Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[TierShift]

Oh and I guess you buddied me so there's that

I did?

Both Witness Protection and Titus keep (purposely?) missing my questions and I'm really mad about that since I don't have a superb read on either.

Talk to me!

[TierShift]

VOTE: Brantz

Why are you giving me towncred for the Tier wagon before he flipped?

Why are you voting brantz?

I'm not super happy about either wagon, really. As in people that are on it. I do have a preference, though.

Sera wagon forms too fast to be scum
Brantz's latest reads are super opportunistic with his flip on me and the vote change due to readslist feels a bit forced (as in 'I don't have a good reason to change votes, but here have a readslist')

[TierShift]

VOTE: brantz
This the wagon yo

[AxleGreaser]

@Axle: Post 4 is your first request for meta information. Then you self meta (in response to a question about it) in 28.

So one is me getting game going when there is nothing else to post about and the other is me answering a question..... So if you have problem witht he topic of the answer you ought be talking to the person that asked it..?

I am not sure what you did in 144 but remember feeling it was meta related, feel free to correct me on this.

WAT.
You linked to it and its a post linking Tier to a filter of this game... where he can find out "I don't even know what it's for!" Its me somewhat sarcastically pointing out that he could solve his problem the obvious way (read the game) instead of stalling.

You request meta from farside again in 202.

yes indeed I did re ask the question that had not been answered when i asked it the first time....
Do you have a problem with that?
It was also relevant to working out what I thought of the dispute between VM and far. Far had made rad based on meta, VM had called bullshit on the read, and far was scum reading back VM for it. various questions arise, was it a fake fight between scum? a TvT , or a caught scum? Only getting up to sped on the meta involved lets you evaluate their various claims.

221 starts your discussion with farside about meta (specifically on Titus). Then 231 more meta talk. 259 is basically just a giant meta argument.

The main point of 221, was an attempt to get clarity on the either or Phrase tight prominently in the middle of the post. What exactly was the read being claimed. *I* dont talk about the meta, I ask which of the two versions of the read is their position.

No that is not what 259 is. It was unclear even up to there whether or not farside was still claiming titus was scum for

I voted for you because you are not typically a Chatty Cathy asking lots of questions.

or whether it had been accepted that VM's experience with Titus negated that read.

I still cant see this

@Axle: Why don't you start playing this game instead of

continually

asking people to give you meta on everything?

AxleGreaser: Axle posts a ton of walls, but seems to focus too much on meta and not enough on what is going on in the game (though this has gotten better in the last few pages).

I am having trouble believing this post comes from you reading the thread and trying to understand it.

I am however getting the vibe you are wrong not pushing an agenda.

post split here.

[AxleGreaser]

some peopel indicate they are wall challenged.

@Thread.

However if deadline rolls up and Brantz and Seraphim are still the only two lynches on offer. I will if given a choice hammer Seraphim.

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: brantz
This the wagon yo

why?

Not why how or where is he bad, wrong, ...

show me scum.

[AxleGreaser]

Sera wagon forms too fast to be scum

How else would it form given the time of day.
And if it forms fast, most of the decisions to make it go are town... exactly why cant it form quickly and what would scum have done about it?

[AxleGreaser]

VOTE: Sera

#Justice

@VM

you missed a question at you here 419

[TierShift]

I don't like how there is the 'maybe we'll vote sera' sentiment but no one actually does it while there's a bigger wagon. The wagon that forms now is huge and rapid and has a few players on it that look like they are reeeaaaallly happy to let go off the leading wagon (brantz), especially brantz himself looks very opportunistic in that regard.

I base my vote solely off his latest readslist, axle. Go reread his stances before the wagons changed and after they changed. They are extremely self-preserving.

[AxleGreaser]

I don't like how there is the 'maybe we'll vote sera' sentiment but no one actually does it while there's a bigger wagon. The wagon that forms now is huge and rapid and has a few players on it that look like they are reeeaaaallly happy to let go off the leading wagon (brantz), especially brantz himself looks very opportunistic in that regard.

I base my vote solely off his latest readslist, axle. Go reread his stances before the wagons changed and after they changed. They are extremely self-preserving.

UNVOTE: Tier

Really self preserving is thing that been in the Brantz, iso for a while.
other than that I need to sleep on it.

