okay so...
isolate this and it looks like towny busy work
Spoiler:
In post 320, Raskolnikov wrote:
Aristophanes is scum though. He reads really fake to me and the one thing which was going for him in my eyes was the depth of the naomi read (59 -> part of 63); usually people thinking that in-depth so early and unnecessarily/unprompted is a huge towntell, though even at that point I was wondering how he took it that far ("It's just a few things like that which make me think "towny." " makes it sound like he has a massive multifaceted read). But looking into aristo meta to he actually does this as scum! mini 1781 micro 627
I see him love to give out townreads in creative ways as scum and in general hand them out like candy almost to a fault; with all of that there's little effort faking scumhunting. You see a few of them are almost ridiculous in context or really stand out for early reads. OTOH in his towngames the townreading is dialed back a LOT and you see a lot more scumhunting focus.
I think what happens is when something strange/confusing happens from a player, while town are actually trying to judge align aristo since he knows it's town can afford to put the effort into explaining exactly why their town and misunderstood. I think the naomi read really is spot on and so insightful and that naomi is town (after her content) but its like aristo could come up with that read so early/confidently he never actually doubted it. This is the kind of read where I'm either a genius and he panics in scum pt or I'm a total idiot for reading this deep into ~5 posts but I'll go with the former. Along with naomi read the tone kind of bothers me (57, 69) and I think the timing is he got lazy at the traditional point where scum realize they have to start faking doing something useful (in a town position having that early townread is a big help though) but these are more minor.
Though this is kind of awkward because even though aristos probably scum (and dbg is still a promising lead) the inactivity still makes it feel like a big waste doing this, like I almost feel bad(selfish?) doing my own thing compared to everyone else. But I don't really scumread the actives (some NULLs but eh.). TBH I think 2016 lurker-lenient meta helps scum to the point where if they strategized to they could intentionally just lurk and get out the d1 lynchpool, town lynch scummiest active town, they come back day 2 active and nobody cares. Nowadays I see people so against that kind of lynch + I think there's a natural tendency to just sort what you see in front of you so null in a pool of 5 will still be top scumread. 2 of my games 2 scum players were just afk and prodded and people were literally forced to lynch scummiest looking town and it's like okay I think I understand why they used to policy lynch them in old games. But anyways! VOTE: Aristo
put it back in the thread and look at the context and what the gamestate was like at the time rask made this post...we're talking about only 3 irl days into the game. it. feels. off. i've been in a game before where the same scumari meta bullet points were brought up against him(by a player who was once in a scum team together with him or sth in a past game), maybe it's because im comparing the two gamestates that i notice how off rask's post is? gamestate here was: barely out of rvs, most people had no appreciable reads, half the playerlist lurking, and the ones posting werent really posting much content. rask's post is the kind of post i expect when more than half the playerlist have more solid lists and people eventually get to ari or other lurkers and pressure them for more content or put them as scum by elimination.
timing of the post feels way too early for a meta dive this busy...i'd even argue this is a counter intuitive thing to do considering how early this analysis was, because it makes ari more self aware to how he's being perceived and renders the whole point of your post moot.
second is...i really dont see how he gave that townread to naomi too easily? his read on her felt organic and looked genuine to me. i also liked his comment on rem.
ari so far feels town to me. mostly tonal read and i like the early content he provided
In post 116, Raskolnikov wrote:I think 1-2 scum are likely in the inactives at this point
This is a very weird post considering it was page five and barely anything noteworthy had happened, and lurking had yet to become a thing
are pinge-y stuff to me
also there's a 3rd point i want to bring up but it's slightly tinfoily so i'll keep it to later if i still think it stands
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:42 am
by Naomi-Tan
In post 451, kraska77 wrote:okay so...
isolate this and it looks like towny busy work
Spoiler:
In post 320, Raskolnikov wrote:
Aristophanes is scum though. He reads really fake to me and the one thing which was going for him in my eyes was the depth of the naomi read (59 -> part of 63); usually people thinking that in-depth so early and unnecessarily/unprompted is a huge towntell, though even at that point I was wondering how he took it that far ("It's just a few things like that which make me think "towny." " makes it sound like he has a massive multifaceted read). But looking into aristo meta to he actually does this as scum! mini 1781 micro 627
I see him love to give out townreads in creative ways as scum and in general hand them out like candy almost to a fault; with all of that there's little effort faking scumhunting. You see a few of them are almost ridiculous in context or really stand out for early reads. OTOH in his towngames the townreading is dialed back a LOT and you see a lot more scumhunting focus.
