
Shadow, how is this situation at all different than the wagon on Rack?

Mainly, post count. The wagon on Rack started day 1 with an RVS vote, and grew in just a few days. In that timeframe, and the time since the Flame wagon started, everyone has been posting, and there's been more content to scrutinize.
What does concern me about the new wagon is the fact that pretty much all the votes (including mine) are from people that just hopped from one wagon to the other.

So he's concerned about the wagon, and about the people on it, yet is still happy with putting it at L-1. There's also the classic thing here of throwing a general accusation at a bandwagon rather than any individual people on it - if it's concerning that all of these votes are from wagonhoppers, then town-shaddowez should elaborate on what people are scummy because of it, and why those people are less deserving of a vote than Flames. He's also continuing to give himself an out with respect to the wagon.

↑ shaddowez wrote:I'm still waiting to hear more from Neil before putting my vote back on him. He showed up, got mad, then disappeared again which isn't looking too good.

Note that he unvoted because of the replacement. Here he gives more tentative support for lynching the slot without really committing.

↑ shaddowez wrote:I really wanted to hear more from Neil before voting, but I'm not liking his disappearing act. I realize that he hasn't been onsite posting anywhere else, but he's also just over 12 hours away from a prod. I don't like the couple of posts that he's made, and while I wouldn't outright pin them as scummy, they do absolutely nothing to up my read from the slot.

VOTE: Neil

That's L-1. I will unvote if Neil starts posting again and I get around to it before somebody hammers.

This also looks like it could be scum trying to get on the wagon before it reaches the lynch because they see it as inevitable.

↑ shaddowez wrote:I don't like the claim. I've gone through Flames' ISO and saw no crumbs whatsoever...he knew he was in deep, and while it was RVS he did manage to pick up 4 votes in no time. If he had a PR, one would think that would be a good time to start crumbing. It also reads as a stall tactic - he started posting info, disappeared until what should have been after a prod, claims and says he has to disappear again.

I would say the saying he ISO'd flames is a favor in point of shaddowez town, but meh. Similar comments apply to this as to everything else.

It started to gain steam around 229 (Agar, Implosion, Aneninen), by 275 it consisted of (Agar, Implosion, Aneninen, Tman, Elias).
Elias unvoted in 278, right after Shadowez had joined in 276. Look at this: (Elias, 278). I strongly think that the Flames-wagon was different than the Rack-wagon. Shadowez pointed out the same thing in 280: . (Though, there is a small error in his logic: The Flames wagon was started with a RVS vote too, Agar never changed his vote on Day1.)

Before the replacement, the wagon was (Agar, Implosion, Aneninen, Tman, Shadowez), 300. Tammy joined for a short while, Implosion and Shadowez jumped off afterwards.

Mind the fact, that at this point of the game Neil had 3 (and 4, after Phok) votes, while there were two 2-votes-wagons, Rack and Tman. Phokdapolees joined and Implosion rejoined, Chaos put Neil at L–1 afterwards. Anyone of them, especially Phok could have jumped on any of the counterwagons. Phok had never been on this wagon before, so I think that's a very strong towntell. Implosion's a bit strange, but the post 333 seems to be genuine. (Or at least, I did a similar thing later, on Day1). A moderately strong towntell on him. Chaos' vote would have been an unnecessarry bussing if he were scum. Though, it's possible that he jumped on because he felt that Neil would go down. Still, a mild towntell.
And who jumped off the wagon in 344? Tman!

Shadowez returned to the wagon in 377, L–1 again. Neil claimed Cop in 386, Aneninen and Implosion jumped off next. Both of them are returned later (considering the claim a fake one). The other 4 names – AGar, Phok, Chaos, Shadowez – could have left the wagon after the claim. Another small townread on all of them.
Tman said in 424 – but, at that point his vote would have been the L–1! (He even added in 428 that he would wait for AGar and Shadowez – why?)
MalaKitty's hammer is a null in my eyes: if it hadn't been for her, someone else would have hammered Neil.

Another notice: considering the living players and excluding the RVS, Rack, and Oso weren't ever on the Neil-wagon. Maybe we should examine them later.