[Flubbernugget]

Ok tier can be town for now

[TierShift]

My role pm says town 4eva and eva bby

[farside22]

I fear if Sera gets replaced, we may lose a chance to kill a scum. Remember DP's play in Walrus? I see big similarities.

Different game, different players. But play that looks very much the same.

Realllly curious to know who you are but not enough energy to figure it out.
Yes i remember DP I also think how quiet Sera is even with this wagon. I'm betting money now he is posting elsewhere just fine.

Sera seems like the town counterwagon to BRantz, but don't mind me. Continue the lurker policy lynch.

What ever you say bubble butt.

Tier the wagon isn't fast. 1 day left to deadline and people are pushing at the wagons. I don't like VM's vote but I'm bias towards them in general.

[TierShift]

What do you think of my point on brantz being self-preserving?

[goodmorning]

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:

Votecount 1.17

Seraphim [L-1] - Witness Protection, Elbirn, BRantz, farside22, Belisarius, Valkyrie Mollie

BRantz [L-2] - hi im Yakko, T S O, Flubbernugget, Titus, TierShift
Belisarius [L-6] - Seraphim

Not Voting [1] - AxleGreaser

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-03-11 20:00:00).

Some people are probably V/LA.

[farside22]

What do you think of my point on brantz being self-preserving?

I've seen town and scum both be self preserving.
Do you think Sera is really town here?

[TierShift]

I don't know, lurkers are null.

Major problem is that a sera townflip will tell us absolutely nothing in regards of associative tells. I have not seen any convincing evidence sera is scum other than powerlurking which is a meh tell. I don't want to go into tomorrow with a deadline town wagon. I'd much rather have a more probable scumflip in brantz and a useful day 2 even if he flips town.

Town and scum are self-preserving in different ways. Town don't just flip their read on someone because they aren't the big wagon anymore, scum do. Joining the big wagon is something town do at times, but it's a much more consistent scumtell than lurking.

[Titus]

I fear if Sera gets replaced, we may lose a chance to kill a scum. Remember DP's play in Walrus? I see big similarities.

Different game, different players. But play that looks very much the same.

This post makes me think WP is scum and Sera is town.

Even if Sera was scum, town should want a replacement to get associations from Sera.

Mod: Sera's status please

[Titus]

Oh and I guess you buddied me so there's that

I did?

Both Witness Protection and Titus keep (purposely?) missing my questions and I'm really mad about that since I don't have a superb read on either.

Talk to me!

What did I miss?

[TierShift]

You missed the following

Spoiler:

Tier's 91[/post ] feels very strange. I like Titus' [post]98 in response to it, but Tier realizing that he misunderstood later feels somewhat genuine.

Why is 91 weird?

So far I haz townread on these people.
- WP
- Titus
- Elbirn
- Axle

Probably obvious townreads but I won't lynch any of these folks today.

Why is elbirn town?

Your casual-meta failed you. You want meta, one of my first large games the town basically posted itself to death; it was impossible for them to find any signal in all the noise they created. So yes, I think it was a waste of time, drunk uncle, creating noise which downs out signal and hurting the motivation of some players. I would lean town on you, that doesn't mean I have to think you've been at all helpful.

Was this a game Varsoon was in??? If so, then there you have it. Or are you advocating lurker lynches?

No. Yes.

VOTE: hi im Yakko

I like dddp.

Tier thinks I made a bad post. Refuses to vote me.
Tier has posts denying he has read the thread while selectively responding to content. #91
Tier has provided no content.
Tier has refused to vote me despite being the only player he reacted negatively to.

I sometimes do not vote in RVS. It's pretty much random if I do or don't, I don't really care about it. Why is that scummy?
I hadn't read page 2/page 3 I believe, I did read the lster posts. I didn't have a full picture of the thread at that time and I didn't feel like reading.

While I feel these points are okay for titus to make, I find it weird that up t this very moment, she's voting me. Doesn't sound like a strong read. Comment please, titus.

@far: It isn't vm town reading people that's the problem. It's vm calling them unlynchable on page 5 that bugs me. Also, it's unnecessary for me to talk about town reads? Right... got it.