I think what happens is when something strange/confusing happens from a player, while town are actually trying to judge align aristo since he knows it's town can afford to put the effort into explaining exactly why their town and misunderstood. I think the naomi read really is spot on and so insightful and that naomi is town (after her content) but its like aristo could come up with that read so early/confidently he never actually doubted it. This is the kind of read where I'm either a genius and he panics in scum pt or I'm a total idiot for reading this deep into ~5 posts but I'll go with the former. Along with naomi read the tone kind of bothers me (57, 69) and I think the timing is he got lazy at the traditional point where scum realize they have to start faking doing something useful (in a town position having that early townread is a big help though) but these are more minor.
Though this is kind of awkward because even though aristos probably scum (and dbg is still a promising lead) the inactivity still makes it feel like a big waste doing this, like I almost feel bad(selfish?) doing my own thing compared to everyone else. But I don't really scumread the actives (some NULLs but eh.). TBH I think 2016 lurker-lenient meta helps scum to the point where if they strategized to they could intentionally just lurk and get out the d1 lynchpool, town lynch scummiest active town, they come back day 2 active and nobody cares. Nowadays I see people so against that kind of lynch + I think there's a natural tendency to just sort what you see in front of you so null in a pool of 5 will still be top scumread. 2 of my games 2 scum players were just afk and prodded and people were literally forced to lynch scummiest looking town and it's like okay I think I understand why they used to policy lynch them in old games. But anyways! VOTE: Aristo
put it back in the thread and look at the context and what the gamestate was like at the time rask made this post...we're talking about only 3 irl days into the game. it. feels. off. i've been in a game before where the same scumari meta bullet points were brought up against him(by a player who was once in a scum team together with him or sth in a past game), maybe it's because im comparing the two gamestates that i notice how off rask's post is? gamestate here was: barely out of rvs, most people had no appreciable reads, half the playerlist lurking, and the ones posting werent really posting much content. rask's post is the kind of post i expect when more than half the playerlist have more solid lists and people eventually get to ari or other lurkers and pressure them for more content or put them as scum by elimination.
timing of the post feels way too early for a meta dive this busy...i'd even argue this is a counter intuitive thing to do considering how early this analysis was, because it makes ari more self aware to how he's being perceived and renders the whole point of your post moot.
second is...i really dont see how he gave that townread to naomi too easily? his read on her felt organic and looked genuine to me. i also liked his comment on rem.
ari so far feels town to me. mostly tonal read and i like the early content he provided
In post 451, kraska77 wrote:okay so...
isolate this and it looks like towny busy work
Spoiler:
In post 320, Raskolnikov wrote:
Aristophanes is scum though. He reads really fake to me and the one thing which was going for him in my eyes was the depth of the naomi read (59 -> part of 63); usually people thinking that in-depth so early and unnecessarily/unprompted is a huge towntell, though even at that point I was wondering how he took it that far ("It's just a few things like that which make me think "towny." " makes it sound like he has a massive multifaceted read). But looking into aristo meta to he actually does this as scum! mini 1781 micro 627
I see him love to give out townreads in creative ways as scum and in general hand them out like candy almost to a fault; with all of that there's little effort faking scumhunting. You see a few of them are almost ridiculous in context or really stand out for early reads. OTOH in his towngames the townreading is dialed back a LOT and you see a lot more scumhunting focus.
I think what happens is when something strange/confusing happens from a player, while town are actually trying to judge align aristo since he knows it's town can afford to put the effort into explaining exactly why their town and misunderstood. I think the naomi read really is spot on and so insightful and that naomi is town (after her content) but its like aristo could come up with that read so early/confidently he never actually doubted it. This is the kind of read where I'm either a genius and he panics in scum pt or I'm a total idiot for reading this deep into ~5 posts but I'll go with the former. Along with naomi read the tone kind of bothers me (57, 69) and I think the timing is he got lazy at the traditional point where scum realize they have to start faking doing something useful (in a town position having that early townread is a big help though) but these are more minor.
Though this is kind of awkward because even though aristos probably scum (and dbg is still a promising lead) the inactivity still makes it feel like a big waste doing this, like I almost feel bad(selfish?) doing my own thing compared to everyone else. But I don't really scumread the actives (some NULLs but eh.). TBH I think 2016 lurker-lenient meta helps scum to the point where if they strategized to they could intentionally just lurk and get out the d1 lynchpool, town lynch scummiest active town, they come back day 2 active and nobody cares. Nowadays I see people so against that kind of lynch + I think there's a natural tendency to just sort what you see in front of you so null in a pool of 5 will still be top scumread. 2 of my games 2 scum players were just afk and prodded and people were literally forced to lynch scummiest looking town and it's like okay I think I understand why they used to policy lynch them in old games. But anyways! VOTE: Aristo
put it back in the thread and look at the context and what the gamestate was like at the time rask made this post...we're talking about only 3 irl days into the game. it. feels. off. i've been in a game before where the same scumari meta bullet points were brought up against him(by a player who was once in a scum team together with him or sth in a past game), maybe it's because im comparing the two gamestates that i notice how off rask's post is? gamestate here was: barely out of rvs, most people had no appreciable reads, half the playerlist lurking, and the ones posting werent really posting much content. rask's post is the kind of post i expect when more than half the playerlist have more solid lists and people eventually get to ari or other lurkers and pressure them for more content or put them as scum by elimination.