VOTE: farside

Ewwww

Alright,

@WP: Farside moved up to my top scum read because she accuses me of not saying anything, but then points out specific things I have said (calling my tier read vague, and saying me giving a read on Elbirn is "unnecessary") which is what pinged me the hardest. If his case is really about me not saying much he should want more of my reads not chastise me for giving one. I already addressed his other point against me. But in essence he twists my words to make it so I am saying that vm having town reads is bad, which isn't what I said at all. I will restate, the problem I have with vm saying those 4 people are unlynchable today on page 5, is it seems to me that vm is giving them a complete pass for the rest of the day, and doesn't plan to analyze their play except in a town biased way. This is not a healthy stance to take on page 5 of a game, it will color all of your interaction reading whenever those players are involved. He is also making the assertion that him feeling my posts are awkward means they are scummy, which is just completely awful.

Tier is much weaker of a read, but I agree with what Titus said about him.

I know you asked about my scum reads, but I feel that I should throw in that I think Bel is probably town.

@Yakko: Different game, same dance.

@Far & Yakko: For whatever reason neither of you reads my "confusion" post as the joke I have said it is multiple times. Try it, it might clear up some of your confusions.

This post is interesting and I should read it whenever I have more than an hour to plough through 14 pages.

Titus the little meta you have on me should tell you I'm town. Your failure to see that makes me sad, to say the least. I do not really regard the other players voting me highly, but I'd expect you to evaluate more thoroughly as town.

This game needs a flip

Titus get your ass in here

I agree with your WP sera assessment.

Farside, one major contributor to the fact that I think sera is town is the wagon on him. It is comprised of self-preserving people who are looking for an alternative to the current wagon(s, if you count the dying one on me). I don't like WP's vote, I don't like brantz's vote. I'm not too happy about VM's either, although they might be town. This, coupled with the fact that sera hasn't actually been scummy outside of lurking, leads me to not wanting to vote there.

[BRantz]

Here I thought Tier and Titus might be the first people who had figured out how to read me... ah well.

Tier I posted a reads list because I was asked to a week ago, and finally had a chance to do so. I agree that it isn't a very good reads list (hence me pointing out having too many town reads), but then I don't think anyone will tell you I have played a very masterful game in this one.

[farside22]

Well sera hasn't posted since the 5th, but he was on ms on the 7th.

He for sure has not scum hunted since being here.

I've been reading wp as a strong town read so no clue what is suspect there.

[farside22]

I don't know, lurkers are null.

Major problem is that a sera townflip will tell us absolutely nothing in regards of associative tells. I have not seen any convincing evidence sera is scum other than powerlurking which is a meh tell. I don't want to go into tomorrow with a deadline town wagon. I'd much rather have a more probable scumflip in brantz and a useful day 2 even if he flips town.

Town and scum are self-preserving in different ways. Town don't just flip their read on someone because they aren't the big wagon anymore, scum do. Joining the big wagon is something town do at times, but it's a much more consistent scumtell than lurking.

Also I have seen times scum won't push on wagons. I think it depends on player and experience.
I get this vibe from brantz after I question his ability in playing, there was truth to his statement. I thought about meta checking the guy but I stopped doing meta reads when they starting going to shit. So usually I just go with my gut these days.

[TierShift]

To be honest, I'm not too sure about my brantz read either. Still a tad more likely to flip scum than sera, imo.

[Elbirn]

Oh yeah, GM my VLA ended, sorry I should have mentioned.

Anyhoo.

Seraphim [L-1] - Witness Protection, Elbirn, BRantz, farside22, Belisarius, Valkyrie Mollie
BRantz [L-2] - hi im Yakko, T S O, Flubbernugget, Titus, TierShift

So as of this post that's what the wagons are. Only Seraphim and Axle are off wagon, Seraphim is gone and even if he weren't he'd be on the BRantz wagon as a matter of course. Axle has declared willingness to hammer either I believe.

I'm liking the people on the Seraph wagon a lot more than the people on the BRantz wagon. Tier has gotten some townpoints recently imo, but Yakko and Flubber slots are nearly as bad as Seraph, and I have some misgivings about TSO and Titus. Looking at the Seraph wagon, we've got myself, 3 people I'm leaning town on, 1 scumread, and BRantz himself who I'm still trying to sort and wouldn't mind having dead, but my gut says he isn't scum.

Can you elaborate on what you think of the wagons, Tier? You say the Seraph wagon = self preserving people. How is this true for anyone except for BRantz, who no matter what his alignment is would not be playing to his win condition if he DIDN'T vote for Seraph?