timing of the post feels way too early for a meta dive this busy...i'd even argue this is a counter intuitive thing to do considering how early this analysis was, because it makes ari more self aware to how he's being perceived and renders the whole point of your post moot.
second is...i really dont see how he gave that townread to naomi too easily? his read on her felt organic and looked genuine to me. i also liked his comment on rem.
ari so far feels town to me. mostly tonal read and i like the early content he provided
His lurking, his excuses, and his kraska vote are baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
I could switch to IPS if it comes to that.
Your siggy is wrong.
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:10 pm
by LicketyQuickety
I'm not sure how I feel about rb saying I am lynchbait now that I think about it. I mean, I use to be lynchbait, that much is absolutely certain. But I have in fact either changed my game, or people actually have a clue how to read me now. It gives me really bad feels that rb was so quick to think that is the case. He is assuming things about my game in best case. I throw a lot of theory out at rb in our last game we played together off site, so it only makes logical sense for him to put it together that I might just not be the lynch bait I use to be because I also gave several references to my experience in that game and in the Scum chat. I'm not sure I buy that he actually thinks I am lynchbait because I know rb to be a pretty bright guy and I guess I just give him credit for putting two and two together. He might be new, but he is a quick learner as said for the reason for why he was made the mod for mafia on INTPf. The short story is that he is buddying me, something I have never seen him do in a game and I think he prolly learned to do somewhere along the way. Also, there's the whole fake slip business which I'm not sure why people aren't reading him Scum for that. Its based on a reaction that is pretty easy to fake as Scum, namely, just saying "Yup, I did it on purpose." Ofc this hinges on assuming a fake slip is something he would do as Scum and I don't actually have a rock solid case for that.
. . . Wut? You. . . am I. . . Please Explain This Line. . . I Dunno how To react until I confirm what this is.
rb and I were both Scum in our last game played together off site.
I also talked some about my experience in the game thread as well.
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:58 pm
by rb
In post 465, LicketyQuickety wrote:I'm not sure how I feel about rb saying I am lynchbait now that I think about it. I mean, I use to be lynchbait, that much is absolutely certain. But I have in fact either changed my game, or people actually have a clue how to read me now. It gives me really bad feels that rb was so quick to think that is the case. He is assuming things about my game in best case. I throw a lot of theory out at rb in our last game we played together off site, so it only makes logical sense for him to put it together that I might just not be the lynch bait I use to be because I also gave several references to my experience in that game and in the Scum chat. I'm not sure I buy that he actually thinks I am lynchbait because I know rb to be a pretty bright guy and I guess I just give him credit for putting two and two together. He might be new, but he is a quick learner as said for the reason for why he was made the mod for mafia on INTPf. The short story is that he is buddying me, something I have never seen him do in a game and I think he prolly learned to do somewhere along the way. Also, there's the whole fake slip business which I'm not sure why people aren't reading him Scum for that. Its based on a reaction that is pretty easy to fake as Scum, namely, just saying "Yup, I did it on purpose." Ofc this hinges on assuming a fake slip is something he would do as Scum and I don't actually have a rock solid case for that.
VOTE: rb
Oh my god for fuck's sake can you stop just using meta it's so fucking terrible stop being terrible.
Yeah okay dude I'm buddying you when I explicitly said I scumread you. Sick detective work bro.
. . . Wut? You. . . am I. . . Please Explain This Line. . . I Dunno how To react until I confirm what this is.
rb and I were both Scum in our last game played together off site.
You mean a joke 9-player game with a 6:3 split, including a Dayvig, Cop and Doctor, plus where everyone could talk via PM/off-site/skype/wherever they wanted - where I didn't even bother reading the setup/rules and was just playing for shits and giggles.
Sick meta-read LQ.
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:00 pm
by rb
Also:
@kraska77 - why is your vote on me when you think I'm town?
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:01 pm
by rb
Like you said you think IPS is scum and you think I'm town but you're voting me and not IPS.
. . . Wut? You. . . am I. . . Please Explain This Line. . . I Dunno how To react until I confirm what this is.
rb and I were both Scum in our last game played together off site.
Okay thanks for clearing that up. I was literally shocked like; did you just admit that your scum.... like as a null reader, that could of swang badly, make sure you establish context unless i'm miss reading it and being dumb. but okay thanks for clearing that up.
and it looks like towny busy work
combined with this 
unless i'm miss reading it and being dumb. but okay thanks for clearing that up.